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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Intro from Montana: '73 2.0L rustoration thread

Posted by: bbrock Mar 27 2017, 05:11 PM

My name is Brent and I’m new to 914 World but certainly not to 914s. My 1973 2.0L has being lying dormant and neglected for over thirty years now and is long overdue for a resurrection. The path to where I am now has been a long one so forgive me for the long introduction, but some of you might be able to relate.

History

I wasn’t much of a car guy as a kid growing up in NE Kansas. I liked cars, but I didn’t LOVE them. But when I saw my first 914, it spoke to me in a way that no other car had before… or since. My first ride in a teener didn’t come until my senior year in high school when a co-worker took me for a spin in a 914 he had borrowed from his dad’s used import car dealership. The car did not disappoint and I was hooked! I knew I had to have one.

The year was 1981. I was 19 and beginning my second year of college at Kansas State when I took out a small loan to buy my first car. I found a barely road-worthy 1970 1.7L in Missouri for $2,300 and was beaming with pride when I rolled up to the college dorm with my new, but rather shoddy looking, prize. But being as I was 19, and that organ that would eventually become a brain was not yet developed, I managed to shove the nose of my new Porsche under the tail end of a pickup truck at an intersection the very next day. Devastated; I had the car towed to a little one-man body shop at the edge of town. The front left corner was toast. I had enough money left from my loan to buy a partial front clip from AA. I got a call from the body shop the day the clip arrived and was told there was a problem. I went to inspect and saw that AA had sent a wrecked clip. The fender was smashed and the cost to hammer out the panels was 3X the cost of the part. I got in a heated argument over the phone with AA when I was told that sort of condition should be expected with used parts. What a bunch of BS! Surface rust and a few dings is one thing, but this part has been smacked hard enough the turn signal opening was half the width it should have been. Pointing out that their own advertising promised used parts would be collision free got me nowhere. In the end, I had to pay return freight and a restocking fee to get rid of the shitty part. That was the first and ONLY time I’ve done business with AA and I’m still pissed 36 years later. Luckily, a 914 had arrived at a junk yard 60 miles away and I picked up the parts, minus the lid, for a fraction of what AA had charged and hauled it myself.

But my woes of fixing my 914 were far from over. The body shop guy told me he found a trunk lid and that if I prepaid for parts and labor, he could put my car back together, shot with primer, for $400. Like an idiot, I believed him. I took out another small loan and wrote him a check. Every time I stopped by to check out the progress, there was a different excuse. The lid was at another shop getting MIG welded to repair minor rust… things like that. Then the guy just disappeared. I spent a few weeks stopping by almost daily to find an empty shop. Finally, one day a crusty looking old guy was there. “Are you looking for Joe?”, he asked. “Join the club.” Joe had been bilking lots of people out of money and had skipped out of the country. The guy telling me this had recently entered partnership with Joe and had lost thousands of dollars. We would both shortly receive a bankruptcy letter listing us as creditors and leaving us with little recourse to recoup our losses. It was my first hard lesson in trust. The silver lining was that the new guy had another shop and took pity on me and completed the work that was promised at a very reasonable price. I know he lost money on the deal.

My now patchwork-colored teener was back on the road but I wasn’t any smarter at 20 than I was at 19 so my car would again suffer the consequences. It was a cold, snowy, Kansas winter when I was home at my parents for Christmas holiday. I had learned from experience that if I put the 914 to bed in that weather without adding a bottle of drying agent to the gas, she was not going to start. But I wasn’t alone and shop after shop was sold out of HEET. On the fifth stop, I finally found a few bottles and was heading home to my parents when I hit a patch of black ice at low speed on possibly illegal balding tires and wrapped the front neatly around a fire hydrant. Well shit! Here we go again. I was done with body shops and con-men so decided it was time to learn to weld. I found donor parts at the same junk yard as before and set about cutting out the damage and replacing using my brother’s oxy-acetylene torch. Amazingly, I managed to get the car back together in drivable condition. I won’t pretend it was a good repair job, but adequate. I learned a lot about working on 914s because just about every week, something new broke – clutch, torsion bar, struts, and the constant battle with bad wiring in the FI and ignition. I’m sure there is a part on a 914 I haven’t removed and replaced, but I can’t think of what that would be.


About a year later, my then girlfriend and now wife of 30+ years needed to replace her aging Honda and a nice looking 914 appeared for sale. It was a ’73 1.7L and looked much prettier than mine. We shouldn’t have bought it because it had been wrecked and not put back together right. It had a barely detectable sideways crab as it rolled down the road that a 4-wheel alignment couldn’t fix. But it made a good daily driver and was nice enough that when Elizabeth and I were married, her cousin hid the car for us so my original patchwork 70 got the traditional “Just Married” treatment.

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Around that time in 1984, I spied an ad in the college paper for a 914 for $500. Always needing parts, I thought this was my chance to get a big pile of parts at a bargain price. After talking with the owner, I discovered this was a 1973 2.0L. (my dream model and year). It had suffered the dreaded hell hole and the RR suspension console was dangling free. The PO (who may have been the original owner) couldn’t get a shop to even quote her a price on fixing it, and I was welcome to go have a look. I found the car in a parking lot next to the local import car parts shop. I couldn’t believe what I saw. Not only was it my dream ’73 2.0, but it was metallic silver with 4-spoke Fuchs, center console but not appearance group (black bumpers and no targa vinyl. This is exactly the car I would have ordered at the dealership. I knew that the wheels alone were worth the asking price. From 30 ft., the car looked gorgeous. From 10 feet, it looked really good but you could see it had been repainted, and not well. The interior was complete and clean. The only thing wrong with this car was a rotten battery tray and suspension console. And even that rot was limited and hadn’t spread to other bits of the hell hole. I finagled another small loan and didn’t quibble on the price. THIS would be my car.

Back at the junkyard I found a console from the same donor I had taken the front for my 70 from. I spent a weekend in my parent’s garage welding it in and spent the next several years enjoying the hell out of that car. In the meantime, I rebuilt the engine on the old 70 to donate it to a VW bus and sold the chassis for parts. My wife’s ’73 became my project car and I earned my label as a DAPO botching an outer long replacement by overheating the weld and using poorly placed door bracing. The result was an increase in the sideways crab and a passenger door that didn’t close as cleanly as it should. I continued my assault on the car by stripping it down to respray in black lacquer – a purposeful choice to reveal all of the flaws. It was a lot of work and there were many goofs to be redone, but the end result was actually quite stunning. It didn’t last long though since I didn’t have a garage at the time and black lacquer is no match for the Kansas sun. But it did convince me that I could prep and spray a car with respectable results; better than the job on my 2.0L anyway.

I don’t remember the exact catalyst that caused me to tear it apart, but as much as I loved driving the 2.0L, it didn’t always love me and I was frequently stranded – and this was pre-cell phone days. The problem was almost always some damn thing with the FI. Plus, the car was leak oil badly and there were rust issues that needed repair. I convince myself it was time for a complete teardown and rebuild and I commenced to do just that. I was in my mid-twenties and Reagan was President.

Restoration Begins… and Stops… and Stops Again

I made a rookie mistake and started with the engine. I did a complete teardown and had all the bottom end parts machined and balanced at the local machine shop. Although I am kind of regretting it now, I decided to ditch the D-Jet that caused 95% of my reliability woes and opted for dual 40IDF Webers. Carb conversions were all the rage back then and I had lost patience with the FI. If I were to start this today, I’d probably keep the FI which I still have in storage. But to complement the carbs, I installed a “street grind” cam from Automotion. I’ve tossed my old Automotion catalogs and there are no other specs on the invoice. I only remember that the folks there recommended this grind to get the most from my carbs while staying close to the performance of the FI. The other mod I chose for the engine was a new set of OEM euro spec (8.0:1) Mahle pistons and jugs. I’ve always had this crazy idea that the euro spec cars were how Porsche intended and American spec was a compromise. As part of that rebuild, I stripped and repainted all of the tin with high temp paint and replaced the little hardware. Heads had not yet been touched, and Reagan was still the President.

Then life intervened. Elizabeth had put her college on hold while I finished mine, and it was while she was finishing her degree that I tore the car apart. Then it was my turn to go back for a graduate degree so the project went on hold. Time was in short supply. Clinton was President by the time I got my grad degree. Now neither time or money were as much of an obstacle, but having adequate shop space for the restoration was. All I had was an open carport that was not up to the task although I was able to turn it briefly into a makeshift plastic spray booth for the last car which we had since given to our nephew (kicking myself now). So, Elizabeth and I set about building a two-story barn with plenty of space for a large woodshop, mechanics shop, and spray booth. When I say build, I mean we picked up hammer and nails and built the thing. I must say; the thing was a work of beauty. All that was left was to install windows and then my restoration project could resume in earnest. And then I got offered a job in Bozeman, Montana which had been a long-time dream for this wildlife biologist. So without so much as ever rolling a car into the new shop, we packed up and headed to the mountains. That was 13 years ago and I’ve gotten a lot of grief for hauling my little project 1,200 miles across the continent. And she has weathered through many Montana blizzards sitting neglected in my driveway; waiting for me to come to my senses.

And Now…

Maybe I am having my mid-life crisis but the itch to get this car back on the road had gotten too strong to ignore. Over the years, I would periodically cruise the Web for 914 news, but would quickly put it aside with the resignation that I’m back where I was with no good space to work on the car. But then I read Darren Collins’ amazing odyssey on this forum. Not only is it inspirational, but it also gave me an epiphany. The bulk of the work in a restoration is in cleaning and refurbishing small parts. I don’t need a big-ass shop for that. In fact, we do have a 2-car garage but half of it is filled to the gills with woodworking tools and the other half has to remain open for the daily driver so we don’t have to scoop and scrape several inches of snow off every morning, and to protect the car at least a little from the horde of deer mice that plague every vehicle parked outdoors in the mountains. But I have a plan. I purchased a set of 10” pneumatic castors at HF and will build a rotisserie on them. That will allow me to roll my chassis over my gravel driveway and in and out of the garage as needed. That will still leave the challenge when it comes time to paint (I don’t have the means to farm out a $10K paint job). But it will get me through strip, patch, and primer. We have planned on building a detached garage since we built our house. Maybe I’ll figure out how to fund it.

Determined to make progress, it was time to take stock of what I have ahead of me. The car had been mostly stripped prior to our move, but many of the parts that had been carefully stored in sheds wound up strewn haphazardly in the trunks and cockpit during and after the move. The old pitted windshield had been removed long ago and donated to the other car. The plexi I had installed to seal out the rain had cracked to shards and only the tarp over the car kept out rain and snow. The old tires turned to dust years ago, leaving the belly of the car only a few inches above the damp earth. Not the treatment I intended to give my car but it is what it is. I was prepared for the worst last week when I began excavating to survey the damage of years of neglect. The car wreaked of weasel piss and I actually found a weasel skull in the front trunk. But that weasel piss probably accounts for the surprisingly low amount of rodent nests found in the car. Considering the abuse, things could be worse.

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Thirty years ago, I had all kinds of plans to modernize this car. But history gains importance as we age so now I want to keep it mostly stock. That’s also the easier and cheaper route given that the car is disassembled, but nearly complete. My rule for mods is to do nothing that can’t easily be reversed to original stock. The biggest sacrifice is that I won’t be blanking out the side markers as originally planned even though I really hate them.
Mods planned are:
Engine: These have already been done. Otherwise I might rethink them.

ChassisWorkplan
  1. Stabilize engine – It has been stored in an unheated shed. Checked on it last week and was horrified to find the pistons stuck. Luckily a half hour soak of the pistons with PB blaster and some light taps with a softwood drift freed them up. Cylinders had a little rust crust at the bottom where the rings were sitting. I pulled the worst looking cylinder. Rings look fine. A few seconds with a hone and the bore was shiny like new again. Will do the same with the remaining cylinders and will refresh the assembly lube on cam lobes and lifters. I have a 3-arm engine yoke from VW Alley arriving Wednesday and will move the engine into my heated garage where I can keep a better eye on it. Once inside, I’ll clean it off and brush the case with tectyl, spray Stabil engine fog on the piston tops and cylinder bores, and bag it. I’ll turn the crank once a month to make sure it doesn’t seize again. Open to suggestions on how to protect it until it is ready to go back in the car. I’ll probably go ahead and get the heads rebuilt sooner rather than later so I can get the engine completely assemble and not have a bunch of loose parts laying around.
  2. Build a rotisserie and start on rustoration. Here’s what I know I need to do:
    1. Replace front trunk tub.
    2. Repair rear trunk lid.
    3. Repair both door sills.
    4. Repair lower sail panels.
    5. Repair or replace RH engine tray in hell hole.
    6. Replace RH outer long. Won’t know about inner until outer is cut off.
    7. Misc body sheet metal patches, mostly lower edges.
  3. Inventory and clean parts. I’ll develop a plan of attack after I have a better idea what I’m dealing with. But this will keep me busy for a while.
Thanks for reading.

Posted by: RAX 914 Mar 27 2017, 05:56 PM

Great intro, good luck with your project!

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 27 2017, 06:33 PM

welcome.png Be sure to post lots of pics during the Rustoration. The 2 stage is more forgiving but I certainly wouldn't say it's more durable than single stage. Just the opposite, IMHO. This little project should keep you busy for a couple of years. Enjoy! beerchug.gif

Posted by: sb914 Mar 27 2017, 06:51 PM

Friggin AA beer3.gif

Posted by: jmitro Mar 27 2017, 06:57 PM

cool story! Good luck.
You have a lot of work ahead of you, but it will be worth it. You have many sentimental memories with the car so it will be worth every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears

Posted by: bbrock Mar 27 2017, 08:22 PM

Thanks all.

Good point on 2-stage paint, I think I should have said lower maintenance rather than more durable. That may not be accurate either, but it seems with cars I've had with clear coat, I get better shine with less waxing. Plenty of time to change my mind before paint time comes.

What is the record for the oldest incident being screwed by AA? I can't be too far off, right? blink.gif

And yes, many sentimental memories. It seems weird that I only spent about 5 years driving a 914 out of more than 30 years owning at least one. But they were very important years... first car, first wife (and so far, the only wife), first dog, first house, first real job... I guess I've always driven the teener in my mind.

Posted by: mtn flyr Mar 27 2017, 08:36 PM

Wow, quite an intro! I am in Bozeman, is your car up Timberline Creek?
welcome.png

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 27 2017, 08:45 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 27 2017, 06:22 PM) *

Thanks all.

Good point on 2-stage paint, I think I should have said lower maintenance rather than more durable. That may not be accurate either, but it seems with cars I've had with clear coat, I get better shine with less waxing. Plenty of time to change my mind before paint time comes.

What is the record for the oldest incident being screwed by AA? I can't be too far off, right? blink.gif

And yes, many sentimental memories. It seems weird that I only spent about 5 years driving a 914 out of more than 30 years owning at least one. But they were very important years... first car, first wife (and so far, the only wife), first dog, first house, first real job... I guess I've always driven the teener in my mind.

Growing up in Atlanta I can tell you AA was not well liked.

---Adam

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 27 2017, 08:49 PM

It isn't often that we don't have to tell the new guy about AA! LOL! Good luck with the project! Oh, and your wife deserves a medal for letting you keep those cars around for decades... evilgrin.gif

Good luck with the projects!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 27 2017, 09:07 PM

welcome.png Great intro; loved the whole story. Laughed at the AA screwing you took (sorry)- I guess that mold was cast long ago and they have never (apparently) changed.

Your project seems reasonable. Personally, I would leave the engine be for right now and tackle the chassis rust and once that is whipped into shape deal with the motor. Regardless, it looks like a fun project. Best of luck. beerchug.gif

Posted by: PanelBilly Mar 27 2017, 09:50 PM

You have a lot of work ahead of you. All the parts can be found and there's plenty of free advice to be had. Be careful to pay attention to the alignment of the body as you start welding parts back on. I'd also contact Restoration design and see if they'd give you a discount for volume

Posted by: mark04usa Mar 27 2017, 10:26 PM

welcome.png Enjoyed your 914 story very much. I sure can relate to your experience with the car. Mine has been down for a year or two at a time during several periods over the 41 years I've owned it, and every time I get it back on the road, the car reminds me why I've kept her so long. You'll have miles of smiles when you drive yours again!

Posted by: bbrock Mar 27 2017, 10:51 PM

QUOTE(mtn flyr @ Mar 27 2017, 08:36 PM) *

Wow, quite an intro! I am in Bozeman, is your car up Timberline Creek?
welcome.png


Yes! How did you know?

Posted by: bbrock Mar 27 2017, 11:00 PM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Mar 27 2017, 09:07 PM) *

Your project seems reasonable. Personally, I would leave the engine be for right now and tackle the chassis rust and once that is whipped into shape deal with the motor. Regardless, it looks like a fun project. Best of luck. beerchug.gif


That is the plan except that I need to get it into better storage to protect the investment I already have in it. I just set up an HF engine stand in the garage tonight and should have it mounted, protected, and bagged by the weekend. I go back and forth over whether it would be better to store it with heads and carbs bolted on or just stuff the jugs with rags. But at least with it in the garage instead of in a shed on the back 40, I can keep a better eye on it.

Posted by: Frankvw Mar 28 2017, 12:44 AM

Nice story. It will be a lot of work, but since you have this car for such a long time, your emotional side talked to your rational side and that will give you the extra push you will need at certain moments. Good luck with all the work, looking forward to see the pictures and updates !

Posted by: JawjaPorsche Mar 28 2017, 04:02 AM

Such an amazing story. A story of life. Thanks for sharing.

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Posted by: RobW Mar 28 2017, 04:47 AM

welcome.png

Get a move on! You have a dream to fulfill!

Posted by: cary Mar 28 2017, 08:10 AM

I'd start with digging into the RH long first, no need for a rotisserie for that. You need to get it off the ground and perfectly level. You need to get in there and get a better understanding of what your up against. My .02c.
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Here's what I did before I bought a frame bench.
We built a jig that attached to the front and rear suspension to keep the ends from drooping when you cut into the long. Plus you'll need door braces. I'd start with ones that allow you to keep the doors on.
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I'd do a WTB on the rear trunk lid. If you did roll and weld in a patch. You'd be forever getting the metal leveled up. That is about the softest spot on the car. Once again, my .02c.

If I was still in Montana I'd have loved to come for a weekend and give a hand.
Good Luck ..................... sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif



Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 28 2017, 08:32 AM

Great story and kudos for hanging on to that car. You've got an ambitious project but you've found the right place for advice, support and resources.

BTW, since you're only going to keep it kinda stock, I'd get rid of the warts. They were just there for USDOT regs and not what Porsche intended for the car. 914s delivered in the rest of the world didn't have them. You'll be very glad you deleted those ugly things.

Posted by: Mikey914 Mar 28 2017, 08:38 AM

Welcome. You will have many questions posting up progress and what's holding you up will benefit you and others in the future. You can look at similar threads here as many have done project simular.
Restoration design will be a very good contact for you to have. The package will save you money. Assess your damage and make your list, it will be well worth it when you are done. welcome.png

Posted by: mtn flyr Mar 28 2017, 08:44 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 27 2017, 08:51 PM) *

QUOTE(mtn flyr @ Mar 27 2017, 08:36 PM) *

Wow, quite an intro! I am in Bozeman, is your car up Timberline Creek?
welcome.png


Yes! How did you know?



I have done excavation work up there and noticed your 914 as I drove by.

Posted by: cary Mar 28 2017, 01:56 PM

I hope I didn't come off too abrupt. welcome.png

Your going to have great journey. Take lots of pictures. Dont be a dumbass like me, once a month rename the pictures so you can search them at a later date. Bag everything in freezer type bags. I label the bags with blue tape.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 28 2017, 03:50 PM

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 28 2017, 01:56 PM) *

I hope I didn't come off too abrupt. welcome.png


Not at all! I appreciate the advice. You have me rethinking my sequence as I was going to save the long for last to get the rest of the car as sound as possible first. But it does make sense to hit it first. As I mentioned in my long story, I learned what NOT to do the last time I replaced a long. But my welding skills and patience have improved greatly since then. Do you have details on those braces that work with the door on? What is the lower end mounted to? And do they have turnbuckles built in?

I've gone back and forth over whether to start with a rotisserie or build a jig similar to what you did. I see the wisdom in the jig. My challenge is that I can't occupy our one open garage bay with the car more than a weekend or 3 days at a time. So I need to be able to roll it in and out onto the gravel driveway. But now I'm thinking I can build that jig on my castors. Put it on stands when in the garage working on it. Then re-purpose the steel for a rotisserie later. Truth be told, I could probably do this without a rotisserie. But I'd like to flip her up to make sure the belly is done right. Plus they look pretty fun. But for now, I think that jig is making more sense to get here solid and straight.

Good tips on organizing too. I already have a mess on my hands. Parts were semi-organized before the move to Montana. Not so much now. And it's amazing how much you forget over 30 years! confused24.gif



Posted by: bbrock Mar 28 2017, 04:00 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Mar 28 2017, 08:32 AM) *

BTW, since you're only going to keep it kinda stock, I'd get rid of the warts. They were just there for USDOT regs and not what Porsche intended for the car. 914s delivered in the rest of the world didn't have them. You'll be very glad you deleted those ugly things.


$#@$ you! ar15.gif I hate those warts and deleted them on the last car I painted. I had decided on this one to draw the line at anything that would require cutting or welding to restore to original. But I really do hate those ugly things. Worse, one of my lenses broke, so I would have to spend $ on a part that I hate. On the last car, I also welded and leaded the fender to cowl joint ala the 916 but frankly, didn't think it added much to the appearance so won't be doing that again. IIRC, the Italian cars also had warts, but with clear lenses. Is that correct?

Posted by: 914_teener Mar 28 2017, 07:32 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 28 2017, 02:50 PM) *

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 28 2017, 01:56 PM) *

I hope I didn't come off too abrupt. welcome.png


Not at all! I appreciate the advice. You have me rethinking my sequence as I was going to save the long for last to get the rest of the car as sound as possible first. But it does make sense to hit it first. As I mentioned in my long story, I learned what NOT to do the last time I replaced a long. But my welding skills and patience have improved greatly since then. Do you have details on those braces that work with the door on? What is the lower end mounted to? And do they have turnbuckles built in?

I've gone back and forth over whether to start with a rotisserie or build a jig similar to what you did. I see the wisdom in the jig. My challenge is that I can't occupy our one open garage bay with the car more than a weekend or 3 days at a time. So I need to be able to roll it in and out onto the gravel driveway. But now I'm thinking I can build that jig on my castors. Put it on stands when in the garage working on it. Then re-purpose the steel for a rotisserie later. Truth be told, I could probably do this without a rotisserie. But I'd like to flip her up to make sure the belly is done right. Plus they look pretty fun. But for now, I think that jig is making more sense to get here solid and straight.

Good tips on organizing too. I already have a mess on my hands. Parts were semi-organized before the move to Montana. Not so much now. And it's amazing how much you forget over 30 years! confused24.gif



Take the tub to Cary for the tub resto.....do the small stuff yourself.

Then drive it.

Posted by: cary Mar 28 2017, 07:57 PM

Hmmm. The in and out deal really won't work for the long work. You'd be spending more time setting up and re-leveling ............. I'd set the car up outside in a portable awning for working on it this summer. It's light till 11 pm.

The rotisserie won't roll on the gravel worth a damn. You'll need some sheets of plywood to roll it on.

I'll dig around for some door brace pictures. From 25,000 ft. The top is anchored to the upper seat belt bolt. The bottom, I weld a big nut to the side wall.

Posted by: cary Mar 28 2017, 07:59 PM

By chance is Kelly Seevers one of your neighbors? He lives up one of those canyons. Old friend from Albertsons.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 28 2017, 11:10 PM

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 28 2017, 07:59 PM) *

By chance is Kelly Seevers one of your neighbors? He lives up one of those canyons. Old friend from Albertsons.


Amazing! Yes he is. Just around the bend. I don't really know him, but neighbors speak highly of the whole family. They are tucked up in "the holler" on Goes Nowhere Road which is aptly named. You'd probably be able to see their house in some of the photos I posted if you cut down the trees.

The roller problem is the whole reason I've put this off for so long. Winds can be wicked in this canyon so awnings would have to be built hell for stout. And my MIG is worthless outside because it is rarely calm enough not to blow the shielding gas away. I picked up a set of http://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-pneumatic-heavy-duty-caster-61450.html at HF to handle rolling on gravel. Snooping the Web, it seems others have made these work. I will know soon enough as I plan to pick up tubing for the jig this week. I can leave the car in the garage for the time it takes to complete the long work. I think the rest can go in and out as needed. Worst case, I may have to throw up a temporary shed around he car in the drive. But I'll try this first. Ideally I would wait on this project until I had built another garage/shop. But the longer I let this car sit, the more expensive the project gets. So I will muddle forward as best I can.

Posted by: cary Mar 29 2017, 07:56 AM

Forgot about the MIG gas ...................... and the east wind.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=187546&view=findpost&p=1717209
We built ours with the rotisserie, sorry kind of cheating.

Sounds like your on the right track. Maybe I can break away for a couple days this summer and come over and check on you.
But the main thing is getting started and staying after it. Your passion is coming thru loud and clear .................

Posted by: bbrock Mar 29 2017, 10:20 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 29 2017, 07:56 AM) *

Forgot about the MIG gas ...................... and the east wind.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=187546&view=findpost&p=1717209
We built ours with the rotisserie, sorry kind of cheating.

Sounds like your on the right track. Maybe I can break away for a couple days this summer and come over and check on you.
But the main thing is getting started and staying after it. Your passion is coming thru loud and clear .................


I spent a lot of time yesterday pouring over those photos on your rustoration thread like a scholar studying the Dead Sea Scrolls. Thought about giving you a hard time about using a rotisserie to build it too happy11.gif I'm going to try to replicate what you did with the addition of the biga$$ tires.

You are welcome anytime! Bring Super-In Law! He looks like about the handiest shop tool a guy could have. Maybe we can get Dave out here and make it a party.

QUOTE(914_teener @ Mar 28 2017, 07:32 PM) *

Take the tub to Cary for the tub resto.....do the small stuff yourself.

Then drive it.


Now where is the fun in that? biggrin.gif I confess I'm a pathologically extreme DIY guy. Spent the last few weekends pouring, finishing, and installing these:
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That's the second set I've done. The weekend before that was welding in a rocker panel rustoration on my Nissan Pathfinder/snowplow. A couple years back, I did a major patch on the same truck (thanks Kansas road salt mad.gif :
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I'm ready for this.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 29 2017, 09:42 PM

Made a little progress today. My engine yoke arrived so I hauled my engine out of the shed and mounted it on the stand.

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That Mehling oil pump will be coming off and replaced with stock before final assembly. I let some yahoo talk me into it way back when. The 050 dizzy will also go. I paid dearly for it back in the day as they were getting hard to come buy.

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To my horror, one of the cylinders that I had just freed last week and soaked with penetrating oil had already seized again. It took a little coaxing to get that one off. It turned out to be minor but scared the post-2-1117899824.gif out of me.

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It only took about 15 seconds with a hone to clean it up. You can still see a slight discoloration on this one.

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Unless someone says this is a problem, I'm going to leave it alone. The other cylinders look perfect after a very quick hone. Tomorrow I will give the jugs a hot soapy bath to remove any honing residue and then give them a light coat of motor oil before slipping them back on.

While the jugs were off, I made sure all of the piston rings were floating free in their grooves. A few were gummed in and had to be work a bit to get them free. One of the compression rings from the cylinder that was really stuck and took about 45 minutes soaked in PB Blaster and a lot of gentle tapping with a wooden mallet before it popped loose. Once they were all free, I sprayed blaster into all the grooves and worked the rings around until I was sure they were all floating properly. I plan to give the pistons a wash with lacquer thinner before putting the jugs back on to remove any residue and then smear of motor oil unless someone has a better suggestion. I just don't want to leave anything behind that might interfere with the rings seating when I finally fire it up.

While things were open, I also peaked inside at the crank and camshafts. Everything looked good except some very minor flash rust on one of the rods. I put a drop of assembly lube on a gloved finger and rubbed it out. I smeared a drop on each side of all of the rods for protection. I also added a drop to each of the wrist pin oil ports while they were available.

Finally, I pulled out all the cam followers to make sure there were no issues there and turned the crank a couple revolutions just to make sure things were smooth. Tappet faces, bore and cam lobes were still well protected and lubricated with the assembly lube from when I assembled the case.

Once I have the cylinders back on, I'll spray the piston tops with Stabil fogging oil and stuff them with clean rags to hopefully keep them protected. The tectyl I ordered shipped today so I'll spend a few evenings recleaning the case and will brush it with tectyl when it arrives. Then I'll put a bag on the engine and move on to more important things. Should I fill it with oil?

I'm just glad I caught the engine in time. Maybe its screams were what prompted me to raise this project from the dead. I think if I'd have waited another year, it would have been a very expensive delay.

Posted by: TM_Corey Mar 30 2017, 09:45 AM

Love the story!!

welcome.png

Posted by: mepstein Mar 30 2017, 09:57 AM

You should decide if you want a restoration project or a 914. Once you start stripping down the car, you will find that every panel has rust, multiples of what you see now. A rotisserie wont help at this point, the car will bend, even with door braces. You will spend more money on replacement sheetmetal than you will to buy a nice running 914. And be years ahead.

Posted by: dcheek Mar 30 2017, 04:17 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Mar 30 2017, 07:57 AM) *

You should decide if you want a restoration project or a 914. Once you start stripping down the car, you will find that every panel has rust, multiples of what you see now. A rotisserie wont help at this point, the car will bend, even with door braces. You will spend more money on replacement sheetmetal than you will to buy a nice running 914. And be years ahead.

In practical terms you are right but, I understand the emotion involved with this project. It's just the way it has to be done in the owner's mind.

Dave

Posted by: bbrock Apr 3 2017, 01:27 PM

I intended to get the car on a roll-around jig over the weekend but Rocky Mountain spring weather and other obligations slowed progress. At least I got the hard part done which was to mount a cross bar to the trailing arm mounts. The will ride on 2" rails supported by 10" pneumatic casters. I had rotisserie envy since this job took half a day and would have gone much quicker with the car upside down and inside the garage where I could weld without taking it off the car. I thought I had some flux core wire but couldn't find it. So I had to bolt the supports to the car. Jack the cross bar into place, and then haul my welder out to the car to make enough crappy tack welds without the benefit of gas to hold the bits together enough to bring it back in the shop to finish the job. But that's the way it goes.

Had another issue when I returned from the hour round trip to town to buy some bolts, only to discover that some yahoo had mixed non-metric bolts in the bin so half of what I bought won't work. I'll know to always take a voucher nut with me from now on.

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After the weather turned bad, I spent some time sorting and reorganizing the various boxes of parts that have been moved and stored for thirty years. My box of NOS had an eclectic array of treasures I had forgotten I had bought. Including: caliper rebuild kits, flywheel shims and crush washers, ebrake cable, ignition wires, rocker hardware CV boots, and more. Some stuff won't be used and will wind up FS in the classifieds.

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Overall, not a lot of progress; but at least it's progress.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 3 2017, 04:07 PM

Sorry, but I gotta ask...

Are you gonna be a dental floss tycoon?



--DD

Posted by: bbrock Apr 3 2017, 04:44 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Apr 3 2017, 04:07 PM) *

Sorry, but I gotta ask...

Are you gonna be a dental floss tycoon?

--DD


beerchug.gif Of course! But then again, there are many dental floss tycoons here in Montana.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 11 2017, 03:08 PM

New Wheels and Tires

Well, they aren't exactly stock but seem appropriate for the moment.

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If I were to do this again, I would have put the car on a rotisserie first and then build the dolly jig. It's just near impossible to jack the car up in a way that the jackstands don't interfere with fitment of the jig. Add to that that one of my jack points was rusted out, I was doing it on a gravel driveway, and it wasn't exactly level. Let's just say that the operation was not OSHA approved and took two solid days to finally get the car on the dolly. Just in time too because within hours of wheeling it in the garage, it started to snow - that's spring in Montana for you. The 10 inch pneumatic tires work reasonably well on our gravel driveway. My wife and I were able to wheel it into the garage without too much trouble. But the pneumatic tires add a lot of rolling resistance and having swivel casters on all four corners makes steering a bear. I think I'll swap the tires our for solid core rubber wheels and see if that helps. I might replace the rear swivels with fixed casters but haven't decided yet.

Just having the car on the dolly makes it look a lot better and I was able to continue with what was left of stripping to the chassis and make a better assessment of the condition of the sheet metal. It looks like about $1,100 of RD panels plus a lot of fabricated patches will get the job done. But I'm hoping to sore at least a few panels from donor cars but so far, no luck on that.

I got most of the tar off the interior floor. The rear section is toast and will need to be replaced. The bottoms of both inner longs are badly rusted but can be patches with sheet metal. The outer flanges of the front floor panels where they attach to the longs are rusted in spots but can be patched. If money were no object, I'd replace the front floor with the RD panel but money is always an object. The two large holes under the pedal cluster that were a major reason the car was mothballed to begin with, did not repair themselves in the thirty years since, so those also need patched.

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The left outer long is in pretty good shape. I had forgotten that I had patched that long and replaced the jack pyramid and tube and those look good. There is a small patch needed on that long but thanks to the rusted out bottom of the inner, I was able to get a pretty good look inside and don't see anything major over surface rust. I did a lot of stabbing with a screw driver to make sure it was sound.

Moving to the hell hole. Thing were not too bad. The console replacement I did when I first got the car has held up pretty well. I didn't get the rust stabilized as well as I should have, so there are some minor spots to patch but nothing major other than the right long which wasn't touched int he earlier repair. The engine tray is still pretty solid with a few minor spots to be patched, and I need to replace the engine seal track bead. The battery tray is toast. The support is still sound but will need to be removed to access other spots to patch.

The left outer roof pillar needs some minor repair and the right needs major repair. There is about 1/4 inch of bondo and a bunch of "California rivets" on the right quarter panel and pillar so there is almost certainly some metalwork to be done there. And there are lots of small patches in door corners etc. that need to be done.

On the ends, the front trunk floor and rear section of rear trunk floor need replaced. There's a good change the rear trunk lid will get replaced but I'd like fail at hammer forming a patch there first. It seems like a low risk skill builder.

It's a big project ahead. There will be surprises, but the sheet metal bill is about what I was expecting and doesn't seem horribly out of line. Last Friday I upgraded the gas bottle size for my welder and finally got a cart for the rig. I also made an offer on a 60 gal., 6.5 HP air compressor from Craigslist this morning to replace the one I sold with the house when I moved. Still waiting to hear if I was able to snag it. I hope so because I don't think I can do this without good air.


Posted by: burton73 Apr 11 2017, 10:12 PM

Hi Brent,

I love your story and the picture of you and your wife from the 80s I was married around then as well.

I do not want to come off as rude but I was born in California and lived here my whole life and have had a number of 914s from my 25th birthday on. I have bought and sold cars over the years and mostly rust free cars have spoiled me. I think you should see if you could get a roller from a dry state and get it delivered to you.

I think you will be ahead of the game. If you do not get a full car look for parts like hoods and doors. I know that I have an old hood and doors with little to no rust. Bruce Stone here can help you get good body parts if you need. Patching panels may save one more 914 but there are still a lot of them. You could get a pallet of parts sent to you from California. “California knows how to party” I was a huge Frank Zappa fan. It should not cost you that much if you combine a bunch of parts.

See what you can find as a roller. I paid $3,500 for a primo roller from Palm Springs that had been repainted really well and had a fresh interior in real leather. Radio, lots of great stuff. New windshield ECT. Carpet. I got the car in my Avatar from Camp914 and he had it delivered to me for $500.

This will all add up plus your time to do all of the work. There will still be plenty to do and you will be on the road much faster if you find the right roller. A fixed rusted car in my option is not as good as an original car. It would take so much more work to fix the rust that you do not see. The sail panels in side are crying. Lots of body panels inside that you cannot see are crying. The problem is if you do not get it all it comes back to haunt you. The perfect paint job 5 years later gets bubbles in it in some areas.

I had a 70 Challenger convertible that I bought in 1983. Looked premo. $3,000. back then. It was Hemi orange, fresh paint. Bought it at a car show in Pomona from 2 guys that brought it down from Canada. Sold it 5 years later for $4,000 after the rust started to creep back through the rockers.

One mans option. But one man that loves these cars as well as you do and as a businessman I look it all over.

Welcome to the board. Great guys and lots of knowledge. I hope I am not out of line.


Bob B
welcome.png

Posted by: r_towle Apr 11 2017, 10:22 PM

welcome.png

NICE mullet!

Posted by: burton73 Apr 11 2017, 10:52 PM

Posted twice

Posted by: JOEPROPER Apr 12 2017, 06:44 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Apr 3 2017, 06:07 PM) *

Sorry, but I gotta ask...

Are you gonna be a dental floss tycoon?



--DD

av-943.gif I was thinking the same thing!!!

Posted by: bretth Apr 12 2017, 07:28 AM

+1 Zappa! (Whips out old vinyls)

Posted by: KELTY360 Apr 12 2017, 10:23 AM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Apr 11 2017, 08:12 PM) *

Hi Brent,

I love your story and the picture of you and your wife from the 80s I was married around then as well.

I do not want to come off as rude but I was born in California and lived here my whole life and have had a number of 914s from my 25th birthday on. I have bought and sold cars over the years and mostly rust free cars have spoiled me. I think you should see if you could get a roller from a dry state and get it delivered to you.

I think you will be ahead of the game. If you do not get a full car look for parts like hoods and doors. I know that I have an old hood and doors with little to no rust. Bruce Stone here can help you get good body parts if you need. Patching panels may save one more 914 but there are still a lot of them. You could get a pallet of parts sent to you from California. “California knows how to party” I was a huge Frank Zappa fan. It should not cost you that much if you combine a bunch of parts.

See what you can find as a roller. I paid $3,500 for a primo roller from Palm Springs that had been repainted really well and had a fresh interior in real leather. Radio, lots of great stuff. New windshield ECT. Carpet. I got the car in my Avatar from Camp914 and he had it delivered to me for $500.

This will all add up plus your time to do all of the work. There will still be plenty to do and you will be on the road much faster if you find the right roller. A fixed rusted car in my option is not as good as an original car. It would take so much more work to fix the rust that you do not see. The sail panels in side are crying. Lots of body panels inside that you cannot see are crying. The problem is if you do not get it all it comes back to haunt you. The perfect paint job 5 years later gets bubbles in it in some areas.

I had a 70 Challenger convertible that I bought in 1983. Looked premo. $3,000. back then. It was Hemi orange, fresh paint. Bought it at a car show in Pomona from 2 guys that brought it down from Canada. Sold it 5 years later for $4,000 after the rust started to creep back through the rockers.

One mans option. But one man that loves these cars as well as you do and as a businessman I look it all over.

Welcome to the board. Great guys and lots of knowledge. I hope I am not out of line.


Bob B
welcome.png


I respectfully disagree. The man has a car he's obviously attached to that is also desirable in the 914 world. He's got the skills and desire to bring the car back. Why would you recommend he go chasing after the mythical rust free roller? We've seen many cars in worse shape than this restored and driven happily. I think you overestimate the number of restorable 914s out there and you certainly denigrate the value of those that are left. You're correct, you are spoiled by the rust free 914s you've owned.

All the best to bbrock for his determination to bring his 914 back to the road.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 12 2017, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Apr 11 2017, 10:12 PM) *

Welcome to the board. Great guys and lots of knowledge. I hope I am not out of line.


Thanks Bob! Not out of line. Just honest. I realize there are much easier, and most likely cheaper, paths to getting to a nice 914. But that isn't what this is about. If I didn't have this car, I wouldn't be in the market for one. I love these cars and look forward to having one on the road again, but I live in the boonies, 3 miles from the nearest pavement, with 9 months of winter. It's not the worlds most practical car here. But it's the car I have, and I have two choices: restore it, or sell it for parts. Only one of those puts me behind the wheel of a 914 in the future. The other just leaves me with fond memories of how much I enjoyed driving these cars back in the day. But that would be the end of my 914 story.

I realize I could probably get more for just the engine and Fuchs than the whole car is currently worth. I was just joking with my neighbor about that the other day. He has a 71 Challenger BTW and my brother has a 70 Charger. But I work with my brain by day and really enjoy working with my hands in me free time. I love building things, and even more, I like restoring things that have fallen into disrepair. I've also been wanting to take my metal working to another level and I think this car makes a good project. I have very little $ invested. $500 for the car and about $1,500 in the engine. Both paid when the Soviet Union was still a thing and parts were much cheaper then. I know enough about rust on these cars to realize that what is seen on the outside is only a fraction of what is hiding inside. I've been able to get a good look inside the members that would have been a deal killer for me. I think this car is in better shape than many of the projects in rebuild threads I've read through. So I'm moving forward. My only real trepidation is that I know my shop space is woefully inadequate. The plan was to build my shop and THEN work on the car. But time is not this car's friend and I don't have the funds to do both right now. That's just the way it is.

Posted by: Rusty Apr 12 2017, 01:52 PM

Welcome to the board, just a little bit late.

With unlimited time, money, and patience all our little cars could be restored.

I've been down the road you're traveling - you have more skills than I did when I started. I wish you lots of great memories. smile.gif

Posted by: aggiezig Apr 13 2017, 12:05 AM

welcome.png

Really admire your passion for your 914. Best of luck, will be watching this thread!

P.S. - I had those same HF casters on my first body stand and ended up trashing them. The "swivels" got loose over time with the weight of the car and I became concerned one of them would topple when trying to steer around. Granted, my stand was much higher off the ground and made of wood.

If you have access to steel, consider building a rotisserie or octisserie (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=289586&view=findpost&p=2417844). Really wasn't too much more work and being able to flip the car over has made it incredibly easy to do underside repairs.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 13 2017, 07:44 AM

QUOTE(aggiezig @ Apr 13 2017, 12:05 AM) *

welcome.png

Really admire your passion for your 914. Best of luck, will be watching this thread!

P.S. - I had those same HF casters on my first body stand and ended up trashing them. The "swivels" got loose over time with the weight of the car and I became concerned one of them would topple when trying to steer around. Granted, my stand was much higher off the ground and made of wood.

If you have access to steel, consider building a rotisserie or octisserie (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=289586&view=findpost&p=2417844). Really wasn't too much more work and being able to flip the car over has made it incredibly easy to do underside repairs.


Thanks! You've confirmed what I suspected with those casters. They are cheap HF after all and not top quality. I figure at $15 a pop, I can replace as needed during the project. I'm probably going to swap 2 of he casters out for fixed casters which will take a couple of those cheap swivel bearings out of the equation and give me spares. I think that will help enormously with being able to steer this when rolling in and out of the garage.

A rotisserie is definitely in the future. My plan is to get the longs repaired while it is on this jig with car supported by suspension mounts and doors braced, then cut the jig up to repurpose some of the steel for a rotisserie. I sized the tubing with that in mind. I looked at your octisserie option and like it a lot. But decided with my tight garage space, it wasn't going to work. I found a neat rotisserie design that uses a couple of HF worm drive winches to raise and lower the car. I will probably go that route.

I'm giving your rebuild thread another read to see how you tackled some of the repairs I'm getting ready to dive into.

Posted by: worn Apr 13 2017, 08:12 AM

Off topic. But I too admire the plan.

I am thinking of driving out to that region this summer. Are there any Montana Wyoming Idaho etc group events such as drives? Made it to Arizona last year and had a blast.

Posted by: cary Apr 13 2017, 08:21 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 12 2017, 10:02 AM) *

But I work with my brain by day and really enjoy working with my hands in me free time. I love building things, and even more, I like restoring things that have fallen into disrepair. I've also been wanting to take my metal working to another level and I think this car makes a good project.


That's what got me started. It's now become my semi retirement career.
I too hate to throw things away. Keep up the good work.

As for the $$$$ portion of the deal. You have figure your time has no value. It's a hobby and it's all about the learning. It's not for everyone. Keep track of your parts and project consumables. The $$$ you would have calculated as wages will be gobbled up with painting the car. Maybe you'll get lucky on painting. I had my Carrera RS replica project painted for $500. I did all the bodywork, he did the paint. Montana pricing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/64578-carys-3-0-rs-project.html

Which morphed into this :
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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/84985-my-porsche-play-house-has-begun-13.html


Posted by: bbrock Apr 13 2017, 08:21 AM

QUOTE(worn @ Apr 13 2017, 08:12 AM) *

Off topic. But I too admire the plan.

I am thinking of driving out to that region this summer. Are there any Montana Wyoming Idaho etc group events such as drives? Made it to Arizona last year and had a blast.


I think mtn flyr would be the one to ask. I'm not plugged into any Porsche scene, if there is onel. A nickname for Bozeman is Bozeangeles, Montucky for its split personality between Hollywood and Deliverance. The Porsches do come out in summer but I rarely see a 914. I can tell you that there is not one 914 in any salvage yard in the state.

But the Beartooth Highway is one of the most spectacular drives in the country and a must do. It feeds right into Yellowstone NP where you can challenge the bison with your teener.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 13 2017, 08:47 AM

Fun Diversion

Here's just a quick little side trip. Thought it might be fund to show the owner's manual package for this car. The tech specs booklet is something I bought when I started this deal. Am I correct this is NLA? I dug into the maintenance record and receipts for the first time. Learned the car was originally purchased in PA in June, 73. Then in 76, the car moved from PA to Kansas City. The receipt trail begins with the woman I bought the car from. Earliest receipt is from the same KC dealership for an owner' manual and car cover. That seems like a new used car owner purchase to me. There is no hint of when the car got its slathering of bondo and nasty Maco-quality paint job. My guess is that the original owner beat the crap out of the car for 3 years, then did a cheap makeover before unloading it. Maintenance receipts then go all over the east half of the continent: KS, DC, Houston, Fort Worth, MI, DE, Denver...

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And a couple more docs in my files that have been gathering dust. One from a familiar member here, the other a letter from Bruce Anderson from Excellence Mag answering a bunch of dumb questions. If you can't read the date of that letter, it's Aug 15, 1988. Kids, before the Internet, this is the way people communicated long distance... slits.gif

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Posted by: Porschef Apr 13 2017, 10:50 AM

QUOTE(JOEPROPER @ Apr 12 2017, 08:44 AM) *

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Apr 3 2017, 06:07 PM) *

Sorry, but I gotta ask...

Are you gonna be a dental floss tycoon?



--DD

av-943.gif I was thinking the same thing!!!



Sometime in the fall of 1978, I ambled down the street of my folks house, up over the LIRR tracks onto the campus of SUNY Stony Brook University and went the Zappa show at the gym. No one I knew was interested in going so I went solo smoke.gif smoke.gif . As was typical with most shows there, ticket was a whopping 5 bucks.

Some pretty wild stuff. At 17, I only had an inkling of what I was gonna see. Sufice to say, it was an experience. laugh.gif



Posted by: bbrock Apr 17 2017, 09:17 AM

Weekend Update
Saturday I swapped out the rear swivel casters on my dolly jig and swapped out the pneumatic tires on all four corners for http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-worry-free-tire-96691.html . The fixed casters were a big improvement but the flat free wheels were a bust. They are not solid rubber and create flat spots after a few minutes of sitting with weight on them which makes the car really hard to get rolling. So I switched back to the pneumatics and was able to roll the car out of the garage and across the gravel drive by myself on Sunday. I haven't given up on better wheels though. I want to try http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-x-2-1-2-half-inch-solid-rubber-tire-35459.html but they are not in stock at my local HF.

Most of Saturday was spent cleaning the tiny garage to reduce the trip hazard and continuing to strip the car. I sealed the deal on a bunch of sheet metal from donor cars. KevinW is sending me front and rear trunk floors, passenger side engine mount, and both sail panels for a very reasonable price that slashes my sheet metal bill substantially. Other progress on Saturday was scrubbing up the engine case that had become grungy and tarnished in storage as best I could, and applying Tectyl 846 to protect it. I don't know if this stuff was originally put on Type IV engines but from reading here and on Pelican, it is what Porsche used to protect 911 engines and trannys. I like amber look and will treat the carbs and tranny the same way. I will also be ordering new yellow zinc bolts and nuts for the spots that will be visible when the engine tin is on.

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Door Braces

Sunday was door braces day and I would really appreciate if the experienced pros can check my work here and offer some wisdom. I stood in from of the heim joint bins at the hardware store for a long time because that's how I wanted to build these braces. But I couldn't justify doubling the cost for braces that will probably be used only once. So I went the turnbuckle route.

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That door card and glass will come out before any more work is done.

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Do these braces look okay? Is that lower nut placed in a good spot? It seemed like that inner long provide a bit more meat for pushing and pulling and is in more of a straight line with the roll bar mount point than the speaker grill area. But I could be wrong.

And now, more questions. Before doing any cutting or putting any tension on the braces, the door gaps are flaring wide at the tops.

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The car was too close to the garage wall to get a shot of the passenger side, but it is only slightly better. 10mm at the top and 4mm at the bottom. This one is 13mm at the top in case you can't read it.

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I think the hinge side gaps look good. I'm guessing about 5mm all around is a good target?


I'm not surprised the gaps were off but thought the flex would be in the other direction. The car has been supported by its wheels for 13 years and is not supported by the A-arm mounts in front, and trailing arm mounts (where the alignment shims go) in the rear. So now for the questions:

  1. Are my braces adequate or should I add more?
  2. Should I add more support under the car?

I have not taken adequate frame measurements yet but will do so. Apparently Montana has outlawed the metric system and I'm having a hard time finding a metric tape measure or steel rule locally. One more hardware store to try. But I will find those and make up a couple of measuring rods for the critical dimensions. I have also not leveled the car yet. There was no point since I needed to roll the car out of the garage so I could do some maintenance on the wife's DD. But before tearing into the longs, I want to make sure I have my ducks in a row - adequate bracing in place and the car supported properly. It seems like adjustable door braces from hinge post to lock post would be handy but then I lose the ability to keep the doors on, which seems like a huge plus. So any advice here is appreciated.

Finally, I'm going to order a boroscope from Amazon today. I want to get inside that driver's long to see what is going on. I may wind up taking that off too.


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Posted by: bbrock May 15 2017, 10:49 AM

I haven't posted any progress in awhile but, despite a quick trip down to the Grand Canyon, there has been some. While waiting for sheet metal to arrive, I've spent most of my time continue to strip the car, organize parts, and begin cleaning and refurbishing. All the interior pieces got a scrubbing with Garrot's Garage interior cleaner followed by a wipe with 303 Protectant. The dash and knee pads are in rough shape but it is amazing how much nicer they looks with just a good cleaning. I will try my hand at crack repair later. Once the parts were cleaned, I bagged them in bags purchased from a local dry cleaner and tossed in some desiccants to hopefully keep the parts in good condition in storage. Our family room was beginning to look like a parts warehouse.

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I spent some time refurbing the rusty and neglected instrument cluster that included repairing and resetting the odometer, repainting needles, and repainting bezels and mounting plate. The old mount rings are still in decent shape so I just cleaned them and gave them a wipe with 303 protectant. The worst job was refurbing the trip odometer cable which had been seized as long as I've owned the car. It took a lot of soaking with PB Blaster and heat, but I finally got everything apart, cleaned, and working again. Unfortunately I snapped one of the ears on the tiny little set screw that holds the knurled reset knob on so I'm trying to source a new one. When I was finished, my wife asked if I bought a new instrument cluster, which made me happy.

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Just like Sheldon Cooper's spot - zero, zero, zero, zero... and one extra zero.

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Next I turned my attention to the heater/ventilation control panel which was in really rough shape.

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But with sanding, paint, and refrabricating a missing piece, I think it's an improvement. I googed a couple spots that can be seen close up. I'll probably try to fix them but they aren't noticeable at the distance a driver or passenger will be sitting, so I'm probably the only one who will ever notice. I even restored the glow in the dark finish to the up/down arrows. The chrome bezel will get replated eventually.

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On Friday I picked up my first batch of sheet metal! A big thank you to KevinW who gave me a great price on these pieces which goes a long way toward keeping my restoration costs under control. He also was meticulous in cutting these pieces to my specifications and leaving me plenty to work with for final trimming. beerchug.gif

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On Saturday I was occupied cleaning up our family room and garage so didn't make much progress. My plan on Sunday was to start working on the front trunk floor but snow from the day before and two burst inner tubes on my cheap HF pneumatic casters prevented me from rolling the car into the garage, and guaranteed it would be less than pleasant to work on the trunk outside.

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Instead, I pulled the sail panels I bought into the garage for prepping. Later in the afternoon, after the snow had melted, I started chopping on the car.

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I was happy to not find any nasty surprises inside the roll bars. Mostly just surface rust to be cleaned with some minor repair work to be done on the passenger side. That's where I ended the day.

I'm going to leave the sail panels off until I complete the long and hell hole repairs since the holes provide some extra access to the inner fenders and door jambs. I've also decided to replace outer longs on both sides instead of just the passenger side. I just want to open up the driver's side to make sure the job is done right. But I'm leaning away from replacing the rear section of the floor. Most of the metal is intact but the bottoms of several bead channels are rusted out. I'm going to try making a hammer form to create good patches. If it doesn't work, an RD floor kit will still be an option. Finally, Cary was right that the rear trunk lid is trash. Not only is the rust more extensive than I hoped, but it was caused by a thick layer of cracked bondo over a shitty damage repair. So the trunk lid will be donating its sheet metal to other parts of the car.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 15 2017, 11:20 AM

Nice progress. Great to see another resurrection.

Posted by: LowBridge May 15 2017, 11:55 AM

welcome welcome.png and wow... you nailed that gauge cluster, it looks new, well done and gl

Posted by: bbrock May 15 2017, 12:28 PM

QUOTE(LowBridge @ May 15 2017, 11:55 AM) *

welcome welcome.png and wow... you nailed that gauge cluster, it looks new, well done and gl


Thanks! I forgot to mention that I also replaced the plastic lens on the tach with glass. The other two gauges were already glass so my car must have been built during the transition to plastic. A local glass shop cut it on the spot.

The Testor's fluorescent orange I used on the gauge needles is just a barely perceptible hair more orange than the original, unfaded color. I wish I would have picked up a bottled of fluorescent red to mix in just a few drops to get the match perfect. Nobody will ever know the difference but I'll always know there are a few drops of barely more red paint under those silver needle centers.

Posted by: burton73 May 15 2017, 12:33 PM

It is coming among well. Gauges look super. Did you put in a new plastic gear in trip meter as they all die after a long time?

Bob

Posted by: bbrock May 15 2017, 12:45 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ May 15 2017, 12:33 PM) *

It is coming among well. Gauges look super. Did you put in a new plastic gear in trip meter as they all die after a long time?

