Hi Everyone - Thanks for checking in on my Six. If you caught my other thread, Cairo's Six, http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=188776 you may have noticed my Six has been at ScottyB's shop in VA for a while and Scotty did a lot of work.
I am happy to report I picked up my car on the 22nd and it is now in Torrance, CA in the capable hands of Kent Simmons (914350). If you saw Andy's (Socalandy) and Jim's (banananose914) Six build threads, you are already familiar with Kent's work.
Kent accepted the challenge of finishing all of the metal work, body work and then painting my car. Kent will be assessing the condition of the car as received and getting to work. It is important at this point he knows what he is dealing with and everything is rock solid before the next evolution begins.
So stay tuned as my Six gathers speed.
So, for those that don't know, I am the guy in the gray T-shirt.
Looking forward to seeing the pictures and progress on your car's next step in the restoration (and completion!) process.
Glad you're getting it sorted with Kent, & hopefully you won't have too long of a wait from now. I've seen both Jim's & Andy's sixes, & I think you'll be more than satisfied with his work & attention to detail, as well as the timeliness of his work.
Besides, at least with it here on the Left Coast, you can more easily drive down & visit your baby from time to time!
Hey guys - Yeah, I have to admit, having my Six here in CA will be great. It is a easy 1 hour flight down to LA for visitation. I know I have to go down to pick up a bunch of stuff we will not be putting back on my car, the original Fuchs, heat exchangers, muffler, doors, engine lid, the 3.2 heat exchangers and muffler, etc. I will bring all of those home to get them out of the way. Yeah, this should be exciting.
OK, it took a serious effort but Scotty, my brother and I got my Six into the back of the 26' truck.
I am happy to hear its moving forward. I can't wait for updates
I'm looking forward to seeing the progress now. I've seen SoCalAndy's car and -- wow -- that's a stunner. I'm sure yours will be equally nice. But in its original gold, right? Please?
Wow. That's quite a trek to Virginia to pick up an unfinished project. Were you able to get all your stuff back? I hope things go better for you with Kent. From personal experience I believe they will. Good luck!
Hey Jim - Yeah, about 2,400 miles from Scotty's to Kent's. I got almost everything, missing a dip stick, some cad-plated parts and maybe a couple other things. Scotty will be shipping that stuff once I get a chance to do a full inventory and get him a list. The trip was uneventful (fortunately) and pretty much nothing happened to the car or the parts during transport. Trying to catch up after being gone for 5 days. Cheers- Michael
Here is the dolly Kent made out of some spare 2x4's and casters he had in his storage space in about 30 minutes to move my car around until it goes on the rotisserie.
Great to hear!!!!!
Michael N- Thanks. I am very excited to see it making progress again.
Porschetub - Yeah, there were no problems. These projects are definitely not for the weak of heart. Like anything else in life, you experience ups and downs and it teaches you to roll with the punches. I am not one to look backwards, serves no real purpose. I prefer to keep my eye on the ball and move forward. I wish Scotty nothing but the best.
OK, here it is coming out of the truck right before we lift it and set it on the new dolly. Kent had a couple friends from the neighboring shops come lend a hand and it was an easy lift for all- thank goodness.
Now finally you can paint it gold!
Let's hope Kent can get it into paint soon so you can build and drive the car before you die.
You are doing Adriatic Blue, right?
That is one of my favorite colors.....
So, here is how this works- my wife let me indulge this dream of mine and the price for that, (among many other things she got) is she got to pick the color. Amazingly, we were both in accord on the color choice.
I suspect the cat will be out of the bag pretty soon as Kent does not appear to be one to let things sit around. Kent was excited by our color choice.
Kent and me pushing the car into his shop.
So your 914 does exist. It's been at Scottys since I joined here. I thought it might be an aberration. Glad to see your "back on track" and more importantly that you took the "high road".
OK - Well here it is sitting in Kent's shop. I look forward to posting new photos as they arrive. I will try to load them smaller to see if I am able to add several per post to make it easier to view.
What is Kent's shops name?
Great to hear it's moving forward, Kent doesn't seem to hang about
Keep those pictures coming
You must be so pleased,ive got another month and my GT should be here in the UK
peteyd - Kent's shop is called Auto Art Customs in Torrance, CA.
Cool. Is Kent going to be able to build from the work already done, or does he have to go back over existing work? I hope not. That car needs to be on the road as soon as possible. Go Kent!
I have been following your build for a long time. As I have been working on my 6 #41 since I bought it in Jan of 2007. And I have been active on this board from 2007 till now with a couple of years where I had other things going on in my life and did not spend that much time on line.
As you know these complete restorations can take a very long time, as huge projects shall I say they ebb and flow?
My original color was cannery yellow and I battled whether to paint it my favorite metallic blue or the factory Cannery that it came down the line as. I have friends that think my six is not real in Utah at PMB Performance.
In the end I am not sure I did the right thing not going with my very favorite color.
You will go with what gives you the most joy. Yes everyone is dogging you with the color. I think the factory gold was a bit dark but rare.
I try to figure what will be the easiest to get out of when I sell it. Always have with cars.
ScottyB did a shit load of work on your body restoring it. His work looks great to this point. Very detailed. Look forward to seeing how it finishes up.
That's a great question Jim. I told Kent I fully understand, and quite frankly, expect, him to go over my whole car with a fine-toothed comb. He told me he needs to make absolutely sure all of the previous work was done correctly so we have a solid base to work from. It is my hope, and quite frankly my expectation, that all of the previous work was done correctly and to the level we all knew this car was being built to from the beginning.
The truth will come out, hopefully all good. And, just as I asked Scotty to do, I have asked Kent to photo-document all he finds and does as my car moves forward for paint. I have not and will not hide any of the ugliness, should it exist. Conversely, if this car gets a "gold" star (see what I did there?) from Kent and he can move right into finishing the metal work, body work and then paint, great. I will be a happy dude.
Hey Bob B. - Yes, Scotty did do a lot of work on my car. My position has always been to find the best guy and pay to have it done correctly the first time so you don't have to pay to have it done again. Scotty told me my car was 8-10 hours away from all metal work being completed, then minor body work for panel fitment and finally, color. (I am correcting that statement - Scotty told me 1-2 weeks away from metal work being completed - my mistake)
The last thing I want is to go through all of this to have my car finished and then two years down the road I end up with rust bubbles lifting the paint due to a failure to correctly repair, preserve and prepare my car for paint. So stay tuned, we will experience this together.
