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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:12 AM

Because this comes up so often I decided to make a tutorial on how I install the Ford solenoid.

The Ford solenoid fixes the common hot start problem of Bosch starter solenoid and it also reduces the load on the ignition switch. Although these instructions are for the 914 all aircooled VW's and Porsche often suffer from this problem and with minor changes this can be done to any car.

The issue occurs because the Bosch starter solenoid needs a full 9 volts to kick in. The combination of age, heat, corrosion, many connectors, a small ignition switch and wiring running to the dash and back can degrade the volts to less than the 9V required.
The Ford solenoid only needs about 3 volts for the 12V version and even less for the 6V which for our purpose works no problem.

My installation drills no holes in the car, not a single factory wire is cut, no in-line fuses, fully reversible and simple with no added bullshit.

Please this is not a discussion on if you prefer the wimpy (IMO) Bosch horn relay, want to cut and hack in a new wire or believe throat singing Vajrayana chants is a better method, start you're own thread.

Of course as with any electrical trouble shooting the first order of business is always clean all of your grounds and make sure the chassis to transmission ground strap is in place and in good condition.

I'll start right away with the money shot of the completed installation to show how clean this can be done.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:26 AM

This is a Ford solenoid very common fender mounted unit available up to 1967 in a 6 volt one small post version and up to the end of the 80's as a 12 volt 2 small post unit.
I recommend the type that has the bracket, the ones with the tabs are a PITA as you have to make a bracket.

This one is a used and 12V, but is nice because it is a made in USA solenoid. Now all the new ones are made in china. One person said they had a china made unit fail, but I've personally never seen it.
I've only ever had one fail in close to 30 years of doing this and that was due to corrosion after 8 years of hard winter driving.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:30 AM

First thing you need to do is enlarge the one hole so it fits onto the starter mount 10mm stud, you want to only cut the one side so you can't drill it. I use a burr on a die grinder, but this can be done with a round file.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:39 AM

Then cut the bracket about 3/4" to 1" as shown with a hacksaw.
I marked the bend and cut out to make sure it not only cleared the nut, but the socket as well, for ease of installation.

When making the bend in the bracket it is very important that you DO NOT stress the plastic housing of the solenoid. I use two vice grips to start the bend, then finish it up in my vice.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:42 AM

Once done you can hang it off the bottom starter mount stud to start the nut, then if you did your bend job correctly you can get a 17mm deep socket on it to tighten it up.
I mount the solenoid plastic side up just in case water gets into the solenoid, so that it can drain back out.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 05:46 AM

Ring connectors from your local FLAPS seem to come in two sizes, way too big and too small.
Get the too small ones made for 10 gauge wire, with the yellow ends.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:01 AM

The best method to enlarge the ring connector hole is to use a block of wood and a step drill bit as shown. Go slow and it does a nice job.
Note I have the connector upside down so that it catches on the end of the wood.

I hate the plastic sleeves on generic connectors so I cut them off, I'll be using heat shrink tube to finish them off. Please be careful cutting them off.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:12 AM

So these are the connectors needed, but in a brain fart moment I forgot the one female quick connector that is also needed.

The tab connector I had, I think it was on an old VW wiper assembly. Likely you can get them from McMaster-Carr but I think they only come in boxes of 100.
You can make one ghetto from a connector or fab one yourself by cut/drilling it out from some copper pipe although pipe is a bit too thick.


The hacked up ring connector shows how bad it gets trying to drill them with regular drill bits. Rack your fingers a few times when the connector catches and spins and you'll be out picking up a step drill bit PDQ.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:18 AM

For crimping the wires go out and get proper crimpers that put a dimple into the connector. Toss those POS cheap ass FLAPS or dollar store "crimpers" in the trash.

Here I'm using a fairly inexpensive Panduit crimper/stripper set I've had for years.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:24 AM

For the wire I'm using 10 gauge multi-strand primary wire.

I slide on heat shrink tubing, then crimp the one end on, then bend it to the shape I like.
Then I repeat for the other side. Don't forget to slide the tube on before crimping the connector.
You want to bend it so it doesn't touch the starter, as that could rub through the plastic wire covering and cause a short.

