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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Oil Filter
Posted by: Tom73 May 8 2005, 09:21 AM
Very dumb question, but what oil filter does the 1.7 use?
tom...
Posted by: Headrage May 8 2005, 09:23 AM
I think it's a standard type 4 Mahle. From what I've been told, always use Mahle. I get mine from the local vw place.
Posted by: ! May 8 2005, 09:34 AM
If the Texas Vdub place doesn't carry them...try GPR or the Pelican Parts....
Posted by: Tom73 May 8 2005, 12:01 PM
| QUOTE ("Z" @ May 8 2005, 07:34 AM) |
| If the Texas Vdub place doesn't carry them...try GPR or the Pelican Parts.... |
There is not a generic Fram or other make?
Posted by: ! May 8 2005, 12:04 PM
Lot's of stuff on Fram on this and other forums....they have been documented as exploding on Porsches due to a lack of a bypass that the Mahle and German made for T4s and 911 motors have....personally I think Frams are cheap pieces of crap and none of my cars have them...including American ones.
Just a personal preference.
Posted by: Tom73 May 8 2005, 01:34 PM
I agree on the Fram quality, at least in their base filters. I do not use them on any of my cars, including the Vettes. Was just thinking that if I had a fram number then I could cross refference to better filters. The Mahle seem hard to find and pricey.
tom...
Posted by: ! May 8 2005, 01:50 PM
What's out there that is better than a Fram....well oem stuff. I use GM stuff for the Yukon and Mahle for my 356, 911 and 914......
The price of a filter seems cheap when faced with an engine rebuild due to cheaping out on good maintenence parts....
A couple of national auto repair shops warranty brake pads, starters, and alternators for life.... they are cheap pieces of crap....I'd rather replace with quality parts and worry less....
Posted by: dmenche914 May 8 2005, 04:48 PM
Frams are junk for the 914, I have had two of the Frams internall fail, which means they gave no filtration!!!
Also had problems with Frams on my VW Vanagon.
Stick with either Mann, or Mahle brand oil filters on you 914, well worth the little extra cost, considering that the Frams failed to filter my oil!
On the vanagon, not only do they not have a back flow valve (hence noisey lifters for first mile) they also have a bigger oil pressure drop (more restricitive filter) that is until they fail, and the guts rattle around in the can, offering no filtration (and very little back pressure)
Posted by: Rog914 May 8 2005, 04:51 PM
I've been using K&N oil filter. Seems to be well built and I like the sheet metal "nut" welded on the bottom, makes it easier to replace, no need for a oil filter wrench.
Ralph
74 2.0
Posted by: red914 May 8 2005, 05:24 PM
this is some interesting reading:
http://wetwesties1.tripod.com/oilfilterstudy/index.html#w51515
it was posted a while back in a thread by Geoff in seattle.
Posted by: Tom73 May 8 2005, 06:23 PM
| QUOTE (Rog914 @ May 8 2005, 02:51 PM) |
| I've been using K&N oil filter. Seems to be well built and I like the sheet metal "nut" welded on the bottom, makes it easier to replace, no need for a oil filter wrench. Ralph 74 2.0 |
Ralph,
What is the number on that K&N?
tom...
Posted by: Series9 May 8 2005, 06:51 PM
PH2870A.
Use that number as a cross-reference to get the filter brand you want.
Same filter for all 4-cyl water cooled VWs and 914s.
Posted by: jd74914 May 8 2005, 07:00 PM
All the catalogs (performance, mid america) have Mahle filers. They are like $10 each if my memory serves me correctly. I agree with Mike Z; frequent oil changes and good filters are much cheaper than dry engines and rebuilds.
Posted by: anthony May 8 2005, 08:57 PM
$6/each at Pelican. Whenever I buy parts from one of the usual vendors I check my stock to make sure I have at least a couple filters on shelf.
If you are stuck and need to buy a filter at the FLAPS I've noticed that other brands (like Bosch, Purolator, maybe K&N) have the spring loaded bypass valve instead of the rubber flap like Fram.
Posted by: Pugbug May 8 2005, 10:41 PM
Is there anything wrong with the Bosch filters? I just bought two of them for the 914, and I use the Bosch filter made for the VW diesel Rabbit in my dune buggy. ( type one full flow) and it has worked out fine.
Posted by: Rog914 May 9 2005, 05:12 AM
Tom
Can't find where I put my spare K&N oil filters at. Bought mine from Performance Products $9.95 each(1-800-423-3173).
Ralph
74 2.0
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 9 2005, 09:08 AM
| QUOTE (914RS @ May 8 2005, 04:51 PM) |
| PH2870A. Use that number as a cross-reference to get the filter brand you want. Same filter for all 4-cyl water cooled VWs and 914s. |
Same number? THAT should tell you something. There are at least FOUR different water colled VW oli filter specs, all replaced by ONE FRAM! And none of those 4 are the same as the one for air cooled engines. I wouldn't use a FRAM filter on my bicycle .................... The Cap'n
Posted by: dmenche914 May 9 2005, 09:46 AM
i agree with that about frams, one part number referenced for several different VW's that the VW factory says should be different.