Bob


No. But I haven't re-crimped the bezel on that particular gauge yet so it is not too late. Where is the best place to get one?

Posted by: burton73 May 15 2017, 01:28 PM

Pelican sells them. I had the one on my 86 Carrera go bad. 70,000 miles and it just breaks from the I guess the grease on the gear breaking down the plastic over the years. I sent mine out to fix but you can do this yourself. They can send you the small parts by mail.

Bob B




Posted by: bbrock May 15 2017, 11:21 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ May 15 2017, 01:28 PM) *

Pelican sells them. I had the one on my 86 Carrera go bad. 70,000 miles and it just breaks from the I guess the grease on the gear breaking down the plastic over the years. I sent mine out to fix but you can do this yourself. They can send you the small parts by mail.

Bob B


Thanks. I'm putting together a Pelican order anyway. Is the http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&make=POR&description=ODO-PORM17 what I'm after?

Posted by: bbrock May 15 2017, 11:32 PM

duplicate deleted

Posted by: bbrock Jun 5 2017, 11:54 AM

More Progress

Haven't updated in a couple weeks but have been busy on the project. Continued to work on some little stuff in the evenings like cleaning up the fresh air control box that had been painted (not just overspray) by the PO. Took several days of soaking in brake fluid to soften the paint to get it off without damaging the plastic. Once it was finally clean, I refurbed with a kit from 914rubber and added the screen from the same. I read that some people had to trim the screen to get the gasket to fit. The trick for me was to install the screen in the gasket with the flange angle point down. Then start installing the gasket onto the box at one of the narrow ends. Work along the long front and back until the box is seated in the gasket groove along all but the last short end. Then I used a 4" taping knife to wedge the last end of the gasket into place. Not too hard and fits perfectly. I hope installing this thing back into the car is as much fun as I have read. blink.gif

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I also took a day to drive to Billings to pick up this Craigslist find. Not the screaming deal I missed out on earlier, but still a good supply of air for half the price it would have cost to buy new.

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Of course I had to interrupt my work on Saturday to get it up and running. I was able to dust off my old Sharpe air separator/regulator that has been in storage since I sold my old compressor to the new owner of our last house 13 years ago. The next time I am in town, I will pick up an oil fogger and parts to plumb this so I have a clean air line, and an oiled line. I plan to use different style quick connects to prevent accidentally hooking up clean hoses and tools to the oiled line.

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I also used my 25% off HF coupon to pick up a 40 lb. sandblaster on Memorial Day.

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FINALLY - REAL PROGRESS! rocking nana.gif

Up until now, I have been swimming in the kiddie pool. Time to get serious and do something manly. sawzall-smiley.gif

After much planning, I trimmed up the donor front trunk piece. The cancer on my trunk had crept onto the lower wheel wells. My donor piece had enough material to make nice patches. On the driver's side, I cut the spot welds on the wheel well seam to separate the wheel well remnant for later use. The passenger side had less rust so I decided to just include the patch in the trim. This turned out to be a mistake. Unfortunately, the pass side ear under the headlight bucket of the donor piece was damaged beyond repair, so I had to slice it to require a butt weld.

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And here is the opening cut out, ready to receive the donor.

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You can see the driver's wheel well patch laying on the floor. I decided to do this in stages to allow aligning the new trunk with the original pinch weld seam before cutting it out.

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And here you can see the patch cuts for the pass side.

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About the biggest PIA was getting the front suspension assembly bolted into place prior to welding to make sure all the mounting points stayed properly aligned. The problem was that the chassis is bolted to the rolling dolly via these same mounting points. So I jacked the front of the car up on a beam of doubled 2x4s to get the necessary clearance (and forgot to take a picture).

Despite trying to be very careful, the butt weld gap under the firewall wound up just a little wider than I was shooting for, so I rigged up a copper backing jig to hold things straight and help with blow through using a 1 inch copper pipe attached with washers and self-tapping screws. The copper wires were just to let me hook the jig on from underneath, and then pull it tight from the front to screw into place.

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I didn't notice until seeing this picture that I forgot to strip the undercoating off the bottom before welding headbang.gif It didn't seem to affect the welds and I had a fire extinguisher within arms reach at least.

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And here it is about half way through tacking.

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And here it is in place. It will need some metal finishing. The butt weld on the ear turned out great, but the little wheel well patch will need more work. The top of the patch butted against some slightly pitted, but seemingly solid metal which blew out like a mofo when welded. I was able to gap the divide but am not happy with the result and worried it will be too brittle. So I'll be cutting that out and redoing to make sure I get into good, clean metal.

When I get the car on a rotisserie, I'll also weld in a reinforcement strip behind that firewall seam. I hate to do it, but that seems like it could be a flex point and I worry about the brittleness of the weld. I did try to minimize heat in doing those tacks, and let things cool down slowly between tack runs. But still... better safe than sorry I think.

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The pinch weld on the driver's side was clamped only, and not welded.

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So as soon as I had things in place, I gut another big hole out.

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And patched it up.

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That's where I stopped for the night. My welding was definitely rusty but by the time I got to this last patch, I had my 30 year old Hobart dialed in pretty good and was back in the groove. I should be able to finish tacking this in today and get it ground. It looks like the backside of seam will only require minimal sanding. That's nice.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 5 2017, 11:59 AM

I forgot to mention that the trunk bracing was removed carefully so it can be reinstalled after sandblasting and primer. Figured I'd take advantage of the extra access to that area as long as I can.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 9 2017, 07:17 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Apr 3 2017, 04:07 PM) *

Sorry, but I gotta ask...

Are you gonna be a dental floss tycoon?



--DD


OT, but I was at my local cedar outlet today to pick up some siding for a garden shed. I had to get a pic of the road sign.

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Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 9 2017, 01:44 PM

Awesome! I wonder if that is a reference to the song at all?

--DD

Posted by: bbrock Jun 9 2017, 02:16 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jun 9 2017, 01:44 PM) *

Awesome! I wonder if that is a reference to the song at all?

--DD


Probably a happy coincidence with the name of an early homesteader. But in my mind, this marks the exact spot Frank started his empire.

But we have some colorful place names in these parts. Here is my personal favorite:

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And if you are brave enough, you can stay at the https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/bdnf/recarea/?recid=5671.

Posted by: bbrock Jul 3 2017, 07:32 PM

I'm overdue for an update here. There has been more work than progress but things are moving forward. First, I finished up the front trunk for now. There is still some metal finish work to do (I just received my new shrinking disc today), and I won't weld the braces back in until I can blast the areas under the headlamps out and get some epoxy primer on. Might as well take advantage of access to that area while I have it. Overall, I'm pleased with the result.

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Then I lost almost a full weekend of work to finish up our little potting shed that is a hold over project from last fall.

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Then it was back to the Porsche. But I knew my shop situation was going to be a challenge when I started this. I needed to make some improvements. So I devised a plan I think will get me through this project, and leave me with a garage bay to park the car when it is done. I did a massive cleaning and reconfiguration of my woodshop space to make room for rolling the Porsche into that side of the garage. Then I used an HF coupon to purchase a 10' x 17' portable garage and assembled it just outside my woodshop garage bay. I left the end at the garage door open so I can roll the Porsche in and out of the garage or tent as the need arises. I'd like to add a second door on that end, but so far I've gotten no response from HF about buying just the door end. I will also have to reinforce this structure before the snows come, or else it will collapse for sure.

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The idea is that the tent will make a makeshift blasting and painting booth. To facilitate rolling the chassis, I had to bring in a yard of road mix to tamp in the driveway to level the transition between driveway and garage floor. Then I covered the gravel with cheap, 1/4" plywood to keep the dolly castors from digging into the fresh gravel. Thicker plywood would be better, but I'm cheap and this does the trick. I can easily pull the car in and push it out by myself. Finally, I covered the tent floor with thick tarp. The tarp catches blasting media for recovery and should help keep dust down when painting time comes. I tested the media recovering by blasting part of the rear trunk area with crushed glass. Then I rolled the chassis into the garage, lifted the edges of the tarp, and was able to shopvac up at least 80% of what I had blasted.

A bonus is that I can have the Porsche AND the wife's DD in the garage at the same time. That scored some bonus points. cheer.gif

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Of course part of the challenge is figuring out how to get the tubs of car parts off the garage floor. So on Saturday, I reclaimed some space from a high shelf in the garage and loaded it with tubs and boxes. I found another spot of unused wall high on another wall, and added another shelf. It was just enough to get everything off the floor. The garage/shop never looked so clean and spacious. Then Saturday evening, there was a rumble and crash and I got sheeplove.gif

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That is what it looks like when you just assume the shelf you installed 10 years ago had heavy duty hardware headbang.gif Overall, I got off lucky. The only damage was two OEM Hella taillight lenses. One was a Euro lens I planned to use. The other was a perfect condition US original that I planned to sell. The euro lens broke cleanly at the glue line between the amber and red sections so is salvageable. Anyone have suggestions on the best glue to use? The US lens is trash.

Despite the setback, I had been chipping away at cutting, cleaning, and prepping my donor pieces for the rear trunk during the odd hour here and there. By Saturday evening, I was ready to tack in the tail patch.

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So I did

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The patch is slightly lumpy along the spot weld line from having to weld up all the spot weld cutter holes. But it isn't too bad and I'm hoping my new shrinking disc with some hammer and dolly work will smooth it out. But first I need to finish welding in the patch.

So that's where things stand now. Next will be patching the rear trunk floor which should go pretty quick. Then the fun stuff with the outer longs. sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 10 2017, 06:17 PM

This weeks update is a short one. I got the tail patch welded and ground...

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and welded in the rear trunk floor patch.

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Got to use my new shrinking disc on the tail to smooth out the lumps created from welding the spot weld cutter holes shut. It worked great. The surface is within about 1/32" of smooth. I think I could get it to perfection with a lot more time and effort, but 1/32" of filler seems a fair price to pay for gaining time for other work. I still have a small patch to fabricate on the lower right corner of the tail. Donor patch didn't quite cover that area.

The donor patch for the floor had some pitting at the rear edge under the seam sealer. It's still solid metal but caused a bit of bubbling on some of the plug welds. But it is attached solidly and the welds will be ground down and buried under seam sealer when all is done anyway. After applying epoxy primer, I'll smooth the pitted areas with a thin layer of FG reinforced filler. For now, I brushed on a coat of Jasco to convert any lingering rust left after blasting with crushed glass.

Unfortunately, I have to leave town for a week so won't be able to grind the butt weld to see the final project until I return. But it feels good to having the junk in the trunks almost taken care of. Getting closer to ordering some RD steel and diving into those longs.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 10 2017, 06:33 PM

Man, that's a lot of inches of seam welding you've done on your car. Looks really good! aktion035.gif
I've been holding off on a similar repair I need to do to my rear panel and you're motivating me to get after it!
Keep up the great work (and the pics) and continued success on your build. smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 10 2017, 07:36 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 10 2017, 06:33 PM) *

Man, that's a lot of inches of seam welding you've done on your car. Looks really good! aktion035.gif
I've been holding off on a similar repair I need to do to my rear panel and you're motivating me to get after it!
Keep up the great work (and the pics) and continued success on your build. smilie_pokal.gif


Thanks. I think we are inspiring each other because I've been following your build. When I have to fab pieces for my longs and floor, I hope they turn out half as good as yours. beer.gif

A better picture would reveal that there are a few spots on that seam that look like a bird took a post-2-1117899824.gif, but not too many. I really struggled over where to make that seam. I wanted to hide it under the center support channel but that looked like it would get involved with the transmission mounts and other stuff. In the end, I'm happy with where things sit. But I was nervous as hell about it. The nice thing about a monster butt joint like this is that there is a lot of real estate to move your tack welds around in and keep things cool. It still took a couple hours of "tack - tack - tack - wait...." though.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 10 2017, 12:59 PM

Overdue for an update again.

As usual, I like to divide time between rustoring the chassis and a more fiddly task I can do while relaxing on the couch, staring at the idiot box. This time, it was re-keying the door locks. I ran into a problem with the pass side door handle when the http://garage.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=313066. Probably as a result of trying to get that handle off, I found a hairline crack where the hinge arch meets the mounting tab.

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I knew that would bite me in the butt eventually so decided to attempt a solder repair with a propane torch to reinforce the crack to maybe by some time. I figured the handle was toast otherwise so nothing to lose. The repair actually went well and I think I had it... But then I decided to touch it up just a little better... headbang.gif I wound up blowing out a chunk of the hinge arch with the torch. It didn't blow all the way through, but enough to weaken the piece. Undeterred, I decided to experiment with the limits of cheap pot metal repair. So I melted on a big glob of silver solder and then ground and shaped it back to it original form.

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Amazingly, that seemed to actually work! I reassembled the handle with spring and reefed on it a bit to see if it would hold. It did! And then I noticed that the hole on the repaired side was ever so slightly misaligned so the gap with the flapper tapered a tiny bit... like maybe 1/64". I stewed on it awhile and decided I couldn't live with that. So I decided to touch it up to make it perfect. headbang.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif fyou1.gif

And here is the result:

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I cry Uncle! If anyone has a handle with a busted flapper but good base they would like to sell.... pray.gif

Anyway, rekeying the locks was a piece of cake. Dan (a.k.a. Tweet) set me up with new tumblers. He actually went way beyond what I expected to get this done with minimum cost. Dan also sold me a nice ignition lock to replace the VW part that I had on the car, and a new key blank that I will have cut to code. Now I have all of my locks working with the original key for this car (glove box lock not shown because it already fit the key so I didn't mess with it). The frunk handle was also refreshed with a new coat of paint.

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Going to hell.

Back on the car, it was time to dig into the hell hole. This is the make or break moment for the project. I had peeked inside with a fiber optic scope before, so there were no real surprises when I opened up the long. It's bad.

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And still bad after a bit of cleanup.

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After gaining insight and inspiration from many previous build threads, my plan is to rebuild the inner wheel well and lower section of inner long with fabbed parts and button up the outside with RD pieces. I believe I can do this without removing that outer suspension console.

I started with the top of the inner long in the wheel well by fabbing a patch made out of one of the sail panels I previously removed for replacement. Before this project, I didn't even know what a metal shrinker and stretcher was. This was my first attempt using one. I like these tools!

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I carefully gut away just the top layer to keep the inner double layer intact. After cutting around the perimeter with a dremel and cutoff wheel, the layers were easily separated with an air chisel. I drilled the inner wall for rosette welding to the new patch. This should provide a strong reinforcement to the patch. Many thanks to Cary for pointing out the U-Pol copper rich weld through primer! smilie_pokal.gif I had been using Eastwood's self-etching weld-thru and hate it. This copper stuff is fantastic.

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Then it was just a matter of clamping the patch in place and welding it up.

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While I was there, I decided to patch the rust on the firewall.

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I fabbed a couple patches from the other sail panel. So far, all the patches in this car have been made either from metal removed elsewhere on the car, or from unused portions of donor parts from other 914s. For some reason, I think that's kind of cool. The upper piece was my first complex bend on this project. I'm happy with how it turned out and this gave me confidence going forward. Here are the patches loose before cutting out the rust.

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And here they are, welded in with just a little more grinding to go. I had one spot that blew through over the bend at the lower right of the upper section. I lost the definition of that bend repairing the blowout and the location of the rear engine shelf made it impossible to get a dolly behind to bump the crease back in. So I tried my hand at using body solder. My hat is off to anyone who has the skill to use this stuff pray.gif I don't! In the end, I did get the bend somewhat redefined but couldn't get the solder to feather out the way I'd like. You can see my botched solder job just above where the pinch seam runs diagonal.

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I'm still having trouble with that sunken edge around the welds preventing me from being able to grind the weld smooth without grinding away parent material. Do I need to increase my wire speed to get more fill in there? Structurally, it is sound, but it would be nice for all those welds to disappear without using filler.

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And here it is with a temporary coat of primer. Not perfect, but not bad. I think it will look perfect with a very thin skim of FG reinforced filler. The dark spot is wet paint - not a dent. That weld bead in the pinch seam looks worse in these pics. But I think I'll hit it with the grinder anyway.


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That's how it looks today. Next up is rebuilding the lower part of both layers of that inner wheel well.


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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 10 2017, 01:29 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 10 2017, 11:59 AM) *

I'm still having trouble with that sunken edge around the welds preventing me from being able to grind the weld smooth without grinding away parent material. Do I need to increase my wire speed to get more fill in there? Structurally, it is sound, but it would be nice for all those welds to disappear without using filler.


I think you're running into the heat shrinkage causing the "dip" that prevents you getting at the entire weld bead. If you were gas welding or even TIG, you could hammer and dolly to stretch it back to flat.

With MIG, about all I found that works better is going REALLY slowly. Like: one tack, hit it with compressed air until it's cool, next tack, cool, repeat until you're ready to kill yourself... or accept the fact that it's going to be under the back pad and no one will ever see it.

That said, I have the same "but I'll know it's there" problem and I agonize over every bit where you can tell it's been repaired.

BTW, that complex patch piece you made looks fantastic! Nice fab work.
Chris

Posted by: burton73 Aug 10 2017, 01:42 PM

Brock,

You really are doing a great job on restoring you car. I have fear that a lot of people do bad jobs on welding their cars and that there are a lot of cars that the owners say they are restored but in fact they really are crap.

You should be very proud of bringing back you car that has great memories for you.

Bob B


welder.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 10 2017, 02:50 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 10 2017, 01:29 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 10 2017, 11:59 AM) *

I'm still having trouble with that sunken edge around the welds preventing me from being able to grind the weld smooth without grinding away parent material. Do I need to increase my wire speed to get more fill in there? Structurally, it is sound, but it would be nice for all those welds to disappear without using filler.


I think you're running into the heat shrinkage causing the "dip" that prevents you getting at the entire weld bead. If you were gas welding or even TIG, you could hammer and dolly to stretch it back to flat.

With MIG, about all I found that works better is going REALLY slowly. Like: one tack, hit it with compressed air until it's cool, next tack, cool, repeat until you're ready to kill yourself... or accept the fact that it's going to be under the back pad and no one will ever see it.

That said, I have the same "but I'll know it's there" problem and I agonize over every bit where you can tell it's been repaired.

BTW, that complex patch piece you made looks fantastic! Nice fab work.
Chris


Thanks for the tips Chris. I think you are exactly right about what happened on the welds here. My usual method is even more painful. I typically put in just a few tacks spread out around the patch and then walk away and let things cool down slowly thinking that a slow cool will be less brittle than if I rush it. I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

But because of all the bends in this panel, I wasn't quite as worried about warping so I got cocky and tried throwing down three or four tacks in a row and then let it cool. Looking back, where I did that is exactly the spot I showed. Your post helped me think it through. I have yet to grind the long seam in the rear trunk and that one was tacked very slowly. It will be interesting to see how it finishes.

QUOTE(burton73 @ Aug 10 2017, 01:42 PM) *

Brock,

You really are doing a great job on restoring you car. I have fear that a lot of people do bad jobs on welding their cars and that there are a lot of cars that the owners say they are restored but in fact they really are crap.

You should be very proud of bringing back you car that has great memories for you.

Bob B


welder.gif


Thanks Bob, you have no idea how good that is to hear. I know what you mean about crappy welding on restorations. The engine compartment side of the hell hole has a bunch of really bad welding that needs to be cut out and redone. But the thing is, that crappy welder was me 30+ years ago. yikes.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 10 2017, 09:25 PM

Well Bummer.

Since my rear trunk lid is not repairable, I decided to salvage the skin off of it thinking I could use it to fabricate patches for elsewhere on the car. I thought I had read that all the sheet metal on a 914 is 19 gauge but I must be mistaken. I cleaned up the nice sheet I got from my deck lid and threw a thickness gauge on it. 20 ga. dammit! mad.gif I checked around the car to make sure my gauge was correct and discovered that all of the structural stuff is 19ga. but the body skins are 20. I think that's too thin for fabbing inner long patches so I guess I'm off to buy a sheet of 18ga tomorrow. And here I was feeling smug about the idea of creating all my patches from metal salvaged elsewhere on the car. Oh well, I can still use the lid for some door skin patches at least.

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Posted by: xperu Aug 10 2017, 09:33 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 29 2017, 12:10 AM) *

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 28 2017, 07:59 PM) *

By chance is Kelly Seevers one of your neighbors? He lives up one of those canyons. Old friend from Albertsons.


Amazing! Yes he is. Just around the bend. I don't really know him, but neighbors speak highly of the whole family. They are tucked up in "the holler" on Goes Nowhere Road which is aptly named. You'd probably be able to see their house in some of the photos I posted if you cut down the trees.

The roller problem is the whole reason I've put this off for so long. Winds can be wicked in this canyon so awnings would have to be built hell for stout. And my MIG is worthless outside because it is rarely calm enough not to blow the shielding gas away. I picked up a set of http://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-pneumatic-heavy-duty-caster-61450.html at HF to handle rolling on gravel. Snooping the Web, it seems others have made these work. I will know soon enough as I plan to pick up tubing for the jig this week. I can leave the car in the garage for the time it takes to complete the long work. I think the rest can go in and out as needed. Worst case, I may have to throw up a temporary shed around he car in the drive. But I'll try this first. Ideally I would wait on this project until I had built another garage/shop. But the longer I let this car sit, the more expensive the project gets. So I will muddle forward as best I can.

Are you near Noxen, my brother lives there. He is into model A Fords

Posted by: xperu Aug 10 2017, 09:33 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 29 2017, 12:10 AM) *

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 28 2017, 07:59 PM) *

By chance is Kelly Seevers one of your neighbors? He lives up one of those canyons. Old friend from Albertsons.


Amazing! Yes he is. Just around the bend. I don't really know him, but neighbors speak highly of the whole family. They are tucked up in "the holler" on Goes Nowhere Road which is aptly named. You'd probably be able to see their house in some of the photos I posted if you cut down the trees.

The roller problem is the whole reason I've put this off for so long. Winds can be wicked in this canyon so awnings would have to be built hell for stout. And my MIG is worthless outside because it is rarely calm enough not to blow the shielding gas away. I picked up a set of http://www.harborfreight.com/10-in-pneumatic-heavy-duty-caster-61450.html at HF to handle rolling on gravel. Snooping the Web, it seems others have made these work. I will know soon enough as I plan to pick up tubing for the jig this week. I can leave the car in the garage for the time it takes to complete the long work. I think the rest can go in and out as needed. Worst case, I may have to throw up a temporary shed around he car in the drive. But I'll try this first. Ideally I would wait on this project until I had built another garage/shop. But the longer I let this car sit, the more expensive the project gets. So I will muddle forward as best I can.

Are you near Noxon, my brother lives there. He is into model A Fords

Posted by: bbrock Aug 10 2017, 09:44 PM

QUOTE(xperu @ Aug 10 2017, 09:33 PM) *

Are you near Noxon, my brother lives there. He is into model A Fords


Nice country up there. But no, I'm way down south in Bozeman.

Posted by: mbseto Aug 11 2017, 06:36 AM

Nice fab work, and great progress. This is a fun project to watch.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 11 2017, 08:12 AM

I really enjoy reading this thread but hadn't kept up to date. Today I chuckled while reading your experience with HF tires/swivel rollers. BTDT. Wish I could have waved you off that experience. If you load up one of those hard rubber tires the wheel will separate because there is no carry thru sleeve/bushing. Liked your space solution. Rolling her in and out is a perfect solution. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 11 2017, 09:12 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 11 2017, 08:12 AM) *

Today I chuckled while reading your experience with HF tires/swivel rollers. BTDT. Wish I could have waved you off that experience.


lol-2.gif Someone did try to wave me off but I was already in it. Actually, now that I have some plywood down over the gravel under the tent, they are working pretty well. As long as the car stays fairly level without side loading, they seem to do their job. But I learned that lesson when the left front solid tire tore clean off as I tried to wheel the car around on the gravel. I swapped a pneumatic tire back in on that corner which, on the smoother surface, rolls just as well as the solid tires. So if I sheer any more rubber off, I'll just continue to swap back the pneumatics. Cheap is cheap, but they are getting the job done so far. cheer.gif Wheeling the car in and out is a simple one-man operation.

Brent

Posted by: Fatboy007 Aug 11 2017, 09:35 AM

What an inspiration. Take your time and enjoy the process. And here i am complaining about my emergency brake cable sunglasses.gif

Posted by: cary Aug 11 2017, 03:03 PM

I've been too busy to keep up.
I'm with Chris, thems are some nice fabrication skills.
Beautiful pieces.
Attached Image

Ditto on the tip Chris gave you. Slow and steady wins the race. I'm actually using an IR temp gun to check the metal before the next weld. On a stitch like that, 3 blips. Stop and let it cool. I know its hard to stop ................

Keep up the good work

Posted by: bbrock Aug 14 2017, 02:42 PM

Saturday Aug. 12, 2017

Spent the day cleaning up the mess from my previous inner suspension console repair over 30 years ago.

[attachmentid=616118]

Boy did I not know what I was doing. barf.gif I didn't completely remove the flanges of the original console and welded the new one over the top with globs of filler. Then I slathered a pound of bondo around to pretend that the welding (it was my first welding project) didn't look like stromberg.gif Terrible workmanship. But I can't be too hard on myself. Crappy or not, for less than $150 and two weekends, I was able to turn my $500 car purchase into an acceptable looking, and very driveable '73 2.0L that gave me many, many, pleasurable miles of driving. Given the crappy workmanship, I wasn't too surprised to find a nest of tinworms lurking under the console that looks like had migrated to the outer console.

Attached Image

I already knew the engine mount was toast, so purchased a donor part from KevinW and he was generous enough to include both inner and outer suspension consoles with the part. I was hoping to not have to mess with the outer console but it is a mixed bag. I was already planning on getting an RD inner wheel house piece to patch that area and using the full patch makes some sense. So it doesn't affect the project budge which is always a plus. piratenanner.gif But it complicates the project because I'll have to figure out an alternative way to support the car while I do the repair and make sure the console goes back in the right spot. Anyway, I got the inner long mostly cleaned off.

Attached Image

Then decided I had better stop because the amount of steel left for structure on that side of the car was starting to make me nervous. I added an additional support under the rear shock tower just for extra measure. That's a copy of Jeff Hail's suspension dimensions taped to the quarter panel.

Attached Image

The Hell Hole

My pleasure cruise inside the engine compartment gave me plenty of time to ponder the origin of the name "Hell Hole." It seems obvious. This is the part that rots to either send 914s to their grave, or drain the wallets of poor suckers who try to save them. But a day in the pit got me thinking of some alternative reasons:

  1. The general area contains some of the most pleasant parts to work on - like that f@#$ing little cone screw in the shift linkage, or those a$$ cannons of trunk torsion bars waiting to shatter a thumb. After working on any of those goodies, you might think you were in hell. stfu.gif hissyfit.gif
  2. or maybe it is because after an hour or two of bumping your head on hard edges and having your back stabbed repeatedly by sharp, pointy things, you will have sworn enough oaths against god to be condemned to hell. devil.gif
  3. or maybe it is because any grinding that takes place in there will send a shower of sparks bouncing off walls, into the air, and down the back or your neck or any other gap in your clothing; reminding one of the inferno of hell. boid.gif
  4. Possibly the name is apt simply because for the umpteenthed time you say, "oh hell, I left the [insert tool of the moment here] over there out of reach. I have to climb out of this hole yet again to get it." headbang.gif

Sunday Aug. 13, 2017
Now things are getting interesting

I decided it would be wise to start putting some metal back in before taking more out so I spent the last of Saturday night and most of Sunday experimenting with ways to fabricate new lower sections for the inner long. My last act of Saturday night was to attempt bending a 30" section of 18g sheet in my cheap HF bending brake. It worked well with lighter stuff or small pieces, but this pushed it to its limit and there was a "pop" as one of the crappy welds broke on the bar reinforcement that allowed the movable back piece to flex and ruin the bend. No biggie, I knew it was a cheap POS and it was easy to start Sunday by grinding off the bad weld and redoing it.

The bottoms of the inner longs are not simple bends. There is a radius bend from the sidewall to bottom and a half channel bead that runs lengthwise along the inner edge to stiffing the part and form a recess the floor is spot welded into. There are also channel beads spaced along the outer edge running perpendicular from the inner bead to the outer welding flange. Just to make things interesting, the depth of the beads are about twice as deep in the front third of the long as they in the rest, and there is a ramp transition between the two depths along the inner half channel. It would be a perfect job for a bead roller with offset tipping wheel (or so it appears from my Google research). But I don't have those and can't justify the expense. Luckily, Rich Casto made a nearly identical repair with limited tools so I stole ideas from him.

Here's what I came up with. Bending the radius was pretty straightforward using Rich's method of welding a piece of round stock to a bar of metal and sandwiching it in the brake for a bending form.

Attached Image

Likewise, I used Rich's hammer form method for banging in the channels but used a little different form design. I just welded 1" wide bars of flat stock of two different depths (1/8" and 1/4") to a strip of 6" wide x 3/16" flat stock to create a form to hammer the channel.

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For the side stub channels, I just welded a couple of tees of the same bar stock to create forms for each depth. I then ground.... and ground.... and ground to tapper the stub form down as it approaches the welding flange. This matches the factory piece.

Attached Image

There was a lot of trial and error figuring out the right sequence and hammer form technique. I tried a number of things on the channel, including creating negative mirror image forms for pressing the metal with clamps. But that didn't work, 18g is too stubborn for that. In the end, I found a BFH with brick set chisel as corking tool worked best. The chisel leaves more tool marks than I would like but I tried a piece of oak which didn't work, and I didn't have any rock maple on hand to make a corking tool with. Next time I'm in town, I'll pick some up and try it.

The method I settled on is this:
  1. Bend the side wall and floor using radius form in the brake.
  2. Hammer in long channel with BFH and chisel.
  3. Form welding flange with plastic hammer and a vice. This helps to secure the piece on the form for the next step.
  4. Hammer in stub channels.
  5. Planish out dings and marks with body hammer and dolly as needed.

Attached Image

Here are the test pieces I made. These are a bit rough because they have been bent, flattened, and re-bent a few times as I worked out my technique.

Attached Image

I had just enough time left in the day to start working on an actual piece. I started with the more difficult front piece that includes channels of both depths and the transition in between. I got as far as forming the welding flange. Tonight I will work on the stub channels.

Here is the result so far. It will need a bit of hammer and dolly to smooth out those dings, but I'm not sure how much effort it will be worth since one side will be inside the long, hopefully never to be seen again at least until after I am dead, and the other side will be covered with undercoating. I didn't roll the flange all the way to the front because I'll need to do a final trim and hammer the flange to match the curve where the long meets the wheel well.

Attached Image

And here is the bottom.

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Posted by: euro911 Aug 14 2017, 03:42 PM

My fist time seeing your thread, Brent (?) - read it from start to current status this afternoon (when I should have been working on my car - lol)

Awesome undertaking and total dedication to achieving your dream car. Truly inspirational beerchug.gif

Subscribed


Posted by: tygaboy Aug 14 2017, 04:18 PM

Fab-iddy, fab, fabulous fabbing! smash.gif Looks great.
I'm sure you've seen and heard it all before but it bears repeating:
Brace the bejeezus out of the chassis and go slow when you install all that long bracing.
Following closely so keep the great work coming! aktion035.gif

Posted by: euro911 Aug 14 2017, 04:47 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 15 2017, 10:21 PM) *
QUOTE(burton73 @ May 15 2017, 01:28 PM) *
Pelican sells them. I had the one on my 86 Carrera go bad. 70,000 miles and it just breaks from the I guess the grease on the gear breaking down the plastic over the years. I sent mine out to fix but you can do this yourself. They can send you the small parts by mail.

Bob B
Thanks. I'm putting together a Pelican order anyway. Is the http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&make=POR&description=ODO-PORM17 what I'm after?
On the speedos I've torn apart, there's a fixed-wheel on the right hand side on the ODO cluster shaft that starts to spin. It needs to be modified to fit back on the shaft tightly so it doesn't spin. The gear shown in your Pelican link is on the left hand side of the ODO shaft. You can check it, but I think the right hand side is where you'll find the problem.

I recently posted how I fixed some years ago ... here's the link: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=312297&st=0&p=2500537&#entry2500537

Posted by: bbrock Aug 14 2017, 04:54 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Aug 14 2017, 04:47 PM) *

]On the speedos I've torn apart, there's a fixed-wheel on the right hand side on the ODO cluster shaft that starts to spin. It needs to be modified to fit back on the shaft tightly so it doesn't spin. The gear shown in your Pelican link is on the left hand side of the ODO shaft. You can check it, but I think the right hand side is where you'll find the problem.

I recently posted how I fixed some years ago ... here's the link: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=312297&st=0&p=2500537&#entry2500537


Thanks Mark. Yeah, we figured out that the 911 gear didn't apply here. I wound up using the pinch method on the pot metal gear and all seems to be working now. But now I wish I had gone farther and put loktite on that gear. We'll see how long it lasts. May have to go in there again some day. At least it is an easy part to get out of the car! beer.gif

Brent

Posted by: bbrock Aug 14 2017, 05:23 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 14 2017, 04:18 PM) *

Fab-iddy, fab, fabulous fabbing! smash.gif Looks great.
I'm sure you've seen and heard it all before but it bears repeating:
Brace the bejeezus out of the chassis and go slow when you install all that long bracing.
Following closely so keep the great work coming! aktion035.gif


Yes! And this is a good opportunity to revisit this. Early in the thread, I asked for some input on my bracing: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=307290&view=findpost&p=2476431 but didn't get any response.

In the pre-Internet days, I replaced an outer long on my wife's '73 1.7L. I didn't have much guidance except a VW-Porsche article just mentioning to weld in a brace across the door opening. So I welded a half inch iron pipe horizontally across the door opening and called it good. I didn't understand anything about shrinking and probably pre-loaded the door opening to close a little as soon as I cut out the old long. Then I installed the outer long using WAY too much heat - just pile drove my way through. screwy.gif Surprise, surprise, the door wouldn't shut when I was done. I had to grind the striker to make it work. headbang.gif So not only am I aware, but I've actually made that mistake!

So for the bracing... I followed Cary's lead to do the doors-on bracing so I can watch my gaps as I work. I've got the adjustable braces running from upper seat belt mount to under the speaker area. With the door on, I can easily adjust the door gaps with the turnbuckle. But that mostly affects the top part of the gap. I'm wondering if I should run another adjustable brace from the lower mount of the diagonal to back in the vicinity of where the lower seat belt mount would be if I still had one. Seems like that would allow me to pre-load that inner long with a bit of outward (stretching) force to fight any shrinkage as the welds cool.

Also, my preference would be to get a long 4x4 or similar pushed up under that long to provide even support from the bottom to help keep things straight. But there is nothing left there to support. I'm thinking I just need to watch my measurements and door gaps as I work and let that guide me. Thoughts?

One nice thing is that I work at home so it is easy for me to run downstairs every couple hours and throw a few tack welds in. I'm thinking on that length, four spaced out tacks and walk away. I plan to spend a good week of that before the seam is closed. welder.gif

Posted by: burton73 Aug 14 2017, 05:36 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 14 2017, 04:23 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 14 2017, 04:18 PM) *

Fab-iddy, fab, fabulous fabbing! smash.gif Looks great.
I'm sure you've seen and heard it all before but it bears repeating:
Brace the bejeezus out of the chassis and go slow when you install all that long bracing.
Following closely so keep the great work coming! aktion035.gif


Yes! And this is a good opportunity to revisit this. Early in the thread, I asked for some input on my bracing: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=307290&view=findpost&p=2476431 but didn't get any response.

In the pre-Internet days, I replaced an outer long on my wife's '73 1.7L. I didn't have much guidance except a VW-Porsche article just mentioning to weld in a brace across the door opening. So I welded a half inch iron pipe horizontally across the door opening and called it good. I didn't understand anything about shrinking and probably pre-loaded the door opening to close a little as soon as I cut out the old long. Then I installed the outer long using WAY too much heat - just pile drove my way through. screwy.gif Surprise, surprise, the door wouldn't shut when I was done. I had to grind the striker to make it work. headbang.gif So not only am I aware, but I've actually made that mistake!

So for the bracing... I followed Cary's lead to do the doors-on bracing so I can watch my gaps as I work. I've got the adjustable braces running from upper seat belt mount to under the speaker area. With the door on, I can easily adjust the door gaps with the turnbuckle. But that mostly affects the top part of the gap. I'm wondering if I should run another adjustable brace from the lower mount of the diagonal to back in the vicinity of where the lower seat belt mount would be if I still had one. Seems like that would allow me to pre-load that inner long with a bit of outward (stretching) force to fight any shrinkage as the welds cool.

Also, my preference would be to get a long 4x4 or similar pushed up under that long to provide even support from the bottom to help keep things straight. But there is nothing left there to support. I'm thinking I just need to watch my measurements and door gaps as I work and let that guide me. Thoughts?

One nice thing is that I work at home so it is easy for me to run downstairs every couple hours and throw a few tack welds in. I'm thinking on that length, four spaced out tacks and walk away. I plan to spend a good week of that before the seam is closed. welder.gif



As long as you do it very slow. (Butt slow) like you say you are, will. You have a good chance it will be fine. You are doing great on your baby so far.

Bob B

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2017, 11:05 AM

August 16, 2017 - More fabbing

Not much progress the last couple of days. I realized that before I finish up that front lower long piece, I should fab the patch where the lower front wheel well wraps around to extend into the long.

Attached Image

Rich Casto also made this piece but didn't provide details on how it was done. Last night I took my first stab at it on a piece of scrap. I made another radius bending form using a larger diameter rod to match the bottom radius of the fender and bent the piece in the brake. That worked pretty well.

Attached Image

Next I spent an hour wearing my arm out on the shrinker to form the vertical radius. This really tested the limits of that little shrinker but kind of worked. As you shrink, the material widens on the flange side so I had to stop and grind that back a couple times so the piece would still fit in the throat of the shrinker.

Attached Image

I actually overdid it and had to stretch it back a little. I wasn't surprised that the edge that would become the weld flange split when I did that. The biggest problem here is that as the piece was shrunk to bend, the bottom radius narrowed and became more crisp at the bend.

Attached Image

I experimented with using the radius brake form as a stake dolly and banging the more gentle radus back out. This will work, but I need a better stake dolly to get a smooth finish. Sorry about the blurry pic.

Attached Image

I went ahead and bent the flange down to see how it would fit. Not bad for just eyeballing the curve.

Attached Image

But I don't like that split and am not sure this is the right way to go.

Attached Image

I could patch the split up, but maybe there is a better way. Anyone have ideas? confused24.gif What I really need is a better selection of dollies, I think.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 16 2017, 11:20 AM

I think the way to avoid that is to make that part in 2 pieces:
- the "top" part with the lip tipped in
- the "bottom" part with its lip tipped out
- weld them together along the line

Or give a go to hammer forming it?
I just worked up a piece via hammer forming that included an inside corner and was surprised how well it turned out.

Hope this helps...
Chris


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2017, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 16 2017, 11:20 AM) *

I think the way to avoid that is to make that part in 2 pieces:
- the "top" part with the lip tipped in
- the "bottom" part with its lip tipped out
- weld them together along the line

Or give a go to hammer forming it?
I just worked up a piece via hammer forming that included an inside corner and was surprised how well it turned out.

Hope this helps...
Chris


Thanks. I thought about the 2-piece solution but wanted to try it in one first. I think hammer forming is the way to go but not sure what to use for a form. Thinking maybe bending a piece of that round stock and welding to a stake to clamp in the vice.

If I go 2-piece, I think I could move the weld line down to just where the radius goes flat before the flange bend. It should be easy to use the shrinker for smooth, match curves without that radius pulling in. Edit: I just looked again and that is exactly what you suggested! beer.gif I might play with that tonight. smash.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 22 2017, 10:39 AM

August 19, 2017 - No Progress

I had to work on Saturday so didn't get anything done on the car. Work consisted of hiking through places like this:

Attached Image

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And looking for things like this:

Attached Image

It's a rough job but somebody has to do it biggrin.gif

August 20, 2017 - Back in the shop

First I cut out the old lower section of the inner long.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Finished up the front lower section of the inner rocker. I picked up a hunk of maple to make this corking tool which also is good protection against vampires, and a cheap anvil from HF to provide something better to hammer on.

Attached Image

The maple with a BFH does a pretty good job of forming without leaving as many tool marks. My forms for the stub bead channels are a bit fiddly for getting the metal aligned and clamped properly. Luckily, precise location of these channels isn't important so one is off by as much as 1/8" from the original. If I did this again, I'd make the forms as negatives like http://motorsport.zyyz.com/project_914_03_04.htm That might be easier. It took a full day, but I managed to get the job done.

Attached Image

The hardest part was trimming and forming that curved flange at the front. There wasn't enough left of my original to provide a good template, so I had to flip the piece over and match it to the driver's side to create a mirror image. I hit it lightly with an 80 grit disc on a 3" angel grinder to knock off some of the tool marks. That also made it too shiny to get a good picture.

Before removing the old, rusted section, I made a couple of witness blocks to make sure I could install the new piece at the right height.

Attached Image

This made trimming and fitting the piece much easier.

Attached Image

Attached Image

August 21, 2017 - Made rear section of inner long

Last night I was able to bang out the rear section of the lower inner long. It only took about an hour and a half thanks to a combination of experience from the first piece, not having to deal with two channel depths, and not having a curved flange section to hammer out. I didn't have enough left of the original to know how many, or where, the stub channels were located along the rear. I just assumed they were evenly spaced along the length. It looks like the piece will be trimmed in front of the last one, so that was a bit of wasted effort. I even had time to weld it to the front piece. Here it is, loose laid in place.

Attached Image

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Hopefully tonight, I'll have to make the final trim and fitment, and get the first few tacks in place.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 22 2017, 12:22 PM

Man, I'm in awe of you guys who cut out such major sections of your cars!
Nothing but w00t.gif and pray.gif

Great work, love the metal shaping you're doing. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how hard/not hard it's been for you to get the results you're happy with.

Maybe I'm getting lucky but so far (knock wood/I'll take it!) but, I'm finding the fabrication goes pretty well. Some forethought and maybe a practice piece or two.

When I started my project just over a year ago, I happily confess I was a bit intimidated by the thought of trying to fit even a preformed replacement panel.

Sorry for the hijack, just curious to hear others' experiences. Again, great stuff and keep it coming. smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: mb911 Aug 22 2017, 01:30 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 22 2017, 10:22 AM) *

Man, I'm in awe of you guys who cut out such major sections of your cars!
Nothing but w00t.gif and pray.gif

Great work, love the metal shaping you're doing. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how hard/not hard it's been for you to get the results you're happy with.

Maybe I'm getting lucky but so far (knock wood/I'll take it!) but, I'm finding the fabrication goes pretty well. Some forethought and maybe a practice piece or two.

When I started my project just over a year ago, I happily confess I was a bit intimidated by the thought of trying to fit even a preformed replacement panel.

Sorry for the hijack, just curious to hear others' experiences. Again, great stuff and keep it coming. smilie_pokal.gif

agree.gif

But I also do those kind of projects as it becomes very rewarding.. Attached Image

Here is Chris donation to my project ..

Keep up the great work.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 22 2017, 02:09 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 22 2017, 12:22 PM) *

Man, I'm in awe of you guys who cut out such major sections of your cars!
Nothing but w00t.gif and pray.gif

Great work, love the metal shaping you're doing. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how hard/not hard it's been for you to get the results you're happy with.

Maybe I'm getting lucky but so far (knock wood/I'll take it!) but, I'm finding the fabrication goes pretty well. Some forethought and maybe a practice piece or two.

When I started my project just over a year ago, I happily confess I was a bit intimidated by the thought of trying to fit even a preformed replacement panel.

Sorry for the hijack, just curious to hear others' experiences. Again, great stuff and keep it coming. smilie_pokal.gif


Ha! Great minds. Amazing to hear this from you because your fabrication has been a real inspiration. It looks like you've been doing it for years. I've thought about this a lot the past few days and almost added a paragraph in my update, but decided to spare everyone my philosophizing. But since you ask...

I've been a woodworker since I was a kid and have always been somewhat intimidated by metal work. I've done a few small projects with good results, but always kept them simple. This project has been a bit of an eye opener. I don't want to offend anyone, but in many respects, I'm finding metal working much easier than wood. Not that I don't think metalworking requires insane skills that I still don't possess, but metal, as a material, is more forgiving than wood in some important ways. Wood has to be cut and dimensioned with great precision, and good joinery requires relatively complex lock and key type configurations (dovetails, mortise and tenon, finger joints, what have you). 1/64" can make or break the work. Metal can be bent, stretched, and shrunk within limits and the welder is a marvel for joinery. Again, I'm not pretending I possess the skills of the real pros, but as a neophyte novice metal shaper, I feel I'm producing far more satisfactory results than I was at a similar level of experience woodworking. Of course, I'm also bringing some of that woodworking experience over to metal so it isn't completely a fair comparison. But you get the point, and it has been a real pleasure to discover that the story on a piece of steel isn't dictated so much by the cutting. So, overall, I'm very surprised how accessible metal fabrication is, even for someone with a cramped shop and rather paltry assortment of tools.

Is it worth it? That's a pretty easy one that I have also ruminated on. Inner longs run about $300 per side new and I need to do both sides. I have about $10 worth of sheet metal in my passenger side so just in terms of $, it is well worth several days building forms, wracking the brain to figure out the steps to make the piece, and wearing your arm out with a hammer. Maybe more important, completely removing and replacing those longs would be a LOT more complicated and fraught with danger than leaving the top of the structure in place while the rusty bits are repaired.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 22 2017, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Aug 22 2017, 01:30 PM) *

agree.gif

But I also do those kind of projects as it becomes very rewarding.. Attached Image

Here is Chris donation to my project ..

Keep up the great work.


Awesome! I'll be tackling that in the future. Nice work! smash.gif

Posted by: LowBridge Aug 22 2017, 02:33 PM

what a great read and you really do remember the picture taking part, I always forget to take them along the way.

Super job and keep us posted... beerchug.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 22 2017, 02:42 PM

Thanks for sharing!

It's all so funny/interesting. I've not worked with wood but I've always had beliefs like "heck, how hard can wood working be? You can do it with wimpy little tools that don't cost very much (e.g. wood lathe vs metal lathe), etc, etc."

Shows how little I know. I appreciate gaining a new perspective!

When people compliment my work, inside, I'm thinking, "man, if I can figure it out, anyone can." Not that I don't appreciate the kind words. I do.

Lesson learned for me about all things in life is: Come on people! Jump in and give it a go. With a bit of practice, I bet you'll be surprised at how well you do.

OK, back to work...

Posted by: bbrock Aug 22 2017, 04:35 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 22 2017, 02:42 PM) *

Thanks for sharing!

It's all so funny/interesting. I've not worked with wood but I've always had beliefs like "heck, how hard can wood working be? You can do it with wimpy little tools that don't cost very much (e.g. wood lathe vs metal lathe), etc, etc."

Shows how little I know. I appreciate gaining a new perspective!


There's some truth to that. But now we are getting outside of metal shaping and into machining. I think in many ways, machining and woodworking are more similar except one is with harder material that requires more expensive toys. And the need for precision down to 1/1000s with machining metal. Still, a good table saw will run in the $2K-$4K range, so it isn't chump change. And there don't seem to be many less expensive, weekend warrior, grade tools for setting up a home machine shop. Sheet metal shaping seems more comparable to woodworking in terms of tool requirements. You can accomplish a lot with simple hand tools, and there is a variety of price points for tools to fit budgets and skill. A few months ago, I thought to do quality work would require an expensive sheer, box brake, and all of that. Not that those wouldn't be nice... drooley.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 23 2017, 07:56 AM

Got the bottom inner long trimmed and tacked in last night. Took an hour and a half to put that many tacks in. I'm relieved to be putting structure back in rather than taking it out.

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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 23 2017, 08:11 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 23 2017, 06:56 AM) *

...I'm relieved to be putting structure back in rather than taking it out.



Congrats on a major milestone! first.gif

It really made a difference for me mentally to know I'd made that U-turn. It's very satisfying to see it made whole again.

As others have said: Good on you for saving another of our little cars!


Posted by: bbrock Sep 12 2017, 10:41 AM

Well, I lost two weekends of work on the car to travel. First was a trip to Boulder, CO to attend our nephew's wedding. The following weekend, I drove out to Seattle over Labor Day weekend to see friends. I logged over 3,000 driving miles in just over a week. I did manage to finish welding and grinding the inner long in between trips, but only took this crappy pic before moving on.

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The day after my return, this arrived piratenanner.gif :

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Back at it

I didn't have a lot of time during the week, but managed to finish forming the front wheel well patch.

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And trimming the outer long panel.

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Just seeing that panel clamped on was a big psychological boost.

The rest of the operation is going to require a carefully choreographed dance. First, I'm being careful not to remove too much metal at once. So, I'm trying to cut out a bit and get it structurally sound before moving on to the next piece. As added insurance, I added support for the chassis under the firewall to keep things aligned when I eventually have to remove that outer suspension console. Second, I'm going to paint all the internals with a rattle can of Eastwood's epoxy primer. Once activated, it only has a 48 hour open time so I need to have my ducks in a row to be able to paint and install all the parts within that window.

Here are the planned dance steps:

  1. Repair rear section of inner long.
  2. Repair front section (heater tube and seat belt mount area) of corrugated inner wall in long using weld-thru primer.
  3. Weld in new seat belt mount
  4. Fab new heater tube brackets.
  5. Media blast heater tubes and hose clamps to prep for primer.
  6. Remove inner wheel well and repair rear section of inner layer of inner long.
  7. Treat all internals with phosphoric acid metal prep (Jasco).
  8. Primer inside of inner long, outer long, and inner wheel house.
  9. Install heater tubes.
  10. Weld in front wheel well patch and primer.
  11. Install heater hose.
  12. Weld on outer long panel.
  13. Weld on inner wheel house.
  14. Treat entire box with internal frame rust proofing.

Of course, all flanges and weld points will be sprayed with weld-thru primer and then top coated with epoxy after welding is complete.

The Big Challenge

It was time to dig into the rear inner long, which I think will be the hardest part of the entire rustoration. ohmy.gif Just to recap, here's what I was dealing with:

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I spent Friday evening and most of Saturday fabbing the patch for the inner long. Because I was missing so much of the piece, it took some thinking to get the piece right and I failed to take pics of the progress. I started by trimming a piece of 18ga. sheet to the horizontal contour of the lower inner wheel house flange using the RD repair panel as the template. Next, I hand hammered a flange along the contour and used the shrinker and stretcher to match the vertical contour and get the flanges to mate perfectly. Then I was able to clamp the patch to the flange remnants on the car and trace the inner edge of the inner long onto the patch. Then, it was over to the vice and anvil for bending and hammering to form the bottom and inside wall. I had to make a couple relief cuts at the bend in the front section because trying to get that much 18ga. metal to tuck was not possible. After a few hours of bending, testing, and reshaping, I had the piece fitting well enough to weld and grind the relief cuts. Finally, I banged in the divot needed to accept the engine mount with a ball peen hammer. The surface of the divot has a hammer texture, but it will all be hidden once the mount is installed. After final trimming, the part looked acceptable.

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And still mates nicely to the RD panel.

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What rust?

After welding and grinding, I now have a solid inner long for the first time since buying this car way back when Cindy Lauper was making me hate music. barf.gif

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I need to run the magic shrinking disk over a few bumps left from my previous suspension console patch job, but what a relief to have this done. cool_shades.gif It should be all downhill from here. lol-2.gif

Posted by: euro911 Sep 12 2017, 11:05 AM

thumb3d.gif


Cindy Lauper cheer.gif ... laugh.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 21 2017, 07:39 PM

I'm in between projects at work so was able to take a few days off to make some major progress on the Porsche. Things started moving pretty fast so I didn't do as well with taking pics of progress, but I think I captured the good stuff even if taken out of sequence.

914 Day - fiddly stuff

First up was fabbing this little patch for the rusty hole behind the door latch reinforcement. Easy peasy.

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Next was fabbing the front section of the inner long, inner wall and prepping the long for installation.

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Saturday Sept. 16

Fabricated a new bracket for the front heater tube and bead blasted both tubes and the spring steel mounting clamps for the heater hose. Patched some rust on the bottom of the door hinge post that will be rewelded over the new rocker and gave that a good bead blasting. Again, no pics, but many thanks to my awesome neighbor Rachel for lending me her blasting cabinet.

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Sunday Sept. 17

Welded in the front section of inner wall and a new seat belt mounting bolt from RD. Then I tackled the rear section of inner wall. This was mostly just the flat bottom part so no pics. Most of the day was spent trimming and fitting the inner wheelhouse piece from RD.

Late in the afternoon, all of the parts were ready for primer, so I activated a rattle can of Eastwood's epoxy primer and went to work prepping the long and assorted parts for final assembly. The heater hose mounting clamps got sprayed with Eastwood's rust encapsulator to give them a black finish to more closely match the original finish that looked like it might have been black zinc plating. Yep, I realize nobody will ever see those parts but I'm weird that way. screwy.gif

Here is the inner long with inner walls repaired, seat belt mount in place, and sealed with epoxy primer.

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Monday Sept. 18

I didn't have much time to work on the car, but managed to weld in the heater tubes and rivet in the hose clamps. I chose to use solid rivets to more closely match the factory parts. The only rivets I could locally source had considerably larger heads than the factory rivets, but I still think they look better than pop rivets. But they were a PIA to install compared with pop rivets. Again, I'm screwy that way. screwy.gif

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Lastly, I welded in the inner wheel well patch and sprayed with epoxy. Here is the inner long all assembled and ready to be buttoned up. Don't those black hose clamps look awesome? shades.gif

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Houston, we have a problem!

My last act of the day was to clamp the outer long on to see how things were fitting. Well shit. headbang.gif

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Tuesday Sept. 19

First order of business was to fix my screw up on that front inner wheel well piece. The old one was cut out and a new one made. This time, I decided to make it easy on myself and simply fab the straight section. It was bending the curve around the front of the long that caused the radius to narrow and not fit the outer long properly. The new plan is to fabricate the curved section as a separate piece after everything else is buttoned down. Leaving that patch for later will also give me easier access for spraying in cavity wax that I hope to pick up from my local paint supplier tomorrow. This new patch will do. smile.gif

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Spent the rest of the day rechecking measurements and tacking in the outer long and rear inner wheel house. Just enough to hold it in place to check final fitment but easy to remove if some adjustment was needed. The RD wheel house only needed some minor reshaping for perfect alignment. By the end of the day, it was starting to look like a car again. aktion035.gif I took this pic a little late, but here's how it looked.

