Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: hockeymutt Dec 31 2017, 11:19 AM

Hey everyone starting to get the pieces for my swap, currently have a WRX engine with complete harness. Picked it up for 1k complete with engine harness and body harness 80k on the motor. here are my questions:

Cooling:
MR2 radiator with dual fans in the front?
VW reservoir for self bleeding

SIDE NOTE: I've been really interested in maybe doing something under the front bumper looks like porsche made a Mid mount radiator but my concern is its way to small



the other option is doing a deck lid mounted set up with 2 porsche mid mount radiators and using push pull flow fans, but can't find anyone that has succeeded with it?

Cradle have a few options but leads me to my next question:

TRANS: do i keep the stock and use the kenny adapters? about $800-900
or can pick up a forester trans with 160k for $175 plus axle splines, bell crank cables, shifter, pedal assembly with cylinders, 2wd conversion, GPS speedo, plus man hours i'll prob be close to $1500 to convert.

my concerns with the subie trans are i would have to go to a floor mounted pedal set up and would have to figure out how to tie into the stock brake system. Think I've figured it out but seems like a lot of work and tweaking to get the bias correct. Resplined axles from dutchman should be easy, Cable bell crank is available online, 2wd is easy to get.


thanks for all the help, this will be a long journey but will be worth it.

Posted by: mepstein Dec 31 2017, 11:40 AM

I think you will be happier going all suby. Now that there are a couple cable shifters being made for the factory five 818, the shift linkage is done. The trans bolts on without adaptors and takes a stock clutch. The drivetrain is better suited for the hp. All the other parallels and clutch linkage has been done and documented on this site.
Also, if you need a replacement trans, a stock suby is so much less.

Posted by: flmont Dec 31 2017, 12:08 PM

Is there a subie tranns thats all cable actuated,..(future reference)..for a 3.3 ??

Posted by: hockeymutt Dec 31 2017, 12:31 PM

Don't think so, think they all have to converted

Posted by: Mike Bellis Dec 31 2017, 01:02 PM

All of it is doable if you have skills. Forget the mid mounted radiator idea. It has been tried but none have had much success.

Many of us are running the Celica GTS rad. It is a great size and works well. I would consider Boxster radiators for my next build.

Posted by: hockeymutt Dec 31 2017, 01:30 PM

I'm an aircraft mechanic so this shouldn't be hard in terms of skills. Just a matter of time and funds

I'll look in the celica radiator thanks for the heads up!

Posted by: mepstein Dec 31 2017, 01:31 PM

I don't think you can go light on cooling with a WRX engine. Look through the Suby build threads. There are some very clean front radiator installs that still leave room in the front trunk.

Posted by: mepstein Dec 31 2017, 01:47 PM

http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/80851-aluminum-shifter-assembly/

http://verycoolparts.com/shifter.htm

http://zerodecibelmotorsports.com/products/bell-crank-mechanism-5spd/

https://imgur.com/a/YpnTk

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=221682&st=0&p=1968388&#entry1968388

http://cableshift.com/Subaru/subaru%20page.html

Posted by: 914forme Dec 31 2017, 06:00 PM

I will highly recommend Zero Decibels linkage, it is a thing of beauty and built extremely well. I love mine

And Craig was a top notch guy to work with. Big plus in my book.

Posted by: 76-914 Dec 31 2017, 06:25 PM

You don’t need a custom 3 pedal set. The stock one can be used with an adp Plate. Look at my build thread or you can buy one from Ross Mellums. It ain’t nothing but a 1/4” or 3/16” piece of plate steel with a few holes drilled in it. The one I’m running is 1/4”, the ones I sold were 3/16. An MR2 shifter will work for your shifter. Do not run the 901 unless your a Masochist. Too weak, harder to install and a PITA to maintain.

Posted by: thelogo Dec 31 2017, 06:29 PM

Sorry but if you are a aircraft mechanic

Then you know a big radiator in the front of a 914
Is kinda dumb idea


Porsche , ferrari , lambo,

All do the angled corner split rads


So something along that line


But if your gonna pump water you should have done a s2000
Imho


Attached image(s)

Posted by: hockeymutt Dec 31 2017, 07:07 PM

Yea as an aircraft mechanic we don't need to worry about radiators just forced air hence why I'm asking here. The only things that need radiators are gearbox oil coolers but on the engine we use fuel to cool the oil and the efficiency goes up once you use a fuel oil exchange. The fuel cools the oil. This is all completed at the engine.

