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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ CV joints again

Posted by: gklinger May 18 2005, 06:11 PM

So... I too am working to clean and relube my CV joints. Got one apart and cleaned, wear doesn't appear to be anything to be concerned about. I put it back together dry; went together fine. Now, there's no play at all between the inner and outer ball races. The cage moves in and out, the balls follow accordingly, but there is no movement at all in the relationship between the inner and outer parts. And so now I can't get the inner hub to swivel to get the damn thing back apart. WTF did I do now? Am I screwed?

Posted by: brp914 May 18 2005, 09:15 PM

well you answered your own question. Dang if 10 yrs ago I could work those things like a rubics cube w/o thinking about it. But had to do it again recently and ran into the problem you're having now. well, your post is 4hrs old so I guess you've discovered by now that if it goes together wrong you can wiggle it apart again. Hope you didn't put it back in the car like that. There is a right way and a wrong way. Or equal #'s of each. btw, cv's apparently are nla so treat 'em right.

Posted by: cha914 May 18 2005, 09:31 PM

edited cause I was wrong...look below...

Tony

Posted by: gklinger May 18 2005, 09:53 PM

QUOTE
I guess you've discovered by now that if it goes together wrong you can wiggle it apart again. Hope you didn't put it back in the car like that. There is a right way and a wrong way. Or equal #'s of each. btw, cv's apparently are nla so treat 'em right.

Had to go get some non-car (!) stuff done, so i haven't gotten this far yet. That's what was frustrating me - this damn thing went together, it's gotta come apart, but it sure doesn't wanna. I'll get back to it tomorrow.

QUOTE
add some lube I bet it will move again...I dont really think you could put it together wrong unless you used a big ass hammer.

I'll try that. And nope, no hammer, just hand pressure to get it screwed up, and didn't take much of that...

Thanks guys.

Posted by: RustyWa May 18 2005, 11:28 PM

If you put the joint together wrong, the way to get it apart again is you have to rotate the cage. The inner and outer will be locked together, so push on the cage.

v ^ v ^ v ^

Posted by: Mark Henry May 19 2005, 06:02 AM

Rusty has it.

Yep you can put it together the wrong way, done it many times myself. Take it apart and turn it one groove.

They are a puzzle but once together right they should move in and out freely.

Posted by: Headrage May 19 2005, 07:47 AM

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ May 19 2005, 05:02 AM)
Rusty has it.

Yep you can put it together the wrong way, done it many times myself. Take it apart and turn it one groove.

They are a puzzle but once together right they should move in and out freely.

I ran into the same problem when I did mine. The left one went back together fine but the rght one just didn't seem to want to go back together. It would go back together but wouldn't have any axial movement. After a few tries I rotated it over one groove and all was well. Make sure you get those snap rings on good when you re-install it.

Posted by: cha914 May 19 2005, 08:22 PM

Thanks guys for correcting me, I hope I didn't screw anybody up with my previous statement. I have edited my post so it wont lead anybody wrong in the future.

As Mark and Rusty said, you can put it together wrong, I think it actually goes together easier the wrong way, but then the joint won't move properly.

I am attaching a pic with the correct alignment...what I noticed when I was playing with it was if it is wrong then you will have the two narrow ridges in the lands facing eachother (I have highlighted those in red in the pic...red together is wrong) ...when you have it right the inner narrow ridge will be sitting inside the wider outer ridge...I have highlighted those in green...green is good)

I hope this helps, and I don't mean to be overly simple, but I obviously needed it spelled out for me...now time for a

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mark Henry May 19 2005, 08:27 PM

Those are funky looking dowel pins!

I just put mine on and they have real dowel pins!

I'd say those are bug CV's...at least the outer part is bug or something!

Posted by: cha914 May 19 2005, 08:58 PM

Strange...I will have to look at my other set of axles to see what the dowels look like. You have mentioned bug cv's a couple times now, are the 914 axles also 31 spline (I think thats right) axles that the bug has?

If bug cv's will work then maybe the great CV shortage isn't really an issue

Thanks again,

Tony

Posted by: Headrage May 19 2005, 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Mark Henry @ May 19 2005, 07:27 PM)
Those are funky looking dowel pins!