I got my first peek last night and we have our work cut out for us as with any resto!!! Looking forward to this one and getting you that gold star Michael
Those were TWO big hints right there that the car is NOT going to be painted gold.
I received some photos taken by Andy when he visited my car (thank you very much). These are closer, focused images, of the work. As Andy said, this is going to be a lot more work than I had hoped for. I think I need a
On the bright side, my car is in California now.
Does this mean there is room for me now ?
Oh no.. That's not what I was hoping to see..
Well, it is what it is. Kent will be the judge of the quality of the work.
Michael - I'm glad your moving forward.
The light is showing off everything. You have to decide just how much you want to spend to primo out your car. If you want a show car body on it could cost you a lot of money. At least you are going with a light color that will hide some of the problems.
My 6 had what I think was a superb body with basically no rust and it still cost $20,000 to get to a show quality paint job from a point after new floors where welded in.
Thanks Cal - I appreciate that. I am hoping this is the worst of it.
That is not good.... makes me sick to my stomach , actually.
Man, this is going to be lots of anxiety until Kent identifies and addresses all of the problems. I had hoped those days were in the rear view mirror after all of the work I had done.
It's inspiring to see you push forward. I'm looking forward to seeing this done!
At least we are here to talk you off of the ledge.
Wow...... so let me step in to address a couple things here
Michael. I NEVER told you there were only 8-10 hours of metal work left. What I told you was that you had a credit on the books and I guessed ( I don't keep my Quickbooks data in my head ) that it was 8-10 hours of work I owed you and I needed to check on that. What I recall telling you as far as the metal work is that there was a week or two left on the metal work. The repairs to your drivers door alone that need to be done are close to that 8-10 hour mark, not to mention the other work it still needs.
Per the front end mess----- You and I had a very frank phone call over a year ago about this very situation. It was to stay between you and I, but now that these pics are being posted with no explanation I need to refresh your memory and let the cat out of the bag......... As I told you in that phone call, I had an employee that I let work on your car while I was trying to deal with my personal issues. IIRC I had the front end and rear cut off, I believe I had the trunk fitted and asked him if he could finish fitting, and weld it all together. He assured me he could. Once he was done and I looked it over, I realized that I had made a major mistake having him work on it. I told you ALL of this on the phone, I told you I was going to have to re-do what he did as soon as I was back on my feet, and that is where that was left. I had been spending time ( as little as it was ) when I had a few hours trying to iron out his mess. For this I have explained and apologized to you repeatedly. I COMPLETELY understand where you were with the project and wanting it done, but I can assure you had I finished it, it would NOT have been finalized in that condition.
Per the mess on the roll bar------ THAT was on the car when I first stripped it. It was an old repair that had not been dealt with and I am fairly certain I even posted pics of that very spot in the initial thread along with some of the other messes I uncovered. This car was taken out of my shop in partial condition on very short notice so no, I didn't finish things I had started on and am quite disheartened to find out from other friends and customers this morning that I was being thrown under the bus. There was, and is a lot left to be done. I in no way indicated I was done with any single aspect of this job. There are cuts left to be welded, welds left to be finished, hammer and dollying left to be done, panels need to be fitted etc.
I don't mean to thread jack, but glad you chimed in, now I feel like crap for not doing a build thread on my car and showing the excellent work you did on my car. I need to get off my duff and upload some info/timeline/pictures in a new thread.
Not many car shops I trust (that I've used) other than Scotty, WillsWerks, and Tim Berrardelli Racing ...aside from all the amazing suppliers here 914Rubber, Mb911, Rich Johnson, & various others I'll thank in my future thread)
Helllooooo Scott! I don't harbor any hate toward you. I don't know you and you don't know me. I have seen your work though and although I don't necessarily have a dog in the race, per se, if someone says they're going to do something to a particular degree, they should do it. I know that in my line of work, that if something doesen't go right, or as I had planned, I'm expected to own up to my shortcomings. I don't have the luxury of putting the blame off to an employee or some outside ailment or force. It's your shop though. Your employees are an extension of your shop and vice versa.
I think you have to agree that five years there is a little too long. With or without an ailment, life challenge or a sub par employee(s). I understand things happen. But you have a business to run. Do it like it appears you once knew how, and move on.
I do hope things get better for you. If you ever make a wrong turn and end up in California, call me. I'll buy you a beer or ten. I mean that sincerely. We both have the same interest, that being 914's. I won't be posting any derogatory posts about you or Cairo's car any longer. I do look forward to any progress on the car. Jim.
Hi Scotty - This "Part 2" was not intended as a "throw you under the bus thread". I explained to you I would be closing the old thread and starting a new thread documenting the remainder of the build.
You are right about the 8-10 hours. That was what you said you still owed me to balance the time sheet. That was my mistake. I also believe you said you had a week or two of metal work left before the car was ready for final body work, blocking and primer which was to have been done by the end of May (2017), so you could then paint it in July. I accept responsibility for those omissions.
You are also right about telling me about the employee who did less that proper work on the front end. I recall you told me you had to take it all apart to correct it. I then remember seeing photos of the front of the car with no fenders on it. I guess, absent additional information from you when I picked the car up, I assumed since the finders were on you had corrected that work.
You and I did speak, as you mentioned, about the fact someone other than you worked on my car- you told me from day one you would be the only one working on my car as you knew the level of work I was expecting and to guarantee my car was done correctly you would be the only one touching my car. Then your employee worked on it. To your credit, you did own up to all of that and I appreciated that then and still do now. You did apologize many times for that as well.
I have just posted photos of the car as it sits. I let the pictures pretty much do the talking. I have, other than expressing disappointment over the appearance of the work done, really not commented, other than to say that whatever needs to be corrected will be corrected and I am moving forward.
I will continue to post pictures as the car moves along. That has been the purpose of my entire build thread. To educate others about what happens when you take an old Porsche and decide to restore it. I see to many projects get started and die on the rotisserie when people realize they have fallen into the deep end of the pool because they never realized so much work and attention to detail is necessary on these builds.