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Thursday Sept. 21 - What Hell Hole? confused24.gif

With the main panels tacked in place, I screwed on the door jamb with zip screws and then bolted on the door to check the gap. Checked measurements again. Everything looked good.

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Time to weld things in place. welder.gif First was the outer long. I picked up this tool from Eastwood a few years ago and love it for rosette welds. Not only does the clamp hold flanges tightly together, but the copper backing lets me crank up the welder to max voltage for better penetration to the bottom layer.

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I did two rosettes spaced out on top, then two on the bottom; blowing with compressed air after each weld. I made sure everything stayed cool to the touch and checked the door gap after every set. It took a couple hours, but eventually was done. Next I tackled the long process of tacking up the butt weld on the wheel house. Again, just a few blips spaced out with air after each round. When all was finished, the door gap and measuresments were unchanged. monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif

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Not all is perfect though. The lower flange on part of the rear inner long will need some tuning to mate properly with the wheel house. I'm not surprised given the complex fabrication I had to do with a lot of the original piece missing. It isn't bad, but I think it will have to wait until I have the car on a rotisserie so I have better access to hammer things back into proper alignment. I'll just leave that portion unwelded until things can be made perfect. But it feels good to have this monumental part of the rustoration behind me! piratenanner.gif

Posted by: Bfstake Sep 21 2017, 08:21 PM

I enjoyed reading this, although some was painful to read. Good luck with your teener.

Posted by: burton73 Sep 21 2017, 09:12 PM

Brent,

You really are doing a super job on restoring your car. I wanted to point out something. I see you have a new floor pan. It is a nice touch to cut the circle and 3 tabs out on the pan and use your old or you can buy NOS inserts so your car will look just like it did when it came from the factory. A lot of guys do not do this but it is a nice touch.

I have seen some guys cut the hole with a circle saw but I did mine with a jigsaw and it went fine. This is my 6 from 6 years ago.

Bob B
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Posted by: bbrock Sep 21 2017, 09:31 PM

QUOTE(Bfstake @ Sep 21 2017, 08:21 PM) *

I enjoyed reading this, although some was painful to read. Good luck with your teener.

Thanks! Some of it has been painful to live. But its mostly self-inflicted. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 21 2017, 09:35 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Sep 21 2017, 09:12 PM) *

Brent,

You really are doing a super job on restoring your car. I wanted to point out something. I see you have a new floor pan. It is a nice touch to cut the circle and 3 tabs out on the pan and use your old or you can buy NOS inserts so your car will look just like it did when it came from the factory. A lot of guys do not do this but it is a nice touch.

I have seen some guys cut the hole with a circle saw but I did mine with a jigsaw and it went fine. This is my 6 from 6 years ago.

Bob B
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Sweet! Yes, I definitely plan to replace the inserts. Glad to hear they can still be found since at least one of mine isn't usable. Nice to see an example of this being done. Thanks for sharing! thumb3d.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 24 2017, 12:05 AM

Saturday Sept 23 - A little frustrating

Well, today was a mixed bag. Yesterday I sprayed the inside of the lower door hinge post with Jasco and let it soak over night. Rinsed it out this morning and ran the heat gun to dry things out. Made final prep to reattach the lower part of the post. It took longer than expected because I had to include a patch for the back side that is inside the wheel well. There is a lot going on inside that space and access is very tight. The patch slips in behind a flange from the fender and also has to be attached to the back of the hinge mount support inside the box. But I eventually got it in, but still need to grind down the ugly welds and fabricate an end bracket for the rocker cover.

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I saved that grinding for later though because I wanted to get the threshold on. I didn't go too nuts on grinding the weld around the front of the hinge post box since it will be buried under the threshold once it is attached. Here it is prepped with weld-thru primer and ready for the threshold.

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Putting on the threshold was going well until my welder took a shit and stopped feeding wire, which caused some crappy rosette welds that will require extra grinding.. After fiddling around for a half hour, I figured out the gun liner was toast. Luckily I had a spare that would work, but it took a good hour to get the old one out and the replacement in place. With the welder back in action, the threshold was looking really nice:

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With just a little more welding left on the threshold, I decided to install the brackets to make sure everything was proper. Then I hit a significant problem when the bracket didn't fit right. There is about a 2mm gap at the top and front of the upper step mad.gif

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WTF.gif I took the bracket over to the other side of the car to test it against an original threshold. Perfect fit. I checked the other three brackets, and they were all the same.

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I grabbed the trusty tape measure and discovered that the RD threshold piece is about 2mm deeper, and 2mm wider in the step compared with the original piece. I checked the dimensions of my driver's side RD threshold piece and it's also tall and wide. Yet the RD bracket fits the original profile perfectly. confused24.gif

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I sent a message with these pics to RD to figure out a path forward, but this wont do. I could fab my own brackets to fit, but I think that is going to put the outer rocker covers 2mm lower and 2mm farther out than they should be, which will throw off gaps and alignment. Has anyone else run into this problem? For now, I have abanidoned the threshold until I hear back from RD and moved on to the jack pyramids. Before installing them, I made a template of the recess in the mounting location because I'm pretty sure I'll need to fabricate a patch in that area on the other side.

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No real issues install the jack tube and plate except that my little 120v welder has a hard time with the thick steel of the tube, so the weld beads piled up like turkey shit around them. I did get a good stick though and will just have to dress those up a bit with the grinder. Overall, it came out pretty good but, of course, I need to knock those rosette welds down.

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That's it for today. I was hoping to weld on the door jamb but the threshold SNAFU put a halt to that.


Posted by: bbrock Sep 28 2017, 07:05 PM

In a jamb

Still plugging away on the project. Peter at RD got back to me right away about my threshold issue. He said they could retool to change the profile on the part, but it would be at least a full year before that could happen. But I figured out that the minor difference in profiles between the new RD threshold and the original wouldn't affect the final fit and alignment of the rocker covers. So I decided to move forward with what I had. This required a simple modification to the brackets to make them fit, but no biggie.

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With the thresholds finished, I welded in the door jamb and latch bracket, installed the latch,

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and checked the door gap. An even 7mm. Once the quarter panel is on, that should close up to ~4-5mm. And the door latches easily with that solid German clunk. clap56.gif

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Harvesting Organs

I've also been busy harvesting hell hole parts from a donor piece I bought last spring. Still some work to do but the hard part is done. Man those suspension consoles are a bitch to get off. mad.gif

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In theory, I should be able to just bolt the outer console to the dolly and it should be aligned correctly. But I'll be checking measurements just to be sure.

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It's starting to look like a car again. piratenanner.gif

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Posted by: BeatNavy Sep 28 2017, 07:44 PM

Wow, Brent. You are not wasting any time. Keep on rocking. Before you know it you'll be driving.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 28 2017, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(BeatNavy @ Sep 28 2017, 07:44 PM) *

Wow, Brent. You are not wasting any time. Keep on rocking. Before you know it you'll be driving.gif


Thanks Rob,

I was poring through your thread on the suspension console today gleaning tips on getting that placed right. I want to check against the factory alignment but that requires an M10x230mm bolt that I can't find locally. I have an idea to improvise though. I'm really paranoid about getting that bit right.

Sadly, I have a new work project starting next week which will mean less time to work on the car. But I have to pay for this insanity some how. biggrin.gif

Posted by: euro911 Sep 28 2017, 09:37 PM

Mad skills, for sure welder.gif


Just a suggestion ... I drill extra weep holes in bottom of the jack post supports idea.gif

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Posted by: bbrock Sep 28 2017, 09:46 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 28 2017, 09:37 PM) *

Mad skills, for sure welder.gif


Just a suggestion ... I drill extra weep holes in bottom of the jack post supports idea.gif

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Hard to see in this pic but I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom left of this one. Would you add more?

Posted by: euro911 Sep 28 2017, 09:53 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Sep 28 2017, 08:46 PM) *
QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 28 2017, 09:37 PM) *
Mad skills, for sure welder.gif


Just a suggestion ... I drill extra weep holes in bottom of the jack post supports idea.gif

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Hard to see in this pic but I drilled a 1/4" hole in the bottom left of this one. Would you add more?

Yeah, I put one in each lower corner, so no matter what attitude the car is parked in, it will drain better.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 28 2017, 10:02 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 28 2017, 09:53 PM) *

Yeah, I put one in each lower corner, so no matter what attitude the car is parked in, it will drain better.


That makes sense. I'll do it. I'm also going to shoot cavity wax in there and refresh it once a year or so.

Posted by: Millerwelds Sep 29 2017, 11:29 AM

I'm stoked on your progress! Great work. You're killing it. Keep at it! beerchug.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Sep 30 2017, 08:14 AM

agree.gif !!
Looking REALLY good. And if it's anything like what I experience, it looks even better in real life.

There are lots of us looking forward to each your updates so get back out there and keep up the great work! cheer.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: 914dave Sep 30 2017, 03:34 PM

Very nice work. Did the same inner long work to my car. Doing the same to dion's car this winter. Sent him this thread as motivation. Keep it up!!

Posted by: bbrock Sep 30 2017, 11:43 PM

Threshold - take three

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Sep 30 2017, 08:14 AM) *

agree.gif !!
Looking REALLY good. And if it's anything like what I experience, it looks even better in real life.


Funny you should mention this. I've wasted way too much time just staring at this side of the car and admiring how nice it looks. But the more I stared, the more something was bugging me. The threshold gap below the door looked wide toward the front. I tried to convince myself it was just an illusion caused by the rust in the lower right corner of the door. But no. Somehow the narrow section of threshold that goes around the hinge post had slipped low before I welded it. I think the torque of the zip screws I used to pull the seam tight probably did it. Anyway, I spent an hour cutting that part loose and rewelding. Looks better now but not anything that shows up in a pic.

Mostly grunt work today

The rest of the day was a lot of work but not much worth photographing. This morning I installed this new tank purging valve on my compressor. I thought I had enough wire on hand to wire up a 120 outlet to plug into. I was wrong so will have to wait for my next trip to town before wiring it in.

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My compressor is in an unheated shed and it is usually chilly here, so despite our low humidity, it still produces a lot of water. I had one of those cheap HF valves on it which worked well through the summer. But after the first night below freezing (we've already had a couple of snows), it started leaking. This one should do better,

While I was in there, I also installed a union joint to make things easier if I ever have to move the compressor again.

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Most of the day was spent cutting the old gussets off of the donor suspension consoles and grinding off those welds. Then a final bead blasting and a soak down with Jasco to kill any rust that might still be hiding in seams. I bought the first set of gussets from 914Rubber after Mark put them on the site and they are on the way. I really like recycling donor parts but these consoles chew up a lot of time cleaning and prepping.

Hopefully, I'll get the outer console attached tomorrow. I mentioned I needed an ~230mm long M10 bolt to follow the factory procedure to check the alignment spec for this part. Good luck finding one. Googling turned up one in a warehouse in Germany. McMaster-Carr and Belmetric both top out at 200mm. Fastenal carries 220mm and 240mm which would work, but $20 shipped. My improvisation was to buy the longest M10 I could find locally, cut it in two pieces, and weld a piece of steel tube between to get the right length. Seems to have worked out okay.

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Since I don't have any interesting pics from today, here's a pic of some of the other residents here. This was taken from our deck.

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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 1 2017, 08:25 AM

I see only Moose. Where is Squirrel?

Boris


lol-2.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 1 2017, 09:32 AM

Squirrel on porch. Here is Squirrel:

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Must catch squirrel.

Posted by: Matty900 Oct 1 2017, 06:31 PM


Very impressive work! Your doing a great job. I can appreciate that feeling of seeing it come together. Keep the photos comming beerchug.gif

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Oct 1 2017, 06:37 PM

Wow! Great job.

Posted by: raynekat Oct 1 2017, 06:42 PM

Not sure what I like best?

The great work you've been doing on your project or....

the incredible wildlife you have up in your neck of the woods.

In a few years, I might move a bit more towards the great outdoors like you up in northern Idaho away from the hectic life here in Portland.

Posted by: bbrock Oct 1 2017, 11:03 PM

QUOTE(914dave @ Sep 30 2017, 03:34 PM) *

Very nice work. Did the same inner long work to my car. Doing the same to dion's car this winter. Sent him this thread as motivation. Keep it up!!
QUOTE(Matty900 @ Oct 1 2017, 06:31 PM) *

Very impressive work! Your doing a great job. I can appreciate that feeling of seeing it come together. Keep the photos comming beerchug.gif
QUOTE(trojanhorsepower @ Oct 1 2017, 06:37 PM) *

Wow! Great job.
QUOTE(raynekat @ Oct 1 2017, 06:42 PM) *

Not sure what I like best?

The great work you've been doing on your project or....

the incredible wildlife you have up in your neck of the woods.

In a few years, I might move a bit more towards the great outdoors like you up in northern Idaho away from the hectic life here in Portland.


Thanks all for the compliments. I'm just muddling through, doing the best that I can. Matty, your car is my aspiration. A true work of art. Raynecat, I hope you do make it to northern Idaho. We love living here. I'll keep throwing in some wildlife shots from time to time. It's why I live here. beer.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 1 2017, 11:48 PM

Skeletons in the Closet

This morning I decided to change my game plan. For a number of reasons, I'm going to hold off on installing the suspension console until I can flip the car on a rotisserie. This list of things that need to wait until this pig is on a spit keeps growing. So I decided to turn my attention to the driver's side long. First, I needed to see if I could turn this car around, in a small garage filled with too much crap, so I'd have room to work on the long. These pics make my garage look huge. Trust me, it's not! Turning this car was like a Chinese tile puzzle. Move stuff out of the way, Move the car into the vacated space. Move stuff again, repeat. At one point, I was able to move my table saw with only an inch of clearance. But I got the job done, and it's good to know I can do that without having to roll the car outside on the gravel. MUCH easier on the concrete.

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First, an inspection of what I'm dealing with.

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As usual, the driver's side isn't nearly as bad as the hell hole, but it still needs help. The outer long is rusting through in spots so has to be replaced.

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Many years ago, I patched in a rust hole and welded in a new jack plate. I did a pretty crappy job so that all has to be cut out and redone.

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The long is rusted out under the jack plate and I had previously cut out a section for inspection before the restoration went into deep hibernation. That would have been the same year that Chernobyl exploded. No, really!

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The door gap is 13mm wide at the top on this side so I'm hoping to fix that. The measurement from roll bar to windshield frame is 7mm too wide. I"m pretty sure I caused this by putting the car on jack stands when I did the crappy patch repair.

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Once I got the outer long cut off, it took just 3/4 turn on the door brace to bring that measurement back into spec.

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With the long open, I made a thorough inspection.

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The inner long is rusted through in a few spots along the lower wall near its midpoint.

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There are also a couple small holes at the very front that I couldn't get a good pic of. I think I'll be able to patch those without removing that PIA heater tube. The worst is the section behind the jack plate which will require some fabrication. But I won't know how much I bunged up the inner wall with the original repair until I cut the quarter panel as I did on the passenger's side, and remove that jack pyramid.

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The only surprise was finding this humerus bone among the rust and debris. It is probably from the same weasel whose skull I found in the front trunk during my initial cleaning.

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That's as far as I got today. Next step is to remove that jack pyramid and then wheel the car into the tent to blast these areas with crushed glass. Then I will evaluate how much metal needs to be replaced and form a plan from there.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 2 2017, 08:02 AM

Moose outside, Squirrel in house and now Weasel in the long...
The Yellow Brick Road has nothing on you!

Love that you're sharing your adventure with us.

Posted by: bbrock Oct 2 2017, 02:28 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 2 2017, 08:02 AM) *

Moose outside, Squirrel in house and now Weasel in the long...
The Yellow Brick Road has nothing on you!

Love that you're sharing your adventure with us.


Ha! The squirrel was still outside. When you come inside the house, it gets downright weird. Here is juat a sample of what lurks within these walls, or did in the past.


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Posted by: tygaboy Oct 2 2017, 02:44 PM

I WILL come and visit you! Not "try", not "plan"... WILL!

Wait, even better and more accurate: MUST! I MUST come visit! laugh.gif

driving.gif

(Like I need more motivation to get my car on the road...)

Posted by: bbrock Oct 3 2017, 10:15 AM

ARGH!!!

Well... setbacks today. I tried to set up to do a little blasting today, but winter is fighting its way into the Northern Rockies a tad early this year and my air hose kept freezing up.

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My plan was to use this panel to replace mine, but I got it for free because it has been worked on before. I knew the lower section of the door jamb would need to be patched. But needed to clean it up to make sure the rest was sound.

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I spent a lot of time yesterday separating the outer skin from the roll bar reinforcement the hard way. And when I got it open, I found this stromberg.gif of a gift inside. A poor patch to say the least.

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This panel is no better than the one I cut off. Between that, and the door jamb issue, it is trash. Oh wait, I will be able to use this:rolleyes.gif

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I took a closer inpspection of the other side where I was planning to use just the sail panel. It's even worse:

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Sooo... Looks like RD will be getting more of my money for two sail panels and another door jamb. That will make reassembly a lot easier at least. I'm waffling on biting the bullet and adding a front floor panel to the order. Mine needs a lot of patch work. Doable, but will probably require at least a week. Having an all shiny new floor is appealing but will mean another big freight bill too. The lesson here is to make sure you have ALL of your donor panels prepped BEFORE placing your sheet metal order. headbang.gif

I think I'm going to try to take my driver's quarter panel off while leaving the door jamb on so I can continue to check the door gap while I work on the long. Oh well, onward ho! smash.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 4 2017, 10:02 PM

Some goodies arrived

On Monday I received my back ordered engine shelf from RD.

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And yesterday, my suspension mount gussets arrived from 914Rubber.

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I also placed another order with RD yesterday. I decided to bite the bullet and ordered the front floor pan. I think it will make for a better end product.

More excavation

I continued the archeology to figure out just how far the tinworms have spread on this side. First I cut off the jack pyramid to reveal my old patch. It actually wasn't too bad if you ignore the ugliness. Just a flat plate welded over the inner wall with a square hole cut in for the jack tube.

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If it weren't for all the rot around it, it was a structurally sound repair, but not up to the standards I'm aiming for now. We can do better.

Then I wheeled the car out to the tent for a frustrating afternoon of media blasting with crushed glass. It is snowy and cold outside which caused my safety glasses to want to fog up with my P95 mask on. And moisture had gotten into the pressure pot, causing the media to cake and not flow. But eventually I was able to get enough done to make a good assessment.

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Unfortunately, the result is not good. While there is less rot on this side, I'm still going to have to rebuild the entire floor and lower wall of the inner long like I did on the passenger side. The differences are that I have most of the original to use as a pattern, the corrosion stops much lower on the side wall so I think I can do this without pulling those blasted heater tubes, and the curved part of the rear of the front wheel house is still solid so I don't have to replicate that compound bend.

The rear inner wheelhouse section is in much better shape than the hell hole but is still going to be work. The floor is gone below the jack support and the inner wall needs repair from the hump for the engine mount forward. But it's going to be tricky because access to that area is poor since the inner wheel house is solid rearward of the jack support.

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The floor looks gooey in this shot because I had just sprayed it down with Jasco. The metal is a little pitted but still solid rearward of the engine mount hump. I think it will be fine with a Jasco treatment and epoxy primer followed by cavity wax.

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Tomorrow I will cut off the doughnut triangle under the heater tube to get better access the the outside wall of the inner long. I know it is rusted through in a small spot where it passes through the firewall. I'm worried I may need to remove the engine mount to get access to make necessary repairs. I'd like to avoid that of course. sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 9 2017, 12:01 AM

A Big Wind!
Well... on my to-do list for the weekend was pulling the cover off of the tent garage so it didn't collapse under the snow this winter. Friday night, a warm front came through with high winds gusting up to 56 MPH. At 4 am, I looked out the window and everything looked fine. At 6:30 am, I looked outside and "Bubba's room was gone!" That, BTW, is a direct quote I heard a guy say on the news when describing the aftermath of an Oklahoma tornado tearing through his trailer court. Here's what was left of Bubba's room Saturday morning:

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And here's where I found Bubba's room. The only thing that kept it from blowing into the next county (which is only a couple hundred feet up the road) was a rope attached to the tent that wrapped around one of the trailing arms of my car. They apparently make good anchors.

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The actual anchors were still firmly in the ground:

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But the cheap-ass cable clamps failed.

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Now I remember thinking that I should replace those clamps when I set up the tent. But I forgot. To add insult, I have a pile of good ones in the garage. headbang.gif The tent is a little torn up, but nothing some gorilla tape won't fix. But I won't put it back up until spring... which means mid-June around here.

Fab-a-dabba-doo

Despite the late start on the car, I managed to finish cutting out the rusted sections of the driver's inner long.

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Then I set to work fabricating a new lower section of the long. By the end of the day, I had the front half mostly done:

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This morning, I worked on the recess for the e-brake handle. Getting that banged out to align perfectly was just loads of fun. blink.gif Of course, bending that metal shrank the back wall, which warped the piece. So I had to use my shrinker on the welding flange followed by some hammering on the anvil to straighten things back out. It wasn't too hard, just took time. But I finally got the recess in pretty good shape. It will require a little hammer and dolly work to fine tune it once it is tacked in place.

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Fabbing the rear section only took a couple hours since it is a much simpler piece. By late evening, I had the two halve melted together and trimmed. Ready to install.

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Not a bad looking piece if I say so myself. shades.gif

And about an hour ago, I had the piece tacked into place.

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Posted by: mb911 Oct 9 2017, 05:40 AM

Looks great.. I wish when I made mine I had something to follow to make the recesses like you did but nothing for a pattern could be found.. I still need to figure that out..

Posted by: altitude411 Oct 9 2017, 10:11 AM

Nice work Montana! Following your thread and soon to be looking out for your car. Great job! beerchug.gif

* it was blowin a hawks ass here as well... time to adjust (the lean) for winter.

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Posted by: bbrock Oct 9 2017, 08:49 PM

Ben PMed me about dimensions for the recesses in the inner long floors. I figured I'd post here in case it helps anyone in the future. Sorry for this crude drawing. I am neither an artist or draftsman and no longer have a CAD program on my computer.

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Notes:
- Areas marked recesses are recessed when viewed from the bottom of the long and raised when viewed from the inside surface.

-The long channel along the length of the inner wall forms the recess where the floor pan is welded on.

- All channels running perpendicular to the long channel start at full depth from the long channel, and taper to near zero depth as the approach the outer edge.

- Left and right longs are mirror images of each other.

- The rear sections of both my longs were rusted out, so I've marked the area where I have just assumed the channel layout. My assumption is that the long channel extends as far as the rear edge of the floor pan, and there is one additional perpendicular channel spaced the same distance apart as the two shallow channels. If someone has better pieces for pattern, maybe they can correct these assumptions.

- I used both centimeters and millimeters i the measure,ents, so pay attention to the units.

Hopefully this helps someone.

Posted by: bbrock Oct 9 2017, 08:50 PM

QUOTE(altitude411 @ Oct 9 2017, 10:11 AM) *

Nice work Montana! Following your thread and soon to be looking out for your car. Great job! beerchug.gif

* it was blowin a hawks ass here as well... time to adjust (the lean) for winter.

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Ha! Hawk's ass. That's just about right. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 10 2017, 09:46 PM

Good progress today. I finished welding in lower inner long patch. Then trimmed an dry fit the outer from RD. Then I tackled the outer wall patch for the area under the jack support.

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I was going to make a hammer form for that pyramid recess under the jack support using 3/16" steel. But I didn't have any on hand and didn't want to wait until my next trip into town. So I decided to give it a go just hammer with the help of the vice and anvil. If you can forgive a few hammer marks, I think it will look close to factory fresh once it is burned in.

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Next up is fabbing patches for the inner walls of both sides of the long.

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 11 2017, 08:30 AM

Holy Toledo! Your car is WAY apart. I'm always in awe of you guys who (seem to) think nothing of lopping off 1/2 the side of their car. pray.gif

There should be a club/t-shirt for folks who pull off this sort of thing.
Continued great results as you soldier on! sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 11 2017, 12:21 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 11 2017, 08:30 AM) *

Holy Toledo! Your car is WAY apart. I'm always in awe of you guys who (seem to) think nothing of lopping off 1/2 the side of their car. pray.gif

There should be a club/t-shirt for folks who pull off this sort of thing.
Continued great results as you soldier on! sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif


Says the guy who has basically re-engineered and built his car from scratch... poke.gif And didn't you just put a complete floor pan on that machine?

Posted by: mb911 Oct 11 2017, 02:29 PM

Lol Chris I assume you are talking about me as well.. That's the fun isn't it making something out of nothing..

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 11 2017, 02:32 PM

Ben - Yep, you, bbrock and Dion come immediately to mind. I know there are others, too, that I'd lump in with you metal cuttin' crazies! laugh.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 11 2017, 02:47 PM

Oh Yeah, that list is LONG! And there is no way I'd be doing this if others hadn't documented their processes before me. We are only the current cohort standing on the shoulders of giants. pray.gif

Posted by: bbrock Oct 20 2017, 10:05 AM

I've gotten behind on updates so let's get caught up. Let's start with some more sheet metal porn. These arrived last Wednesday:

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Now back to work. First up was finishing welding in the inner long floor. That went pretty well.

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Next, I welded in the outer wall, inner side patch behind the jack support. That little piece took forever to get right. Between the compound curves and limited access, it was a booger to get shaped and trimmed. You can see my whoopsy where I trimmed too much off of a corner. I'm not too worried about that though because once the inner wall is in, it should be easy enough to fill in that corner with the welder. But still... headbang.gif

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Now let's patch that inner wall. This was another piece that was a PIA to get shaped and prepped.

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Tin worms had gotten to part of the inner wall over the hump for the engine mount bracket, but luckily, the outer wall had a little pitting, but was still sound. My plan was to include that area in the larger inner wall patch. But due to limited access, I couldn't get that little whoopty-do shaped and trimmed accurately as an integral appendage to the patch. So I made a template with tracing paper and just cut a small piece of sheet metal to patch that separately. Even then, there was no room to manipulate the welding gun, so the the welds look like turkey shit. But structurally, it is sound.

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Next the larger patch and outer wall were prepped, and the patch was welded in.

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Again, space was so tight inside that area that I had just enough room to stick the gun in with a bare hand. So the rearward portion of the weld job is a bit of a shit show, but structurally sound. I take no pride in this part of the repair. But the only option to make that area look pretty would be to open up the inner wheel well to provide better access like I had on the passenger side. But that option seemed like it was fraught with a lot of risk for limited reward.

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Now it was time to tackle the inner wall of the jack support. This is a complicated piece and I was going to build a hammer form from maple or 3/16" steel, but then I happened to notice a scrap of 3" schedule 40 PVC in the shop and thought that might offer a simpler option. Sure enough, the PVC fit very close to the diameter of the doughnut I needed to create.

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So I drilled a 2" hole in a piece of sheet metal with a hole saw, then hammered it into a doughut using a wooden mallet and the PVC for a form. This would have been easier if I'd have cut the PVC down so I was hammering lower on the bench. But my table saw was covered with crap and I'm lazy.

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I was able to raise a reasonable facsimile of the original doughnut. It isn't an exact match, but very close and functionally equivalent. The doughnut on the original is sunk in an hourglass-shaped recess to make it fit tight against the pyramid of the outer wall. I created the recess by lining up the piece on the edge of my anvil and tapping at an angle with the edge of my mallet. This took a bit of finesse, but I was happy with the result.

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Here's the final result.

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Tuesday, Oct. 17 - the anti-climax

I spent a few hours grinding down welds and prepping things for epoxy primer. Everything was given a treatment with Jasco the night before. Then cleaned and wiped down with wax and grease remover, and all flanges and butt weld areas were masked before primer. I pulled my second ratte can of Eastwood Epoxy Primer off the shelf and found it was defective. I felt like a Who down in Whoville who, after weeks of preparation and anticipation, woke on Christmas Day to find the Grinch had been busy. That exciting moment of paint and reassembly would have to wait. I should say that this wasn't Eastwood's fault. They had already replaced the defective can. No need to bore with details except that I thought the original can was still usable, and it wasn't. My bad. blink.gif

Wednesday, Oct 18 - Primer, finally

I had a gallon of very expensive PPG DPLF series epoxy primer on hand, but no way to spray it. My only spray gun is an ancient siphon-fed high pressure pot, and I wasn't going to waste my $325/gallon primer through an inefficient gun. The next day, I took a trip to the local HF to pick up one of their cheap HVLP spray guns. It is good enough for primer, I think.

The new gun worked well. It was my first experience working with 2K paint or an HVLP gun. My how painting has improved over the decades! cheer.gif But in my excitement, I forgot to take a picture of all the nicely primed parts. blush.gif

Yesterday, Oct, 19

I tried my best to shoot primer all the way to the rear of the long, but couldn't get it done. So I engineered and fabricated this high tech remote access primer delivery system.

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And I at least got a pic of that result.

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After this cures a week or two, I'll follow up with some Eastwood Internal Frame Coating as backup for any spots that might have been missed. And all cavities will be sprayed with cavity wax.

Reinstalling the the rear heater tube and hose went without a hitch. The outer paper wall of the heater hose split slightly when I removed it, so I put a wrap of Gorilla tape on just for a little added reinforcement. Would have been fine without, but I wanted to be sure. It would be nice to be able to clean that hose before reinstall, but didn't want to risk destroying it.

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Then the jack area patch went in. I thought of all kinds of ways to offset the inner and outer wall welds, which is preferred. But access limited options and every alternative I could think of was fraught with risk. So I decided to chamfer the butt weld gap so I could make sure to run a puddle into both layers. It seemed to work well and the result is acceptable.

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Then I welded in the front wheel well patch that extends into the long.

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I wanted to primer the backs of those butt welds, so I designed and frabricated a space-aged limited tolerance primer delivery tool.

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And finally it was ready to fit the outer long! I like to weld up the patch area at the front first. That way, the piece can move with any shrinking that occurs from the butt weld without pulling the whole frame structure.

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That was a lot to cover. Today I'll dry fit the door jamb with zip screws and refit the door so I can check gaps while I weld up the long. I'm running low on MIG gas, so we'll see how far I get. beerchug.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 20 2017, 10:52 AM

cheer.gif aktion035.gif pray.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: porschetub Oct 20 2017, 12:44 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Oct 12 2017, 09:32 AM) *

Ben - Yep, you, bbrock and Dion come immediately to mind. I know there are others, too, that I'd lump in with you metal cuttin' crazies! laugh.gif


agree.gif totally ,hats off to you guys....huge undertaking smilie_pokal.gif .

Posted by: mb911 Oct 21 2017, 07:39 AM

Its looking good.. I have to take off from updates this weekend as out of town.. Keep the great work up to take up my slack.

Posted by: bbrock Oct 21 2017, 05:22 PM

Trying to do as Ben says and keep plugging along. Yesterday, I got a lesson in why it is so important to wear underwear when doing a project like this because I just about stromberg.gif my pants when I bolted on the door and dry fit the jamb to check door gaps. They were WAY off new_shocked.gif It was hard to tell how much was because the jamb needed to be tweaked for fitment, and how much was a real problem. But the gap was zero near the door handle, and (I'm just guessing) 15mm lower on the door. I decided I needed to trim the sail panel enough to clamp it on for a dry fit so I could properly align the jamb the way it will be in in its final resting place. That took a bit of fiddling to get right, but I finally got there and things started looking MUCH better.

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But there was still a major concern. At the spot labeled "A" in the above pic, the door was 2mm higher than the quarter panel. I adjusted the sail panel as much as possible but still couldn't get things to line up. I looked for any possible adjustments at the door hinges and found none. It was puzzling because my measurements from roll bar to window frame, and across the door opening were both spot on with factory specs. WTF.gif It made no sense and I was getting really worried that something was seriously bent or torqued. Then I decided to just push down on the door above the handle area and presto, the door went into perfect alignment.

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It's a little unsettling, but other than a couple small rust patches in the skin, the door is solid. Apparently, there is enough give in the door that it can be bent up or down a few mm.

Anywho, with that little nightmare out of the way, I spent the next couple hours plug welding the long shut. I'm getting better at my plug welding technique, but still have a tendency to overfill the holes a bit, leaving enough dome that they need to be touched with a grinder.

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After welding, the door fitment and measurements were unchanged. piratenanner.gif

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Just as a refresher of where this door started:

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Nice improvement. cheer.gif

Last night, I got the jack tube welded in. Unfortunately, the replacement gun liner I ordered for my welder was for the newer style Handler and didn't fit my old unit. This leaves me with no way to run .035 wire until I find a replacement. So the inside weld around the tube required some grinding to not look like a pile of bear crap. After getting the tube in, I called it a night.

This morning, my welder gas was running on empty so I tried to use it all up in time for a run into town for a fresh exchange. I welded on the jack pyramid. I'll leave welding around the tube until I can run thicker wire.

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I was still getting 20 lbs of pressure at the gun so I kept going. I welded in the threshold.

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Still had gas, so I burned on the brackets.

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Still had gas. So I started on the door jamb. Got it plugged on in a few spots and the gas gave out... 10 minutes too late to get to the welding shop before they closed at noon mad.gif

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Oh well, welding is over for the weekend. But there is plenty of other stuff to do. I ended with clamping the sail panel back on to admire the progress.

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The gap is down to 2mm at the door handle, but that is just because I don't have the sail panel aligned exactly right. It will be fine with final fitment. I think this will be a good time to do a little shop cleanup and organizing. beer3.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 21 2017, 09:26 PM

Wow - AWESOME progress! And I hear you on the underpants and measurements... Nerve wracking. But man, you are knocking it out! Very nice.
And you have every right to be proud of the improved fit you've achieved.

beer3.gif is right!

(And you still have Sunday to tidy up...!)

Posted by: bbrock Oct 27 2017, 09:31 AM

Nothing too exciting this week but more progress. Monday I got a fresh C25 bottle for the welder and finished welding in the door jamb.

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But I was getting ahead of myself because when I cut off the old door latch bracket, I found a spot of deeply pitted metal underneath. Yes, I'm stupid. screwy.gif It wasn't a big deal, but if the jamb were still off, I'd probably weld in a small patch. Instead, I just cleaned it back to good steel and zap, zap, zapped to fill the hole with the welder. Then welded the new bracket in place.

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I have one last task to do before I can put the shell on a rotisserie. The bumper mounts were rotted out and it would really suck to watch the rotisserie rip the nose off the car.

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I thought this would be a quick sheet metal patch job, but the structure is a little complicated. The bumper mount is actually a 3 layer sandwich of metal that integrates a bracket, inner wheel well, and front nose skin together.

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After cleaning back to solid metal, I made a tracing paper template for the front part of the inner wheel well.

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I cut out some rot in the bracket and patched it with 18 g sheet. Then I fabbed a new front piece of the inner wheel well out of 21 g sheet scavenged from the trunk lid.

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Then a skin graft from the trunk to patch the front nose skin.

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I'll do some more cosmetic work on this as I go through the chassis for metal finishing. For now, at least one side is strong enough to hange the car on.

These pics are a little boring. So here's a pic from Monday. You can see the frame of my tent garage at the bottom.

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And here's an older one. This is my idea of a really good day.

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Posted by: bbrock Nov 9 2017, 07:43 PM

It's been a bit hectic between work and this project so I skipped a week of updates. But some progress has been made.

I finished patching the driver's side front bumper mount area.

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Then I hoped to start converting my roller dolly to a rottiserie to dive into finishing the engine compartment and replacing the floor, but I was waiting on parts to sort out my welder. More on that later. While waiting, I zapped a strip of 22g onto the drivers long to replace the vapor hose hold down.

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Then, I decided to patch the firewall on the drivers side.

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That hole above the channel bead was an unfortunate isolated pit surrounded by good metal. So I just zapped it closed using a copper backing plate.

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For the lower area, I fabbed a patch and welded it in.

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Still can't get rid of that shrink. Heating and hammering as Ben suggested helped, but poor access on the back limited how much of the seam I could hammer and dolly. It will only take a dab of filler to smooth those valleys, but I'd rather have it smooth with no filler. I'm starting to curse you guys that post pics of your invisible butt welds. slap.gif

Still waiting for welder parts, so I harvested the rest of the hell hole pieces from my donor parts.

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The battery tray had obviously been a replacement on the donor car and was in great shape other than a little surface rust. The engine mount was a bit crusty on the back, but still solid.

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Both parts cleaned up nicely with bead blasting, but I have a little more work to do on the mount, so will wait to post pictures when they are done.

Unrelated to chassis work, I got a fun GB package from 914rubber.

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It will be quite some time before I'm ready to used these parts, but I had to take advantage of the GB on the master cylinder. smilie_pokal.gif I hope I don't regret not getting the easy option.

All this welding and grinding has taken a toll on my shop air filtration filters. So replacements were in order. Certainly don't what that stromberg.gif in my lungs!

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And the welder parts arrived.

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I wrote about this on another thread, but a couple months ago, my welder started acting up. I was still using the original, 30 year old, liner that came with my welder. So assumed changing the liner would make things right again. It wasn't easy to find liners for this discontinued gun, but I managed. But after installing the new liner, the welder was no better. It was time to face that I'd been in denial. The spark had gotten weak to the point that I was cranking the amps up to full power just to stitch weld thin sheet metal. After some research, I learned this is a classic symptom of bad diodes. So today I pulled them and tested them.

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Sure enough, both diodes read open in both directions. The local welding shop sells Miller products, but they don't stock diodes and had no interest in helping me find them. This is the same shop that still sells silica sand for blasting media. yikes.gif Diodes are easy to find online and I have a set on order, but I'm dead in the water until they arrive. There are plenty of non-welding tasks to do though. So I'll manage to stay busy somehow. beer3.gif

Posted by: bbrock Nov 15 2017, 02:35 PM

Not a whole lot of progress, but some. While waiting for welder parts, I worked on a couple non-Porsche projects. But I did finish cleaning up the engine mount and battery tray, and treating them with Jasco. I also stripped the Dansk tray support I got from RD. The Dansk support comes with a super tough power coat which would be great, I think. But not so great if you want to primer and spray with the chassis. It was a bear to get off. The Jasco will need to be reactivated and rinsed before installing the parts, but they cleaned up nicely.

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With the welder down, I turned my attention to the engine. The heads are the only things that weren't rebuilt back in 1989. You know, back when Madonna and the B-52s were making me weep for the musical arts. Even Neil Young was putting out crap. Why Neil... why? Anyway.... I disassembled one head. Some of those valve keepers didn't want to let go. But I got the valves out. Everything looks good so far, no nasty surprises.

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With the heads disassembled, time to clean them. I gave them a scrub with soap and water to get the worst of the almost thirty-year old grease off.

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Still pretty nasty. I loaded up the borrowed blasting cabinet with walnut shell to finish the cleaning. Then I hit another snag. The blasting cabinet I'm using likes to clog, but I was able to get it to work barely adequately with glass bead by pulsing the trigger to clear the tube. The walnut shell was a no-go. The best I could get was maybe 20 seconds before it would clog. Putting a gloved finger over the nozzle and puffing air would clear the clog until the rubber hose worked loose enough the pop off. Then I had to get in the cabinet and reconnect things. Too much of a pain. The little bit I did blast, worked really well. But this won't do.

I did a little online research and quickly discovered that the single tube siphon in this cabinet is the problem.

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I just got the go-ahead from the owner to modify the tube to this double tube design which is said to work well.

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This is another pretty boring update, so here is a bat:

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Posted by: trojanhorsepower Nov 15 2017, 03:46 PM

Nice Pine. What state?

Posted by: bbrock Nov 15 2017, 06:55 PM

QUOTE(trojanhorsepower @ Nov 15 2017, 02:46 PM) *

Nice Pine. What state?


Are you talking about the siding behind the bat? It's actually "white fir" which I was told includes grand fir, noble fir, and a few other species. It was logged and milled in NW Montana. It looks a lot like pine. I don't think I'd use it again for siding though.

Posted by: 76-914 Nov 15 2017, 10:30 PM

Cute Bat. That pick up tube looks like the one that transformed my
POS HF cabinet into a useful blaster. Eually important is the use of 3/8 ID hose and fittings. Keep on keeping on. Your almost there. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Nov 16 2017, 05:56 PM

Diodes delivered! I made a special 6 mile round trip down our snowy mountain road to pick up the mail, giddy with the prospect of having a working welder by the end of the evening. I got home and opened the package, all aquiver with excitement.

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stromberg.gif , stromberg.gif , and more stromberg.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif

One diode kit and one.... nylon insert nut? WTF.gif Waiting to hear from the ebay seller on my refund request. I don't think there will be a problem, but another week of delay. This whole operation depends on a welder. Without it... no chassis work, no blasting cabinet repair. Might be a good time to start working on the wiring harness.

If this isn't interesting, here's a coyote.

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Posted by: bbrock Nov 28 2017, 08:03 PM

Gettin' Wired

Here's an update for the last week and a half. Progress is still slow due partly to the holidays, but mostly because I slipped on the ice on the steep part of our driveway last week and busted a rib. That has me moving a little slow... like Uncle Joe.... at the Junction. Sorry, couldn't resist. And if you got that bad joke, you're OLD. slits.gif

While waiting on welder diodes, I pulled the main wire harness out of the shed to start the restoration. It's not a lost cause, but needs some help. First steps were to clean, assess, inventory parts needed, and taking lots of reference pics to put things back together properly.

Here's how the harness looked coming out of the car.

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There are two main areas of damage to be addressed. First there is the bundle running from the 14-pin connector in the engine bay. Sorry for the blurry pic.

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This brought back memories. It was a warm spring day motoring along I-70 in the middle of Kansas when all of a sudden... she quit. The sweet smell of burnt insulation wafted into the car as I coasted to the shoulder. The tach wire has shorted out and fried almost every wire in that bundle with it. Only two wires survived that meltdown. I spent several hours roadside that day wrapping burnt wire with electrical tape and splicing things back together enough to get the car going. I never did repair that damage properly so now is the time.

The second big problem spot is near where the harness passes through the bulkhead to the front trunk where a rodent commandeered several inches of the harness for nesting material. Only one wire survived this assault.

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The rest of the damage is dispersed. Lots of missing spade terminals, wires snipped by rodents here and there near the terminal ends. A few insulation knicks, The instrument illumintion harness a good example of the random damage.

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and lots of overspray left over from a PO's cheap paint job.

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It seemed daunting at first, but like anything complicated, once it is assessed and broken down into bite-sized steps, it isn't bad.

First step was a good cleaning. I started by removing removing tape and zip tying wire bundles together to keep the groupings organized. As I removed
tape, I noted the size and type and ordered new stuff. There are actually 3 types of tape in these harnesses. There is the 9mm Tessa tape that has been talked about. It measures about 7mm on the harness but I think that is because of a combination of the stretch put on the tape during wrapping and shrinking from age. There is also vinyl tape approximately 1/2" inch wide used to band the wire bundles prior to cloth tape wrapping. They also used the wider 19mm cloth tape in a few spots, but those are buried so deep you wouldn't know it until you removed all the tape. I'm anal, but not THAT anal, so I just ordered the two narrow widths.

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With the harness stripped down, scrubbed every inch with a nylon brush and simple green. Then everything a good rinse and let it dry. Next I wiped everything down with 303 protectant. It is starting to look new again. I forgot to mention that I also downloaded both '73 and '74 schematics from http://bowlsby.net/914/WiringHarnesses/#ReferenceLibrary and printed them out large. The '74 diagrams include wire sizes which I can't find on the '73 diagrams. So they are handy for sourcing the correct replacements.

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Here's a before for comparison.

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There was still the matter of the overspray. Most of this was on the tail light bundle and the one piece of black cable sheathing in the front trunk that is split. That was lucky because it could be easily removed. The painted sheathing and taillight section of harness got an overnight soak in brake fluid to loosen the paint. Then it was easy to remove with the green side of a scrubber sponge.

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Posted by: bbrock Nov 28 2017, 08:40 PM

Gettin' wired continued

Now that the wire was nice and spiffy, I made a complete inventory of parts needed. I ordered a bunch of proper brass, open barrel spade terminals, a few right angle spade terminals, new brass bulb holders, contact cleaner, and an assortment of colored heat shrink tubing. Of these, only the bulb holders have arrived.

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But that was enough to fully refurbish the instrument lighting harness. This consisted of splicing several broken wires using a lineman's splice, followed by flooding the splice with solder and sealing it with heat shrink. I have plenty of black heat shrink which was the right color for this wire. Finally, I soldered on new bulb holders where needed and followed with heat shrink over the joints. After a cleaning with contact cleaner, this should be good as new.

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More importantly, I made a complete inventory of wire and jacketing needed to repair the main harness.

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Perry Kiehl is checking his inventory of sheathing material to see if he has what I need. I'm working on sourcing the wire now. I forgot to mention that I'm going to eliminate the original fuel pump wires in the engine bay and relocate it to under the fuel tank. This will require running a new black w/ red stripe wire from the 14-pin connector up to the front trunk area, and a ground wire to a terminal somewhere up front, but yet to be decided.

I also decided to start re-wrapping sections of the harness that don't need repair or new wires strung through them. Not looking too bad. smile.gif

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And now for something completely different

In other news, the diodes for my welder arrived last week. It took about 45 minutes to put them in and the welder was hissing like a viper again. Unfortunately, in the process of bolting up the diodes, a lead on one of the capacitors that protects them popped off. I replaced it with the closest thing I had on hand, but I'll need to tear in there to put in the right value capacitor.

But in the mean time, I was able to mod the pickup tube on the blasting cabinet. Luckily, the cabinet already has a 3/8" hose and gun. So the mod cost nothing since I already had a piece of tubing on hand.

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Boy what a difference that made! I can now blast away without clogs. piratenanner.gif And that meant I could finish walnut blasting my heads. Finally! A task on this car that didn't constantly shoot pain from my busted rib.

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No signs of cracks on either head. monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif

These will go in for rebuild soon, but for now, they already make the engine look nicer.

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It will be nice to have those done so I can start bolting stuff onto the engine where they are out of my way.

Posted by: barefoot Nov 29 2017, 05:46 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Nov 15 2017, 03:35 PM) *


With the welder down, I turned my attention to the engine. The heads are the only things that weren't rebuilt back in 1989. You know, back when Madonna and the B-52s were making me weep for the musical arts. Even Neil Young was putting out crap. Why Neil... why? Anyway.... I disassembled one head. Some of those valve keepers didn't want to let go. But I got the valves out. Everything looks good so far, no nasty surprises.

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Please don't re-use 40 yr old sodium filled exhaust valves, here's what one of mine looked like after a short rap with a mallet to verify valves not stuck prior to teardown


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Posted by: bbrock Nov 29 2017, 02:29 PM

QUOTE(barefoot @ Nov 29 2017, 04:46 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Nov 15 2017, 03:35 PM) *


With the welder down, I turned my attention to the engine. The heads are the only things that weren't rebuilt back in 1989. You know, back when Madonna and the B-52s were making me weep for the musical arts. Even Neil Young was putting out crap. Why Neil... why? Anyway.... I disassembled one head. Some of those valve keepers didn't want to let go. But I got the valves out. Everything looks good so far, no nasty surprises.

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Please don't re-use 40 yr old sodium filled exhaust valves, here's what one of mine looked like after a short rap with a mallet to verify valves not stuck prior to teardown


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Roger that. I just had this same discussion with Mark Henry on another thread about my cylinder heads. It was a question I had because this engine is 40 years old, but it sat unused in my shed for all but 15 of those years. But... better safe than sorry. I've already had exhaust valves snap on two different engines in an old VW bus I used to have. Might as well have dropped a grenade in the case. So new valves all around for this one.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 3 2017, 10:24 PM

Well Goodbye Dolly

I put the car up on jack stands yesterday, and today I cut up the dolly and made a good start on turning her into a rotisserie. She played her part well. Hardest part of today was dragging those long pieces out with a broken rib. Every time I pulled, I could feel my rib grinding. Had to called in the wife for help. After that, it was downhill.

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Posted by: raynekat Dec 4 2017, 12:13 AM

Bummer on the bad rib. Heal quickly.
Looking good on all the wiring harness work.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 10 2017, 09:46 PM

I had high hopes of having a chassis hanging upside down in the garage by the end of the weekend. Those plans fell through when a quick brake pad replacement on my Pathfinder turned into an unplanned trip into town to buy new calipers, followed by an extended cussing session getting the system bled. Shot the whole day, but I'm glad my work truck/snow plow has new brakes.

That left just today to work on the Porsche. I made good progress om the rotisserie, but didn't quite make it to mounting the car. There is probably 2-3 more hours of work before the magic moment.

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The new diodes in the welder have it hissing like a viper. Running .035 wire for 1/8" wall square tube. Working well.

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In the mean time, I've been working on the wire harness as parts arrive. Theer donated a chunk of old harness to the project and I patched in everything I could. Cary is sending a care package with all the pieces I haven't been able to source new. I wasn't happy with the spade connectors I ordered on Ebay. They were okay, but a little flimsy for this project. I tracked down the OEM AMP brand crimp connectors and ordered a bunch from digi-key. MUCH better quality and a perfect match to the originals.

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I also ordered some 3:1 black heat shrink to replace insulators on spade connectors. I'll add a pic later, but it is a perfect match to the factory originals

Got an envelope of gray heat shrink in the mail, so this morning I finished patching in the gray wires. I don't know, is this anal? confused24.gif

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Posted by: mb911 Dec 11 2017, 06:03 AM

I need to do the same to my harness.. At some point and engine fire caused all kinds of issues.. Keep up the great work.

Posted by: cary Dec 11 2017, 09:13 AM

Before you go too far. Your building your rotisserie the same as I did. As soon as Doug's car comes off were going to change it. I what more precision on where i can lock it down.
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We're going to cut back the inner tub and weld a plate on the end with a nut welded in the middle behind a hole. Then we'll fabricate a lock down handle, maybe a 914 steering wheel with a plate and a long piece of all thread. We'll do both ends.
Kind of like this. But we'll still leave the 4 pin holes for climbing in the tub.
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My .02c for the am.


Posted by: mb911 Dec 11 2017, 09:34 AM

What I have seen is a gm or similar flex plate welded on to the rotating assembly and then a starter motor gear welded to a handle.. Probably the easiest way to get the rotisserie to have a true stop..

Posted by: bbrock Dec 11 2017, 09:57 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Dec 11 2017, 08:13 AM) *

Before you go too far. Your building your rotisserie the same as I did. As soon as Doug's car comes off were going to change it. I what more precision on where i can lock it down.
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We're going to cut back the inner tub and weld a plate on the end with a nut welded in the middle behind a hole. Then we'll fabricate a lock down handle, maybe a 914 steering wheel with a plate and a long piece of all thread. We'll do both ends.
Kind of like this. But we'll still leave the 4 pin holes for climbing in the tub.
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My .02c for the am.


I'll take a look at that. The pin showing in the pic is just a safety pin to keep the swivel from falling out of the hub. These pics show more detail of what I have planned for lock down. 1/2" nuts and bolts.

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But now that you mention climbing in the tub, I think I'll drill the spindle that hasn't been welded to the cross bar so I can drop a pin in the horizontal position. Should do both, but getting that spindle that is already welded in the drill press would be a bitch. Will think on that one.

Thanks for the tips!

Posted by: bbrock Dec 16 2017, 11:34 PM

Saturday 12/16 - Rotisserie is Done
Finished building the rotisserie today. Took longer than expected because I underestimated how long it would take to cut and grind off all the brackets from the dolly so I could recycle the square tubing.

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I'm a bit nervous about how tall they are. Everything looked good until I whipped out my big ten inch..... castors. I knew they would add height so I shaved the height of the center posts as much as I dared from specs I've seen online. I hope I measured right to allow enough clearance for the car to spin. Even with shortened posts, the hubs are about chest high. I'll see how it goes, but might wind up swapping out for smaller castors.

I tested out the locking mechanism. With the bolts cranked down, I'm able to hang my whole weight out on the end of the arms. I think with both hubs locked down, I'll be able to climb in the tub without spinning. If not, I'll drill a hole in each hub so I can drop a pin to lock them into the horizontal position.

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Now I have to figure out what to use for cribbing to lift the tub high enough to mount to the rig. Everything I have is buried under snow. Might pick up some cinder blocks in town tomorrow.

Tomorrow is massive clean up, plowing snow, and catching up on some non-car related chores.

Dang I'm tired. yawn.gif

Posted by: bbrock Dec 18 2017, 09:59 PM

German Luau

I've dreamed about this for almost 30 years, and now it's done. Fine German steel slowly spinning on a rotisserie. But it wasn't easy.

First I had to lift the car. Verily did this pucker my anus. yikes.gif

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And even with the tub lifted as high as I dared, I still had 4 1/2" to go.

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So I dropped two wheels off of each stand so I could dip the hubs low enough to engage.

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Success! And those 1/2" brake bolts work like a champ.

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With the wheels reattached, time to test the spin.

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Not bad, but all is not bliss. Trying to keep this thing as low as possible, I shaved about 2 inches too much for the windsheild frame to clear the center bar for a full roll over. I could probably live with that but I'm afraid if the car ever got loose from me, it would swing around and make a really bad day. I'm thinking of two options. One is to cut the center bar under the cockpit and reweld it with a drop so the frame clears on a full spin. The other is to just cut the bar in half and add a small sleeve so it is removable. Then I would attach the center bar when I need to roll the chassis around. I can't decide. Opinions welcome! Overall though, this feels like a HUGE milestone.

Posted by: andrewb Dec 19 2017, 01:56 AM

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Congrats Brent. This is my favourite thread at the moment - along with Tygaboy's. Makes for an interesting contrast.

30 years ? Hmmmmm I know the feeling unfortunately.

I would leave the long bar in one piece but weld a length of box section to the underside of each stand - and then slide the long bar into those. Same result - minimum effort. DAMM ! just realised there's a castor in the way. Never mind. What if you did the above suggestion and swapped the 2 inner castors for some much smaller ones ?

Good luck, keep it coming.

Andrew

Posted by: bbrock Dec 19 2017, 07:32 AM

QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 19 2017, 12:56 AM) *

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Congrats Brett. This is my favourite thread at the moment - along with Tygaboy's. Makes for an interesting contrast.

30 years ? Hmmmmm I know the feeling unfortunately.

I would leave the long bar in one piece but weld a length of box section to the underside of each stand - and then slide the long bar into those. Same result - minimum effort. DAMM ! just realised there's a castor in the way. Never mind. What if you did the above suggestion and swapped the 2 inner castors for some much smaller ones ?

Good luck, keep it coming.

Andrew


thumb3d.gif Yeah, contrast is an understatement. I refer to Chris'(Tygaboy's) build as "the rocket ship."

