Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: MarkV Jul 3 2003, 01:21 AM

No Reserve

The URL is locked so you can't cut & paste. :finger2: :finger2:

http://search.ebaymotors.com/search/search.dll?GetResult&query=porsche+914&ebaytag1=ebayreg&siteid=100&s_partnerid=2&tmp=6000&st=2&category1=6001&categorymap=6001&Top10=&SortProperty=MetaNewSort&catref=C1


Attached image(s)

Posted by: 914Timo Jul 3 2003, 02:35 AM

Nice car, but $32k ???

The direct link is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2422166229

Posted by: FlatSix Jul 3 2003, 06:13 AM

The car is advertised as a 1972 GT clone.

NO WAY!!!

The chassis number is from 1976.

The headlights use motors to raise them, it has standard interior door handles, steel bonet and rear deck lid etc...

But it has steel flares!

Posted by: Anton Jul 3 2003, 06:29 AM

For 32K one can get a lot of Porsche NOT being a fu..ed up 914!

And what exactly is "916 clone" about this car I cannot see; steel flares certainly do not qualify. On the other hand, a steel roof, a 2.4S (or 2.7S) engine, and a special 916 gearbox modification would (apart from the other goodies mentioned by FlatSix)!

The vehicle should contain a sticker that says: "WARNING: if you stick your hands in any luggage compartment you will get electrocuted"

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 3 2003, 08:08 AM

you can have 12-16 decent 914's or this 1... 32k is a joke!

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 3 2003, 08:24 AM

How can you get 12-16 decent 914's the same as this car.
This car has a 3.0 six in it so it is a conversion which usually sell in the 15k range for nice ones. Ok, so maybe 2 cars. This one looks like they have done it right and its sweet. I hope they get it!
Sometimes you guy jump all over a car for no reason, now if its a rusty AA POS I have noo problem.

I wish my car was as nice as this 3.0L conversion.

Geoff

Posted by: tat2dphreak Jul 3 2003, 08:31 AM

I guess I should have specified 914/4s....

Posted by: Qarl Jul 3 2003, 08:33 AM

This car has been for sale for about 1 year at that dealership.

I don't think they are going to get it.

MAYBE in the low to mid 20's.... maybe, but I doubt it.

Posted by: krk Jul 3 2003, 08:49 AM

Well, it's a nice enough car, and it would cost quite a bit to replicate. The 916 reference is probably spurious marketing-speak. I'm with Anton on this -- I don't see anything 916 about it -- the most obvious point is the front and rear bumpers are wrong. (But I prefer the gt look, so I actually like the front better anyway - the splitter is an interesting addition -- I wonder if the bumper is real or fg.) 916's all had pretty custom interiors as well. Often leather, or that cool paisley interior we saw recently.

The interior looks like the single place that the owner could have spent more money/time completing. It looks like a pretty stock 914 interior with a change out of seats, instruments and rollbar. The driver's door still has the screw holes in it for the stock door handle (sort of cheezy). The instruments you normally change out on a 6-conversion anyway -- I'm not personally a fan of the white face look, and I doubt that porsche was in '72, but I could be wrong. I can't see a gas gauge anywhere but there aren't a lot of pics of the interior. The 916's I've seen pics of used a stock gauge under the dash where the console would have been.

Basically, it looks like a pretty nicely done 6 conversion. Some parts are hard to tell, of course -- not much detail on the engine/tranny combo (a newly built 3.0 w/goodies can be a 10K - 15K toy) or the actual suspension/brake goodies. To get to call it something like "gt clone", you probably have to do more work tho, as a lot of the details are not very close. (dashboard should be felt, door panels, etc)

There are too many colors in the engine compartment.

I do like the koenig's. Dunno if I'd use red tho.

It would be interesting to see better pics of the back pad. It looks like they sectioned it to fit the seats. It looks like felt/carpet on the sides, but I can't quite make it out. There's a nice new screw above the interior light that probably polishes up real nice with chrome polish. lol.

As far as pricing, this would be interesting if I were considering building a car with specs pretty close to this one. Then it's a build or buy decision. But I'm not, so others will have to chime in about the 32K reality check.

kim.

