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Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 18 2017, 02:49 PM

Hi All,

Sad day.. my barn when up in flames Tuesday night and burnt with the ferocity of an erupting volcano. The two structural steel I-beams holding up the roof collapsed and looked like wet noodles (16" tall by 6" wide by 25' long....)

I haven't gotten closer than 20' from the car as the Claims guy wants an untouched scene before he shows up. My dad's Bridgeport Mill had the Aluminum Motor covers melted off. The newly rebuilt transaxle that I hadn't even filled with oil yet is somewhere under a smoldering pile of plywood and who knows the engine's fate which I had out on a dolly. The engine cart I had a small block chevy on folded in half. My son's Olympic weight set is still on the power rack with the two 45lb plates sagging at 45 degrees from horizontal looking like some deranged strongman went crazy...

Then the bomb dropped.. I had never thought that my registered as non-operational car still needed insurance.... not covered...... yep I'm a dummy...

Sorry 4762902521 I let you down..... you had a pretty good life. Born in Germany, shipped to Carlsen Porsche Audi in S.F. Bay Area's "South Bay". spent your whole life nearby in decent weather.. only a couple rust spots under the battery and base of windshield.... so much for my "retirement project" of restoring her...

RIP "Sunflower".

Posted by: poorsche914 May 18 2017, 02:55 PM

Posted by: SirAndy May 18 2017, 02:59 PM

Posted by: 7TPorsh May 18 2017, 03:00 PM

Sorry to hear....not sure if I want to see pics.

Posted by: Big Len May 18 2017, 03:06 PM

So the barn and it's contents were not insured under your homeowner's policy?

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 18 2017, 03:17 PM

Everything but CARS.... They specifically stated that all cars must be insured whether operation or non operational.. same for RVs etc..

But tractors would be covered.... crap!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 18 2017, 03:18 PM

I haven't snapped any "after" pics.. but here's what the fireman photographed...

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/7003712-181/penngrove-barn-fire-destroys-two

Posted by: Edward Blume May 18 2017, 03:22 PM

Don't give up on your dreams. When you get back on your feet look for another car and move forward.

Posted by: Krieger May 18 2017, 03:23 PM

Oh no...

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 18 2017, 03:30 PM

Yea but now a days.. these cars cost REAL money.. not the monopoly money you used be able to pick them up for (in good shape)...

Posted by: 76-914 May 18 2017, 03:32 PM

Aww man, sorry for your loss.

Posted by: Dion May 18 2017, 03:37 PM

Brian that's terrible. Sorry to hear of your troubles. They'll be good news somewhere
in that mess. Perseverance. Good luck.

Posted by: 7TPorsh May 18 2017, 03:39 PM

Put a Porsche emblem on the tractor and say that was a Porsche too! Sorry again...

Posted by: Cairo94507 May 18 2017, 03:47 PM

OMG! I am so sorry to hear that. I hope you come out of that mess OK.

Posted by: burton73 May 18 2017, 04:07 PM

So sorry you had a terrible fire and lost both cars.

I had a fire in my factory back in 1978 and burned every thing up. It is very sad to see what happens in a fire to metal. My friend made a suggestion to me back then and you may want to ck into this to see what you think but a fire adjuster working for you getting paid a small part of the clam after you get paid can get you the maximum amount for your loss.

Some items that I thought where worth nothing ended up being very valuable and the amount that we paid the adjuster was much less that he got back for us. On top of that you are not in a great place emotionally and it is hard to do all the paperwork you may need to do. I remember going through the scene with this guy and picking up each piece and he would enter it in his book and come up with a value. He had a piece of wire and it was all that was left of a wall clock and I never would have remembered it and he got me back what a new unit would cost. That multiplied by lots of items can add up to a great deal of money for you and hopefully make you whole.
In my fire I lost an Alfa Romeo Duetto with racing engine and lots of memories that cannot be replaced.

