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Posted by: jim_hoyland Dec 14 2017, 11:15 AM

An overseas member asked me about 914 pricies in the US; what would be a reliable sources to do this ?

My first thoughts were eBay because it’s an auction venue and my second thought is the Hagerty Guide.

If you have a link to share, i’ll Forward it and he will be gratefull

Posted by: campbellcj Dec 14 2017, 11:20 AM

I'm not sure of their sources or thoroughness, but one provider is Excellence Magazine's annual buyer's guide issues.

Posted by: Tom_T Dec 14 2017, 11:21 AM

Switch those around Jim, since Hagerty bases their values on the broad market, whereas evil-bay is a smaller slice & you all too often don't have access to the actual sales price after a little while.

Cars.com, CarGurus & AutoTrader are not values, but asking prices in their "valuations" - as are evil-bay listings until a sale price is posted (the others never post a "sold for" price), & both NADA & KBB don't do a good job on any classic or collectable cars' values at all.

PS - Excellence has been lazy & out of date on values for 5+ years now, & worse after Pete Stout left. They don't even correct errors in the Buying Guides from year to year, even with members here, & those for other models' sites sending them the corrections. So Excellence has tarnished in recent years IMHO!

Happy Holidays!
Tom
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Posted by: vitaminC Dec 14 2017, 11:25 AM

You can see some price history for the cars sold on BaT.
https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/914/

Posted by: SKL1 Dec 14 2017, 04:19 PM

Agree with Hagerty and BAT as best sources.

Excellence is too dated by the time it is published.

Posted by: burton73 Dec 14 2017, 05:03 PM

I looked on Hagerty car values today and you have a low to high on conduction. But for some people a perfect, nice car is really not that perfect. There can be a big spread. Is a car almost concourse or primo. #1.5 or #2

Bob B

Posted by: SKL1 Dec 14 2017, 05:11 PM

Of course the spread can be deceiving too- what some people call "concours" may just be fair to others. I've seen some cars people say are near perfect, and in person I'd rate them a 5 out of 10.
Especially if it is a "non-car" person, their idea of a clean car is no where close to mine!!

Posted by: jim_hoyland Dec 14 2017, 05:14 PM

Thanks for the suggestions; I've forwarded these two.

Posted by: porschetub Dec 14 2017, 10:03 PM

Ignoring the uber low mileage cars which have gone somewhat mental lately, IMO pricing on here is a fair indicator ,the ones that don't sell are overpriced or not up to the mark,good honest cars with maintenance done @ a fair price seem to sell fast.
Auction prices can go a bit silly and aren't a really honest indicator.
Location is as an issue to be considered due to transporter cost on many cars for sale also.

Posted by: ConeDodger Dec 14 2017, 10:13 PM

Taking nothing away from Pete Stout, I’d say the decline in the valuation issue came about with Bruce Anderson’s sickness and ultimate death...

Posted by: Ansbacher Dec 15 2017, 11:33 AM

If your friend is looking for a -4, why not just tell him this:

0-3K for a parts car
3-8K for a ragged driver
9-15K for a decent driver
16-20K for a really nice driver
21-35K for the best out there

U.S. Dollars of course.

Ansbacher

Posted by: marksteinhilber Dec 15 2017, 04:18 PM

Agree with Ansbacher. If you go on Craigslist Los Angeles and area, there are usually 5-10 cars on there, mostly tubs, rollers, in progress projects, drivers, and then restorations, conversions, and sometimes original well maintained 4s and 6s. These are asking prices, so sales prices may be 50% to 100% of the asking price, but you get a sense that Ansbacher's table is indicative of the selling prices. Price on project cars are often based on the costs incurred in the collection of good useable parts, new rubber, interior, and trim.

Posted by: TJB/914 Dec 15 2017, 04:34 PM

I believe 95% of the 914-4's for sale are in the $3K to $20K market
When looking for the $20K++ and up, 914's are few and rare to find.
Why?? Because 914 NOS and good parts are expensive
Good thing we have 914 reproduction sources.
Tom

Posted by: marksteinhilber Dec 15 2017, 04:57 PM

True. More restorations now with suppliers like PMB, RD, 914rubber, Tangerine, Pelican, Sierra Madre, etc. Hence demand for tubs, rollers are all on upswing.

Posted by: Andyrew Dec 15 2017, 05:08 PM

I believe that were finally at the point with the solid chassis still being low enough and the critical items being reproduced so well that someone can actually make a very nice driver out of a 914, outsource the rebuild of the engine and bodywork, build it up and turn it around for a (small) profit.

