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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ OT: where to buy American made tools
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 5 2018, 08:20 PM
So where are people buying American made tools now that Sears is going out of business? I realize they haven't made them in America for a few years, but they did. Most of my Craftsman tools are made in the US. If I ever have any warranty returns, I'm going to likely get made in China stuff.
Home Depot, harbor freight and Lowe's get most of their stuff from China.
I suppose I could go to a swap meet, but those tools are pretty beat up.
SK makes good stuff but it's expensive.
I've bought a few Proto tools and they seem good.
What does everyone else plan to do?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 5 2018, 08:29 PM
http://bfy.tw/FtvO
Posted by: sithot Jan 5 2018, 08:37 PM
So where are people buying American made tools now that Sears is going out of business? I realize they haven't made them in America for a few years, but they did. Most of my Craftsman tools are made in the US. If I ever have any warranty returns, I'm going to likely get made in China stuff.
Home Depot, harbor freight and Lowe's get most of their stuff from China.
I suppose I could go to a swap meet, but those tools are pretty beat up.
SK makes good stuff but it's expensive.
I've bought a few Proto tools and they seem good.
What does everyone else plan to do?
This company makes a nice kit I picked up recently.
https://chapmanmfg.com
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 5 2018, 08:56 PM
Craftsman was bought by Stanley or someone in the same industry. If the tools stay as good who knows.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 5 2018, 09:19 PM
I dont think craftsman has been concidered a quality tool for quite some time.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 5 2018, 09:52 PM
Craftsman was bought by Black and Decker, whose DeWalt brand is ok. But Craftsman has been on the decline for some time, trading on the name. We mostly use Craftsman and the older stuff far outperforms the newer stuff. And by newer stuff I mean 5-10 years old. I have no idea what crap they are selling now.
Posted by: somd914 Jan 5 2018, 10:14 PM
I've been through several of my newer ratchets, but yet mine from 30+ years ago are hanging on. Overall for the money and the warranty, I still feel they have been a good deal, even recently.
One item I heard with the buy out is that B&D/Stanley would increase the number of Craftsman retailers, but warranty replacements would be up the retailer, thus some might offer life-time warranty for hand tools, and others might not. Seems odd if they really implement that scheme.
As for being made in China, keep in mind that the Chinese are capable of building high quality goods, and they are capable of making junk - just like the US.
Posted by: Mueller Jan 6 2018, 12:14 AM
Craftsman tools to be sold at Lowes sometime this year. Hope the quality is good.
Posted by: Aidan Jan 6 2018, 02:50 AM
Working in the trades, I always liked Craftsman because there is a Sears in every town when you travel installing production equipment like I do, this is changing with Sears financial problems (this topic pisses me off because I dont want to see Sears go away, Im an engineer and have limited business experience, but I could bring this company back to profitability its simple" All of the above said I will simply say what my father told me growing up " Buy the best and you will never be dis satisfied" For me that is Snap-on, but all the professional tool brands are good, SK, Proto, Matco, Mac...........I also really like Cornwell, but finding a distributor can be tough.
Posted by: somd914 Jan 6 2018, 06:40 AM
Craftsman tools to be sold at Lowes sometime this year. Hope the quality is good.
Interesting the Lowe's would sell Craftsman as they are presently direct competition for Lowes' house brand Kobalt tools, some of which I have found to be decent.
Posted by: flyer86d Jan 6 2018, 07:07 AM
Before I opened my shop, Craftsman tools were fine. When I went into the business, there wasn’t a sears store within 50 miles so I ended up with Snap On. The dealer stopped by every week. If I absolutely needed a tool or needed one replaced in an emergency he would meet me. Also, Snap On tools are pretty hard to break. Yes they would but I trusted them more than others.
Charlie
Posted by: sithot Jan 6 2018, 07:17 AM
Craftsman tools to be sold at Lowes sometime this year. Hope the quality is good.
Interesting the Lowe's would sell Craftsman as they are presently direct competition for Lowes' house brand Kobalt tools, some of which I have found to be decent.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/24/news/companies/craftsman-lowes-sears/index.html
"Part of the delay in getting Craftsman tools into Lowe's is the fact that Stanley Black & Decker is shifting Craftsman production back from overseas plants to U.S. facilities. It has announced plans for a new U.S. factory to build Craftsman products at a location yet to be announced."
My guess is "assembled in the USA" vs. "Made in the USA".
Posted by: somd914 Jan 6 2018, 07:22 AM
Craftsman tools to be sold at Lowes sometime this year. Hope the quality is good.
Interesting the Lowe's would sell Craftsman as they are presently direct competition for Lowes' house brand Kobalt tools, some of which I have found to be decent.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/24/news/companies/craftsman-lowes-sears/index.html
"Part of the delay in getting Craftsman tools into Lowe's is the fact that Stanley Black & Decker is shifting Craftsman production back from overseas plants to U.S. facilities. It has announced plans for a new U.S. factory to build Craftsman products at a location yet to be announced."