Bob B

Posted by: dakotaewing May 18 2017, 04:31 PM

Brian,

The car not being covered is typical for all policies, however,
some polices will cover parts to the car as personal property under the terms
of the policy, depending on the carrier.
Some carriers have set a limit as to how much in car parts they will cover.
Do not expect anything attached the car to be covered.
Your policy will have a limit for the building, and a separate limit for the contents in the building.
The Contents are referred to as schedule C,
and the building as schedule B.
Find out what your policy limits are, and get a good idea of what the carrier
is going to offer you prior to hiring a public adjuster (PA),
as suggested in the comment above.
If you are going to max out the policy limits,
there is no point in giving some of it to a PA.

Let me or Rick know if you have any questions, as we work in the biz -

Good Luck -

Posted by: sixaddict May 18 2017, 04:31 PM

I know this is a horse is out of the barn resolution but...
I have a couple of 6s that are in progress of restoration. Hagerty will cover them very reasonably at a stated value .....Just paid the premium for two which was $235 for the year. It can grow as progress occurs.
Like I said ...the horse is gone but for those with bones in the garage it gives you protection at least for your investment !
Sorry.

Posted by: Edward Blume May 18 2017, 04:31 PM

but miracles can happen if you let people help you.

Besides, it may be a blessing in disguise. How were you planning to get a SBC 914 to pass smog in CA?

Posted by: Coondog May 18 2017, 05:00 PM

I was assigned to our departments Fire investigation unit for many years. The one thing I learned is you need to set down and make a list of everything that was in the garage to include 914 items that were not in the car. Go ahead and embellish the condition and value, when things are destroyed in a fire it's pretty hard for a insurance adjuster to argue its condition. Remember there job is to play you the lowest amount while your job is to get the highest return.

It's to bad that Raby motor on the cart got melted in the fire..........

Posted by: Mueller May 18 2017, 05:19 PM

Holy crap, so sorry to hear about this Brian.

Posted by: dakotaewing May 18 2017, 06:26 PM

Brian, my apologizes in advance.
The best piece of unsolicited advice I can give you is to expect this loss to take several months to resolve. It won't happen in 2 weeks, or a month.
More like 4-12 months, depending on how complete of an inventory you can provide the insurance adjuster, and if you can provide photos of the barn, and any of its contents prior to the fire.
The more documentation you provide, including inventory lists with age, and price, as well as photos will immensely help the adjusters involved.

Coon,
I, and others in the insurance biz take personal offense to such statements.
I have been an adjuster 7 years, worked for over a dozen different carriers, and NEVER have been told or instructed to pay the least amount possible.
It has always been pay what is owed, not less. If there is a question regarding what is owed on the adjusters side, and a reasonable investigation cannot make a determination,
usually more is paid than what appears to be reasonable.
Most adjusters, and most carriers seek a way to pay an insured all they are owed under the coverages on the policy.
There are a few bad apples, and that has to do with the carrier, more than the people who have the unfortunate luck of working for them.
The problem typically lies when a party expects to be put in a much better position than prior to the loss, or the insured / claimant overstates the obvious for financial gain.
Want to be reimbursed for the new $23K motor on the stand?
No problem, just provide proof of payment.
Paid cash? Really? No bank statements. Really?
That would not be considered reasonable... in other words -

I digress.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 18 2017, 06:55 PM

Brian
Sorry for your loss....
Rory

Posted by: whitetwinturbo May 18 2017, 07:18 PM

Posted by: 914-300Hemi May 18 2017, 09:39 PM

Sorry for your loss Brian.

What was the cause of the fire?

Posted by: Shadowfax May 19 2017, 07:51 AM

Man, that stinks.

Posted by: N_Jay May 19 2017, 08:33 AM

Sorry for your loss.
The only advice I have for the claim is to be NICE and to be FIRM, and to be NICE AND FIRM.

The adjuster is not getting a bonus for paying you less. He is human and deals with lots of AH clients, so if you are the NICE one you are making his job of helping you easier.

That said, be firm on your values. You have paid insurance for years, and there is no reason not to get a fair settlement.