Posted by: cha914 Jul 3 2003, 10:32 AM

As mentioned above...the front splitter is a piece I haven't seen before, this a one off piece or anyone knows who sells/sold these?



Tony

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 3 2003, 11:36 AM

From the looks of it, it looks custom made. I am considering making a fiberglass front splitter, and making a mold to reproduce it.. Is this custom? or is this an off the shelf item?

Andrew

Posted by: silver six Jul 3 2003, 12:12 PM

I agree with Kim. I, more or less, like the car. It's overpriced, but it is still a nice car. But the problem appears to be the lame and misleading advertising. The seller says it is a GT clone and in other places the seller says the car is a 916 clone. The car, in fact, does not "clone" either the 916 nor the early 1970s 914-6 GTs.

The 916 was a luxury car with leather all around, AC, and a 2.4 liter engine (if I remember right, could be a 2.7). But this car does not have leather all around, not on all parts of the seats, not on the dash and I did not see AC. Also the engine is from another era.

The GT was a stripped down race car with no amenities and black felt where a lot of the interior trim used to be. But this car has all sorts of fancy amenities, weird gauge faces, center console, arm rest, and no black felt.

So it's neither a very good GT nor a very good 916 clone.

I still like the car anyway. It looks like it was almost done right. I don't know how you're supposed to change the coil to dizzy wire, however.

Douglas

Posted by: anthony Jul 3 2003, 12:47 PM

You guys are hard on cars. Besides the marketing speak about it being a 916 clone it would easily cost $25-30K plus a lot of labor to build the same car with a used engine and definitely over $30K with a new rebuilt engine.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 12:56 PM

I emailed the seller and asked him if he even knew was a 916 was.

-Rusty

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 3 2003, 01:01 PM

yeah, but that's not the way it works with these cars.
i will NEVER ever get the money back i've put in the car so far.

and i know that and i'm fine with it. (cause i don't wanna sell )
i'm even going to dump much more into it over the next year or two.

by the time i'm done, i'll probably have around $35k - $40k in the car.
and even then, i won't get more than $15 for it ...

Andy

Posted by: krk Jul 3 2003, 01:01 PM

Troublemaker.



kim.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 01:13 PM

No, being a troublemaker would be rallying a charge to get everyone to email eBay, and claim deceit in advertising - it's no where near a GT or a 916.

-Rusty

Posted by: krk Jul 3 2003, 01:22 PM

Yeh, I agree. I've just never had a chance to use the fish smiley before. I'll do better next time.

kim.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 01:32 PM

The salesman's reply:

-----Original Message-----
From: Frederick Regina [mailto:sales@concoursautos.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2003 2:19 PM
To: Lawrence
Subject: RE: Question for seller -- Item #2422166229

Hi,
I'm sorry if you didn't like the description. It is an anomaly because Porsche didn't build a 914/6 in 1972, and the 914/6 didn't have a 3 liter motor, where as the 916 never really existed, other than the 11 prototypes that were built and only 1 made it to the states, and they didn't have a targa roof. How would you have described it?

Thank You,
Frederick

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 01:32 PM

My reply back:

Sir,

Porsche DID build a stock 914/6 in 1972:

Production Numbers:

914/4 (ROW) 6,106
914/4 (USA) 15,474
914/6 (non-GT) 260 (approx)
916 11
Total 21,851

The 914/6 serial numbers were: 9142430011-9142430260

The car you're selling is a 1976 chassis, with a 3.0/6 conversion and steel flares. That's how it should be listed. The fact that the car is indeed a 1976 has significant consequences if the buyer is from an area with smog requirements, like California's 30 year rolling exemption.

To claim this is a "clone" of a 916 is plain wrong, and an uneducated buyer would be screwed over if he took your description as accurate.

Regards.

Posted by: Anton Jul 3 2003, 02:15 PM

Rusty, this is exactly the point: they are misleading potential buyers and then play innocent. It is very presumptuous to compare the vehicle in question to a 916, or a 914-6 GT for that matter, as SilverSix has already pointed out. I applaud you for correcting Concoursautos.

