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Posted by: 914 7T3 Aug 14 2017, 11:06 PM

Didn't want to Hijack bbrocks thread on how certain mods may affect resale value, but it really got me thinking about future values on these cars and where the market may be heading.

http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=314860

I love that everyone has a different vision for their car and can go their own way. Some members such as Arne & myself are currently working on driver restos and others such as Larmo among others are deep into some serious 6 builds.

After having been to about a 1/2 dozen events, there is definitely serious interest in the 914 and this will bring prices up for good clean original cars. Not sure when or to what degree, but I have spoken with several PCar Collectors, expressing interest in "seriously getting one, but they're hard to find"

Good clean cars and NOS parts will become scarce and drive prices up.

What are your thoughts on values possibly starting to trend similar to the beginning of the run up on 356s and 911s?

I would also like to hear about how many of you have Concours quality 914s as I have not heard much about those cars in the forums.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 14 2017, 11:16 PM

Posted by: Peashooter Aug 15 2017, 09:42 AM

I don't see the 914's ever approaching the 911 or 356 territory. A real nice original 914-6 is starting to get semi-serious money thrown at it, but that has tapered off from what I see. The best bet in Porsche world will always be a nice original, numbers matching car. History has shown that over and over. The hot rods and conversions are fun cars when built correctly but will never ace an original car. The 914 four cylinder cars are starting to come into their own at last, helped along by the stratospheric prices of the fore mentioned cars and the fact that the new cars are so stupidly complex the owners can only play with them to a small degree by themselves and the costs are high.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 15 2017, 10:37 AM

Unlike 911's and 356, there are still a ton of low priced 914's out there. They might need a lot of work but untill the supply of cheap cars dries up, the average 914 won't hit big numbers like the average 911 or 356.

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 15 2017, 10:57 AM

The early 911 values' push effect has been going on since 2000 & even back into the late `90's to some extent, with the expected pauses or flattening at recession times. When the early SWB & LWB 911s pushed into 6-figures & some into mid-6's - then the 914-6s first, & 73-74 2.0s, 74 LEs etc. next began to rise.

So not only are 911s taildragers, but are also "the tail wagging the dog" when it comes to 914 values.

Similarly, with the 4-cylinder 356s reaching even higher heights than early 911s, that drove prices for both 4 & 6 flavors of 914s as more accessible early air-cooled collectable Porsches. Remember that you could get a Speedster, Coupe or Cab #1 cars which now sell in restored & even restoration-resurrections for 2-300KS - which in the 1960s-70s for a couple of thousand dollars!

So never say never, about if 914/4s would ever pass $100K at some point - as we're 1/3 of the way there now!

Also lately with the early 911 prices plateauing, the 914 values seem to follow suit & have flattened out their rise from the mid to high $20Ks for a Concours level 73 914-2.0 in 2009-10, up to the early to mid $30Ks & relatively flat since 2015.

https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuationtools/1973-Porsche-914-2.0
^ see the chart at the bottom, & revise the search for any other MY & engine/sub-model you like.

Similarly, the factory 914-6's went from the $50-70Ks to $90-100K+'s in the same period, & have been flat lately.

Part of this is the fickle nature of what the big collectors think is hot - or will be - & what they pine for, as well as the economics of the purchase/value relative to other options. So later 70's 911s are feeling the same value push & interest lately.

Also - while the top end #1 cars rise or pause, so do the #2-4 cars, as well as resto-mods, conversions, etc. - just at a lower level than are the "hen's teeth'" #1 all original numbers matching cars - with an unmolested, low mile, all original & never restored #1 exceeding their value curve by quite a bit.

.... & I do mean "ALL original" - not the ubiquitous "all original, except..." cars too often advertised at top prices. If well done they may have a good value, but not the top dawg all original values.