Posted by: hockeymutt Dec 31 2017, 07:17 PM

Yea I found this set up a few weeks ago and looks really solid, also have a Pontiac fiero at the junk yard by me might give that a second look

Posted by: Front yard mechanic Dec 31 2017, 07:18 PM

Who would want a crappy Honda motor might as well just drive a civic

Posted by: thelogo Dec 31 2017, 07:46 PM

[/quote]
Who would want a crappy Honda motor might as well just drive a civic
[/quote]




100 horsepower per liter

Is what caught my attention


To be honest ive never owned or even driven any honda

So ill take your word for it

Posted by: Sleepin Dec 31 2017, 09:01 PM

As a Subie guy, I would also recommend a Killer B oil pickup and (not so important with the EJ20 as the EJ25) ARP head studs. Simple preventative parts to increase longevity of your engine.

Posted by: Andyrew Jan 1 2018, 01:26 AM

Everything Mike Bellis has said. Read his thread, my thread, Jrust's, thread, 76-914 just redid his cooling system and has a nice writeup on ducting, brittian smith did a comprehensive conversion guide linked below whih is a couple years old now.

http://914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=110990&hl=

Good luck. Keep your build and questions in one thread. Its much easier to follow and trace back what you did 5 years down the road.

Oh ya and jimkelly has a long signature full of usefull links and has a list on this post which is nice.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=110990&view=findpost&p=1898965

Posted by: A&P Mech Jan 1 2018, 11:08 AM

Hockeymutt, welcome to the madness that is Subaru powered 914s! It is nice to see another A&P on the world!

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 1 2018, 11:18 AM

I disagree. First, you can not use a large radiator because of existing area limitations. Two, you can't have too much cooling available. You might add A/C (I did) or you might end up in some high temp area stuck in traffic. Plus, turbo'd engines put out a bit more heat. Not sure how much of that is handled by an intercooler? If you want to do the angled radiator thing you'll need to flare your fender wells $$$, do quit a bit of fab work, probably encounter some burping issues and generally complicate the Hell out of an otherwise proven radiator set up. Why would you want two radiators? That's like having two wive's! That Celica setup that Mike Bellis recommended is kick ass and <$200 with fans on eBay. PS, keep your exhaust area 40% larger than your intake area. If the intake area increases percentage wise over the 1:1.4 ratio you start to push hot air into the cabin and end up needing to duct the hot air exhaust. Ask me how I know.

Posted by: Mr. M Jan 1 2018, 11:38 AM

What year of Celica are you using for the radiator?

Posted by: thelogo Jan 1 2018, 02:03 PM

I would not want to flare the car only to accommodate
Twin rads

So would the gt oil cooler setup with a radiator in it instead of a oil cooler , do the job .

Its about a 3rd the size of renegade radiator but

That celica rad is not that big

Posted by: rnellums Jan 1 2018, 02:32 PM

Mid 90s Jeep Cherokee radiator is the perfect size to fit under the decklid, but I've only seen pictures of one car that has done it successfully, and not many (so I'm not sure it really gets that much action).

My heart still says that a well engineered cooling system in the engine bay should work, but it has to be entirely fan cooled since there aren't any good high pressure zones around the engine bay.

At 80 mph, even a small radiator gets close to 10,000 cfm of air flow, which is hard to match, even with high performance electric fans.

Posted by: A&P Mech Jan 1 2018, 02:58 PM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ROW-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-2X-12-FAN-BLACK-FOR-00-05-CELICA-GT-GTS-1ZZ-FE-2ZZ-GE/201909815970?hash=item2f02c34aa2:g:ZtgAAOSwWLBaPc6P&vxp=mtr

Posted by: mepstein Jan 1 2018, 03:12 PM

If it’s a street car, it’s the 95 degree day in stop and go traffic that would be my concern.

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 1 2018, 06:27 PM

Have any picture?

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jan 1 2018, 06:36 PM

I also picked up a factory dual fan and shroud setup. Works fabulous.

Posted by: thelogo Jan 1 2018, 07:11 PM

This is cool
Radiator is totally packaged
And frontal aspect is more minimized then
A rad that just stands up and out front




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: A&P Mech Jan 1 2018, 08:13 PM

Hockeymutt this is a very good build thread that covers what you are working towards.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=58431&hl=Porsti

Posted by: rnellums Jan 2 2018, 04:45 AM

Low speed/low load shouldn't be taxing on just about any cooling system provided it's properly bled. High load is where you get into trouble.


I'm not sure that this is the Cherokee radiator (I think the cherokee is a bit wider), but you get the idea. Not great for engine access though...

