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Posted by: BravoHotel Jul 8 2003, 08:26 PM

I finally figured out a place to mount my oil cooler. The car didn't have any of the airbox stuff when i bought it (mainly track and nice day car). I think it will work pretty sweet. If I am still not getting enough cooling, I have a Spal puller fan that I can install. The lines will go thru the pass. side long. where the hot air used to go. (2) AN-12 hoses fit just perfectly...

Anyway, to the question:

Anyone plumbed anything w/ AN fittings? Do I have to use teflon tape for all the threads or just leave bare?

Thanks
BH


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Posted by: Qarl Jul 8 2003, 08:39 PM

The only problem I see is that there is no where for the hot air to exit other than your trunk. There is no vent to the "outside" world.

Eventually you will get a really hot trunk and you will get warm air leaking into the passenger compartment.

The cowl inlet does not have the highest inlet pressure flow in since the inlet is parallel with the airflow over the trunk.

Plus... air has to flow through . You will not get very much flow through unless you have a fan sucking air through, and then it still needs to vent out .

Do this experiment...

Blow air into a cardboard tube from about 6" away... you get decent airflow on the other end of the tube.

Now blow into a tall empty drinking glass from about 6" away. Since the glass is already "full" of air, it comes right back at your face. Your front trunk will act like an empty glass and not much air will flow in, if it has nowhere to escape.

Great idea.. great location... but it needs some more engineering.

Posted by: drew365 Jul 8 2003, 08:41 PM

No teflon tape on any of the AN fittings. I just finished my car this weekend and have no leaks. I would suggest buying the vise adapter to make the fittings and have the right size open end wrenches, no adjustables.

Posted by: Qarl Jul 8 2003, 08:43 PM

Looking at your picture again... here is an idea.

It looks like you're going to run a fuel cell.

Why not build a little box on the backside of the cooler with flexible ducting (similar to dryer vent tubing) that runs to the floorpan of the gas tank area and exits near the steering rack underneath the car?

You can also build a mini hood scoop to capture the airflow!

Posted by: BravoHotel Jul 8 2003, 08:51 PM

Karl,

I am running a fuel cell and there is a 4" dia hole to the right of the steering shaft that should evacuate the hot air...plus another misc 1" hole in the same area. Hopefully, the 4" hole has some neg pressure. I will keep you posted.


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Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 8 2003, 08:58 PM

one is the acces hole to the bottom of the fuel tank. the other is....

Posted by: john rogers Jul 8 2003, 09:03 PM

Personally I don't think there will be enough air flow for that setup. Additionally, I'm not sure if a tech inspector would pass that since if the oil cooler were to rupture you could very well end up with a lap full of very hot oil!!!??? I'd put it in behind the front bumper.

Posted by: BravoHotel Jul 8 2003, 09:14 PM

It is yet to be seen whether or not there will be enough air flow (it is definitely somewhat of an experiment)...if not, I have a piggyback puller fan to supplement. If the cooler were to rupture for some reason, there is really no way to end up w/ a lap full of oil...all major hole into the pass compartment have been capped/plugged/plated, etc.

The main reason I didn't mount it behind the bumper, is cause I didn't want to cut into the tub...the car is just too clean.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 8 2003, 09:32 PM

has anyone ever don a 911 fenderwell oil cooler install? put it up at the fron of the fenderwell?

Posted by: Qarl Jul 8 2003, 09:36 PM

The 1" misc hole is for the drain for the airbox that has been removed.

Karl

Posted by: BravoHotel Jul 8 2003, 09:39 PM

riiiiiiiight...that make sense. I have all of the airbox stuff...just was removed b4 I bought the car.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 8 2003, 10:38 PM

This area has a ton of FREE air flowing in. I had to block it off on my tube frame car because the air was hitting the FLOOR so hard it was blowing shit up into my helmet (the windshield cowl is one of two factory steel pieces on my race car) The "vents" basically exit onto my floor.

I wanted to know how much air it was moving.. so I was going down the back straight at Buttonwillow at 100+ and started moving my hand near the opening. It literally blew my hand away.

I'm not sure how well this spot will work... but I know of 3 other people trying it right now as we speak. I say capture the heat and use it for the interior of the car (when you need it)

B

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 8 2003, 11:08 PM

It definitely gets air...I have no blower box or ducting and the air entering the cowl grille just -blasts- out of the defrost vents. That's why I'm gonna duct it into a more useful/adjustable location shortly. Also with an inline blower fan for when the car isn't moving or needs defrost assistance (not likely, but hey).

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 8 2003, 11:12 PM

The 3 inch inline fans ROCK. This is what Winston Cup cars use for brake ducting and getting air to rear end coolers and oil coolers. The one car we sold had 6 blower fans just for the brakes (Road race car)


B

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jul 8 2003, 11:57 PM

i think Mountain914 is running the same setup. ask him if it works well.

Posted by: Qarl Jul 9 2003, 12:01 AM

Bravo:

Okay Dr. Evil!