Probably at this point while some "virgin all originals" are available, as well as undamaged & minimally rusted/repaired & accident free "all originals" with restos requiring minimal body work, both commanding top values - those "originals/numbers matching examples with more rustoration &/or accident repairs in the resto will lag a bit below those. However, in the future as supply of good #1 cars dwindle & if demand for them keeps up or grows even more, then even those will close the gap on the all originals over time.

Similarly, the resto-mods, 6-conversions, Subi-conversions & V8-beasts, etc. will command good values relative to the quality level of their work done - but at a level below the originals at any of the #1-4 quality levels.

So at some future date TBD, the 914s - both 6 & 4 - may reach the recent highs of the early SWB & LWB 911s - but by then they too will have escalated in all probability.

However, the early SWB & LWB 912s & 76 912Es will probably stay within close value with the more desirable 914/4s (74 LEs, 73-74 2.0s, 75-76 2.0s, 72 914/4 1.7s, & very early production date/number 70 MY 1.7s) - as they are today.

The 914-6s are & will remain above those 914/4s & 912s/912Es & closer to the early SWB & LWB 911s, & maybe even stay comparable to the lower end 911Ts & 911Ls of that era - or perhaps even more than them, if more collector folks finally figure out that the 914-6 is both more rare by numbers produced & handles so much better than those base level taildraggers!

That's my opinion of the forecast anyway, & that of many other collectors, insurers, etc.

So my word of caution is - whatever model/engine 914 & condition level #1-4 that you have - make sure to recheck the current values & adjust your insurance coverage accordingly ever year or two - so that you're not cut short in case something happens to your baby!

PS - FYI - my 914 is an early 73 2.0 with the Appearance & Performance Groups of options included in the base price & marketed in late 72 & early 73 as a "914S" "Trim Package"* (similar to but not with the +/-1000 limited numbers of the 74 914-2.0 LE Trim Package*), & it's a matching numbers car, but it has accident & rust damage which needs to be repaired in my resto. So even though I plan to keep it all original, taking it back to the OE Light Ivory L80E paint, with a few of the optional dealer accessories sold back in the day (e.g.: the AMCO Porsche+Audi approved Porsche Crest shift knob, which has been on it since I got it as 2nd owner in 12/75), as well as returning it to the factory supplied center console, fog lights & Fuchs 2L alloys which were removed by the selling dealer before the OO bought it new - it won't rank in the top class of very low mile all original, lightly restored or fully restored 914s with less rust/panel damage to repair.

For those wondering about my 911S & LE comparison as a "Trim Package" - here is a Wike definition for it below, & there are other definitions out there too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_package

Cheers!
Tom
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Posted by: BK911 Aug 15 2017, 11:33 AM

Well said Bill.
+1.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 15 2017, 12:57 PM

Interesting, Hagerty has the '76 2.0L valued ~ $500-$600 higher than earlier cars and 73/74 2.0s valued the same as '75.

Posted by: wes Aug 15 2017, 01:10 PM

I believe collectors driving those $$ over people that love to drive a nimble light weight early car!

Posted by: burton73 Aug 15 2017, 02:44 PM

76 is the short run 914-4 beside the LEs it is I believe the shortest amount of cars being only made in 1975 and all of them 2.0 From a collector standpoint it should be high but it has its smog issues. They are not dogs. My 76 is a runner, handles great. I bought it just for investment in 2008

Bob B

Posted by: 914Next Aug 15 2017, 03:23 PM

914 7T3 I think you're going to get the full range of responses here. Of course none of us know what will happen to values but we all have an opinion. I personally agree with others who indicate that the all-original and top survivor cars, whether 6's or 4's will lead the 914 market. Concours restored will be right there with them or slightly behind. Lets face it, the market in all collector categories right now favors originality....which was not the case 15 years ago.

I do think 914's will continue to increase in value and that prices today are not generally over-inflated.