Case in point;
Fram lists same filter for the Rabbit, as the the Vanagon. The factory VW filters for these two cars look the same size, and both "fit' either car, however the Fram filter, besides being of lower quality (like internals falling apart in my case) is not interchangable between cars.
The Vanagon requires a check valve to prefent it from draining when engine is stopped, the rabbit does not (because of filter orientation) The vanagon also requires a different bypass pressure than the Rabbit.
The result, put the Fram on the Vanagon, and the oil pressure is lower than with the German filter (better filter area no doubt) and the lifters clank like crazy if the van was parked for a week, cause it take a while for the filter to pump up. Installed the german filter, and the lifter noise stopped, oil pressure went up, and I have never seen a german factory filter fail, the frams have had at least two failures on my cars.
At anyrate, the Fram cross reference is not the bible for filters, it is printed for Fram so they can sell more filters.
Do not risk you engine on an orange fram
Now I know fram does make a higher quality filter, I beliew it is the Fram HP1 , it is a big filter, more expensive than most frams, and is made for high performance, it is often used on full flow systems, as it has a high bust pressure. It however is too big to fit on the stock 914 location.
Stick with factory recommended filters, they are high quality. The cross reference book is just a sales enhancer for Fram, and in some cases using it will harm your car (at least your Vanagon) and thats if the filter does not fail, with the qulaity I have found from frams 'cross referneced" for 914 filters, you would be just as well with no filter at all.
Posted by: Brett W May 9 2005, 09:49 AM
Go up to the equivilent of a Motorcraft FL1-A. Use Purolator brand, although they make the Ford Filter. This filter will allow you to hold 1 quart of oil in the filter itself and the Purolator are a good german filter.
Posted by: Tom73 May 9 2005, 09:57 AM
| QUOTE (Brett W @ May 9 2005, 07:49 AM) |
| Go up to the equivilent of a Motorcraft FL1-A. Use Purolator brand, although they make the Ford Filter. This filter will allow you to hold 1 quart of oil in the filter itself and the Purolator are a good german filter. |
Are you saying that a Motorcraft FL1-A will work?
tom...
Posted by: mudfoot76 May 9 2005, 10:03 AM
The K&N oil filter is awesome 
I've had a FLAPS oil filter burst on me, sending a gallon of fresh 20w50 all over my garage floor 
I guess the gasket on the top of the filter just couldn't handle the pressure. It sucked, and I'll not make that mistake again. I've also used the Mann and Mahle filters and those worked great, but I really like how the K&N has the fixture on it for using the socket wrench. That is a brilliant innovation.
Posted by: cnavarro May 9 2005, 10:35 AM
I switch between the K&N and the Mobil 1 filter. There also is a "Hard Driver" brand filter that has the best filtration - comparable to the Amsoil filters, but both are not available at your FLAPS. Autozone carries both the K&N and Mobil 1 filters.
Posted by: 7391420 May 9 2005, 11:35 AM
I've used bosch filters for the last 3 years and have been very happy with them. I happened to pick up a few Mann filters from my last P-Parts order, and they look identical. My FLAPS sells bosch and always has the 914 filter in stock so I've always gone for that. My recollection is that the bosch filter is 6 or 7 bucks, while the fram or similar are like 3.00. FYI-a lot of FLAPS also sell the mobil 1 filters, if I wasn't so cheap I'd probably use them! but they are like 15.00 or so..
-The last time I did an oil change on my jeep I got a fram filter because they were doing a deal, like 6 quarts and a filter for 10.00, the filter had loose metal shavings around the top! what a POS! I took it back!
Posted by: dmenche914 May 9 2005, 01:28 PM
Factory filters, factory filters, factory filters. Unless proven otherwise, all the aftermarket ones are suspect. Folks say their filters work great, but lets see some data, oil pressure changes (I found as i recall about 5 psi increase on my Vanagon going from a fram to a mahle).
Purchase the factory and aftermarket filter, and look at the guts, how much filter material, metal shavings (as pointed out by other poster) burrs, construction of check valves, relief valves (check valve not an issue in 914 application cause filter can is rightside up)
Nut up, and spend the big bucks (less than $10) and get the mann or mahle, unless you have proven to yourself the aftermarket filter is truely better. Factory filters work as intended, are high quality, give peace of mind.
Fancy wrench holders or grip coatings (which likely reduce heat conduction) are great for making sales, but if the filter is unknown in quality, pressure drop, filter area, etc... you are risking your engine on a sales gimmick.
If you need a wrench to remove the filter, you likely are putting it on too tight, the factory filters are ment to be hand tight, torque too much, and they will be a bear to remove, and require a wrench, torque way too much, and I suppose the aluminum filter holder could snap off.