A tip to make a real nice job is to slide your HS tube on, bend your wire first and then heat shrink the tubing.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:32 AM

This shows how to connect the wire to the solinoid, dead simple.
There is no right or wrong way to do this, it's a simple switch, it will work in either direction.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:35 AM

if you are worried about the exposed hot positive you could find a boot that fits, here I used a simple end cap from a hardware store.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:38 AM

This shows your existing main battery stock wire that comes directly from the battery to the starter.




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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:41 AM

The factory yellow wire that was on the Bosch starter now plugs directly into the Ford solenoid.

Note that this one has two small posts you only need to use the one, this one seems to be backwards from most of the solenoids I've used. Only one side will work, so if yours doesn't work first time flip these around.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:43 AM

A couple of zip ties and you're done.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 06:54 AM

This is real simple to make and crimpers should be a tool in every car guys tool kit, but if if you really think there's a demand for this I could offer a complete plug and play wiring kit for something like $30 shipped USA and Canada.

If I were to offer a kit I'd look into using better strain relief connectors.
You would still have to buy a solenoid and do the mount mod.

Posted by: jim_hoyland Apr 24 2017, 07:14 AM

Great write up- Admins, please add this to the Classics
One question: how is the Ford solenoid different from using a 50 amp relay. Many hot-start kits and threads in The Garage use the smaller relay. Just curious as to the pros and cons...

Posted by: Kansas 914 Apr 24 2017, 07:14 AM

Mark - Thanks so much for the detailed documentation. It is indeed the RIGHT way to do it.

ADMINS - How does this get moved to the Classics?

Cheers!

Posted by: shoguneagle Apr 24 2017, 07:43 AM

It does belong in the Classics! Great job coming from a grump old rascal. Keep up the great work.

Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 09:49 AM

I don't want an argument as to which is better but this is my logic:

1/ I've been doing this forever, not about to change. Before me guy's like Gene Berg have been doing it since the 60's, so this has been a mod done for over 50 years.

2/ The Ford solenoid is waterproof, at least damn water resistant, the SPST relay is not at all. So you must mount the bosch horn relay in the engine bay, run wires through the grommet, tap into a power source, use a fuse, drill a mounting hole and cut the factory wire or at least make an extension/adaptor.

3/ the SPST relay (bosch horn relay) may be 30-50amp which should be enough on paper, but it still has very small contacts. The Ford solenoid must be rated for at least 500 cranking amps, likely much more.

4/ I've personally only had one failure, one that was so badly corroded after 8 winters that the bracket/bottom rusted right off at the rivets and the solenoid literally spilled it's guts in my hand when I took it off.
I've replaced several perfectly good looking SPST relays with a ford unit.

Technically I guess you can say I've had two failures, as a rookie I bent the mount by reefing on the plastic housing and broke one. That's why I instruct you to only bend the mount using two pliers, experience.

5/ The solenoid is fastened to the transmission starter bolt, not the body, so there's almost no vibration strain on the wires.

6/Unless you run across a concours weenie who likes to crawl under cars, just to be an ass pointing out everything that is not factory on a person's 914, you're the only person that will ever know.

7/ When I turn the key the first thing I like to hear is a spinning starter.

8/ I'll think of more reasons, hold my beer.

9/ KISS, this is such a simple fix.

If any of you guys who can't stand the thought of a Ford part on a Porsche, but have a Rennshifter, well you better toss that puppy in the trash.
Jwest now makes all his parts, but the early versions were a modified Ford Mustang shifter. The basic design has not changed.
So send that puppy to me and I'll dispose of it properly, I hate them so much I'll even pay you the shipping.

Posted by: ndfrigi Apr 24 2017, 10:07 AM

thank you for sharing!

Posted by: jim_hoyland Apr 24 2017, 10:28 AM

Thanks for that clarification; makes good sense. Is there a part # for the type of solenoid you used above ? I'M going o switch out my "horn relay" for the Ford relay as y let your excellent write up

Posted by: SKL1 Apr 24 2017, 11:44 AM

Thanks much Mark- on my way out to the garage...

Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 24 2017, 11:59 AM

I added a point about running the wire, make sure it doesn't touch the starter, as it could eventually rub through the plastic covering.
I've never seen it happen, but better to be safe than sorry.

Posted by: stinkindiesel Apr 24 2017, 12:55 PM

Thanks Mark!

I mounted mine using a couple of hose clamps around the solenoid, but I like your method better.

Gary

Posted by: GeorgeRud Apr 24 2017, 02:44 PM

I wonder if there's another design that would allow the solenoid to mount utilizing both ears rather than one? As the one side is at a constant +12 volts, I'd be concerned about vibration eventually causing the solenoid mount to crack and create a mother of a short if that terminal contacted the grounded metal. Perhaps a bracket using two of the transmission to engine mounting bolts would make a sturdier, vibration resistant design. Yes, I am a belt and suspenders type of guy, but have witnessed what happens when a battery positive terminal touches the metal of the body firsthand.

Still, great write up on the wiring for the solenoid.

Posted by: 914GT Apr 24 2017, 03:29 PM

A few more things to consider...
I like to use wire with a high-temp insulation around the engine. Some of the primary wire from the local auto store has PVC insulation that can melt pretty easy so make sure it can't get too close to hot parts. I like Teflon insulation, or maybe put heat shrink tubing over the full length for extra insulation.

I don't trust crimp terminals for anything high current or vibration. For some extra reliability you can wick some solder into the terminals.

The protective caps on the big terminals is really a good idea not just in case the relay came loose. An exposed terminal to the battery can be dangerous if you accidently got a wrench or screwdriver across it. I know someone who got his watch band on a starter solenoid terminal and it took a long time for the severe burn on his wrist to heal up. Of course he shouldn't have had a watch on in the first place.

Posted by: RobW Apr 24 2017, 03:32 PM

Nice work Mark! Classic for sure.

Posted by: HalfMoon Apr 25 2017, 08:12 AM

Genius level hack.
Good on ya Mark!

Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 25 2017, 03:30 PM

I've never had an issue and one car I did, a summer DD, has had the same repair for close to 25 years without being touched. If you're worried about the nut coming loose just use some red loctite on it.
Same with the wires, since the solenoid is attached to the tranny it doesn't see a huge amount of vibration. If the solenoid was screwed to the body then I'd worry about the connectors and vibration.
I've also never seen heat as an issue as well.

Not my first rodeo, I've done this mod countless times since around 1990.

Posted by: Harpo Apr 25 2017, 06:01 PM

Nicely done Mark

Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 25 2017, 10:28 PM

Thanks everyone

Just to calm some peeps fears I did some housekeeping on my install and made it even better. I shaped the main battery cable so it runs right beside my wires, then I zip-tied the whole bundle together.
So that's a 3 gauge and two 10 gauge wires tied together, the thing is almost like a solid pipe. If the nut holding the solenoid on was to come loose the solenoid still isn't going anywhere.
Short of something catastrophic, like an axle failure, I'd say it's now bulletproof.


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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 25 2017, 10:38 PM

I know I've said I dont like to cut factory wires, but this is all part of my custom /6 conversion harness.
This is the custom end of the engine harness I made from an salvaged main harness and pins from an old relay board. My /6 engine is total plug and play with about 6 connectors and the relay board has been deleted.
The harness stays on the engine for R&R.




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Posted by: SKL1 Apr 26 2017, 07:36 PM

Finished installing the new "Ford" part- got it from Amazon for $20 shipped prime. A little different than the one above with only one small terminal- works great. Car cranked right over.

Thx Mark.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Apr 26 2017, 08:10 PM

Now that looks very sturdy and it's a beautiful write up.

Posted by: Rob-O Apr 26 2017, 08:42 PM

Great write up. And to think, the money you spend on the solenoid will prevent you from having to purchase six Chinese made ignition switches over the next year and a half...