My guess is "assembled in the USA" vs. "Made in the USA".
Very interesting, thanks for sharing the link.
Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 6 2018, 07:46 AM
Before I opened my shop, Craftsman tools were fine. When I went into the business, there wasn’t a sears store within 50 miles so I ended up with Snap On. The dealer stopped by every week. If I absolutely needed a tool or needed one replaced in an emergency he would meet me. Also, Snap On tools are pretty hard to break. Yes they would but I trusted them more than others.
Charlie
Let me follow up on what Charlie said.
While I was in business Snap On were readily available and high quality. And expensive.
Now I have to hunt down a local dealer on his route and persuade him to honor the lifetime warranty. Not so good.
What I've found is that if you buy some tools from the them they're easier to deal with
on warranty tools.
Posted by: bdstone914 Jan 6 2018, 08:03 AM
I was told that Kobalt tools sold by Lowes are made by Snap-on. Not sure if the are U.S. made but I like them.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 6 2018, 08:06 AM
Before I opened my shop, Craftsman tools were fine. When I went into the business, there wasn’t a sears store within 50 miles so I ended up with Snap On. The dealer stopped by every week. If I absolutely needed a tool or needed one replaced in an emergency he would meet me. Also, Snap On tools are pretty hard to break. Yes they would but I trusted them more than others.
Charlie
Let me follow up on what Charlie said.
While I was in business Snap On were readily available and high quality. And expensive.
Now I have to hunt down a local dealer on his route and persuade him to honor the lifetime warranty. Not so good.
What I've found is that if you buy some tools from the them they're easier to deal with
on warranty tools.
Yes. The guys at our shop buy a lot of snap on tools. The rep is very accommodating. When our snap on compressor broke and their warranty division gave me a hard time, I called the rep and he had a new pump overnighted for no charge. He sure didn't want the account to go away.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 6 2018, 08:16 AM
Snap-on, Mac, and the other higher end tools are of course quality, but for the average guy to spend thousands on tools is not ideal. That's why Craftsman always sold well, it was a quality tool at a decent price. Sad to see that go away.
Now if I was a professional mechanic who made his money by beating the clock, having the very best tools makes sense, money wise.
Posted by: saigon71 Jan 6 2018, 08:20 AM
I agree with the decline in quality of Craftsman tools over the years. My original ratchet set was my Grandfathers made by Craftsman in the 40's or 50's. When the 1/2" drive ratchet wouldn't "ratchet" anymore, I took it back for a new one. The difference in quality was evident.
That being said, 95% of my hand tools are Craftsman and have served me well, so I'm sticking with the brand, provided the lifetime warranty still exists.
My local Ace hardware carries Craftsman tools now. I'll ask them next time I'm in if they honor the warranty.
Posted by: sithot Jan 6 2018, 08:37 AM
Snap-on, Mac, and the other higher end tools are of course quality, but for the average guy to spend thousands on tools is not ideal. That's why Craftsman always sold well, it was a quality tool at a decent price. Sad to see that go away.
Now if I was a professional mechanic who made his money by beating the clock, having the very best tools makes sense, money wise.
Posted by: maf914 Jan 6 2018, 08:49 AM
I was told that Kobalt tools sold by Lowes are made by Snap-on. Not sure if the are U.S. made but I like them.
I have also bought some Kobalt tools, which I like. I was recently looking at some of the Kobalt pliers I have: Made in China. Lowe's offers a lifetime warranty, which I haven't used, so can't comment on how they honor it. Lowe's does have some good sales on tools if you check periodically.
Posted by: JOEPROPER Jan 6 2018, 09:20 AM
As far as hand tools... Snap-On is the best. Yes, they're expensive, but how much do you value you're knuckles? I think Snap-On is a great investment. They don't go bad, are always under warranty and the company is very strong, not going anywhere. Specialty tools and such are a different story and should be purchased carefully, but like I said Snap-On hand tools are the way to go.
Posted by: Jett Jan 6 2018, 09:46 AM
+1 snap-on is our choice. We were lucky to get a discount from the local vocational school my wife attends to enhance her welding skills. For a $1900.00 course we received $50% off of Snap-on tools up to $12K.
My brother also runs a large mechanics shop and has always used either Snap-on or Ingersoll Rand (air tools).
Posted by: sithot Jan 6 2018, 10:03 AM
+1 snap-on is our choice. We were lucky to get a discount from the local vocational school my wife attends to enhance her welding skills. For a $1900.00 course we received $50% off of Snap-on tools up to $12K.
My brother also runs a large mechanics shop and has always used either Snap-on or Ingersoll Rand (air tools).
If you find the right Snap On dealer they will "play ball", especially if they're not having to "carry you" on the books. The dealer I used is a fine person and a good businessman when it comes to selling. He's not in love with inventory.