That's a great idea on he cross bar. I'm going to take a look at that. Might be a good way to go.

Posted by: mb911 Dec 19 2017, 08:05 AM

On mine I decided I really didn't want to risk something as you described so I just put stops so that my car will only rotate 90 degrees from sitting flat each direction. This allows me to still do all underside body work with out as much danger..

Posted by: bbrock Dec 19 2017, 08:35 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 19 2017, 07:05 AM) *

On mine I decided I really didn't want to risk something as you described so I just put stops so that my car will only rotate 90 degrees from sitting flat each direction. This allows me to still do all underside body work with out as much danger..


Another good idea. cheer.gif I won't be able to get a full 90 degrees due to the clearance, but it might be close enough to get underpan work done. I think I'll explore this option first, since it would be easiest. First, I need to get the frunk lid off. I learned it is a bad idea to try to spin the car with that still on. wacko.gif

Posted by: mb911 Dec 19 2017, 08:42 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 19 2017, 06:35 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 19 2017, 07:05 AM) *

On mine I decided I really didn't want to risk something as you described so I just put stops so that my car will only rotate 90 degrees from sitting flat each direction. This allows me to still do all underside body work with out as much danger..


Another good idea. cheer.gif I won't be able to get a full 90 degrees due to the clearance, but it might be close enough to get underpan work done. I think I'll explore this option first, since it would be easiest. First, I need to get the frunk lid off. I learned it is a bad idea to try to spin the car with that still on. wacko.gif



The thing that came to my mind was how am I going to work on the car when its upside down anyway? Not much.. Just having it rotated about 90 degrees allowed me to do the pan and all grinding.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 19 2017, 08:57 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 19 2017, 07:42 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 19 2017, 06:35 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 19 2017, 07:05 AM) *

On mine I decided I really didn't want to risk something as you described so I just put stops so that my car will only rotate 90 degrees from sitting flat each direction. This allows me to still do all underside body work with out as much danger..


Another good idea. cheer.gif I won't be able to get a full 90 degrees due to the clearance, but it might be close enough to get underpan work done. I think I'll explore this option first, since it would be easiest. First, I need to get the frunk lid off. I learned it is a bad idea to try to spin the car with that still on. wacko.gif



The thing that came to my mind was how am I going to work on the car when its upside down anyway? Not much.. Just having it rotated about 90 degrees allowed me to do the pan and all grinding.


I don't know what I was thinking. Of course I can get 90 degrees! It's right there in the photo. I just can't get 360, and like you said, who cares? Stops will be going in today. Easy peasy!

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 19 2017, 10:10 AM

I'm right there with you on the pucker factor when trying to get the car high enough to be rotisseried. I'm thinking a nice mid rise lift might be justified!

Your car is coming right along.
(and yes, I'll get that window to you soon...)

MerryHappy! santa_smiley.gif

Posted by: bbrock Dec 19 2017, 10:38 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 19 2017, 09:10 AM) *

I'm right there with you on the pucker factor when trying to get the car high enough to be rotisseried. I'm thinking a nice mid rise lift might be justified!

Your car is coming right along.
(and yes, I'll get that window to you soon...)

MerryHappy! santa_smiley.gif


I looked hard at rotisserie designs with built-in lifts. Of course, hydraulic rams can be used but I really liked designs that had a worm-drive winch in each end because it would be cheap. There were some really nice web sits out there but photobucket has F'd them up. sad.gif And I just now thought of this.. I'll bet I could have gotten my neighbor to put forks on his skid steer and lift this sucker. IPB Image

No rush on the window. As you can see, I'm nowhere close to putting glass in. wreath.gif

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2017, 02:26 PM

The Seamy Underbelly

Got a good start on pulling the old rusty floor off. Of course, I made a mistake. I had saved my last Rotabroach cutter and pilot bit for this task; thinking it would get me through the project since this is the last set of spot welds I'll need to cut. I grossly underestimated the number of spot welds in the floor. I babied the cutter as best I could, dipping the cutter in Blair's special wax-based lubricant after each weld, and keeping the drill speed nice and low. Still, after 60-80 spot welds, it went dull. I pulled out my last HF POS spot weld cutter to finish the section I was trying to remove. After about a dozen welds, the piece of stromberg.gif shattered. I flipped the cutter over and got another half dozen spots cut before the piece of stromberg.gif shattered on the other side. But it was just enough to pull a section off and reveal all the crud in the tunnel.

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Checked to see if I could pick up some Rotabroach locally. No luck, closest dealer is in Billings (150 miles). Ordered a new set from Amazon. With holidays, they won't be here until Wednesday. No biggie, there is plenty to do to keep me busy. But I couldn't resist clamping up the replacement to see how it looks.

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Flanges on the RD panel are wider than stock, which is probably good, but will need to be trimmed. Looks nice though. smile.gif

BTW, I'm really digging the 4-bolt brake system on the rotisserie. With all 4 bolts tightened down, you can't budge the tub. To spin the tub, you open both bolts on one end all the way, then loosen the other two just enough that you have to use a bit of muscle to spin. It provides the perfect friction to position it just where you want it without worrying it is going to get away from you. Let go, and it just stays. I can't take credit, this is Rich Casto's design.

And for those who are snow deprived for the holidays, maybe a couple winter shots. Here's a pair of pine grosbeaks on our feeder just now.

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and a fox from our front window a couple weeks ago.

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wreath.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 22 2017, 02:29 PM

FLOOR IT, BABY!!!! lol-2.gif

MerryHappy to you and yours, my friend.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2017, 02:31 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Dec 22 2017, 01:29 PM) *

FLOOR IT, BABY!!!! lol-2.gif

MerryHappy to you and yours, my friend.


Right back at you! santa_smiley.gif

Posted by: mb911 Dec 22 2017, 03:04 PM

The flange is longer then stock on the floor pans.. I figured when I spray seam sealer it would not be noticed.

Posted by: burton73 Dec 22 2017, 03:09 PM

Brent,

You really showed your fine talents on how to put a car back in proper restoration.

Next year should find you with a finished very nice 73 that will be as good or better than it was the day you got married.

I mite say stay thirsty my friend but I think I will say, stay warm my friend.

Happy holidays to you, yours and Montana.


Bob B

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2017, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 22 2017, 02:04 PM) *

The flange is longer then stock on the floor pans.. I figured when I spray seam sealer it would not be noticed.


On mine, the flanges are a bit wider than the recess in the bottom the longs. Trimming will be needed to make it fit nice and tight. Otherwise, I'd do exactly the same as you.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2017, 03:36 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Dec 22 2017, 02:09 PM) *

Brent,

You really showed your fine talents on how to put a car back in proper restoration.

Next year should find you with a finished very nice 73 that will be as good or better than it was the day you got married.

I mite say stay thirsty my friend but I think I will say, stay warm my friend.

Happy holidays to you, yours and Montana.


Bob B



Thanks Bob! I'll take your advice as I head out to plow the driveway in a few. Happy holidays to you and yours as well!

Posted by: mb911 Dec 22 2017, 05:44 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 22 2017, 01:30 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 22 2017, 02:04 PM) *

The flange is longer then stock on the floor pans.. I figured when I spray seam sealer it would not be noticed.


On mine, the flanges are a bit wider than the recess in the bottom the longs. Trimming will be needed to make it fit nice and tight. Otherwise, I'd do exactly the same as you.



With the indents in the long.???

Posted by: bbrock Dec 22 2017, 06:46 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 22 2017, 04:44 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 22 2017, 01:30 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Dec 22 2017, 02:04 PM) *

The flange is longer then stock on the floor pans.. I figured when I spray seam sealer it would not be noticed.


On mine, the flanges are a bit wider than the recess in the bottom the longs. Trimming will be needed to make it fit nice and tight. Otherwise, I'd do exactly the same as you.



With the indents in the long.???


Yep. Here are a couple of pics of it. Measured the original floor and the flanges are 1.5cm wide where the RD flanges are 2.5cm. I'll just trim 1cm off and everything should be good.


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Posted by: tygaboy Dec 22 2017, 08:07 PM

FWIW, I needed to trim my RD rear floor exactly that same way.

Posted by: mb911 Dec 23 2017, 06:16 AM

Oh makes sense

Posted by: bbrock Dec 23 2017, 09:12 PM

A Good Stiff Member

I can't cut any more of the floor pan off until my new Rotabroaches arrive, so I got bored and decided to play with my member... I mean... the center member across the floor pan blush.gif It had rusted away around the e-brake switch.

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But before I could get very far, I had an unpleasant task to complete. A few days ago, my air compressor started leaking. I tracked it down to a stuck check valve but the valve wouldn't budge, so I left it to soak with penetrating oil for a couple days. So, this morning I went out to the unheated shed that contains the compressor and went to work. It was 5 degrees F, that's -15C for those of you who live in first world countries. A.K.A. "cold as shit." Fingers froze pretty quick but I managed to get the check valve out. It was packed with fuzz and stuck open. A frickin' mouse had crawled inside the compressor housing and made a nest. Somehow, that shit got sucked through the cylinder and into the check valve. It has an air filter to supposedly prevent such things, but it obviously didn't work. Shitty design. Of course, that meant I had to tear the think apart to clean out all the crap. With the cold temps, I had to warm up the plastic shroud with a heat gun so it didn't just shatter when I unsnapped it. Got all the crap cleaned out and put back together. It wasn't too bad except a couple of itty bitty screws that were a bear to get in with frozen fingers. But I got the job done and hands warmed up. I'll need to do some rodent proofing of that shed, but not today.

So back to work on the rusty old member. Fabbed a new end for it.

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Turned out pretty good. I'll need to cut out a hole for the e-brake switch but there wasn'e enough left of the old piece to provide a location guide, and the switch disentegrated. Thought about using one of the door switches as a guide but decided to just wait until I have a new switch in hand to make sure it is located correctly.

Next was the long process of prepping the member and trimming a little at a time to sneak up on a good fit.

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That'll do. Welded it in place.

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And smooth it down.

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Seems like I'm getting a lot less shrink since I changed the diodes in the welder. cool_shades.gif I left the plug welds on the longitude flanges for later. No reason to weld overhead when the car is on a whirly-gig thingy.

That took most of the day. We have company coming tomorrow so I needed to knock off a little early to do some major cleaning since the project has spread from the garage and into the house. beer3.gif

Posted by: euro911 Dec 23 2017, 11:17 PM

Man, you're doing a magnificent job on every aspect of the restoration, Brent aktion035.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Dec 24 2017, 08:32 AM

Really nice fab/welding - a job well done! You're doing a great job on your build.

Brent + sawzall-smiley.gif + welder.gif = smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: bbrock Dec 29 2017, 05:42 PM

Back in Hell

I went a little A.D.D on Christmas day. Started out planning to work on repairing the lower inner firewall. It only took about 30 minutes to have a good start on a fabricated patch.

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But after moving the outer engine mount piece out of my way for the fifth time, I decided, dammit, I'm going to get that out of my way for good. You might recall that I mentioned the section of my fabricated inner long under the outer mount not mating perfectly. I had skipped welding that bit until I could flip the car up for better access to address the issue.

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That also caused the mount to fit poorly. I was hoping I could just chase that flange into place with a hammer, but the double-walled construction locks things together very stiffly and it wouldn't budge. So I cut out the divot I had banged into the inner long to fit the mount to relieve stress, and now I see I didn't get a pic of it opened up. But it was a bit of a shock to open up the frame and find nothing but clean, solid steel and epoxy primer. Just doing that brought the clam shells together so it just took a little hammer and dolly to bring the inner to mate perfectly with the outer. I must have built up some stress welding in the inner wall on the first round.

This pic doesn't look great because I left the fabricated flange long and ragged so I could trim it back flush with the RD piece after everything was together. But the two pieces now fit perfectly together.

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I finished plug welding that section but forgot to snap a pic. Next was the job of patching that hole. I needed to make two patches with that indent for the engine mount nested to form the double wall. I've been wanting to buy a metal shaping shot bag for just this sort of thing, but never did. So, it was time to improvise. I snooped around and found an old, partially used bag of mortar mix and a freebie tarp from HF.

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I wrapped the mortar in the tarp and, walla! Redneck Shot Bag tooth.gif I alternated between banging on the hillbilly bag and the anvil, intermingled with a few tweaks on the stretcher until I had something close to the shape I was after.

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At that point, I was able to use the mount itself as a hammer form for final adjustment. Light taps only so as not to ding up the mount.

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Then I repeated this to make another piece that nested inside the first. Got too busy for pics. Next, I did a little surgery to cut the outer skin wider than the inner so I could stagger the welds between layers. Hey! There's that pic of the open hole.

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I needed to match the patch to the channel bead in the original. I cheated by forming a little scrap to the profile of the channel and welding it to the patch.

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After welding the patch to the inner wall, I ground out the material over the scrap to reveal the channel. The next couple pics are disappointing because I had to use a flash which distorted the perspective and makes things look horrible. It isn't beautiful, but it doesn't look THIS bad. Anyway, it is strong and I'll probably be dead before anyone ever sees it again.

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And here's a pic with the outer skin laid in place. Again, the flash messes things up. To my brain, this pic looks like up is down and down is up. I left the outer edge ragged so I could cut it flush with another piece welded to the bottom.

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That's where I left it on Christmas. Wednesday, I welded up the outer patch and mixed up 3 tablespoons of DP50 epoxy primer to paint the inner long and inside of the mount. Here it is almost ready to weld. After this pic, I sanded off the epoxy from the areas that would be plug welded and sprayed with U-Pol copper.

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And here's the mount in place and before cleaning up any of the welds.

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My new rotabroaches arrived a day early, but I haven't had time to use them yet. I'll probably cut out some spot welds tonight before sitting down for movie night.

Posted by: bbrock Dec 30 2017, 06:50 PM

Flo No Mo

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Posted by: mb911 Dec 30 2017, 07:56 PM

Looking good.. Your catching up to me.. I better get mine in gear.

Posted by: andrewb Dec 31 2017, 01:09 AM

What are the little yellow tags you've left hanging on the car ?
I just know there'll be a good reason and I want to copy it smile.gif

Posted by: bbrock Dec 31 2017, 09:50 AM

QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 31 2017, 12:09 AM) *

What are the little yellow tags you've left hanging on the car ?
I just know there'll be a good reason and I want to copy it smile.gif


Those are my to-do reminders; mostly for tasks that were left undone because they would be easier when the car was repositioned on the rotisserie, or have to wait until some other task is completed. Picked a pack of these tags up at Staples and figured bright yellow dangly things would be hard to ignore.

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Posted by: andrewb Dec 31 2017, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Dec 31 2017, 05:50 PM) *

QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 31 2017, 12:09 AM) *

What are the little yellow tags you've left hanging on the car ?
I just know there'll be a good reason and I want to copy it smile.gif


Those are my to-do reminders; mostly for tasks that were left undone because they would be easier when the car was repositioned on the rotisserie, or have to wait until some other task is completed. Picked a pack of these tags up at Staples and figured bright yellow dangly things would be hard to ignore.

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Good idea - I'll be doing the same - and apols for calling you Brett earlier. Now corrected.


Posted by: bbrock Jan 2 2018, 12:05 AM

QUOTE(andrewb @ Dec 31 2017, 04:35 PM) *

- and apols for calling you Brett earlier. Now corrected.


Ha, that happens so often, I didn't even notice. beerchug.gif

Kind of random progress

Started out yesterday harvesting bits from the old floor pan and circled back to end today bead blasting them. Combined with the two bungs and 4 carpet buttons I got from Garold, I'm good to go.

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I decided to harvest the seat hinges too, even though I'll be installing a new set from RD. I'm glad I did though. Otherwise, I probably would have forgotten this little cable clip for the seat belt sensor.

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After a couple weeks of sub-zero temps, we got a nice inversion yesterday so it was a balmy 21F up here on the mountain, even thought it hovered at, or below zero all day down in Bozeman. Not wanting to waste the nice sunshine, I hauled the car outside for some sun and sand, Montana style. I wasn't sure how well blasting would work in the cold, but it actually worked better than when it was warm.

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I blasted the tunnel and inside the firewalls with crushed glass until I ran out of media. Normally, I would have just recovered most of the media from the tarp and sieved it for another go, but there was no keeping snow out of it, so it will need to be dried before it can be used again. Got the job mostly done but need to make another round.

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Headed to a New Year's Eve party early enough to pick up a couple more bags of media at the lumber yard, only to find they had closed early for the holiday. headbang.gif

So this morning, I dove into a task I have been dreading - fixing the corrosion where the hood release handle mounts thanks to years of mouse and weasel piss.

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But with the floor out, access would never be better. The corrosion from the fuel tank side was so bad I had to reference the PET just to figure out what kind of fasteners I was dealing with.

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I cursed when I read they are pan head screws, but the gods were merciful today so after heating them with a torch yesterday and soaking them in penetrating oil overnight, they came loose with vice grips without much fight.

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Now the challenge of fabricating a compound curved piece for that spot. I sharted by just hand bending the main part of the patch where the handle will mount.

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I've come close to buying or making a good set of stake dollies but couldn't quite justify the expense for just a couple parts. If I had them, I would have tried to hammer out the shape by forming tucks and shrinking them, but I gave up on that, and just made some relief cuts to form bends. It's starting to get there in this shot.

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And then, just as things were getting interesting, my welding helmet lost its Mo Jo. headbang.gif Batteries went dead. I put the helmet outside over lunch to see if they would recharge, but no luck. I thought these were supposed to go dark when the batteries died, mine didn't. I didn't have any spares and it wasn't worth a special trip to town. So that was it for welding for the day. Still some work to do on the patch, but not looking too bad.

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I ground off all the spot weld tits from the floor flange, and then put on my X-country skis and played outside for awhile. After that, I finished the day by bead blasting the parts harvested from the floor yesterday.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 7 2018, 12:20 AM

A whole week for a 6"x9" patch

On Monday, I got my welding helmet squared away and was back to work on the patch for the frunk cable pull mount under the dash. I'm not going to lie, this was a giant B and I had my doubts I could pull it off. It was so hard, I didn't take any progress picks because I was just floundering my way through. I got the patch shaped up pretty well and welded into place on Monday. On Wednesday, outside temps actually climbed above freezing for the first time in over a month, so I wheeled the rig outside for another round of media blasting. I got the tunnel and cross member cleaned up, then blasted both sides of the weasel latrine area I was patching. Of course, a big area beyond what I thought needed patch blew out into Swiss cheese. I spent a bunch of time zapping all the little holes shut with the welder, but when I had finished, it looked like crap so I cut it all out and started on a second patch to extend the first. Simpler curves on the second patch, so not as hard to shape, but it required a lot of tacking and tapping shape the patch as I welded to make it work. I finally got it in place and started the LONG process of grinding and then welding up exposed pinholes. Access to that area is terrible, even with the floor pan fully off. Then there is the cable tube for the trunk release, and fuse box brackets to add extra challenge and interfere with the welding gun and grinding tools. This was just a case of globing on melted steel and then sculpting with a cutoff wheel to pretend the welds weren't shitty. The whole time I kept thinking that Ben would probably flunk me on this assignment. Finally, I got things welded and shaped to something close to what I was after.

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Of course, the real test was whether the trunk pull mount would fit. Luckily, it did.

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I didn't get too carried away smoothing welds that will be buried under seam sealer, and I'm not going to beat myself up too bad over needing a little FG reinforced filler to fill pin holes and a few minor rough spots. But after final grinding with a conditioning disk, it isn't too bad. A thin skim of filler and the repair should dissapear completely.

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Boy, am I glad that is done!

Posted by: euro911 Jan 7 2018, 12:44 AM

You're doing amazing fixes, dude.

Looking at your open tunnel pix, I think both my accelerator & clutch tubes need some attention near the rear firewall/bulkhead. I think the best approach is to cut out a couple squares from the underside to deal with them. then weld patches & shoot undercoating on them when done confused24.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jan 7 2018, 01:03 AM

Thanks. Now that I've fully dissected this tunnel, I think you are right on your proposed plan. I think you could cut off fairly large sections of tunnel from the underside and weld them back in pretty seamlessly. Luckily, the only tube repair needed on mine was a quick zap with the welder on the accelerator cable tube to fix a small nicked from the cutoff wheel getting the floor off. That tube rides right down on the tunnel floor right where I cut. headbang.gif

Posted by: euro911 Jan 7 2018, 01:08 PM

When you get a chance, could you shoot a pic of this area showing the accelerator cable tube? ... I can't see where it ends at the front unsure.gif

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Posted by: bbrock Jan 7 2018, 05:03 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 7 2018, 12:08 PM) *

When you get a chance, could you shoot a pic of this area showing the accelerator cable tube? ... I can't see where it ends at the front unsure.gif



You bet. It is hiding under the clutch cable tube. Notice also that the accelator cable tube runs through its own reinforcement jacket and all the tubes are brazed in place rather than welded. I should have turned flash on for this pic, but hopefully you can see all the important bits okay.

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Also, there are a couple of those thin metal cable wraps for the fuel lines on the floor of the tunnel, so you will want to pay attention to those when you are cutting for access. beerchug.gif

Posted by: euro911 Jan 7 2018, 05:44 PM

Perfect, Brent - thank you ... exactly what I needed to see.

I'm tempted to extend the accelerator cable tube more forward, as I believe the cable has somehow wrapped itself around the hose for the hydraulic clutch set up that's running through the clutch cable's tube and causing the drag.

I'll definitely heed your caution on cutting into the area idea.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jan 7 2018, 09:11 PM

Pedal area

I only worked a few hours on the car today. After the intensity of the trunk cable pull mount, I wanted to do something easy, yet satisfying today. So I decided to tackle the rust hole in the floor under the pedal area that won't be covered by the RD floor pan.

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I wanted to replicate the original circular indentaion, so I made a very simple hammer form by cutting a hole with a hole saw in a 1/4" piece of birch plywood. The disc cutout is the same diameter as the metal discs that were seam sealed into those indents to plug U-shaped drain slits (I assuming for dipping the chassis).

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Hammer forming was a simple matter of placing a piece of 18 gauge sheet over the hole, placing the disc on top, and hammering the disc into the hole. Took about 3 minutes. I also did some simple bending on the vice to match the beading, and a little hammer to match some curves around the edges, and I had a nice patch.

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Then it was simply a matter of trimming the opening and welding in place with a few hammer taps here and there to fine tune the shape as I went for a perfect fit. I missed a couple areas while media blasting and intended to hit those with a flapper disc before welding, but I forgot. It caused a little sputter while welding, but not too bad.

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Then carefully grinding down the welds and finishing up with a conditioning disc to blend the joint, and it doesn't look half bad except my old, cheap, Campbell-Hausfeld die grinder that has been abused for 30 years died on me, so I won't be able to grind the weld on the inside until I replace it.

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The last of the wire needed to finish my wire harnessed was delivered yesterday, so I might work on that tonight.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 9 2018, 01:13 PM

Just got back from a trip to the doctor:

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I know what you are thinking... that the dumbass wasn't wearing safety glasses. But I'm very careful to wear all the appropriate eye, hearing, and respiratory equipment. I finished my day of working on my car Saturday without incident. Later, I laid down on my back and felt a shower of crap fall from my eyebrows and into both eyes. I immediately got up and rinsed my eyes with saline but they still burned. I figured I must have scratched both corneas and they would heal. My eyes were pretty goopy on Sunday but I still managed to work some on the car. By yesterday, my right eye was healed but the left was getting worse. This morning, I noticed a black spec on my left eye that wouldn't come off with rinsing. So to the doctor, I went. Hopefully I'll be good as new in a day or so. But all this because I didn't wash my damn face after finishing work on the car. WTF.gif

Posted by: euro911 Jan 9 2018, 03:14 PM

Coincidentally, yesterday we had to take our 19 y/o Dachshund to the vet for the same reason, scratched cornea ... although she wasn't working on a car when it happened rolleyes.gif

Posted by: bretth Jan 9 2018, 04:55 PM

I got a tiny piece of rust stuck in my eye just from laying under a car and looking up into the frame one time. Just fell with gravity and they had to use the 'eye drill' to get it out. Hope you heal soon and continue with the great work you are doing.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 9 2018, 08:26 PM

yikes.gif "eye" and "drill" are not two words that should be in the same sentence! Luckily, no such procedure for me. Just numbed it up and used a micro-spatula to scoop it off.

Hope the pup is doing better Mark. My eye sure is.

Posted by: mbseto Jan 10 2018, 02:52 PM

My wife would never let me live something like that down. She always bugs me to groom my eyebrows. I just let them go wild. Didn't realize it was a safety issue...

Posted by: bbrock Jan 10 2018, 03:01 PM

QUOTE(mbseto @ Jan 10 2018, 01:52 PM) *

My wife would never let me live something like that down. She always bugs me to groom my eyebrows. I just let them go wild. Didn't realize it was a safety issue...


Yeah, mine has recently started commenting on my wild eyebrows. Looks like I'm off to the eye specialist this afternoon. Thought I had this behind me, but then it got worse again. I think I've still got something scraping around in there. Hoping they don't have to break out the "eye drill."

Posted by: porschetub Jan 10 2018, 03:53 PM

eye drill !! the thought makes me almost barf.gif .
Bummer that happened after how well those repairs turned out ,feel for you did the same myself years ago....bloody painful,get well soon.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 10 2018, 07:33 PM

I'm happy to report I have no more shit in my eye and NO DRILLS piratenanner.gif Doc says I should be at 90% by Friday. If they'd just send me home with a bottle of that Lidocaine for numbing, I'd be at 100% right now. Still have to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

Posted by: mb911 Jan 10 2018, 07:44 PM

I have had this happen many times.. I now make sure I shower right after working on the car and grinding etc or wash my face at the least.

Also just bought some of kevlar reinforced filler yesterday specific for sealing all the weld joints.. I have a friend that does some pretty nice restos and swears by it and he goes right to bare metal then regular filler then epoxy over that.. He has had fantastic results.. I am still debating that..

Posted by: bbrock Jan 11 2018, 10:17 PM

Back at it
My eye healed up enough to get back to work on the car this evening. Not much, but good to be making progress again. I've been debating how to treat the rusted lower edge and weld flanges of the firewall and floor cross brace where seam sealer had trapped moisture. The firewall definitely needs a couple patches, but there was generally mild pitting and several pin holes along most of the length of the firewall and brace. They were borderline, but replacing the entire lower edges seemed like overkill. So, I used a copper backing plate and turned down the MIG to low and started zapping pinholes and filling the deepest pits. It seemed kind of like cutting corners, but ultimately, I think the result is more sound and definitely less time consuming than several feet of butt welds.

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Now I can get back to the firewall patches I started a couple weeks ago.

Posted by: mb911 Jan 12 2018, 06:17 AM

Mine was a bit worse so i had to do several feet of butt welds..

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 12 2018, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 10 2018, 05:33 PM) *

I'm happy to report I have no more shit in my eye and NO DRILLS piratenanner.gif Doc says I should be at 90% by Friday. If they'd just send me home with a bottle of that Lidocaine for numbing, I'd be at 100% right now. Still have to laugh at the absurdity of the whole thing.

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jan 15 2018, 12:36 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2018, 03:11 PM) *

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif


Dangit! Now I'm bummed I didn't get the drill!

But how about an update? Friday, I finally got around to repairing the turn signal lens that broke when the shelf of parts bins collapsed months ago.

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I wound up using aircraft paint stripper to solvent bond the pieces together. It is basically gelled methyl chloride which is the stuff used to solvent weld acrylic. It makes a good, strong bond.

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You'd never know it was ever busted.

Come On Baby Light My Firewall

Lot's of little repairs needed before the floor can go in. Saturday started off a bit rocky as I fired up the cutting wheel and almost immediately, some piece of crap bounced at a weird angle and shot behind the side shield of my very expensive prescription safety glasses, and into the same damn eye!!! fyou1.gif Luckily, a quick rinse with saline got it out without doing more damage to my already traumatized cornea.

First on the agenda was the firewall repairs I started a couple weeks ago. Both inside lower corners were rusted.

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To fit patches, I needed to fit the floor panel in place. So, I trimmed the flanges down to correct size, and clamped and zip screwed the rear panel in. It looks so nice, it is tempting to start welding it in. But there is a lot of work that needs to be done before I'm ready for that.

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Here are the patches.

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And the repairs

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Working around those brazed in e-brake cable tubes was loads of fun. There are a few boogers in the welds because I was getting some sort of contamination causing the pool to bubble. The metal is clean on both sides so I don't know what caused it. But it got worse the closer I got to that braze joint so I wonder if it was brass spatter? confused24.gif Anyway, I probably could have fixed it for a completely invisible joint, but decided to let sleeping dogs lie. That booger down by the tube looks worse in this pic, but I may go in with the Dremel to clean it out. I might also touch up the braze when I braze in the air vent tubes in the door jambs.

Here's the backside of that patch. I ground it down a little after this pic was taken, but didn't get too carried away. It will be hidden and I didn't want to risk nicking those tubes.

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As a side note, here's a comparison of Eastwood's rattle can 2K epoxy primer vs. PPG DPFL50. Eastwood is the first pic. Notice how the paint scraped off when I fished that heater tube through the long and firewall. The PPG painted tube is unscathed (well, not quite. There is a scrape where I nicked it with a cutting wheel. Can't blame the paint for that). The Eastwood paint also has a chalkier feel to it whereas the PPG is like armor. I'm not impressed with the Eastwood product.

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Next up were some dinky little patches on the corners of the lower outer firewall. I'll only show the larger one. This one was tricker than I expected because the firewall curves in two directions here. I couple taps with the shrinker and stretcher made it work. The other side was shorter so I was able to just do a straight patch. I only ground these enough to remove any MIG whiskers since they will be buried under seam sealer and they aren't very accessuible for grinding.

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Next, I reworked some of the weld on the inner long and ran over the whole thing with the shrinking disc since access would never be better. I'm pretty ashamed of those welds. Structurally, they are strong, but no pretty. Luckily, my skills have improved since then. Now I'm mediocre. The instruction booklet that comes with the shrinking disc says it is NOT magic. But it's the closest thing to real magic I've ever witnessed. It's really amazing how a warbly surfaces tightens up and straightens out after using this thing... like magic.

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A couple of small repairs to flanges were needed. Those were quick and easy. One on the inner firewall.

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And one on the cross member. I guess I didn't take pics of that one.

Finally, a small section at the front of the tunnel next to the pedals had rusted out at the bottom. Again, I forgot to take a pic of the damage. But here's the repair.

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Still a few things to do before the floor goes in, but getting close. Getting close to an exciting milestone is a danger point. I have to keep myself in check to not get over eager and skip a step. Take deep breaths, slow down, and think it through.

Posted by: cary Jan 15 2018, 08:32 AM

Looks like a productive weekend.
Keep up the good work.

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 15 2018, 11:50 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Jan 12 2018, 02:11 PM) *

The eye drill is psychedelic. It's just a rubber disc that rotates and snags the metal piece. It's a fantastic light show when it's swirling. 20 different colors blossom in a kaleidoscopic pattern. Unbelievable effect. I don't know why the brain see's this in this manner but it is beautiful. BTDT. beerchug.gif


Ssssssh.....the feds will hear about it and make it illegal. smoke.gif

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 15 2018, 12:03 PM

Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD

Posted by: bbrock Jan 15 2018, 12:09 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 15 2018, 11:03 AM) *

Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD


Glad you mentioned that. I was contemplating that over the weekend. All the braze joints on all the tubes look in great shape with no stress fractures, but still, I was thinking how much it would suck to have one of them break after getting this thing all together. I'll do some searching on how others have done this, but any tips on the best way to reinforce would be appreciated. Of course, I'll also be treating the tunnel with Jasco and spraying with epoxy primer before buttoning things up too.

Thanks for reminding me not to neglect this task.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 16 2018, 09:04 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Jan 15 2018, 11:03 AM) *

Since you have the tunnel apart and access from the inside, it might be a really good time to reinforce the clutch tube mounting points. Having the tube break loose is a distressingly common thing in 914s...

--DD


It's a Series of Tubes
Dave probably saved my a$$. At lunch yesterday, I took another look at my clutch tube and found one of the braze joints at the front end cracked and the tube wiggling around a little. You can see it in the first pic below. I'm sure it wasn't cracked Sunday morning when I inspected all the tubes. I'm guessing all the vibration cutting out the patch on the front of the tunnel created the crack. That's probably how the failure starts.

I read up on clutch tube repairs, and was particularly looking for info on failure modes to understand how to prevent. Lot's of reading available, but I found http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=64569&view=findpost&p=822644 particularly helpful. Mark S., if you haven't seen it, you should check it out before beginning your repair. It might save you cutting into the floor of your tunnel. It looks like the main failures are caused by the bracket breaking loose at the front, or rusting out where it passes through the firewall at the rear. The problem at the front looks to be more a problem with the brazing used to attach the bracket than the bracket itself. So, my solution up threre was just to turn the welder down low and sneak a bunch of tack welds in around the brazing. I slipped a drill bit the same size at the tube I.D. to make sure the tube stayed round and the correct dimension.

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I think this should be sufficient to keep the tube attached to the bracket and bracket attached to the wall with no flexing to lead to metal fatigue.

On the rear, I made a little bracket to add additional attachment support beyond just the firewall.

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The bracket is tack welded to the tube, the firewall, and the two bottom tabs will be plug welded to the floor when it is installed.

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Hopefully this will prevent a future crisis, but opinions are welcome. I'm also going to treat the insides of the tubes with Jasco and after the chassis is painted, I'll pull a swab soaked with Teflon dry lube through them.

Posted by: euro911 Jan 16 2018, 01:58 PM

The front of the clutch cable tube on my '75 had been 'repaired' by a PO with a brace that was bolted in to secure it in place. The rear of the tube has definitely broken loose from the firewall, so that's the area I'll focus on first.

I also want to install a J-West RennShift lever, so I'll probably remove the entire shift rod assembly, allowing me to inspect the tunnel better with an inspection camera - it's pretty cluttered in there right now and hard to see very well. Pretty sure I'll have to cut out a section of the floor of the tunnel to effect tube repair at the firewall.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 16 2018, 03:12 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 16 2018, 12:58 PM) *

The front of the clutch cable tube on my '75 had been 'repaired' by a PO with a brace that was bolted in to secure it in place. The rear of the tube has definitely broken loose from the firewall, so that's the area I'll focus on first.

I also want to install a J-West RennShift lever, so I'll probably remove the entire shift rod assembly, allowing me to inspect the tunnel better with an inspection camera - it's pretty cluttered in there right now and hard to see very well. Pretty sure I'll have to cut out a section of the floor of the tunnel to effect tube repair at the firewall.


Well, it was worth a shot. I agree, I didn't see anything for the firewall end that would provide a shortcut. But when I read the technique for drilling small holes in the side of the tunnel to plug weld the front bracket back to the wall, it gave me hope for you project.

Posted by: euro911 Jan 16 2018, 05:21 PM

Oh, I definitely appreciate all the tips and recommendations, Brent. Since I'll be cutting into the tunnel anyway, I may go ahead and do a better fix on the front tube support 'while I'm in there'.

I've been fortunate in that there wasn't much rust on the car, and most has been dealt with - nowhere near what you've had to work on ... it's just those last little nagging bits left to address sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Your progress thread has been very educational and an inspiration to many of us beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jan 16 2018, 09:06 PM

Just a couple little tasks to update. Yesterday I started working on a patch for the driver's front inner wheel well where it meets the long. I left those open on both sides, thinking I'd use them for access inside the longs to spray cavity wax. But they aren't really needed and I need to patch them before the floor can go in.

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Nothing very eventful other than I ran out of time before finishing grinding, but finished that up tonight.

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Still a couple shrink dinks in there which is frustrating, but close to invisible.

While I was over there, I glued this piece back on with a little BB Weld, mostly just to have one less loose piece rattling around in the shop. I still need to fab a new rocker bracket there that will include a patch for a small rust spot further up in the wheel well, but that can wait.

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I wore out my last grinding disc so will have to finish grinding later, and frankly, I was getting pretty sick of grinding so needed to do something else.

So, I moved over to the other inner wheel well to start on that patch. It is the last patch needed before the floor goes in. You probably don't remember this one, but I sure do. This is the patch I spent a lot of time on and really struggled - and ultimately, through the patch away. I punted by patching only the part I needed to do the longitude repair; hoping my skills would improve by the time I circled back around to it. I doubt they have. I know my toolkit hasn't improved.

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I got this far with the patch:

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Then I realized I wasn't just tired of grinding, I was just tired. I need to be fresh to tackle this next patch. So I shoved all my crap up under the car so my wife could get her car in the garage when she got home, and called it a night.

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Posted by: bbrock Jan 16 2018, 09:08 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Jan 16 2018, 04:21 PM) *

Oh, I definitely appreciate all the tips and recommendations, Brent. Since I'll be cutting into the tunnel anyway, I may go ahead and do a better fix on the front tube support 'while I'm in there'.

I've been fortunate in that there wasn't much rust on the car, and most has been dealt with - nowhere near what you've had to work on ... it's just those last little nagging bits left to address sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif

Your progress thread has been very educational and an inspiration to many of us beerchug.gif


Thanks for the kind words Mark. I think if it is inspirational, it should only be for showing how far stubbornness can compensate for lack of tools and skill. But it's getting there.

Posted by: marksteinhilber Jan 17 2018, 03:06 PM

Yep, your firewall repairs are very similar to what I did over the last couple years. It's coming along great& #33;Attached ImageAttached ImageAttached Image[attachmentid
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Posted by: bbrock Jan 17 2018, 04:35 PM

QUOTE(marksteinhilber @ Jan 17 2018, 02:06 PM) *

Yep, your firewall repairs are very similar to what I did over the last couple years. It's coming along great!


Sweet! Nice to see I'm in good company!

Posted by: bbrock Jan 18 2018, 11:37 PM

Banishing Rust
I'm getting closer to spraying primer before the floor goes in. Yesterday before work, I sprayed all the tunnel internals and weld flanges with Jasco and let it sit for the day. For inside the tubes, I ran a piece of bailing wire through and then hooked on a small patch of rag soaked with Jasco, then pulled the rag through the tube. I repeated that several times for each tube. The rag came out pretty rusty looking the first time through the clutch tube. After work, I sprayed everything lightly again to reactive the acid, then I rinsed with water to neutralize. I repeated the tube treatment, but with water.

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Tonight, I scrubbed all the loose phosphate off with a red Scotch Brite pad. This is the before pic.

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And the Words of the Prophet are Written on the Forum Walls

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 16 2018, 08:06 PM) *

This is the patch I spent a lot of time on and really struggled - and ultimately, through the patch away. I punted by patching only the part I needed to do the longitude repair; hoping my skills would improve by the time I circled back around to it. I doubt they have. I know my toolkit hasn't improved.


My doubts about being able to pull off that inner wheel patch proved true. After struggling again to make the patch in one piece, I gave up and cheated by cutting off the weld flange around the curve. That made it a lot easier to make the curve, but fitting the patch was a giant PITA because there are a lot of very subtle curves that could only be fitted by tacking in a little at a time. By the time I got to the far end, the curves had widened the gap (the top in pic below). Not so far I couldn't close it with the welder, but not ideal. When I got almost finished with the welding, I peaked at the patch from inside the cabin and found the top edge (on the right in the picture below) a full thickness off. This confused me for awhile because the surfaces were perfectly flush on the other side. Then I realized the cut line for this patch went right through the weld of the old patch that had been removed. I didn't intend to do that, it was just another screw up. The upshot being that the metal was thicker there and caused the misalignment on one side.

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So tonight I got to grind that all back down, cut that weld open, and try again. Luckily, it worked this time.

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I was only able to rough grind the outside with a cutting wheel because I'm still out of grinding discs. I got the inside done by cycling back through the best of the used ones.

I still had that gap to fill where I cut off the flange, so I made a dinky little flange patch.

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I didn't like how shrinking the large patch flattened out the bottom radius, so I piled on some extra material with the welder so I could sculpt the correct radius back in. Again, compensating for lack of skill here.

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Again, rough grind only with a cutoff wheel, but you get the idea.

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Learning the Hard Way

Now I'm in the home stretch to installing the floor. Next up was dry fitting the whole floor to make the final trim at the front edge. Before this, I had only fit the rear section because I was focused on getting the profile right for the firewall flanges. Bad idea! headbang.gif When fitting these floors, you really should start at the front and work backward. When I fit the rear section, I lined up the edges of the rear flange and firewall. This positioned the panel too far forward, which I didn't know until I fit the front section and saw the overlap was too large. I'm probably the only one who would have noticed, but it threw the bead spacing off where the panels met. It wasn't a big deal to adjust, but it left me with a half dozen screw holes to zap shut, and I had to remark all the flange lines for masking before spraying primer. It is going to look nice.

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Posted by: bbrock Jan 22 2018, 01:37 PM

Floored!
Well, this is a big one. I don't think there will be another milestone like this until the chassis is all in primer.

Friday, I started prepping the floor panels for installion, starting with welding on the two little cable hold downs for the fuel lines, then mixing up a small amount of epoxy primer to brush onto the inside channels of floor and seat reinforcements and tacking them in place.

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All of Saturday was spent continuing panel prep which included: welding on seat reinforcements, cutting spot weld access holes where the bung covers will go, final fitting and trimming, punching and drilling about a billion holes for plug welds, and finishing with a good coat of epoxy primer on all the interior tunnel and member areas. This took a long time because I decided to drill the floor pans rather than punch holes in the flanges. I just thought being able to do all the welding from the under side would be better light and access, would result in better welds, easier to grind, and would leave things clean and "untouched" looking inside the cabin.

I lost track of how many times I fit and removed the pans from the chassis to get everything aligned just right and the flanges marked in the correct place. One important tip if you do this - MAKE SURE YOU DRILL ON THE CORRECT SIDE OF YOUR LINES headbang.gif It's easy to shut off your brain doing such a monotonous task and let muscle memory take over. Here is what happens.

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Getting the flanges around the wheel wells adjusted took some time. I had a minor panic attack when I fit the panel and couldn't get it to fit flush against the bottom of my fabricated longitude bottoms.

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Since this was a fabbed part, my mind immediately raced to the conclusion that I made some fundamentally humongous F-up in fabrication. But it turned out to just be a little metal spur that got left behind and was pushing the floor pan up about 1/2 inch. It just took a few taps with a body hammer to adjust things to perfect alignment. Had to do the same on the other side, but less severe. I don't know if you can even make it out in this pic, but here is the little bugger.

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Saturday ended with spraying PPG DPLF epoxy primer and Sunday began by finishing up spraying Upol copper weld-thru primer on all plug weld areas. The panels and chassis were finally ready. monkeydance.gif

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Then it was about three hours refitting panels, screwing and clamping them in place, and adjusting gaps to get everything just right. Notice that those spot weld access holes came in handy for clamping. They also let me reach in to install the little metal bars on the backs of the butt weld clamps. Not without pain and a little blood, but it worked.

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After a couple hours of welding, it looked like this at the end of the day.

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This morning, I couldn't leave it like that, so took the morning off to (almost) finish welding. I still need to plug weld the rear firewall, then grind the new panel flange flush with the old, then bead weld the edge the way the factory did - and, of course, I have a bit of grinding to do. I also still need to install the pedal reinforcement, seat mounts, and e-brake cable cover. But it is looking pretty nice. monkeydance.gif monkeydance.gif

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I think my effort drilling the pan instead of punching flanges paid off. There is still some housekeeping to do in there: welding a few holes where the rotabroach blew through, a few short bead welds on the tunnel and firewall, and some very minor grinding. Overall, I think it looks pretty clean and I won't have much grinding to do beyond the butt welds. Mostly just touching up where I filled screw holes and the few plug welds yet to be done from the inside.

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Posted by: uncle smokey Jan 22 2018, 08:19 PM

That looks great. You are inspiring me to get working on mine again.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 22 2018, 11:14 PM

Jack Points
Finished welding the rear edge of the floor this evening, and added these decorative corner pieces. Yellow tag is a reminder to run a bead weld on the inner edge when I have the car flipped over. Not a fan of welding overhead.

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And here's one for andrewb biggrin.gif

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Posted by: bbrock Jan 31 2018, 12:48 AM

Back Into Hell

I had high hopes of finishing up welding in bits on the floor pan and reinstalling all the parts in the hell hole over the weekend. Things took a lot longer than expected, so I didn't get that far. But still made some good progress.

First up was welding on the pedal support. That was pretty straightforward. The most time consuming part was mixing and applying epoxy primer to the internals of the pedal support, seat hinge brackets, and e-cable guide.

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It's been a LONG time since this area of the floor wasn't Fred Flintstone.

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Next up was welding in the seat hinge brackets. That turned out to be a bigger PITA than expected, and chewed up a lot of time. It didn't go well either. Look close and you might be able to see the inner bracket on the passenger side got cocked when I screwed it in.

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I'm blaming my cramped f'ing garage because to get the car level, I had to work with my ass smashed against a workbench against the wall. There just isn't room in there. I should have climbed inside the tub to get a better viewing angle as I welded it in. Anyway, the seat base bolts in but doesn't allow for any adjustment on the hinge bolts. So I'm going to have to tear that one out and try again. I hope I can salvage the bracket and hinge because those things are expensive. $50 to replace the bracket and hinge.

The final floor task was zapping in the e-brake cable guide. I did have to trim it down a little to be the exact size as the original, but installation was uneventful.

Next I moved to perhaps the most stressful item on the whole project - welding in the suspension console. With the new floor pan, I now had the landmark needed to measure for placement of the outer console. Factory spec is to insert a long bolt in the rear outer console hole that protrudes 182mm from the boss.

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Then measure from the center of the bolt to the center of the front edge of the rear most form bead on the floor. The RD form bead edges aren't crisp like on the original floor, and I had replaced the floor, so I didn't go exactly by the factory spec. Instead, X marked the spot at the center of the bead.

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Then I measured from the drivers side console to get my reference measurement and positioned the passenger console to match that distance. Factory spec is 846mm and my reference measurement came in at 848mm. That seems astonishingly good considering the whole floor was replaced and the bead reference location is fuzzy at best.

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As extra precaution, I also measured from the outer edge of the console bolt boss to the edge of the rear sway bar mount bolt hole and made sure the measurements were the same for both consoles.

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Then I just tacked the console in. I didn't take any progress pics because I was too stressed trying to get it right.

Next was the outer console. I used Jeff Hail's measurements to make sure the distance between consoles was right. Jeff said to triangulate from the pivot pin holes to the center hole on the firewall. I couldn't figure out what center hole he was referencing, so I measured from the driver's side to the center of the rear edge of the floor pan and matched that on the other side. After that was tacked in, I mounted the crusty trailing arm to make sure everything fit and I had adjustment for alignment. It looked good, but I won't know how badly I screwed this up until alignment time I guess.

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Last was to weld on the MiddleMotors/914Rubber console gussets.

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It took a bit to figure out since there are three pieces in the gusset kit, but only two gussets. But I figured out Cary designed one of the gussets as two pieces to ease installation. I had to grind away a little where the gusset crosses the long flange to keep it from crowding the outer console mount boss. But after welding and grinding, it looks pretty close to what the factory did.

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I just finished this tonight. When I installed these, I thought the holes were weep holes. But now I'm thinking they were intended to plug weld to position the pieces before hammering and bending. Maybe Cary will chime in, but I think I need to weld those in and drill a weep hole in the location the factory piece had.

Finally, the other side. This was a real head scratcher. After fiddling with it and comparing to the other side, I'm fairly certain the slots for the long flange are cut wrong on this piece. I'm pretty sure this is the correct orientation of this piece.

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It won't be a big deal to close those slots and cut new ones, but I want to get confirmation from the designer before moving forward. So that's where I left it tonight.

Here's a golden eagle that was hanging out on a deer carcass just a couple hundred yards from our driveway last Friday.

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Posted by: andrewb Jan 31 2018, 06:04 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jan 23 2018, 07:14 AM) *

And here's one for andrewb biggrin.gif

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Cheers Brent. Funny looking critter (the badger - not you) biggrin.gif
Our European ones are quite different.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 3 2018, 12:15 AM

Scheisse!

I spent a little time each evening this week struggling with the second gusset on the suspension console. Cary lent some much needed help figuring this out on another thread. The key was this pattern diagram that he posted.

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I scaled that image up to as close to actual size as I could get, and printed it out to make a folding template.

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The pattern was for the driver's side, but it was simply a matter of reversing the bends to fit the passenger side.

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Despite being 12 gauge steel, it didn't take long to bend the piece into close to shape using only a couple of BFHs, a vice, and an anvil. Just a little trimming and taps with a hammer, and this would work perfectly well.

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Kudos to Super-In-Law and Cary for designing this piece so it could be formed using minimal tools. That said, I have a knack for creating extra work for myself. The piece would have worked perfectly fine as a gusset for the console, but it didn't match the contour of the other side. Who would notice? Nobody! Not a damn soul.. except me. So I took another stab at it. First I made a new template using the driver's side as a pattern. Then I hammered most of the piece back flat and traced the new template onto the old part to trim it to the new profile.

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The new bend lines were tighter and more complex, so it was a bitch getting that thick steel to submit. I wound up making one relief cut to get the job done. By the time the piece had been shaped, then flattened, reshaped, cut, and shaped some more, it looked like it had been mauled by a grizzly.

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Finally, it was ready to go on. I tacked it into place and then tapped in the final shape and.... Oh hey, speaking of bears, how about a cute little black bear cub in Jellystone last spring?

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Or maybe the whole family?

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Now where was I? Oh yeah, I was about to show this. shades.gif

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Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.

Posted by: ndfrigi Feb 3 2018, 03:13 AM

this is what I did on a 71 I own before.

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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 3 2018, 08:39 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 2 2018, 10:15 PM) *

Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.


You and I, we are of a kind.

Posted by: burton73 Feb 3 2018, 12:23 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 3 2018, 06:39 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 2 2018, 10:15 PM) *

Funny how excited we can get over little pieces that nobody will ever notice.


You and I, we are of a kind.


Most of us here get excited in these very small details in both of your cars work. It truly is an art form to me. Like a parent, we know ever little detail of our kids.


Bob B
pray.gif

Posted by: mb911 Feb 3 2018, 12:48 PM

QUOTE(ndfrigi @ Feb 3 2018, 01:13 AM) *

this is what I did on a 71 I own before.

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I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?

Posted by: bbrock Feb 3 2018, 03:17 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2018, 11:48 AM) *

I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?


It's what the factory did. I'm assumig to tie the two consoles together for reinforcement. I could see where repeated hard cornering might try to tear the consoles off the long if they weren't tied together. Anyone know for sure?

Posted by: cary Feb 4 2018, 07:28 AM

A little late to the party but here's a couple shots of Super In Law's built up pieces.

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Posted by: mb911 Feb 4 2018, 08:07 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 3 2018, 01:17 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 3 2018, 11:48 AM) *

I have never looked much into these.. Is it to just reinforce that area or did I miss the rust repair area?


It's what the factory did. I'm assumig to tie the two consoles together for reinforcement. I could see where repeated hard cornering might try to tear the consoles off the long if they weren't tied together. Anyone know for sure?



Yes the factory did it and all 914s have it my question was were yours rusted away? Or were you doubling the reinforcement?


Nevermind I guess I nees to read that you installed a suspension console.. Carry on and great job

Posted by: bbrock Feb 4 2018, 10:29 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Feb 4 2018, 06:28 AM) *

A little late to the party but here's a couple shots of Super In Law's built up pieces.


Thanks for posting this. I was kicking myself for not having a comparison pic between Super In Law's design and what I ended up making. This shows how the piece flares to wider as it crosses the flange between the two consoles. The piece on the other side of my car i narrow and runs more or less straight over the flange. The other difference is that Super In Laws design took 15 minutes, tops, to form into shape. My piece took 3 hours of wearing out my arm. In the end, I'll bet both pieces work equally well as reinforcement. The only difference being cosmetic. If I were to do it over, I might follow Jack's lead on the other side and split that piece into 2 or 3 parts and weld them together. Still a lot more work though.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 4 2018, 10:31 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 4 2018, 07:07 AM) *

Yes the factory did it and all 914s have it my question was were yours rusted away? Or were you doubling the reinforcement?


Nevermind I guess I nees to read that you installed a suspension console.. Carry on and great job


Ah, yes. I was pretty sure I had misunderstood your question. Yeah, as Hell Holes go, my was up there with some of the most hellish we've seen.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 4 2018, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 4 2018, 08:31 AM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 4 2018, 07:07 AM) *

Yes the factory did it and all 914s have it my question was were yours rusted away? Or were you doubling the reinforcement?


Nevermind I guess I nees to read that you installed a suspension console.. Carry on and great job


Ah, yes. I was pretty sure I had misunderstood your question. Yeah, as Hell Holes go, my was up there with some of the most hellish we've seen.



We are in similar stages.. Almost ready for a shutz gun and seam sealer..

Posted by: bbrock Feb 5 2018, 10:14 AM

Saying "hell no" to the Hell Hole

Had a very satisfying weekend working on the car. First up was some house keeping in the engine bay. I reworked the butt weld for the RD inner wheel well patch to make sure there was complete weld penetration along that seam, and fill any pinholes. I also replaced a couple hold down straps that had seen better days.

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I also smashed a piece of copper pipe flat to use as a welding backer so I could clean up the edge of the passenger side engine lid brace that looked like a shark had taken a bite out of it thanks to some clumsy use of a 7" grinder when a younger me hacked in a new trunk hinge pivot oh so many years ago.

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Then it was time to have some fun by installing the new RD engine shelf piece. It took some time to get the piece adjusted for a good fit, but not too bad. Sadly, I forgot to take a pic at this stage, so that will have to wait.

Now it was time to prep for the battery tray. You'll be shocked to learn there was metal corrosion on the wall behind the battery tray lol-2.gif So a patch had to go in. The pitting was restricted mostly to the flat area where the battery shelf attaches, but it did extend downward where the wall bends. I decided to clean up the area below the bend the best I could and just zap a couple of the worst pits with the welder. I didn't think the pitting was bad enough to justify the added work of trying to form a new patch to match those curves and risk not getting it right. You can see the outline of the new patch here.

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I welded the patch from the outside. It went well except a little blowout at the bottom where I ran into some of that oxidized metal. I ran out of 40 grit grinding discs which I like to use to knock down the welds before finishing with finer grit, so I'll save grinding of the outside for later.

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The inside got cleaned up though to make ready for the batter tray.

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Now the battery will have a solid wall to lean against, but I wasn't ready for the tray yet. I needed to patch in the area behind the trunk pivot while there was good access. You can see the patch laid in in the last pic. And here it is welded in. Again, I'll save grinding until I get more discs.