It's a win-win.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 5 2017, 10:07 AM

I added a link to this thread in my signature.

Posted by: jkb944t Jul 5 2017, 11:08 AM

Mark--very impressive write up/ conversion. Somehow I missed this earlier so thanks for sharing.

Jeff B

Posted by: 11tenths Jul 5 2017, 01:27 PM

I bet the Cap'n would approve, but Slits would still bitch about something...

I miss them a lot, but your posts go a long way towards filling the gap they left.

Nice job

Cheers- Harry

Posted by: moorepower Aug 5 2017, 06:03 AM

The Ford solenoid is a great idea, and works with most applications. I would soldier the joints to keep from corroding and assure a long term connection. I worked on Brown trucks for 25 years so I can attest to the solenoid, but also the upgrade to solder as well. I really like the liquid electrical tape over the studs and any wire exposed to the elements as well.

Posted by: porschetub Aug 6 2017, 06:01 PM

Ok I'am in on this,is there a part number for the solenoid ? any idea if I could pick it up on the west coast so I can ship for a reasonable price to my country,thanks Mark.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 7 2017, 09:53 AM

Standard SS-558 is the 6V single small post, works fine at 12V and takes less amps to kick than the 12V.

Standard SS-588 is the 12V two small post, works fine. Also called SW3

I prefer the "Standard" brand name.

They sell Fords in NZ, you should be able to get it local.
They were on all kinds of cars and trucks, huge number of different manufactures part numbers.
Evilbay ads below have a list of vehicles. First link is 12V, 2nd is 6V:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Solenoid-Made-in-USA-Fits-Jeep-Ford-Ranger-Bronco-12V-/291362199782?epid=1417805776&hash=item43d68a58e6:g:gRkAAOSw6YtZS4xS&vxp=mtr


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Solenoid-Standard-SS-558/232245464413?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3Df57969f0f7034406a135e3f5239ebd09%26pid%3D100033%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D192263196527&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042

Posted by: porschetub Aug 7 2017, 03:07 PM

Thanks Mark,most of our Fords come from Australia but having said that there is a lot of USA classic cars imported from the west coast so should be over to find one here,cheers

EDIT...got one on Ebay for less that $10 free shipped,NO way I could get one in my country for that,great write-up Mark .

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 7 2017, 08:56 PM

One fail point I was told, but have no direct proof (anecdotal) was that a cheap Chinese relay had failed. That why I recommend the "Standard" brand of relay's.
I've never had a Standard relay fail other than the one that fell apart from severe corrosion. This was after 8 years of winter service on heavily salted roads.

Posted by: porschetub Aug 7 2017, 09:05 PM

Ha Ha funny ,Chinese ones are out there,really moved away cheap but not much cheaper ,rest assured got the Standard part ,thanks again.

Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Aug 7 2017, 09:11 PM

The tabs are available at O'Reilly's Auto Parts in packs of 10.

BWD part # CT948. Under $6

Posted by: 11tenths Jan 2 2018, 04:36 PM

Hey Mr. Henry- it worked!

Well, not at first... When I turned the key... nothing. Then I recalled you saying there's a 50/50 chance it would be either terminal (I had a two post version) so I switched the connection and "Viola"; success!



Much thanks- Harry

Posted by: 914Toy Jan 2 2018, 05:22 PM

Hi Mark,
Surprised to see that no ground wire is needed to be attached to the non used terminal in your application of the Ford relay switch?

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 2 2018, 07:05 PM

Because the metal bracket on the solenoid is bolted to the starter mounting stud, there's your ground for the solenoid.

Posted by: 914Toy Jan 2 2018, 10:27 PM

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 2 2018, 11:35 PM

Nice and functional, i have too many stories on not being able to start my old LE back in the day. This solenoid took the worry out. Thank you for the great write up. I have to do this when i get the engine back in

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2018, 10:09 AM

This drawing is mine from back in the early days of the 914world, then part of the club.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2018, 11:05 AM

Mark,

Would you recommend this setup for the Hi Torque mini-starters?