I don't have time for negativity in my life so I choose not to go there. I can not, however, moderate the comments of others.
I believe I gave you 2 weeks notice I was coming to get my Six and all of the parts- I thought that was plenty of time to get ready. I apologize if that put you in a bind.
You specifically called out Jim and Mark. All I can tell you is Jim, aside from being one of the nicest and most gracious guys I have ever met, owns 2 sixes. I have seen both of Jim's cars and his Tangerine Six is 99% finished and completely done to concours standards. His other Six, his "driver", is in better condition than most Sixes on the road today. Jim's Tangerine Six is the bench mark for all to aspire to and the standard I hope and pray my car reaches.
Jim has been to Kent's shop and seen my car in person. I believe he is commenting based upon his personal knowledge and experience after seeing Kent do the metal, body and finish work on his Six. Additionally, he has of course followed my thread from day one to see the photos of the work done. Jim has offered, with no personal motivation of which I am aware, other than to help out another Six owner, to help me finish my car in any way he can. I am absolutely blown away by his generosity, sincerity and integrity. It is people like him who make this Site and 914 ownership a pleasure.
Mark is just another terrific guy who has helped me out on my build several times. No motive other than to help a fellow 914 owner out. I do not know anything about his build other than seeing his car when I was at your shop about 2 years ago and then it leaving your shop unfinished maybe a year ago or so. Mark will comment if he feels it appropriate, but I don't have a horse in that race.
We parted as friends and I hope to remain that way.
None of us know what your contract with Scotty was, or how much money was paid. Seeing the pics of the car, if you paid $1,000, you did all right. If you paid him $10,000, you didn't do so good.
Keeping it positive from here on out, I was at Jim's Sunday assembly party today. Watching the re-assembly, fitting and adjustment of parts was amazing. Your car is in very capable hands. These guys are experts. You will be all smiles from here on....
Thanks. That is my goal.
Michael, I want to thank you for helping to clear things up. We parted ways on Saturday as friends and as far as I am concerned still are. My commitment to making sure the car gets done still stands if there is any way I can help. I was concerned about where the car may end up, but when you told me where it was going I had no worries. I know the car is now in very capable hands.
Brian had been a good friend of mine for years prior to my hiring him, and after all of this, a close friend became a distant acquaintance because of this issue and some others he caused. This past weekend was the first weekend I have taken off in 3 months, and to be alerted in the middle of it by several customers and friends as to what was going on in this thread put me in a bad way. This whole issue with the front end and the trunk sickened me when it happened, and this just brought all of that back up. The fact that the car left my shop in that state, and then went to another is hard to handle as my reputation and business were not built on that quality level. I would hope that anyone that goes through the original build thread we had, would look at the other work I was doing and could tell a vast difference in the quality. But I also realize most commenting here are only looking at the problem areas that we are now addressing, and are completely ignoring the other areas that were done properly and are NOT issues.
As far as the mess that needs to be cleaned up, I will say that the outer dimensions of the hood, headlights and bumper are all in spec. as is the rear trunk. The original thread has pics of the hood and bumper bolted and rough lined up so you can see there, that the gaps are all good. It's not my job anymore, but my plan was a lot of heating, hammering and dollying, and some reworking to clean things up as it is all pretty much cosmetic, and I don't see any need to remove the panel and redo it all. But that is not my decision to make at this point.
Again Michael, I am here for whatever I can do to help this move forward, and hopefully this thread will move forward in a positive manner now
Great. I appreciate that Scotty.
Well, glad to see you making progress. I wish you the best luck on the journey and I really admire your positive attitude, it's refreshing.
Thanks - I appreciate that.
Looks great. Did he just paint them or plastic blast them?
Glad to see this thread is back on track. Get-r-done!
I will do all I can to get my Six done as quickly as possible. I want to drive it while I am still able. I know Kent is committed to getting my Six squared away like it deserves and shot in a color I can't wait to see.
But tonight it is all about Jim's car firing up and driving for the first time in over 2 decades. I am so happy for him.
Picked out a couple of doors I had upstairs and fit them to the car. I'll chemical strip the face/skin on these then send them out for media blasting of the inside and the shell this week along with some other parts.
Posting pics from my phone for the first time, SirAndy has made this easy. I'll be able to post more often. Thanks.
Glad to see this moving forward again!
Terrific Kent. Glad to hear about posting pics from your phone too. I will have to give that a try. Thanks for posting the door pic.
Jim does amazing small stuff. That seems to be his forte.
I think he worked in one of Santa's workshops in a previous life.....
I am thankful for anything he can do for my Six. I appreciate all of it.
Looks like you've got the right Guy on the car now, and after what youve been through you deserve it
Thanks cal914. I am very appreciative Jim, Andy, Kent and I spoke. I believe my car is going to come together pretty rapidly now. And as I explained in earlier posts, I will hide nothing.
Those two doors look great. I had my original doors replaced with late model doors but upon inspection it was determined correcting existing issues would be more costly than replacing them with nice doors. Now we have two great doors going on my Six.
Ben - I really don't know. I just know that it will go as fast as Kent, Andy, Jim and maybe a couple others can go. I will not be impeding the build in any way.
When it comes to major parts still needed, I am not aware of any really. I know I need a new windshield (tinted), suspension blasted and powder coated, upholstery done (we already have the leather), carpets, bumpers finish metal and body work and then chromed, almost all weather strips and seals, starter, fuel pump, battery, new F&R bumper pads, license plate lights, CV joints and axles, a clear lens high-mount LED 3rd brake light custom fabbed into the top of the "Targa" bar in the SS trim, and a few other items. I did have new large tube SS heat exchangers and muffler on the list, but now that is handled . I am really excited about that.
So hopefully this will go smoothly and we will see it come together nicely.
Jim sent me these pics tonight. This is an example of the attention to detail, terrific work he does. That headlight assembly bucket is perfect. The windshield washer bottle looks killer too. At the rate Jim is going he is going to have all my parts sorted and restored before I even return to Torrance CA at the end of the month.
How did he get that bottle looking so good
I'd like to know how he got the bottle so white also. Bleach? Ajax? Peroxide gel?