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I was finally ready to install the tray. Time to get really nit picky again. RD's installation video suggests welding the tray to the support before installing in the car. That fine, but I didn't think I'd be able to weld that inward bent weld flange after the tray was on. There it is on the left side of this pic.

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An alternative would be to weld in the support, then add the tray. But... yes, I'm picky and I wanted to hide the plug welds under the tray. I wouldn't be able to access the rearward flange from the bottom with the support in place. So I came up with a third option. First, I welded the tray on just at the rearward flange.

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See how pretty the top looks? Almost like factory.

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Next, I welded the support to the chassis, and now for the hat trick...

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I bent back the tray so I could reach in and weld the inner flange. I'll admit this worked more elegantly in my head, but it did work.

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Then it was easy enough to plug weld the rest of the tray flanges.

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Just a couple tacks to attach the tray to the newly refurbished wall.

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And with that... the Hell Hole was now a heavenly place with all the repairs complete!

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And look how pretty those welds on the battery tray are. Well worth the effort since this is the first thing anyone looking at the car will notice. av-943.gif

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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 5 2018, 10:24 AM

cheer.gif aktion035.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Looking good! You have to be feeling pretty good having wrapped up that area.
Keep on keepin' on! welder.gif

Posted by: Dion Feb 5 2018, 02:06 PM

Nice work Brent. I can appreciate the work you are doing. Since I’m tackling the same areas. Like the Bear visit. Not to hijack but saw a Grizzly in Yellowstone
this past summer... amazing.

Subscribed

Posted by: defianty Feb 5 2018, 02:12 PM

Great work Brent, like you I ticked off the hell hole area today too by installing the battery tray.

Looking forward to more updates.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 5 2018, 02:37 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 5 2018, 09:24 AM) *

cheer.gif aktion035.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Looking good! You have to be feeling pretty good having wrapped up that area.
Keep on keepin' on! welder.gif
QUOTE(Dion @ Feb 5 2018, 01:06 PM) *

Nice work Brent. I can appreciate the work you are doing. Since I’m tackling the same areas. Like the Bear visit. Not to hijack but saw a Grizzly in Yellowstone
this past summer... amazing.

Subscribed
QUOTE(defianty @ Feb 5 2018, 01:12 PM) *

Great work Brent, like you I ticked off the hell hole area today too by installing the battery tray.

Looking forward to more updates.


Thanks all. High praise from folks who's work I admire! I think I'm approaching a cross roads on the project because I might be running out things I can do before stripping and blasting the rest of the chassis. The weather won't be cooperative for rollng the car outside for a few months yet so I might have to get creative. But I think I blasted enough ealier that I can get the guts under the sail panels and quarters cleaned and primered to put them back on. Would be nice to get that done. I just hope my welding skills have improved enough to pull it off.

The next time anyone is heading to Yellowstone, give me a shout. My house is only a 1 hour drive from the north entrance. I'll hijack my own thread a bit. The black bear pic was at the end of a great day in Yellowstone. We met some relatively new aquaintenances down there to show them around. Over the course of one day we saw, pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep, mountain goats, elk, bison, mule deer, red fox (from 4 feet away), wolves, coyote, golden eagle, prairie falcon, and moose. Ended the day at Tower Falls when that sow walked through with her two cubs. That's actually not an unusual day down there. No griz that day though. The badger was another Yellowstone excursion on 4th of July several years ago. Watched that badger kicking her cub out of the den for about 45 minutes. Both fascinating and brutal to watch. The poor cub couldn't understand why Mom was being so mean. There's more to that story but maybe for another time.

Posted by: Dion Feb 5 2018, 03:51 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 5 2018, 12:37 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 5 2018, 09:24 AM) *

cheer.gif aktion035.gif smilie_pokal.gif

Looking good! You have to be feeling pretty good having wrapped up that area.
Keep on keepin' on! welder.gif
QUOTE(Dion @ Feb 5 2018, 01:06 PM) *

Nice work Brent. I can appreciate the work you are doing. Since I’m tackling the same areas. Like the Bear visit. Not to hijack but saw a Grizzly in Yellowstone
this past summer... amazing.

Subscribed
QUOTE(defianty @ Feb 5 2018, 01:12 PM) *

Great work Brent, like you I ticked off the hell hole area today too by installing the battery tray.

Looking forward to more updates.


Thanks all. High praise from folks who's work I admire! I think I'm approaching a cross roads on the project because I might be running out things I can do before stripping and blasting the rest of the chassis. The weather won't be cooperative for rollng the car outside for a few months yet so I might have to get creative. But I think I blasted enough ealier that I can get the guts under the sail panels and quarters cleaned and primered to put them back on. Would be nice to get that done. I just hope my welding skills have improved enough to pull it off.

The next time anyone is heading to Yellowstone, give me a shout. My house is only a 1 hour drive from the north entrance. I'll hijack my own thread a bit. The black bear pic was at the end of a great day in Yellowstone. We met some relatively new aquaintenances down there to show them around. Over the course of one day we saw, pronghorn antelope, bighorn sheep, mountain goats, elk, bison, mule deer, red fox (from 4 feet away), wolves, coyote, golden eagle, prairie falcon, and moose. Ended the day at Tower Falls when that sow walked through with her two cubs. That's actually not an unusual day down there. No griz that day though. The badger was another Yellowstone excursion on 4th of July several years ago. Watched that badger kicking her cub out of the den for about 45 minutes. Both fascinating and brutal to watch. The poor cub couldn't understand why Mom was being so mean. There's more to that story but maybe for another time.


Sorry, slight hijack again. My family spent 4 days there in Yellowstone,
Had dinner at the North Entrance in Gardiner,MT. Wish I would have known
You were so close, would have been nice to meet up.
Some awesome roads in Yellowstone for a 914 run.
Ok back to the build Brent. Awesome all around! welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: bbrock Feb 8 2018, 09:22 AM

More OCD

This is covered in a separate thread, but I figured I should document my latest round of OCD. I had a yellow tag that needed to be taken care of before I can replace sail panels. That tag said to braze the fresh air tube in the door jamb and lower flange of the jamb where it meets the longitudinal.

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The ONLY reason I was going to braze is because "that's what the factory did." But I don't have an acetylene torch and can't justify the expense of one. Bernzomatic has a MAPP/Oxy brazing rig for cheap, but it gets unanimously horrible reviews. No problem, I've rented torches a few times in the past. After calling both locations of the one and only tool rental shop we have in the area, renting was out. I have one neighbor I thought might have a torch, so I left a voicemail. I also http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=323894 to get feedback from the brain trust. The unanimous opinion was to MIG and seal which makes perfect since and I planned to do. In the meantime, my neighbor called to say he had a torch and would bring it over when he got back from town. Before I could call him back to tell him I changed my mind, I got a call from the fraud alert center for one of our credit cards. Some $%# hacked our account, opened an online checking account, and transferred two cash advances from our card into the account. It is being remedied, but chewed up an hour and a half of my day. By the time I was finished, my neighbor was calling from in front of my house with the torch in his truck.

Of course, since he'd gone to all that effort, I felt obligated to use it. I hadn't picked up a torch in 20 years and hadn't brazed in 30. But after a little practice on scraps, I was ready to melt some brass into those joints. Didn't take long at all.

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So there it is. Fresh air tubes are reattached "just like factory," and I do like the seal a little puddle of brass makes at the base of the jamb. It's a boring story, but documents one of those little side trips we all make on our restoration journeys.

Since this is boring, here's a pic of a sandhill crane on her nest, taken just across the road from where the eagle pic was taken.

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Posted by: mb911 Feb 8 2018, 02:52 PM

Brent,

Your driverside jamb is over the sill and pasenger side under the sill? Or is this just an illusion?

Otherwise looks great..

Posted by: bbrock Feb 8 2018, 04:19 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Feb 8 2018, 01:52 PM) *

Brent,

Your driverside jamb is over the sill and pasenger side under the sill? Or is this just an illusion?

Otherwise looks great..


It's an illusion, but convincing enough I had to go down and take a look to verify. Jambs are over the sill on both sides. beerchug.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 8 2018, 04:35 PM

AS Bob Marley smoke.gif says:

"We're Jammin'..."

Looking really nice!

Posted by: bbrock Feb 9 2018, 10:39 AM

One Small Step, One Giant Leap

Got a little work done last night with a surprisingly big impact. I liberated the old door jambs from the quarter panels. First up was cleaning out the seam sealer. A heat gun and putty knife, followed by a stiff plastic wheel on the drill did the trick.

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Spot welds are too close to the corner to get the Rotabroach in there, so I had to use a cutoff wheel on the die grinder. Didn't take too long to get them off. I think I need to do something artsy with the one with the compliance sticker.

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The insides of the quarters are both crusty, but should clean up. Both need a little patchwork done at the bottom corners under the jambs, but I'm a bit worried what I'm going to find under this passenger side quarter.

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That panel is noticeably heavier so there is definitely a lot of filler in it. You can see it oozing through the holes drilled for keys. More ominous are the lines in the rust pattern between those holes. I'm afraid I'm going to find a brazed patch in there. I'll know when I strip them down. Here's a close-up of that worry spot.

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I did a quick and very rough dry fit to see how the pieces were going to fit together. Suddenlty, things got real. This IS going to look like a car again!

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I'll need to tune up the corner under the door handle on the RD panel to make it more crisp to blend with the factory quarters. Any tips from those of you who've done this before? Advice on the dolly to use maybe?

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Posted by: bbrock Feb 11 2018, 12:12 AM

Secrets Reveal - Could Use Some Advice Here

Spent most of the day cleaning up the quarter panel sections that will go back on the car. There are different issues to be address on each side and I'd love to hear opinions.

First, the driver's side. The issue on this one is rust. I stripped off the paint on both sides, then took it to the blasting cabinet to blast the rust to see what I was dealing with. After a thorough inspaction, I treated it with Ospho. I already knew the front corner was rusted away along with some holes in the bottom edge that require patching. No new surprises there and I can deal with those. The undercoat was applied thin inside those quarters and there are scattered little pits of rust where grit and gravel broke through to the metal. This car saw a lot of gravel road miles when I was driving it. Those are nothing to worry about though.

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More disturbing is the amount of pitting along the bottom on the inside of the panel. It isn't horrible, the metal is still mostly good and solid with the exception of 3 deep pits that have cratered through and the outer skin looks great other than those pinholes. It is just a little rougher on the inside than I'd like to see, and not something that can be sanded out without thinning the metal too much. If I had a nice bending brake with box fingers, I'd probably make a patch that replicated the bottom edge channel and extended up the side enough to replace all the pitted stuff. But I don't, so I think I'm going to live with it other than zapping those three deep pits closed. I'm wondering if I should smooth it with some body solder or kevlar reinforced filler before primer. Once it is primered and undercoated, you'll neve know the difference regardless of what I do. Opinions welcome here. I've drawn a line around the pitted area. This was before Ospho so it stands out better.

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Now on to the passenger side. This was the side that was heavy with filler, and it was thick. I torched and scraped it all off, then went over it with a stripping disc, but still need to put it in the blasting cabinet to clean up the areas the disc couldn't reach. This side fared better with rust for a change. Just a tiny hole at the very tip of the lower corner and the scattered road rash on the inside like the driver's side.

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Also, my fears of a brazed patch didn't come true, but the secrets were revealed. It appears this car was in a minor fender bender where the quarter panel was creased. The rows of holes look like they were for pulling the creases out with a slide hammer.

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The crease runs off the edge to the section that is still on the car, so I'll need to strip that off to see how far back it goes. It also looks like there are a number of door dings near the jamb edge. Rather than bump anything out, they slathered the entire section (and who knows how far back) with a layer of Bondo. It was a minimum of 1/8" thick, and almost 14" in some spots. The weight that came off alone is probably worth a couple horsepower. This would have been done in the 70s and I know that's how too many shops did it back then, but it's puzzling why they laid it on so thick. There is no place on that panel where the filler had been sanded back to the metal surface. They could have accomplished the same quicky repair with a lot less Bondo. The worst part of that repair is that it looks like they went over the hole panel with a 36 grit disc, no doubt to get an aggressive tooth for the Bondo to key into. So there's that to deal with.

The big question I have is, what's the correct squence for repair here? Should I hammer and dolly the creases and dings before putting the panel back on the car, or would it be better to do it after it is welded on? My instinct is that because the damage extends to the other piece, it would be best to weld the piece back on, being careful to keep the edges flush, then break out the hammer and dolly. I can also tell the panel is stretched, so I'll need to run the magic shrinking disc over it as well. Any advice here?

I did complete one last task for the day. I removed the trunk hinge pivot from the driver's side, ground the area flat, and marked out approximate the area to cut out for a patch.

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Posted by: burton73 Feb 11 2018, 12:49 AM

Have you looked online at Tube or Eastwood Deluxe Body Solder Kit
For doing lead filler. It does not seen that bad. You can do it with out buying all of the Eastwood stuff. See some UTube. I think you can do it for a lot less and what I have seen from you I know you can do it.

Best regards,

Bob B

Posted by: bbrock Feb 11 2018, 11:00 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Feb 10 2018, 11:49 PM) *

Have you looked online at Tube or Eastwood Deluxe Body Solder Kit
For doing lead filler. It does not seen that bad. You can do it with out buying all of the Eastwood stuff. See some UTube. I think you can do it for a lot less and what I have seen from you I know you can do it.

Best regards,

Bob B

Well Bob, you might as well have made this a "Double Dog Dare." I actually have a minimalist soldering kit I bought from J.C. Whitney decades ago when I painted my wife's 914. I even used a little somewhere earlier in this thread. I think on the firewall. Your suggestion was all the arm twisting I needed to break out the lead again.

With that goal in mind, I started the morning patching up the rusted bottom of that driver's quarter.

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The patch was welded up and ground down. Then it was time to play with some lead. As with my other forays into body solder, it was a bit of a mixed bag. There's a reason this is a "lost art." It's harder than it looks. First, I think the tub of tinning paste I have is pretty low quality. The tin content seems pretty low, and no matter how clean I get the metal surface, a bunch of black crap starts floating around as soon as I heat the flux. But the lead seems to stick okay and the crap doesn't seem to affect the final result. It just makes it hard to tell whether you are doing a good job. Despite my inexperience, I did get a nice layer down over the pitted area of the back side. Then I did what I seem to always do with this stuff, not understand its limits. The back went well enough that I thought it would be nice to touch up some spots on the front with solder. That went pretty well, but when I flipped the piece back over to look at the back, I realized my mistake. I don't know why I didn't think about the fact that heating the front would melt the lead off the back. It didn't melt all the way off, it just sort of ran and pooled so the lead was thin in some spots and puddled up in others. Of course, reheating the back would ruin the front, and only one side needs to look pretty. I was happy with the front.

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So I just filed and ground the back as it was. Anyway, it isn't bad, but it isn't baby butt smooth. The black edges in the next pic are from the lead pooling and ruining the feathered edges rather than pits in the metal. It did accomplish the purpose of reinforcing that pitted section at least and the metal there feels as solid as the rest of the panel. I could probably get it smoother, but how much time should one spend making a perfect surface that will be buried under undercoat?

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Here's the before pic again for comparison.

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With the panel clamped back on the car, there was one little issue that wasn't going to fly. I don't know if you can see it, but door gap at the very bottom ended up flared a little.

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The fix was to cut a thin slit using my Dremel with thin cutoff wheel behind the flange.

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Then adjust the gap before welding the slit shut. It will need a little fine tuning, but this is much better.

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Posted by: bbrock Feb 18 2018, 01:21 PM

And Now for Something Completely Different

My evening side project for the week. Backpad was looking a little grungy.

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Amazing what a scrubbing and wipe with 303 protectant can do.

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Posted by: burton73 Feb 18 2018, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 11 2018, 09:00 PM) *

QUOTE(burton73 @ Feb 10 2018, 11:49 PM) *

Have you looked online at Tube or Eastwood Deluxe Body Solder Kit
For doing lead filler. It does not seen that bad. You can do it with out buying all of the Eastwood stuff. See some UTube. I think you can do it for a lot less and what I have seen from you I know you can do it.

Best regards,

Bob B

Well Bob, you might as well have made this a "Double Dog Dare." I actually have a minimalist soldering kit I bought from J.C. Whitney decades ago when I painted my wife's 914. I even used a little somewhere earlier in this thread. I think on the firewall. Your suggestion was all the arm twisting I needed to break out the lead again.

With that goal in mind, I started the morning patching up the rusted bottom of that driver's quarter.

Attached Image

The patch was welded up and ground down. Then it was time to play with some lead. As with my other forays into body solder, it was a bit of a mixed bag. There's a reason this is a "lost art." It's harder than it looks. First, I think the tub of tinning paste I have is pretty low quality. The tin content seems pretty low, and no matter how clean I get the metal surface, a bunch of black crap starts floating around as soon as I heat the flux. But the lead seems to stick okay and the crap doesn't seem to affect the final result. It just makes it hard to tell whether you are doing a good job. Despite my inexperience, I did get a nice layer down over the pitted area of the back side. Then I did what I seem to always do with this stuff, not understand its limits. The back went well enough that I thought it would be nice to touch up some spots on the front with solder. That went pretty well, but when I flipped the piece back over to look at the back, I realized my mistake. I don't know why I didn't think about the fact that heating the front would melt the lead off the back. It didn't melt all the way off, it just sort of ran and pooled so the lead was thin in some spots and puddled up in others. Of course, reheating the back would ruin the front, and only one side needs to look pretty. I was happy with the front.

Attached Image

So I just filed and ground the back as it was. Anyway, it isn't bad, but it isn't baby butt smooth. The black edges in the next pic are from the lead pooling and ruining the feathered edges rather than pits in the metal. It did accomplish the purpose of reinforcing that pitted section at least and the metal there feels as solid as the rest of the panel. I could probably get it smoother, but how much time should one spend making a perfect surface that will be buried under undercoat?

Attached Image

Here's the before pic again for comparison.

IPB Image

With the panel clamped back on the car, there was one little issue that wasn't going to fly. I don't know if you can see it, but door gap at the very bottom ended up flared a little.

Attached Image

The fix was to cut a thin slit using my Dremel with thin cutoff wheel behind the flange.

Attached Image

Then adjust the gap before welding the slit shut. It will need a little fine tuning, but this is much better.

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Brent,

Massaging the metal. Right on. This is what is done. Waite till you get into the paint.
Lots of tricks on body prep but you can end up with a car with super straight lines that will look new. Like a custom fit suit from a tailor. Keep fitting it till it is just right.

It is funny that some people think that what we may do as magic while some of what they do in different areas is magic to us.

Yes you have a great skillset.

Regards,

Bob B

Posted by: Dion Feb 18 2018, 02:29 PM

Nice work Brent, when did ya say your coming to Pennsylvania? Hehehe
Your work, Tygaboy, Defiantly, & Bens build. I’ll tell ya wealth of knowledge.
Always learning from you guys.
Top notch.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 18 2018, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Feb 18 2018, 11:43 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 11 2018, 09:00 PM) *

QUOTE(burton73 @ Feb 10 2018, 11:49 PM) *

Have you looked online at Tube or Eastwood Deluxe Body Solder Kit
For doing lead filler. It does not seen that bad. You can do it with out buying all of the Eastwood stuff. See some UTube. I think you can do it for a lot less and what I have seen from you I know you can do it.

Best regards,

Bob B

Well Bob, you might as well have made this a "Double Dog Dare." I actually have a minimalist soldering kit I bought from J.C. Whitney decades ago when I painted my wife's 914. I even used a little somewhere earlier in this thread. I think on the firewall. Your suggestion was all the arm twisting I needed to break out the lead again.

With that goal in mind, I started the morning patching up the rusted bottom of that driver's quarter.

Attached Image

The patch was welded up and ground down. Then it was time to play with some lead. As with my other forays into body solder, it was a bit of a mixed bag. There's a reason this is a "lost art." It's harder than it looks. First, I think the tub of tinning paste I have is pretty low quality. The tin content seems pretty low, and no matter how clean I get the metal surface, a bunch of black crap starts floating around as soon as I heat the flux. But the lead seems to stick okay and the crap doesn't seem to affect the final result. It just makes it hard to tell whether you are doing a good job. Despite my inexperience, I did get a nice layer down over the pitted area of the back side. Then I did what I seem to always do with this stuff, not understand its limits. The back went well enough that I thought it would be nice to touch up some spots on the front with solder. That went pretty well, but when I flipped the piece back over to look at the back, I realized my mistake. I don't know why I didn't think about the fact that heating the front would melt the lead off the back. It didn't melt all the way off, it just sort of ran and pooled so the lead was thin in some spots and puddled up in others. Of course, reheating the back would ruin the front, and only one side needs to look pretty. I was happy with the front.

Attached Image

So I just filed and ground the back as it was. Anyway, it isn't bad, but it isn't baby butt smooth. The black edges in the next pic are from the lead pooling and ruining the feathered edges rather than pits in the metal. It did accomplish the purpose of reinforcing that pitted section at least and the metal there feels as solid as the rest of the panel. I could probably get it smoother, but how much time should one spend making a perfect surface that will be buried under undercoat?

Attached Image

Here's the before pic again for comparison.

IPB Image

With the panel clamped back on the car, there was one little issue that wasn't going to fly. I don't know if you can see it, but door gap at the very bottom ended up flared a little.

Attached Image

The fix was to cut a thin slit using my Dremel with thin cutoff wheel behind the flange.

Attached Image

Then adjust the gap before welding the slit shut. It will need a little fine tuning, but this is much better.

Attached Image

Brent,

Massaging the metal. Right on. This is what is done. Waite till you get into the paint.
Lots of tricks on body prep but you can end up with a car with super straight lines that will look new. Like a custom fit suit from a tailor. Keep fitting it till it is just right.

It is funny that some people think that what we may do as magic while some of what they do in different areas is magic to us.

Yes you have a great skillset.

Regards,

Bob B



agree.gif

Looks great.. As always I would be happy to talk you through some of the little things but you pretty much have a handle on it.. I will be onto those things soon enough as well. I was gone all week for work so this weekend was off limits for garage work..

Keep up the good work..

Posted by: doug_b_928 Feb 18 2018, 05:14 PM

Great work Brent! I think we are living largely parallel 914 lives! Right down to working on our harness right now and my multiple trips to emergency last summer (twice to have impaled metal removed from my eyeballs, once to have crushed glass medial removed from my eye, once once for 3 stitches due to getting my angle grinder too close to my knuckle). One difference is I put my car away for the winter and frankly needed the break! Just the deja vu from reading through your thread has me feeling exhausted again! But after reading through your thread, I don't feel so anal anymore biggrin.gif

Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 18 2018, 05:34 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 18 2018, 11:21 AM) *

Amazing what a scrubbing and wipe with 303 protectant can do.


That's not going to replace the missing material!! Did you repair the cardboard backing and the vinyl, or did you just replace the whole thing?

--DD

Posted by: bbrock Feb 18 2018, 06:28 PM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Feb 18 2018, 04:34 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 18 2018, 11:21 AM) *

Amazing what a scrubbing and wipe with 303 protectant can do.


That's not going to replace the missing material!! Did you repair the cardboard backing and the vinyl, or did you just replace the whole thing?

--DD

smilie_pokal.gif lol-2.gif I was wondering who would be the one to call bull stromberg.gif on that. I picked up one of 914rubbers new plastic backpad cards and their vinyl kit on their Black Friday sale and finally got around to the project. I ran into a detail that isn't covered in Nick Mironov's excellent upholstery tutorial and a couple others that are peculiar to the plastic backpad card. I'll post a few details this evening. I just wanted to see who was paying attention. biggrin.gif

Posted by: bbrock Feb 18 2018, 11:06 PM

QUOTE(doug_b_928 @ Feb 18 2018, 04:14 PM) *

Great work Brent! I think we are living largely parallel 914 lives! Right down to working on our harness right now and my multiple trips to emergency last summer (twice to have impaled metal removed from my eyeballs, once to have crushed glass medial removed from my eye, once once for 3 stitches due to getting my angle grinder too close to my knuckle). One difference is I put my car away for the winter and frankly needed the break! Just the deja vu from reading through your thread has me feeling exhausted again! But after reading through your thread, I don't feel so anal anymore biggrin.gif


Goodness! Did they give you one of those punch cards so your 10th visit is free?

As always, thank everyone for the encouragement but I have to confess that any skills I have managed to acquire are just from copying what I read on these forums and obsessively watching youtube videos. As a lifelong woodworker, this has been an interesting journey. With wood, it is all about the precision of the cuts. If you mess up, the joint is ruined and you throw away the piece and start again. Metal is an interesting media in that it is more like clay and can be pushed and reworked to a degree. Pretty fun stuff!

Posted by: bbrock Feb 18 2018, 11:46 PM

The Real Story

Dave caught my BS and as promised, here's the real story. My backpad was trashed beyond hope. It was already in serious trouble when I got the car back when the 924 turbo was the hot new Porsche on the magazine covers. By the time I revived this project, they were only half there.

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Mark offered some pretty smokin' hot deals on the new 914rubber plastic backpad cards and vinyl kits in the big Black Friday sale, so I snatched them up. I mostly followed http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=71844 in the classic threads. But I discovered a detail not covered in his tutorial and plastic cards required a few other steps. I won't repeat anything covered in the tutorial, so just reference it if anything seems confusing here.

First was stripping down the old pieces and prepping the new cards. I only stripped one side at a time to leave the other intact for reference. Once a card was stripped, I used what was left of the old card as a template for drilling the new one. The originals have a series of 2-inch holes cut under the foam. My first inclination was to ignore those, but then I realized those might have been added to allow air to move out and in when the foam is compressed and relaxed. You can imagine that if the foam bolsters were compressed rapidly without those holes, they would act like a balloon and could blow out staples or stitching. So I replicated them in the new cards.

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I also chose to transfer the metal speed nuts over to the new center piece. I don't think this is necessary because the plastic has plenty of bite to hold the screws, but I wasn't sure how that would hold over time, so decided to transfer. The speed nuts just press into the plastic with little spikes. I used vice grips to press them in. But they are easy to pop out of the plastic, so I glued the in with some E600 adhesive to convince them to stay put. One tip I learned through trial and error is to drill the holes where the side pieces screw to the center oversized so the screws can spin. If you use the speed nuts, do this for both sides and center pieces. Otherwise, the screws will bite into the plastic and it will be a bitch to get them to pull tight. If you don't use the speed nuts, only drill the side pieces oversize.

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Next I followed the tutorial on upholstering the first side. But there is a little metal wire piece sewn into the side bolsters where the seam crosses them, that are pulled tight with a cord truss sort of affair. I don't know if it is necessary to do this, but I think we have established that I'm a wee bit on the anal side, and I do think it improved the final result. The pocket that holds the wire was rotted on one side of mine, but here's what it should look like.

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And here is the cord system.

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It looks complicated at first, but it isn't. There are four holes drilled into the card along where the seam will lie and two cords feed up through pairs of holes to form two loops around the wire hold down like this.

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When installed, those cords feed up through a slit in the foam before catching the wire.

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Posted by: bbrock Feb 19 2018, 12:26 AM

Backpad continued...

As a side note, note the big glob of silicone to fill a gouge in the foam. This didn't work very well and was a noticeably different texture when the vinyl was stretched over. So I pulled out the silicone and replaced it with a foam patch. The reapire is undetectable in the finished pad.

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The vinyl kit doesn't come with a pocket for the wire hold down, so I just sewed it to the seam flap with 3/16" upholstery cord.

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I learned the hard way that when stapling the beading strip to the vinyl and card, it is important to line up the bolster seam with the holes for the cording on the card first, then stretch the vinyl up and down from that point as you staple the rest of the beading. Then when you glue the foam to the card, line up the slit in the foam with the holes and seam, and make sure you scrunch the foam together tight over that slit. Otherwise, you'll wind up with a gap in the foam that will leave a dead air space. The pull the vinyl over the seam and hook the two loops of cord coming up through the card and foam over each end of the wire hold down. Stretch the vinyl over the seam to the other side and pull at the seam over the back of the card and staple it in place with several staples. Use your still assembled side as a gude for how much to stretch. Next, pull the cords on the back side of the card to bull the wire hold down evenly down to the card. While keeping tension on the cords, tie an overhand knot as close to the holes as you can to tie the cords together. Then pull the cords down on the card and put several staples in place. Then pull the remaining ends of the cords up to the other side of the holes in the card, and staple again. Trim off the access cord. That replicates the factory tie down.

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There are a few other things needed to use the plastic cards. First, you need to transfer the upper clips to attach the backpad tot he firewall, and the clips for the light to the new cards. The holes in the clips are just a smidge smaller than 3/16" so I had to drill them out to accept 3/16" pop rivets. The original rivets were countersunk into the card flush. On the first card I did, the pop rivets were proud to the card surface and show as small bumps after the vinyl was on. It doesn't look bad and will be hidden behind the seat, but on the second card, I heated a rivet with a propane torch and pressed it down into the plastic to countersink. I didn't get it all the way as I didn't want to get the plastic too thin, but the rivets are a little less noticeable on that side. I'm trying to resist the urge to rip open the first side and redo that part.

A big issue I had on the first one was that I learned the card needs to have a slot cut to allow the bottom of the side bolster to pull straight through and up like the factory did. That portion had rotted away on my originals, so I didn't discover this until I already had the vinyl mostly install and it was a challenge to hack a slot in without screwing up my work. The second one was easy to do with a sabre saw.

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Also, the recess on the lower left of the driver's side panel wasn't deep enough to clear the metal tab that the e-brake cable cover plate attaches to. Again, sabre saw made short work of that. And finally, after gluing down the vinyl across the back of the first side I did, the final kept trying to pop up where it bends up to meet the center panel. I kept pressing it back down every couple hours and eventually it stayed in place. But for the second panel, I ran a random orbit sander over the plastic with a 60 grit disc to give the plastic a little more bite. I still had a little lifting, but I only had to press it back down a couple times before it stuck for good.

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The last thing to do is screw the panels together. My only advice here is to lay every curse word you know out on the table before you start, because you will need every single one of them, and in as many combinations as you can muster. One of the hardest f'ing things I've done on this car. It's a bitch to find those holes through the vinyl you just stretch on, and a bitch to get the holes lined up even if you do. I wound up removing staples to pull vinyl back to expose holes, then poke holes in the vinyl over the holes and re-stapling. Then cursing my way into hell when none of that worked. I'm getting pissed off again just thinking about it, so good luck. But eventually, I prevailed.

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Posted by: mbseto Feb 19 2018, 01:23 PM

This is inspiring work. Keep it up!

Posted by: bbrock Feb 22 2018, 05:51 PM

A couple items here to catch up. Over the weekend I worked on prepping the roll bar and sail panels for the big event. I wound up following Perry's method for treating cavities from http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=323641&mode=linear. I modified a cheap pump sprayer as a cavity sprayer. Just a matter of attaching the wand to the smallest tubing I could find at the local hardware, putting a few pinholes around the end, and plugging the end with an SS screw. It's not the greatest spray pattern, but good enough for wetting everything down.

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First was the Ospho (actually Klean-Strip brand which is the same stuff for $5 less per gallon at the local HD). I ran several passes through the roll bar and up into the inner cavity of the sail panels, rocking the car to distribute well. I let that soak for most of a day and then repeated the process 3X with water to make sure all of the acid was neutralized. Then I went around all of the seams and surfaces with a heat gun set on high. I made sure every surface got too hot to touch, and kept it hot until no hint of steam was coming out of anywhere. When I was finished, I went over everything again. I left the car overnight to make absolutely sure everything was dry. The next day, I sprayed two coats of the green Eastwood Internal Frame Cavity treatment in all of the cavities. I had forgotten how potent the solvent in this stuff is. After it dried about an hour, I ran compressed air through all of the cavities to flush out any flammable gases. Then I left it alone for another day. I tried to get pics with an endoscope, but they didn't come out well. Here they are anyway. One of the roll bar, and two of a sail panel.

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Then I welded in the patch under the trunk pivot on the driver's side but only got a little way through the grinding.

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I need to finish a fair amount of grinding, strip some more of the inner fender to bare metal, and then I'll be ready to primer before welding on the sails and quarters.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 22 2018, 06:11 PM

Sidetracked

Didn't get much done the last couple days. On Monday, we burned our last stick of firewood. So, of course, Tuesday night, the ignitor on our boiler crapped out. Temps were -7F outside which was a lot better than the -22F we registered the night before. Luckily, our house is very well insulated so by morning, we had only dropped 6 degrees and were still at an acceptable 60F. But our boiler also makes our hot water, so that sucked. The ignitor is a simple part to replace, but not available locally thanks to the worthless contractor who stopped supporting all the boilers they put in around here. I got on the phone to an online store I've used for parts before, and learned that he literally was selling the last of that part while I was leaving my voicemail message. He was nice and asked where I was. When he said he knew about Bozeman, MT because of its importance in Star Trek, I knew I was one namedrop away from getting the VIP treatment. Zefram Cochrane. If you are a Trekkie, you get it. This guy was a huge Trekkie and that did it. The gears of the machine started turning. He started making calls and within a half hour, had located what I needed in Milwaukie and had it drop shipped overnight to me. In the mean time, I had to keep the house warm which meant dropping everything yesterday to quickly cut some firewood. Done and done. I got home with the part a couple hours ago and just took my first hot shower in two days. Whew that feels good! dance.gif Yes, this is a meander from the project, but it's life, and the two are interwoven.

I did manage to get one thing done though. A few weeks ago while rummaging through parts, I discovered that the rear signal lens I thought had escaped damage from the great shelf collapse, had not. In fact, it was way worse than the other. I didn't take a pic before starting repairs, but one of the mounting studs had been knocked sideways and created a series of cracks. I needed some of the watery Weld-on 4 solvent to repair it. That's the stuff that is thin so it flows by capillary action into the cracks and forms the bond. I learned from a local glass shop that the reason you can't find that stuff readily is because of post 9/11 shipping rules. It's too expensive to ship. But the guy gave me a slightly used tube of Weld-On 16 at no charge. This stuff is the consistency of syrup. The label shows acetone and MEK as the thinning solvents, so I thinned the syrup down with acetone to the right viscosity and tested it on an old, badly damaged, lens. It worked. I taped the lens I wanted to repair to hold the cracks tightly together, and flowed the solvent adhesive into all the cracks. It isn't ideal and you can see the cracks if you look for them, but you do have to look for them. In fact, I had to hold the lens at several angles against the light before I could get them to show in a picture. That will have to do.

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Posted by: bbrock Feb 23 2018, 11:56 PM

No Pretty Colors
Well, I just had to do it. My left eye has been feeling just slightly irritated at the end of the day this week. Last night I looked hard in the mirror since it wasn't improving. Sure enough, another fleck of crap embedded in the cornea. WTF.gif This time, they had to break out the drill to get it out but I felt robbed because there were no psychedelic colors. Doctor said it had started to rust in there. I even took my fairly new, and very expensive prescription safety glasses in to get an opinion. The doctor said they looked like good glasses. Just bad luck I guess. I might need a frequent purchaser punch card myself. Not sure how much work I'll be able to accomplish this weekend. sad.gif

Posted by: doug_b_928 Feb 24 2018, 06:09 AM

Sorry to hear that Brent. It’s disconcerting when the physician comes at your eye with a needle. I also took appropriate precautions each time. With so much metal flying and bouncing off of everything somehow it seems one little spec will defy the laws of physics and find its way in there sad.gif. Last time I had it done they said they see one person per week for it due to grinding.

Posted by: tygaboy Feb 24 2018, 07:56 AM

Sorry to hear there was another Dr. visit but good that it's fixed. Heal quickly!

Posted by: 76-914 Feb 24 2018, 09:44 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 23 2018, 09:56 PM) *

No Pretty Colors
Well, I just had to do it. My left eye has been feeling just slightly irritated at the end of the day this week. Last night I looked hard in the mirror since it wasn't improving. Sure enough, another fleck of crap embedded in the cornea. WTF.gif This time, they had to break out the drill to get it out but I felt robbed because there were no psychedelic colors. Doctor said it had started to rust in there. I even took my fairly new, and very expensive prescription safety glasses in to get an opinion. The doctor said they looked like good glasses. Just bad luck I guess. I might need a frequent purchaser punch card myself. Not sure how much work I'll be able to accomplish this weekend. sad.gif

Well crap. Use my doc next time. av-943.gif Did he do the procedure in a dark room? I've had that done 3 times with the same results but the last time was 15 yr's ago. Maybe a new procedure. confused24.gif

Posted by: bbrock Feb 24 2018, 10:04 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Feb 24 2018, 08:44 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Feb 23 2018, 09:56 PM) *

No Pretty Colors
Well, I just had to do it. My left eye has been feeling just slightly irritated at the end of the day this week. Last night I looked hard in the mirror since it wasn't improving. Sure enough, another fleck of crap embedded in the cornea. WTF.gif This time, they had to break out the drill to get it out but I felt robbed because there were no psychedelic colors. Doctor said it had started to rust in there. I even took my fairly new, and very expensive prescription safety glasses in to get an opinion. The doctor said they looked like good glasses. Just bad luck I guess. I might need a frequent purchaser punch card myself. Not sure how much work I'll be able to accomplish this weekend. sad.gif

Well crap. Use my doc next time. av-943.gif Did he do the procedure in a dark room? I've had that done 3 times with the same results but the last time was 15 yr's ago. Maybe a new procedure. confused24.gif


I think the difference is the location of the crud. This one was way over on the left edge of the cornea, so when he pressed with the drill, I don't think it excited the optic nerve as much as a more central location would. I did see some very subtle hints of colors. But boring. He also gave me two Vicodin pills for pain which I didn't, and won't use. This hasn't been nearly as painful as the doc predicted. Just the feeling of a scratched eyeball. Need to do some massive cleanup today and might need to work on the day job, but think I'll be back to welder.gif smash.gif before the weekend is over.

Thanks all for the good wishes.

Posted by: Dion Feb 24 2018, 10:32 AM

Sorry to hear of your recent setbacks with the heat and your eye.
Heal quickly mate. Take it easy this weekend. Heheheh
Project is looking good.

Posted by: mb911 Feb 25 2018, 08:52 AM

Be careful welding with a bum eye.. It can make it a touch worse.


Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 25 2018, 10:01 AM

Man- with that record of eye injuries, I would get a set of the safety glasses that seal to your face. We only have 2 eyes....need to protect them. Heal quickly and best wishes.

Posted by: worn Feb 25 2018, 10:13 AM

QUOTE(doug_b_928 @ Feb 24 2018, 04:09 AM) *

Sorry to hear that Brent. It’s disconcerting when the physician comes at your eye with a needle. I also took appropriate precautions each time. With so much metal flying and bouncing off of everything somehow it seems one little spec will defy the laws of physics and find its way in there sad.gif. Last time I had it done they said they see one person per week for it due to grinding.


That is very scary. I count my blessings that I still have all my fingers. My hearing is going but that is my grandfather's doing with the jeans and all. Wait, genes.

be careful out there. No, really. You are macho enough owning a 914.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 25 2018, 11:09 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Feb 25 2018, 09:01 AM) *

Man- with that record of eye injuries, I would get a set of the safety glasses that seal to your face. We only have 2 eyes....need to protect them. Heal quickly and best wishes.


This is what's a little perplexing. I've worked with power tools that can threaten eyes all my life using el cheapo safety glasses and not one incident. Last summer I decided to splurge and buy a really nice pair of prescriptio saftey glasses from my optomitrist. These are the glasses they recommended for idustrial use. The have certified lenses, side shields, and a foam seal across the top. I even showed them to the opthamologist who dug this last piece out of my eye and he thought they looked good. Of course, the first piece of crud in my eye had nothing to do with the glasses, having fallen into my eye from my eyebrow well after the grinding was done. But still, this is really ticking me off. I'm thinking about getting https://www.amazon.com/Bionic-Shield-Clear-Polycarbonate-S8500/dp/B001VXXUWK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1519577301&sr=8-4&keywords=face+shield. I use a comentional full shield when I can, but don't like them because sparks tend to fly up under the chin to bounce off the inside of the sheild towards the eye.

I just worked on cleanup yesterday and will most of today, and my eye is back to 90%. More cleaning today. I may do just a little grinding today if I get the clean up that far, but no welding. Thanks everyone for you concern.

Posted by: euro911 Feb 25 2018, 12:10 PM

Maybe one of these is the answer?

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poke.gif

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Posted by: tygaboy Feb 25 2018, 02:19 PM

Brent - I have that same Amazon face shield. It's great so long as you go with ear plugs for hearing protection - it doesn't fit with my "over the top" ear muff style.

Posted by: bbrock Feb 25 2018, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Feb 25 2018, 11:10 AM) *

Maybe one of these is the answer?

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poke.gif

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Yeah! aktion035.gif That would be cool!!!

Posted by: bbrock Feb 25 2018, 04:09 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Feb 25 2018, 01:19 PM) *

Brent - I have that same Amazon face shield. It's great so long as you go with ear plugs for hearing protection - it doesn't fit with my "over the top" ear muff style.


Chris - that is good to know and a real bummer. Ear plugs are okay, but I have problems with them working loose over time and they do it slowly enough that I don't notice until I've already been eposed to too much noise. I've had better luck with the plugs attached to a plastic head band but still prefere muffs. Seems there is a choice of going deaf or going blind. Certainly something to think about. Did you spring for the anti fog coating on yours? Even the basic face shields that are open at the bottom are bad about fogging in our always cool weather.

And I didn't even mention the hunk of fles I had chopped off my face last week by the dermatologist. I nice bonus from being a field biologist who spent decades under the Kansas sun.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 7 2018, 07:46 PM

Not too much to report. I've been catching up on non-Porsche chores, but I have been picking away at the wiring harness (nothing picture worthy) and finished up the back pad. Garold sent me a clip and a couple mounting screw ferrules to replace missing pieces, and so far has ignored all my PMs about paying. So, I got those installed. I had to peel off and reglue the driver's side because it kept lifting off the plastic card over the concavity near the center cushion. It turns out that it is important to stretch the vinyl pretty well along the flat part from the outer cushion to center so the material can lay relaxed into the concavity. If you try to stretch it into the concavity as I did, the adhesive isn't strong enough to keep it from lifting off. Even the 3M heavy duty stuff didn't work. In fact, it was worse than the multipurpose (I think 77?). After I got it finished, I popped it in the car to see how it fits. Looks pretty good except I'm really fighting the urge to rip it open to countersink those clip rivets on the passenger side.

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That's boring. Maybe you can find the critter in this photo

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Posted by: 76-914 Mar 7 2018, 08:36 PM

That back pad looks much better! thumb3d.gif I've never been a fan of the 3M upholstery products. Too lightweight, IMHO. An auto upholstery supply is the best bet but I doubt there is one on that mountain top. My favorite was made by Eagle but I haven't seen a can of that since I moved to CA. If your not in big a rush you might start a post asking if anyone is traveling from AZ or CA to Montana that could bring you some doors for a little gas money. Happens all the time here. beerchug.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 7 2018, 08:37 PM

That back pad looks much better! thumb3d.gif I've never been a fan of the 3M upholstery products. Too lightweight, IMHO. An auto upholstery supply is the best bet but I doubt there is one on that mountain top. My favorite was made by Eagle but I haven't seen a can of that since I moved to CA. If your not in big a rush you might start a post asking if anyone is traveling from AZ or CA to Montana that could bring you some doors for a little gas money. Happens all the time here. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 8 2018, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 7 2018, 07:37 PM) *

That back pad looks much better! thumb3d.gif I've never been a fan of the 3M upholstery products. Too lightweight, IMHO. An auto upholstery supply is the best bet but I doubt there is one on that mountain top. My favorite was made by Eagle but I haven't seen a can of that since I moved to CA. If your not in big a rush you might start a post asking if anyone is traveling from AZ or CA to Montana that could bring you some doors for a little gas money. Happens all the time here. beerchug.gif


Thanks. I think there are a couple auto upholstrey shops I'll look into before doing other upholstery. If not, we do have the Internet up here on the mountain top. The main issue with the 3M is that it doesn't adhere great to the plastic card. That plastic is excellent for holding staples, but even when sanded and cleaned with acetone, it is the weak link in the bond. On my first attempt, I stretched the vinyl evenly across the card to align the outer edges of vinyl and card. After sticking down the edges, I pressed the vinyl into the concavities. That formed a lot of peel force at the concavities when the fabric cooled and contracted, which lifted the adhesive off the plastic back. Like I said, I tried upping the game with 3M 90 but that was even worse. But sheer strength with both 3M products was very good. Once I figured that out, I was able to stretch the vinyl across the flat where it would hold the sheer forces, that left enough material to press into the concavities without them trying to peel loose. If I'd have known that in advance, the 3M adhesive would have worked fine.

Despite my best efforts, I wound up with a booger under the vinyl from the peeling and re-sticking. I was able to warm it up and flatten it out quite a bit, but might have to carefull drill in from the back side to pull it out.

Good idea on the doors. I do live in a vacation destination. beerchug.gif

Posted by: andrewb Mar 8 2018, 10:38 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 8 2018, 03:46 AM) *


That's boring. Maybe you can find the critter in this photo

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(Apols to Tygaboy biggrin.gif ) Mmmmm, nice b..b...b...b....bison.

But you know what critter I really want to see..... ? biggrin.gif

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 8 2018, 11:16 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 8 2018, 06:40 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 7 2018, 07:37 PM) *

That back pad looks much better! thumb3d.gif I've never been a fan of the 3M upholstery products. Too lightweight, IMHO. An auto upholstery supply is the best bet but I doubt there is one on that mountain top. My favorite was made by Eagle but I haven't seen a can of that since I moved to CA. If your not in big a rush you might start a post asking if anyone is traveling from AZ or CA to Montana that could bring you some doors for a little gas money. Happens all the time here. beerchug.gif


Thanks. I think there are a couple auto upholstrey shops I'll look into before doing other upholstery. If not, we do have the Internet up here on the mountain top. The main issue with the 3M is that it doesn't adhere great to the plastic card. That plastic is excellent for holding staples, but even when sanded and cleaned with acetone, it is the weak link in the bond. On my first attempt, I stretched the vinyl evenly across the card to align the outer edges of vinyl and card. After sticking down the edges, I pressed the vinyl into the concavities. That formed a lot of peel force at the concavities when the fabric cooled and contracted, which lifted the adhesive off the plastic back. Like I said, I tried upping the game with 3M 90 but that was even worse. But sheer strength with both 3M products was very good. Once I figured that out, I was able to stretch the vinyl across the flat where it would hold the sheer forces, that left enough material to press into the concavities without them trying to peel loose. If I'd have known that in advance, the 3M adhesive would have worked fine.

Despite my best efforts, I wound up with a booger under the vinyl from the peeling and re-sticking. I was able to warm it up and flatten it out quite a bit, but might have to carefull drill in from the back side to pull it out.

Good idea on the doors. I do live in a vacation destination. beerchug.gif

Doesn't want to stick to the ABS! That piqued my interest. I have that same kit. I'll be sure to check the adhesion of whichever I use. Presently I'm trying POLYMAT Hi Temp 797 and it works pretty well. When push comes to shove, I always have the Weldwood Contact Cement to fall back on. That stuff will glue the soles of your shoes back on. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 8 2018, 11:53 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 8 2018, 10:16 AM) *

When push comes to shove, I always have the Weldwood Contact Cement to fall back on. That stuff will glue the soles of your shoes back on. beerchug.gif


That was going to be my next option but I knew once it went down, it was not coming back up. It's weird too, there is no issue with the adhesive sticking to the ABS EXCEPT where tensions try to lift the fabric perpendicular to the plane of the surface. Everywhere else, it holds really tight even on unsanded ABS.

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 8 2018, 12:06 PM

That sounds like weak glue. What are your shop temps. Most glues like to see temps > 60F. Question: do those dimples on the back side play a role in assemble or just molding marks?

Posted by: bbrock Mar 8 2018, 01:05 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Mar 8 2018, 11:06 AM) *

That sounds like weak glue. What are your shop temps. Most glues like to see temps > 60F. Question: do those dimples on the back side play a role in assemble or just molding marks?


I did it in the house. Temps were 68F (shop temps run 64-66). I wish I had taken more pics of the process. I wouldn't say it was weak. It still takes a lot of effort to peel the vinyl off the plastic even with the general purpose 3M. But the way I stretched the vinyl the first time left more tension than the adhesive could hold. It was a little like stretching a skin on a drum and then trying to stick it to the bottom. It just pops back up. More than anything, I think it was my ignorance rather than problems with the glue or plastic. But I'll bet if it was fiber board like the original material, my first technique would have worked.

Good question on the dimples. I pondered them because they look like they could be drill guides for the clips and screw holes. They were close, but didn't exactly line up with my original card, so I ignored them.

Posted by: cary Mar 9 2018, 09:49 AM

Brent I did the same repair on Doug's door.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=249327&view=findpost&p=2444021

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I cut the roller coaster channel off of a spare parts door.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=249327&view=findpost&p=2495185

I just couldn't create sometime that I was happy with. Too many twists and turns.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 9 2018, 10:57 AM

QUOTE(cary @ Mar 9 2018, 08:49 AM) *

I cut the roller coaster channel off of a spare parts door.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=249327&view=findpost&p=2495185

I just couldn't create sometime that I was happy with. Too many twists and turns.


Thanks Cary, I've read every word of Doug's thread but had forgotten about this. I hadn't looked close enough to think about that front lower corner being a 3-dimensional bend (roller coaster is the perfect term). I wonder if I could get somebody to chop the channels off a donor. That would sure save on shipping and make it economical. Funny how that little strip of angled metal complicates what would otherwise be fairly simple patches.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 11 2018, 11:17 PM

Finally got a day to work on the car. I have to admit, the crowded shop situation is wearing on me. But I spent the day working on my Porsche which means I have no reason to whine.

Just did some niggly stuff today, getting closer to putting the sail panels on. There was still some rot on the middle wall of the passenger B-pillar that needed to be addressed.

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Patched up the holes and repaired the flange. This was taken before grinding was complete.

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Then I rebuilt the little shelf dealy and spent a lot of time grinding and dressing all of the patch welds on the inner wheel house.

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I'll treat this with Ospho again and then give it a couple coats of epoxy primer. I'm also going to lay down some seam sealer over that shelf and contour it so it sheds any moisture that drips down in there. Then I'll be ready to put the sail panels on.

QUOTE(andrewb @ Mar 8 2018, 09:38 AM) *

(Apols to Tygaboy biggrin.gif ) Mmmmm, nice b..b...b...b....bison.

But you know what critter I really want to see..... ? biggrin.gif


Okay Andrew, I'll take a guess. Would it look something like this?

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I am not positive that is what I think it is. It was walking down the road in front of our house one morning. Showed the pic to a room full of fellow wildlife biologists, including a couple who were on the Interagency Wolf Study Team that did the science before wolves were reintroduced to Yellowstone. All of them think it probably is, but can't be certain.... but this one definately is - not exactly National Geographic quality, but it's the first wolf I ever saw in the wild.

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If that's not the critter you wanted, I have another guess.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 16 2018, 11:17 PM

Good Progress

Been a busy week. Didn't receive data from a client when I had hoped, which left me with an unplanned fun day to work on the car. The extra day set me up for steady progress all week. First was trimming the sail panels for final fit. Once they were fit and clamped in place, I noticed they had some slight bulges from the stamping. I decided to shrink as much of those out before spraying primer. Doing it later would risk burning off primer inside the cavity where it couldn't be touched up. This is after 3-4 passes with the shrinking disc. You can see the high spots. At this stage, they've already shrunk out quite a bit.

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After about 45 minutes of working the shrinking disc countless times, the main high spot has shrunk down flat. There are still a few ripples in the front corner that will need some work and maybe a bit of filler, but much less than without the shrinker. In hind sight, I probably should have used hammer and dolly to flatten those ripples, but I was afraid of stretching the metal and introducing new warps into the panels that would affect the fit.

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Now I was ready to shoot some primer. Put a couple medium coats of PPG DP
LF epoxy on all cavity surfaces and down quite a ways under the quarter panel.

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Having a full day to get the paint on set me up to make steady progress over lunch and evenings during the week. I started by doing the plug welds on both sail panels. That went smoothly.

Now for the welds I've been practicing for

With the plug welds done, I loaded a spool of EZ Grind wire for the butt welds. I don't know if it will make any difference. Some people say there is no benefit, others say it hammers out better than normal wire. I figured I could use every bit of help to achieve those invisible welds on these panels. Here's the passenger side clamped and tacked.

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About 3 hours later, I had the butt welds complete and rough ground with 36 grit just to take the weld down just proud of the parent material. I'll come back and grind a little more, work it with heat, hammer and dolly, and more grinding and blending later.

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On the driver's side, I had to use a little different approach. The lower edge of the sail panel had a bit of a wave in it. To avoid winding up with an oil can welded in, I trimmed, fit, and clamped the lower section of the quarter panel at the same time. I removed a couple clamps before remembering to snap a picture, but here it is tacked in with most of the clamps still in place.

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Then the long, slow process of zapping the butt welds shut. Another 3 hours for this. I came very close to getting 'er done before shutting down to go for a walk with the wife and dog and then movie night.

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I did not expect to start the weekend this far along. Should easily get the lower quarter on the passenger side welded in the morning and then work on grinding, hammering, and blending. Really hoping to get those invisible welds on this!

Posted by: andrewb Mar 17 2018, 02:15 AM

Sorry Brent - I'm being too obscure. I just wanted to repeat one of my favourite lines from Leslie Nielsen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS3LWOTCW4A . biggrin.gif

As for your repairing/welding - it's really opened my eyes to what is possible when it comes to cutting and then refitting panels. I've always tried to unpick whole panels rather than cut across them but now that you've shown what's possible I might be a bit braver.
I certainly couldn't replicate those butt welds just yet - mucho practice required !
Thanks for the inspiration.


Posted by: defianty Mar 17 2018, 04:05 AM

Nice work Brent - you're catching me up!

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 17 2018, 09:08 AM

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: ablesnead Mar 17 2018, 12:06 PM

...well you gotta pay some attention to the dog...wife too I guess...but you are now responsible for the emotional travels of all of us that would never do what you are doing , and satisfying that experience vicariously through yours...WE JUST CANNOT BE LEFT HANGING !...Please dont quit on this project , its all about your fans....

Posted by: Dion Mar 17 2018, 09:02 PM

pray.gif welder.gif love the work Brent.
Also enjoying all the wildlife keep it all coming!
Glad to see your eyes are better and back in the swing of things.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 17 2018, 10:00 PM

You guys are too kind. I've been cracking up about that Leslie Nielsen clip all day. So as not to leave anyone hanging, here's today's progress.