Posted by: HalfMoon Jan 3 2018, 11:12 AM

I actually did this on my Hi-torque about a year ago. The end of hot start problems and so easy even an old coot like me pulled it off.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 3 2018, 11:12 AM

Thanks, slowly gathering parts for the engine swap!

Posted by: jkb944t Jan 3 2018, 11:47 AM

Very nice write-up and I will add it to my to do list this winter. Thanks for all the effort.

Jeff B

Posted by: StratPlayer Jan 3 2018, 12:18 PM

My car has this mod.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 3 2018, 01:14 PM

You touched on this #2 but I'd like to add that the Ford relay was designed to operate in the engine compartment which becomes quite hot at times. Also, installed next to the old batteries that emitted some pretty corrosive vapors.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 3 2018, 01:24 PM

Actually you've got that bass ackwards, Slits was a proponent and offered the Ford relays to us for $6; or less if he liked you. IIRC, Cap't Crusty was in the camp of those who oppose it. One thing is for sure; the opposing Camp's numbers have dwindled in the past couple of years.

Posted by: Rand Jan 3 2018, 01:30 PM

I confess to having been in the last camp, and now a dwindler. I used to think it was dumb because, after all, the switch is NOT a high current circuit and the real relay is the starter solenoid! The real current happens at the starter solenoid where the big juice comes straight from a big cable to the battery. Some people seem to have the misunderstanding that all the current that cranks the engine runs through the starter switch. Which is pure ignorance.

After all that, I have to say while I don't think it's a necessary upgrade I have learned to respect it. A little less current going through the ignition switch is a good thing.

Mark's thread is a great contribution here.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 3 2018, 03:34 PM

Just food for thought, or should I say math

Vdrop = IR, basic voltage drop law.

12v at 8 amps on a 12 foot run with 22awg wire will see a voltage drop of 25.83%.
That 12v is down to 8.9v, border line for kicking the Bosch solenoid.
That's not counting the resistance of the connectors, fuse box, switch, age, heat, etc.

I don't know the actual length of the run or if that's the correct size wire, etc., etc.....but its a good enough example to show that a DC circuit has substantial losses even when new.

note same calculation with 20awg wire loss is 16.25%
I'd say obviously heat is a major contributor as this is more than often a "hot start issue".

Posted by: HalfMoon Jan 3 2018, 03:40 PM

All I know is this-
I'm v-8 converted and I use a hi torque starter.
My battery is mounted in the forward trunk with quite a long cable shot.
During summer I often would get the dreaded hot start no start problem.
After this mod, the problem was completely solved and I have never had a hot start no start again.
Whatever the fun arguments for and opposed are, I'm here to say this mod flat out works and I don't give a damn why, lol!

Posted by: Lucky9146 Jan 18 2018, 01:45 PM

Just an FYI

That I was about to order the Standard SS-588 on Amazon for $34.26 with free ship and then decided to google Standard Ignition SS-588 and a bunch of places came up with lesser prices.

Ordered from Walmart.com with free store pick up $21.40 and $1.66 Tax for a total l $23.06
Good deal and easy pick up. They would also ship to the house for about $5 still less than Amazon.

Posted by: HalfMoon Jan 25 2018, 05:42 PM

So I've run across a (self created) problem and I wonder if Mark might chime in for a solution?

Previously I had wired in a Ford relay on my sbc converted 914 with a standard alternator per Mark's diagram (an-noted below) as I had been experiencing the well known "hot start" problem.
The fix worked great!
Then I decided to add a track "kill switch" mounted where track workers can get to it in an emergency and therein lies my problem.
When I wire it up per the manufacturer's directions (my diagram below), it works great with one exception...my hot start problem has returned.
Anyone got any idea's?

Marks diagram (an-noted) with no kill switch. Hot start problem solved.


My diagram including addition of a kill switch. Hot start problem returns

Posted by: StarBear Aug 4 2018, 07:51 AM

Mark - Awesome thread and photos! I'm FINALLY getting around to doing this mod. Have you thought/decided about such a kit? would be interested. Otherwise, would merely wire-brushing the connections/connectors be sufficient for a car that otherwise is running/starting just fine? Thanks.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 4 2018, 10:24 AM

Right away I can see the battery wired wrong, battery + goes to the starter big post, in your configuration the alternator + wire also goes to the starter big post.