Still, one has to admire the time an effort that went into the car. How it was done is a matter of taste (not mine BTW). The car will have an excellent weight to power ratio and should be able to perform outstandingly. Hell, they should have used it in "2 fast 2 furious". Anyone seen that movie yet?

Posted by: Mountain914 Jul 3 2003, 02:17 PM

From the looks of the picture - it's a dealership of 'specialty' cars (looks mostly customs and rods) so you can't fault the seller too much (it's not like he is probably a 914 guy or anything). We just like to nitpick on people who aren't as well versed in what we know (just an opinion here! ). Imagine if we paid for something with a rare coin of which we had no clue... and the people behind the counter happened to know all about rare coins. I could just imagine their conversation.
As far as the money... As sir Andy said, well we all know we can put a lot in these and get very little return on investment (no one can argue that I've got way too much in mine!). The deal here is that it's a dealership, and they are in it to make money. That's all.
More power to 'em, I say! The worst they can do to us is drive up the prices on these to make ours more valuable (remember, I have a NARP - all you concours enthusiasts bite your tounges!).

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 02:52 PM

It's a beautiful car. But I remember back when I first got into 914s. I had no idea what they were about... but I knew mine was cool.

If someone had advertised it as a replica of something rare, I would have probably still bought it... but then I would have been mad as hell that I was lied to.

Worse yet, imagine going from a smog state, flying to Florida to buy this "1972" car, and (not knowing any better - that's what eBay is about sometimes), ending up with a 76 that you couldn't register.

Scary.

If they're a specialty/street rod kind of resaler/consignment/dealer... it's their JOB to know.


-Rusty

Posted by: silver six Jul 3 2003, 02:56 PM

To me the real issue is not whether the car is nice or not (it looks very nice except fo the poorly placed ignition system); the real issue is (1) whether the car is really worth over $30,000 and (2) whether the car has been falsely advertised.

Saying that the seller should not be faulted because the seller is an uneducated dealer of rare automobiles I think, doesn't fly. The seller is a professional organization. They sell cars every day and they do it for a living. They are regulated by standards of professionalism in their state. If they do not know that the car is a GT clone or a 916 clone they should not say that it is. I do not fault the dealer for not knowing as much about 914s as the people on this board but I do fault them for acting like they do know more about 914s then they really do, making false claims, on an overpriced car.

It is not fair to the buyer and may potentially be a crime (although I'm really not sure about that).

Douglas

Posted by: Anton Jul 3 2003, 03:22 PM

Non Original Racing Porsche???

Posted by: TVR Enthusiast Jul 3 2003, 03:31 PM

There's a grill on the front bumper. That looks dumb. Guess whoever made it doesn't like the wonderful world of mid-engined sportscars

Posted by: seanery Jul 3 2003, 03:40 PM

Uh....that would be for the OIL COOLER...

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 04:03 PM

Deflation must be affecting the economy.
I saw the car a few weeks ago on their web site.
Then the price was $39,900 and it cost $100,000 to build.
At least the motor is still a 3.0 and did not shrink to a 2.7
http://www.concoursautos.com/info/914-6B.shtml

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 04:18 PM

Hey! He fixed the ad!!

Cool beans... nice to see honest folks on evilBay.

-Rusty

Posted by: Cdn Teener Jul 3 2003, 04:26 PM

Good to see indeed.

Here's a Question, maybe some of you racer/conversion Guru's out there might know....

What is this Red Knob/Stick there for??

And no I don't mean the heater control one, smartasses


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Qarl Jul 3 2003, 04:27 PM

Geez Rusty!

Every time I correct someone in an ad... they get really nasty! (remember the shift knob crap!)

Too bad Sarasota is 4 hours away... it would be fun to drive that car.

It HAS been for sale for over a year... so the price is too high.

It does look done right (except I think the red and yellow are too much for the engine).

I don't like the white-faced gauges, but then again I'm going to be customizing my gauges too, so I can't gripe too much.

Regards,

Karl

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 04:31 PM

Mark,

That's the hand throttle. It's used in lieu of a choke for cold starts on a 914/6 with carbs.