OK, so Jim has been a busy dude lately working on my windshield wiper assembly. It looks terrific of course.
Uhhhh, I may have forgotten to tell Jim I have a GT Hockey Puck for my steering wheel. I hope he did not spend a lot of time on this. Of course I am keeping it as I may change back and forth between the butterfly and the hockey puck.
Seriously, how long is the waiting list?
Metalwork and paint, tub only.
Wow happening real fast.....run away train .
The attention to detail amazing,as mentioned that washer bottle ...holy .
It's fun to see these /6 projects coming out of Kent's shop. I imagine his personal six is next in line??
I can't wait to see another beautiful Adriatic Blue 914-6 in the mix.
Jim- you need to slow down and pace yourself. I want to be able to help.
Jim has been at it again:
Ben - I know - Jim is killing it for sure. I can't wait to go down to LA at the end of the month and check things out.
I am looking forward to seeing your heat exchangers and muffler when they are done. I think once the chassis is finished and in color this Six is going to come together nicely. My goal is to have everything waiting for assembly so there are no delays in assembly due to missing parts.
Kent- NOS quarter panels is definitely a great find. I was looking for a passenger side quarter with no luck about 2 years ago. The Gods are smiling on you with that find.
OK - I had to buy a windshield - sorry it is tinted, not clear. Oh, and I borrowed this picture from 914 7T3 since I could not find another. Hope that was OK.
Got the Six on the Jig today. I'll see you on Sat. And we'll go over the car. I just got the 911 done and back to Tony Callas today so I'm ready to dig into your Six now. I should have the parts back from media blasting by friday.
All the suspension points etc. lined up great on the Jig as expected, the car hasn't been in any major accents.
Kent - Thanks for posting the pics of my car on the rotisserie and the frame jig. I am so glad to hear all of the suspension points are spot-on. I look forward to seeing you on Saturday and discussing my car. Food should be a part of that discussion -
If Kent suggests In and Out for lunch, just a heads up, don't ride in the back seat of the van.
Hope you car comes along quickly now. You have waited long enough! Your valance is on its way to Kent. I'm glad I could help out in a small way with the restoration of your car.
Just in case you haven't been teased enough about the color, I've included a pic of my car for inspiration.
Hey Karl- Thanks so much for selling me that valance. It will go perfectly with Ben's new SS heat exchangers and muffler. Your car looks terrific.
So I just got home about 1 hour ago from spending the weekend down in Southern California seeing Jim, Kent, Andy and my Six. My brother went with with and we had a great time. These 3 guys are just cut from the same cloth- they are a pleasure to be around and talk with.
I was able to see my car on a rotisserie in good lighting and go over the whole car and discuss all aspects of the chassis with Kent and Jim. Kent will be putting in some time on this car to get it where I need it to be.
I also was able to go through a lot of my parts, not all of them, and identify some things that appear to be MIA at the moment. I will be emailing Scott and asking him to keep an eye out for them so he can ship them to me. I also somehow ended up with a refinished 911 oil tank instead of my refinished Six oil tank - pretty sure we just mixed up a box. I will ship that 911 tank back to Scott so he can ship me my correct tank with some other parts.
The next time I go down to SoCal I will continue going through the parts and hopefully be done with that at that time. That should allow me to send Scott a final list of items we are looking for.
I also got a chance to hear Jim's Six run - wow it sounds (and smells) sweet.
Then the cherry on the top was seeing Andy's Six - I can honestly tell you the pictures do not do it justice. OMG! It is just beautiful. Then he had to start it......let's just say that is one healthy motor.
At my age, plaque is always a concern in one's arteries....I am sure Andy knew that so he offered me a ride in his car. An offer no-one in their right mind would ever refuse. I am pretty sure that my doctor would be impressed with my circulatory system now. I should be good for another 10-20 years. That is one strong running, sweet riding, Six. It was a nice ride, not just down the street and back. I hope my car is not that fast or I will hurt myself. Thank you Andy for a ride I will be talking about for the next decade.
Unfortunately my brother and I had to hit the road right before noon so we missed what I am sure would have been a terrific lunch. But we knew we had a 6-7 hour ride back up north. Then I had to go grab my car from the airport since we flew down, rented a van and then drove back with assorted parts.
I will post a couple of pictures when I get a chance. Probably later this week.
Again, thanks to Jim, Kent and Andy for a great time.
That is a very nice looking original Six valance. Definitely going on my car. Thanks Karl (rangrbob). Great picture- thanks for posting that Kent.
Looking good. I am working on similar items on my car right now and most people have no idea how long it takes to correct these little things..
Those little things go on and on and when done correctly you will have a car that is finished in some ways better than new.
A true work of ART
Now it's starting to look like a nice straight pan.
Kent must be a reincarnated 914 factory body worker. He seems to know these cars pretty intimately.
Thanks Larmo63 for checking on my build progress. I can't emphasize enough how happy I am with my Six being in the hands of Kent, Andy and Jim. I feel very fortunate.
It looks like it’s coming along very nicely.
its always pleasing to see great progress! Looking good Michael!
Been cleaning and straightening up the bottom of the car. Lots of little things. Should get a few parts I need from Restoration Design this week. Getting close to sealing the underside.
Michael car is looking awesome. Any way you could measure the bottom of the floor pan to the top of the engine mount for me? I know I am jumping in on this thread but I would love to get a real six measurements..
Keep up the great work..
Still chipping away at the stone. Eyes are finaly starting to recover from LASIK...it's been miserable. A couple of drops in each eye and the next day your back to work is extremely misleading.
Looking great and thanks for the help on the measurements. I installed my mount 2 days ago..
Keep up the great work..
Yeah Kent, getting older is not for the faint of heart.... BTW, excellent work- love seeing progress pictures. I know you have done more, but are shy about posting pictures.
I wish my Frankenstein car would have been this clean to start with.. Looks great.
HI Ben- You did see my thread (Part 1) from the beginning, right?
Oops just looked it up yes I recall it now.. I guess yours was rough to start with..
Lot of metalwork going on with some of our cars...
Nice to be getting these back in tip top shape.
It is amazing the progress on this car.
Progress, and what looks to be very high quality of work.
Love checking in on this...