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 09:34 AM

I was thinking about that since I had the engine and trans-axle pulled.. I can't find the trans at this point, but here is the engine:


Update.. Transaxle was found.. or rather puddle of magnesium and the ring+pinion & mainshaft.....

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 10:00 AM

Thanks to everyone for the sentiments and advice. Clearly nobody should become an expert on dealing with a situation like this.

I feel badly that there are measures I could have taken more seriously to prevent this fire but it was an accident.

Most of our "family stuff" is in the house and is fine.

I'm oddly feeling liberated. 20 years ago I dreamed of having a shop and space and time to take the 914 completely apart and restore it.

Having all my tools wiped out and the car itself is sort of like hitting a giant reset button on your life... I don't feel "obligated" anymore.. I don't HAVE to follow through.

Same deal with my love of wooden boats. Almost went to wooden boat building school
in New England right out of high school but Dad read me the riot act about having no income in a non-existent market and I'd better marry somebody with great income/benefits....... Anyhow, I had all the space, tools, and had been ferreting away choice lumber and bronze hardware (dumpster diving at boatyard) and was eventually going to start teaching the skills I've been developing since I was 15.

I CAN still follow through, but I don't HAVE to.. if you know what I mean.. it is an interesting time in my life.

Here is some more carnage...





The heat was unbelievable..... These I-beams were 3/8" thick by 6" wide and 16" tall in the web x 25' long... noodles...

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 10:06 AM

Dad's mill "before"....





Lathe...



Barn...








But it's all just STUFF that can be replaced.... .....NEXT!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 10:13 AM

Thanks for that reminder.. so far they've been very pleasant. I'm betting that State Farm bases their customer service centers in Georgia for a very clever reason.. no one can resist a pleasant polite southern accent....

My wife is also a GENIUS! She insured us not only for the standard depreciated value of items lost.. but we were also paying for the "Replacement Cost Coverage".. they explained that they will pay in two checks (State Farm). The first is the depreciated value of the item, the second will be the difference it takes to buy a new version so we are made 'whole'. The main obstacle I see is gathering evidence that I HAD all these items. My manuals for all my power tools are in the same binder, but likely consumed in the fire.. however I have tons of photos of stuff I've made/built, etc. which might work to convince an adjuster that I had to own the tool to do this....

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 10:18 AM

I believed from the beginning this would take at least a year to figure out. I'd like to bulldoze the wreckage ASAP to a clean slab and am getting quotes so we are ready to go when its appropriate.

I've taken lots of photos of projects built with the tools, and there may be the odd chance it's in the background. I've already found my routers.. (well, its the motor rotors that remain.. all the aluminum/magnesium must have burnt)

There's is no mistaking the Milling Machine and Lathe, etc.

I'll check in if I start encountering too much friction if you don't mind.

Thanks for the advice!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 19 2017, 10:22 AM

That small block was out of the 96 Z28 that was roasted also. My brother in law drove it for 90K miles and flattened a cam, then stored it for 12 years. He gave it to my 17 year old and that block is freshly back from the machine shop. Of course, he/we did not have the non-op car insured.


I think if I ever pick up the 914 habit again, I'd go with a high winding Subie.. I love the light weight feel of low powered cars and wringing their necks to make them handle....

Posted by: dakotaewing May 19 2017, 02:24 PM

Brian,

Don't do anything regarding the site until the adjuster has inspected the site physically,
And you have it in writing (usually email) that you can start the clean up. To do so prior will jeopardize your claim. Your policy clearly states the carrier reserves the right to inspect the loss, and there is no stated timeframe in the policy language when that has to occur. Try to have as much documentation regarding the contents at the time of that inspection, showing the damaged remnants of those objects if possible. This will expedite handling.

Posted by: Mueller May 19 2017, 02:28 PM

Brian,

I know I am a few hours away, but if you need to borrow a mill or lathe or welding equipment you are free to come down and spend the day making chips or whatever you need to do.

So glad you are insured!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 24 2017, 10:35 AM

Well I found the Trans-axle yesterday.. or rather the clutch yoke and the ring-gear assembly. Entire housing either melted away, or burnt. The trans-axle was on a bench near stack of lumber (more fuel). It had just been rebuilt after my son and I attended the last Dr Evil Clinic in Sonoma.