I too wonder how many excellent all-original examples there are out there. I have one that I think likely deserves to be in that category but I too would love to know of others. Agree with you that there is not much talk about originality on this forum. Thats ok with me....I still learn a lot but I'd love to hear of and discuss other's original cars now and then too. Maybe a Survivor registry for those looking to promote originality. Could see a couple levels based on percent originality. Just a thought. Likely will go nowhere.

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 15 2017, 03:44 PM

Brent,

I'm not sure, but I think that may be driven by a few recent sales of a few very low mile & pristine 76 2Ls, & IIRC one yellow one has re-traded several times over the past 5-6 years for an increase.

Here in CA the 76 & on smog compliance requirements will continue to hold them back for anything but a never driven Queen, until & unless the legislature here moves the goal post for smog exempt further past the 76 MY cars.

IMHO we'll continue to see the GA & GC versions of the 2L close to each other, perhaps with the 76 edging out on the collector preference due to the lower numbers, as with the 74 2.0 LE.

The early 73 MY 2.0s with the "fully loaded" "914S" trim package will be somewhere lagging those a tad, but more popular since they all included the preferred chrome bumpers with foglights, loop carpet with console & other desired options. Unfortunately, PCNA doesn't list them as "included options" on their COAs (nor do they for 911R, 911RS & other special packages), although they do list the combo paint number in color for the 74 LEs.

.

Bill,

The non-CA 75-76 GC 2.0s were pretty choked down as stock from the factory - while the 49 state version was a bit better on power. If yours has bypassed all that gear &/or been tweaked for your driving pleasure, then it will perform pretty much as a 73-74 GA 2L.

Back in 75 when I was looking for my 914, I also test drove a few new 75 & 76 GC 2Ls as possible new car purchase - since new was an option for me then on a limited monthly budget a year out of college, what with the bank offering 100% financing, 5 year term & lower interest rate - so my monthly payments would've been close to the max 80% financed 3 year term & higher rate, within maybe $10/mo of each other.

But I could tell a significant power difference between the 75-76 GC 2L in Calif smog fitment, & the 73-74 GA 2Ls - which were a good 20% more HP/TQ - since the CA GC 2L had about as much power as a 70-72 1.7L - at 86 vs 80 HP respectively IIRC. So I & most others I knew could tell the difference easily, but in all cases we're talking less than 100 HP, so not the 300-600+ HP bench racing debates of today - which monster power you can't really use in the real world, even with all the intervening electronic nannies.

The fun then & now of our 914s, is being able to drive them at 80-100% on public roads & enjoying their handling!

Back then the 73-74 was definitely preferred by most folks, unless they wanted a new car only. My Dad was always banging-on about letting someone else take the 20-25% loss of value when driving your brand spanking new car off the lot, so I leaned in that direction, as well as to cut off payments sooner with a shorter 3 yr. loan.


Tom
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Posted by: Tom_T Aug 15 2017, 06:36 PM

Here's a 75 1.8 with 3K miles at Russo & Steele Auction in Monterey to watch for some price envelope punching, with an estimate at $50-60K!

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-08-15/pickled-porsches-pebble-beach




Tom
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Posted by: Jamie Aug 15 2017, 07:03 PM

I wonder how some of the minor changes I'm making to my "mostly original" 73 1.7L Dad's Mistress affect the value, but the true value to me is driving Dad's old car. She is truly rust free in all body parts, still has original factory paint on the battery tray! I have had the outer body painted in the original beautiful Delphi Green, moved the fuel pump to the front, mostly drivability changes that enhance the value to me as a driver. I couldn't care less what these minor changes do to potential resale value because the car will not be for sale in my remaining lifetime!

Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 15 2017, 07:10 PM

In the future, with the advent of self driving cars, our cars ( or anything fun) will be legislated out of legal use. I doubt if many 914s will even be on the road.

The good ones will be in museums and most of the leftovers will be crushed to make renewable housing for homeless people.