I am heading to Torrance this weekend to see Kent, Jim, Andy and my Six. I am excited to see the progress Kent is making. Additionally, I know Jim has been busy working on components so when it comes time for assembly, we just unwrap them and install them. I am overjoyed with the progress being made as well as the quality of the work. I eagerly look forward to Kent being able to just get to the body work and paint.
I am so ready for the metal work to be over. Seems like I have been waiting for that for 5 years...oh wait, I have! Of course that was not with Kent - Kent has jumped on my car and been busy getting things right. Thank you Kent.
Michael - I can guarantee you will like the 3.2 in that car.
Just one suggestion. Try to fit the wheels and tires on the car before paint.
My clearances are tight and I’m using 6” wheels with 205x60x15 tires and it’s close.
Looks nice and straight and clean and free of rust, etc.
Definitely progressing along nicely.
Wow! I can't wait to see that in person. I have waited a long time to see the bottom of this car looking that nice. Nice work Kent.
Yeah, well if my Six comes out as nice as Jim and Andy's, I will be one very happy guy.
Are you coming down this weekend? I'd like to see the car at Kent's and have a 914 bull session.
Sorry guys. I would love to meet you both. Let's do it another time. I have to respect Kent's time. I plan on going down monthly so we will have a chance to meet in the future. Plus that will give Kent more time to get the chassis whipped into shape.
Maybe we could make it either before or after Thanksgiving? It would be a Saturday, not the Thanksgiving weekend, that's for sure. Don't want to add to the holiday traffic madness. I won't be able to nail down the date until I am in November due to my constantly changing schedule. But I think it would be fun to meet, have lunch and "cut it up" as "they" say.
Also, if you have not seen Kent's work in person, I think it will blow you away. Pictures are good, but not as good as actually looking at the work in person. Andy and Jim's cars are just awe inspiring.
No worries. I just want to meet up some time if we can work it out.
I would enjoy that.
Have had the week from Hell with crazy work and hours. Got home at 10:00 last night and went to bed and then got up at midnight so I can be on the road by 0200 to p/up my brother so we can drive down to see Kent, Jim and Andy. Been looking forward to that all week.
Back from southern CA - Had a great visit with Kent, Jim, Andy and my Six. The bottom of the car is looking really nice .
However, in talking about the front of the car, it was decided that the front panel on the car needs to be replaced to make the front end correct. As you can imagine, this was disappointing to me since it was already replaced a few years ago. But, in the end, it will be cheaper and easier to get the front end panels correct this way. I have posted a WTB and am once again chasing down an early nose panel.
My brother and I were able to spend some time with Jim going through my parts and I was able to complete my inventory of the parts I have and what I did not get when I picked my car up. I will get my list, it is short, to Scotty. He has been waiting for the complete list so he can gather and ship my stuff in one batch. I look forward to seeing those parts soon.
Also, spent more time looking at Jim's Six... It is just amazing how nice his car is. It is like being transported back to 1970 and seeing one in the showroom of the dealership - only nicer. The depth of knowledge regarding these cars, between Jim, Kent and Andy, is just amazing. They really need to get a life . Seriously, they know these cars. I am so glad my car is in their hands.
I will go back down to southern CA in December to check on my car again. I hope I am able to quickly find a nose panel and get it to Kent so that surgery is over before I have a chance to really think about it.
That is disappointing.. Sorry to hear that..
Now that's what I'm talkin' about. That is how a car is supposed to be prepared when it is a full media blasted restoration. Great work Kent. Have some cheesy-bread on me. Now I can't wait for December.
> chasing down an early nose panel
What part are you looking for exactly?
Hi Steve - I believe I have sourced an early nose, the whole front panel behind the bumper. Should something happen I will reach out.
At first glance I thought a PO had drilled right through the nut plate for the mirror mount. Lookin closer, I saw that they had drilled two holes just off to the side of the nut plate. I welded up the holes then located and drilled holes to reveal the threads in the nut plate.
I showed how I locate and drill the holes for the mirror in Jims thread but I figured I show it in Mikes thread also.
I sprayed some black paint on the area.
Lathed a point on a bolt.
Screwed it in to the nut plate from inside of the door till it made a point in the metal.
Slightly sanded the area to reveal the mark then removed the bolt.
Used a punch to mark a guide for the drill.
Drilled a small hole.
Screwed a bolt in from the back to use as a stop so the threads don't get damaged.
Used a larger drill bit to open the hole to the correct size.
Hi Kent - Thanks for the hard work and photos showing it all. I believe you will have a nice nose panel pretty soon.
I have said it before but it never hurts to hear it again. When doing a full restoration or resto-mod (since my car is getting an '87 3.2 and a couple other minor changes) on these cars, or any other type of work, documentation is what wins the day and maintains value.
If one were to ever sell a car claiming it was a bare metal restoration, and they did not have the photos, sorry- you lose. I have seen to many threads claiming bare metal restorations and then you see the pics and the cars were only partially stripped.
The same goes for rebuilt engines, pictures and receipts are needed or it is a core engine or running engine with no history and valued accordingly.
When our cars were inexpensive, who really cared? But now that any clean 914 is bringing $25K or more and Sixes are hitting the $100K mark, people expect to see the paperwork.
Michael and Kent the car/project is looking awesome................
The craftsmanship is stunning.
Thanks Cary - But the credit goes to Kent. He alone is taking care of this chassis to make it like new.
OK - Looks like I got very lucky here and this is the NOS nose going on my Six.....
Can I buy the old one from you? Mine is missing the curve, probably from a accident, which is causing the hood not to close.
Timothy_nd28 - If it comes off in one piece, you can have it for the shipping. However, I believe it will not come off well or in one piece.
One of the reasons we are replacing the nose on the car is it is creating issues with the whole front end and panel alignment. Evaluating it, we decided it would be easier to replace it rather than trying to remove and re-install it. Stay tuned for pictures of that in the near future once Kent has the new panel in his hands. To be honest, I am really excited to see this front end get buttoned down and finished.
Really? I would be a bit surprised if there was a special nose panel for the Sixes. No reason for there to be really. I am sure the one I bought is just a new NOS panel for an early car. I hope someone can confirm this special detail.
SocalAndy's car hard to see.