Posted by: The Cabinetmaker Jan 6 2018, 10:50 AM
I have used thorsen tools for years. Best end wrenches I've ever used.
Posted by: flyer86d Jan 6 2018, 11:38 AM
I totally agree with JoeProper. I had more faith in my Snap On tools not breaking and injuring myself. My next door neighbor (to the shop) had a 1 ton Dodge rack body 4x4 that needed front pads, rotors and front axle u joints. My big impact would not remove the front axle nut so we put my 3 foot 1/2” Drive Snap On breaker bar on the socket and added a six foot pipe to that. My next door neighbor, who is not a pound under 300 lbs, was hanging on the end of the pipe with his feet off the ground with the truck in the air on the lift. That broke the nut loose. The breaker bar and socket were undamaged. Vermont rust is better than Locktite!
Charlie
Posted by: sithot Jan 6 2018, 11:57 AM
I totally agree with JoeProper. I had more faith in my Snap On tools not breaking and injuring myself. My next door neighbor (to the shop) had a 1 ton Dodge rack body 4x4 that needed front pads, rotors and front axle u joints. My big impact would not remove the front axle nut so we put my 3 foot 1/2” Drive Snap On breaker bar on the socket and added a six foot pipe to that. My next door neighbor, who is not a pound under 300 lbs, was hanging on the end of the pipe with his feet off the ground with the truck in the air on the lift. That broke the nut loose. The breaker bar and socket were undamaged. Vermont rust is better than Locktite!
Charlie
LOL!
Posted by: NoEcm Jan 6 2018, 12:34 PM
All USA made Craftsman Tools at least 25 years old. See if you can figure out what's wrong with them before scrolling down for the answer(s).
1. 1/2" drive, 15mm, 36 point socket (this was supposed to be a 12 point socket but got forged 3 times)
2. Round drive, 5/8, 12 point socket (this one missed getting forged on the 1/2" drive end)
3. Can you guess what this is? It came in a package with other 1/2" drive sockets
4. 3/8" drive, 3/8", 12 point socket (the 3/8" drive end and the socket end are reversed and the drive end walls are now very thin)
5. 3/8" Drive, 7/16", 12 point socket (this one got forged as a 6pt socket twice)
6. Round drive, 14mm, 6 point socket (this one missed getting forged on the 3/8" drive end)
7. 9/32" drive extension (circa 1935) This one fits nothing that I own. A 1/4" drive socket won't fit on the male end and on the female end it just falls off a 1/4" ratchet. To learn more: http://alloy-artifacts.org/craftsman-early-tools-p3.html
8. #1 Phillips screwdriver. Too bad the phillips blade end got inserted into the handle.
9. 3/8" drive, raw socket. This one did not get embossed with the size or forged on the socket end.
10. 3/8" drive, 3/8", 6 point socket (on the drive end it got forged twice so instead to being square it has 8 points)
11. Open end wrench where the size marking got reversed
12. 3/8" drive, 3/8", round socket (they forgot to forge the socket end on this one)
13. Round drive, 6mm, 6pt socket (The drive end got missed in the forge)
14. Forging flaw that made it all the way through the chroming process (no, this is not a tube wrench)
15. The 5/16 box end of the wrench missed getting forged. Great for turning round nuts
16. This is what happens when you use an 8' pipe as a cheater bar
Posted by: burton73 Jan 6 2018, 12:49 PM
I've been through several of my newer ratchets, but yet mine from 30+ years ago are hanging on. Overall for the money and the warranty, I still feel they have been a good deal, even recently.
One item I heard with the buy out is that B&D/Stanley would increase the number of Craftsman retailers, but warranty replacements would be up the retailer, thus some might offer life-time warranty for hand tools, and others might not. Seems odd if they really implement that scheme.
As for being made in China, keep in mind that the Chinese are capable of building high quality goods, and they are capable of making junk - just like the US.
Bob B
Posted by: gandalf_025 Jan 6 2018, 01:43 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Posted by: mepstein Jan 6 2018, 02:28 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.
If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 6 2018, 02:42 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.
If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.
I got some great deals on Craftsman's boxes by going to the SEARS scratch and dent centers, it's mostly banged up washers and dryers, fridges, etc. But they have a small section of tool boxes and equipment. Like the blue one pictured, it had one door that was bent shut, it was more than 2/3 off regular price. Bog John worked the door for 30 minutes and it works fine, that was 10 years ago.
The red one is my sole inheritance from the late great Dr. Wright.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: flyer86d Jan 6 2018, 03:41 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.
If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.