Posted by: 914Next Aug 15 2017, 07:14 PM

I believe the estimate is at $40-$50k Tom and I'll go on the record with a prediction of a $41,500 top bid. Agree with the comment that the removed A/C will pull it down. Also, while some may not, I'm dinging it for the fact that it is a '76. But I sure hope I'm low.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Aug 15 2017, 08:16 PM

Remember that there were only ~4100 made for the 1976 model year. Plus it is the end of the run, and that seems to carry some cachet as well.

--DD

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 15 2017, 09:04 PM

The fuel pump move to the front up behind the steering rack cover was a factory Service Bulletin item, with a factory supplied kit, so that shouldn't hurt any 70-74 which has it moved to resolve the vapor lock problem in the heat. Not sure what your other items are, but if they stick with period correct &/or easy to revert back to stock, then it's usually not a problem.

That yellow 1.8 with +/- 3K is a time capsule & probably won't be driven much at all.

While I'm not as pessimistic as Lawrence about all cars being outlawed, I think that they will become more rare as time goes on, but then I'll be dead & gone before they're completely outlawed - if that is even legally possible & feasible in the future.

Steve is correct on that 75 1.8 - it's a $40-50K estimate - I hit the wrong key with my flyin' fingers! .... but that would a big increase for a 1.8 value, if it even reaches $40K!


Tom
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Posted by: Chris914n6 Aug 15 2017, 09:32 PM

I attribute the rise in value of original cars to the simple fact that the 914 was so lacking and cheap for 3 decades that finding an unmolested example is near impossible.
There is the same issue with the early 90s Nissan 240sx (s13). It was/is the chassis of preference for entry level drifting. Bolt in the JDM 2.0T for a couple grand and off you go. Rare is an unmolested unwrecked 240sx without the poser welded diff. Price and popularity is starting to fade thanks to the Toybaru twins and the same money buys a nice 350z or Mustang.

Side note: I'd pay more for JRust's Suby than a restored LE just for the fact that it's more fun to drive and doesn't sound like a beetle.

Posted by: thelogo Aug 15 2017, 09:46 PM

At least this put into perspective my theory
That you should drive it like you stole it and not give a fucc about
How long its gonna be till you get your value or money out of it





Just remember chaps
No matter what the cars worth
You cannot buy the memories , and a 914 seems to always

Give me more fun and at the same time almost race car
Like perfomance.


Its like putting a price on my old jim rice baseball glove

Cant do it







I have a stock 1.7 73 , with a big for motor

But the second you start thinking something is worth more then
You paid for or are " in the car for "

You better think twice , unless its a tucker or something

Posted by: Steve Aug 15 2017, 10:42 PM

I think there is more people out there like myself that looked for a good condition car to convert to a six or put a subi or some other higher hp motor in. That being the case there will be fewer and fewer stock 914's left in the world, which should raise there value even more. So far I am only seeing the converted cars go for the cost of the parts. Really nice cars like Paul's Excellence magazine car and Joe O'brians car sold for less than what they had in it.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 15 2017, 11:20 PM

I understand the originality bit, but it's not for me.
I never plan to sell my car so I absolutely don't care what its resale value is.
I have no use for a garage queens.

My '67 bug has 180hp, 1700lbs, 5-speed 911 trans, lowered etc. it goes from 0 to 100 probably under 5 seconds. I have a shit eating grin every time I drive it.
I want the same deal with my now 3.0 six conversion that should be close to 250HP.
I plan to drive the living shit out my car and quite honestly if I had to live with the stock 1.8 HP I'd buy a Corvette.

Not driving, modifying or worrying about resale value your 914 is like not having sex with your smokin hot girlfriend, just so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.

YMMV

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Aug 16 2017, 08:08 AM

Preach it Mark! Preach!

Zach

Posted by: Steve Aug 16 2017, 08:56 AM

Living in so cal where 914's are more plentiful, I see mainly conversions and few original cars. Like Mark most of us conversion guys don't care about resale value or originality. We make our cars what we want them to be and plan on keeping them forever.