That's a bumper tit front panel ,,,close but not it....73/74,,,
No special panel for -6,,, 70-72 is what you need
4 types in total...
OK, correction. There is not a /6 specific front latch panel, but one for the 70-72 chassis.
It breaks my heart, but this is a 73-74 nose panel and it will not work for my car.
So I am back on the hunt for a NOS early, 70-72 nose panel. I am hoping someone has one up in their attic, shop storage, garage, you name it, that does need it. Please send me a PM if you have what I badly need.
If we can't find a NOS panel, then I will start to look for a very clean used panel. But with the level of damage we are trying to correct on the front of my car, an NOS panel would be a God send.
Thanks for posting that picture Andy. Keeps me motivated and gives me hope. Someone has to have a spare panel sitting around.
Thanks Pete. RD does not have a replacement panel yet. I am just hoping someone has one stashed in their parts they will not be using and offers it up for a worthy car.
I really want an NOS nose panel as my front end has issues from previous work. But if that does not happen, I will consider a very clean used panel so long as it is removed correctly and not damaged in the process. But it has to be really clean so it can be blasted and installed.
Oh wow! Those doors look perfect. Very nice work. Thanks for posting the pics.
When setting the car on the fixture previously, I could see that all the measurements were in spec although the back of the car was tucked down from a previous hit/accident slightly. I could see this in the suspension console alignment to the fixture. Although being off by 2mm is within spec, I brought the back up to get it to zero.
Ok, I'm caught up. Michael, I need to come down and see this thing. It's going to be sweeet!!!
Just amazing work. It is so calming to me to see the quality of work being done and that my Six is moving right along. Being back on the fixture means we are going to see some reconstructive surgery....... can't wait. Thanks Kent.
Wow, that sucks!
That is just the way it goes I guess. I do know that the passenger side rear quarter, from mid-fenderwell back, was completely replaced - there are pictures in Part 1 of my build thread showing it being done.
Sad and sorry that has to be redone too. Regardless, Kent is doing this correctly and I know, and so do all of you by now, that is the only way Kent would do it and the only way I want it done.
I will just go without food this month and maybe heat too.....
So it looks like more bad news coming my way regarding the previous work. The passenger front fender has to come off because it was welded on over a bent wheel well that is high and the hood strikes that when being closed. The passenger side fender is also out of alignment a little, but the driver's side is off a bunch. These were both replaced in VA.
Also, as if that was not enough, the passenger's quarter panel is off, welded on the wrong way, and the taillight housing will not even fit in the opening. This was done in VA. The driver's side fits OK but needs some work too.
Looks like Kent is going to have to remove a lot of sheetmetal and then redo a lot of work I already paid to have fixed once. That really hurts.
I am not bad-mouthing Scott. His work is history as it relates to my Six (see Part 1 of my build thread) and I am not going backwards. However, I can't post pictures showing the work Kent is having to correct to make my car straight, true and right and take the chance someone might associate that previously done work with Kent's shop or the work Kent is now doing to correct all of this stuff. So I am trying to be clear about what was done in the past and what Kent is now doing.
I am going to post some pictures at some point - but I am technically challenged in reducing the picture size to add a bunch into one post. I wish we had an auto-resizer for pictures like Pelican. Maybe we could all donate to that software program for Sir Andy so we could make life easier for us old folks????
This is the site I use for resizing my pics.
It takes some time for sure, but can usually add a couple pics at least in one post.
Oh and bummer with your previous body work.
I'd really want to "throttle" somebody if they did that to my car.
In process of removing the front panel. Since it was previously replaced, it tears up the flanges that it is welded to due to them being plug welds. It's the right way to weld it on but just harder to remove. All these flanges will be rebuilt.
So sorry to hear about your facing "do-over" work. I feel your pain. The key motivator for me to teach myself to fab was a horrid and quite expensive experience I had with a shop that totally f-ed up one of my project cars. I renamed that shop "Dream Killer Garage".
And it's interesting how the previous work done on your /6 was well documented and seemed to look quite nice in the pics. Many positive comments from others, etc.
So hang in there. Your car is going to be another benchmark /6. Once it's complete, the joy you'll get simply looking at, let alone driving it, will surely make it all worth while.
Tygaboy - Thanks for the thoughts. Yeah, pictures don't always tell the real story, that's for sure.
Oh well, Kent is absolutely kicking butt and it will be prefect now.
I am an Apple.
Thanks Cary. I am always willing to listen and learn. I wish we had it as easy as the Pelican site. I can load photos there with no issues at all. Have great day and tell the super-in-law I said good morning. Cheers.
This is coming along very nicely. It will be an awesome ride. It makes me want to spend more time on mine. It has been a really busy year at work. So I haven't had much time.
If your an Apple person it is easy. Import the pictures into photos, and then export them as a jpg in the size and detail you want. I normally use high detail and a size of large, fit very well. I save the exports into a folder called 914world, and then pull them out from there.
If I did it in original size, it would not be nice to Sir Andy. I use a point and shoot camera for the shop, the iPhone takes great pictures, but I can drop the point and shoot and not care at all.
Now back to this great restoration
Hey Stephen- I will give that a try. Thanks and Cheers. Michael
At least your car will be 100% primo. Great shop. Every detail.
Michael - I feel sick every time I see another problem posted.
Mark - Don't worry; I know you had your problems too.
I feel like it is Ground Hog day and I can't escape the nightmare.....
Fortunately for me and my Six Kent is 100% on this and knows this is the level of work I want.
Not the continual replacing of panels part....
Thanks Kent - I love seeing your work.
Michael, are you driving Jim's white /6 to the events down here this weekend?
Kent, when you have a minute ...............
Am I only seeing 2 spot welds from the fender to the cowl ? I thought the one I tore down had 3 on each side with a 6 inch non welded section in the middle.
Thanks Steve. I am fortunate Kent was able to accept my car into his shop. I am so glad to see progress knowing it is being done correctly.
If you look, you can see in this pic how the bottom of the bucket is pushed over/inward. Look at the angle of the drain tube and the angle of the bumper bracket.
The second pic shows damage from a previous accident.
Because the inner structure was bad, the fender gap was gone on that side and someone had drilled the bumper bolt holes out to about the size of a quarter. So the bumper would align.