First I lowered the skirt on the passenger's side. It was a bitch getting that panel fit and clamped in place, but I persevered.

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Then a couple hours of slow welding and it was in. Those zits in the middle were from filling in the holes left from the PO's body work.

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Attempting the vanishing act

Now to get serious about grinding and see if I can make those welds disappear, but first, a word about safety.

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We'll see if this keeps the shit out of my eyes. laugh.gif

Grinding, grinding, and more grinding. Hours later, here we are.

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Not invisible yet, but it's looking promising. There are a few pinholes to fill, but not too many. Hopefully with hammer and dolly and judicious use of the torch, I can make even these remaining googes disappear.

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Now for the important stuff. Despite living within eyesight of a chain of beaver ponds, they have so far eluded my haphazard attempts to capture on camera, so no beaver shots today. av-943.gif I've managed to snap shots of ripples on water just after they dove, and once got a fantastic shot of a beaver dam a split second after the beaver jumped off. So, the best I can do is a shot of one of the ponds.

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And a muskrat swimming in it.

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Posted by: andrewb Mar 18 2018, 12:40 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 18 2018, 06:00 AM) *
no beaver shots today. av-943.gif


biggrin.gif

Ah well - there's always the sandbox.

On less important matters - what worries me about the welding/grinding thing - with my rubbish welding - is that I never know how much thickness of weld is left after I've ground the top off. Lots of practice required on bits of scrap I guess.
Keep going with the master class.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Mar 18 2018, 06:09 AM

Really nice work. beerchug.gif
I really would like to see a beaver in the wild though..... but I appreciate the Muskrat.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 18 2018, 07:43 AM

"The ever elusive Beaver..." Reminds me of my college days.

Brent - Glad to hear your eyes are all good. Great work on those fenders! There's a part of me that almost wants to leave the weld lines visible and go with a Frankenstein theme... OK, maybe not.

Here's hoping that getting the fenders back on is one of those points in time when you can step back, feel it's all worth it, and appreciate just how far you've come. We sure do! beerchug.gif

Again, great work and thanks for taking us along with you on your rebuild/rebirth journey. Keep it coming and best to you, my friend.

Chris

Posted by: mb911 Mar 18 2018, 07:47 AM

Looks great.. Someday I get that far grinding. Not at that stage yet..

Posted by: bbrock Mar 18 2018, 08:19 AM

I like this crowd beerchug.gif OT warning: Quick beaver diversion. Years ago when the beaver moved into the valley, the dam caused some minor road flooding during spring snow melt (which always happened but had become worse because of the dam). The then chairman of our road maintenance committee took it upon himself to whack a chunk out of the beaver dam with a backhoe in November just before winter freeze. That left the beaver lodge high and dry, which left the little buggers no choice but to burrow into the bank for shelter - in this case, the bank being under the road. Of course, the road collapsed. The next road meeting was all about what to do about "the beaver problem." Most were concerned for preserving the beaver, including the land owner where the pond was built. I stood up and explained why whacking the dam caused the worse problem of burrowing under the road, and offered up a device called the "Beaver Deceiver" as a solution that would let the beaver stay but also maintain the water level where we wanted it. I also rattled off some facts about how beaver are good for our wells and had built a very nice fire protection pond for free. Immediately people in the crowd started calling me "Beaver Man" to which I responded that I didn't think my wife would care for that nickname at all. Stone silence from the crowd. It's nice to be in a group that appreciates good beaver humor.

BTW, we never needed the Beaver Deceiver. By that time, the beavers were well on their way to building a chain of dams that slows down the snow melt and the road hasn't flooded in years because of them. As usual, beaver is the solution, not the problem.

Now back to the regularly scheduled program.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 18 2018, 08:33 AM

Lol that is hilarious.. Love it..

Posted by: bbrock Mar 18 2018, 09:06 AM

QUOTE(andrewb @ Mar 18 2018, 12:40 AM) *

On less important matters - what worries me about the welding/grinding thing - with my rubbish welding - is that I never know how much thickness of weld is left after I've ground the top off. Lots of practice required on bits of scrap I guess.
Keep going with the master class.


Okay, back OT. This has been my nemesis from the start. It took me awhile to figure out how much harder the weld filler was than the surrounding material, and that the weld usually winds up in a little valley thanks to the shrink. Ben's tutelage has been a huge help understanding this. Being able to scrutinize and copy the work of Ben, Stephen, Chris, and others has also been important. And then there is the work Kent is doing on Michael's car which I think is the gold standard and provides a, perhaps unattainable, goal to chase. And of course, lots of practice that you get plenty of working on a project like this.

The EZ Grind wire is interesting. It's a bit of a misnomer. It isn't that much easier to grind. But it does make a softer weld that grinds flatter to the parent material and also seems to lay a bit flatter in the joint. I was happy to see that once I ground down to the level of the parent material, much more of the weld had disapeared than with the regular wire. I've read claims that it also hammers out easier to let you restretch the shrink. Hopefully I'll find out today. In general, I think experience would trump any advantage of the softer wire, but for a bumbling idiot like me, I do think it has helped. I'm not claiming victory here yet, but I'm not defeated either!

BTW, it is amazing how much your mind wanders during the slow process of welding and grinding. It can almost be hallucinogenic. This weekend, Sebastian Cabot has popped into my head a few times. WTF.gif Anyone remember him? Man, that dates back older than my car.

Posted by: altitude411 Mar 18 2018, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 18 2018, 08:06 AM) *

This weekend, Sebastian Cabot has popped into my head a few times. WTF.gif Anyone remember him? Man, that dates back older than my car.


blink.gif The butler from family affair? Uh... startin to worry about you brother. It's that time of year here in Montana... cabin fever? or in your case garage fever?!? Go outside and take some deep breaths man, go for a long walk. your not getting your drinking water from the beaver pond are you? drunk.gif
Seriously, your doing a really fantastic job. I should see you cruising your ride in Southwest Montana this summer. Thanks for the thread!

Posted by: bbrock Mar 18 2018, 01:54 PM

QUOTE(altitude411 @ Mar 18 2018, 09:39 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 18 2018, 08:06 AM) *

This weekend, Sebastian Cabot has popped into my head a few times. WTF.gif Anyone remember him? Man, that dates back older than my car.


blink.gif The butler from family affair? Uh... startin to worry about you brother. It's that time of year here in Montana... cabin fever? or in your case garage fever?!? Go outside and take some deep breaths man, go for a long walk. your not getting your drinking water from the beaver pond are you? drunk.gif



I know, right? screwy.gif lol-2.gif I wish I could blame it on flashbacks, but I think I was the only kid in school not dropping acid. And yes, we are talking about the one and only Mr. French. How random is that?

Now how about a mid-day update?

More on the driver's quarter - knowing when to quit?

Started this morning grinding the backsides of the welds in prep for plannishing with hammer and dolly. We never get to see the seamy underbelly of these patches, so here it is before grinding.

Attached Image

Notice the plug welds inside the door jamb? Those were a PITA but I did it that way to leave nice, factory looking spots on the front. I think they look good anyway. shades.gif This pic also shows an example of what I meant a few posts back when I said I needed to be careful not to get excited and skip a step. The step I skipped was trimming the weld flange on the RD sail panel to match the factory quarter. Would have been easy before the part was welded in, not it will require some delicate surgery with the Dremel. blink.gif I'll weld that seam between flanges after the surgery.

Attached Image

After grinding the backs of the welds and plannishing with hammer and dolly followed by just a touch of grinding with an 80 grit disc, I had the welds 98% invisible (sorry, forgot to snap a pic). Then I needed to fill pin holes. Zapped them with very quick bursts to keep the heat down.

Attached Image

But dang if those didn't create a few boogers that don't seem to want to hammer and grind out. When cold hammering didn't work, I tried heating them to dull cherry with a MAP torch and hammering. It sort of worked, but I was stretching metal in areas I didn't want in addition to the booger spots. I don't know if it is because the MAP flame heats a wider area compared with O/A, or maybe I don't know what I'm doing. Anyway, if you run your hand along the seam, it feels like it has been hit by a bunch of golf balls. I think the magic shrinking disc will pull a lot of that out, and more hammer and dolly work will probably finish it up, but there is a good chance I'll need a thin skim of filler over the joints. Still, I'm pretty happy with where I left it.

Attached Image

Now back to the shop to work on the passenger's side.

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 18 2018, 02:10 PM

Installing my flares is coming up so let me be a little selfish and learn from your very recent experience:

Along those long-ish fender welds:
Did you have much of a shrinkage ditch to correct?
What's your take on how much your planishing moved the metal?

I've always understood MIG welds are brittle and really don't like to be hammered due to a tendency to crack so I've tried to avoid it. I beat the crap out of the practice TIG welds I did recently and they seemed not to care. Not that I stress tested them or anything.

Thoughts?


Posted by: bbrock Mar 18 2018, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 18 2018, 02:10 PM) *

Installing my flares is coming up so let me be a little selfish and learn from your very recent experience:

Along those long-ish fender welds:
Did you have much of a shrinkage ditch to correct?
What's your take on how much your planishing moved the metal?

I've always understood MIG welds are brittle and really don't like to be hammered due to a tendency to crack so I've tried to avoid it. I beat the crap out of the practice TIG welds I did recently and they seemed not to care. Not that I stress tested them or anything.

Thoughts?


I've been dying to dive into the gritty details but didn't want to bore people. Now I have an excuse.

I should be able to say more about shrinkage ditches at the end of the day because they look more pronounced on the passenger's side than they were on this one. On this side the ditch was most noticeable at the top shoulder of the fender where it rolls to the sail panel. Cold planishing worked very well in that area. I was actually quite surprised how well it worked. It not only flattened out the ditch, but it also seemed to push the filler back out to thicken that little line the forms at the edge. After plannishing, it was very easy to make that part of the seam disappear with some light grinding. I'm not sure why it worked so much better in that location, but having the easiest access to the back of that spot without being a contortionist, and a dolly that fit the contour perfectly might have had something to do with it.

Cold planishing worked pretty well on the rest of the welds too, but not as miraculous as that shoulder area. Remember that I used EZ Grind which is a softer alloy and it did seem to respond to the hammering more than the ER70S-6 (which feels like trying to bend a diamond). The ability to move that material with cold hammering was definitely limited, but it did seem to relax most of the shrink areas enough to grind out. I've had the same experience as you with normal MIG welds just wanting to crack when hammered. I'm pretty sure why Ben heats to dull red before hammering.

Where it got interesting was where I filled pinholes. Spots where I was able to fill with a single, quick zap ground out clean without much shrink around the edge at all. But if I missed my original mark and drug the wire for just a fraction of a second to pull it over the hole, those shrink lines seemed set in stone and didn't respond to hammering.

Now much of this might be because of poor technique. For right or wrong, I only ground the back side enough to smooth the lumps but left it proud. My thinking was that thickness would held force the metal to stretch and relax. Hindsight suggests that might have been dumb.

The ironic bottom line is that the areas that had the deepest shrink ditch in the beginning, wound up finishing the best. We'll see what happens on the passenger side. Heading out there right now.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 18 2018, 05:46 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 18 2018, 12:44 PM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 18 2018, 02:10 PM) *

Installing my flares is coming up so let me be a little selfish and learn from your very recent experience:

Along those long-ish fender welds:
Did you have much of a shrinkage ditch to correct?
What's your take on how much your planishing moved the metal?

I've always understood MIG welds are brittle and really don't like to be hammered due to a tendency to crack so I've tried to avoid it. I beat the crap out of the practice TIG welds I did recently and they seemed not to care. Not that I stress tested them or anything.

Thoughts?


I've been dying to dive into the gritty details but didn't want to bore people. Now I have an excuse.

I should be able to say more about shrinkage ditches at the end of the day because they look more pronounced on the passenger's side than they were on this one. On this side the ditch was most noticeable at the top shoulder of the fender where it rolls to the sail panel. Cold planishing worked very well in that area. I was actually quite surprised how well it worked. It not only flattened out the ditch, but it also seemed to push the filler back out to thicken that little line the forms at the edge. After plannishing, it was very easy to make that part of the seam disappear with some light grinding. I'm not sure why it worked so much better in that location, but having the easiest access to the back of that spot without being a contortionist, and a dolly that fit the contour perfectly might have had something to do with it.

Cold planishing worked pretty well on the rest of the welds too, but not as miraculous as that shoulder area. Remember that I used EZ Grind which is a softer alloy and it did seem to respond to the hammering more than the ER70S-6 (which feels like trying to bend a diamond). The ability to move that material with cold hammering was definitely limited, but it did seem to relax most of the shrink areas enough to grind out. I've had the same experience as you with normal MIG welds just wanting to crack when hammered. I'm pretty sure why Ben heats to dull red before hammering.

Where it got interesting was where I filled pinholes. Spots where I was able to fill with a single, quick zap ground out clean without much shrink around the edge at all. But if I missed my original mark and drug the wire for just a fraction of a second to pull it over the hole, those shrink lines seemed set in stone and didn't respond to hammering.

Now much of this might be because of poor technique. For right or wrong, I only ground the back side enough to smooth the lumps but left it proud. My thinking was that thickness would held force the metal to stretch and relax. Hindsight suggests that might have been dumb.

The ironic bottom line is that the areas that had the deepest shrink ditch in the beginning, wound up finishing the best. We'll see what happens on the passenger side. Heading out there right now.



The continuing thought that MIG welds are harder then TIG is just not true. The reason why people like to TIG the body panels on because there is less deposition( depositing of metal) I have not shown much of my finish work on my thread simply because I am not there yet but you can easily move the metal regardless of welding process. The only argument for a "softer" weld would be if someone has the nuts to oxy/fuel weld the panels on because the whole process is slower. You heat the metal slower, weld slower, cools slower, thus all the carbon has a chance to normalize within the lattice structure of the steel. MIG is considered a cold metal transfer and has much more likelyhood of pin holes/porosity within the weld where as with TIG what you see on top is what you get all the way through. It is very unlikely that you can hide porosity within a TIG weld..


And to my point with more deposition you have that means more heat went into the weld area HAZ is then very large and requires more grinding and that is why MIG goes out of favor for body repairs.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 18 2018, 10:50 PM

Good info there Ben. Much of this welding is still a puzzle to me, but I'm happy to say I"m not the same welder today that I was when I started this project. Hope I keep improving.

Now to finish off the progress for the weekend. This afternoon I started grinding on the passenger side but decided that when my compressor needed to catch up, I'd shift back to the driver's side to run the shrinking disc over it to see how much of the warble I could take out. I thought that way, I'd stay busy enough to keep the English butler out of my head. It didn't work. If an actor from the 60s has to be in my head, why couldn't it be Julie Newmar? I could handle that. drooley.gif Anyway, the disc did its magic and gosh darn it, I AM going to declare victory. There is still much metal finishing to do but the panel is close enough that I'll need to shoot a guide coat and block it before I can do any more. I'm very happy with it now. aktion035.gif

Attached Image

On the pass side, I decided to mix it up a little and went more aggressive grinding the back side before hammering.

Attached Image

I also decided to intermix grinding with shrinking because there were some issues with the panel. First, there was some serious oil canning at the bottom. I think that was left from the fender bender crease that prompted the quarter inch of bondo. Second, there were a couple of wicked bulges above the seam between the sail panel and quarter. Those were on me. I hadn't noticed the RD panel had a sharp roll toward the bottome edge that should have been flattened out a little before welding it in. The worst bulge was so high and tight that I was worried I would have to cut the panel to relieve the stress and flatten it. But that shrinking disc is pure witchcraft I tell you. It took quite a few passes, but those bulges laid down like lambs. I'm really happy with the line I wound up with.

Attached Image

I got as far as rough grind with 36 grit and hammering all the seams with hammer and dolly. It looks like most have raised to where they'll grind smooth except right at the shoulder roll at the top of the quarter. I'm going to use some heat on that to try to relax that metal more. This time, I'm going to fill pinheads before finishing the grinding. I'm thinking about filling them from the backside this time. It's getting there, I think.

Attached Image

Posted by: mb911 Mar 19 2018, 09:18 AM

I like the shrinking disc idea. I might try that a bit..

Posted by: raynekat Mar 21 2018, 05:32 PM

How's life up on Montana?
Bet you're ready for some Spring weather?
Looking forward to hearing about your updates.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 10:02 AM

QUOTE(raynekat @ Mar 21 2018, 05:32 PM) *

How's life up on Montana?
Bet you're ready for some Spring weather?
Looking forward to hearing about your updates.


Ha! Spring is in full bore here and it sucks. Spring weather here is a 3-month tug-o-war between winter and summer. Right now we are in the muddy, slushy, slop stage but there will be several more foot+ snow dumps followed by more slop between now and June.

Slow going
I've been picking away at the passenger side quarter. Feels like a lot of work without much progress and it isn't as pretty as the driver's side. I started with filling pinholes. I don't know how other people do this, but I'm having good luck with placing a trouble light on the back side of the panel and then chasing stars with the welder.

Attached Image

This time, I decided to try filling the holes from the backside to see what that did. I liked the result! It leaves these little zits on the face of the panel with very little shrink.

Attached Image

It only takes a little touch with an 80 grit disc to make them disappear. The shrink lines in this photo are from the original seam, not the pinholes that were filled.

Attached Image

Those shrink lines were next. I mentioned earlier that the "ditch" seemed deeper on this side than the other. I'm not sure why that is because the welder was set the same and I thought I was being just as careful to keep the heat down. Running over with the hammer and dolly cold got some of them out. I heated some of the worst areas and that helped a little. Unfortunately, my ancient JC Whitney hammer I was using had developed a little ridge on the edge that I hadn't noticed, and every time I whacked the panel, I put a nice little mark in it about as deep as the shrink I was trying to lose. Attached Image And try as I might, I just couldn't hammer them all away. So, I decided to try dialing the welder down low and see if I could add material to fill those voids.

Attached Image

I honestly thought I'd just wind up chasing the problem across the panel, but to my surprise, it helped. I don't have a pic to prove it, so you'll just have to trust me. Now the question is, how much of that do I want to do? confused24.gif

Warp Nine Captain
You may recall this side had the collision damage. Looked like probably a minor parking lot scrape that left two creases from the door jamb rearward that the PO's body shop had pulled out with a slide hammer and slapped on a 1/4 inch of bondo. Before welding the panel back on, I hammered out the creases as best I could, but did not fill the holes. Big mistake headbang.gif In hindsight, I should have filled and ground the holes and then gotten the panel flat before putting back on the car.

The upshot is that I spent several hours chasing oil canning around the panel. I would shrink and/or hammer and dolly a bulge flat and lose the oil can, only to have it reappear after smoothing out another warble elsewhere on the panel. No doubt, this is my inexperience showing, and not understanding how to apply the "first in - last out" concept on this panel. But eventually, I was able to get it to where a guide coat and blocking is needed to straighten it more (same level of finish as the driver's side).

It's tempting to continue on and finish, but I think it makes more sense at the project level to move on to finish patchwork and rough grinding all the seams; then go over the entire car with a guide coat, blocking, and metal finishing. So, here's where I'm leaving it for now.

Attached Image

Attached Image

I may still work on some of those shrink lines, and I should be able to hammer the panel flat, but ultimately, it will need a bit of filler to at least fill those hammer marks. That makes me less enthusiastic about making every single weld line disappear. But at least it is going to have a LOT less filler than before. I swear I lightened that panel by 3 lbs. removing that filler.

There was one more task I finished up this morning. I needed to weld up the inside, bottom edge of the sail panel where it meets the trunk seal channel. Didn't take a before shot, but that went pretty well although I need to figure out how to get into the back side of that channel to get it smooth. Too tight for the angle grinder.

Attached Image

This next pic also shows some significant shrinkage at the shoulder of the quarter and where I didn't quite have the tail edge of the sail panel aligned. I had a clamp in there, but still didn't get it. You can also see some pitting left behind by moisture getting trapped under the thick bondo that was there. My thinking is that I'll address that with some body solder and will just address the weld seams the same way while I'm there.

Attached Image

Posted by: mb911 Mar 22 2018, 10:11 AM

Looks good.. Was just talking with a world class triumph car restorer this morning about metal finishing. He echoed my concerns of thining the metal too much by making the weld disappear and said allot of times you take a panel which might be 18 or 19 GA and thin it to 22 or thinner in spots and thus cracking can occur.. I think the goal is to get as much warpage as possible out with the majority of the weld removed and let filler do the rest. The quality is so much better then what it was 20 years ago.. Your car will finish very nice..

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 10:25 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 10:11 AM) *

Looks good.. Was just talking with a world class triumph car restorer this morning about metal finishing. He echoed my concerns of thining the metal too much by making the weld disappear and said allot of times you take a panel which might be 18 or 19 GA and thin it to 22 or thinner in spots and thus cracking can occur.. I think the goal is to get as much warpage as possible out with the majority of the weld removed and let filler do the rest. The quality is so much better then what it was 20 years ago.. Your car will finish very nice..


Thanks Ben, that is very good to hear. The rule I've been trying to apply is that if I can feel that the weld is thicker than the parent material with my hands, then I grind some more. If not, I stop. I also do a lot of rapping on the panels with my knuckles. I don't know what that tells me but if it feels solid, it makes me happy. biggrin.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 22 2018, 10:50 AM

Brent - I really appreciate the details you're documenting. Speaking for myself, I'm a rank amateur at all this and while reading the books/watching the videos by the experts gives one the "book smarts", there's no substitute for "street smart" (or in this case, "shop smarts"! laugh.gif

And it's encouraging (for me, at least) to see others climb the learning curve as I do the same. Much as I appreciate those experts, nothing is as frustrating as watching how easy they make it look then realizing that just ain't the case!

So again, thanks for sharing all the good/bad and learnings! Much appreciated. aktion035.gif

Hey, I know! On the All Metal Shaping site (AWESOME site, btw), they have a "Metal Shaper of the Month" they award.

Acknowledging that Kent would win every month (!!!), I hear-by nominate you as the first monthly "914 Rustorer of the Month, March 2018"!

Congratulations. This award, plus $1.75, will get you a small coffee.

Posted by: burton73 Mar 22 2018, 11:05 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 22 2018, 09:50 AM) *

Brent - I really appreciate the details you're documenting. Speaking for myself, I'm a rank amateur at all this and while reading the books/watching the videos by the experts gives one the "book smarts", there's no substitute for "street smart" (or in this case, "shop smarts"! laugh.gif

And it's encouraging (for me, at least) to see others climb the learning curve as I do the same. Much as I appreciate those experts, nothing is as frustrating as watching how easy they make it look then realizing that just ain't the case!

So again, thanks for sharing all the good/bad and learnings! Much appreciated. aktion035.gif

Hey, I know! On the All Metal Shaping site (AWESOME site, btw), they have a "Metal Shaper of the Month" they award.

Acknowledging that Kent would win every month (!!!), I hear-by nominate you as the first monthly "914 Rustorer of the Month, March 2018"!

Congratulations. This award, plus $1.75, will get you a small coffee.

agree.gif

Bob B

Posted by: mb911 Mar 22 2018, 11:16 AM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Mar 22 2018, 09:05 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 22 2018, 09:50 AM) *

Brent - I really appreciate the details you're documenting. Speaking for myself, I'm a rank amateur at all this and while reading the books/watching the videos by the experts gives one the "book smarts", there's no substitute for "street smart" (or in this case, "shop smarts"! laugh.gif

And it's encouraging (for me, at least) to see others climb the learning curve as I do the same. Much as I appreciate those experts, nothing is as frustrating as watching how easy they make it look then realizing that just ain't the case!

So again, thanks for sharing all the good/bad and learnings! Much appreciated. aktion035.gif

Hey, I know! On the All Metal Shaping site (AWESOME site, btw), they have a "Metal Shaper of the Month" they award.

Acknowledging that Kent would win every month (!!!), I hear-by nominate you as the first monthly "914 Rustorer of the Month, March 2018"!

Congratulations. This award, plus $1.75, will get you a small coffee.

agree.gif

Bob B



agree.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 22 2018, 11:26 AM

And re: the monthly award, there are so many we need to thank. As with the acceptance speeches at the Oscars, I feel compelled to give shout-outs or "who's next?" to many others who I'll cite as inspiring me:

Cary, Ben, Defianty, the aforementioned Kent... EDIT: Yes, Dion, too!

I'm sure I'm missing others, apologies to you.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 11:52 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Mar 22 2018, 10:50 AM) *

Acknowledging that Kent would win every month (!!!), I hear-by nominate you as the first monthly "914 Rustorer of the Month, March 2018"!

Congratulations. This award, plus $1.75, will get you a small coffee.


Oh my! This is such an honor. I have so many people to thank.... first.gif

Seriously though, I really appreciate these comments. I've wondered often how much detail should go into these posts. I've learned so much from Cary's detailed posts that I thought I'd try to give some back, if only to document the struggle. And yes, I've been frustrated by being able to easily find examples of the perfect butt joint but struggle to find details of how they got there. Of course, one way or the other, I'll get the body surfaces perfect and then F it all up somehow with the paint av-943.gif

Haven't been on the Metal Shaping site for a few months and need to get back over there.

And I want to add Dion to the list of inspirations. A fellow warrior in our current cohort touched by the madness!

Posted by: Dion Mar 22 2018, 12:05 PM

Aww shucks! Heheheh thanks for the shout out fellas.
Tons I need to learn. You guys do make it look easy. first.gif
Besides misery loves company, but this is the best kind of misery.
It’s actually therapeutic for me working with this project and following you guys.
Have at it! beerchug.gif

Posted by: mb911 Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif


Hey man, this thread doesn't work without you out front ahead of me so I can copy. Stop fiddling with that water pumper and get busy. poke.gif

Posted by: mb911 Mar 22 2018, 04:08 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 01:59 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif


Hey man, this thread doesn't work without you out front ahead of me so I can copy. Stop fiddling with that water pumper and get busy. poke.gif



Lol. Plan to prime this weekend along with working on the water pumper.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 04:10 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 04:08 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 01:59 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif


Hey man, this thread doesn't work without you out front ahead of me so I can copy. Stop fiddling with that water pumper and get busy. poke.gif



Lol. Plan to prime this weekend along with working on the water pumper.

popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: 914Toy Mar 22 2018, 04:12 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 03:10 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 04:08 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 01:59 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif


Hey man, this thread doesn't work without you out front ahead of me so I can copy. Stop fiddling with that water pumper and get busy. poke.gif



Lol. Plan to prime this weekend along with working on the water pumper.

popcorn[1].gif
\

Perhaps this comment is too late, but I think your door braces should not be in tension but should be in compression sad.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 22 2018, 04:27 PM

QUOTE(914Toy @ Mar 22 2018, 04:12 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 03:10 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 04:08 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 01:59 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Mar 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

Chris, Dion we should just merge our threads to this page amd just all post progress. Though my thread doesn't get much feedback I may be an anchor to this thread. biggrin.gif


Hey man, this thread doesn't work without you out front ahead of me so I can copy. Stop fiddling with that water pumper and get busy. poke.gif



Lol. Plan to prime this weekend along with working on the water pumper.

popcorn[1].gif
\

Perhaps this comment is too late, but I think your door braces should not be in tension but should be in compression sad.gif

Dangit! headbang.gif JK smile.gif Actually, the braces are neutral right now. After all of the long and jamb work, I loosened them up to make sure my gaps and dimensions held. Luckily, they did. I might have snugged them up just enough to keep them from banging around when I rolled the chassis, but they aren't doing much at this point. But I've been meaning to ask when most people take the braces off??? Should I put a little compression force on them as added support while the car is on rotisserie?

Posted by: tygaboy Mar 22 2018, 05:53 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 22 2018, 03:27 PM) *

Dangit! headbang.gif JK smile.gif Actually, the braces are neutral right now. After all of the long and jamb work, I loosened them up to make sure my gaps and dimensions held. Luckily, they did. I might have snugged them up just enough to keep them from banging around when I rolled the chassis, but they aren't doing much at this point. But I've been meaning to ask when most people take the braces off??? Should I put a little compression force on them as added support while the car is on rotisserie?


I vote leave them on until you are all the way done with the rotisserie. Even with my RaceRod door bars fully welded in, I can twist the door braces and open/close the gaps a bit. I do have a fair bit of rear extension on my rotisserie that gives it more leverage to flex the chassis, but still. More support is better than less. My $.02.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 23 2018, 10:46 AM

Had time for a quick clean-up task while waiting on 7Gb of Lidar data to download this morning. I needed to drill and reinforce the pass. sail panel for the trim clip to match the other side.

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There's a little tab underneath that is an extension of the middle wall of the roll bar to reinforce the clip bolt (this one will get cleaned up and repaired after some media blasting). I thought this would be easier to add after the sail panel was on, but now I don't know why. screwy.gif

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Regardless, it was pretty simple to locate and drill the hole up top.

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... tack in a tab below and drill to match. I didn't worry too much about getting an exact match and pretty, I'm just going for function here.

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Posted by: bbrock Mar 24 2018, 10:28 AM

Well It's Official ...
It's a Porsche - got confirmation in the mail yesterday.

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I have a few questions about the COA that I'll also post on the originality forum before contacting PCNA, but here they are:

1. I supplied the transmission # but COA shows "not confirmed." Does this mean they have no record of he original # or does it mean they don't match? I think I have all the receipts from PO (2nd owner) on this car that start in 1976. Seems unlikely that the tranny was replaced after only 3 years.

2. Paint code: My Karmann tag lists L96D silver metallic as the paint code, COA lists Silver Metallic/80. Is that just the Porsche code for the same color?

3. Options: COA just states "US Equipment." My car seems to be a bit of an oddball and the main reason for ordering the COA was hoping to confirm it. It is a '73 2.0L WITHOUT appearance group (no vinyl pillars, chrome bumpers, or fog lights) but it DOES have Performance group options (front and rear factory sway bars, center console, and fuchs wheels (all 5 of them)). Shouldn't that show up on the options list?

I was happy to see they listed my engine as matching. aktion035.gif

In other news...
I'm getting to the point where I need to do some media blasting before I can complete final rust repairs. We have been in spring thaw so I spent a couple of ours plowing snow out from under the tent garage frame. I needed just one more sunny day to melt the remaining snow off so I could throw the cover back on. And today???

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And yes, I wore appropriate foot attire to enjoy the spring weather:

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Posted by: dr.tim Mar 24 2018, 10:38 AM

Blue skies in Butte America. We'll see what the day holds. confused24.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 24 2018, 10:42 AM

QUOTE(dr.tim @ Mar 24 2018, 10:38 AM) *

Blue skies in Butte America. We'll see what the day holds. confused24.gif


Good to know! I'll hope for the best. Unfortunately, we are near the top of Bozeman Pass so can be socked in with snow even when it is clear in Bozeman 12 miles away. But maybe I'll get lucky and it will clear off. thumb3d.gif

Posted by: bbrock Mar 24 2018, 07:43 PM

Hiding Sins

Did a bunch of grinding today. Not exciting. Then I decided to finally fix that cock-eyed seat mount that I've been putting off. I decided to cut it out from the back using the good 'ol Rotobroach. That way, all the ugliness will be under the car and covered by undercoat.

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I don't know what the deal was with that bracket, but it kept wanting to go in cattywampus like it did the first time. I wound up having to screw down and weld one side before screwing down and welding the other, but I got it done. This should hide under the undercoat.

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Mucho mejor -

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Posted by: bbrock Mar 25 2018, 07:53 PM

Aimless wandering

Spent the day doing stuff with no particular plan. First I ground welds for awhile. Then i scraped undercoating until I got tired of that.

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Then I welded in the most important parts in the whole car:

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Don't you see them? Here's one right here.

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Everybody knows the car won't start without the carpet buttons.

Next I fiddled around and took apart the seat mounts to separate parts for painting and parts for plating.

Finally, I came full circle to complete some unfinished welding on the front trunk where this crazy project started. Needed to finish up a butt seam under the right headlight bucket that I'd left for when the car was on the rotisserie.

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That's kind of boring, so how about some fornicating frogs to spice things up?

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Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 26 2018, 09:49 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 25 2018, 06:53 PM) *

Everybody knows the car won't start without the carpet buttons.


I don't think either of us is old enough to remember, but there used to be cars (trucks? I told you I'm not old enough to remember these!!) that activated the starter by stepping on a button on the floor of the car....

--DD

Posted by: bbrock Mar 26 2018, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 26 2018, 09:49 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 25 2018, 06:53 PM) *

Everybody knows the car won't start without the carpet buttons.


I don't think either of us is old enough to remember, but there used to be cars (trucks? I told you I'm not old enough to remember these!!) that activated the starter by stepping on a button on the floor of the car....

--DD


Oh man! You just brought back a memory. I have a vague memory of my uncle having an old truck on his farm that started with the floor button. I think that was the first car my older brother ever drove. I'll have to ask him about that. I'm sure we both remember when the light dimmer switch was on the floor. I still think that is the proper spot for a dimmer switch.

Posted by: Lucky9146 Mar 26 2018, 10:54 AM

I wanted to post my reply below that I made on my thread to the comment you made on my thread about "living vicariously" and offer as much encouragement as I can on your project!


QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 24 2018, 08:21 AM) *

Fantastic! cheer.gif I'm living vicariously.


Please do!
Well my friend I would say you are meeting the challenges well on your car. Your car is coming along very nicely. Your welding skills far exceed mine and thankfully I did not have that hurdle. I shall never again complain about it being cold in my garage here in So Cal. after seeing your winter pictures. I see you started in 2017, so, far less time than I have been working on mine and hopefully it will be done in a shorter amount of time. Mine has only been off the road since Clinton was in office. biggrin.gif Different hurdles we faced for sure but in the end you will have the pride of doing it yourself. Congrats on your progress and having the presence of mind to post the picture of fornicating frogs on your thread. Keep up the good work and I shall follow you more closely from now on. beerchug.gif
white914.jpg

Posted by: aggiezig Mar 26 2018, 11:26 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 25 2018, 08:53 PM) *

Spent the day doing stuff with no particular plan.


These are often the most productive days in my book... knocking out a whole lot of little things. I have to say that I just can't wrap my mind around your level of determination. Keep up the great work, you've practically rebuilt the entire body in a matter of months and it's going to end up way better than it ever left the P-car factory.

welder.gif

Posted by: euro911 Mar 26 2018, 02:16 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Mar 26 2018, 08:56 AM) *
QUOTE(Dave_Darling @ Mar 26 2018, 09:49 AM) *
I don't think either of us is old enough to remember, but there used to be cars (trucks? I told you I'm not old enough to remember these!!) that activated the starter by stepping on a button on the floor of the car....

--DD
Oh man! You just brought back a memory. I have a vague memory of my uncle having an old truck on his farm that started with the floor button. I think that was the first car my older brother ever drove. I'll have to ask him about that. I'm sure we both remember when the light dimmer switch was on the floor. I still think that is the proper spot for a dimmer switch.
I AM old enough to remember them shades.gif

Posted by: PlantMan Mar 27 2018, 01:47 PM

Hey Brent,
I am enjoying the thread. Keep up the great work.

Regarding your quarter panel work, I am struggling with the idea of notching my panels to get to the hell hole and sail panel (minor) rust which you have done or just removing the panel all together which would allow me to get behind and into the hell hole and sail area unencumbered. Perhaps it is just a trade-off in time between notching the panel or removing it all together.

Would like to hear if you considered complete removal previously and if you had to do it again would you do the same thing?

Thanks,
Kevin

Posted by: bbrock Mar 27 2018, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(PlantMan @ Mar 27 2018, 01:47 PM) *

Hey Brent,
I am enjoying the thread. Keep up the great work.

Regarding your quarter panel work, I am struggling with the idea of notching my panels to get to the hell hole and sail panel (minor) rust which you have done or just removing the panel all together which would allow me to get behind and into the hell hole and sail area unencumbered. Perhaps it is just a trade-off in time between notching the panel or removing it all together.

Would like to hear if you considered complete removal previously and if you had to do it again would you do the same thing?

Thanks,
Kevin


Hi Kevin,

I did briefly consider removing the whole panel but not for long. If you use the RD sail panel patch, then you are going to have to run a long butt seam regardless. Cutting the quarter where I did only adds about 6 inches of extra seam. Now if the rust on the sail is minor enough that you only need small patches without replacing the whole sail piece, then removing and replacing the whole quarter is a no-brainier. Much easier to cut spots and re-install with plugs than trying to quilt pieces together. That was my thought process anyway.

Posted by: bbrock Mar 28 2018, 08:36 AM

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First a scrubbing alongside fruit fly vials in my personal dishwasher. And you thought washing car parts in a dishwasher was weird rolleyes.gif

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Chipped out the old cracked tar, cleaned traces with contact cleaner, scrubbed with isopropyl alcohol, filled holes with silicone. I think you could power a small city through those traces. Massive.

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and sealed with epoxy potting compound.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 1 2018, 09:03 AM

Don't Change that Channel... No wait... Do!

It's getting down to the wire on rust repair, so time to tackle seal channel repairs. There is only one spot in the rear trunk to fix so I started there. It's a frustrating one too because it doesn't look that bad at first glance. The corrosion was between layers of the channel and would only grow if not repaired.

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I cut it out and soaked Ospho into the seam overnight.

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The biggest reason I've been dreading channel repair is because I don't have a sheer and the channel edges need to be perfectly straight and square to look good. A vice and bastard file makes an acceptable poor man's sheer for short pieces like this.

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A more confident and competent fabricator could probably save time by fabbing both layers of the channel and plug welding them together before welding in place, but I had to tackle it one layer at a time.

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There is a gentle curve in the channel so I tacked the ends of the bottom layer first and then flexed the middle to match perfectly to the original curve before tacking the rest.

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A copper backing plate on the ends made filling those easy.

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Then zapped the rest in. You can see spatter in sections of this weld. That's because I just towel dried the seam after neutralizing the Ospho with water so there was steam coming out of areas of the weld. I wasn't worried about it because that seam will get a second pass when the top layer goes on. After this pic was taken, I ground the seam just enough to square up a shoulder for the next layer to butt up against.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 1 2018, 09:21 AM

Same Bat Channel!... Continued

Next was bending the top layer on the brake. I cut the blank wider than needed so I could clamp and bend easier. Then I trimmed it to slightly oversize and punched holes for plug welds. I took it to the stretcher to match that gentle curve. It took very light work on the stretcher. Easy to overdo it. Finally, trimmed to fit the bottom of the channel. Here, it's ready to go in.

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I left the free edge long.

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After welding it in and rough grinding, I used a straight piece of 1 inch by 1/8 inch thick aluminum to flex along the curve of the trunk channel while the wife scribed a line. Sorry, no pic, our hands were full!

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I finally get to use my body file! After grinding the free edge to the scribe line with the angle grinder, I finished the job with the file for a perfect factory looking edge that matches the curve.

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Then some grinding with a cutting wheel on the die grinder (what did Cary call that? The Johnny Wheel?), and finished with 80 grit on the angle grinder on the areas I could reach. I picked up a 3/8" air belt sander with my HF 25% coupon yesterday and will try to smooth out the bottom of the channel later today. Overall, I'm pleased.

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What the Hell!!!!!????

Late in the day I worked on more prepping the car for blasting before heading to a party in town. The VIN stamp in the frunk was so caked with paint to the point it was unreadable.

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I soaked a rag with acetone and scrubbed it off. The number does not match my VIN!!! WTF.gif

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Is that just a part number? I thought it was supposed to be the VIN confused24.gif

Posted by: altitude411 Apr 1 2018, 09:58 AM

Congratulations... you are the proud owner of a six! Well at least the vin number of a six, well ok at least the owner of a picture of a vin# of a six!?! confused24.gif idea.gif but then again it is April 1st so we can't trust anything you post. poke.gif That vin was last known to be in MO in 2009. Heres a photo from Glenn Stazak's 914-6 registry site

* also, this post on the bird site? humm... idea.gif http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/497035-f-s-1970-original-914-6-numbers-match-60k-miles.html
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Posted by: mb911 Apr 1 2018, 11:02 AM

Ha ha a good one..

I didn't have to do that repair.. Guess I lucked out.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 1 2018, 11:18 AM

QUOTE(altitude411 @ Apr 1 2018, 09:58 AM) *

Congratulations... you are the proud owner of a six! Well at least the vin number of a six, well ok at least the owner of a picture of a vin# of a six!?! confused24.gif idea.gif but then again it is April 1st so we can't trust anything you post. poke.gif That vin was last known to be in MO in 2009. Heres a photo from Glenn Stazak's 914-6 registry site

* also, this post on the bird site? humm... idea.gif http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/497035-f-s-1970-original-914-6-numbers-match-60k-miles.html
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QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 1 2018, 11:02 AM) *

Ha ha a good one..

I didn't have to do that repair.. Guess I lucked out.


Oh, you know what? I think I might have mixed up photos. My bad. Something like this seems to happen like clock work every year. lol-2.gif

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 2 2018, 10:40 AM

We had dinner guests, so not much progress yesterday. But I couldn't resist sneaking out to the shop briefly after company left. I couldn't dig into anything too dirty and have been dying to try out my Durablock set and do some metal bumping. So I dusted the left quarter with guide coat and blocked it with 80g just to see what I would be dealing with. It was actually a bit worse than this pic shows because I bumped out about four low shots before grabbing the camera.

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I've marked out the spots that will need additional shrinking I think. Then I'll see what remains of low spots and try to raise them. I picked up a HF door skin kit last week to add a slapper and a couple more dollies to the collection, but the hammer has already found a use too. I really don't know what I'm doing but this is fun! clap56.gif

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We'll come back to that later to see how I do.

Same Bat Channel Again...
I have a slow work day today, so stole a little extra time this morning to finish up the trunk channel. The cheapo air sander I picked up at HF for about 20 bucks is just the ticket for smoothing welds inside those channels. I knocked down the high spots with the edge of a 14" bastard file (I just like saying "bastard") and then finished with 60g and 80g paper. I need to order better sanding belts. HF abrasive products are pure stromberg.gif. But it worked, and with a teeny bit of filler, we'll never know we were there.

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What Hump?
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Warning: the following contains graphic detail and nit-pickery and is not intended for sane audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.


Okay, here's where I could really use some advice. Maybe I'm getting way too picky, but I've come close to cutting this channel repair out and starting over. When I said "light touch" on the stretcher to match the trunk arch, I really meant it. Even my light touch overdid it a scosche and wound up with an arch that is slightly off from the original curve.

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The bottom of the channel is double-walled at this point so pretty stubborn, but I used a piece of bar stock and hammer to tap it down closer to the original curve. That caused the overstretched wall to curve inward over the channel, so I hit them with the shrinking disc which helped, but it was hard to build enough heat and the going was slow, so I reverted to the MAPP torch to heat the walls and quench them to shrink them back down, followed by working the top edge a little more with the body file to get the profile adjusted. That helped, and eventually I got things pretty close, but not perfect.

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After staring at it for way too long, I realized that a lot of the arch mismatch was an optical illusion because my bending brake left a slightly larger radius on the bend than the original channel. That was causing a shadow line that made the arch look higher than it was. I hit it with a little primer to see how it might look after painting.

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I might be able to live with that, but I'm still on the fence about it. What say ye? confused24.gif

Posted by: mb911 Apr 2 2018, 10:44 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 2 2018, 08:40 AM) *

We had dinner guests, so not much progress yesterday. But I couldn't resist sneaking out to the shop briefly after company left. I couldn't dig into anything too dirty and have been dying to try out my Durablock set and do some metal bumping. So I dusted the left quarter with guide coat and blocked it with 80g just to see what I would be dealing with. It was actually a bit worse than this pic shows because I bumped out about four low shots before grabbing the camera.

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I've marked out the spots that will need additional shrinking I think. Then I'll see what remains of low spots and try to raise them. I picked up a HF door skin kit last week to add a slapper and a couple more dollies to the collection, but the hammer has already found a use too. I really don't know what I'm doing but this is fun! clap56.gif

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We'll come back to that later to see how I do.

Same Bat Channel Again...
I have a slow work day today, so stole a little extra time this morning to finish up the trunk channel. The cheapo air sander I picked up at HF for about 20 bucks is just the ticket for smoothing welds inside those channels. I knocked down the high spots with the edge of a 14" bastard file (I just like saying "bastard") and then finished with 60g and 80g paper. I need to order better sanding belts. HF abrasive products are pure stromberg.gif. But it worked, and with a teeny bit of filler, we'll never know we were there.

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What Hump?
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Warning: the following contains graphic detail and nit-pickery and is not intended for sane audiences. Viewer discretion is advised.


Okay, here's where I could really use some advice. Maybe I'm getting way too picky, but I've come close to cutting this channel repair out and starting over. When I said "light touch" on the stretcher to match the trunk arch, I really meant it. Even my light touch overdid it a scosche and wound up with an arch that is slightly off from the original curve.

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The bottom of the channel is double-walled at this point so pretty stubborn, but I used a piece of bar stock and hammer to tap it down closer to the original curve. That caused the overstretched wall to curve inward over the channel, so I hit them with the shrinking disc which helped, but it was hard to build enough heat and the going was slow, so I reverted to the MAPP torch to heat the walls and quench them to shrink them back down, followed by working the top edge a little more with the body file to get the profile adjusted. That helped, and eventually I got things pretty close, but not perfect.

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After staring at it for way too long, I realized that a lot of the arch mismatch was an optical illusion because my bending brake left a slightly larger radius on the bend than the original channel. That was causing a shadow line that made the arch look higher than it was. I hit it with a little primer to see how it might look after painting.

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I might be able to live with that, but I'm still on the fence about it. What say ye? confused24.gif



I will say that no one will know notice it once everything is 1 color.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 2 2018, 10:53 AM

As you know, it's often tough to get the true vibe via pics but here's my $.02:

I'd put the seal on there and see what it does/looks like and be sure everything fits and functions. Assuming so, celebrate with a beer and move on!

IMO, you and I are of a kind in that we worry about details like this that are likely never going to be seen. I think that's a good thing because, well, "perfect is perfect". But, again, IMO, if it's not a concourse thing, "don't let perfect get in the way of good enough."

And note that by "good enough", I mean "a nice job".

I'm coming to grips with this very thing as I get deeper into my build. In my case, it's striking a balance between developing skills ahead of working on the car vs making progress and feeling good about the less than perfect execution.

Said more succinctly: Function over form (so long as the form doesn't totally suck!)

Keep up the great work!

Posted by: bbrock Apr 2 2018, 12:17 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Apr 2 2018, 10:53 AM) *

IMO, you and I are of a kind in that we worry about details like this that are likely never going to be seen. I think that's a good thing because, well, "perfect is perfect". But, again, IMO, if it's not a concourse thing, "don't let perfect get in the way of good enough."


Oh be honest, you would have been on at least version 3 by now. poke.gif Actually, I'm pretty sure you would have gotten this one spot on the first time. pray.gif

Having little non-functional flaws that will be completely hidden is one thing, but on these exposed parts, my self-criticism goes into hyper-drive. Thanks Ben and Chris, you are right, this isn't going to be noticeable by anyone but me or a concourse judge. But..... I have a plan now.

I thought putting the seal on was a good idea so I tipped the car sideways to make room for a ladder to climb up to the shelf where I've piled most of the old seals. Yes, space is that tight in the garage. I didn't find the seal. Either I tossed it, or it is in the shed on the back forty. But while I was on the ladder, I looked down and got the perfect perspective on the channel. It really is just a matter of the bend radius. That means two things: 1) cutting it out and starting again won't help because I'd wind up with the same radius from the brake. 2) if I shoot that with high build primer/filler, I'll bet I can contour that line to blend perfectly with the rest of the channel. It is barely perceptible as it is, that would take me to the perfection I seek. So.... moving on.... for now. aktion035.gif

Posted by: bbrock Apr 3 2018, 09:46 PM

I found that metal bumping is the perfect task when Mr. Magoo to putter on the car without getting dirty. I bumbled around for about 3 hours today with the shrinking, slapper, and hammer. I have no clue what I'm doing, but think I'm making progress. Here's where I started:

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And here's where I left it today:

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I learned how to work a lot more surgically with the shrinking disc. Starting to get the hang of off dolly and on dolly technique. The goal here is to get this finished to the point where I only need a little bit of filler directly over the weld seam. I have a long way to go, but I'm hopeful.

Also, these came today. Thanks smokey beerchug.gif

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Posted by: cary Apr 4 2018, 12:50 AM

3/8's belts.
HF, junk. Top seller on Amazon worse than HF. Smoked thru one of those in 1.5 seconds.
McMaster Carr is my go to belt. I'm going to try some 3m Cubitron one of these days. $$
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Posted by: bbrock Apr 8 2018, 10:17 PM

More Channeling
Got a late start Saturday. The lovely Montana spring weather left 2ft. snow drifts across the driveway, so I spent the morning plowing heavy spring snow. It's like trying to push wet concrete around. About the time I finished, the sun came out and by late afternoon, most of the snow had melted. But fear not, then a blizzard hit and dumped more snow through much of the night. By morning, the sun was out again and it was well above freezing. Then a white out with snow coming in sideways. Typical spring here - sucks.

Anyway, by noon Saturday I was out working on the car. Needed to repair seal channels in the front trunk. The worst was around the left headlight, so I started there. The vertical section was toast

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and the rot spilled over into the nose section.

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Before cutting anything off, I needed to fab both layers of that section. About a hundred trips back and forth from the stretcher later, I had a perfect fitting piece.

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And seconds after taking that pic, I cut a piece off what I thought was scrap. NO! It was the goddam piece I just spent an hour fabbing! headbang.gif And yes, the expletives did fly.

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The second piece took only about 20 trips to the stretcher. Then it was time to cut out the cancer.

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The horizontal piece up top looked pretty bad too.

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The top layers was a goner, but the bottom layer cleaned up pretty well - just needed a little MIG to addresses some deep pitting.

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Welding in the bottom layer was pretty straight forward. Looking pretty good.

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And then plug welded in the top layer. Good as new!

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 8 2018, 10:25 PM

Then it was on to the right side. It was as bad as the other side. It was corroded in the lower right, and upper left corners, but I decided to just zap all the holes and pitting using a copper backer. I did the same to rebuild the walls in a few spots.
I'll spare the details. Here is it after cleanup and repair.

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Like the other side, the top layer of the horizontal was toast. Actually, it was pretty much gone. That was pretty easy to replace.

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There's more rot up that side channel and below the cowl. Stay tuned...

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 9 2018, 08:10 PM

The Tale of an Amazing Vendor - shout out to PMB aktion035.gif
This set of brand new OEM green lines arrived from PMB today. piratenanner.gif I feel a little guilty about them. I actually ordered a set of OM steel budget lines back in November thinking I might install the long line in the tunnel while it was open. My plan was to paint the cheap lines to fake the OEM look. But the lines were put on backorder. Just after Christmas, they emailed to let me know that first half of the shipment from the vendor had just arrived, and mine would be in the second half arriving soon. But it didn't. I contacted them last week just to check status - I'm in no hurry. I learned the vendor had sent SS instead of the kits that were supposed to be OM steel and I was offered my choice of green lines or SS with no upcharge. Amazing - and above what was expected and I told them so, but that a set of green lines would save me having to paint. It is really over the top generous and a good example of why they are such respected vendors.

Some may be wondering why I didn't opt for SS. Honestly, I think SS brake and fuel lines are overkill for a street car that is going to be much better maintained for the rest of its life than the first of it. These lines will well out last me and have the right look. Anyway, here they are; sorry, but I'm not taking them out of the bag until they are ready to install.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 16 2018, 08:05 PM

The Saga Continues...

The gods seem to be conspiring against me for car progress. Thursday morning I was looking at bare gravel on my driveway and the birds were declaring spring had arrived. Perfect time to get the tent garage erected over the weekend and get some serous blasting done. I managed to squeeze in time to fab and weld in the little reinforcements for the rear sway bar and do a fair amount of grinding on the trunk butt seam while I was back there. Cut these out of 16 gauge with aviation snips. Thanks to Steve for getting me the correct thickness and dimensions. You need a strong grip to cut that thick of steel with hand snips. Luckily, I have a freakishly strong grip. No, not because of THAT mad.gif It's actually more weird. I spent many days since childhood flipping over huge rocks looking for critters. Yeah, this is the sign of a true nerd.

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Oh yeah... the reinforcement. Here you go.

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Then Friday morning, we had this...

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It was a bit of a Donner Party situation. Only the 3rd time in 15 years up here that the roads were impassable with 4WD and a good set of snow tires. It took until about 1 pm to dig out enough that I could hook up the plow and clear a path so Elizabeth could get to work. Believe it or not, I was able to plow without putting chains on. Barely, but I got it done. Blizzak are amazing tires. April in Montana - gotta love it. Come on out Dion, it's a paradise! Needless to say, the tent plans were foiled.

And more obstacles. A work project from hell kept me chained to my desk most of the weekend. I was able to sneak down to the car a few hours at a time while my computer was busy churning data.

Back to the seal channel repairs. Here's what I tackled this round:

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The channel walls looked good, so I decided to just cut out the bottom. That way, the repairs will be buried under the seal and everything visible will remain factory fresh.

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There's a bulge in the fuel compartment where it meets the cowl that creates a double-walled affair under the channel. Giant PITA for welding in a new bottom.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 16 2018, 08:16 PM

I tried to weld as much as I could from the bottom side because the channel interfered with the welder nozzle and there as too much stick out. That's where my inexperience showed. I had to crank up the welder wicked hot to get a good stick with the nozzle out that far. The upshot was mostly really clean looking welds interspersed with turkey shit. Here's the top side after rough grinding just part of it with a cutoff wheel. Notice the clean, unground welds on the outer edge. The Turkey shit starts on the inner edge just beyond the ground stuff. That's where the bulge blocks access from the bottom.

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And here's the same deal on the bottom. I've just knocked off the tops of the turds here.

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And the final cleanup. A bit of FG filler on the top, seam sealer on the bottom, and we'll never know it was patched.

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Probably won't get much done this week. Got to travel out of town for the project from hell.

Posted by: Dion Apr 16 2018, 08:43 PM

Wow. Great job on those channels! That looked tedious. Well
done Brent. Like Chris stated earlier about the laying the rubber strip in & or laying the boot lid (sorry trunk) down to see how it profiled. Looks like it turned out brilliant. I’ll be playing with that soon enough when I get my left rear console sorted.

My girl likes your pup:


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Posted by: bbrock Apr 16 2018, 08:48 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Apr 16 2018, 08:43 PM) *

Wow. Great job on those channels! That looked tedious. Well
done Brent. Like Chris stated earlier about the laying the rubber strip in & or laying the boot lid (sorry trunk) down to see how it profiled. Looks like it turned out brilliant. I’ll be playing with that soon enough when I get my left rear console sorted.