Posted by: 914forme Jan 2 2018, 12:08 PM

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MUCYSRR/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1F86TF7G43XA2

Overall Size: 35" x 11.50" x 6" / Core Size: 31.00" x 11.25" x 2.00"
Inlet: 1.25" / Outlet: 1.50"

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 2 2018, 06:48 PM

finally was able to complete the wrx engine and harness removal from the donor car. sitting on the cherry picker in my garage. Now time to fix some floor boards. Also have been cut off for this month spending wise, more progress to come. I'll post some pictures.

Also I'll never pull another harness from a suabru in 20 degree weather or at at all. No clue why you would route a harness behind a heater core for 6 inches. Was able to pull the whole thing 98% intact minus airbag wires. Kept the engine relay fuse panel and only cut one connector( think it was a fan relay) .

Lessons learned:
Bring bolt cutters to cut the harness that goes to the rear.
Don't forget the bolt that goes from the support bar to the firewall ( battled the bar for 30 mins before I realized it had to come out)
Air bag control box needs to come out
Cut connectors to non essential items early (I.e horn wiper motor headlights) the got in the way when routing back into the cabin

Posted by: Sleepin Jan 2 2018, 07:31 PM

A V mount radiator and intercooler would be awesome in a 914.

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 10 2018, 04:02 PM

Trying to figure out the subaru trans right now. Have the wrx flywheel pressure and clutch combo installed ( pull type). I would have liked to have sourced the wrx trans but cannot find an affordable one at the moment up wards of 1k near me.

But i have found a ton of 2.5 impreza/forester trans for under $200 which use a push type and the slave cylinder is mounted on the side which I've read is better for clearance.

So to use the 2.5 trans would all i would need to use a 2.5 flywheel/pressure plate and clutch?

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 10 2018, 11:54 PM

The idea of the radiator on the engine lid is interesting to say the least. There's the low pressure area right behind the rear window that will fill with air from underneath the car naturally and more so when the fans are on. And when you raise the radiator on the hinges, it should make it a snap to bleed the cooling system. The weight of the rad is up high which isn't the best but it's centrally located so it still helps the polar moment of inertia - not a bad thing at all. If you can move it up far enough you can still work on the engine but being a Subaru, you really won't have to work on it much at all.
I think I'm going to research this option a bit more....

Posted by: 914forme Jan 11 2018, 08:26 AM

Add rubber skirting, a M1A1 Tank fan, and a snow mobile engine you will gain three things.

Power to draw the air through your mid engine radiator.

Power to create a sucker car, best handling 914 ever

And you now have a fun side business as a street sweeper.



All of this can happen just until some piece of derby gets pulled from the road surface and sucked through your radiator.

Great local effort to build this car for $2700 bucks, driven by Danny Popp in this picture, set top time of the day several times. But Danny does that with out the sucker car.

As far as your trans question.

Subaru parts are like legos they all go togther with various degrees of success. Get in the mid 2000s on transmission and you will be good. Look for one with a 3.9 or higher ring and pinion your even better. All Subaru Trannys have a number on the bellhouseing that tells you what you got. The decoder ring can be found http://www.gearhack.com/myink/ViewPage.php?file=docs/Subaru%20Transmission%20Chart

The MT5 cases changed some say the latter ones are stronger than the earlier ones. My feeling is they are cheaper than a 901, and stronger. Your making them 2 wheel drive, so less stress on the trans. And the weaker link in the puzzle if using a 914 CV will be the 914 CV. Think of it as a fuse. Or you can run skinny tires, which is also like a fuse.

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 11 2018, 08:28 AM

I wouldn't put the radiator back there even if someone had a proven working design. It just throws another level of complication in the mix. Not to mention the need to work around that set up when trying to access the engine compartment. KISS.

Posted by: zipedadoo Jan 11 2018, 08:53 AM

Bobcat skid steer loaders use a similar radiator set up. Granted it's not the same application but might give some ideas.

https://s.hswstatic.com/gif/skid-steer-service.jpg

Posted by: 914GT Jan 11 2018, 06:25 PM

I mounted a pair of small fans under my engine lid on my V8 conversion to get more airflow around the engine and carb. Initially I had these exhausting the hot air up and out through the lid, which seemed best since hot air rises. With this arrangement I soon had a very dirty and dusty engine and engine compartment. Dirt and debris off the road gets sucked up and covers everything. So I flipped the fans around so they blow down. Something else to consider with a radiator in the back and if you’re pulling air up from the bottom of the car.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jan 11 2018, 11:51 PM

It'd free up yer trunks and eliminate running coolant lines.... It's only a thought - I've already built a tunnel down the center for the coolant lines. I could use it for brake lines, a/c lines, and fuel lines though!