Hi Kent - Thanks for the pictures.
I have no idea why anyone would have welded the holes for the warts and turns signals up. My Six had them on and working when I bought it and was never not going to have them. WTH?
Thanks again - Michael
Mark....You're killing me....
Kent is not going to be sculpting my 914-6 - that's for sure. That's how they end up weighing 2 tons!
how is this going?
Well we have sourced the NOS nose, left and right front fenders. So we should be seeing some great work soon. Thanks for asking.
Mike located NOS left and right front fenders, they should hopefully show up next week. I've been cleaning up edges and trimming some sections off of a donner car that will be needed. I'll load some pics next week. I got a new phone and pics didn't get transfered. I need to download the pics off of my old phone onto my computer so I can post them.
Oh man.... I can't wait to see those NOS parts, (nose, L&R front fenders) in Kent's shop with my Six.
These NOS fenders were not inexpensive by any means and I was very fortunate to have been contacted by a fellow member who offered them up for sale. Despite the cost, I was very excited to be able to buy them for my car.
The NOS nose was a great deal and I am very appreciative of the seller for that. I also bought a stock deep rear valance (4 cylinder) from him.
Thank you very much to fellow members aturboman (Robert) and Perry Kiehl. Both of you are great guys and great to deal with.
My commitment to my Six is to build it to the highest standard possible. That is what Kent is doing- no doubt at all. I am confident Kent could have worked with the rusted fenders and damaged nose on my car and absolutely metal worked them to be prefect. (Heck, I am pretty sure Kent could take a piece of sheet metal and make a perfect stock 914 fender from scratch for that matter.) But I do not believe that would be in the best interest of my build. We had enough issues with my tub needing to be corrected that I did not want to compound all of that with bad parts. These NOS parts will enable Kent to get my chassis dialed-in better than when it rolled out of the factory.
I am seriously looking forward to next year as all of the fabrication, metal work and repairs are in the rearview mirror.
So Kent has been pretty busy by the looks of it.... this is what happens when you wet-sand blast a car. This stuff cakes up like clods of dirt and holds moisture and causes rust. That will not be a problem now. I am lucky that Kent recognized we had an issue and removed this quarter panel. Apparently the other side is OK.
That looks like the former passenger side quarter. Glad that came off and will be replaced (correctly) with another complete panel to fix that widening we saw of the rear end as well as the length problem.
Thank you very much for taking the time to review the complete thread. Yes, I have had a lot of support from our members and others. I am so thankful of that. When it is tough going, that is very helpful in remaining positive.
This poor Six build has dragged on so long, languished for about 5 years with no real progress aside from being disassembled and then cobbled together poorly, that a lot of people probably gave up on the car and the thread. I almost gave up too. I came close to listing the whole thing for sale any buying something else for fun. I was very upset about the whole thing and unsure what to do. My car was in pieces on the other side of the country! I talked to a few valued members and friends and finally said, enough is enough.
My love of the Six won out and I decided I had to take the reins and put an end to the B.S. Thankfully, unbeknownst to me, Jim, Andy and Kent, (the founding members of The Justice League, as far as I am concerned) while busy with Jim's incredible car, were apparently often talking, scratching and laughing about my build as it went from bad to worse. Jim reached out to me, (one of the better days of my life) and offered up their services - dedication, skills and expertise, to restore my car correctly.
I knew this was going to blow my budget, but I really wanted my Six to be done correctly. A build I would be proud of and not ashamed or afraid to drive. This was my 3rd Six and I had loved my first two so much I knew I had to do this.
We all have that one car that kind of takes us back to our youth. Though I have had a ton of very nice cars, the Six was that car for me. I discussed it with my wife, told her how much money I had wasted, what it would likely take to recover from that event, and then finish the car. Thankfully, my wife, who loved my last Six as much as I did, maybe more since she cried when it drove off with its new owner, said to just get this one built right so that we could enjoy it. She actually thinks she will be using it as her daily driver when she retires shortly.......I told her she is keeping the C4S as her DD.
That pretty much gets us to where we are now except I had no way of knowing apparently all of the work previously done was done so poorly it would all have to be re-done for my Six to reach the level I expected. Good thing too because I do not believe Kent would have accepted the car if I had said I just wanted a clean driver. For that he would likely have referred me to another shop. Rightly so too. Kent is one of those rare guys who knows, loves, works with and restores metal. My Six needed his skills desperately if it was ever going to survive the experience it had been through and be returned to the car I expected it to be. Oh, and not to let the cat to far out of the bag, but Kent's skills are not limited to body restoration and paint.
So that kind of gives a quick overview of how and why my car has been being restored for 5.5 years now.....
Best wishes everyone. Keep your eye on this thread and watch as this Six comes along.
We toured Kent's shop Saturday morning before we all drove our cars over to the Pelican event. Wow, there was some questionable work torn off of that car. Kent showed us all of the finer points. He surely has an eye and feel for a 914 chassis. I'd love for him to paint my black car from the doorjambs out after your car leaves.
It will be worth the wait, and you are in such good hands with those other two guys helping on re-building it into a running, driving car.
Thanks Larmo63. I believe people will be surprised when they finally see close-up pictures of what Kent had to deal with when my Six arrived, after all of the work I had previously paid to have done.
Glad you got a chance to see my Six in progress. Yeah, I can only imagine how a black 914 would look after Kent gets his hands on it.
The fenders shipped separately. One down, one to go.
I hope to someday see this car in person. Good to see things getting done!
Wow. Just wow.
My poor car.....well we have to get it back to what it was meant to be. Sad that it has had to go through such a tough journey to get it all straight. In the end, it will be better than factory built. Keep at it Kent, you got this.
The left rear got removed also ???
Hey Mike, your car is going to be a awesome car and will be a show car like Andy's.I'm glad that you found the right guy.Kent will do you right good luck can't wait to see it finished.
Keep at it Man....
You'll be there in no time at this rate.
Watching in great anticipation of your final result.
