I got hit recently. the other drivers insurance has accepted full liability (yay!) but now they are trying to declare my car a total loss.
the good news:
- they aren't arguing condition, they are categorizing it excellent
- we're in the ballpark, they are valuing it at about the amount of the repair estimate, $22k
the bad news:
- they still want to total it
I don't want to allow it to be totaled because if I buy it back and repair it and am hit again I figure it really hurts my value for the next claim (which hopefully never happens, but...).
I can find plenty of threads on choosing an insurance provider, but didn't find much on arguing value. So
- any tips/help with establishing value for cars that are in excellent shape?
- any tips/help for strategy on fighting (and winning) with one of the major insurance providers?
I'm looking to collect comps in the $28k+ range (since that's what I need to avoid the total declaration). And yes, I've got the recent $93k car from monterery!
I'm also looking into lawyer options, figuring that can't hurt. Not sure how to go about finding a good lawyer to help with an unusual car value.
any help appreciated.
Sorry , this is everybody's worst nightmere
But it looks like its totaled to me ?
And no way you could reproduce this car
Before the hit for 22k more like 29k $
With that paint , does not look cheap .
When the insurance company doesnt even
Know " what kinda car this is " how can you even expect
To get a fair shake
Drink a shot of johnnie blue and try to forget
There's a lawer who advertises in the local PCA magazine that he takes dimished value cases. Is that what you're looking for?
I can find plenty of threads on choosing an insurance provider, but didn't find much on arguing value. So
- any tips/help with establishing value for cars that are in excellent shape?
- any tips/help for strategy on fighting (and winning) with one of the major insurance providers?
Grundy
Agreed value , thats that
Sorry to hear about your car. It looks like a beauty.
In late 2011 I rebuilt and upgraded the entire drive train in my 86 944 Turbo. I rebuilt, upgraded and/or replaced everything from the air filter to the tail pipe. Less than a month after finishing it, I go rear ended on the freeway. My car ended up being totaled but I didn't really fight them on that, I just wanted a reasonable settlement.
So my situation was not exactly like yours but i did the insurance company song and dance. The guy who hit me had nationwide insurance and despite their smarmy commercials, they absolutely NOT on my side.
My first advice based on that experience is don't be in a rush. They seemed to want to get me to settle as fast as possible for as little as possible.
My second piece of advice is be prepared for them to lie to you about everything. About a month into my experience I got a call from someone in their claims department pushing me to settle soon because the daily storage charges on my car were starting to take a big chunk of the money I would receive when I finally did settle. Our conversation was not pleasant for her because I knew she was lying. I knew that I was not getting charged storage fees because my wrecked car was sitting in MY GARAGE!!! She didn't even seem embarrassed to be caught in a bold faced lie.
I waited a long time and when nationwide stopped moving forward, I got my insurance involved through my agent whom I had been dealing with for years for home, auto, business, and life insurance. Knowing my agent and especially his staff was extremely helpful in getting a proper settlement. The final settlement was more than double the original offer and it included me getting the car back.
So, take your time, fight for everything you want and bring in your own insurance if you don't get what you want from the other drivers.
Best of luck.
I am very sorry to see such carnage. It was sure beautiful.
on values, I would look at Excellence, BAT, cars sold on this site close to your level Research as many sales close to your options and fit and finish. You want massive irrefutable documentation on values.
Next classic car only go with Agreed Value insurance. Haggerty, American Classic, Grundy, etc, then you won't have to go this route.
OMG that makes me ,such a nice car,sorry I don't see that cost in the repair.
Front cut welded in the ,paint is fresh so little cost there ,however I don't know labour rates in the USA,without seeing more pics I may be off beat but.....
Edit .....sorry didn't read your reply,you mentioned driving the car in that case it would surely pull out on a rack,again don't see that repair cost.
Like Porschetub is also mentioning...does not look too bad to me that it should be totalled. Looks very repairable for a professioal shop. You mention it is because of all the bodywork that was done already. That is something I cannot see/judge from the pics.
I hope it turns out ok.
I know you don't want to think of this...but an alternative Plan D could be taking the 22K with keeping the car and sell the car to Europe for 5K. That gives you 27K and the car will have its next life across the big pond.
Again...i hope it works out for you...