My girl likes your pup:


Beautiful girl! Shiba Inu? Love that color... or is that colour?

Posted by: 914 7T3 Apr 16 2018, 08:54 PM

What an incredible amount of work. Keep after it as you're getting a great result.

Posted by: Dion Apr 16 2018, 09:30 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 16 2018, 06:48 PM) *

QUOTE(Dion @ Apr 16 2018, 08:43 PM) *

Wow. Great job on those channels! That looked tedious. Well
done Brent. Like Chris stated earlier about the laying the rubber strip in & or laying the boot lid (sorry trunk) down to see how it profiled. Looks like it turned out brilliant. I’ll be playing with that soon enough when I get my left rear console sorted.

My girl likes your pup:


Beautiful girl! Shiba Inu? Love that color... or is that colour?


Hehehe , She’s a Norwegian Elkhound. She’s all about snow.

Hi jack over,
Nice progress mate.




Posted by: bbrock Apr 17 2018, 07:42 AM

I forgot to mention that I picked up a box of these sanding belts for my air file at the local paint supply for $20. I was going to try the McMaster-Carr belts Cary is using but didn't want to wait. These belts are WAY more economical than HF POS belts. HF belts are ~$1/belt but come as an assortment including belts you rarely need. 3M are $2/belt but you get 10 of the grit you want and each belt lasts 5-10 times longer than junk HF. I've used the crap out of my first belt and it is still serviceable. Well worth the $.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 22 2018, 10:13 PM

More @#$%ing Channel

I had one more large section of channel to repair in the front trunk - the passenger side under the cowl. Severe pitting and many holes. I'm not gonna lie, this piece was a giant B.

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First I had to remove the little bracket under the cowl.

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Bent a piece of angle and took it to the shrinker.

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It really didn't take long to get from this.

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to this (you might have to look close to see the patch piece is nested under the original.

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Then the cursing started. Bending the piece caused the 90 degree bend to flatten to more like 80 degrees. That wasn't hard to bend back, but doing so introduced a twist that made fitting and trimming the piece a real PITA. I had to tack the end toward the middle and work my way out toward the end, tacking as I went and making sure the channel width was correct. It was an f'ing pain.

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By the time it was tacked in place, I had gaps the size of the Grand Canyon to fill.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 22 2018, 10:23 PM

I used a copper spoon and tried to weld as much as possible from the back side because it would be easier to grind. No easy, just easiER. Man what a horrible place to work. Barely enough room to fit your head with a welding helmet on and twisted in the most godawful contortions. At one point, I managed to weld a big booger onto the copper spoon, effectively sticking it into the gap. I didn't even know that was possible and had a helluva time getting it loose. I was genuinely in a foul mood. Eventually, I got the damn thing welded in.

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It looked like shit, and grinding was just as much fun as welding. Did I mention the foul mood? It did clean up pretty well. Then I used tape to mark a straight line to trim the free edge to. Brought it down close with the angle grinder.

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Then finished with the body file.

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It did turn out nice though. I need to find something I can fit into that channel to use as a dolly to tune up that edge. As with the other channel, just a little filler and block sanding should finish it off perfectly.

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 22 2018, 10:30 PM

The Big Tent

What a difference a week makes. Last weekend we were under two and a half feet of snow. This weekend, our side of the mountain was bare. After taking Ibuprofen to kill the pain from the contortions of yesterday, I set up the tent garage.

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Just getting that blasting cabinet out of the garage has helped free up space.

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While I was enjoying the sunshine, my neighbor across the road on the north facing side got his pickup buried in at least 4 feet of snow. I would have helped, but I don't own any equipment big enough to help unstick that. Even another neighbors tractor couldn't pull it out. I'm glad I live on this side.

Posted by: tygaboy Apr 23 2018, 08:16 AM

That curved channel repair... I feel your pain, my brother! Well, not really since I didn't do the work... I have a bit of channel rust to get after, too, so thanks to you (and Cary) for the detailed coverage.

And I highly recommend:
- deep breath
- cleansing exhale

It's funny just how much we rustoration/fab folks all have in common. Hearing about your "foul mood" while you're working through a frustrating repair that requires a contortionist's flexibility? I'd laugh out loud if I hadn't been there and knew I'd be there again soon.

I expect you're doing it but a friendly reminder: Step back every so often and look at the big picture and the absolute TON of work you've accomplished! Heck, only a couple more snow storms and you'll be done! poke.gif

In any case, you're entertaining the crap out of us so thanks for that! cheer.gif

Posted by: bbrock Apr 23 2018, 08:24 AM

Speaking of snow storms... Yesterday it was in the 70s. The cranes were trumpeting and the first frogs emerged from the pond. I'm glad I got the tent up because this morning, it looks like this.

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Oh, and I kind of fudged the story from over the weekend. In reality, the channel got done in two stages with the tent going up in between. Part of that stepping back and taking a breath you spoke of. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Dion Apr 23 2018, 09:20 AM

beer.gif { “ Did I mention the foul mood? It did clean up pretty well. Then I used tape to mark a straight line to trim the free edge to. Brought it down close with the angle grinder.” }


Hahahahahah I was laughing out loud regarding the foul mood!
Oh how many times have we been there. Thanks for putting it in writing.
Sorry bout the snow again.
But wow nice work. I wish my compressor could handle the air tools.
That angle grinder is so much more compact than the electric stuff.
Hats off to ya for that channel work. It’s brilliant.
Keep at it!

Posted by: bbrock Apr 23 2018, 05:08 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Apr 23 2018, 09:20 AM) *

I wish my compressor could handle the air tools.
That angle grinder is so much more compact than the electric stuff.


Okay, I've toyed with going into tools more but decided not to. But now you have forced my hand smile.gif So here's a little of what I've learned about tools that suck, and tools that don't.

Tools that Don't Suck

Mini angle grinder - Hands down that grinder you mentioned tops the list. I can't imagine doing this project without this bad boy. It is a cheap, $15 HF jobbie. Being HF, quality control isn't good and the first one I bought didn't work for crap. I exchanged it for another (same model) and it has run like a champ ever since. Love this tool!

3/8" belt sander (air file) - I came to this one late and wish I'd bought it much earlier in the project. Boy what a fantastic tool for reaching in where nothing else goes. Again, cheap HF and I had low expectations because found several bad reviews on youtube. But they were a few years old and I've noticed on other tools that HF has addressed issues complained about on youtube. Maybe coincidence, but my file works great so far as long as you put a good quality belt on it.

Makita grinder - I have abused (and I mean ABUSED) this little 4" grinder for over 30 years now and it just keeps going. The real standout is that you can still get parts. I think it is criminal how tool companies have been bought up and chopped into pieces, leaving owners of otherwise good tools with no access to replacement parts. Even sacred Delta has been fed to the dogs. Makita seems one of the rare survivors that still offers parts for old tools. Again, can't imagine this project without the grinder. My only complaint being that it is a 4" which I prefer, but is a size that has fallen out of favor over the years which leaves you having to cobble adapters to use 4-1/2" parts on it. I've several times decided to just add a 4-1/2" to the arsenal to save time changing attachments, but then the CSOB within kicks in.

Tools That Suck
DeVilbiss air compressor - I bought my 60 gal./5 HP unit barely used on Craigslist and thought with the DeVilbiss name, it would be good. Turns out it is just a rebranded Porter-Cable and I've had such horrible luck with that brand's woodworking tools that I've sworn off of it. This is an oil-less compressor and the basic design is fine, but all the ancillary pieces are cheap crap. I immediately had to replace several fittings that failed. The biggest PITA is that the cheap pressure switch has no adjustment for cut on and cut off. The cut off is set too high which leaves the compressor running on and on as it fights to get that last 1 lb. of pressure. I need to modify it so I can set it one pound lower which would cut the time it runs by 2/3rds.

Air chucks - I can't stand air chucks that leak, but where do you find good ones? I've tried several from local sources, they all wind up hissing after a few weeks of use.

Kobalt air tools - I've been very impressed with Lowe's Kobalt brand hand tools, so when my ancient Campbell-Hausfield die grinder finally crapped out, I though the Kobalt would be a step up from HF for a tool a put a lot of wear and tear on. I hate this tool. A major peeve of my are safety triggers that don't work and ultimately make the tools dangerous. This die grinder fits that category. The stupid trigger binds and makes pulling the trigger a two-handed operation. Dangerous. It also makes it impossible to smoothly modulate the tool speed with the trigger. I need to rip that safety trigger off. Also, the tool's design makes it difficult to use without blocking the exhaust air with your hand. There goes the power. It gets the job done, but I hate it.

HF air tool oil fogger - It works about as well as you'd expect for the price, like a wet dog turd. It is impossible to adjust to get a "fog." It either doesn't feed oil at all, or it just dumps the oil into the hose to be spewed all over your face, cloths and work. Worthless.

I also splurged today and bought a compact 7000 lumen LED work light tree. I really like the design and am pretty sure it will wind up in the tools that don't suck category. It replaces my old halogen tree that most definitely was a tool that sucked. Whew! Feels good to get that off my chest.

And just as I typed that, the sun popped out and it stopped snowing. It only dumped a foot of wet concrete today. Must be spring! beer.gif

Posted by: doug_b_928 Apr 23 2018, 06:15 PM

Brent, how long are the belts you use for your belt sander? I bought one from the Canadian version of HF (Princess Auto) and I love it but the belts suck. I looked for better quality but they seem to be 13" and my sander needs 12-9/16".

Posted by: bbrock Apr 23 2018, 07:33 PM

QUOTE(doug_b_928 @ Apr 23 2018, 06:15 PM) *

Brent, how long are the belts you use for your belt sander? I bought one from the Canadian version of HF (Princess Auto) and I love it but the belts suck. I looked for better quality but they seem to be 13" and my sander needs 12-9/16".

Ouch! Mine is 13" and I wound up getting the 3M Cubitron belts which aren't cheap, but last a very long time. I haven't seen the size you need.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 28 2018, 08:07 AM

Decided to roll the car into the tent last night to finish prepping for blasting and free the garage up for a good cleaning. Last year, I left the end of the tent near the garage door off and put the tent door at the opposite end. Hopeful that I'll be painting, I wanted the whole tent closed in so installed the tent door at the garage end.

Oops!

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Then I started rethinking my earlier decision that it was important to be able to flip the car completely upside down on the rotisserie. Luckily, I'm able to flip it enough to slide the car through the door with absolutely zero room to spare.


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Now the last of the undercoat and seam sealer can come off. Check out that fancy light!

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 28 2018, 07:35 PM

Had a Blast Today...
... but not particularly fun.

Met my first World member today! dr.tim stopped by from Butte, America for a visit. Really fun chatting with you Tim. You are the first person to see this crazy project who "gets it." Great to know I have a local expert to help tune my carbs.

After Tim's visit, it was back to work. Spent some time working on removing the last of the undercoat and seam sealer. And if there is any question whether removing the sealer is necessary, I found stuff like this lurking under sealer that looked to be in great shape.

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I'm using both a needle scaler and air scraper. The needle scaler works great on thinner areas of undercoat that are pretty dry and somewhat brittle, but is worthless on thicker undercoat or seam sealer. The scraper handles the stuff the scaler won't touch. Both work best on undercoat that is cool or cold but seam sealer needs to be heated up. Today was the first real summer day in the Montana tug-o-war that is Spring. It got hot; too hot in the tent to scrape undercoat, so I switched tasks.

I want to strip the trunk out, especially under the headlight buckets so I can rust treat and prime before welding the reinforcements back in. So I set up to media blast. First, I had to remove the last non-welded-on part from the chassis. Not really worth a pic, but a ceremonial moment, so here it is. The little plastic screw anchor under the dash. BTW, these tap out with a hammer, but have a hand on the other side because they shoot out like a bullet. I heard the first one ricochet about four times inside the cockpit before hearing the dull thud of it hitting the tent wall. Glad it did because at least I had a hint where to look for it.

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Now to the fun stuff. Here's where I started; donor trunk was originally Alaska Blue Metallic I think, then resprayed to something like Bahia Red maybe.

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I really don't understand why people complain about media blasting. confused24.gif It is a perfectly horrible job. It was about 90 degrees inside the tent. Sweat dripping, crushed glass flying, blasting hood dusting AND fogging up, and is there anything more comfortable than a P95 dust mask? Good times! But here's what it got me.

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Now look at that photo again. I've read that silver metallic is one of the hardest colors to spray and I guess I'll have the joy of finding out. It also has to be the hardest color to strip. The upper fenders, bulkhead, and most of the outsides of the light buckets have not been blasted, but you have to look to notice. Now imagine trying to tell the difference peering through the peep hole of a dusty/fogging cheap blasting hood. Would love to have one of those thousand dollar, air supplied hoods, but that's just ridiculous to think about.

and finally...

Lucy... your frogs have been fornicating again...

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 29 2018, 02:47 PM

Short day today. I should tidy up some of my messes before dinner guests arrive. I didn't manage to get in some more blasting. Hit the lower areas of the fuel compartment. Not fun work but I will say it is gratifying.

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I've read it isn't necessary to get every spec of rust out because rust converter will take care of it. I have these flecks of black oxide where the metal had some pitting. It is very resistant to blasting. I'm thinking this will be okay since I'll be spraying everything with Ospho equivalent. Other opinions are welcome.

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Posted by: Dion Apr 29 2018, 07:22 PM

I’m no expert Brent but I’ve run into the same situation. Laid down the rust converter after trying to get into the crevices with sandpaper or equivalents. Then primered appropriately. Having some faith in those chemists out there that make these products.

Looking very good mate!

Posted by: aggiezig Apr 30 2018, 01:51 PM

You should be fine with the rust converter as long as you follow directions. In some places on my car I used both rust converter (phosphoric acid) and a rust encapsulating paint. The one I use is called master series, I like it better than POR-15.

Looking great btw, keep up the good work.

Posted by: mb911 Apr 30 2018, 02:02 PM

The rust converter you are using is the same as what I am.. I don't really get the idea of putting water over the converted rust other then to get the chaulky stuff off.

I am going to have faith as it is starting to get humid by us and need to cover it up with primer before all is lost.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 30 2018, 02:29 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 30 2018, 02:02 PM) *

The rust converter you are using is the same as what I am.. I don't really get the idea of putting water over the converted rust other then to get the chaulky stuff off.

I am going to have faith as it is starting to get humid by us and need to cover it up with primer before all is lost.


The water is to neutralize the acid so your primer adheres. On everything I've treated, the stuff stays kind of shiny and sticky until the water goes on to neutralize it. Then it converts to the phosphorous coating with a chalky surface that I knock off with a scotchbrite pad. So you can treat and leave it without neutralizing for a long time, but you have to neutralize before paint. Many say if it sits long, you should reactivate the acid with a light respray before neutralizing.

Posted by: mb911 Apr 30 2018, 03:02 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 30 2018, 12:29 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 30 2018, 02:02 PM) *

The rust converter you are using is the same as what I am.. I don't really get the idea of putting water over the converted rust other then to get the chaulky stuff off.

I am going to have faith as it is starting to get humid by us and need to cover it up with primer before all is lost.


The water is to neutralize the acid so your primer adheres. On everything I've treated, the stuff stays kind of shiny and sticky until the water goes on to neutralize it. Then it converts to the phosphorous coating with a chalky surface that I knock off with a scotchbrite pad. So you can treat and leave it without neutralizing for a long time, but you have to neutralize before paint. Many say if it sits long, you should reactivate the acid with a light respray before neutralizing.


So what are your thoughts with humidity in the air will also work as a neutralizing agent no?

Posted by: bbrock Apr 30 2018, 03:08 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 30 2018, 03:02 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 30 2018, 12:29 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 30 2018, 02:02 PM) *

The rust converter you are using is the same as what I am.. I don't really get the idea of putting water over the converted rust other then to get the chaulky stuff off.

I am going to have faith as it is starting to get humid by us and need to cover it up with primer before all is lost.


The water is to neutralize the acid so your primer adheres. On everything I've treated, the stuff stays kind of shiny and sticky until the water goes on to neutralize it. Then it converts to the phosphorous coating with a chalky surface that I knock off with a scotchbrite pad. So you can treat and leave it without neutralizing for a long time, but you have to neutralize before paint. Many say if it sits long, you should reactivate the acid with a light respray before neutralizing.


So what are your thoughts with humidity in the air will also work as a neutralizing agent no?


Remembering my time in humid Kansas, I could easily see humidity converting the acid to the phosphorous compound. I don't know that I would rely on it to completely neutralize the acid though. I can't tell you how glad I am not to constantly deal with humidity anymore. I have metal that has been bare for a year now and still just as shiny as the day I took the paint off.

Posted by: dr.tim May 2 2018, 06:46 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Apr 28 2018, 07:35 PM) *

Really fun chatting with you Tim. You are the first person to see this crazy project who "gets it." Great to know I have a local expert to help tune my carbs.



Likewise. It was good to catch up with a 'local.' Your car is quite the project.. and your persistence is remarkable.


Also: I'm no carb expert, just a graduate from the school of hard knocks.

Posted by: bbrock May 6 2018, 09:08 PM

Felt a little like I was chasing my tail this weekend, but I guess progress is progress. I continued with blasting. Got the steering rack area cleaned up.

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I also hit the crusty areas of the engine bay. Kind of haphazard and there is more to do in there, but I've been staring at these rusty surfaces for over a year and it's a psychological lift to be able to walk around the car and see mostly clean metal.

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The objective is to get these trunk reinforcements back on. They are the last parts I've been tripping over that need to be welded on. Trying to prep under the healidght buckets for primer first.

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It's been challenging. After blasting, it was clear the piece of original trunk ear under the headlights that wasn't replaced was badly pitted and swiss cheesed.

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Ideally, this would have been replaced when I replaced the frunk floor, but that part of my donor piece had been crunched and didn't seem repairable. Just to be sure, I dug it out of the scrap heap thinking maybe the skills I've acquired since then might allow me to salvage it. Nope. Still trash.

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Posted by: bbrock May 6 2018, 09:21 PM

I decided to try migging the holes and pits. I needed to figure out a way to fix a copper backer on to weld the holes shut. I cut a length of copper pipe, flattened it, then bent it so it would fit in the space. Next I drilled a couple of small holes and threaded a piece of mig wire through them.

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After threading the mig wire through the swiss cheese holes, I was able to pull the copper backer up tight against the hole with one hand, and weld with the other.

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It worked pretty slick. After a bit of careful blipping with the welder turned down low, I had all the holes filled. Then I whacked at it with the tip of a screw driver to find any additional weak spots and hit them too.

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After a bit of grinding, it was nice and solid. Crappy picture because of the shine, but it looks good in person.

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Then I got a nasty surprise. On closer inspection, I found I hadn't gotten under one of the buckets blasted clean, so the car will have to go back in the tent for more glass blasting. But worse, I found a nasty patch of rot under there. This is covered by the bumper bracket on the outside so went unnoticed. I'm not sure how i'm going to deal with it. It is a horrible spot for access. First step will be to media blast it so I can better assess.

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Posted by: KELTY360 May 6 2018, 10:27 PM

Hey Brent, would you like me to bring you a driver's front 1/4 piece with headlight bucket and fender back to halfway thru the wheel well? This is a pay it forward part that I got years ago and need to pass on to someone else. It's not pristine but I think there's some usable segments.

Posted by: bbrock May 6 2018, 10:34 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 6 2018, 10:27 PM) *

Hey Brent, would you like me to bring you a driver's front 1/4 piece with headlight bucket and fender back to halfway thru the wheel well? This is a pay it forward part that I got years ago and need to pass on to someone else. It's not pristine but I think there's some usable segments.


Hey Marc, You are turning out to be the savior of this project! Yeah, if that bucket section is intact, that will be just the ticket. I wish I'd found this before the car was on the rotisserie though. It's going to be interesting to say the least. Looking forward to your visit!

Posted by: KELTY360 May 7 2018, 07:53 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 6 2018, 09:34 PM) *

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 6 2018, 10:27 PM) *

Hey Brent, would you like me to bring you a driver's front 1/4 piece with headlight bucket and fender back to halfway thru the wheel well? This is a pay it forward part that I got years ago and need to pass on to someone else. It's not pristine but I think there's some usable segments.


Hey Marc, You are turning out to be the savior of this project! Yeah, if that bucket section is intact, that will be just the ticket. I wish I'd found this before the car was on the rotisserie though. It's going to be interesting to say the least. Looking forward to your visit!

This is what I have. Yours if you want it....including the ride. biggrin.gif Attached Image


Posted by: KELTY360 May 7 2018, 07:55 AM

Back side

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Posted by: bbrock May 7 2018, 08:21 AM

Hi Marc,

Great offer, but my problem is on the passenger side, I should have caught that last night but was apparently too tired... or maybe still in shock over finding that little surprise yikes.gif. Your piece would have opened some options for repair if it was from the other side. I'm going to pick your brain on this one while your here. It's a bit of a head scratcher. smile.gif

Posted by: KELTY360 May 7 2018, 08:56 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 7 2018, 07:21 AM) *

Hi Marc,

Great offer, but my problem is on the passenger side, I should have caught that last night but was apparently too tired... or maybe still in shock over finding that little surprise yikes.gif. Your piece would have opened some options for repair if it was from the other side. I'm going to pick your brain on this one while your here. It's a bit of a head scratcher. smile.gif


No problem. I'll try to find someone else who needs it. See you Wednesday.

Posted by: mb911 May 7 2018, 01:34 PM

I have a good passenger side. Yours for cost of shipping..

Posted by: bbrock May 7 2018, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ May 7 2018, 01:34 PM) *

I have a good passenger side. Yours for cost of shipping..


Thanks Ben, that's very generous. I think I need to get back in with the blaster and clean the area up nice before deciding how to tackle it. The issue is access. It is the little bulge in the outer wall of the headlight bucket/inner fender that is tucked up under the funnel for the headlight and is where the bumper bracket welds on from the outside. It's really hard to see or I would have found it and addressed it before putting the car on the rotisserie. The rust is clearly cosmetic at this point since that bracket is what a corner of the car has been hanging from for months and nothing has bent, torn, or cracked. It would be easy to bend up a patch from sheet but I don't know if I can get the welder in there to tack it in place from the inside. If I can, this will turn out to be minor, if I can't, going from the outside seems the only other option and that is a can of worms. That will require either pulling the car off the rotisserie, or rigging an alternative support that will let me pull the bumper bracket out. I'm looking at the bolt for the fog light mount as an option. Looks pretty beefy.

The fender piece could open 3 options:

1. A new trunk "ear" that would let me cut out the one I just repaired that might open some access from the inside.
2. Provide a replacement bumper bracket in case the old one can't be removed in reusable condition.
3. Provide a preformed donor patch.

Truth be told, I could probably clean this spot out, treat it with rust converter, protect it with paint, and forget about it. Somehow I don't see that happening... we'll see what I think after blasting.

Anyone have some welder nanobots they could loan me? rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mb911 May 8 2018, 06:07 AM

QUOTE(ndfrigi @ May 7 2018, 08:40 PM) *

QUOTE(rgalla9146 @ May 7 2018, 07:04 PM) *

My car with the Minilites is 914 043 1095
The other car is 914 043 1208
Thirteen apart.
My chassis 131279
The other car is chassis 131270
Eight chassis apart
My engine is 6404638
The other car has engine 6404639 !!!!!!!! Bingo !
Consecutive engine numbers !!
There's more.
My friend EJ got his 6 # 1208 a few months ago and needed someone to
reassemble it. The car had sat as a stalled restoration since 1991
The engine had been rebuilt but was never started
I'm the lucky guy who did the honors.
Unbelievably, the engine had been rebuilt by Fred Apgar, who I worked for in 1978 !
Here they are in my driveway today.



Probably twin sister of Jim’s 914-6!!!

[attachmentid=649940]



Let me know was gonna start to get rid of the metal for cost of shipping this week that I don't need any more..

Posted by: bbrock May 8 2018, 08:34 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ May 8 2018, 06:07 AM) *

Let me know was gonna start to get rid of the metal for cost of shipping this week that I don't need any more..


Finally got that area blasted tonight. I won't be needing that part but thanks for the offer. I think I can patch this in place. Not worth shipping and tearing up a fender chunk for. It ain't gonna be fun though. I thought that little hump where the hood release attaches was a giant B, this might be worse. pinch.gif

Posted by: Dion May 8 2018, 08:48 PM

Brent I like your tactic of tying the copper backing in place.
I’ll need to remember that in my future endeavors. Brilliant.
Glad you’ve found a game plan for the headlite bucket area.
I was having a hard time visualizing the spot but after rotating the
pic I understand now. Yeah that’s a tricky spot for sure.
I know you’ll remedy it!
welder.gif

Posted by: bbrock May 8 2018, 09:00 PM

Thanks Dion. I'll admit my copper "hillbilly helper" worked better than I thought.

I wouldn't say I have a game plan yet, just a better idea of worst case scenario. Hoping I can get a patch in there without tearing shit apart. Worst case, I rig up a temporary support to hold the car in the rotisserie, tear out the bumper bracket and patch the wall from the fender side, then replace with new/donor bracket. I hope I don't have to go there. Worst part is none of this will impact the structurally integrity of the chassis or the appearance, but I don't think I could go this far and leave the car like a tobacco chewer with a hole in his lip.

Posted by: bbrock May 11 2018, 08:55 AM

Special Delivery
Wednesday was a fun day. Marc (Kelty360) arrived early afternoon hauling some special cargo for my project. We quickly discovered we have a lot more interests in common than just our obsession with Porsche's red-headed step child. I have serious Westy envy and since Marc parked his camp on wheels at our house for the night, it allowed us to talk all afternoon and into the night.

Stowed away in the Westy were a pair of doors from Rich at 914Werke, and a complete set of tinted side glass. The doors need some work to fill holes from aftermarket side mirrors and screw holes from door mounted speakers (luckily they did not cut the structure), and a small repair on one of the seal channels. My original doors would take about 2 weeks to repair with uncertain results, these reduce that work to 2 days. cheer.gif But look at these beauties. They have me rethinking paint and maybe I'll just match these doors. That way, whenever anyone asks the question about what color I'm going to paint it, I could just reply, "All of them." av-943.gif

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The other goodies tucked away in Marc's Westy was a full set of tinted side glass, also from 914Werke. I didn't really need these, but my original clear glass has some deep scratches that would have needed replacing eventually and I've always wanted tinted glass. I need to clean these up but they mostly look great. I am concerned about a portion of the passenger window because there appears to be grinding slag embedded int he glass. On my quick inspection, I was able to pop some of it out with a thumbnail so hopefull the rest will do the same and I can polish it out. I've never polished glass before, anyone have suggestions?

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This is just another example of how great and supportive this 914 community is. Marc generously offered to haul any parts from Seattle I might need. I immediately thought of Chris's suggestion to see if someone passing through might be willing to haul doors. I posted a WTB and withint 15 minutes, Rich had stepped up with what I needed. If I'd listened to Rich, Marc would have been hauling a full windshield in that Westy too! But I didn't want to push my luck. And I could have really pushed it by having him haul a rear trunk lid from Rhodyguy who generously offered to send one along after catching wind that Marc was headed this way. It's just an amazing community and I thank all of you for supporting this crazy project. smiley_notworthy.gif

More Channel
Then yesterday I slipped out to the garage for a couple hours. I set the cancer under the bumper bracket aside for now and wanted to tackle something that was an easy win to boost my psyche. I have one last bit of channel to repair at the upper left corner of the frunk, and there is a hole in the fender behind the antenna mount that needs patched.

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I started with the channel. It was a pretty small area with some deep pitting, a 10mm hole, and a small nipple of channel wall next to the hole that was eroded away. I decided to try just zapping everything back into shape with the MIG. That actually worked well. It isn't quite finished but close, and that's as far as I've gotten.

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Posted by: bbrock May 12 2018, 10:54 PM

Tackled this nasty spot today.

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First, cut out the rotten parts, but save what's left of the rocker cover bracket to fab a new one.

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Then replace the rusted weld flange inside the support.

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Fabricate a patch.

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Weld it in.

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Clean it up and give it a coat of weld-thru primer.

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Now fabricate a new rocker cover bracket to patch in. That piece was a PITA, but I finally got a good dry fit.

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I need to cut the holes for the fuel vapor lines before welding it in, but I was getting tired and was afraid I'd F it up. So, I quit for the day and will start fresh tomorrow.

And here's a lazuli bunting that was at the feeder the other day.

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Posted by: KELTY360 May 13 2018, 08:48 AM

Since this thread features critters in the wild, here’s Brent with his malamute eying the Westy delivery van. Those doors hardly took up any space! Had a great time checking out Brent’s massive projects and discussing all things under the sun.

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Posted by: KELTY360 May 13 2018, 08:52 AM

I’m currently posting laying in bed in my campsite at the foot of Devils Tower in Wyoming. Life is good. Attached Image

Posted by: Dion May 13 2018, 08:56 AM

Top notch work Brent! welder.gif
Thanks for posting the pics Marc, enjoy Devils Tower.

Posted by: euro911 May 13 2018, 11:29 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 13 2018, 07:48 AM) *
Since this thread features critters in the wild, here’s Brent with his malamute eying the Westy delivery van. Those doors hardly took up any space! Had a great time checking out Brent’s massive projects and discussing all things under the sun.

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I spy with my little eye: a fuel tank filler location behind the sliding door. Synchro?

Posted by: bbrock May 13 2018, 11:43 AM

QUOTE(euro911 @ May 13 2018, 11:29 AM) *

I spy with my little eye: a fuel tank filler location behind the sliding door. Synchro?


I can even answer that one. Yes! That Westy is a sweet ride.

I finished up yesterday's project this morning. Just to make sure everything is in the right place, I put in the plumbing and clamped up the rocker cover before tacking the bracket in. It was a PITA, but everything seems to work. A shout out to BPic for quickly posting a pic for me yesterday so I could fill in the blanks on my rusty bracket. I think I got it right.

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The rest was easy enough.

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Nice to have that chore out of the way. Now I can load up my spool of Easy Grind wire and patch some body panels. welder.gif

Posted by: euro911 May 13 2018, 12:11 PM

I thought about buying a Synchro, but opted for a standard Westy because I already have two Toyota 4x4s. My friend, Randy, called me Friday - 'Eileen's new 2.1L is done and she's ready to come home. I'll be picking her up when I get back from AZ end of June driving.gif

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Posted by: bbrock May 13 2018, 12:16 PM

Nice! drooley.gif I had a '74 bus that we really enjoyed and have great memories of, but I got tired blowing up engines. I always wanted a Westy. Marc has a Subie/6 in his. Maybe he'll say more when he's off the road.

Marc, if you need a place to park on the way home, you know where to find me.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 13 2018, 05:52 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 13 2018, 11:16 AM) *

Nice! drooley.gif I had a '74 bus that we really enjoyed and have great memories of, but I got tired blowing up engines. I always wanted a Westy. Marc has a Subie/6 in his. Maybe he'll say more when he's off the road.

Marc, if you need a place to park on the way home, you know where to find me.

Nice Westy Mark. Two or four wheel drive they’re like nothing else on the road. With all the windows, I call mine a rolling sun porch.

Now, enough Westy love. mad.gif Get back to work on your 914, Brent. BTW I may take you up on that driveway space. Still haven’t figured out my next stop.

Posted by: bbrock May 13 2018, 09:07 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 13 2018, 05:52 PM) *

Now, enough Westy love. mad.gif Get back to work on your 914, Brent. BTW I may take you up on that driveway space. Still haven’t figured out my next stop.


Stop by. Two moose were hanging out about 20 feet from the house an hour ago.

So here's the rest of the progress for the day... or should I say, some progress and some tail chasing. I spent a fair amount of time stripping more undercoat and seam sealer to clean things up to repair that rust hole near the antenna mount.

I cut out the cancer and treated the hole with phosphoric acid.

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and the patch was welded, ground, and blended. Not too bad.

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Then I went back to that channel in the corner near the antenna to grind down the final welds. I noticed a couple pinholes and blew out the bottom trying to fix them. Then I got pissed off and ripped out that section and cut a patch. I wasn't really happy with that repair anyway. The hole I zapped shut was really too big and the patch was brittle. I didn't take pics because it was just a repeat of the other side, only a much smaller piece. Here's the result with a temporary dusting of primer on it and that patch I did earlier.

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The next patch is going to be interesting. Stay tuned. bye1.gif

Posted by: bbrock May 16 2018, 10:21 PM

No progress to report but planning the next task and am would welcome advice so I hope I can explain it well enough. That next task is patching rust at the bottom rear of the front fender.

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The old door has a matching patch of rot, plus some brazing from the PO's body work.

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From the get-go of this project, that area had a narrow gap that I assumed (and still hope) is caused by the corrosion pushing the body lines together. The plan is to adjust the gaps as part of the rust repair so the first step was to fit the replacement door and see where things fit. After a lot of fiddling, I got the hinges adjusted for the best fit I could get. The front fender and door line up pretty well with all the surfaces matching along the same straight plane. The rear quarter and door look good at the top but I discovered a problem that the puffiness of the rot in the front of the door and fender was masking. The rear quarter meets the lower part of the door with about a 2 mm offset in the planes.

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Believe it or not, I'm not too worried about that and here's why.

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I bullocksed the repair on the bottom of that quarter and it has to be redone. The problem was that I cut and welded the patch along that bottom bend and didn't think about how welding would shrink the gap. The upshot is that the body line along the bottom is shit and has to be cut out and redone. This time, I have a couple of spare doors that happen to have the exact profile I need so I'm going to cannibalize skin off the old door to create a new patch. While I"m doing that, Ill be able to fix the f'd up alignment with the door.

The bigger question is about gaps at the front of the door. Here are pics with gap measurements in millimeters.

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As near as I can tell, it must be normal for the gap to widen (almost 1 mm) at the curve between the top of the door and side because I can't think of what problem would cause that. I'm tempted to weld a little material along the edge to even out that gap. I don't really have a plan for the gap at the bottom of the hinge post but hoping one emerges after I cut it open for the rust repair.

Posted by: bbrock May 17 2018, 09:44 AM

I did a bit of cutting this morning and more measuring to figure out this gap thing. This is the bottom of the A-pillar with the rotted fender skin removed. I confirmed that the gap remains a steady 4mm down to where the rust begins and then tapers to about 2mm at the very bottom. I'm feeling like somehow the corrosion swelled the metal or allowed it to move to close that gap, or maybe the gap was always narrow there. Either way, it should be easy to correct.

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I'm stilled a bit confused by the wide gap at the top of the door. I need to play with those hinge adjustments more to see if there that can help. I did think through possibilities of bent or shrunk frame members, but my chassis measurements are spot on and because the doors bolt to the A-pillar, that gap should remain constant even if the pillar moved. I also need to get both sides stripped to bare metal to make sure I'm aligning the actual panels and not body filler.

Posted by: bbrock May 21 2018, 10:27 PM

Heading home from Iowa in the morning with a nice 914 trunk lid strapped to the roof. I had a very generous offer from rhodyguy for another lid that needed some minor repair but opted for this one because I feel like I've patched enough holes and not confident in my skills to handle a trunk lid patch.

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Posted by: mb911 May 22 2018, 09:13 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 16 2018, 08:21 PM) *

No progress to report but planning the next task and am would welcome advice so I hope I can explain it well enough. That next task is patching rust at the bottom rear of the front fender.

Attached Image

The old door has a matching patch of rot, plus some brazing from the PO's body work.

Attached Image

From the get-go of this project, that area had a narrow gap that I assumed (and still hope) is caused by the corrosion pushing the body lines together. The plan is to adjust the gaps as part of the rust repair so the first step was to fit the replacement door and see where things fit. After a lot of fiddling, I got the hinges adjusted for the best fit I could get. The front fender and door line up pretty well with all the surfaces matching along the same straight plane. The rear quarter and door look good at the top but I discovered a problem that the puffiness of the rot in the front of the door and fender was masking. The rear quarter meets the lower part of the door with about a 2 mm offset in the planes.

Attached Image

Believe it or not, I'm not too worried about that and here's why.

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I bullocksed the repair on the bottom of that quarter and it has to be redone. The problem was that I cut and welded the patch along that bottom bend and didn't think about how welding would shrink the gap. The upshot is that the body line along the bottom is shit and has to be cut out and redone. This time, I have a couple of spare doors that happen to have the exact profile I need so I'm going to cannibalize skin off the old door to create a new patch. While I"m doing that, Ill be able to fix the f'd up alignment with the door.

The bigger question is about gaps at the front of the door. Here are pics with gap measurements in millimeters.

Attached Image Attached Image

As near as I can tell, it must be normal for the gap to widen (almost 1 mm) at the curve between the top of the door and side because I can't think of what problem would cause that. I'm tempted to weld a little material along the edge to even out that gap. I don't really have a plan for the gap at the bottom of the hinge post but hoping one emerges after I cut it open for the rust repair.



Yes I believe it is fairly normal. I will be welding in the gaps on mine to make it cleaner.

Posted by: bbrock May 22 2018, 09:19 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ May 22 2018, 09:13 AM) *


Yes I believe it is fairly normal. I will be welding in the gaps on mine to make it cleaner.


Good to know. I made some adjustments that got the top area tighter and will have one more adjustment to try. I'll still need to do some welding but maybe not as much.

Posted by: bbrock May 26 2018, 10:31 PM

Spent time during the week working on the driver's door gaps some more. I ended up grinding out the holes for the hinge bolts a little larger to allow more range of adjustment for the doors.

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After that, I was able to better align the door with the fender and got most of the gap down to about 4.3mm. I'll still have to weld a bit to regap some, but I'm much closer to the end goal now.

I had other projects to work on today so didn't get to the car until about 4 pm this afternoon. I made a start on tackling this mess.

IPB Image

This required a lot of dental work to cut the rotted fender skin where it crimps around a flange on the A-pillar, and cutting out the rusted portion of that flange. After cutting everything out, it got a good treatment with the KleanStrip version of Ospho. Here it is ready to rebuild the inner structure that the skin crimps over.

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Amazing how long it took to make this pathetic looking scrap of metal to repair the structure.

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It didn't take long to weld the little scrap in and grind it down. This will all get buried under the skin and seam sealer, but I still took the time to restore the original profile and look.

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Tomorrow I'll see if I can pull off repairing the skin. Wish me luck! blink.gif

Posted by: tygaboy May 27 2018, 07:13 AM

Luck... ha and peshaw!

I'm sending you good vibrations for:
- clean and solid parent metal cheer.gif
- perfect welder settings welder.gif
- not welding the wire to the tip (particularly when working in those hard to reach areas) smilie_pokal.gif
- patch pieces that turn out nicely on the first attempt smash.gif
- no weld spatter sparks ending up in your ear pray.gif

Now get back out there! And keep up the great work!

(and I promise, that rear window will get packed and shipped at some point!)

Posted by: bbrock May 27 2018, 11:17 PM

Good, Good, Good! Good Vibrations! piratenanner.gif

I don't know what kind of Mojo you were sending me Chris, but I'll take some more please beerchug.gif What a rewarding day!

I started the day with a lot of trepidation because I knew I was in above my head with the task ahead. First up was fitting up the door again to see what adjustments were needed on that inner structure I did yesterday. As expected, there was some, but not bad, just a little bulge below the bottom body line.

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To fix it, I just cut across the bottom crease line.

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Then tapped the bulge up into the right line. Amazing how ony 1mm of extra material can throw things out of whack.

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Then trim off the access and glue it up with a little high temperature metal adhesive.

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A little grinding and final adjustment, and Bob's your uncle. It still looks a little out of line in this pic, but it isn't.

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Now for the fun stuff. First, I made a pattern for the skin patch using tracing paper. I started by tracing the existing gap lines, the bottom crease line, and outline of the cutout for the patch. Then I shifted the pattern over so the partial fender side gap line was lined up with the door gap side. That let me trace the front edge of the patch so it would follow the door contour.

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I retraced the lines with black marker. Solid for cut lines and dashed for bend lines. Here it is repositioned in correct alignment.

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I cut the patch piece out of the original door since it already has the right contour, including the bends at the bottom.

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Now for a couple hours making the patch.

Posted by: bbrock May 27 2018, 11:24 PM

I used the pattern to cut it out and left 12mm on the door side to bend over a 10mm flange that crimps over that inner structure flange repaired yesterday. There is a subtle curve on that edge so the flange had to be bent a little at a time, then hammered over onto itself, the pried open enough so it could slip tightly over the structure flange. Tedious work just to get the that point,

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Then repeatedly fitting it on, grinding a little off the back edge, refitting, more grinding, again and again to sneak up on the perfect fit. The crimp fit is so tight there is no need for clamps.

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A new scar that needs to heal.

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And here's the end result. Not too shabby! aktion035.gif

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There is still a bit of house keeping to do behind the door, but I want to finish the rear quarter repairs before pulling the door off again. I have an idea for making those adjustments that will be easier than a full repatch. That's on the agenda for tomorrow.

Posted by: falcor75 May 27 2018, 11:55 PM

Great work, I'm always impressed with the patience of a good repair piece. Is it just me or could you run your welder with less wire feed to reduce the height of the spotwelds and spend less time on grinding? You dont want balls of metal ontop of the weld, they should float out a bit more.

Posted by: bbrock May 28 2018, 12:07 AM

QUOTE(falcor75 @ May 27 2018, 11:55 PM) *

Great work, I'm always impressed with the patience of a good repair piece. Is it just me or could you run your welder with less wire feed to reduce the height of the spotwelds and spend less time on grinding? You dont want balls of metal ontop of the weld, they should float out a bit more.


Yeah, I was having fits with the settings today. I dialed back the feed and it helped some but I'm a little worried I have a diode out again as the welder just seems weak. I'm going to mess with it tomorrow and see if I can sort it out. I have easy grind spooled up for this job so at least grinding didn't take long.

Posted by: tygaboy May 28 2018, 06:40 AM

Brent - Excellent! You're right to be pleased with that repair! Super-duper awesomeness, for sure. smilie_pokal.gif

Congrats and more of the same. Can't wait to see the next steps.

And here come some more focused vibes re: welder settings:

welder.gif welder.gif welder.gif

Posted by: mb911 May 28 2018, 07:30 AM

Looking good. Ironically i didn't need to repair that area on mine but the flares must have helped..

Posted by: bbrock May 28 2018, 09:20 AM

@#$K!!!
Well, I just ran some test welds and I'm pretty sure the diodes on the welder are burned out again. headbang.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif

I tested butt welding some scraps of 20 gauge and the chart settings of Voltage = 1 and Wire Speed = 6 just sputter and put a little ball on top of the gap. The only acceptable (but not great) weld I could get was cranking both the voltage and wire speed full up. That should have blown holes through the metal like a canon.

I'm going to order a new set of diodes and capacitors but muddle through the repairs today with what I have.

I understand having to replace diodes on a 30 year old welder, but this last set is less than a year old although probably saw as much welding as the old set. But still, they shouldn't be burning out like this. confused24.gif Very frustrating! blowup.gif

Posted by: mb911 May 28 2018, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 28 2018, 07:20 AM) *

@#$K!!!
Well, I just ran some test welds and I'm pretty sure the diodes on the welder are burned out again. headbang.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif

I tested butt welding some scraps of 20 gauge and the chart settings of Voltage = 1 and Wire Speed = 6 just sputter and put a little ball on top of the gap. The only acceptable (but not great) weld I could get was cranking both the voltage and wire speed full up. That should have blown holes through the metal like a canon.

I'm going to order a new set of diodes and capacitors but muddle through the repairs today with what I have.

I understand having to replace diodes on a 30 year old welder, but this last set is less than a year old although probably saw as much welding as the old set. But still, they shouldn't be burning out like this. confused24.gif Very frustrating! blowup.gif



I have never had a set burn out.. You have a 125 handler?

Posted by: KELTY360 May 28 2018, 10:50 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ May 27 2018, 10:24 PM) *

I used the pattern to cut it out and left 12mm on the door side to bend over a 10mm flange that crimps over that inner structure flange repaired yesterday. There is a subtle curve on that edge so the flange had to be bent a little at a time, then hammered over onto itself, the pried open enough so it could slip tightly over the structure flange. Tedious work just to get the that point,

Attached Image Attached Image

Then repeatedly fitting it on, grinding a little off the back edge, refitting, more grinding, again and again to sneak up on the perfect fit. The crimp fit is so tight there is no need for clamps.

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A new scar that needs to heal.

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And here's the end result. Not too shabby! aktion035.gif

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There is still a bit of house keeping to do behind the door, but I want to finish the rear quarter repairs before pulling the door off again. I have an idea for making those adjustments that will be easier than a full repatch. That's on the agenda for tomorrow.


Look at that! smilie_pokal.gif I saw that nasty section a couple of weeks ago and thought you really had your hands full. Great solution and execution. The other side will be a piece of cake.

Posted by: Dion May 28 2018, 11:58 AM

Sorry to hear of the welder diode issues but
that repair patch job looks fantastic.
Really nice Brent! Good homework on your part.
I’m getting quite jealous. :-)

Posted by: bbrock May 28 2018, 12:57 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ May 28 2018, 10:50 AM) *

Look at that! smilie_pokal.gif I saw that nasty section a couple of weeks ago and thought you really had your hands full. Great solution and execution. The other side will be a piece of cake.


Thanks Dion and Marc! I remember the look on your face Marc when you looked at that and said, "How are you going to handle that?" I hope the other side will be a piece of cake but the rust is more extensive than this one. The skin patch should be about the same, but the structure repair will be more complicated.

I made some more progress this morning. I wanted to address the alignment of the drivers quarter panel before flipping the car around in the shop to tackle the front fender repair on the other side. The problem being that the quarter stuck out almost 1/4" from the door alignment.

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My original idea was to cut a patch out of the old door to replace that corner and address the bottom body line F-up at the same time. I had two problems with that plan. One is that it would add another long butt weld across that panel that is Frankenstein enough as it is, and said butt weld would not be possible with the welder in its current crippled state. The second problem is with yesterday's patch fresh in my head, I knew how hard it would be to bend the weld flange with the curve needed to match the door gap, and would probably require building a hammer form.

I decided to try something different and pretended I was a plastic surgeon for the day. The new approach is to just slice the weld flanges of the quarter and lock post open to give the panel a "face lift" to pull it into alignment.

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While I had the Dremel out, I also trimmed the weld flange on the RD sail panel piece to match the original width.

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It worked pretty well, my main concern was that the tapered flange width would look goofy, but I don't really think it is noticeable. If it starts bugging me, I have a couple ideas for addressing it. This pic makes the repair look way more ugly than it is. It seems like unless you primer a repair, the camera makes it look a lot better or worse than it actually is. Anyway, the flange looks good and just needs some minor cosmetic cleanup even if you can't tell in this pic.

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And the new alignment looks good cheer.gif

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Up next is to use a similar approach to fix the bottom body line that I FUBARed when I patched the rust down there.

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Posted by: bbrock May 28 2018, 08:50 PM

Well that didn't work

After lunch, I slit open the bend at the bottom of the driver's quarter panel, adjusted the line, and started to weld it back up.

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But I had blocked out just how sketchy that part of the panel was to begin with but was quickly reminded as melted lead started dripping down. This is the panel that I had patched rust on the bottom (badly), and then fiddle farted with body solder to smoot and strengthen pitting on the inside from too much road salt. I quickly realized this was not going to be acceptable. So, i spent the rest of the afternoon with shrinking disc, hammer, and dolly to straighten the panel in prep for cutting and patching. The closer I got to that corner, the worse shape the panel was in. Cutting that out will be an improvement in many ways. Still a little more panel beating to do, but its really close. Here the outline of about where I'll cut.

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Posted by: Lucky9146 May 28 2018, 09:42 PM

Great to watch and see the problem solving and welding. Looking good!
It's nice to see progress beerchug.gif
driving.gif white914.jpg

Posted by: bbrock May 28 2018, 09:58 PM

QUOTE(Lucky9146 @ May 28 2018, 09:42 PM) *

Great to watch and see the problem solving and welding. Looking good!
It's nice to see progress beerchug.gif
driving.gif white914.jpg


Thanks, and right back at you. I love your GT project but those seats... well that's a WHOLE other level! drooley.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jun 17 2018, 10:24 PM

Overdue for an update. I've had a few distractions from the project. Two weeks ago I made a quick trip to Petaluma to visit friends. Turns out my friend lives only a couple miles from Tygaboy so I managed to pay Chris a visit and got to meet the infamous Martin. I really enjoyed visiting with Chris and seeing his amazing project. That hight tech jigsaw puzzle makes a lot of sense when you see it in person. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to attend the fabulous fab workshop at Chris' place the following day. Instead, I was out on Point Reyes with a bunch of other biologist nerds doing biologist nerd things. Here's my friend Tim showing off an aquatic garter snake.

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When I got home, I had a lot of other chores to attending to that kept me away from the car and enjoying the nice Montana weather.

This Poor Frankenpanel

Finally, I was able to get back to the Porsche around mid-day last Sunday. Some days you go to the shop and everything just seems to click. Last Sunday was not that day. I dug into repairing the lower portion of the left rear quarter. First I made a template tracing the rear door edge so I could match the contour for a perfect match with the patch.

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Cut the patch from the old door and clamped it in. Looks pretty good.

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Welded it in and that's when things started going sour. It looks pretty good here.

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But the bend at the lock post wasn't as crisp as the original and I had pretty good luck sharpening the RD panels up with a body hammer. So I tried that on the bottome and totally F@##d up the gap. headbang.gif I think I can fix it without cutting but it will require a long, thick piece of bar stock that I didn't have on hand so will have to wait. The other problem is that I started getting nasty blowout on the vertical section of butt seam.

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When I cut that opening, the metal looked nice and solid all around the edge, but after the blowout, I peaked around back to find lead spatter out around pitted metal. Just a reminder, this was the panel I farted around with body solder to fill, smooth, and strengthen some moderately pitted areas. The damn stuff sure works because when I inspected to size the patch, it looked like clean, smooth, shiny sheet metal back there. That is - until the welder hit it. headbang.gif That meant yet another patch had to go in to this poor quilt of a panel. I was really starting to envy those who can just RR the whole quarter with NOS.

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Posted by: bbrock Jun 17 2018, 10:25 PM

Yesterday I put the patch in and it fit pretty well except the edges were out of alignment by a couple millimeters in a couple spots.

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I could have easily clamped the patch in to match, but I could feel a couple of bulges in the quarter so I pulled out the good 'ol shrinking disc.

After a few passes with the disc, the patch aligned perfectly. There was still a bulge above the first patch that wouldn't shrink out, so I had to make a relief cut in the seam for the first patch.

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Then the shrinking disc was able to to do it's magic before the switch on my grinder suddenly quit. headbang.gif But today I was able to finish the patch work with a lot of tweaking and cussing. It's still a work in progress as that panel needs a lot of work to straighten it out. I'm pretty sure it will need a bit of bondo, but I'll get it as close to straight as I possibly can.

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Posted by: bbrock Jun 17 2018, 10:42 PM

Re-hinged

Finally today, I needed a break from tedious panel repair and decided to weld in the trunk hing pivots now that I have a trunk lid to align. First I had to find where I put the dang pivots. That took about 45 minutes. Then aligning the lid just so to get the pivots in the right place. I hit them with 3 plug welds on each side plus 5 tack welds on the edges just to be sure. This picture makes those welds look pretty crappy even though they look nice in life. I'll still grind them down a bit before painting though.

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My new old trunk lid needs just a little adjustment. There is a low spot along the left edge and just a more subtle one near the hinge on the right. I'm guessing this was caused by reefing the lid down on my roof rack with ratchet straps for the ride home from Iowa. It should be easy to gently persuade the lid back to the right curve and I'd rather have this than having it fly off the roof in transport.

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The lid actually goes up and down like it is supposed to. That's nice. smile.gif

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Posted by: Dion Jun 18 2018, 05:27 AM

Perseverance! Nice one Brent. You’ve certainly had some challenges.
Looking great. Those trunk hinges can be tedious.
It’s coming along nicely. Bang on!

Posted by: tygaboy Jun 18 2018, 07:22 AM

QUOTE(Dion @ Jun 18 2018, 04:27 AM) *

Perseverance! Nice one Brent. You’ve certainly had some challenges.
Looking great. Those trunk hinges can be tedious.
It’s coming along nicely. Bang on!

agree.gif
What Dion said.

Brent, it was great meeting you and I hope to make it to your place at some point.
Good to see you back at it. Keep on keepin' on!

Posted by: bbrock Jun 18 2018, 04:17 PM

Thanks guys. It may be more stubbornness than perseverance but I appreciate the encouragement. Whatever challenges I have faced can be chaulked up to two things: I'm a CSOB on a budget so am trying to salvage bits that most people would just remove and replace; and I'm punching way above my weight class with respect to the skills this project demands. I knew that going in and it is what I enjoy about it.

I also forgot to mention that I started last Sunday by replacing the diodes (and both capacitors) on my welder for a second time. It is a total PITA job that set me in a foul mood before diving into that rear quarter bottom. No doubt that contributed to stupid mistakes. beer3.gif

Made a little progress today. First I flipped the car around in the shop which isn't easy, but gives me better access to the passenger side. Time to dive into this mess.

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Nasty rot at the bottom of the door and fender. Somebody has been in there before to braze in patches (there was one on the door too but it is gone now). Let's see what I can do with that door rot first.

Well that was easy! Thanks to Marc O. av-943.gif A couple bolts and even the gaps and alignment look good. cheer.gif

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Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 18 2018, 04:30 PM

You have got some serious courage Brent. popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: bbrock Jun 26 2018, 09:10 PM

Metal Origami
Had some distractions be finished up the fender patch this evening. It was largely just a repeat of what I did on the other side so I'll try not to repeat, but the lower hinge post repair was more extensive so I'll give a little detail how I approached it.

That little piece is quite a complicated affair. there is a flat area that fills the space between the fender wall and inner hinge post with a flange that spot welds to the chassis inside the fender, then there is a little bead around the perimeter that makes a little step out to the outer flange where the fender skin crimps on. The step is shallow in depth at the top but tapers to deeper at the bottom, and the whole affair curves around at the bottom to follow the fender contour. That area is not visible with the doors on, even when they are open, so I wasn't concerned with getting an absolutely exact match. I just wanted to match the structural function but get as close to the original as possible. It took some time to figure out how to tackle this with my caveman set of tools. It started with making a cardboard template of the inner flat area.

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The template was transferred to a metal blank and then the bend line for the spot weld flange was marked and the piece was trimmed leaving plenty of extra metal for the step bead and crimp flange.

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Then the line for the step bead was marked. It looks goofy here but will make sense later.