Kent has been forsaking his Sunday's with the other members of the Justice League to work on your 6. My 6 doesen't like Kent seeing other sixes. You got that Kent. By the way, we have a meeting this Sunday, Kent. If you want Andy to buy you lunch, and me to buy you soda water, you better show up. Anyway, Mike your car is moving along nicely. You will be happy. Kent is killing it. In a good way. I intend to have your hardware plated this week. I just want to make sure I have it all before it goes out. There is a lot. I also have most of your stuff done and stored in plastic bins and separated from my parts. I don't want any cross contamination. Next thing you know the parts will want to unionize, and then their periods will synch up. Then we'll be in real trouble. Talk to you soon. Jim.
Hey Jim - Scotty just mailed another box, hopefully the last, and you should have that this week. I think at that point we will have all we are going to have. I look forward to talking-maybe tonight?
I thought the plating was done already.
Pic from your previous thread.
His car has five engine lid latches ?......three front sway bars !!!!!!
Right about now feeling for anyone that has had a car wetblasted
That was a batch of plating Scotty sent out for multiple cars. I don't believe Scotty was really impressed with the results. Jim will go through what we receive and determine what, if anything, needs to be done. We want all of the plating to be excellent quality and the same. Clear all matches, etc.
What are you going to do for a toolkit?
Hey Kent - Loving the front end pictures! That is so cool. Thanks for doing that.
Dang, that is some heavy surgery right there. The fenders look great.
Are the warts and wart holes going to go away?
I love the warts - they stay.
They will look better on Michaels' car than they did hanging in my shop. I got them to black hole for my own 6, but it's found a new home.
Scrub a dub, dub, the warts stay on the tub.
You have another career awaiting you Jim....song writer.
To add to his illustrious comedy writing and parking lot stand up routine?
You never want to limit your options.....
Terrific looking parts. Thanks for posting the pictures Kent.
Wow, you won't even have paint that fender.
Sadly, in the wild, some must die so others may live. Here we have a very nice green car giving its life to help others in need. We offer thanks and bow our heads in prayer.
I wish my car was that clean to start with as the green car..
Nice looking fender Kent. How is the backside?
Yep, the green hornet is a very nice car. I dated all my wives in that little beauty. I still want to buy the seat.
The seats have been dispatched to the Smithsonian.
Cant' wait to see that baby media-blasted and ready to be installed. Thanks Kent for pulling that terrific quarter off and making it available for my car. This is going to be one tight and straight chassis.
Amazed at what nice donor parts you guys get out west...the stuff in the east is usually almost as rusty as the stuff being replaced!
Believe me, I know.....
Mark - The Green Hornet's chassis? Or another one?
Oh that looks very nice. We now have an early front panel.
Love that fix. I have to do the same thing.
"Amateur newbie panel welder", that's funny.
Great thread ! Kent, thanks for posting all the pics, it's a treat seeing your work
Thanks guys for all the nice comments.
You are going to be booked with West Side work for a long time.
Amazing amount of work!
What was that hole for that you made the patch panel for?
Just amazing work. I am very impressed and pleased. Thanks and thanks for posting to the thread Kent.
Bob's absolutely right...and I'm guessing you can reconstruct enough 914's to fill every month of a calendar in about 5-6 years. Perfect timing...I hope to retire by then so I can be your gopher.
BTW..I will be the first to pre-order.
OMG! That is such a great picture.
I am so happy to see that quarter is clean and solid and the front end pieces all sitting in place like that. Thanks Kent.
Is there a count of how many donor vehicles have been used on this restoration?
Kent has replaced a few panels because the ones we had were not in the condition or of the quality we wanted and expected for my build.
I had decided to update my original doors, which were in good condition, with later doors for the crash protection. The doors from VA, represented as in great shape, were actually badly rusted and covered in body filler. Kent had 2 late doors that were actually in great shape and so they are now on my car.
My original front fenders had been poorly body worked and had accident damage. Scotty and I sourced two replacement front fenders, represented as excellent condition. Turns out they were improperly installed and did not line up as they should and were as badly rusted as the doors. So I located 2 NOS fenders for that replacement.
The front nose on my car was in good condition, but it was a late replacement panel without the holes. Likely installed back in the 80's. We also had an early and late headlight bucket on the car. Scotty and I talked about this and decided to make the front nose correct because this build was to be as good as or better than when it left the factory. We sourced an early front nose in pretty good condition and it was installed. Turns out it was not properly installed and prior damage was never repaired before the install. During the install of that panel, damage was done to the inner front fenders, creating more issues needing addressing. This resulted in my sourcing a NOS nose for a 73-74 car which Kent "corrected" to be an early panel for my car.
The front hood on my car was in decent shape but Scott said he had a perfect hood. Turns out that hood had a lot of damage and the support frame was separated from the hood skin and never properly repaired. Kent has replaced that hood with a hood he had which I know will be perfect.
The passenger side quarter on my car had rear crash damage and Scott sectioned a new piece from a donor car at mid-fenderwell. The fitment was off by 1/4", going wide at the rear of the car and also longer than it should have been by approximately the same amount. Kent had to remove that panel and elected to do a full quarter replacement with a near prefect replacement panel from a donor car he had. Turns out we got really luck there as that panel is really in great shape.
That leaves the trunk.....I know that the trunk on my car when it left VA had visible damage in the front right corner. I believe that is a replacement trunk Scotty had. I do not know if that panel will remain or not at this point.
I don't know how to fell about that- 5 cars (possibly) gave up body parts so my Six could once again be driven and admired by many for decades to come (I hope). I take comfort that all of those cars were already parts cars or had been parted and were in storage awaiting cars that needed their parts.
I am grateful for all of the people who have generously offered up parts to help my build. I am most grateful for Kent's abilities and willingness to tackle this mess and set it right.
Cheers everyone -
I have 2 questions.
What steps can be taken to prevent rust on this Jewel, Michael, e.g plating or dipping?
Kent, do you foresee a time when you might need to re-skin the doors? I'd love to see that process detailed here.
Are you going to adapt the late doors for the cable style winders or stick with the late versions?
76-914 - 1. The doors Kent supplied he metal finished and they are prefect. 2. I am not sure what we will do to make this chassis as rust proof as possible- that is Kent's domain. I am confident he will know how best to approach this and he will make it so.
rhodyguy - I am sticking with the later window mechanism. I see those as a better mechanism, long-term.
No doubt on the windows.
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