-Rusty

Posted by: Cdn Teener Jul 3 2003, 04:34 PM

Ahh...many thanks, I am still a 914 "youngster" but the wealth of knoledge here is amazing.

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 04:35 PM

It is a controll for the brake proportioning valve.
So you can change the front/rear brake %'s.
Some are dial type. This style has 5 or 7 pre-set positions.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 04:37 PM

Hey Vegas.. is that what it is? Looks like a throttle control to me.

-Rusty

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 04:40 PM

I could be wrong.
It sure looks like the Tilton I had in a previous car.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: JRust Jul 3 2003, 05:02 PM

I gotta say that is one beautiful 914! I'd love to own it! Of course I probably wouldn't pay that kinda money for one. Then again if I had that kinda money to blow I probably would . Heck I'd pay to see that car in real life let alone drive it

Posted by: Steve Jul 3 2003, 05:09 PM

On a 914-6 the hand throttle is in front of the stick shift or between the stick shift and the dash.
It's actually a rod that pushed the accelerator pedal.

Steve

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 05:16 PM

Steve's right... I wasn't looking closely!

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 05:40 PM

Racers - 1
Conversion Guru's - 0

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 05:50 PM

I looked at the super-size photos again and it looks like the same handle.
I can't see the bottom well enough to see the ratchet part.
In the front trunk photo there seems to be an extra line comming off the master cylinder area.
That would be consistant with adding a proportioning valve.
In that same photo you can see that he has the master electric cut off switch located in the trunk.
It should be on the outside of the car so you can get at it in an emergency situation.

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 06:31 PM

To ALL of you out there. I am sincerely sorry. I am the culprit behind the ad on Ebay for the 916 clone, 914/6 GT, and whatever other mistakes I made. I am the Internet manager and when I placed that ad up there, I had based my information on a magazine article I had read on the Internet, a stack of receipts, and information that people had told me. It is impossible to know everything about every car. We carry such a wide variety that it is hard trying to properly display the correct information about every car. Sometimes I make a mistake. But ya know if it wasn’t for 2 of you that were kind enough to tell me the correct information I wouldn’t have known. So to Douglas & Lawrence I want to say THANK YOU! You are both Gentleman. I have made the corrections on Ebay. I wasn’t trying to misrepresent, mislead, or cheat anyone. If you think about it ….. who really is going to be interested in this car? It would be someone just like yourselves, who know what these cars really are. I am Sorry.

Frederick C. Regina

Posted by: krk Jul 3 2003, 06:43 PM

Frederick,

Damn straight post. Welcome to the board!

kim.

Posted by: VegasRacer Jul 3 2003, 06:44 PM

Frederick - If you are going post messages like this, you are liable to give used car salesmen a good name. Your honesty and integrity is to be applauded. If you read some of the other threads on this BBS you will find that there is a wealth of knowledge here. Sometimes dispensed in a ruthless manner. You are welcome here anytime.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 06:45 PM

What are you doing to your gauges? I need to pull out my gauges and send them to PA Speedo for complete refurbishment and custom screening. When they're done (800 dollars later, is the estimate), I think they'll be the gauges that SHOULD have been put in the 914!

-Rusty

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 06:48 PM

THANK YOU VERY MUCH KIM !!!

Posted by: Jeroen Jul 3 2003, 06:49 PM

I don't get the b-ing and moaning about "false advertising"
If you know what a 916 or GT is, then you know this is not what you're bidding on.
If you don't know... it doesn't matter anyway

The smog-issue on the other hand could cause problems

A big thumbs up for the seller to rectify his ad and even speaking up here on the BBS

The car looks absolutely great (has got me thinking about black again, I know I shouldn't but it looks so good...)
The modified front bumper and specially the splitter are very cool IMO

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: MarkV Jul 3 2003, 06:49 PM

Frederick is abviously a stand-up kinda of guy. You can't ask for more than the above.

Hey Frederick,

Do they let you take any of the inventory home for the night. I'll bet that car would scare the $$it out of you, I know it would me.

