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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ replacing front shocks

Posted by: tat2dphreak May 18 2005, 12:54 PM

I re-read all of the old threads and couldn't find the real answer to this question: when do you need to replace the ball joints? should you do it on GPs when you change the front shocks? is there a visual inspection to look for to tell you when they NEED replacing?

I'm going to be doing the front shocks soon, but don't *really* want to do the ball joints until they need it... it's a pain on every vehicle, and it looks to be a double pain on the teener!

I read the tech article on paragon on replacing front shocks, and they never mention doing the ball-joints...

what about tie-rod ends? any other safety issues I should check out while I'm under there again?

Posted by: Mueller May 18 2005, 01:00 PM

if the boot is torn, if you have obvious signs of looseness that you cannot trace to any other part of the vehicle...if for some reason you feel they are 30 years old and original....

ball joints are one of those items that I've replaced just 'cause I didn't know the history of them and they appeared to be factory original (same about of crap on them as the a-arms)

they should be about a 20 minute job per side as long as you don't run into any problems

Posted by: Kargeek May 18 2005, 01:02 PM

How many miles on the car? 100,000 miles? change them. Look for torn boots, take a pry bar and see if there is movement in the ball joint. Actually, changing the ball joints is easy- it's been discussed here many times on how to take off the spanner nut. - Air chisel, special keyed socket tool, make your own tool etc. Tie rod ends? look for play and torn boots too. Might be a good time to upgrade to Turo tie rods, but stock versions are OK too. DH

Posted by: ArtechnikA May 18 2005, 01:03 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ May 18 2005, 02:54 PM)
I re-read all of the old threads and couldn't find the real answer to this question: when do you need to replace the ball joints? should you do it on GPs when you change the front shocks? is there a visual inspection to look for to tell you when they NEED replacing?

I'm going to be doing the front shocks soon, but don't *really* want to do the ball joints until they need it... it's a pain on every vehicle, and it looks to be a double pain on the teener!

I read the tech article on paragon on replacing front shocks, and they never mention doing the ball-joints...

what about tie-rod ends? any other safety issues I should check out while I'm under there again?

the only problem with ball joints is getting the 45mm nut off the bottom, and they usually respond to force, heat, and penetrating oil. an air hammer is a serious aid, but a 3-lb bronze hammer and a dull chisel or a solid punch will work.

the other problem is getting them out of the bottom of the strut. with the oldstyle pinchbolt struts i have had to gently tap in a small, sharp chisel to help spread the pinch. the wedge pin struts come out pretty easily, or at least they always have for me. again - careful heat and penetrating oil.

there should be ZERO vertical movement within the ball joint. you should be able to swivel the shank in any direction but it should NOT move axially. if the boot is shredded, replace the joint.

Posted by: tat2dphreak May 18 2005, 01:07 PM

ok, well, if I do it then what do I need besides the ball joints? do I need that special castle nut tool? also PP has a laundry list of "hardware" ... what will I be able to reuse, and what should I replace?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_suspen_pg4.htm#item17

20 minutes/side huh? it's been my experience that I am about 3x slower than everyone else... so I can bet on 2 hours for both... actually, it will probably 1.5 hours on the first one, and 30 minutes on the second

Posted by: tat2dphreak May 18 2005, 01:11 PM

ok, I'll take a look tonight and maybe post pics...

what about putting the castle nut BACK on? is it usually destroyed after removal?

Posted by: Travis Neff May 18 2005, 01:20 PM

I tried a chisel and BFH, and I gave up before I destroyed the nut (flattened chisel point). You can get new nuts for a few bucks each. You may want the pins as well, I needed one and the other was great.

I had a shop replace mine and saved/reused the nuts

You don't have to remove the strut from the A-arm to replace the front shocks, loosen/remove the top nut on the stut tower and pull down the shock and dust cap - then tilt it out of the fenderwell & replace.

Posted by: JOHNMAN May 18 2005, 01:41 PM

If you use the car hard at all, I would replace them every few years. They are cheaper than body work when one of them breaks.

I have had two of them break in the last few years at speed. I replace them every other winter now (on the track car).

For a mildly used car (such as a street car) I would consider changing them out every 5-6 years. (sooner if the boots are torn)

Posted by: tat2dphreak May 18 2005, 01:45 PM

QUOTE (JOHNMAN @ May 18 2005, 02:41 PM)
If you use the car hard at all, I would replace them every few years. They are cheaper than body work when one of them breaks.

I have had two of them break in the last few years at speed. I replace them every other winter now (on the track car).

For a mildly used car (such as a street car) I would consider changing them out every 5-6 years. (sooner if the boots are torn)

this is why I asked!

I had the unfortunate experience of a ball joint breaking on my old truck... at 50mph... very little damage to the truck, other than the cleaning bill on the seats... but it was a very scary experience... I didn't know if the 914's ball joints were prone to failure...

Posted by: ArtechnikA May 18 2005, 01:47 PM

QUOTE (tat2dphreak @ May 18 2005, 03:11 PM)
what about putting the castle nut BACK on? is it usually destroyed after removal?

IMO - you do not need the magick tool. there are several factory-trained mechanics here, and none of them used the tool - even when working at the dealer.

the big nuts are not "usually" destroyed, but it could happen. it does have a pretty fine thread, considering its diameter, so use some care (and antisieze) in re-installing lest it be cross-threaded. there's a torque spec (and it's pretty high but if you smack the nut until it is solidly on, you're good. there is a keeper to keep the big nut from turning, and a cotter pin to keep the keeper. it's not going to loosen on its own.

you will probably make things easier for yourself if you can shoot some PB Blaster up into the area the day before you start working on it. and if you have a small propane torch to hit the edges of the big nut so it'll expand just a little bit, that couldn't hurt either.

Posted by: tat2dphreak May 18 2005, 02:02 PM

Kick ass then I guess I'll order those parts soon... I think I can do it, at least I feel much more confident now than I did... when reading *how* to do it, it seems complicated, but I'm sure when you actually try to do it, it's not as bad... and of course I know where to ask if I have trouble...

Posted by: dralf May 18 2005, 02:33 PM

I did mine about 9 months ago, the nut did not want to come off even with a big ass pipe wrench and 4 ft long chearter bar, heat and penetrating oil and a few choice cuss words. I torqued so hard on those things that the car moved sideways but the nuts would not budge. I finally took a drill and drilled into the nuts for I would be replacing both the nuts and ball joints. That split the nuts and they came off in a wink. They were RUSTED into place
and never would have come off without dynamite.

Putting the new stuff on was fun, especially with that PP tool and 180 footpounds of torque. I did the tie-rod ends while the thing was apart and I was going to have to spend the money for an alignment afterwards anyway

Hope my story adds to your encouragement to go ahead and replace it all ! It is only money and peace of mind.