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 16 2017, 11:12 AM

The OP was asking about how many original 914s are out there:
"Original Cars:How many are still out there?"

So IMHO, preaching the virtues of a conversion, &/or how everyone else who has an original or is restoring one to it are just being stupid is OT in the former case, & just plain rude &inconsiderate in the latter case.

Yes, there is a place for conversions, resto-mods, etc. in the 914 community - & I've tried to encourage you folks with them in SoCal to show them off at our PCA Zone 8 Concours in either Display or Judged - & guess what - one actually won class at our OC Concours in June!

However, it's gotten very tiring for the folks with the swollen gonads to always chime in that we originality fans are stupid .... that includes you Mark!

Fro me - my goal has always been to put my 73 2L back into the condition it was when new - before all the repaints (2 by OO &/or dealer, 2 by me); before theft of the Fuchs 2L alloys, fog lights/grills/switch & center console by the dealer; & to have it accurately represent both a period in automotive history, & in my personal history.

I worked hard & ate lots of PBJ & Mac-n-Cheese to pay for it in 75-79, I had many road going mempories in it, & courted my wife in it - so I have a personal connection to it. It may start out after resto as a garage queen, but then I will enjoy driving it!

So I really don't give a Flying F**k if somebody else on here thinks that I should drop a Subie, -6, V8, big-4, or whatever else that they want in theirs - into mine!

I enjoyed driving my 914 for 172K miles & a decade pretty much as original - with the addition of Koni shocks/inserts & a few other period tweaks, & had restored/refurbed it TWICE in that time, & only stopped cuz some ditz ran into it in a parking structure in 1985, & I've hung onto it since then with the intent to & collection of parts for & my work on it for a restoration.

THAT is my right! PERIOD!

You folks really need to get over yourselves, & allow room for & respect the original 914 lovers, just as we do with you!


Tom
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Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 16 2017, 11:24 AM

I see you're off your meds again Tom

Posted by: mepstein Aug 16 2017, 11:40 AM

I just saw this one today. 1970. Original owner from new. Made some bolt on changes; steering wheel, front spoiler, wheels, exhaust, etc. but had all the original parts carefully saved on a shelf. Wants $2,500. Problem is it's VERY rusty. He has new, uninstalled floor pans but it needs longs, hell hole, suspension console, rear trunk and even area under the cowl (damp mice nest rotted it out). I'll check back later in the year to see if we can work a deal.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 16 2017, 11:55 AM

No, just fed up with you Mark!

Go pound sand!

Posted by: bbrock Aug 16 2017, 12:35 PM

I just posted on the other thread that after owning 3 of these cars with tired suspensions and rusty shells, I just want the experience of driving the car as it was when it left the dealer. So count me as an originality guy and I think I made a mistake by tying my question on the other thread to resale value.

For me, I think Porsche designed a damn fine car here that has been way under-appreciated and I like the car for its strengths AND weaknesses. I think it's kind of funny that my Honda CRV could probably beat my Porsche in a straight sprint. The Honda can go just as fast too. But you know, I've driven 115 mph in both cars and one is "meh" and the other is "Whee!" I even like the windshield washer powered by the spare tire. It is just another of the many interesting quirks of the car. That doesn't mean I don't salivate over those wide body, muscular sixes? I do!

So I'm hoping when I'm done with my resto, I can be counted as having an original. But my struggle on the other thread that sort of started this brew ha ha is more about defining/interpreting originality. To me, the perfect 914 is an original '73-'74 2.0L sold on the European market - higher compression, euro signals and no warts. But if I convert a US car to those specs, it's not original. If I buy a car in the US, ship it to Hamburg, and then convert to euro to meet local requirements, is it still not original? It's a philosophical question.

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 16 2017, 01:01 PM

Brent,

Like putting in Konis or Bilsteins over the base stock Boge shocks/strut inserts, or using a SSI heat exchanger when originals are long NLA (they can always be painted as OE) - if you put on the 8.0 Euro P&C's from Meyhle or another OEM, then you will not be downgraded on originality IMHO.

