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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Welding question: Argon for MIG?

Posted by: Series9 May 28 2005, 07:50 PM

I just got a MIG welder to keep my TIG company in the garage.

Can I use 100% argon with the MIG?

I've been through a few welding books and can't find a good answer. Most of the opinions suggest that CO2 mix is used to save money over pure argon, but don't really say wheather or not 100% argon is appropriate for MIG welding.

If I can have one bottle, it would be easier.

Posted by: trekkor May 28 2005, 07:55 PM

I use straight CO2 with my MIG.
Lasts four times as long as bi-mix and costs half the price.

Straight Argon would be rather pricy, don't you think?

KT

Posted by: Jeroen May 28 2005, 07:55 PM

I think MIG gas is 80% Argon and 20% CO2
It comes pre-mixed, so no need for seperate bottles

Dunno if 100% Argon wurks...

Posted by: LvSteveH May 28 2005, 08:00 PM

We've been using 84% Argon/ 16% CO2, so you are getting closer to an answer While I have no way to support it, I'd think it would be fine to use 100% Argon, but it wouldn't burn as hot, so if you are using a small mig it could be a factor on what you could weld.

Posted by: Series9 May 28 2005, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (trekkor @ May 28 2005, 06:55 PM)
I use straight CO2 with my MIG.
Lasts four times as long as bi-mix and costs half the price.

Straight Argon would be rather pricy, don't you think?

KT

I'm getting 150cf bottles filled for $42, so the cost of argon is not a big issue.

Buying another bottle for the MIG to hold premix would be around $200, so I'm just working on making a decision.

Posted by: xsboost90 May 28 2005, 08:20 PM

most will use 75%/ 25% argon with most metals. I believe 100% is usually used for aluminum or some other types of metals. If your welding anything on your car get the mix.

Posted by: Series9 May 28 2005, 08:20 PM

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ May 28 2005, 07:00 PM)
We've been using 84% Argon/ 16% CO2, so you are getting closer to an answer While I have no way to support it, I'd think it would be fine to use 100% Argon, but it wouldn't burn as hot, so if you are using a small mig it could be a factor on what you could weld.

Yes, if you're only using 16% CO2, I would think pure argon would be fine.

I got a Miller 175 220V, so I don't think power will be a problem.

Posted by: Joe Sharp May 28 2005, 08:43 PM

Joe: Listen to it spit, if it is working leave it alone. The zap on a wire feed gets you the penatration, er, ah, maybe I can't spell that on this board. See you in too weeks.
:PREMAGRIN: Joe

Posted by: LvSteveH May 28 2005, 08:56 PM

Drum Roll Please...... it can be done, but arc stability and penetration will suffer. I'd test it and see if you like it. Looking at the quality of your work, I'd go with whatever gets you the results you'll be happier with in the long run.

Posted by: Series9 May 28 2005, 08:58 PM

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ May 28 2005, 07:56 PM)
Drum Roll Please...... it can be done, but arc stability and penetration will suffer. I'd test it and see if you like it. Looking at the quality of your work, I'd go with whatever gets you the results you'll be happier with in the long run.

If that's the case, I'll be getting another bottle.

Posted by: David_S May 28 2005, 09:58 PM

When I got my MIG, the welding shop told me that Argon will work, but the CO2 mix will not spatter as bad, will not warp the metal as bad, and the penetration will be better than with Argon when welding steel. I have never tried MIG with Argon, but I did find out several years ago that you can't TIG with CO2 mix !!!

Posted by: rick 918-S May 28 2005, 10:00 PM

The fuction of the gas is a sheild. The more expensive Argon provides a "purer" (is that a word? ) environment for the molten metal. Because the gas is heavier that the Oxygen it is displacing, the weld is allowed to flow and reach max purity as it cools. Mild steel is alot less fussy about what is used as a sheild than say Aluminum. Hence the use of less expensive mixtures of sheilding gas. The added Argon is done to enhance purity. It's only needed in small doses because like I said, Mild steel is less fussy about it's conditions. (water, rust, oil, etc.) Try adding any impurities to Aluminum while your welding and you'll see what I mean.

The short answer IMHO Argon will work just fine.

Although the Co2 may lay over the weld longer the straight Argon, This will permote a cooler weld.

BTW: I checked the bottom of the box tonight. It's better but still damp. We haven't had more than 3 hours of sun here per day for 3 weeks. Tell Liz to hang on, I haven't forgotten her.

Posted by: bondo May 29 2005, 10:09 AM

QUOTE (LvSteveH @ May 28 2005, 07:56 PM)
Drum Roll Please...... it can be done, but arc stability and penetration will suffer. I'd test it and see if you like it. Looking at the quality of your work, I'd go with whatever gets you the results you'll be happier with in the long run.

This is what I've heard, never tried it though. I do know that you need 100% argon for mig welding aluminum, and a spool gun is HIGHLY recommended. (for aluminum)

Posted by: Travis Neff May 30 2005, 06:03 PM

100% argon for alu and SS. I think that the uses are for mix are for keeping the weld clean as well as penetration help. I would give it a try and see how it does, can't hurt right?.

Posted by: Lawrence May 30 2005, 06:10 PM

I really like Stargon... it's a blend of Argon, CO2 and Nitrogen. I used several bottles in Des Moines and it really cut down on spatter, etc. I haven't been able to find it here in Kansas.

-Rusty

Posted by: cha914 May 30 2005, 08:04 PM

I have your same welder and run straight argon all the time...welds just fine...I have a TIG also, and it was easier to get the straight gas, plus straight argon is actually cheaper than the mix (at least where I shop), and not that much more than the co2. I havn't been able to notice a difference in the different gasses with a mig, but I also don't weld for a living...

Tony

Posted by: Racer Chris May 30 2005, 08:40 PM

QUOTE (rick 918-S @ May 29 2005, 12:00 AM)
The fuction of the gas is a sheild.

That's only one function of the gas.
The gas also carries the arc so the choice of gas influences how much energy is transferred from the gun to the work surface and affects the arc stability.
QUOTE
I really like Stargon... it's a blend of Argon, CO2 and Nitrogen

Actually I think you will find that all MIg tri-mixes are a blend of Argon/CO2/ Oxygen. The trace of oxygen helps with cleaning, since it oxidizes certain impurities.

BTW, the choice of wire also has a big effect on certain weld properties such as fluidity, and how much rust and other impurities can be tolerated without getting porosity.