http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=309222&view=findpost&p=2517111
I've been rewiring my car for the last few weeks and part of that was replacing the factory fuse panel with one that uses modern fuse from JWest Engineering. I was unhappy with the existing relay sockets that I found. As a result of that, I designed and printed a monolithic fuse socket for all the relays, buzzer, and flasher unit.
After mounting it to the fuse panel. The buzzer is a Hella H35394001. The horn, blower, and fog relays are Hella 933332051. The flasher unit is a Hella 009492101. The head light relay is a modern reproduction of the VW one. Still waiting on the flasher unit to ship.
I'll be posting the STL files, Bill of Materials, and instructions after I've worked out a few kinks. I would love any feedback or suggestions on improvements.
That looks great! How much would you charge to make one or a couple? I would like to buy. Thanks, mark
I am also interested.
Love it. I'd be down for one too. I've got the JWest fuse block and solid state relays in the engine bay... this would complete the trifecta!
Please let me know if you get to making more.
Very cool! Great idea as well. I'm quite interested; the old relays with their worn sockets always bothered me.
If you don't mind sharing-material and printer? The surface finish is better than any SLA machine I've seen and almost every SLS.
Nice innovation
Heck yeah! Nice work!
Thanks for posting! As the round relays are getting more expensive, a cheap, modern alternative would be great. I love seeing this new technology applied to older cars.
This is great. Definitely interested in one.
Hi EvenO,
As the others have noted below....I would take one in a heart beat!
I too have installed my JWest Fuse Panel in as well.....those old relays are a nightmare...I still have not figured out how to get them to fit in the panel....your set up would be fantastic. Regards, Grant
After a few weeks of redesign, I have a relay solution that i'm happy with. Not only is it more compact, it's modular so i can be reused for other applications. Not sure if I'm going to have the resource to produce these in quantity, but i'm looking into the possibility. I would love any feedback or suggestions on improvements.
What does the side facing the cabin floor look like?
That's cool, I would be interested in one too
Beautiful and functional!
Put me on the list!
Any chance of turning your attention to the engine compartment relay board?
Chester
I generally have concerns about the so-called 'upgraded' panels because many have proven to be problematic discovered only after a short amount of use. This set-up seems to have some positives.
The custom relay mounting base seems well done and using the new relays and fuses is commendable.
Don't like the cheapo side mount fuseblocks because attaching the chassis harness wiring stresses the wiring- using the flag terminals may address the tight fit but that means that all the original terminals need replacement.
PLEASE do not promote using those cheesy insulated terminals. Locate some solid brass double barrel terminals in the appropriate wire gauges as needed without the plastic insulator - because they are not a good long term solution.
If you don't want to be a manufacture then license it to 914rubber for a % This could be a several thousand unit order when promoted.
The main issues I see are that:
1. The new fuse block mount on another version (not yours) had a metal strap that would short against the power terminal block on the 1970-72 cars.
2. The new stress put on the wiring to wire terminal juncture because of the side terminal locations rather than the original rear mount locations at the fusepanel. The ties organizing the wiring at the fuseblock needs to be loosened up or removed to give enough slack to connect the wires to their new side mount location. Stress on the wires over time will cause the wiring to fail at that stress point.
3. The new fuseblocks do not have the bussed together lugs that the factory fuseblocks do, so makeshift additional terminal busses are needed or the circuitry is altered to accommodate, making the factory wiring schematic useless for troubleshooting.
4. How well made are the new fuse blocks? The ones I have seen are of poor quality relative to the bakelite shell and solid brass fuse terminals of the factory original fuse blocks.
People have been replacing the original fuse blocks to use the new style fuses and because some say that they repeatedly kick out the fuses when getting in/out of the car. In 40 years of driving 914s, I have never had any issues with the original fuse blocks. I don't see any benefit to change the fuse block, personally.
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Any updates. I'm still interested. Thanks, mark
That is the best conversion I have seen. I hope you don't drop the project. Jeff offered some objective criticism which should help make this the perfect upgrade.
I( agree with Jeff about the flag connectors. Can you simply turn the fuse block around and face the spades to the rear? Looks like that would be straight forward move and a solution to the problem.
I've just gotten my car going again this weekend, and have some changes and improvements that can be made. The board worked, but the current design had some problems during installation, and isn't suitable as a drop in replacement. I have plans for the next iteration that will hopefully be good enough to see the light of day on another 914. Thanks for the patience and constructive input, much appreciated.