Kill switch shouldn't be wired into the starter, unless it's a battery disconnect, then it should be wired inline on the big battery cable. This needs to have no other wires between the battery + post and the disconnect in. All factory + wires should be after the disconnect out.

Only exception to above is some will run a seperate wire before the disconnect (direct to + post) for the radio clock.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 4 2018, 10:50 AM

This is how my '67 bug is wired.
Also note the metal bracket on the ford solenoid must be grounded.




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Posted by: North Coast Jim Aug 4 2018, 11:06 AM

Mark I had this "start problem" and found your thread on adding the Ford solenoid. Since adding this option this spring car starts on every try. Thanks for help.

Posted by: HalfMoon Aug 4 2018, 03:10 PM

Thanks for the reply-
Unfortunately, when I ran it with the Alt wire to the to the starter solenoid the kill switch failed to work and would not cut off the running car as it should. The only way I was able to make it work was to connect the Alt. wire to the switched side of the kill switch but then the hot start problem reappeared (either that or a new problem).

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 5 2018, 08:04 AM

You either still have something wired wrong or you damaged something from incorrect wiring. It doesn't matter if the alternator + wire goes to the big starter post or switched side on the disconnect. With the disconnect you don't want it to go direct to the battery as it defeats the purpose of the kill switch.

The disconnect, are you using one of the cheap plastic body china switches?
I only use the heavy duty metal body Moroso disconnect.

Posted by: HalfMoon Aug 5 2018, 08:14 AM

Heavy duty Moroso.

Posted by: StarBear Aug 12 2018, 09:43 AM

Mark; did/do you ever offer that kit? Not seen it, or is it available through some other source? Thanks!

Posted by: Spoke Aug 12 2018, 12:08 PM

Not sure how the internals of the kill switch work but the battery should never be removed from the alternator when the engine is running. Modern cars use high power zener diodes as rectifiers in the alternator to snub the inductive kick if the battery is removed from the alternator when running. Almost any electronics in the vehicle could be damaged by the inductive kick.

Automotive test specification ISO 7637-2 pulse 5 is a killer pulse. This pulse is 100V for about 1/2 a second and simulates disconnecting the battery from the alternator.

If you're looking to protect the car from being stolen, you might want to try putting a switch in series with the spark unit, ECU, or the fuel pump. On my 930, I have a tiny toggle switch in series with the fuel pump relay. You can push the car or crank it all day and it won't start.

Posted by: HalfMoon Aug 12 2018, 10:06 PM

It's a track side kill switch so corner workers can save my life in the event I'm unconscious (a standard op for cars used at the track-mine happens to also be streeted).
I have no ECU, but I like the idea of taking power from my dizzy to effectively kill the cars ability to continue to run in the event I can not turn off the key switch. That said, even if my alt was removed from the kill switch functionality, since it would then be relayed from the solenoid on the starter (in Marks diagram) would it not have the same effect as removing power from the alt while the car is running when the car is turned off with the key? Or does the relay prevent a spike from going back to the system?

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 13 2018, 05:54 AM

I wouldn't worry about the engine running after a crash, usually the engine will stall as the car was in gear, the fuel pump running is the bigger issue.
You can get a early 80's rabbit CIS fuel pump relay that runs off the tach signal, but it won't work off of an MSD. You could add a Ashlock Tachadapt to work the rabbit relay with an MSD.
Or you could run a simple DTDP relay off of the oil pressure switch.

If you need the part number of the rabbit relay I can find it for you.

Posted by: Mark Henry May 12 2019, 08:44 PM

The Ford solenoid just fixed the no start issue in my sons '82 Audi coupe with a new looking Bosch starter.
On FB early Audi group I was told to replace the starter, ignition switch and/or the wiring from the ignition switch, thru the fuse box and the relay box to the starter.
Sound familiar?