The cars have to be kept running, operable, rust & dents repaired etc. - so using the appropriate & period correct Euro P&Cs to tweak a few more HP was & is a common upgrade for restored & maintained 914s.

Neither your nor my 914 will ever be the envelope pushing ultra-low-mile example like that yellow 75 1.8 which has a bit over 3K miles. Those are very few & far between, but well preserved (original with more than 20-100+K miles) & appropriately restored to original cars will fit into the #1-2 values.

The true hard core originality collectors will always go for the unmolested original low mile examples, & fall over each other to bid them up.

The next tier collector is looking for nicely maintained as original or restored to original example which they can drive & use a bit, show it, whatever. Those are maybe 20-30% of all 914s out there between preserved (less) & restored.

They're 2 different levels of collector car - with the ultra-low mile originals being maybe a "#0 - Ultra-Concours Museum Quality" level beyond #1. They are never rusted & never repaired, & they're probably less than 1% of all 914s.

So you doing a Euro P&C rebuild with the OE EFI with SSI HEs, using Koni or Bilstein shock/inserts, swapping out Euro TS lens/buckets or just the lenses (maintaining the originals to swap back), or using a cover at the F-sidemarker holes (maintaining the original Warts in storage to swap back) won't hurt your finished nor probably future value.

There are plenty of 356s & 911s/912s out there with numbers matching engines which have been tweaked a bit for more HP & TQ, which don't suffer less value, since they're still restored to originality & period correct.

Not every resto has to be 100% every part as original from the factory, since many of the parts are plain unavailable now.

So feel free to do those options within the envelope of originality, period correct, & within your budget of course.

BTW - There are some polished or painted body color covers for the wart holes which are advertised on evil-bay regularly. They mount over the holes & usually are seen with 914 on them. There may be someone on here who knows about them, or perhaps sells them. Those won't force you to weld in the holes to remove the warts, & be able to revert to original if desired at any future point.

PS - now if you were to do a bigger engine build 2056 - 2.& +/- like a FAT Performance, Raby, etc. - then I'd say to pull the numbers matching motor & EFI & hermetically seal & store it, then get another core 2.0 with which to build the hot motor. Again, an easy-ish step to swap back in the original engine if desired in the future.

PSS - I think that my son's 88 Civic Hatchback DX with the base 1.5L & 5-speed that we refurbed/resto'd together will probably out perform my 73 2L 914 on the straightaway too - probably not on the curves, & definitely not as much fun - but it is surprisingly fun & tossable to drive!

Good Luck!
Tom
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Posted by: SKL1 Aug 16 2017, 06:58 PM

Had my '71 since new and over the years have "improved" it with all OEM 6 suspension and brakes (won a door local PCA door prize in early 70's with 20% off parts so went wild) and converted to side shifter etc. Never going to sell so resale value doesn't matter to me.
My '73 is totally restored and also looks stock, though also has converted suspension and brakes to run Fuch's, etc. Not selling it either...

Have two boys who inherited the car gene from their dad and grandfather (who drove a 914 and 944 when alive) , so the cars will go to good homes...

Posted by: dlkawashima Aug 16 2017, 07:18 PM

I've mentioned in a previous thread that I've seen this car in person, went for a drive in it, and was offered first crack at purchasing it (which I declined). As you might imagine for a 3200 mile car, it was tight as a drum and I've never been in a 914 that rode as well as this one. The one downside was that it was dog slow and the engine didn't run nearly as smoothly as my own '73. Regarding the removal of the A/C, the owner told me he had Yeaman Auto Body do the job, so no worries about the quality of the repair work. As for signs of wear, there really isn't any, other than the carpet oddly pulling away from the gear shift lever.