Exactly Mark. I bought my Snap On tool box, my Snap On scissor lift, and my last tire machine used thru my Snap On dealer. If I wanted something and didn’t want to buy new, I would tell my Snap On dealer and within a couple of weeks, he would have it. I brought everything to my home shop except the tire machine and balancer. I don’t want to add up what I spent on tools but that’s the way I made my living at that time. One fellow that worked for me would buy Snap On tools on EBay used. The dealer would still warranty them. Expensive tools yes. But if you are in the business and needed them every day, it was the way to go.
Charlie
Posted by: Drums66 Jan 6 2018, 03:55 PM
All USA made Craftsman Tools at least 25 years old. See if you can figure out what's wrong with them before scrolling down for the answer(s).
.......Breaker bar 1st & 16. doesn't happen!(or 1/2" drive)
1. 1/2" drive, 15mm, 36 point socket (this was supposed to be a 12 point socket but got forged 3 times)
2. Round drive, 5/8, 12 point socket (this one missed getting forged on the 1/2" drive end)
3. Can you guess what this is? It came in a package with other 1/2" drive sockets
4. 3/8" drive, 3/8", 12 point socket (the 3/8" drive end and the socket end are reversed and the drive end walls are now very thin)
5. 3/8" Drive, 7/16", 12 point socket (this one got forged as a 6pt socket twice)
6. Round drive, 14mm, 6 point socket (this one missed getting forged on the 3/8" drive end)
7. 9/32" drive extension (circa 1935) This one fits nothing that I own. A 1/4" drive socket won't fit on the male end and on the female end it just falls off a 1/4" ratchet. To learn more: http://alloy-artifacts.org/craftsman-early-tools-p3.html
8. #1 Phillips screwdriver. Too bad the phillips blade end got inserted into the handle.
9. 3/8" drive, raw socket. This one did not get embossed with the size or forged on the socket end.
10. 3/8" drive, 3/8", 6 point socket (on the drive end it got forged twice so instead to being square it has 8 points)
11. Open end wrench where the size marking got reversed
12. 3/8" drive, 3/8", round socket (they forgot to forge the socket end on this one)
13. Round drive, 6mm, 6pt socket (The drive end got missed in the forge)
14. Forging flaw that made it all the way through the chroming process (no, this is not a tube wrench)
15. The 5/16 box end of the wrench missed getting forged. Great for turning round nuts
16. This is what happens when you use an 8' pipe as a cheater bar
Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jan 6 2018, 04:08 PM
I had Snap On tools issued to me when I worked on big jets in the Air Force. I still have the 1/4 drive ratchet. If I was a pro working in a shop, I would go with high quality tools. As for now I use the stuff from Lowes.
Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 6 2018, 09:09 PM
For the past 30 years, the majority of my hand tools have been Craftsman. I've got a set of 1/2" drive metric sockets from Stanley, and most of my impact sockets are HF.
I can count the number of broken tools on one hand and half are user error -- like using a 12 pt 18mm plain socket on a motor mount bolt with a 2' breaker bar. I walked into Sears and traded it for a new one no problem.
My SnapOn/MAC/Matco/SK stuff is specialty, like wobble sockets that I know I will break again someday, and torx drivers that are easy to twist.
If I'm going to use an impact gun then I use an impact grade socket.
A pipe 'extension' is a redneck tool. PBblaster and a few hours of soaking has solved all my rusty nut problems.
But lately I've noticed the other Craftsman hand tools have a half price Generic Chinese equivalent, and given how little I use things like hose clamp pliers, I usually buy lowest price.
It's also easy to score Craftsman tools on ebay at a significant discount. Which is nice cause I'm a tool slut. 
Posted by: sithot Jan 7 2018, 06:50 AM
Chinesium drill bits and these:
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 7 2018, 03:53 PM
Wow. I had no idea there's be this many replies!
It seems that Snap-On is the favorite, with older Craftsman coming in next.
I just want to support American manufacturing and American companies. I get that we're in a global economy and that often we get "Made in USA out of global components." I can do a web search for "Made in USA tools", but I thought I'd see what everyone else thought/did.
Out of curiosity I priced out a #2 Phillips screwdriver from various brands:
Project Source (available at Lowes): $0.98
Harbor Freight: $1.69
Stanley $3.50 (made in USA)
Husky: $4.22
Kobalt: $7.35
Craftsman: $6-7
Proto: $8-9
SK: $12
Snap-On: $24
I get paying for good tools, but it seems most of us don't need the high-end stuff, unless we are doing this for a living. Even then, it seems a steep price to pay. I'm all for supporting American companies, but at what point are we being ripped off? $24 for a screwdriver?! WTF!? How is it that much better?
I've broken a Harbor Freight breaker bar, found a broken HF box wrench, stripped a few smaller Craftsman screwdrivers and broken a Kobalt screw extractor. I was not misusing any of them. All the stores gave me new ones/money back with no hassles.
I couldn't find any site that reviewed tools the same way Consumer Reports reviews items. Toolguyd.com, Garage Journal and a few others have forums in which they discuss them and posters chime in, but there is no formal testing. Anybody know of any sites?