Posted by: andys Jul 9 2003, 10:07 AM

Teflon tape on the threaded portion (and only on the threaed portion; keep it off of the flare) is particularly useful when frequent dis-assembly and assembly is the case. The anodize on the fittings will wear quickly leaving the thread interface bare alum to bare alum. It will gaull quickly. The teflon tape will help prevent this. FWIW

Andy

Posted by: Mountain914 Jul 9 2003, 10:17 AM

I think this is a great setup. I have a thermostat for the fan which kicks on at 180, and even in stop and go traffic, or a day racing, I haven't seen it get much over 180 ( I live in Colorado, so it's a dry heat ).
As long as you don't need wipers - I don't see anything wrong with it.

I can attest to the fact that it does NOT create warm air into the passenger compartment (though if I drove it in the winter, maybe I could hook something up to do that since I don't have heat exchangers... hmmmmm...) and it gets plenty of ventilation (no ram-air needed here).

As long as the fan works, I think it's an ideal solution.
ACK! It's raining! Oh Nooooo! What do I do???


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Posted by: J P Stein Jul 9 2003, 10:35 AM

My personal preference for oil coolers is to keep the cooler below the level of the oil tank.....it would be nice to keep it below the engine sump also, but that ain't happening.....this minimizes "drain back".
Good access to the cooler also allows filling the cooler and lines rather than waiting for the thermostat to open and "burp" the system.
The nose is good for both this and airflow....why reinvent the wheel?
I'll pass on the teflon tape, thanks. I've had no problems with
galling of fitting's theads.....the seal is not at the threads with AN fittings.

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 9 2003, 11:01 AM

Not trying to hijack the thread, but does anybody know why it isn't possible (or is it?) to make an adjustable oil t-stat? Most of them seem to be set for 180F but it is debatable whether that is a good operating temp for our cars. I usually hear 210-220 stated as a better target temp, i.e. warm enough to boil any water or by-products out of the oil.

Just wondering...

Posted by: maf914 Jul 9 2003, 11:05 AM

Cowl intakes are not new. Look at all the muscle cars that run reverse hood scoops, picking up air at the base of the windshield. As the air moves across the hood it hits the windshield and slows down at the base, forming a high pressure area. Air flows from high to low pressure areas. The trick will be to make sure there is adequate exhaust from the trunk into a low pressure area under the car.

What we need are pressure measurements from the front bumper and the cowl area for comparison. But, who's got the equipment for that?

Mike

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 9 2003, 11:07 AM

All Winston Cup cars pick up air for the engine from the base of the windshield in this same fashion.

B

Posted by: J P Stein Jul 9 2003, 11:33 AM

........and where do they put their oil coolers?

Posted by: BravoHotel Jul 9 2003, 11:50 AM

JP,

I'm not trying to justify in the slightest that the cowl installation is the ideal location for the oil cooler. It just made sense for me in my particular installation/case. I did not want to cut into the front trunk, I do not intend to ever reinstall the airbox etc., and there is room for the hot air to escape since the stock fuel tank has been replaced by a fuel cell. Just my opinion, but I think its pretty slick.

BH

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 9 2003, 11:56 AM

Above the rear end housing. They use NACA ducts in the rear windows and funnel air to coolers mounted just in front of the rear end on the body sheet metal.

I have pics somewhere.


B

Posted by: Mountain914 Jul 9 2003, 04:05 PM

Would you say that with a 3.0L (sump system)?
I have a factory /6 cooler, too, by the way.
I'm not being argumentitive, but I have toyed with the idea of moving the cooler to the front (in search of windshield wipers for legal reasons) and always want to know how to do things better.

Posted by: makinson1 Aug 28 2003, 11:53 AM

So putting the cooler in the plenum area in front of the windshield is good, but we don't have an elegant wat to vent the hot air out of this area into a low pressure zone. Now there are a bunch of big rubber grommets behind the front bumper, and a slot open area between the bumper and the air dam. And there is a low pressure area behinf the lower air dam. Couldn't we just mount the cooler behind there, and cut an opening in the bottom of the front trunk area to vent down into the low pressure zone?
BTW, both Russell and Aeroquip advise against using teflon tape on AN fittings.
BTW2, what is the blue hose being used instread of the SS hose?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Aug 28 2003, 11:59 AM

yes - everybody advises against using Teflon tape on AN fittings - Earl's too. Tape is just for NPT fittings.

the blue hose is typically high-pressure hydraulic hose. hydraulic implement dealers (backhoe, front loaders - like that ...) can usually fabricate whatever you need. donno if they'll have the 37-deg AN hose ends or not.

Posted by: Mountain914 Feb 27 2004, 05:52 PM

So BH - what did you end up with ?

Posted by: brant Feb 27 2004, 10:46 PM

brad,

can you give me any details about how you blocked this area off in the tube car?

I think I want to block mine off, but can figure a way to do it that will look decent.

brant