I've talked to others about the car and virtually all have said they question the car's authenticity. All I can say is that it is easily the cleanest 4 cylinder 914 I've ever seen.

Posted by: Tom_T Aug 16 2017, 07:33 PM

Dave,

At the 3100+/- miles it's barely or not even broken in, so being tight doesn't surprise me.

As for the motor being a dawg - as my long time factory trained 914 mechanic says: "There are very few people out there who really understand how to make those [914] cars run right!"

It would be interesting to hear why the authenticity has been questioned.


Tom
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Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 16 2017, 07:52 PM

Not driving it, modifying it, or worrying about the resale value of your 914 is like not having sex with your smokin hot girlfriend, just so she'll be more desirable to her next boyfriend.



(Mark NAILS it.)

Posted by: PancakePorsche Aug 16 2017, 10:33 PM

I love to drive my original six, but I do wonder how long before some a-hole on the phone moves the engine forward about 12 inches. Luckily when it did recently happen I was in my Silverado.

Posted by: porschetub Aug 16 2017, 10:34 PM

What is pounding sand Tom ..honest don't know? just asking true,besides what is original? IMO these appear to be the most modified cars of any Porsche,FI delete is the main one and then most complain they can't get them running right and spent more money sorting that the original FI if they send it to a shop.
We have different steering wheels,oddball wheels ,non matching exterior paintwork ,the infamous centre mount Weber,fully flared cars with a stock 1.7 to name a few...I could go on.
I haven't been on here long but have seen prices creep over that time,even when a so called original cars come up there's always something that's been altered,don't think the market responses much to that they buy them because they think a low mileage car is better,that infact isn't the real story,low mileage to me = high maintenance been there .
In my country the offbeat cars that Porsche built have risen in price rather quickly ,944's and 928's have risen sharply ,as for anything 911 based they have gone mental world trends and the demise of the aircooled cars has dealt to that,fact I believe.

Posted by: 914 7T3 Aug 16 2017, 10:41 PM

Appreciate everyone's input on the subject and it appears that the Original cars or those restorations that are kept close to original are the minority in the 914 world and that's OK.

As I have said many times before I dig the conversions and what they can do performance wise. I also respect everyone's decision to build a car to suit their needs and definition of fun. Let's face it these cars are great in all incarnations.

With that being said, put me in the category of preferring a stock car. My bias comes from the fact that I was fortunate to find a '73 2.0 and its one of approx. 4,700 built in that model year and to me that makes it special. Its not a daily driver and its a blast to drive as is. There are a ton of canyon roads around here and I've got no use for any extra power.

Furthermore, like many of you I could also give zero f-cks about resale values as within 90 days I'll be upside down on mine, but it'll never be sold. She'll be driven and enjoyed (no trailer queens for me either).

I think this photo sums it up best and I'll leave it at that.

Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 17 2017, 08:48 AM

My bet is Tom doesn't even know what the term mean's.
He either want's me to fill in rat holes (menial work) or go visit a Vietnamese rub and tug.
He just gets pissey with anyone who doesn't bow down to his greatness and with me in general because I've called him on it a few times. He likes to be argumentative for argument sake and I won't play his games.




That is a nice teen and seeing as it's '73 2.0 which are sought after I would leave it stock. If your into that thing, great, doing what makes you happy is what this hobby is all about.
Screw what others think, in the end do what you want.

On your original question, I do think your car will go up in value, but never 911 or 356 coin. Say 20 years from now your car is worth $100K, which could happen, but by that time a 911 could be hitting close to $250K and 356's going for seven figures.
But then prices for everything will have gone the same way.

Collectors for the most part only want original cars, and are now showing interest in the 914 because besides the cool factor, they are affordable and available.
There is a greater number of collectors today than ever before, because they either did well in life and/or got a big inheritance. These are the cars of their childhood dreams and the shear number of them are driving prices up.

