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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Clutch arm position ?
Posted by: porschetub Oct 1 2017, 04:55 PM
Based on what I have studied I seem to think this is not right,new pressure plate/disk,new cable,rebuilt pedal assembly etc ,etc and unknown flywheel in good condition,thinking it has been heavily machined,pedal adjustment is by the book...my idea is the lever is hitting the trans case when pedal fully down...help please before I pull the g/box again.
TIA guys.
P.S.clutch cable tube is fine.
Posted by: mobymutt Oct 1 2017, 05:19 PM
Mine was doing the same thing -- I adjusted the clutch pedal stop bar (under the clutch pedal). But I'm a newbie, so hopefully somebody else will chime in.
Is that nut/stud in the pic some kind of clutch arm stop? I don't remember seeing that on mine.
Posted by: ndfrigi Oct 1 2017, 05:44 PM
Mine was doing the same thing -- I adjusted the clutch pedal stop bar (under the clutch pedal). But I'm a newbie, so hopefully somebody else will chime in.
Is that nut/stud in the pic some kind of clutch arm stop? I don't remember seeing that on mine.
Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 1 2017, 05:59 PM
I think he meant the silver nut at the edge of the clutch arm.
Posted by: mobymutt Oct 1 2017, 06:31 PM
I did, but I suspect it's just the back end of a housing bolt.
Sorry, back on topic now...
Posted by: r_towle Oct 1 2017, 06:37 PM
You can shim the clutch release fork pivot ball to compensate for the flywheel difference from the spec , you can also heat and bend the release fork towards the front of the car.
Lastly, get a new flywheel.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 1 2017, 09:00 PM
You can shim the clutch release fork pivot ball to compensate for the flywheel difference from the spec , you can also heat and bend the release fork towards the front of the car.
Lastly, get a new flywheel.
Yes obviously that's my next step,just thinking someone may say the release arm is a little too far towards the rear,living on my own in the country I have no one to push the pedal,I do know a really nice girl down the road 5km's away...food for thought or just
.I will jack the car up further and check for a contact point on the release arm meanwhile.
Posted by: ndfrigi Oct 1 2017, 09:24 PM
You can shim the clutch release fork pivot ball to compensate for the flywheel difference from the spec , you can also heat and bend the release fork towards the front of the car.
Lastly, get a new flywheel.
Yes obviously that's my next step,just thinking someone may say the release arm is a little too far towards the rear,living on my own in the country I have no one to push the pedal,I do know a really nice girl down the road 5km's away...food for thought or just
.I will jack the car up further and check for a contact point on the release arm meanwhile.
Sir Dean, is your clutch now working well and is the engage just around 1/4 when releasing the pedal? It might just need tightening a little more?
Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 1 2017, 09:31 PM
Put some washers under the cable nut. If that's a nyloc nut on the cable you might want to back it Up with a jam nut.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 1 2017, 10:01 PM
You can shim the clutch release fork pivot ball to compensate for the flywheel difference from the spec , you can also heat and bend the release fork towards the front of the car.
Lastly, get a new flywheel.
Yes obviously that's my next step,just thinking someone may say the release arm is a little too far towards the rear,living on my own in the country I have no one to push the pedal,I do know a really nice girl down the road 5km's away...food for thought or just
.I will jack the car up further and check for a contact point on the release arm meanwhile.
Sir Dean, is your clutch now working well and is the engage just around 1/4 when releasing the pedal? It might just need tightening a little more?
Noel thanks,nah its a machined flywheel no question...bought it off a key player on here and he got it wrong...not throwing stones as the price was right.
I checked and have a contact point on the arm to gearbox so all isn't great ,box is getting ready to come out now,time for a pivot ball washer.
Hope you are well my friend,thanks.
Posted by: mgphoto Oct 2 2017, 03:53 PM
Adding washers or extending anything to compensate for the issue of the resurfaced flywheel will only cause the arm to contact the transmission body and you will break the welds and pull out the clutch cable tube, that is the weakest point.
New flywheel or shims under the pivot ball.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 2 2017, 05:31 PM
Adding washers or extending anything to compensate for the issue of the resurfaced flywheel will only cause the arm to contact the transmission body and you will break the welds and pull out the clutch cable tube, that is the weakest point.