Hey Evan, I am actually into this right now and have been having a heck of a time to get my existing relays should back into the holes in the J West panel...your engineering and initiative would be just the ticket!
I see that after going through a few iterations you continue to develop it. Please put me on your list of future "me too" people.
Regards, Grant
I have to agree with Jeff Bowlsby on the after market fuse panels.
I'm doing a 914-6 conversion on my 1971 914-4 and I'm using an NOS 1971 chassis wiring harness.
I've also got a JWest aftermarket fuse panel.
The way this panel works is that the wires on the "inlet" and "outlet" sides of the fuse come in on opposite sides of the panel.
Where in the factory panel, the "inlet" and "outlet" wires come in on the same side of the fuse panel.
THAT IS A BIG DIFFERENCE WHEN IT COMES TO PLUGGING ALL THESE WIRES IN.
I'm seeing that there is a lot of stress on the connectors with the JWest panel and the main harness kind of straddles the panel vs being in behind the panel with the factory setup.
So I've decided to ditch the JWest with the new style fuse in lieu of the old fashioned factory style.
I can just tell the factory will be a much better setup.
Obviously the factory knew what it was doing.
This gives you an idea.
On the factory fuse panel, both the incoming and outgoing wires come from approximately the same direction from the main wiring bundle.
(A) On the after market panels, the incoming wires must loop around to the backside of the connection block.
It seems like this would put a lot of stress on the wire/connector on that side of connection block.
These incoming wires are just not long enough coming out of the main wiring bundle to make the journey relatively stress free.
(B) One option is to move the main wiring bundle such that it straddles the connection block, but again the direction change that both the incoming and outgoing wires make from the main wiring bundle to the connection block is not idea.
In the end, I've decided to stick with my 40 year old factory fuse block design and live with archaic fuse technology.
Thanks for the input everyone. I have a drastically different approach to the problem than my original design. It should end up being a much better permanent solution as well as lowering the overall cost. I'm also working on replacing the existing fuse block as well with one better suited to the cable organization. I should have a couple units ready to test in a couple weeks if anyone wants to be a guinea pig.
It's been a few weeks and the first prototype for version 3 are complete. First some background on why version 3 is so drastically different. Between the combination headlight relay, buzzer and other relays, the cost for just the relays was easily over $100. The LED flasher unit from Hella took over 3 months from when I first ordered it to when it arrived. Also the sheer size of the relays and its mount weren't great for placement or installation.
Version 3 consists of a completely custom solution for all the components needed to run a 914. The combination relay, flasher and buzzer are all replicated using discrete logic and solid state relays. The relays are rated for 60 volts and up to 40A peak and 32A continuous. Best part of the this design is that even at a single unit it only costs about $70.
The relay board assembly is designed fit with its heatsink to the JWest fuse panel.
Since I heard a lot of complaints about the JWest panel, I thought I would take a stab at the problem. The terminals emulate the factory panel, with the correct terminals bused together, and it includes the tilt toward the front of the car. It uses standard ATO fuses. This piece would replace the factory fuse block and integrates my new solid state relay solution. A 1.5mm laser etched plate would sit on the front of the fuse block and provide markings and indication. I didn't get that done in time, but it's not critical.
I hope this version will be the one to makes it to production. Feedback, improvements, and comments are appreciated. The first couple units are going to be stress tested over the next couple of weeks to validate the design.
Very nice, Evan. With the solid-state relays you've employed, will this cure the load issue when running LED turn signals?
Also, this unit is all that's needed to supplant the J-West or Engman fuse blocks and relay unit(s)?
If you're still looking for guinea pigs ... I'm your huckleberry
That's pretty freakin' awesome.
With Jerry's LED lights, Timothy's LED gauges and Evan's relay panel, there's some real nifty stuff available these days
Thought of something...
While I love the wire color printed on the board, I thought some of the wire colors changed on different years. It may be better to simply label each connection with the original relay pin number (30, 85, 86, 87, 87a). If I were troubleshooting a car with that board installed and I wouldn't want to have to pull out and analyze the wiring diagram to translate wire colors to pin number and function.
On the fuse board, it would be prudent to add either a couple extra constant power connections and a couple switched power connections, OR add a couple extra fuses for add-ons.
Yes please!
I.m in after doing my latest "gremlin" project on my car.
... All of the above mentioned items:
Fuse position # ... 1 ~
Fuse rating for each position
Function symbol for each fuse position would be nice too
A couple extra fuse slots labeled 'AUX'
Yes different MY 914s have different fusepanel and relay circuitry. Fuse amperages and layouts changes too.