I'd like to buy reasonably priced, American-made tools from a vendor that has easy, no-hassle returns. That used to be Sears.
There's a Harbor Freight everywhere it seems, but I've broken more of their tools than any other.
I could go with Husky or Kobalt, but they make most of their stuff in China.
Stanley makes decent tools, but I want to see what happens with them "re-shoring" their manufacturing. They have many "Made in the USA" tools, but they don't seem to have too many tools for automotive use.
Proto and SK can be bought online, but it seems like a hassle to return anything. I have to wait to send it there, then wait to get it back. If I need a tool now, I'm screwed.
I live in LA and have hardly ever seen a Snap-On, Matco or other tool truck anywhere. I'm not so sure they'll come to my house so I can buy one tool, either. I'm not sure I want to go to them; for the prices they charge, they should come to me.
Another option is to got to swap meets, but then I'm getting used/possibly abused tools.
Sigh...I guess I will wait and see what happens in the tool manufacturing world and what else you people all chime in with! Happy New Year!
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 7 2018, 03:56 PM
This company makes a nice kit I picked up recently.
https://chapmanmfg.com
[/quote]
Thanks for the info. 
This is new to me. I'll have to bookmark them and check them out.
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 7 2018, 04:00 PM
If you find the right Snap On dealer they will "play ball", especially if they're not having to "carry you" on the books. The dealer I used is a fine person and a good businessman when it comes to selling. He's not in love with inventory.
What do you mean by ""carry you" on the books"?
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 7 2018, 04:06 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.
If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.
1. Is someone telling these not so savvy young guys that they might be getting ripped off? Don't get me wrong, I agree that buying good tools is important, but financing them?! And how are they not web-savvy? Seems like they could get a good set of tools from Proto/SK (I think they have programs for students and apprentices) or even Home Depot/Lowes for way less.
2. Is it a good deal if it's still really pricey? How much is a used/repossessed tool box from Snap-On? Tool boxes seem to be one of those things that everyone makes well. Even Harbor Freight seems to have decent ones.
BTW, no disrespect/animosity intended or implied, I'm just asking/having an interesting discussion!
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Jan 7 2018, 04:09 PM
[quote name='NoEcm' date='Jan 6 2018, 10:34 AM' post='2564958']
All USA made Craftsman Tools at least 25 years old. See if you can figure out what's wrong with them before scrolling down for the answer(s).
This is really interesting! Where'd you get all these? Just collect them over the years? How come you didn't take any if them back? 
Posted by: sithot Jan 7 2018, 04:19 PM
If you find the right Snap On dealer they will "play ball", especially if they're not having to "carry you" on the books. The dealer I used is a fine person and a good businessman when it comes to selling. He's not in love with inventory.
What do you mean by ""carry you" on the books"?
Snap On will finance your purchases, meaning monthly payments, which the rep keeps records of on the books (bookkeeping) and is responsible for. Mechanics, like any other creditor, can be slow to pay. Worse yet, they can move or disappear and the representative is left "holding the bag".
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/left-holding-the-bag
When a customer walks in with cash/check/credit card he's more inclined to "Make A Deal". It's money in his pocket NOW. There is no doubt he will be paid.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 7 2018, 05:20 PM
I think a clear distinction needs to be made on what tools and for what purpose. Anyone who makes their living off tools should buy the best quality tools they can, and have a very wide variety of tools to be able to do their job quickly. Time=$$$. And yes financing a set of tools can make sense, if you're a full time mechanic, they will pay for themselves.
But for someone working on their car in their garage it doesn't make sense to spend thousands on tools, the math just isn't there. For a home set you probably shouldn't spend over $500-1000, and includes a medium sized compressor and a impact fun.
Posted by: NoEcm Jan 7 2018, 06:01 PM
This is really interesting! Where'd you get all these? Just collect them over the years? How come you didn't take any if them back?
These were collected when I worked at Sears part time while attending college.
Posted by: 90quattrocoupe Jan 7 2018, 06:08 PM
The majority of my hand tools are Craftsman. I always liked the convenience of being able to buy an individual socket or wrench when I needed just one. Or the convenience of getting a replacement for a damaged tools. I haven't bought any China Craftsman products.
If I needed a tool that Craftsman did not make, such a flared crows feet, I bought SK or Facom.
If I needed a specialty tool that was designed for use on a particular car I owned, I bought the tool. I always figured that the cost of the tool was cheaper than having someone else do the work for me. If I couldn't find the tool, I made it.
Greg W.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 7 2018, 06:12 PM
Snap on is as big a rip off as Harley..
You want to drink the Kool aid, go for it..
Neither is worth the price....