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Next, I dusted off the old hammer form used for fabbing the inner long bottoms and banged out the step.

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Then into the brake to form the outer wall with step bead and flange.

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Finally, the bottom was rolled to form the piece. After bending the spot weld flange in the vice, it was ready for trimming.

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The tricky part was removing the original material but leaving enough of an outline to serve as a kind of wire frame for final fitting and trimming.

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Then I could clamp the patch in place and use the frame to mark trim lines.

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Final trim was done but grinding away the original door skin that remained on the wire frame with the patch clamped in place. That brought the edges of the new crimp flange exactly to the depth of the originals.

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too be continued...


Posted by: bbrock Jun 26 2018, 09:16 PM

The hinge post patch clamped in place and ready to weld.

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Welded in and ground off. With just a touch of filler, you will be hard pressed to notice it was patched even with the door off.

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Patching the skin was just like the other side, so I won't bore by repeating those details. Next time I take the doors off, I'll tune the flanges on both sides a little and finish off the inner crimp flanges. Just a spot of filler and that patch will completely disappear.

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Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 26 2018, 10:28 PM

Nice work, that looks to be pretty tricky to fabricate and not much room to weld.

Posted by: dr.tim Jun 27 2018, 06:52 AM

Keep going!

Posted by: cary Jun 27 2018, 07:19 AM

Nice work ...........
I hope to get back to welding next month.

Posted by: Dion Jun 27 2018, 07:45 AM

Nice one Brent.

Posted by: bbrock Jun 28 2018, 02:22 PM

Just a quick one

I had to leave this gap in the lower apron early in the project when I patched the tail section. At the time, even a simple patch like this was intimidating so thought it best to get some more welding and fabbing practice before coming back to it.

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Filled the hole.

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Posted by: aggiezig Jun 28 2018, 02:49 PM

Your car and your fabrication skills have come such a long way. Looking great, Brent!

Posted by: bbrock Jul 2 2018, 10:46 PM

Bumper Bracket from Hell (Part 1)

I've spent the last week tackling that nasty tinworm nest I found back in May under the headlight bucket and behind the right bumper bracket. It sure looks innocent from this side but I was NOT looking forward to this job.

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I got a salvaged bumper bracket from Garold and Plan A was to just cut wide around the replacement bracket and butt weld the whole patch in as a unit. Unfortunately, the replacement is from the other side of the car so that won't work.

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Plan B is to liberate the bracket from the salvage part, then cut a patch from the inner fender wall that can be flipped over to fit the right side. The salvage patch includes a long indent that would be tough to fabricate and I'd never get it to match as perfectly. I went too deep cutting those spot welds so will have to do some repair on that patch. Cutting this piece apart is about as fun as cutting out the rear suspension console and engine mount.

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Now I had to cut the bumper bracket out of my car, but first, I had to rig an alternative support since the thing I was going to remove was holding up one quarter of the chassis on the rottiserie. The fog light uses an surprisingly large M10 bolt and looked like a good candidate. So I bent a piece of bar stock to bolt in that location, and welded the other end to the rotisserie bar.

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Removing the bracket takes several hours of grinding and a copious application of F-bombs working in cramped quarters. The nice thing about working in this area is about every 10 minutes, you ram your back into the sharp corner of the rocker cover flange in the wheel well behind you. Lot's of breaks were required but I finally ground the entire bracket into fine shavings to reveal what all the fuss is about.

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Then the long process of trimming the patch piece and cutting an opening to plug it into. This took a lot of switching back and forth between tools and getting creative with attachments. In the middle of this, my trustly $14 HF mini angle grinder took a dump so I had to make an unplanned run into town. Knowing that the HF quality control isn't great and not wanting to risk getting home to discover my replacement grinder was a dud like the first one I bought, I picked up a Husky brand at the Home Despot. Online reviews looked good and I will say it is a nice step up from the HF unit, and quality is much nicer than the POS Kobalt die grinder I bought at Lowes. Anyway, eventually I had a hole worthy of a patch.

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And a patch to plug the hole.

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There is still a lot of work to do but this gives a pretty good idea of where things are heading. Stay tuned...

Posted by: defianty Jul 3 2018, 04:05 AM

Keep it up Brent, you're doing a sterling job there!

Posted by: flyer86d Jul 3 2018, 05:25 AM

I have been doing rust repairs on my cars since the mid 1970s. I have to admit that it is a learning process. Some of my first attempts were amateurish at best when I replaced the first set of jack points on our 71. I’ve done rockers, suspension pickups, and hell holes since. Also rear subrails and torque boxes on early Mustangs and floorpan repairs. I rebuilt the 1929 Ford Roadster body that became my period Rod. I picked up pointers and techniques along the way but seeing your work, as well as Kent’s and Jeff Hail’s has really taught me a lot. The patient fabrication and weld finishing really cuts down on the finish bodywork and filling. Great work and I thank you all.

Charlie

Posted by: bbrock Jul 3 2018, 10:22 AM

QUOTE(flyer86d @ Jul 3 2018, 05:25 AM) *

I have been doing rust repairs on my cars since the mid 1970s. I have to admit that it is a learning process. Some of my first attempts were amateurish at best when I replaced the first set of jack points on our 71. I’ve done rockers, suspension pickups, and hell holes since. Also rear subrails and torque boxes on early Mustangs and floorpan repairs. I rebuilt the 1929 Ford Roadster body that became my period Rod. I picked up pointers and techniques along the way but seeing your work, as well as Kent’s and Jeff Hail’s has really taught me a lot. The patient fabrication and weld finishing really cuts down on the finish bodywork and filling. Great work and I thank you all.

Charlie


Charlie, thanks for your compliments. I'm not close to the same league as Jeff and Kent, and to be mentioned with them is truly humbling. The first rocker repair on a 914 I did was in the 80s and resulted in a door that had to be slammed a little thanks to me not understanding how heat shrinks metal. Even on this project, when I go back to the repairs I made in the beginning, they make me cringe a little because they are going to require a lot more cleanup than they would if I knew what I was doing, but I am determined to get them in shape before paint goes on.

Now the guy I "complain" about the most - which means I take inspiration from is Stephen (defianty). If you believe his story (and I still suspect he may be a ringer), he's just a guy like us figuring out this stuff as we go. Yet, the quality he produces is up there with the seasoned pros. Kind of annoying. laugh.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 4 2018, 08:08 PM

Bumper Bracket from Hell (Part 2)

Well Happy 4th everyone. I spent the day back on task. Yesterday I prepped my patch by filling all the rings left by going to deep with the rotabroach. The piece is part of the crush zone behind the front bumper so I wanted to make sure it retained its original strength. Right or wrong, I filled the holes with Easy Grind wire because that stuff seems a little more ductile and seems to match the characteristics of the original metal a little better. I switched back to regular .023 wire for actually welding the patch in. Here it is welded in place. Not too bad considering what a PITA the access to that area is.

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And here it is after grinding. I didn't go too crazy since nearly the entire thing gets covered by the bracket.

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Next was the bracket itself. Take a look at the shit show left after welding! What a PITA that was! bootyshake.gif It is totally blind welding with little room to manipulate the nozzle. Just line the wire up with the center of a plug weld which completely blocks hour view, the pull the trigger and wiggle the nozzle around the best you can. Pull away and realign with the areas you missed, and go blindly at it again. Oh, and half the time you are welding with the nozzle twisted in weird positions. For several welds, I had to squeeze the trigger with the heel of my hand. Awkward. But the thing is stuck for sure and I pity the poor bastard who has to take it off again.

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Then after a lot of grinding, it isn't too bad. It was tempting to keep working on it to make it more presentable, but this bracket is going to be covered with bed liner and it just wasn't worth the cost of expensive grinding consumables to keep going.

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This is really the money shot anyway since it's the most visible part of the patch.

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And here's a shot under the headlight bucket where there used to be a nasty rust hole. I'll try to sneak in there and clean that up a bit later, but once the trunk reinforcement is back in, this area will be hidden in the nether regions.

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Wait a minute... blink.gif was that?... Why yes. Yes it was. That was the last major rust patch on this car! There are some small dinky things to do, but I just completed the last of the curse-worthy patches. I think this calls for a celebratory dance:


Posted by: Dion Jul 4 2018, 08:31 PM

beerchug.gif pray.gif top work Brent!
Always a pleasure seeing your progress.
I’ve been neglecting mine. Distracted by my sons 944.
Awesome work mate. Man you’ve accomplished a lot.
Looking forward to your next endeavor.
Cheers mate!

Posted by: bbrock Jul 4 2018, 09:37 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Jul 4 2018, 08:31 PM) *

beerchug.gif pray.gif top work Brent!
Always a pleasure seeing your progress.
I’ve been neglecting mine. Distracted by my sons 944.
Awesome work mate. Man you’ve accomplished a lot.
Looking forward to your next endeavor.
Cheers mate!


What is it with you guys getting hijacked by your son's 944s. Is there some special club I haven't heard about? poke.gif

Posted by: Dion Jul 5 2018, 04:41 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jul 4 2018, 07:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Dion @ Jul 4 2018, 08:31 PM) *

beerchug.gif pray.gif top work Brent!
Always a pleasure seeing your progress.
I’ve been neglecting mine. Distracted by my sons 944.
Awesome work mate. Man you’ve accomplished a lot.
Looking forward to your next endeavor.
Cheers mate!


What is it with you guys getting hijacked by your son's 944s. Is there some special club I haven't heard about? poke.gif

lol-2.gif In my defense it’s a case of having a driving.gif “running” sports-car to “test drive” it’s a moment of weakness. I’ll be on task soon.
Seriously though nice progress on yours. aktion035.gif


Posted by: mb911 Jul 5 2018, 05:01 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jul 4 2018, 07:37 PM) *

QUOTE(Dion @ Jul 4 2018, 08:31 PM) *

beerchug.gif pray.gif top work Brent!
Always a pleasure seeing your progress.
I’ve been neglecting mine. Distracted by my sons 944.
Awesome work mate. Man you’ve accomplished a lot.
Looking forward to your next endeavor.
Cheers mate!


What is it with you guys getting hijacked by your son's 944s. Is there some special club I haven't heard about? poke.gif



Yup it's club you want to join? biggrin.gif looks great.. You have caught up to me . I have to make and upper cowl hood seal channel repair and plug the trunk push button hole for the GT look.. Then final body work..

Great work again.

Posted by: bbrock Jul 5 2018, 07:54 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jul 5 2018, 05:01 AM) *


Yup it's club you want to join? biggrin.gif looks great.. You have caught up to me . I have to make and upper cowl hood seal channel repair and plug the trunk push button hole for the GT look.. Then final body work..

Great work again.


We have no kids so can't qualify for the club, but I was tempted to make an offer on a 944 that sat in a field 3 miles down the road a number of years ago.

I left a lot of grinding and metal finishing to do as parts were going on, so you may still be a little ahead, but I'm closing the gap. Going into the tent for final complete media blasting today, then lots more grinding, fixing pinholes, and prepping for primer.

I think this project may send me to therapy. I had a dream last night where I looked at the car and had not noticed that the left front fender was practically falling off the car from rot. Luckily, I woke up from that nightmare. lol-2.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 5 2018, 09:02 PM

Let's Get Naked!

Spent quite a bit of time reconfiguring to roll the chassis out into the tent so I could begin the long process of blasting the remaining paint and surface rust off. After a very cold and rainy spring (we actually had frost on our deck yesterday), as soon as I rolled the car into the tent, the sun popped out and started blazing down with a forecast for record breaking temps the next few weeks. Perfect timing for for working in an enclosed tent wearing a hood doing an already dirty and miserable job. mad.gif

I wound up with just enough time to blast the bottom of the frunk clean. Starting to get excited about the idea of having a fully stripped chassis.

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Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 6 2018, 08:20 AM

Nice solution on supporting that corner for the bracket and bucket repair. Bet you're glad that's in the rear view mirror. Are you concerned it's going to get a little boring without all the cutting, welding, shaping, pounding and pondering you've had to do to get to this point?

sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif idea.gif biggrin.gif

Congrats!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 6 2018, 08:33 AM

Great work and blasting that chassis clean is the best way to find all of the damage and rust needing correcting. beer.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 6 2018, 10:38 AM

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 6 2018, 08:33 AM) *

Great work and blasting that chassis clean is the best way to find all of the damage and rust needing correcting. beer.gif


A prophetic statement! I sneaked out for a round of blasting this morning while the weather was cool. Found this nasty surprise on the front left fender.

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Similar to the right quarter, it looks like they did a good job of bringing the metal back to very close to straight, and then drilled and slathered on way more Bondo than necessary. Over 3/16" in this case. I was worried the fender would be trashed but the rust is confined around the drill holes and wart. The wart was going to disappear anyway so mostly this adds the job of welding those holes up and trying to straighten the panel properly.

Boring Marc? I don't think so. This car is still throwing enough curveballs to keep things interesting. And the closer I get to paint, the more terrified I get. yikes.gif

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone! beerchug.gif

Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 6 2018, 01:30 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Jul 6 2018, 09:38 AM) *

QUOTE(Cairo94507 @ Jul 6 2018, 08:33 AM) *

Great work and blasting that chassis clean is the best way to find all of the damage and rust needing correcting. beer.gif


A prophetic statement! I sneaked out for a round of blasting this morning while the weather was cool. Found this nasty surprise on the front left fender.

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Similar to the right quarter, it looks like they did a good job of bringing the metal back to very close to straight, and then drilled and slathered on way more Bondo than necessary. Over 3/16" in this case. I was worried the fender would be trashed but the rust is confined around the drill holes and wart. The wart was going to disappear anyway so mostly this adds the job of welding those holes up and trying to straighten the panel properly.

Boring Marc? I don't think so. This car is still throwing enough curveballs to keep things interesting. And the closer I get to paint, the more terrified I get. yikes.gif

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone! beerchug.gif


Too bad you didn't take that left ft corner I have when you had the chance. slap.gif bye1.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 6 2018, 01:38 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Jul 6 2018, 01:30 PM) *

Too bad you didn't take that left ft corner I have when you had the chance. slap.gif bye1.gif


lol-2.gif That was the very first thing that popped in my mind as soon as I discovered it. wacko.gif But after removing enough filler to get the whole picture, I'd still rather patch the holes on this fender than cut the corner out and have to contend with another long butt weld.

Posted by: bbrock Jul 12 2018, 07:11 PM

Not much happening with the car lately. Family visited over the weekend, going on a short trip this weekend, and friends in the area next week. But the UPS folks dropped off a package from Dave Bonbright at Engine Masters today. New guides, springs, valves, and studs. I forgot to ask if he had to replace seats but his reputation is such that I trust his judgement. The work looks spectacular. I'll try not to get diverted from the chassis work too much. smile.gif

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Posted by: Dion Jul 12 2018, 07:24 PM

Ooooh, fresh heads wub.gif This car deserves them. thumb3d.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 23 2018, 07:52 PM

Not the Blast You Might Think
I've had a lot of distractions keeping me from working on the car, but I've also been spending a lot of time media blasting. The subject of DIY chassis blasting pops up now and again, so I thought it might be worth sharing my experience so far.

First, let's be honest. You have to be a masochist to take this task on unless you have access to some premo equipment. If there is one part of this project that I would have liked to farm out, this is it. But I'm a pathologically CSOB trying to do this on a budget without putting more actual cash into the project than the car will be worth coming out.

Second, the best time to blast a chassis is at the beginning of the project, not 1/3 to 1/2 of the way through like I'm doing. Having the car stripped to bare metal from the start would just make the rust repair more pleasant, and save time stripping areas piecemeal to find the sound metal. I didn't take my own advice simply because I had serious doubts about prospects for success going into the project. DIY media blasting is a huge investment in time, and not a small investment in $$. I wanted to make sure I could actually make this car straight and sound before making that investment. Also, with all the sheet metal that was replaced, there is a lot less left to blast now than in the beginning. Enough of coulda shoulda, here's what I'm doing.

I'm using the el cheap HF 40 lb. media blaster
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I've never used a blaster before so don't have a comparison, but it seems to work okay. I'm running it with about 50 psi pressure which is about 40 psi delivered when in operation. The unit has 4 ball valves to control air to the tank, air to the nozzle, media to the nozzle, and a shutoff at the nozzle. Every review says the valve at the nozzle will wear out within a few minutes of use. Mine lasted a surprisingly long time, but it has gone now. I believe Cary recommended buying the optional deadman valve which I think I will do next time I'm in town.

The thing is a bit fiddly to dial in, but once you do, it operates pretty well. The ceramic nozzles are a little prone to clogging when new because they start with a small opening which widens with use until it has to be discarded. I've read complaints that the nozzles wear out fast, but I blasted at least 50 pots of media before my first one wore out. The area that can be blasted is small - only about a square inch with a new nozzle, a little wider as the nozzle wears, but once you have grit flowing, I build a steady rhythm and can strip about 2 sq. ft. before my 60 gal. compressor cycles on. By that time, the hood is starting to fog so it's a good time for a short break.

The biggest frustration is the hood. The blaster comes with a worthless POS so I bought HF's "upgrade" hood. Also a POS that flops around on your head and fogs up as soon as you put it on. I wound up getting this hood:

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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00442XOKI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'll describe this one as adequate, but barely. It has better ventilation so doesn't fog too bad as long as the temperature is not too hot or too cold and the humidity is not too high. Because of this, I'm limited to blasting in the mornings and evenings. The hood also has a piece of aluminum window screen in front of the plexiglass window which reduces the amount of peppering and etching the plexi gets. I'm still on the original piece but frequently remove it for cleaning and polishing. I think I'm going to try a glass window to see if it lasts longer (with safety glasses worn under the hood of course). Had I seen this hood when I started, I probably would have given it a try: https://www.fullsource.com/north-safety-pa111/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg6ut1Mm23AIVE8RkCh394gwqEAQYASABEgLRsvD_BwE What I have is working and an hour or two in the morning and the same in the evening is really about as much blasting fun as one needs.

For media, I'm mostly using medium crushed glass at $21/bag at my local lumber yard. The last time I passed through Billings, I picked up several bags of https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/black-diamond-medium-blasting-abrasives?cm_vc=-10005 at $8/bag. It works almost as well as the crushed glass but seems to wear out faster. Unfortunately, it is a 300+ mile round trip to get it which eats up the savings. I have my tent set up with a tarp on the ground to catch spent media. I vacuum up the used media with the shop vac and pour it through a window screen into a bucket for reuse. The cheap media seems to be good for 2-3 trips through the blaster before it become too dusty to use (oh yeah, I wear a P95 dust mask while blasting). The crushed glass is good for at least 3 and maybe 4 cycles through the blaster. It's a pain in the ass, but saves money.

So far I've spent probably 12 hours actually blasting and another 4 or so vacuuming and sieving media. I've almost completed blasting the front clip of the car which I think will be the most difficult. That does not count the outer body skins which are being stripped with a https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B8GQ0BW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 but I may switch to chemical stripping. My guess is that the front clip is about 1/3 to 1/2 of the total job. So making progress slowly. Like I said, you have to be a masochist.

Now for a few pics:
[Warning: these pictures contain nudity. Parental discretion is advised.]

Sorry for the wonky colors. The tent throws an odd light that doesn't always adjust out.

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Posted by: mepstein Jul 23 2018, 08:28 PM

We take ours to a local (1.5 hours away) commercial blaster. They mostly use plastic media but supplement with more aggressive media on rusty areas. Drop off, pick up a couple weeks later and pay around $12-1500 unless we want epoxy primer, add $300. Plastic media is nice because it doesn’t hold water unlike sand or glass. It also doesn’t seem to get trapped in the seams as much. We’ve looked into diy since we send a chassis over every couple months but after buying the equipment and material and paying labor, it barely pencils out.

Posted by: dr.tim Jul 23 2018, 09:42 PM

I delivered (and picked up) a BMW 2002 to these guys:

http://blastingtechnologies.com


I want to say the job was on the order of $800 with a turn around under a week.


Posted by: bbrock Jul 23 2018, 11:06 PM

QUOTE(dr.tim @ Jul 23 2018, 09:42 PM) *

I delivered (and picked up) a BMW 2002 to these guys:

http://blastingtechnologies.com


I want to say the job was on the order of $800 with a turn around under a week.


That's the only shop I found that I considered - and I did think hard about it. Everyone else around here seems to be focused on blasting brick and stuff so wouldn't trust them with a car. Doing it myself isn't fun, but it mostly just costs time and is saving me coin so I will soldier on. Actually, I don't mind doing it. There is a certain satisfaction in watching the paint and rust strip off to reveal clean metal. It's just slow and messy. My post probably comes off whinier than intended. I just want people to know blasting a full chassis DIY with cheap equipment is possible, but serious work. beer3.gif

Posted by: bbrock Jul 29 2018, 02:11 PM

Lucky 13

Is this too much? My goal for this resto is to enjoy the experience of owning this car when it was new. Part of that experience would have been that when the driver's headlight was changed or serviced, you'd see the number "13" hand written in marker in the bucket.

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So a quick trace was made to help me put it back after paint.

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And some more nudie pics

Making progress ...

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Posted by: aggiezig Aug 1 2018, 07:46 AM

Great progress, keep on keepin' on with the blasting. I've been there too with the HF blaster pot and I can vouch for how little fun it is.

Some things I learned in the process...


Lastly, Godspeed. This job sucks but it looks like you are making great time.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 1 2018, 09:36 AM

QUOTE(aggiezig @ Aug 1 2018, 07:46 AM) *

Great progress, keep on keepin' on with the blasting. I've been there too with the HF blaster pot and I can vouch for how little fun it is.

Some things I learned in the process...
  • Coal slag does blast quicker than crushed glass, but leaves a more abrasive finish afterwords that is harder to prep for paint.
  • Try running as much PSI through that sucker as you can. Also, the more CFM the better. We ran my pot at 120 PSI and our 60 gal compressor has about 12-14 CFM.
  • I rented one of those trailer diesel compressors once because I got sick of waiting on the air compressor to catch up with me. It worked really well but is an added cost and hassel.
  • I ditched the blasting hoods all together and use a good pair of googles that seal to my face and then another face shield over that. Not perfect, but at least I can see what I'm doing.
  • Definitely switch to another valve with a bigger orifice when you get the chance. Eastwood sells a kit.
  • Also, you will probably find that the media will tear a hole through your rubber hose at some point. I ended up replacing my hose with a Goodyear one and rebuilt all of my valves at the same time with new hardware. Made a big difference.
  • Make sure you have the driest air possible. A trick I used was to coil up 50' of air hose in a cooler filled with ice and then use a moisture trap afterwords. The hope is to condense and catch anything before it wets your media.
  • Don't underestimate the value of a handheld speed blaster for quick jobs that don't require the pressure pot. These can be had for $30-40
Lastly, Godspeed. This job sucks but it looks like you are making great time.


Great tips, thanks! I'm down to just the rear wheel wells and cockpit left to go. Paint is thin in the cockpit so should go quickly.

A few responses:

- Coal slag - I saw youtube videos where people said the slag left a rougher texture. I tested mine on undercarriage areas that will get Raptor and couldn't tell any difference from the glass. Maybe because I was running at a low (40 psi) pressure? confused24.gif Anyway, the slag got used up mostly on areas where Raptor will go.

- Pressure - I'll try bumping mine up a bit. With the small nozzles that came with the blaster I found that about 40-60 psi at the pot worked best. But I've switched to larger nozzles so I'll bet more pressure could speed things up.

- Nozzle - I picked up an HF deadman over the weekend. It has a larger nozzle which I like. The trigger spring is pretty stiff so tires the hand but not too bad. It doesn't shut the air flow off completely so you still need to shut off the media valve if you are going to stop for more than 15 seconds or so, but still, a big improvement over what can with the blaster.

- Rubber hose - Yep, mine blew and scared the shit out of me when it popped. Luckily it had eroded where the tube bends coming out of the pot so I was able to just cut 8" off the end and reattach. Expect it to blow again but hoping I can get through the last of the job first.

- Air - I am lucky and live in a dry climate. People complain about it getting "muggy" when relative humidity reaches 40%. I grew up in the humid Midwest so know how funny that is. So what I have is the longest line loop and drop I could fit in the compressor shed between the compressor and wall regulator. The wall regulator is a Sharpe drier which does a good job. I get about a teaspoon of water out after a day of spraying (more from the tank which is on an automatic purge). The only time I saw moisture in the little drier on the blaster was after forgetting to purge the Sharpe after several days of compressor use, and then only a few drops. I've had no problems with the blaster clogging except after recycling media with a fresh small nozzle. Window screen allows a few chunks too large to get through those tiny nozzles. Not a problem with the new nozzles I'm using. Before I paint, I'm thinking of replacing the copper line drop from the compressor with a length of coiled copper tubing to increase the drying capacity just for extra measure.

- Hand held speed blaster - Great tip! I'll look into getting one because I'll have a lot of little spots to touch up after the main blasting is finished. Sounds a lot more convenient than the pot.

Thanks again and enjoy your pretty blue car! Onward ho!

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 1 2018, 02:40 PM

Brent, I went thru 2 Horror Freight POS units before I found this place. I'm usually OK and settle with their "Not Quite as Good" products but I was so tired of clogged pick up tubes I thought I'd try them. I gutted my blast cabinet and used this kit they offer. OMG, what a HUGE difference. They have a sale 2-3 times a year and you can get 10%-20% discount. beerchug.gif

http://www.tptools.com/USA-Cabinet-Gun-and-Pickup-Tube-Upgrade-Kit,2320.html?b=d*8026

Posted by: aggiezig Aug 1 2018, 02:41 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 1 2018, 03:40 PM) *

Brent, I went thru 2 Horror Freight POS units before I found this place. I'm usually OK and settle with their "Not Quite as Good" products but I was so tired of clogged pick up tubes I thought I'd try them. I gutted my blast cabinet and used this kit they offer. OMG, what a HUGE difference. They have a sale 2-3 times a year and you can get 10%-20% discount. beerchug.gif

http://www.tptools.com/USA-Cabinet-Gun-and-Pickup-Tube-Upgrade-Kit,2320.html?b=d*8026


TP makes great blasting equipment. I use their gun in my HF blasting cabinet. Miles better

Posted by: bbrock Aug 1 2018, 03:16 PM

+1 on the TP gun. I thought I had posted about my CSOB mod but can't find it. My blasting cabinet is actually my neighbor's who loaned it to me as long as the project lasts. Not HF but the pickup tube sucked (well, actually DIDN'T suck... which sucked) although the gun and hose are pretty much the same as the TP design (maybe the same gun). So I modded the pickup by drilling and welding on a piece of tube I had laying around to replicate the TP design. Made a HUGE difference.

My blasting equipment:

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Can't find a pic of my modded pickup, but it looks pretty much like this:

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Before I get back to blasting parts in the cabinet, I'm going to install two under counter LED strip lights I picked up on clearance and enlarge the window. My neighbor will get back a much better cabinet than she lent me. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 15 2018, 09:53 AM

I'm a little overdue on an update. I've been working my butt off on the car with little interesting to report so lack of motivation. The last couple weeks can be summed up with blasting, blasting and more blasting, and wiring, wiring, and more wiring. A few snags ordering the wrong parts to finish up harnesses, so that will be revealed in a later post. On Sunday, I finished my first round with the media blaster so the car is nearly naked. I need to do a bit more work on the roll bar and tail which I should finish this week, and strip portions of the right fenders with an abrasive wheel. I'm quite happy with the result.

Total bill for tools and consumables on the blasting was $380. That's a pretty good savings over having the car done elsewhere but you pay in other ways.

Space was tight and lighting bad but here are some shots. Next task will be stripping out the remaining seam sealer and adhesive and blasting those areas. mad.gif

Before blasting the dash, I made a quick trace of the pattern for blackout spray around the vents. Why? I don't know. The factory did it so the car probably won't run right if I don't do it the same way. screwy.gif

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Nothing like a clean cabin.

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Fenders stripped.

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And a peak under her skirt. This area is a bitch to blast. I didn't go for total anhiliation of the rust, just made sure the paint and poly were gone and flaky rust removed down to solid metal that rust converter can handle. Not looking forward to stripping out that sealer. I hate that crap.

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Posted by: bbrock Aug 15 2018, 10:00 AM

So what surprises popped up with the blasting? Not much really. Biggest surprise was the Swiss cheese and bondo on the front fender already posted.

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Moisture under the bondo attacked the side marker opening. No biggie since they are getting deleted, I'll just do a wide excision operation here.

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There's an annoying bit of rot near the left headlight opening that will need a patch.

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And this little dick on the rear right wheel arch.

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Other than that, a half dozen or so pinholes under the trunk, and a stromberg.gif load of pinholes and boogers to fix from my welding.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 15 2018, 10:23 AM

Brett - Looking really nice, all that bare metal... drooley.gif
You've got to be happy to have the blasting work behind you.

Posted by: Dion Aug 15 2018, 01:35 PM

Nice progress bro. I still have sand coming out crevices from last summer! What a job.
Looking great. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2018, 03:29 PM

Mailman brought a few last electrical doodads today so I can button up my harnesses. Getting close. Since I was ordering stuff anyway, it added just a few more dollars to get materials to make one of these. Not sure I got the lengths right but it looks neat. Should be a nice upgrade.

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Posted by: raynekat Aug 17 2018, 12:03 AM

Looking great there man....

You definitely saved some pesos by doing the blasting yourself.
Well done.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Aug 17 2018, 08:09 AM

Brent, what is that sub-harness for?

Posted by: bbrock Aug 17 2018, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(raynekat @ Aug 17 2018, 12:03 AM) *

Looking great there man....

You definitely saved some pesos by doing the blasting yourself.
Well done.


Thanks. There were times I wondered if it would save money at all. The really nice thing with investing this kind of sweat equity is that you wind up with the tools to do it again, or tackle other projects.

QUOTE(doug_b_928 @ Aug 17 2018, 08:09 AM) *

Brent, what is that sub-harness for?


Here I was starting to think nobody would ever ask. biggrin.gif It's an intermittent wiper relay harness. Just need the relay now.

Posted by: KELTY360 Aug 17 2018, 06:45 PM

[/quote]

Here I was starting to think nobody would ever ask. biggrin.gif It's an intermittent wiper relay harness. Just need the relay now.
[/quote]

If it was a British car it would just be called a wiper switch. shades.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 17 2018, 10:13 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Aug 17 2018, 06:45 PM) *

QUOTE


Here I was starting to think nobody would ever ask. biggrin.gif It's an intermittent wiper relay harness. Just need the relay now.


If it was a British car it would just be called a wiper switch. shades.gif


Probably why they won the war. Better rain gear.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 23 2018, 10:46 PM

Finished up some loose ends on harnesses today. UPS delivered some new crimpers for heavier gauge wires. My old alternator harness was beyond shot so I decided to make a new one from scratch. Everything is brand new. I'm really happy with the way it turned out. I had to buy more wire than I needed so I figure I'll make a couple extra and sell them cheap to recoup some of the material costs. I'm just waiting on a slow boat from China to bring me some more gray heat shrink tubing.

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Posted by: bbrock Aug 23 2018, 11:06 PM

I also finally finished the main harness. Wires cleaned. All the rat's nests spliced and repaired. Sleeving cleaned or replaced. Every terminal cleaned and treated with dielectric grease. All missing terminals replaced. I also ran new 12 gauge wire to relocate the fuel pump to the late location under the fuel tank and integrated the rear window defrost cable I picked up from Mr. Baker into the main harness. Maybe some day he'll ship he window and I'll pay him poke.gif Hopefully all this work will eliminate electrical gremlins when the car is back on the road.

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My counterfeit OEM snorkel. I noticed that OEM snorkels have a band of green tape wrapped around them so when a bundle of wire arrived bound with green tape I figured, what the hell. This is actually a 914rubber snorkel which is a little too long because its made for a six. I put what I'm calling the "reverse foreskin fold" in it to shorten it in a tidy manner.

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I crimped on new positive and ground terminals today and attached the positives to the 914rubber battery terminal block.

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I ran an appropriately color coded blk/rd 12 gauge wire from the relay terminal to the fuel compartment area for the fuel pump relocation. I'll have to wait to see what length to cut the wires before I terminate the ends.

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I routed the ground wire from the new pump location to the left headlight ground lug location. I was a little bummed that the brown wire I got was much darker than OEM, but at least it still matches the schematic.

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I just have one more simple harness to build and I will be done with all the harnesses on the car. Waiting for some more heat shrink to arrive for that.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 24 2018, 08:41 AM

Looks good Brett. Have you thought about adding a little solder to those terminals? idea.gif @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=419 got me hooked on soldering crimp fittings. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 24 2018, 08:53 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 24 2018, 08:41 AM) *

Looks good Brett. Have you thought about adding a little solder to those terminals? idea.gif @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=419 got me hooked on soldering crimp fittings. beerchug.gif


Jeff Bowlsby said (and I've read it other places) that soldering crimp connections is frowned upon and not allowed in aviation standards. The rationale is that terminal connections are subject to vibration flex and a rigid solder connection can fatigue and fail. I don't know how important that is in the real world of a 914 and suspect it isn't an issue, but that's why I spared the solder. That said, I did solder a few flag connections because I couldn't justify $40 for a special crimper just to do a couple connections. So I massaged the best crimp I could with the tools I have and then added a little solder for good measure. I'd be interested about other people's thoughts and opinions on this.

Posted by: aggiezig Aug 24 2018, 10:21 AM

Great work as usual. There's a lot more time invested in cleaning up that harness than the pics show.

Posted by: tygaboy Aug 24 2018, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 23 2018, 10:06 PM) *

... integrated the rear window defrost cable I picked up from Mr. Baker into the main harness. Maybe some day he'll ship he window and I'll pay him poke.gif


Yea, yea, I know. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to safely pack it. I plan to get to that this weekend. You'll get my bill soon. happy11.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 24 2018, 06:47 PM

QUOTE(aggiezig @ Aug 24 2018, 10:21 AM) *

Great work as usual. There's a lot more time invested in cleaning up that harness than the pics show.


Ain't that the truth? I need to go back and look, but I'm sure I started this last year. But honestly, the biggest time suck was the time spent sourcing parts and materials. There is no one stop shop, that's for sure. Finding small quantities of the necessary tracer wire is the worst. I used five sources in 3 countries and 2 continents just for the wire! I think there would be a market for someone to supply customized kits for people repairing these old harnesses. smash.gif

Posted by: bbrock Aug 24 2018, 06:49 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 24 2018, 02:44 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 23 2018, 10:06 PM) *

... integrated the rear window defrost cable I picked up from Mr. Baker into the main harness. Maybe some day he'll ship he window and I'll pay him poke.gif


Yea, yea, I know. I'm just trying to figure out the best way to safely pack it. I plan to get to that this weekend. You'll get my bill soon. happy11.gif


Please do! You can see that I'm just a week or so away from being ready to install it! av-943.gif No hurry my friend, no hurry at all. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Dion Aug 24 2018, 07:15 PM

I know how much work you put in that harness. I saw Dave’s all apart
when he was doing his. It scared me off from tackling mine!
Beautiful job Brent!

Posted by: porschetub Aug 24 2018, 08:42 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Aug 25 2018, 02:53 AM) *

QUOTE(76-914 @ Aug 24 2018, 08:41 AM) *

Looks good Brett. Have you thought about adding a little solder to those terminals? idea.gif @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=419 got me hooked on soldering crimp fittings. beerchug.gif


Jeff Bowlsby said (and I've read it other places) that soldering crimp connections is frowned upon and not allowed in aviation standards. The rationale is that terminal connections are subject to vibration flex and a rigid solder connection can fatigue and fail. I don't know how important that is in the real world of a 914 and suspect it isn't an issue, but that's why I spared the solder. That said, I did solder a few flag connections because I couldn't justify $40 for a special crimper just to do a couple connections. So I massaged the best crimp I could with the tools I have and then added a little solder for good measure. I'd be interested about other people's thoughts and opinions on this.

Someone wiser than me said to sweat the solder in to the ends then crimp,so I do that to the limits of my soldering iron,any joints are soldered and glued heatshrink anyway...do it once and do it right.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 27 2018, 01:20 PM

Woo @#$%ing HOO! - Blasting is DONE!

Chassis is finally stripped.. I think. I spent a couple days digging out as much of the remaining seam sealer as I could. It was really tempting to leave sealer that looked in good shape alone, but pretty much every batch I dug out had rust hiding under it.

Crap removal in progress and after. Shiny areas are where I used an abrasive disc.

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Some of these after pics look a little gross because it has been cool and rainy here so I sprayed areas that were flash rusting with phosphoric acid.

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How much trouble will the remaining seam seal make? I'll shoot PPG epoxy primer then new seam sealer.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 27 2018, 01:31 PM

This box of Cracker Jacks had a couple more toy surprises inside. Stripping off sealer on the door jambs, I found a little more rot hiding in the passenger side.

It's a little hard to see, but the pinch weld has rusted through here.

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I'll probably just treat this one with rust converter and forget about it. There is supposed to be a hole here anyway, just not quite this big. It will be encapsulated in seam sealer on both sides again anyway.

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Posted by: aggiezig Aug 27 2018, 01:47 PM

Speaking from experience, that is hands down the worst job on this car. You did an awesome job and everything looks super clean now. Are you going to seam seal back over these areas? I left some bare and seam sealed others. No real rhyme or reason other than what I thought "needed" it.

Keep up the pace, you're killing it.

-Cole

Posted by: Lucky9146 Aug 27 2018, 01:58 PM

Keep at it, looks like you are doing all the right stuff! One benefit of going to this level is you know exactly what you have. beerchug.gif
driving.gif white914.jpg

Posted by: bbrock Aug 27 2018, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(aggiezig @ Aug 27 2018, 01:47 PM) *

Speaking from experience, that is hands down the worst job on this car. You did an awesome job and everything looks super clean now. Are you going to seam seal back over these areas? I left some bare and seam sealed others. No real rhyme or reason other than what I thought "needed" it.

Keep up the pace, you're killing it.

-Cole


Thanks guys. Yes, I will be going back over with seam sealer but using a little more finesse in the areas where the factory gobbed it on to form rust traps. I'm still not sure what the best sequence is. My initial thought was to spray PPG epoxy primer first, then put sealer on top of that followed by another coat of primer but maybe the sealer should go down on bare metal first?

I was also thinking about using brush on sealer on all seams and then spraying beige bedliner over appropriate seams like Kent did on Cairo's build to replicate the sprayed seam sealer look. I haven't seen a more affordable way to get that factory look.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 2 2018, 08:24 PM

Back to patching

I cleaned all the blasting grit out of the cracks and crevices... then I cleaned out the car. laugh.gif I've seen a lot of complaints about how hard it is to get blasting media out of the chassis, but honestly, it wasn't that hard. It did take a few hours. Before blasting, I taped off all of the holes and stuffed plastic bags to minimize what got inside boxed cavities. After blasting, I spent about 3 hours using a combination of the shop vac and compressed air cranked up on full to suck and blow the media out all the holes. When I was done, I couldn't hear anymore grit rattling around when I rotated the car, nor did more than a half teaspoon fall out. I'll go through it again before painting, but it seems pretty clean.

Yesterday I started on patches for all the nice surprises revealed after blasting. First up was that left fender that was hiding under Bondo.

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The fender had been hit, somewhat straightened, hogged out with some death tool to roughen the steel before hiding everything with Bondo. To add insult, the side wart was stuck on with sheet metal screws instead of the proper clips. The plan was simple, straighten the panel, weld up the slide hammer holes, then patch the rusted metal around the wart. Spent almost a full day with shrinking disc and hammers and dollies to get the panel straight and smooth. Welding the holes went well until I worked toward the front and everything started blowing out just waving the welder nozzle toward it. Closer inspection showed dumbasses at the body shop had hogged down the steel to about the thickness of aluminum foil in spots. Time for plan B:

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I tried to cut out all the metal that was either thin or rusted without getting into the curve at the top of the fender that I thought would be hard to match, or the rim around the turn signal bucket. I measured the piece I cut out and the thinnest spots were down to 27 gauge!!!

Here it is ready for welding.

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Things went pretty well except right under the turn signal where I hit some thin metal I hadn't noticed. I thought about cutting another patch but fueled by stubbornness, I was able to use a copper spoon to bridge the patch to good solid steel. After grinding, I sprayed a guide coat and block sanded with 80 grit. After just an hour of hammer and dolly, I had the panel looking pretty decent. It will take a few more hours with shrinking disc and hammers, but I think this is only going to need a very thin coat of filler to mainly fill the shrink around the welds. After the hard fight, I'm ecstatic how it is turning out. And look, no wart hole. aktion035.gif

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Then I took the wife and dog into town for a late lunch. After I got back, I tackled the fender patch next to the hood.

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This one was pretty easy.

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One last thing. With all the grinding still ahead of me to get this thing ready to paint, I decided to splurge and bought two boxes of https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0098MGDGG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. On box each of 36 grit and 80 grit. For some reason, you have to swear you are a professional when you buy these. screwy.gif I love these discs! The discs last about 4X longer than the 3M green discs I've been buying and the edges don't wear out. Definitely the biggest bang for the buck I've found.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 3 2018, 12:25 PM

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First, let's make a template in case warts become a fashion statement in the future and I need to put them back.

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After guide coat, block sanding, and banging on it a bit. If I had a bullet pick, I think I could bring those last few low spots around the welds up. Not sure it is worth it, a tiny bit of filler is all it will need.

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Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 4 2018, 07:53 AM

Really looking nice. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 5 2018, 07:56 PM

Harnesses done.... oh so close anyway.
Got the last bit of gray sleeving yesterday so I was able to build the last harness for my car. The old temperature sender harness was beat to hell and crispy as a pretzel stick.

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It's just a single wire, so easy to do. Good thing I special ordered the correct green/black wire so I could hide it under the sleeving where nobody will see it. I cleaned and straightened the brackets, gave them 3 coats of high temperature satin black and baked them in the oven for 15 minutes at 400F. I don't know if high temp was necessary but just to be safe. Should work anyway.

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Had to take a shot of all my brand new and completely restored harnesses together.

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I mentioned the minimum buy on wire left me with extra, so I built a couple extra alternator harnesses. If anyone is looking for one for cheap, let me know.

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And there's still one incredibly annoying loose end. Literally. I still don't know the correct length for the coil wires on the ignition harness so can't crimp the terminals on. If anyone has an ignition harness handy and can get that measurement, I'd be a happy dude!

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Regardless, after months of having wiring crap junking up the family room, I should score points with the wife when I box up all the harnesses and clean up this mess.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 7 2018, 11:13 PM

Spent this week chasing down all the little rust holes revealed during blasting. I think showing them all would get pretty tedious, so here's just a couple representatives.

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The last patch was the one I said I was going to ignore, but I think we all knew I couldn't dry.gif I didn't get too crazy with it though, it will be sandwiched between layers of seam sealer.

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That is the absolute LAST rust repair! rocking nana.gif monkeydance.gif rocking nana.gif monkeydance.gif rocking nana.gif monkeydance.gif

Now for the long slog of grinding, pinhole filling, and metal finish on the way to paint. smash.gif welder.gif

Posted by: burton73 Sep 9 2018, 02:05 PM

Hi Brent,

When does the weather start to turn for you up there?



Bob B

Posted by: defianty Sep 9 2018, 03:28 PM

Looking good Brent!

Posted by: bbrock Sep 9 2018, 05:23 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Sep 9 2018, 02:05 PM) *

Hi Brent,

When does the weather start to turn for you up there?



Bob B


Hi Bob,

Although we usually get our first dusting of snow at the house sometime in August (which is late this year), the serious snow typically doesn't start until end of October to end of November although I've seen 2 feet of the white stuff dump on Oct. 1. So I'm looking at anywhere from 1-3 months of good weather in front of me before Mother Nature shuts me down. And by good weather, I mean awesome weather for painting. Highs in the 70s, low humidity, and very few bugs.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 10 2018, 05:20 PM

Doing cleanup
Up until now, my priority has been getting fresh metal onto the car. The longer a part sat in my overly cramped shop, the more likely for it to get stepped on, tripped over, or lost. That meant leaving a lot of metal finish work for later and a lot of embarrassing rough edges on the car. Now I finally get to clean up all the ugly crap that has been bugging the stromberg.gif out of me. I'm starting from the front moving back: grinding welds, chasing pinholes, smoothing snaggle-toothed flanges, and stuff like that.

Plan is to straighten, grind, and smooth as much as I can, then give the whole chassis phosphoric acid treatment inside and out. Then I will go over all weld seams with the kevlar reinforced and zinc enriched filler that Ben ( @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=9892 ) turned me on to for final finishing.

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I need to figure out a way to mimic spot welds on those flanges. I've seen a few techniques on restoration forums but none that jump out as a great solution on flanges like these. One guy made a custom dimpler with vice grips which looks slick, but so much of these flanges are welds that I think the flange is too hard to dimple that way. I think I'll experiment with a small carbide burr to see if I can just grind little divots that will mimic spot welds when painted.




Posted by: bbrock Sep 10 2018, 05:28 PM

A few more pics. If you've followed from the beginning, you might remember the front trunk floor was the first patch on the project. Boy was I a shitty welder then. Still am, but less so. No surprise I had a lot of shrink around this weld but it isn't half bad either. It will only take a thin bit of filler to smooth out.

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Welded up holes drilled for the fuel pump relocation above the steering rack. I'll be moving it to a late model access cover. Also had a half dozen rot holes from mouse and weasel piss to fill. If you can't see them, then I'm happy. smile.gif Left a couple boogers down in the bottom that I can't get to with tools. They will be buried under sealer anyway.

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One last one for the road.

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Posted by: bbrock Sep 17 2018, 09:58 PM

Picking Boogers

I've been busy but unfortunately, this is probably the most boring part of the project for you all, but gratifying for me because the chassis is finally starting to look in life like it has looked in my mind for a long time. I've been meticulously going over all chassis front to rear cleaning all the boogers and turds off: making sure every plug weld is completely filled and ground flat, tuning the flanges so they are straight and even, all butt welds are light tight and ground flat, and generally getting the metal as close to perfection as my limited skills will allow. It's looking really good but sadly, phone pics don't do it justice and it won't be acceptable until I've applied a little filler to smooth welding shrink lines that seem to pop out like huge zits in photos. Here's just a few pics but I'll keep them to a minimum so it doesn't get to tedious.

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Posted by: bbrock Sep 17 2018, 10:11 PM

I discovered some piss perforations providing unwanted ventilation to the foot well.

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I decided to gamble with just trying to zap the holes shut. Well that didn't work.

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Just the slightest tap of the welding trigger on low left me chasing holes around. This will need a patch, but it was getting late in the day and I need to be fresh for it.

Details Matter

Instead, I finished the day yesterday on a little detail that has been bugging me.The RD door jambs don't have the same detail connecting them to the rear quarter as the originals. Here's how they look.

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Sorry I've forgotten who's thread I stole this from, but I latched on to this pic as a reference.

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I'm not sure what's different with the RD piece, but I couldn't replicate that detail exactly. Instead, I tried to capture the essence with my own interpretation.

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I'm not sure why I was getting contamination in that weld, but I'll be able to fill those pits. Not only does this look nicer, but I'm sure it is essential to restore the proper aerodynamics to the car. biggrin.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 17 2018, 10:22 PM

Another Detail

This evening I went to the shop with the intention of patching that footwell, but decided I wasn't in the right mood so went for something easier and more fun. You may recall that I had to fabricate and patch the driver's end of the cabin cross member. It originally looked like this. barf.gif

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When I soaked the original e-brake switch in rust remover, it disintegrated, leaving me with no pattern for replicating the mounting hole until I got a new switch. Among some parts I bought from @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=18263 's end of project bargains was a collection of door switches and pieces. I bought them hoping there might be a single pole switch in the batch. There was! Now I could lay out to finally finish the cross member repair.

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After a bit of drilling and filing, I had what I was after.

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It even works beer3.gif

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Posted by: Yasha7fold Sep 17 2018, 10:39 PM

Awesome man. I’m in Billings. What part of Montana are you in?

Posted by: bbrock Sep 17 2018, 10:44 PM

QUOTE(Yasha7fold @ Sep 17 2018, 10:39 PM) *

Awesome man. I’m in Billings. What part of Montana are you in?


Just down the road half way between Livingston and Bozeman beerchug.gif

Posted by: Dion Sep 18 2018, 09:43 AM

Look at all that clean metal!! Wow.
Nice Brent. Let the next chapter begin.
I’m storing key pics from your repairs.
Great reference. Carry on....... welder.gif

beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 18 2018, 10:14 AM

QUOTE(Dion @ Sep 18 2018, 09:43 AM) *

Look at all that clean metal!! Wow.
Nice Brent. Let the next chapter begin.
I’m storing key pics from your repairs.
Great reference. Carry on....... welder.gif

beerchug.gif


Thanks Dion. beerchug.gif If there is ever a spot you'd like a picture of, let me know. I have a crapload of pics that I don't post. I think I'm at overkill as it is.

I forgot to mention the most important part of my latest work. I rewelded any areas of seams on the floor pan and longs that didn't get full penetration due to the failing diode problems. i wanted to make darn sure those members got complete metal fusion. For example, you can see panel edges in a few spots in the left pic. Those have been welded through and ground down.

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The only sucky thing is that it means I burned through some of the epoxy primer inside my longs, but I'll be spraying inside with Eastwood Internal Frame Coating followed by 3M cavity wax soon, so they should be well protected.

Posted by: TravisNeff Sep 18 2018, 11:13 AM

I had to grind and reweld my floor seam as well. You just can't get things clean enough.

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 18 2018, 12:38 PM

If you don't get hung up on the paint work, I'm thinking you and that teener will be at the next WCR. You will never get nominated for the "Slackers Thread" at this pace. beerchug.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 19 2018, 02:22 PM

Not much happening with work right now (I'll never get used to the feast or famine life of a self-employed consultant), but that means more time to work on the car. Yesterday I started on the foot well patch and I just finished it. I think this was the hardest patch of the whole project only because I thought I was done with these @#$% things. Access was a bit tricky but not the worst. I didn't document the process - same as the dozens of other patches. It came out decent enough. I wound up with a nasty oil can from putting too much heat in the panel stubbornly trying to zap those holes shut before resigning myself to make another patch. A few passes with the trusty magic shrinking disk had that panel straight and TOIT again!

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Backside isn't too bad either. Photo doesn't do just to how narrow that crevice at the bottom is. If it wasn't going to be buried under spray-on seam sealer, I'd get in there with a carbide burr and clean it up more.

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It did extract its pound of flesh though. Floor pan looks like a crime scene.

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I couldn't work in that cramped space without the cable ties on the tunnel digging into my arm. No biggie.

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I've said I'd completed my last patch before, so I won't jinx it - just quietly hoping. unsure.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 20 2018, 08:43 PM

Moved on to the engine bay today. Plenty of boogers to clean up in there.

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Still a work in progress so no "after" shots yet.

The day I finished blasting was cool and rainy so the engine bay flash rusted right away. Thought this was interesting; can you pick out the RD Galvanneal panels?

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I got a package from Belmetric today which let me take care of that yellow tag on the battery tray. Nice to have that done.

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I wasn't going to grind the plug welds under that battery tray, but now that I see this photo, I've changed my mind. barf.gif

Posted by: mepstein Sep 20 2018, 09:15 PM

I use some old foam pads, the kind that interlock with different colors, saved from when my kids were young and used them as an indoor playground. Throw one or two in the car when you have to sit or lay down on the floor. Cardboard works but the foam is actually comfy.

Posted by: euro911 Sep 20 2018, 09:52 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Sep 19 2018, 01:22 PM) *
... I couldn't work in that cramped space without the cable ties on the tunnel digging into my arm. No biggie.

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...
'Tis a mere flesh wound ... it'll buff out poke.gif

Hell, simply looking at my arms long enough seems to rip the skin open these days dry.gif

Posted by: bbrock Sep 20 2018, 10:19 PM

QUOTE(euro911 @ Sep 20 2018, 09:52 PM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Sep 19 2018, 01:22 PM) *
... I couldn't work in that cramped space without the cable ties on the tunnel digging into my arm. No biggie.


...
'Tis a mere flesh wound ... it'll buff out poke.gif

Hell, simply looking at my arms long enough seems to rip the skin open these days dry.gif


Yep. It'll buff out alright. A smart person would use padding or put some tape on the sharp edge like Mark said. Honestly, I didn't notice it was poking me until I saw the lovely painting on the floor pan. Then I ignored it and went back to work. If I'm not bleeding from something at the end of the day, I wonder what's wrong.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 21 2018, 07:56 PM

Had an hour to kill before a conference call this morning which was just enough time to sneak out to the shop and mostly knock off an item on the task list (a great luxury of working from home). When I welded up the outer longs from RD, there were nuts welded in the bottom for the rocker covers on the passenger side, but I neglected to check the driver's side and nope, holes but no nuts. headbang.gif It would have been easy to weld those nuts in BEFORE the panel went on, but we're beyond that now. The solution was these weld-on nutserts:

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I was a little bummed to see the threaded portion sunk kind of deep in the tube. It would work, but would require a longer bolt than OEM spec and that's the kind of thing that would drive me screwy.gif So instead of sinking them all the way, I mounted them so the threaded portion starts just to the inner side of the hole.

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I ground them off and think that should work.

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I said almost completed the task because there is supposed to be a third nut on each side on the inner wheel well section. The RD panel isn't drilled or fitted with a nut (maybe because there is too much variance in how that piece gets fitted to the car) and subsequently, none on the driver's side where I fabricated a patch using the RD piece as a template. So I will have to mount the rocker covers to locate those holes tomorrow to drill and fit with inserts.

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At least it was a little progress for the day.

Posted by: bbrock Sep 22 2018, 10:15 PM

FUCH!!!

I was making great progress today and was on track to finish the metal work by the end of the day when I heard air compressor kick on and then quickly off again. The motor was hot as hell so I pulled the cover off to inspect. Found the start of a mouse nest over part of the intake but it didn't seem like it should have blocked air flow that much. Let the motor cool down and started up again. In about 20 seconds, it shut off again. Shit! Tore it completely apart, hoping to find more of that nest inside the motor to explain the problem.

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No luck. Things looked pretty clean inside. No sign of scorched wires and bearing still spun freely. The only things I found were some carbon buildup on a pair of relay contacts that I assume are part of the thermal protection circuit, and the main blower on the compressor was loose but still spinning. I cleaned the contacts and put the damn thing back together, still not sure what the problem is. By this time, I'd lost half a day of work and it was too dark to mount the compressor back on the tank. I'll do that in the morning and hope for the best.

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Not sure what the plan will be if it's still not working. Just when I thought I might actually beat winter and get some paint on the car. headbang.gif hissyfit.gif

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