Posted by: DavidSweden Dec 15 2017, 05:09 PM

Perhaps a little off topic but I could not stop myself...
Lets face it 914´s are cheap compared to the 911. However it is a very under appreciated vehicle probably due to the engine, a 6 is so much sexier, don't you agree?
Its great that the 914 is cheap (ish) and long may it be so. Its a friendly car and there are a lot of upgrades you can do to it. For me the 914 is not an investment its a plaything, the working mans Porsche I´m all for it

Posted by: burton73 Dec 15 2017, 05:21 PM

What was a 356 or a 912?

Posted by: DavidSweden Dec 15 2017, 05:33 PM

I have a 912 manufactured 1965 Euro spec. The short wheel base cars look great. I got mine when the prices were affordable now I could not consider buying one in scandinavia on my meager income. The 356 is also a good looking car but not affordable for the working man. Wages for the middle class have fallen considerably since the 70´s I guess everyone fell for that "trickle down" bullshit the politicians fed us....but that is probably another thread

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 26 2018, 06:16 PM

No problem and no ego here.

Looking back years later, the Market Reports were a tough one throughout my time at Excellence. "Good idea," but difficult to execute well. Bruce and I tried a lot of things to get them right, or righter, but the reality is that assigning "values" on a national (international?) basis on a too-small sample size with hazy "condition buckets" is fraught.

I can't remember if I nixed the Market Values before or after Bruce passed away, but they eventually came back as separate-issue buyers's guides (I had nothing to do with these). Haven't read one in years...the values of the cars have never been interesting to me other than when I go to buy a car, and I find it's far easier to determine one car's value within a ballpark than it is to determine the value of all or even most example of a given model...especially as the years go by.

Posted by: halmil Jan 26 2018, 06:28 PM

Sports Car Market magazine has a database of public auction sales, so real numbers. They send an annual or semi-annual price guide to subscribers. Platinum subscribers have access to their database.

73-74 914 2.0 median price was $12k

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 26 2018, 06:53 PM

Used to get hammered with those values all the time—but I was always hesitant to point to them as conclusive data points. Public auctions are a show/production and come with their own problems (good car? bad car? right audience with the right 2-3 buyers? no?). So they're a data point, but a suspect one for a variety of reasons. Each sale should be scrutinized before being entered as indicative, but that's not realistic.

Insurance values by specialty companies are another data point.

Bring a Trailer is becoming a better and better data point, for a lot of reasons.

Me? I'd put the three above together with Excellence values and a survey of the asking prices here on 914world.com and then...give data points later…you might have something.

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 26 2018, 07:53 PM

The biggest problem with using price guides is no one is ever honest (to you or themselves) of the quality or condition of their car. If it has shiny paint it's always described as a #1 or #2, even if it's a 5. Or my favorite, when someone tells me what a price guide says and I have to politely tell them that the price guide stops at 5 and their car is a 9, if there was a 9!
Your best bet is check completed auctions on ebay and bat, that will give you real prices and you can actually see the cars, not a "value description".

Perfect example of an owner not coming to terms with the true condition of his car. I went to go see a car several years ago, described as,
"All body work done, ready for paint, matching numbers, new floors."

The "new floors" were put in sometime in the 80s, my foot went through them. The "body work" was tragic, and I asked who did it, he said he taught shop at the local high school, the kids learned on the car.

We didn't see eye to eye on the car.

Oh, and you can't go off of the big auctions either, that is a fairy tale land where rules don't apply. People often quote Scottsdale auction pricing and I give them a comparison. I say those auctions are like watching a Paris runway show, seeing an Yves St Laurent gown flow by, and then you compare that the dress that's on the rack at the mall, at the Yves store, yes they are both dresses, yes they are both Yves, but you can't really compare them.


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Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jan 26 2018, 08:12 PM

^ FULLY agree.

Applying one size fits all (or three sizes fits all) to vintage Porsche values doesn't make any sense to me. There also comes a point when mileage and other factors that affect new and late-model cars no longer matter with 40-60yo cars—unless we are talking about the literal "hen teeth" 40-60yo cars with extremely low mileage. When a car reaches a certain age, condition is king, and then it's a matter of establishing the value of that ONE car based on a lot of factors. As Bruce liked to say, that's usually done by adults behind closed doors.

I miss Bruce. A lot.