Yes but there’s are reasons it works. They come to you. That’s very appealing to a mechanic who doesn’t have to leave work to buy what they need. Even the young guys at our shop don’t seem to be very internet savy when it comes to buying on the web. They offer financing for everything, including the big expense tool boxes. Again, the guys at our shop don’t seem to be very savy about the cost of long term financing. At least for us, the rep will warranty most anything so at least the investment is usable for a long time without the hassle of traditional returns.
If you want a good deal on a tool box, ask the snap on, Matco, or Mac dealer for a repossessed box. They get them all the time, usually in great shape and the reps will deal since they already made their money once, the second sale is gravy for them and has already been written it off by the company.
1. Is someone telling these not so savvy young guys that they might be getting ripped off? Don't get me wrong, I agree that buying good tools is important, but financing them?! And how are they not web-savvy? Seems like they could get a good set of tools from Proto/SK (I think they have programs for students and apprentices) or even Home Depot/Lowes for way less.
2. Is it a good deal if it's still really pricey? How much is a used/repossessed tool box from Snap-On? Tool boxes seem to be one of those things that everyone makes well. Even Harbor Freight seems to have decent ones.
BTW, no disrespect/animosity intended or implied, I'm just asking/having an interesting discussion!
A lot of mechanics, especially the young guys, work paycheck to paycheck so financing is important for them. They have no idea what the first al cost of the tool will be, just the monthly payment.
It’s also important for them to get the best tools they can “afford”. If I strip a nut, bolt or screw, it’s a pita. If they do it, it’s money.
A nice used box might be $5-6k. That’s a pretty big box, much bigger than box store ones. You will need a truck with a lift gate or forklift to move it. The high end boxes are nice. They are mechanic sized and built very tough. I have a HF box in my house, works fine for me but would probably collapse with all the tools our guys keep the n their box.
Trust me, I understand the financing issue and try to help the guys but it usually falls on deaf ears. At least my kids understand the money thing so I have to be satisfied with that. ...Even if they don’t understand my 914 addiction.
Posted by: somd914 Jan 7 2018, 06:37 PM
A good friend is an orthopedic surgeon. I enjoy looking through his tool catalogs. Prices, well, you have to inquire... Then you get into repair fixtures - delivered as needed on a short notice, i.e. within an hour or two. Pricing, well, sell your 914 at you might have enough.
Snap On is a bargain compared to these guys...
But seriously, I see the Snap On truck at our fab shop on a regular schedule, and if requested will make unscheduled trips. Expensive, yes, but quality engineering, materials, manufacturing, distribution, and customer service/warranty come at a cost.
You can spend $15k on a new Kia, or you can spend $150k on a new Porsche - your call.
Posted by: sixaddict Jan 7 2018, 07:38 PM
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Sorry to do this but this hardly warrants the energy expended !
Craftsman ( my HS graduation gift so long ago they were good and so was I) has been crap for years.
I actually have bought their professional grade which was pretty nice.
Snap-on is ridiculous but may be worthy for the professional ( still very high $$)......hardly worth the $$ for the hobbyist.
All of this is a great example of brand marketing ... ...one that has been carried by a consumer warranty with a now inferior product and the other but high price image where technicians have to make payments for stuff they could get much cheaper..
Think about it....
Posted by: MarkV Jan 7 2018, 07:50 PM
Nobody has mentioned used tools. Most of my tools were bought in sets used. Lots of Craftsman sockets. I don't like Craftsman ratchets, end wrenches or pliers most of those I have are Snap-On. Metric end wrenches are Proto. My 1/4" sockets are all Craftsman but ratchets are Snap-On. There are a couple of local used tools stores where I found most of them. I have a few odd ball Harbor Freight tools like my giant 1/2 breaker bar that has been used maybe twice. Like many of you I have been collecting since I was 18. I hardly ever buy tools new.
Posted by: lalee914 Jan 8 2018, 09:47 AM
This is an interesting thread. Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in. Almost all my hand tools are Craftsman and most of it is pretty old by now. I have broken a very few things and only when I was totally abusing them. There used to be a Sears Hardware store less than a mile from my house and I was always running over there to buy the one socket or odd ball wrench or extra long extension that I needed to finish a job. Unfortunately, as part of the effort to make Sears profitable, they closed that store many years ago and now I don't go to Sears any more. I am very happy with Craftsman quality. I see that Ace hardware stores are now carrying Craftsman and honoring the warranty for broken tools.
My son spent a TON of money and bought a large Snap-on tool box and filled it with Snap-on tools. Very expensive but top quality stuff. If I was a professional mechanic I would only use Snap-on or equivalent. For my home use, Craftsman works well.
Number 1 son used to work in a junk yard (which is another story altogether) and he started picking up tools left behind by people taking parts off cars. Probably 90% was Craftsman. We put together and gave away several very nice socket and wrench sets. If any of the tools were rusty or beat up, just take it back to Sears and exchange it for a new one. Hard to beat new tools for free.