30 minutes and $20 later... problem solved.

Posted by: brcacti Oct 25 2019, 01:30 PM

Mark Henry, I'll come up to Canada and pay you to do it..................hehehe JUST kidding, looooong drive. Thanks to ALL who gave such valuable information.

Posted by: StarBear Oct 25 2019, 06:46 PM

Ditto to several above and kudos to MH. Did mine this Spring - started every time this past summer. Easy and cheap; used same wires and (cleaned) connectors, so fast, too.

Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 26 2019, 08:00 AM

I accept beer money

Posted by: oakdalecurtis Nov 18 2019, 04:19 PM

i checked with Mark on the actual relay he used, I wanted to buy one new, not a used wrecking yard one. Mark informed me that it is an 12 v, SW-3, B6AZ-11450-A, ordered one on Amazon for $20. The tab it came with allowed me to attach it directly to the starter bolt as recommended with no bending required. Here's a few pics of the finished install. My car starts so fast now it's scary!
Thanks Mark!

Posted by: brainf18 Feb 22 2020, 08:06 PM

Mark, I've been fighting hot start (i.e. no start) issues for some time and came across your thread. Followed your instructions and voilà problem solved for under $50! The only thing I wish I'd had is a custom bracket for mounting...but gently bending the tab and securing under the lower starter bolt works really well. Thanks so much for posting how to fix this! Much appreciated my friend!


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Posted by: Montreal914 Feb 22 2020, 09:47 PM

Nice car!
6" steel wheels?

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 23 2020, 07:45 AM

just did the upgrade to an Allis Chalmers forklift..#1

Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 23 2020, 09:40 AM

Ford used different mount brackets for different cars and trucks, that's why there's several styles of mounts. I prefer the bracket style shown at the start of this thread, but they can all be made to work.

Posted by: brainf18 Feb 25 2020, 07:39 AM

I get this question alot. I went for a low cost "vintage" look. Wheels are 5.5x15 from Sierra Madre ($60 each). Studs and lugs for mounting ($112). Tires are Achilles ATR 2's. Made by bridgestone they are great tires at a very low cost ($200 for a set of 4)


https://sierramadrecollection.com/steel-wheel-painted-4-lug-15-x-5-1-2-p19583.html

https://track-studs.myshopify.com/collections/m14x1-5/products/m14x1-5-acs-race-stud-65mm

https://track-studs.myshopify.com/collections/m14x1-5/products/porsche-pro-series-nuts

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Achilles-ATR-Sport-2-195-55R15-85-V-Tire/671051599?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&adid=22222222227286734149&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=345380585174&wl4=pla-710656488379&wl5=9014163&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=671051599&veh=sem& amp;gclid=CjwKCAiA1rPyBRAREiwA1UIy8KFV7qwlrESZ_LNSvc73Aun9FjBpkej25vJdkQMlFrePJp
c4HyJFuRoC54EQAvD_BwE

Posted by: pcdarks Jan 6 2021, 11:13 AM

Not to beat a dead horse but I found this solenoid. It's 12 volt and comes with a slide terminal to match the wire coming from the ignition switch.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/standard-ignition-5753/charging---starting-16772/starter-solenoid-11809/bdc3bda9b2c0/standard-ignition-3-terminal-starter-solenoid/ss743/5823008?q=Starter+Solenoid&pos=6[attachmentid=775600] [attachmentid=775600][attachmentid=775600]

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 6 2021, 11:32 AM

This thread should be in the Classic Forum.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 6 2021, 03:00 PM

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 6 2021, 03:16 PM

Not removed from here, shared in the classic.

Posted by: black73 Jan 6 2021, 03:40 PM

The Classic Forum should be a sticky at the top of the Garage, since that's where most of the traffic is. I forget the Classic forum exists sometimes.

Posted by: barefoot Jan 7 2021, 12:26 PM

You don't need the Ford or this rarther heavy duty solenoid, I used a such smaller one sourced from Amazon, works just fine as you're only carrying small amperage.