New flywheel or shims under the pivot ball.
Exactly ,that's why I'am stuck under the car pulling to trans
,been there and done all that sh#t,think I have the same issue forresthaag had with his setup.Have a noticeable contact point on one of the diff side cover nuts,easy to see.
Will report back but I'am slow @ these jobs
.
Posted by: r_towle Oct 2 2017, 06:24 PM
Cut a board to fit sideways in front of the seat to protect the seat. Cut a board to push against the clutch pedal and the other board to hold the pedal down.
Or
Pack around the clutch release fork with clay
Push pedal
Go measure clay
You should feel it hit the tranny case at the back if the condition you believe actually exists.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 2 2017, 10:37 PM
Cut a board to fit sideways in front of the seat to protect the seat. Cut a board to push against the clutch pedal and the other board to hold the pedal down.
Or
Pack around the clutch release fork with clay
Push pedal
Go measure clay
You should feel it hit the tranny case at the back if the condition you believe actually exists.
Thanks but no need ,confirmed the lever was hitting....too much "lost motion" on the arm besides.
How the hell do I remove the pivot ball,
who was the moron that designed that 
.Posted by: Lucky9146 Oct 2 2017, 11:03 PM
Cut a board to fit sideways in front of the seat to protect the seat. Cut a board to push against the clutch pedal and the other board to hold the pedal down.
Or
Pack around the clutch release fork with clay
Push pedal
Go measure clay
You should feel it hit the tranny case at the back if the condition you believe actually exists.
Thanks but no need ,confirmed the lever was hitting....too much "lost motion" on the arm besides.
How the hell do I remove the pivot ball,
who was the moron that designed that .You can put a shim under the shift ball bushing in the shift arm. See my thread post #181
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=261197
Gook luck
Posted by: mark04usa Oct 2 2017, 11:07 PM
Clearance is an issue. I use a 1/4" drive deep Snap-On socket...only one I found with thin enough wall to fit. IIRC its a 13mm 
Posted by: porschetub Oct 3 2017, 12:01 PM
Cut a board to fit sideways in front of the seat to protect the seat. Cut a board to push against the clutch pedal and the other board to hold the pedal down.
Or
Pack around the clutch release fork with clay
Push pedal
Go measure clay
You should feel it hit the tranny case at the back if the condition you believe actually exists.
Thanks but no need ,confirmed the lever was hitting....too much "lost motion" on the arm besides.
How the hell do I remove the pivot ball,
who was the moron that designed that .You can put a shim under the shift ball bushing in the shift arm. See my thread post #181
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=261197
Gook luck
Thanks Jim,would do but don't have a replacement,can't see a way to remove the (new) one that's in there without busting it
.Mark thanks got the jist of removing it ...just venting cause I wanted to refit it and had the time.
Not sure about the size of the hex on it ? looks like 14mm ,anyway will overcome this issue.
Decided this morning not to rush it cause will do a few job's "while I'am in there",will
replace rear engine tin seal and fix a few other minor issues,
.Posted by: porschetub Oct 3 2017, 06:03 PM
Mongreled a thin wall cheapo $1 socket ,bored it out with 14mm drill to get clearance over the ball on the pivot,worked a treat.
When I removed the pivot I noticed a strong smell of gearoil,appears the mounting hole is a steel threaded insert going into the case but open ended.
PET shows a washer underneath of 8mm x 4mm...not what I found,more like 1.5 thick so added another washer 1.5mm as the one I found.
Resealed and put it back in fingers crossed for a result.
More to follow .
Posted by: r_towle Oct 3 2017, 10:17 PM
Measure the flywheel to see how much was ground off.
Spec is here somewhere in a diagram. Search for flywheel, should be easy to find.
Adding two washers is not unheard of. After two it's time for a new flywheel.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 4 2017, 03:45 AM
Measure the flywheel to see how much was ground off.
Spec is here somewhere in a diagram. Search for flywheel, should be easy to find.
Adding two washers is not unheard of. After two it's time for a new flywheel.
Never found a spec on flywheel resurface ,one I found didn't meet my engine build number,had a Haynes manual but lost it sometime ago bugger it.
Pretty happy and that this will sort my main issue.
Box is all back together ,hopefully back in car very soon.