All of the Harbor Freight tools I have ever bought have been complete junk. Whenever I buy anything from HF I always assume that I will throw it away after doing the one job that I bought the tool for if I am lucky enough to complete the job without the tool breaking first. I used to live about a mile from HF but now fortunately, the nearest one is many miles away.
Posted by: ChapmanMFG Jan 8 2018, 10:34 AM
This company makes a nice kit I picked up recently.
https://chapmanmfg.com
[/quote]
Not only do we manufacture our tools in CT, we source all our materials in the USA as well. 
Thanks so much for recommending our tools! We're a small shop (15 of us) and we don't have the marketing budget that big companies like Stanley do, so most of our new sales come from happy customers sharing our tools online and in person.
Customers have used our tools on cars probably back to 1936. Do 914's have specific fasteners types/locations that our tools suit particularly well? Is there anything we don't make that you need? Feedback is appreciated!
If there's a few people interested in sets I'm happy to post a discount code.
Thanks again for posting about us!
Joel
Marketing at Chapman MFG
www.chapmanmfg.com
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Jan 8 2018, 12:32 PM
All of the Harbor Freight tools I have ever bought have been complete junk. Whenever I buy anything from HF I always assume that I will throw it away after doing the one job that I bought the tool for
Man, you are soooo right about certain HF stuff. I wait for their sale and buy the max of 5 paint sprayers, use them once, and chuck them. I used to try and clean them but they are so cheap they never work well twice, but at $7 on sale you can't go wrong, and no cleanup, it's like eating out!
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Posted by: bulitt Jan 8 2018, 12:42 PM
Have owned Craftsman from the late 60's, SK, snap-on.
What is important to me is that they are forged steel. Most Asian branded stuff is not.
Kobalt, Husky are forged and reasonably priced. Work well for me.
Posted by: NoEcm Jan 8 2018, 07:37 PM
This is what happens if you collect too many tools and don't have enough garage space. I have to use a step ladder to get to the top box:
Posted by: jeffdon Jan 8 2018, 09:57 PM
My Dad was a Snap on dealer from the 70's until he retired in the early 2000's. He once showed me a 3/8 box wrench that was new, next to one from the 80's. The box end was much slimer on the old one. Snap on was cheeping out on the steel, doing raw forging in China, and finishing in USA.
Or at least that is what he thought.
Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Mar 13 2018, 08:44 PM
Craftsman was bought by Black and Decker, whose DeWalt brand is ok. But Craftsman has been on the decline for some time, trading on the name. We mostly use Craftsman and the older stuff far outperforms the newer stuff. And by newer stuff I mean 5-10 years old. I have no idea what crap they are selling now.
I now have a better idea what you get when you order Craftsman now, a hair above junk. I ordered a small briefcase style set for my house. I went to change a battery in my truck and couldn't come up with an extension, so figured it would be good to have a set like the one I used to have back in the day. Luckily, I will not be using this one on the regular for doing actual car work, it will probably be used more for lawnmower and garden furniture. But it was cheap, $47 shipped.
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Posted by: strawman Mar 14 2018, 12:07 AM
I have been managing public transit systems since the early 1990s. Our shop guys rely on and must supply their own good quality hand tools (we supply specialized and REALLY big tools). We always advise the new Technicians to spend their hard-earned dollars on Snap-On tools but to wait for a few years to buy a big Snap-On box; a Technician-C or -B should not saddle himself with $12k debt on a big fancy box that won’t make him money. The Craftsman Pro and even Harbor Freight boxes are good enough until they reach The Technician-A (journey) level. The Snap-On truck stops by weekly to sell hand tools or try to entice the guys to upgrade their boxes; my shop foreman shoos him away after 30 minutes so that productivity isn’t hampered too much.
I’m a tool whore, as evidenced by my overcrowded suburban 2-car garage. Most of my stuff is old Craftsman, some Craftsman Pro, a few selected Snap-On pieces and a smattering of Chinese shit. I still love my remaining Craftsman Pro screwdrivers originally supplied by Armstrong; the new Craftsman Pro shit sucks. Some day, I’m gonna fork out $300 for a new Snap-On screwdriver set...
Posted by: Front yard mechanic Mar 14 2018, 07:57 AM
just yesterday I was helping my neighbor with a stripped oil drain bolt so I had to hammer a six point socket on. which brand would you choose to destroy? my pick was the hb freight model no big loss. so there are some advantages to the cheep stuff. 
Posted by: mepstein Mar 14 2018, 08:08 AM
I have been managing public transit systems since the early 1990s. Our shop guys rely on and must supply their own good quality hand tools (we supply specialized and REALLY big tools). We always advise the new Technicians to spend their hard-earned dollars on Snap-On tools but to wait for a few years to buy a big Snap-On box; a Technician-C or -B should not saddle himself with $12k debt on a big fancy box that won’t make him money. The Craftsman Pro and even Harbor Freight boxes are good enough until they reach The Technician-A (journey) level. The Snap-On truck stops by weekly to sell hand tools or try to entice the guys to upgrade their boxes; my shop foreman shoos him away after 30 minutes so that productivity isn’t hampered too much.