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 06:50 PM

THANK YOU VEGAS RACER! I will now ask for help, now that I know where to ask it.

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 06:53 PM

That Car I only got to drive around in the parking lot so I could take the pictures. It spends it's days inside an air conditioned showroom waiting for it's new owner.

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 3 2003, 06:54 PM

Jeroen...

I bitch and moan about almost anything.

But if someone didn't know, they sure would after owning it for a while and running into a few other 914 owners.

I think there's no better color for a Porsche than black... when it's clean. When it's not (the other 95% of the time), it's just another dirty black car.

Yep. I think it's cool that he corrected the ad.


-Rusty

Posted by: krk Jul 3 2003, 06:55 PM

Frederick,

a) your caps key is stuck (we are even willing to advise on keyboard techniques)
B ) I'm not buying the car (insert cheezy salesman joke here) (unless you have a wild 914club discount )
c) welcome to the board! lol.

Oh --- toss in some gratuitous emoticons (those smiley things on the left) -- and you'll look like a pro here. (Well, not quite -- I've failed once today already) Oh well, the real message....

Have a great 4th!

kim.

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 07:12 PM

Thanks Kim .... You have a great 4th also

Posted by: Qarl Jul 3 2003, 07:24 PM

Fredrickr:

Welcome to the group. I live in Orlando. Wish you were a tad bit closer.. I'd love to see the car.

It looks nicely done (but not for my taste). I could almost buy two of your cars for what mine will end up costing, so it's definitely true about how much money goes into these cars.

I hope you find the right buyer.

Your honesty will go a long way... and participation in groups like this will surely get you some good exposure.

Regards,

Karl Ellzey

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 07:34 PM

Thanks Karl,
You guys have no idea how I felt when I received an email that said that I might want to see what is being said on this sight about my ebay ad.

I know there is no great trust of used car guys, and let me tell ya from the inside I see why. I try to do my best to be as honest as I can. I do believe that it is possible to do business in an honest manner. The problem I had was figuring out how to sign in to this sight. I'm glad I finally got it.

Posted by: Frederickcr Jul 3 2003, 07:37 PM

Thank you guys for making me feel welcome here. I'll be back often ....... and probably with lots of questions.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jul 3 2003, 07:54 PM

I think the red handle is for a 100 shot NOS. I still like the car as it seems well done.


Geoff

Posted by: redshift Jul 3 2003, 08:40 PM

Nope, one had air, and it was added. That the Gregg car AA has.

I am a genius.


M

Posted by: MarkV Jul 3 2003, 09:08 PM

So who is the mystery genius from "Not Novato CA"

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 3 2003, 09:13 PM

whats up with the stupid white face gauges?

Posted by: Scott Carlberg Jul 4 2003, 04:11 AM

Frederickcr,
I think I might be able to help you find that *new owner*.

Raffle that sucker off, to one of us here on this board!!!


$100.00/ticket would be fair, wouldn't you think?

Posted by: Anton Jul 4 2003, 06:01 AM

Frederick, thanks for replying.

I hope the car finds a (properly informed) new owner now that the add on E-bay has been adjusted. Please note that a more correct determination would be 1976 Porsche 914-6 3.0 Conversion, not clone. Furthermore, instead of mentioning 916 I would refer to the 914-6 2.0 (1970-1972; being the original aircooled flat six) and claim that your car is much faster, "truly" making it a Porsche. In the specification department (weight to power ratio) your car would compare to a 916, but that is different story from how you put it now! A comparison with the 914-6 GT would also go a miss, as this a lightened car with a specially prepared engine solely intented for racing (and is even more a purist car than the sought after 1973 911 2.7 RS).

Still, I feel that the price tag is big hurdle for the average 914 enthusiast...

Posted by: URY914 Jul 4 2003, 06:39 AM

Dear Everyone,

I've seen this car in person and have talked to the owner. (Na-Na-N-Na-Na). I took this picture at Sebring and few years ago.

It may not be for everybody but it is nicer than the pictures indicate. The Owner is a decent guy and he had written the ad copy he would have gotten it right.

Paul


Attached thumbnail(s)