Posted by: Shivers Jan 29 2021, 09:49 AM

I got introduced to the hot start problem in 1982. In 92, ish, I got the hot start band aid sold at aa. And it worked. But I was concerned it would fail. But this is that on steroids. Had lots of old fords, never had to replace the relay. I started modifying my car in the 80's, so this would be a permanent fix to a poor design on a car driven in a warm/hot climate. I'm to old to be push starting a car by myself. And it had a habit of not starting when I was alone...On a hill...Parallel parked between two cars, parked too close. Thanks.

Posted by: 914Sixer Jan 29 2021, 10:03 AM

Another option is Bosch WR1 starter Kit. $27-$36 depending on where you shop


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 29 2021, 10:07 AM

Guess you didn't read the first post.
I have literally hundreds of these running around from bugs, buses, 914, etc. so you won't be changing my mind on the value of this very simple and cheap fix.



Common story, I've replaced dozens of the Bosch relay fix with my Ford Solenoid fix.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 29 2021, 10:16 AM

Cool tool that every 914 owner should (at minimum) have in their toolbox, a Channellock 909 terminal crimping tool. made in the USA, $30 CAD or about $20 USD.

Perfect crimp pliers for this project.
Known by some as "The Tooth", it makes a perfect dimple for excellent strong connections. I've misplaced my trusty old Panduit crimp pliers, so I bought the 909 and so far I like the crimps better than my old pliers

https://www.amazon.com/Channellock-909-Crimping-Tool-Cutter/dp/B00004SBDI/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jan 29 2021, 10:52 AM

I just use a IMI gear drive starter. No hot start problem since I put it on.

http://www.allzim.com/store/lightweight-gear-reduction-starter-911-912-914.html

No, it is not cheap. But I have been running the same IMI starter, without replacement , on my red 914 for years now. I originally put it on the 2.0L 4 cylinder to cure the hot start issue. I moved it to the 2.4L 911ST engine when I did the six conversion, and that same starter still spins the 4.0L monster motor with no issues.

I figure that starter will outlast the car. :cranky:

Posted by: Olympic 914 Jan 29 2021, 06:12 PM

(Deleted Irrelevant post... )

Posted by: Mark Henry Mar 29 2021, 02:40 PM

Right in my 1st post my opinion is this fix is CRAP.
Also said it's not a debate if you don't like it then move along.

It's not a "starter kit" it's a VW Ghia horn relay. Look at that jangle of wires you have to hack in! You have to install it in the engine bay ..are you going to use a self tapping screw.

I just ripped one out today and I'll be doing my fix thank you.




I also have an Hi-Torque in my /6
Starts my /6 good!!
I still have the Ford bit only because I didn't take it off when I put in the Hi-torque starter. I should try without, I bet the Hi-torque only needs 3-4 amps to kick in, much like what the Ford solenoid needs.
The problem is with the Bosch solenoid that needs a full 9 amps to kick in.

Posted by: LefthandRev Sep 5 2021, 04:13 PM

Did this today. Used a $17 solenoid from O'Reilly. https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/masterpro-ignition/masterpro-ignition-4-terminal-relay-solenoid/mpi0/2ss10?q=ford+starter+solenoid&pos=42

The 90 degree mounting plate makes it easy to attach to the starter mounting bolt. Ream out the 3 o'clock hole on the mounting plate. No need to bend anything.

Wire yellow to the "S" lug on the new solenoid/relay.

Female blade wire on the 9 o'clock lug, if "S" is noon. 14" wire.
Eyelet terminal mounts to the 3 o'clock lug. 12" wire.

Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 6 2021, 06:29 AM

Just had my first no start in ages, had to get a push.

Tested my ford solenoid, no problem there, starter kicked right in.
Cleaned a few grounds...nope.
I was about to dive into my ignition switch, then decided to check my seat belt interlock under the passenger seat. I had disabled it years ago by just pulling one of the relays, which 20 years ago was SOP.
I did a quick thread search (thanks Clay), pulled and connected the two big yellow wires and I was back in business.

Moral is you still have to check all your connections...but get the easy stuff out of the way first.