I’m a tool whore, as evidenced by my overcrowded suburban 2-car garage. Most of my stuff is old Craftsman, some Craftsman Pro, a few selected Snap-On pieces and a smattering of Chinese shit. I still love my remaining Craftsman Pro screwdrivers originally supplied by Armstrong; the new Craftsman Pro shit sucks. Some day, I’m gonna fork out $300 for a new Snap-On screwdriver set...
It’s funny how all our guys have snap on boxes except Bob Russo. He has a couple craftsman boxes. He was the crew chief for Al Holbert’s 962 race team and currently maintains a 962, a Mirage, 2005 LeMans RSR and the Brian Redman Chevron. We say when God needs to borrow a tool to fix his Porsche, he calls Bob.
Posted by: strawman Mar 14 2018, 01:59 PM
Last year, I implemented a new Apprentice class in the shop, and we supply all tools and the box. We purchased a big Craftsman set and a Harbor Freight box. This allows the newbie to begin purchasing his own tools and save up while he works toward the Technician-C position and beyond. I also wonder if it helps the newbie work harder to both "graduate" to better tools and higher pay...
Posted by: mgphoto Mar 14 2018, 05:11 PM
I took a class at LAUSD and the Snap On rep set up student discounts, never ordered anything too expensive also I don't need much, been a shade tree mechanic since 1969, I bought most of my tools one at a time, except for a set of sockets. Mostly Craftsman as Sears was always close by. Some Snap-On, cause I needed it and some Proto impact sockets cause Napa carried them. Haven't broken much, last was a 1/2 inch ratchet, about 3 years ago, the replacement was an even older version ratchet, seemed even more sturdy than the one I turned in.
Posted by: Grelber Mar 14 2018, 06:07 PM
I retired from the electrical channel two years ago, and work at Lowes in the tool dept. to stay busy. I have been told that the Craftsman conversion will start this Fathers' Day, and take almost a year to complete. The first conversion will be for the Kobalt tool chests to be converted to Craftsman. Power tools will be the last piece to be converted.
Posted by: flmont Mar 14 2018, 06:10 PM
Try,... ACE hardware
Posted by: 914 RZ-1 Mar 15 2018, 07:26 PM
I retired from the electrical channel two years ago, and work at Lowes in the tool dept. to stay busy. I have been told that the Craftsman conversion will start this Fathers' Day, and take almost a year to complete. The first conversion will be for the Kobalt tool chests to be converted to Craftsman. Power tools will be the last piece to be converted.
Interesting. Will Kobalt be going away, then? Or, is Craftsman going to be just another brand at Lowes? And, is it going to be made in the US?
Posted by: maf914 Mar 16 2018, 06:33 AM
I retired from the electrical channel two years ago, and work at Lowes in the tool dept. to stay busy. I have been told that the Craftsman conversion will start this Fathers' Day, and take almost a year to complete. The first conversion will be for the Kobalt tool chests to be converted to Craftsman. Power tools will be the last piece to be converted.
Interesting. Will Kobalt be going away, then? Or, is Craftsman going to be just another brand at Lowes? And, is it going to be made in the US?
Stanley/Black and Decker indicate that manufacturing for the Craftsman line will be brought back to the US.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/24/news/companies/craftsman-lowes-sears/index.html
Here are some comments on tool quality and price that match the discussion in this thread.
https://www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/11-Tool-Talk/20708-snap-on-vs-kobalt-hand-tools
Posted by: Grelber Mar 16 2018, 06:48 AM
I retired from the electrical channel two years ago, and work at Lowes in the tool dept. to stay busy. I have been told that the Craftsman conversion will start this Fathers' Day, and take almost a year to complete. The first conversion will be for the Kobalt tool chests to be converted to Craftsman. Power tools will be the last piece to be converted.
Interesting. Will Kobalt be going away, then? Or, is Craftsman going to be just another brand at Lowes? And, is it going to be made in the US?
We haven't been told yet if anything currently sold will be going away. I can't see them dumping Kobalt, but from a space perspective, something will have to go.
Bringing the manufacturing back to the US was part of the negotiations for Lowes to carry the line.
Posted by: maf914 Mar 18 2018, 05:11 PM
Does the Lowe's Kobalt/Craftsman issue have something to do with Lowe's ending sponsorship of the Jimmie Johnson car in NASCAR, which frequently emphasized Kobalt Tools?
http://www.racer.com/nascar/monster-energy-cup/item/148047-lowe-s-to-end-backing-of-johnson-hendrick
Posted by: Grelber Mar 18 2018, 08:30 PM
No idea. I'll see what I can find out.
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