Send it to Kent........he can fix that.
thanks everyone. no issues with getting it fixed. a big part of the cost is color matching the 3 stage paint that's on it.
Looking for help with valuation and fighting with insurance.
Went through similar when my mother was hit and totaled in her fairly pristine 4 year Accord.
The proposed settlement was well below market value with much pressure to accept a quick settlement. We collected all sorts of comps which was easy to do on that car. Additionally Snake Farm and her agent of 30+ years promised to fight for her to get market value from the other driver's insurance company. That fight fizzled quickly.
Ultimately she ended up settling for several thousand below market as she needed a car and couldn't afford to keep paying for a rental - the fight wasn't worth it to her.
One of the issues we had with comps was for every one we had, they had a lower comp, generally for cars of more mileage and lesser condition, but a comp in their favor. Additionally they argued the higher comps came from sale ads, thus selling price was likely significantly lower. I've fought similar battles on home appraisals - make the comps show the desired value... It's difficult to establish comps in your case, especially given you are on the high end and don't have verifiable selling prices for other cars out there.
Given insurance laws and consumer protection laws vary from state-to-state, I'd consult an attorney and see what your rights are, and see what he/she recommends.
Good luck, and BTW, she looks beautiful despite the damage - fix her if possible and keep her going.
Get a lawyer to deal with the insurance issues for you. They know the insurance and outs and will argue your case. You will do better than on your own. Many personal injury firms have someone who only deals with insurance companies.
First off, I don't see a totaled car, I see a damaged car. It crumpled right where it was supposed to by design. The bulkhead "looks" to be just fine, or perhaps I'm not seeing the big picture. If this was a 356 I bet it would be repaired.
It reads as though your major problem is it is a DD. So a used Honda for now?
Yep, you can hire a lawyer but the charge may outweigh the result you desire.
Patience, as others have mentioned. The insurance companies job is to pay you as little as possible, your job is to get as much as you can.
What ever the outcome, avoid the vehicle being assigned a salvage title........that is always the death blow to future value.
Paint match is not a big deal. The boys have it down to science.
Fuck Brad! Speechless! don't accept a branded title. Your car is not totaled. You didn't mention it being your DD to anyone did you? Don't you normally use sound transit? Hint, hint.
So sorry to see this Brad, that's such a beautiful car. I would call John Kincl @360.895.1766. He is a long time auto appraiser who has dealt extensively with insurance companies on exactly this issue. I've seen him get some great results for people I know. He would probably do an appraisal of the car and work from there. Tell him Marc Ogren sent you. I've known him for over 25 years.
Good luck.
Where did this incident happen?
no figuring this out. No matter how hard I try.
Bradtho, I not an expert, but.......there's a statement in all insurance policies that says (THEY HAVE TO MAKE YOU WHOLE), which means what is the real replacement value.......If you tried to buy (replace) your 914 with nothing less than you have...what is that price. Is it 22k or29k. If it is 29k then your good.
I used this over the last 30 years with two small accidents I had...first one was with a Saab (it was totaled) Insurance was only willing to pay $4,500 when it was worth $6,500. To prove this to the insurance company I did all the leg work to find a replacement Saab, same year and miles. Guess what, the price to $6,800. They sent a check for 6,800. The second was last year. My 2000 VW TDI with 400,000 miles was totaled. Insurance again said it was worth 2,000. Yup, high miles but well maintained with new injectors, timing belt, new trans., etc. Showed them replacement cost would be 5,000. I agreed on 4,500 and also removed the new transmission. So, go find a car as nice as yours and use that for leaverage. Best, Mark
I think you need to pull out the BBQ and invite us all over to your place for a wake. Not that the car should be totaled, just as an excuse to stand around and mull over the damages.
Looky here:
http://bowlsby.net/914/Classic/RecentSales.htm
Sorry to hear this.
My 1st 914 was totaled as well.
I was with Haggerty
I got a check from them for agreed value no problem.
On top of this I was able to buy the car back and the title was re-issued clean not salvaged.
When I asked about it, they responded by saying there is a percentage calculation they conduct and if the damage falls between these two number they can re-issue a clean title
Having the clean title allowed me to sell the damaged car to someone who loved 914 and owned his own shop.
Hope this helps
Mike
Can't help with the insurance but that can certainly be fixed by a reputable shop with a Celette bench.