You should not need anything but your hands to remove the 914 filter.
Factory filters hold nearly a quart of oil, so nothing special about the Purolator filter holding a quart of oil as posted.
Why tango with Purolator when you can get factory recommended filters, and they hold a quart?
The bottom line is you want quality, a filter that will not fail internally (like Frams have in my experience) You want a filter with minimal pressure drop, and maximum filtering (minimal particle size) That usually means a fine filter media, with a large surface area. Sure you can have low pressure drop with a small filter area, but only if the pore size is huge, allowing huge particles to pass.
Posted by: Yoei66 May 9 2005, 02:22 PM
This may explain a problem I've had since I changed my oil. I put a Purolator filter on. I started noticing oil drips on the garage floor soon after. It seemed to be dripping from the filter, so I twisted it a hair tighter. I still seem to have this leak at the filter. I don't recall this problem when I was using the german oil filter previously supplied by the PO. Mabey I'll change to a Mahle or Mann before the Purolator blows.
Posted by: cnavarro May 9 2005, 04:02 PM
I personally stopped using the Pureolator filters after taking one apart. I don't care for the string they wrap around the filter element. It has also been documented that although the tightly packed pleats in the filter catch way more crap than most filters (with exception of synthetic media), they also clog up very quick- i.e., replace them every 3k miles like every jiffy and quicky lube place says.
Although I know the K&N unit is bulletproof, they don't quote any filtration #'s, whereas the Mobil 1 unit has been found to be one of the best available.
Posted by: anthony May 22 2005, 07:54 PM
FYI, Bosch filters are on sale at Kragen for $3.99 this week (you need a coupon from the Sunday paper).
Posted by: Rhodes71/914 May 22 2005, 08:59 PM
Just used a Napa Gold, didn't want to but it needed changing. It will have to do until I get my first Alaska parts delivery from Pelican.
Posted by: CptTripps May 26 2005, 09:12 AM
Interesting study on oil filters...
Study - http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html
Conclusinons - http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilters.html
Posted by: 7391420 May 26 2005, 10:37 AM
Why does he so highly recommend the Mobil 1 filter after he admits that he has recieved many reports of these filters spliting at the seam and failing????
Posted by: CptTripps May 26 2005, 11:33 AM
Yeah, that confused me too....but he did a bunch of cool research, so I thought I'd post the link.
I called Stoddard and they have the filter in stock, so I'm headed there to get one.
021-115-351-A - $8.33
I'm local so that's a pretty good deal for me. He said the filter says Audi on it...can that be right?
Posted by: nebreitling May 26 2005, 12:16 PM
Mahle OC28. all i've used. will look at the mobil 1.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 26 2005, 01:10 PM
| QUOTE (914RS @ May 8 2005, 04:51 PM) |
| PH2870A. Use that number as a cross-reference to get the filter brand you want. Same filter for all 4-cyl water cooled VWs and 914s. |
Well, right off the bat, air cooled T4 VWs and 914s take one filter, and water cooled vehicles take about 4 different ones, depending on the year and model, and NONE of them are the same as the air cooled cars. Fram lists the PH 16 as a direct replacement for the OE filter for aircooled, and the PH 2870A as fitting a bunch of later model VWs and Audis. The air cooled filter is stubby and wide, the water cooled filters, for the most part, are tall and thin. I wouldn't use a Fram filter in ANYTHING I cared about, including the return line on my parts washer. The Cap'n
Posted by: Marty Yeoman May 26 2005, 01:29 PM
K&N for Type-4 is #HP-2004
I use 'em and like 'em.
Posted by: CptTripps May 26 2005, 01:32 PM
| QUOTE (Marty Yeoman @ May 26 2005, 02:29 PM) |
| K&N for Type-4 is #HP-2004 I use 'em and like 'em. |
For the price, I'll go with the OEM filter...
Posted by: SGB May 26 2005, 09:48 PM
I have a wix version of the hp-1 right now. Freind at auto parts store says he thinks the specs he has seen in tests indicate wix as superior to other domestics (fram, motorcraft),
Posted by: Mark Henry May 27 2005, 06:06 AM
I did use the Fram HP-1 for years without issues BUT thats on bug full flow set-ups. The HP-1 is a better than FLAPS filter, most of which are cheap crap. I've exploded cheap filters, oil everywhere, I still have oil on the ceiling and wall of my shop.
The Wix also works well.
That said.....
For the T4 I have always used Mann, Mahle and Bosch with no issues and I now use the Mann for my full flow set-ups.
T4's with big pumps have huge oil pressures on a cold morning start up, if the stock offerings can handle these pressures it's one hell of a filter.
Posted by: Tom Perso May 27 2005, 07:36 AM
Here's what a Purolator did on my 2270 when it was in the Bug...
I only run the K&N filter since the base and casing is so much stronger. Money well spent.
Tom
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