Posted by: Dr Evil Oct 4 2017, 11:01 AM
Im at work so don't have diagram here, unfortunately. As for shimming with one standard washer under the pivot ball, that is not an issue and has been done hundreds of times. The real issue is if your flywheel is machined down so much that the retaining bolts hit the pressure plate (many here have seen that). I have a deep 14mm socket to get the ball out, it did bevel the edge so it fits in the recession. No need to over torque it. I use a wrap of Teflon tape after I shim to make sure it seals in leaks form the tranz. Its only a small amount of tape, but it keeps things clean and wont foul up anything.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 4 2017, 12:41 PM
Im at work so don't have diagram here, unfortunately. As for shimming with one standard washer under the pivot ball, that is not an issue and has been done hundreds of times. The real issue is if your flywheel is machined down so much that the retaining bolts hit the pressure plate (many here have seen that). I have a deep 14mm socket to get the ball out, it did bevel the edge so it fits in the recession. No need to over torque it. I use a wrap of Teflon tape after I shim to make sure it seals in leaks form the tranz. Its only a small amount of tape, but it keeps things clean and wont foul up anything.
Thanks for chiming in Dr,flywheel was received in used condition,the clutch running surface was spot on ,it didn't appear to have been heavily machined.
Fairly recently removed the clutch and found nothing unusual,if you do have the flywheel drawing I would appreciate if you could put it up on here,
Posted by: johnhora Oct 4 2017, 02:44 PM
here you go...flywheel specs
Posted by: Dr Evil Oct 4 2017, 03:39 PM
Rock on! I just got home....so no need to do this on my end.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 4 2017, 03:51 PM
Thanks guys ,getting ready to refit box,will pull clutch and check,thats the bloody pic I couldn't find 
.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 4 2017, 04:08 PM
Ok got the clutch out,all in order,my digital verniers measure,just under the limit of "A" measurement so my thinking is the flywheel has had one reface ???.
Think I'am on the right track ,thanks heaps.
Posted by: johnhora Oct 4 2017, 07:03 PM
porschetub...
also check the fork....there is a little plastic "bearing" in the hole for the ball.
PN 901-116-741-01 Pivot Bushing for Clutch Release Fork
these sometimes get cracked and worn.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/9144/POR_9144_TCLUTC_pg4.htm#item20
Posted by: porschetub Oct 4 2017, 11:30 PM
porschetub...
also check the fork....there is a little plastic "bearing" in the hole for the ball.
PN 901-116-741-01 Pivot Bushing for Clutch Release Fork
these sometimes get cracked and worn.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/9144/POR_9144_TCLUTC_pg4.htm#item20
Thanks John,that parts new as for the rest of those parts in that area.
Box is back in the car,clutch (non running) seems different to me cause it not fouling on the trans case perhaps....
Posted by: r_towle Oct 5 2017, 04:01 PM
Broken spring in pressure plate is hard to test.
Seen it, replaced it.
Posted by: porschetub Oct 6 2017, 01:45 AM
Broken spring in pressure plate is hard to test.
Seen it, replaced it.
P/P plate is new (nos),freeplay in lever is exacty as stated,your trick worked fine,piece of wood under pedal braced to rear firewall and 4mm clearance on the trans case with the release arm,no more contact...happy camper.
No muffler but wanted to start motor to check other stuff.....started straight off,holy what a sound
...these motors .EDIT,was thinking what they sound like on megaphones
.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 6 2017, 02:34 PM
here you go...flywheel specs
Notice the upper-right corner. These specs are specifically for the 914-6, not the four-cylinder motors.
I believe the numbers do work "well enough" for the four-bangers, but the diagram specifically is for the Six.
I have never found an official diagram for the four-cylinder flywheel tolerances.
--DD
Posted by: porschetub Oct 7 2017, 01:17 PM
here you go...flywheel specs
Notice the upper-right corner. These specs are specifically for the 914-6, not the four-cylinder motors.
I believe the numbers do work "well enough" for the four-bangers, but the diagram specifically is for the Six.
I have never found an official diagram for the four-cylinder flywheel tolerances.
--DD
Pretty sure those specs are right,my flywheel is 911 the only difference is that the 914/6 one has a timing mark on it as far as I know.
Interesting how they mention machining with a lathe ?
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