There's no way i would accept a total loss on that car ...
My first 914 was also totaled by one illegal alien these another illegal alien how to drive. When it came time to settle with my ins co. I was told that Porsches are not worth as much because it's winter. This was in the early eighties when Auto trader was are internet. I got copies of there Calif editions cut and pasted 10 cars like mine, averaged the high and low and asked for the middle price. I had all this on a large piece of paper. The ins guys jaw hit the floor. I remember him telling me know one had ever done this before. He settled my claim on the spot.
Also ask for a full repaint and or find a repair shop that will paint the whole car with the ins settlement money.
thanks Pete. the car is still a 1.7. I have a 3.2 and all the fixin's all ready to go in, but it isn't in yet.
Brad - If you want more info on John, give me a call - Four-two-five.235.8383. He's a good guy to have in your corner and way cheaper than a lawyer. He's got all the sources for establishing value and the insurance companies don't like to see him coming.
OK - $22K Excellent Condition... for a stock car.....
Plus
15 x 7 911 Fuch Wheels $2,000
Full 911 Suspension - $4,000
Metallic Paint and ClearCoat - $5000
Plus
Plus
Plus
you get the idea...
Don't want to value the parts? OK, I'll take $22K plus the car as is. If there's no decision in 48 hours, I'll hand the matter over to legal counsel and not return any phone calls.
Try contacting your state's Insurance commission and tell them you're not getting a full value settlement offer for your loss. This may work before committing to the expense of an attorney. I had to do this very thing myself for 68 911 I restored and unfortunately was totaled in an accident when I let a friend drive it... The ins co offered me a low ball offer and after going back and forth with them for about two weeks I contacted the commission and then after also writing a letter to them with details on the condition with comp values, the insurance company offered me the fair market value two weeks later. I ultimately negotiated $1000 less in the settlement to be able to keep the wreckage and I sold parts for four years after.
If you decide to have the unibody pulled and straightened, Queen City in Redmond specializes in Porsches and is the only local shop certified by Porsche to do the repairs correctly. They have a Celette table and all you need to make your baby whole again. They have worked on both my cars and wife's A6 and their work is flawless.
My experience has always been insurance companies want to settle fast so if you aren't in a hurry, drag it out, they pay more as time goes. Also, getting an attorney involved might help, or threaten to get an attorney, tell them you have a name of an attorney, give them the name, say that's the next step.
Bottom line though is if you do your research and it's sound, stand by it, hold your ground. You will probably get 90% of what you want.
Sad story,,with a happy ending...Gold 914
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AF0wMDJhAsc
2 year old post
Great to see that car repaired and back on the road!
So cool to see this gold 914 lived on—it's truly a great looking build, and the repairs and paint sure look good in the video. So it's in Lithuania now?
Great to see it back on the road... We saw this car many times in Kirkland cruising the beach
Sorry your going though this hassle.
Had a similar issue after hitting a 100 lb dog. Not as extensive as yours but still an issue that took a couple months to remedy. It can be fixed. By the way the dog is OK.
Replaced the bumper, bumper top , hood release and air dam. Damage was to the front sheet metal making the trunk/hood unable to open. Creased the fender adjacent to the hood and next to the turn signal indicator. Trunk damage at inner fender location. All was pulled/pushed out successfully. Had paint left over. Headlight bucket cover and eyebrow also painted.
After all was done you cannot tell that the car was damaged at all. Cost for insurance was $7000 and it took 6 weeks.
As it's not my daily driver I could wait.
My insurance, Progressive, made it all happen with little to no hassle for me. Helped that the shop in Columbus Ohio handles Porsche 914 work. They even had a brand new bumper in primer !!! Last one though.
Its revived for a happy end to the bs.Brad went through.. Lithuania
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As fare as it being totaled. The statement is " They have to make you whole".
So you find a like replacement for sale or not for sake in that good of condition etc.
Could be $28/30/35,000. And that is they have to pay you. And at the same time negotiate the buy back. I've used the whole statement three times, worked every time. Best, Mark
CHeck out The Mart toward the end of each issue of Panorama magazine. Might try to get some recent back issues, too. That's why I have an "agreed upon value" insurance policy. Good luck and best wishes.
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