Posted by: Rotary'14 Jan 12 2018, 07:30 AM

Actually that's a VW VR6 corrado? radiator. It also does great in stop and go for a rotary which runs hotter than normal piston motors (I bet it can handle a non turbo subie 4 cylinder). The car does run a bit hot on hot days,, but I think this can be resolved with better ducting from underneath as there is none right now. As far as engine access,, I have no problems changing my spark plugs,, and changing belts is still easier than on a type IV.
-Robert

Posted by: rnellums Jan 12 2018, 10:19 PM

I had that thought too, but then I realized that on a stock 2.5 NA (say 160 HP) the center diff sends 55% of power to the rear wheels and 45% to the fronts, so ~ 75 hp to the front diff.

When we lock the tranny into FWD we are sending 100% of power to the front diff, so in my case (EZ30), close to triple the power the transmission was designed for. That said, no problems so far (10k miles + of fairly abusive driving)... so it can't be that bad!



How hot is a bit hot? I still hit ~210 in my EZ30 with a front mount rad on 95deg + days here in Denver. I too am sorely tempted by an engine-bay mounted radiator. Less/no cutting, much shorter coolant lines, no ground clearance issues, less weight (less coolant to fill the lines). There is a lot to like if it works!

How many miles have you put on it?

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 12 2018, 11:15 PM

Picked up a 5mt. found a very knowledge fabricator and is going to help make cradles using my car as a mock up. Ill keep everyone posted. Looks like it will be a coldwater/ renegade style front and were going to figure out something for the trans. We're also looking into a cable shift step up. Hopefully will have something done in the next few weeks.

Posted by: rnellums Jan 13 2018, 09:02 AM

This is exciting news!

In my opinion, A well designed cradle would re-use the soft rubber mounts that the Subaru uses for the engine and transmission, and then would hard-mount to the pickups on the body.

In the current coldwater setup, he engine soft-mounts to the cradle, but the transmission mounts hard-mount to the cradle, which im sure sets up some bad vibration/fatigue issues.

Also, using an engine mount that only picks up at the front stock mount points will have a hug cantilevered mass which will be a lot of stress on those forward mounts. I'm almost certain that the engine mount needs to to support the entire engine/transmission assembly as a single unit.

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 13 2018, 05:36 PM

anyone have any experience with these classic bucket replicas?

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 13 2018, 05:57 PM

thats what i was thinking. Going to see about getting him to do something similar to DBcoppers set up, using the subaru stock trans brace. the only issue i can see for my situation is using subaru rubber on the frame is space. Im running a wrx motor and with the stock down pipe its tight.

Posted by: rnellums Jan 13 2018, 09:58 PM

See, thats your first mistake... everyone knows the EZ H-6's are the only way to go

Posted by: hockeymutt Jan 13 2018, 10:10 PM

Hahah once you have a turbo car you never want to go back! Twin turbos 6's have been my favorite so far.

Posted by: rnellums Jan 13 2018, 10:20 PM

I don't know... I have a 2.0 WRX and definitely still prefer the EZ 914. I need to find someone with a turbocharged conversion so I can directly compare the two!

Posted by: JRust Jan 14 2018, 03:21 PM

I should have mine ready for Route 66 this year. Although that is coming quick. LOL! I need to get off my ass

Posted by: rnellums Jan 14 2018, 06:07 PM

Perfect! (provided I can make it) pretty busy summer coming up! Worst case RRC?

Posted by: hockeymutt Feb 17 2018, 11:16 PM

So starting to get back into this as its been warming up by me and starting to get all the pieces together.

think I've found 930 axles stubs for <$100? heres what I've found

http://www.racereadyproducts.com/transmission-drive-flanges/empi-conversion-transmission-flanges/

https://www.kustom1warehouse.net/Irs_cv_joint_transmission_drive_flanges_p/driveflanges.htm

https://www.appletreeauto.com/TYPE-1-TO-930-DRIVE-FLANGES-AC525105/

https://vwparts.aircooled.net/CV-Joint-Conversion-Flanges-Type-2-CV-Joint-on-T1-p/16-2299-0.htm

also found these guys that will make any flange

http://www.driveshaftsuperstore.com/Drive_shaft_custom_flanges.htm

I'm still looking at dutchman, but trying to figure something that can be pulled off the shelf if need be.

shifter: mr2 with zero decibel.