Posted by: Cal Aug 17 2017, 12:10 PM

I agree with 9147T3.....while I understand and appreciate modified 914's my preference is originality. It took me 2 years to find the '74 2.0L that I currently own. It's had one repaint due to clear coat failure in the early 80's....otherwise it's original and never been restored. Original 914's are very rare nowadays.





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Posted by: mepstein Aug 17 2017, 12:34 PM

Car and garage are looking great.

Posted by: kgruen2 Aug 19 2017, 02:06 AM

AAhhhh! Topanga and PCH. Great roads to drive the teener on.

Posted by: Edward Blume Aug 19 2017, 05:27 AM

I have always been in the "do whatever you want" category for stock vs modified. As a former AX chair / instructor, I always thought I'd need a modified car to make me happy.

Now that's changing.

I have a flared 2.4 (3.0?) /6 and its a beauty.

I look at Dad's car and remember it for what it was. Stock. Add to the fact that all I really want to do is drive it around town, I've decided to take it back to stock at some point in the future.

Here's what I'll do:
+ Replace tires with SR 165s
+ Find real NOS wheel caps
+ Replace Tarrett sway bar with stock sway bar
+ Replace Eibach springs and Bilsteins with stock springs and rebuilt Boges.
+ Replace LSD transmission with rebuilt stock transmission.
+ Rebuild the original number's matching case with a 1971cc (vs 2056) and sell the 3K mi 2056 in it now.

Non-Stock items:
+ Roller bearings stay
+ Chrome bumpers stay
+ No tits
+ SSIs
+ The front sway bar was not a part of my car's build (partial appearance package), but a stock bar is going in.
+ Rear Hood Shocks - this will piss some people off, but I like this mod and its not worth reversing unless i decide to reshoot the car.

Call me crazy, but after years of wanting more out of the 914 than it was created with, I'm now wanting less, and wanting what it was created like.

Cheers!

Posted by: somd914 Aug 19 2017, 06:25 AM

For 356s, just under 80,000 were produced over 16 years and was basically the birth of Porsche, thus a very special car.

It appears around 1,000,000 911s have been produced over 53 years, looks like perhaps 2,000 short wheelbase cars, and 80,000 long hood cars. The 911 is Porsche's icon. Mention Porsche to most anyone and a likely 911 pops into their mind, but not necessarily a 964, 993, 996, 997, or 991.

Approximately 118,000 914's were sold over a 7 year period and was meant to be the low-end model.

Numbers and production years speak to availability. Obviously with the 356 ending production in 1966, time has taken more of toll of availability let alone fewer produced.

Short wheelbase and long hood 911s are the most desirable, once again production numbers and age favor shorter supply.

I've noticed prices have stabilized or possibly fallen in the last year for SCs and Carreras as my son has been shopping for one.

Where will the collector market go? Who knows, but it doesn't matter to me. I do agree that original cars are always desirable, but as I mentioned in bbrock's Affect of Mods on Resale Value post, to me cars are personal as are houses, boats, etc and prefer to make them my own. Besides, all production cars are a compromise and can always be made better after the fact for specific purposes. I can say if 914's were commanding 911 or 356 prices, I wouldn't own them. Sure, I enjoy 914s, but for that type of money there are plenty of other cars out there that I enjoy more.

As for me, our collection will be passed to our kids, provided classic cars are still allowed on the road given our nation's ever increasing focus on safety, emissions, automation, etc. In the meantime I enjoy them and make them the way I want. For those who prefer bone stock, I appreciate seeing those cars, appreciate the time capsule perspective, appreciate the blood, sweat and tears that went into preserving/restoring them, however not something I want to own. But I'm glad we have options, for each their own, and I respect that.

Posted by: Dominic Aug 20 2017, 12:56 PM

When it comes to original cars and value...I think this one just made 914-4 history: Looks like it sold at Auction for $85k (someone posted that on instagram..have not seen results from rmsothebys)

http://www.rmsothebys.com/mo17/monterey/lots/1975-porsche-914-18/1703704