KISS. Just number the fuses 1-12 just like the factory schematics. someone else can figure out what goes where for the different years.
Another question, how critical is the angle on the fuse panel in relation to the harness bundle? Would removing the tilt negatively affect strain relief on the harness? Optimizing the design for injection molding with that angle is proving to be a pain and removing that tilt would solve many issues. Thanks.
Beautiful design. Looks really well thought out. Lots of good feedback from the guys too.
One question on the placement of SSR U6 for the low beam: Why is it turned around WRT to the other SSRs? With it's positioning, its exposed pad is not against the heatsink. Was this done for isolation? What is the theta-JC from junction to the EP versus junction to top of case?
I amm pretty sure - not positive - that the slant is to enable a better viewing angle of the fuses where it is mounted. As long as the terminals are oriented normal to the back of fuse panel there is no unusual strain condition at each terminal
Wondering...what is intended for a fuse panel cover? The stock cover indicates the functions of each fuse.
Wow cant believe I missed this thread.
Extremely nice work and commend your willingness to accept & incorporate the feedback !!!
Put me on the list~
Impressive!
Want want want want want.
Seriously. I want this.
Zach
"3. The new fuseblocks do not have the bussed together lugs that the factory fuseblocks do, so makeshift additional terminal busses are needed or the circuitry is altered to accommodate, making the factory wiring schematic useless for troubleshooting."
This statement is not true. Engman had a flaw in his process of doing it, from what I understand, but did have it. Maybe he sold some without it? Mine have always been bussed just like factory and it is the most difficult part of manufacturing these, since they have to be fully disassembled and modified internally.
But irrelevant if this makes it into production. I am all for a better design, as I am not willing to put in the time to design a fuse box from scratch and the connection positioning is not optimal for the stock harness to bend around to reach. I keep it going since there is nothing better on the market.
Let me know when this makes it to retail sale and I'll push customers to it (or resell on my site if that is of interest to you).
Update 8/26/2017
Been on vacation for the last couple weeks so not much progress. I did get around to doing a thermal test of the relay board.
Here's a picture of the test setup.
A 12V 600W power supply provides the juice to drive current through the solid state relays. Three 1Ω 200W resistors provide the load for the test. The fog, air fan, and low beam relays were chosen to as the test subjects since they are the high current draw items. The resistors actually measured about 1.2Ω so with 12V it should provide 10A through each of the relays. Left it running for about 20 minutes to reach steady state.
The max measured temperature was about 91°F, 15°F above ambient. Looks like the heatsink is doing its job correctly. The load resistors did get quite toasty during the test run.
With 30A passing through the PCB and the relays, there doesn't seem to by any issues. With these results I'll get to work with Rev B and figuring out how to mass produce these at a reasonable cost.
Any updates on this? I'm a few months away from tackling the electrical portions of my restoration and would love to commit to a fuse block solution.
This is a very cool project.. I would be interested.
I'm glad there are people in this world who are smart enough to know this stuff.
I have my own skill set, and I'm really good at Jeopardy, but thank you for making me feel like a complete nincompoop.
Can't believe I miss this one too.
Quick question. Will these work with Spoke's LED turn-signals?
If so, this would definitely be something I'd be interested in too.
I can't say I totally followed everything that's been said on this thread, but it sounds like an awesome upgrade!
Would it be possible to add some extra connections for auxiliary items that weren't on the stock car? For example, my car has at least two extra connections (electric water pump and electric fuel pump, maybe more but I can't recall offhand), and they are just tied in via split spade connectors, which is horrible. Would love to have a proper spot on the fuse panel for them.
I'm thinking maybe 2 or 4 extra fused connections that people can use for whatever?
Does this even make sense? Keep in mind that I don't know anything about electronics...
Bump to encourage this project again. Getting closer to wiring the car, and with no one currently offering replacement fuseblocks I may need to grab an old one - really want something modern.
Very nice detail in the revisions along the way. I judge it to be an excellent upgrade and support the addition of multiple "unused" fuses in the offering. When will this setup be to market? I'm all in.
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Amazing and passionate work! I’m in for at least one, as long as Jeff B. is ok with me connecting his harness to it
...really great work!
I am in on this one - nice work.
Okay. Definitely in for one once released.
For the Subi crowd, 4 extra fused slots would be a great mod2. That would cover our electric fans, water pump, and fuel pump plus one.
Rob
Put me on the list please..
Bumping an older thread. I still want this!
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