Any chance the guts of the Trans-axle are re-useable? Aluminum melts at 1200F. A fire hose may have doused this or it just cooled slowly.. no way of knowing.

Also, engine may be salvageable. Alternator burnt, but the sheet-metal may have protected the cylinder heads (engine was on the floor on a cart). Oil still in crankcase and is still clean so it didn't cook.

Posted by: JmuRiz May 24 2017, 10:40 AM

Ouch, this thread is tough to read isn't it?

Maybe I need to up my coverage, even though my car is still in parts to-be put together in my garage.

Posted by: tygaboy May 24 2017, 11:03 AM

And I'm right here in Petaluma, if I can help w/anything.
Chris

Posted by: tygaboy May 24 2017, 11:06 AM

Sorry double post... apparently I really wanted you to know we're here for you!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 24 2017, 11:31 AM

Thank Chris.

Based on what the demolition contractors quote, I may be taking up Kevin O.s offer to rent a couple of 40 yard dumpsters and loaders and scrape the barn ourselves.

I'll let you know (thanks for offer).. comfortable driving a Bobcat?

We'll not remove anything until the personal property question is settled so I can at least point to a pile of ooze and say "yes, that was my brand spanking new hammer drill.. used once...".. etc.....

I just found my cache of '76 914 and 912e specific smog gear I'd been collecting from people who had no use for it. Might be salvageable.

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 24 2017, 11:31 AM

Make sure the car is fully insured, even though it is not-operational

Posted by: BuddyV May 24 2017, 04:39 PM

Brian - your post and your experience will help a lot of members. Thank you for being so honest about your experience.

I am considering placing my car on non-op for a year, and this is a good reminder to INSURE THE NON-OP VEHICLE..... especially since the prices have been rising.

Good luck to you...... I am in Santa Rosa.

Cheers.

Posted by: green914 May 24 2017, 08:44 PM

OUCH!

Posted by: flmont May 24 2017, 10:43 PM

Man that blow's,..I hope it works out quickly for you,..!!

Posted by: Mark Henry May 25 2017, 06:39 AM

Sorry to see this.

I'm paranoid of fire , why my shop is steel sided both inside and out, direct vent gas heat (no open flame) over kill on all my circuits (20amp outlets), separate fuel shed, fully insured, etc.

Posted by: 76-914 May 25 2017, 08:08 AM

Insurance! When I placed m 73 on non-op I kept the insurance in force. Hagerty rep pointed out I was only saving about $130 a year. Luckily I didn't need it but had I not.......it would have bit me in the arse. PS, use wooden beams next time. Insurance is less $$$. Found that out when I rented a warehouse in Austin years ago. I was told that wood actually holds up longer than steel in a fire.

Posted by: dcheek May 25 2017, 08:21 AM

Sorry for you loss, and all the hassle involved in getting back to normal.

Everybody hates to pay for insurance until something like this happens then, you are patting yourself on the back that you have it. Bummer about the 914. There's still a chance to jump back in though, before prices really get out of hand.

Good luck. Time will heal all.

Dave

Posted by: Perry Kiehl May 25 2017, 09:35 AM

Man o man, you have my condolences Brian. That's tough to look at, I can only imagine how difficult this must be. Cliche' I know, but at least no one died or got physically hurt. Not to diminish the emotional trauma in anyway, which will take some time to get over. So sorry.

Posted by: Edward Blume May 25 2017, 09:44 AM

Custom boat building! How cool is that?

I used to build kayaks up in the PNW. I'm thinking seriously about building a couple extra using my existing kayak as a shape.

Just all those other darn projects!

Bury the ashes, dump the junk, collect your check and get on with it. No life and no song can be left unfinished.

Posted by: Brian Mifsud May 25 2017, 09:56 AM

The BEST people I've EVER known via the web have been right here... I gotta say (starting back with Rennlist, then 914club-morphing-to-world).