I just put mine on and they have real dowel pins!

I'd say those are bug CV's...at least the outer part is bug or something!

Both of my cars have CV's with the rolled dowel pins.

Maybe later models???

Posted by: Mark Henry May 20 2005, 05:45 AM

Mine is a '74 and has solid dowels...I could be wrong...it's be known to happen.
Maybe some years had those rolled dowels.

I do know that the CV boots you get nowdays are bug, don't know if the cv's can/can not fit though.
Just know the VW liked to use what was on the shelf.

Posted by: Gint May 20 2005, 07:09 AM

When I did the CV's on the 74 a coupld of years ago, the dowel pins were rolled.

Garry that picture is excellent! I found out the same thing (see above). I nominate this thread for classic status. It would nice to have that pic where you can find it easily. Other peopel are going to want that picture later.

What do you guys think?

I reduced the pic to 800x600 to illiminate the horizontal scroll bar.

Posted by: gklinger May 20 2005, 08:21 AM

Gint - not my picture, but it is a great one. I wished it was posted here before I hosed my CV - that's exactly what I did. I cannot get the damn thing apart again! I doesn't make any sense to me, I consider myself pretty good mechanically, but what's going on here? It went together easily - wrong - but no joy in getting it back apart. The cage moves some, but not enough to rotate it out. I'll post a pic later.

Posted by: cha914 May 20 2005, 09:53 AM

Gary, I had one that was hard to come back apart also. Keep pressing on the cage untill you get it to move a little, once you get one side to move, press on the opposite side in the other direction. Keep pressing back and fourth, also, kind of wiggle the middle of cv some, to see if you can get the balls to move, they are binding and that is what is keeping the cage from swinging all the way out. I had one that would only move about a 1/4inch then it seemed like it was stuck again, I just kept playing with it like I said above and it would suddenly come apart. Maybe adding a little bit of grease will help unstick those balls

Oh, sorry about the big pic size, I usually run a higher res on my monitor so I didn't notice it...

Yours,

Tony

Posted by: Gint May 20 2005, 10:31 AM

Tony's right. Thanks for the pic.

You just have to keep working that cage. It'll come eventually. IIRC, if you push the cage up to the point of resistance and then give it a very light tap with a small hammer or hammer and suitable drift (ala Haynes), it should move for you.

Posted by: gklinger May 20 2005, 04:59 PM

Success!

Took my Haynes Approved Suitable Drift™ and tapped lightly , damn thing swiveled right out.

Thanks everyone for the great advice and the picture! I love this place!

and to answer my own question: Sure as shit they can! be careful out there...

Posted by: Gint May 21 2005, 09:29 AM

Grats!

Moving to the Classics Forum. That picture is great.

Posted by: Gint Jan 14 2007, 11:58 AM

Mike Mueller provided a very good write up with pics in a recent htread in the garage.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=66848

QUOTE(Mueller @ Jan 14 2007, 12:15 AM)

follow the red spots..pay attention to the how the "point" goes to the "wide" section of the mating part.

starting at the top picture, if both hands are on the CV at the 9 and 3 o'clock postion, your fingers on your left hand would be pushing "up" while your thumb on the right hand would be pushing down.

When the middle section is about 90° to it's original postion, it will slide right out (with a little help, but not much)

reassembly is reverse...

Posted by: sawtooth Jan 28 2011, 12:46 AM

This classic saved my sanity tonight, thanks!

Posted by: detoxcowboy Jan 28 2011, 11:11 AM

I did same mistake my first time, and The Cap'n simpley stated "large to small" and that was it just like in the pics (lrg. geen area to sm. red area ect..) .. thus far I have only seen rolles dowel pins on at least 8-12 CV I had worked with or choice of.. 74 2.0 I bought had rolled dowels.. still does.. and also bought someones seals/cv kit or ? and that package came with rolled dowels too..

Posted by: Kansas 914 Sep 16 2015, 01:05 PM

These videos by Van are priceless:

https://youtu.be/LsytyVzokBg

https://youtu.be/KOma2BMhrzc