Of all the other forums I've puttered around with for so many years: (Woodenboat.com, practicalmachinist.com, yesterdaystractors.com, forums.corral.net/forums, boatdesign.net)

You guys speak the truth. Kindness abounds, the generosity I've seen so many times in helping each other is un-rivaled.

I guess I really first noticed it when all the scandal-stuff died down and a soldier needed help getting his car moved, and tons of people pitched in and payed for his 914 to go cross country. You guys have soul.

For that reason ALONE.. I'm (Eventually) gonna go find me another flexi flyer so I can keep participating!

Thanks for the boost guys!

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 03:46 PM

Hello All,
Well it's been some time since I had a 914. That's all been sorted.. in review.. this happened in May 2017....



A big mess.. all tools, cars, materials, etc down the drain.. had to clean it all up myself as we were under insured....




The fire insurance WAS enough to buy materials and self-build.. so that was my only choice...

Legacy Post and Beam in Nebraska designed and built the "Kit".

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 03:53 PM

Old foundation was potentially fire damaged, and not up to current seismic requirements (S.F. Bay Area).. so had to have Structural Engineer design and stamp foundation..



New footings and Piers here after I pulled the forms (poured by pros). Ties into old one, so really is a "Double" foundation.. very strong..

Then the big rig show up and it's game time to unload..

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 03:54 PM

Precut.. but assembly needed...

Posted by: jd74914 Dec 2 2019, 03:56 PM

Wow, glad to see stuff coming back together.

How big is the new barn? Based on my post and beam barn it looks 40' square-ish? Very pretty design!

Did insurance do anything to make you whole regarding the machinery?

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 03:59 PM

Bolt parts together...



Rent Telehandler and set them up.. then install literally tons of lumber to tie them all together (all of last Spring and Summer.. mainly with my sons and neighbor).

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 04:01 PM

and.. here we are on Thanksgiving..



Already getting ahead of myself nosing around at 914's again... naughty naughty...

Posted by: burton73 Dec 2 2019, 04:17 PM

Hi Brian,

Welcome back! Good to see that you got the fire damage worked out.

Fire is a bitch. My plastic business burned up in 1978 took down the full building. I came back better than ever but lost a lot of memories I had in storage and a Alfa Romeo Duetto with a fresh race engine. I got my first 914 just after that


Bob B

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 05:17 PM

about 44' square including overhangs.

What seems to be the 'Standard' is that you end up getting about 22% of the "new" purchase price on average. For "new" items (like building materials I had stored there) I got 100% of replacement value.
For used items, you have to catalog them, rate their condition, then research the "new" replacement value. They cut you a check averaging about 20% of new.

IF you go out and buy that replacement item, and mail the receipt back to the insurer, they state that they will pay you the difference to "make you whole". The process of cataloging "everything" is so draining.. there's new way I want to reopen that wound for a couple dozen tools...

I've been buying new what i need to build the barn (with a few good finds on Craigs for pennies on dollar). What pisses me off ALL the American brands are Chinese made now.. so my "replacement" isn't....

Milwaukee Hole Shooter
Milwaukee Drill Bits
Skill Drill
Skill Saw
Craftsman.. you CAN'T find anything BUT Chinese... the retail pricing is similar to what I paid new.. but the Quality....

I have found that BOSCH is generally European, or non-China-Asian made.. this has become my "go to" brand for things I have to buy new.. otherwise I scrub Craigs for old American or Japanese made.. but I'll NEVER amass the tools I had before...

It's funny, today, my wife just sent me an ad for old house windows in beautiful shape. I asked her "What project do you have in mind?".. she said.. "Oh, none, I just remembered you like to make things out of old stuff"...

After thanking her I ended with "that was old Junk Collecting Brian"... "New rising-from-the-ashes-Brian" will ONLY buy or acquire things that:
1) I'm going to use immediately
2) Only as much of a material as I need for the job

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 2 2019, 05:18 PM

It CERTAINLY helps you clarify your priorities...

Posted by: Cairo94507 Dec 2 2019, 06:12 PM

Wow- that is a great looking "barn" you will have there. Glad to see it coming together after the fire. Wishing you the best.

Posted by: infraredcalvin Dec 2 2019, 10:43 PM

Wishing you good fortune with the new build. I know this is not the same, but we had a theft just after moving into my new house. Insurance co replaced everything... that I could remember, but several years later I found myself looking for that one specific tool... only find that I had forgotten I had it before the theft and never replaced it... Happened several times...

Posted by: partwerks Dec 2 2019, 10:44 PM

Posted by: JOEPROPER Dec 3 2019, 07:50 AM

Good luck with that barn build Brian. The fact that you're doing it yourself shows real character and drive. This sad story that you're fighting thru is inspiring and makes you realize that you can come back from great losses and if need be, you do it yourself. If I were on that side of the country, I'd come over and help. Looks like your focus is in the right place and a lot of the heavy lifting is done. I look forward to seeing this build come together. Good luck!

Posted by: ValcoOscar Dec 3 2019, 10:50 AM

Brian-

Wishing you and your family a warm holiday season!!!! It's been cold down here.

I just shipped you a care package...just because

Oscar

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 3 2019, 11:55 AM

Wow Oscar... as I've mentioned before.. there are NO forums out there where people are KINDER than 914 World!

My favorite example.. years ago a G.I. had to move but could not afford to ship his 914.. so a bunch of Forum members kicked in and moved his car for him...

The fellowship (and my favorite) - horrible sense of humor - maintained here make this the BEST PLACE EVER!!!!

Thanks Again..

Brian

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 3 2019, 11:59 AM

The "emotions" only kick in when I wish I still had Dad's Bridgeport Mill, Enco Lathe...
and my Grandfathers.

I had to laugh when I was going through the store room at my wife's Yoga Studio... I'm come to discover she swiped my first hammer.. There is was, the first tool I bought, untouched.. talk about starting from scratch.

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Dec 3 2019, 12:29 PM

Hi Joe,

I can't complain. This fire happened in May 2017 during very high weird winds coming from the East instead of the Ocean. I basically caused it through stupidity so feel like a total idiot for allowing a hazard to happen. But I only lost my barn, and the possessions
inside. My kids lost old school work, toys, some family photos, etc.

Part of what drove me to "fix" it was the guilt of letting it happen.

But fast forward five months, and the high weird winds returned in October 2017 happened in Sonoma and Napa counties. An electrical fault somewhere in the system sparked it all and 80+ people lost their lives.

I had the LUXURY of sleeping in my own bed, and filling out Insurance Company Personal Property spreadsheets at my own computer in my own kitchen. I can't imagine where we'd be if this had spread to the house. 5000+ buildings were lost in the "Wine Country" fires so I feel VERY fortunate.

Also, NOW, Contractors can demand ANY price they want. The two quotes I received to rebuild the barn were $250/square foot!!! The local Barn Contractor was billing $50/square foot before the fires... This is an Ag. building with JUST walls and roof. No insulation, no drywall, no heating, no plumbing and scanty electrical.. I really had no choice but self build.

Anyhow, I actually ENJOY putting together this GIANT TINKER TOY SET!

Long term goal is find another decent 914 body and build it from scratch since they all need total tear down anyhow for a proper paint job.

I'm also going to be doing a fair bit of wooden boat building as this is my other passion, and my buddies want to help set up classes for wood working, metal working etc, sort of using this building as a "learning center".

Some 914 clinics might be fun to host as I'll have the space and a decent parking area similar to what McMark used to do at Original Customs in Sonoma before he moved to Minnesota.

Posted by: mepstein Dec 3 2019, 01:17 PM

Make sure you are insured for the classes. Even if it’s just your friends. Usually an umbrella policy will cover it but talk to your broker.

Posted by: flippa Dec 3 2019, 01:36 PM

Sorry for your loss.

Very nice build.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Dec 3 2019, 02:08 PM

Heavy timber is unusual for CA, usually we see regular 2x stud/joist/truss framing. Barn looks great.