Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Dave Cawdrey Jul 8 2003, 09:30 PM

I just got a email from Paypal stating that a buyer from my auction used someone else's credit card. How the fuck can someone do this? Why am I responsible?

Anyway, dude's name is Thomas Richardson. Beware. Here is his info. Someone should call him

Contact Information for tc_richardson:

User ID: tc_richardson
Name: Thomas Richardson
Company:
City: Vallejo
State: CA
Country: United States
Phone: (707) 643 - 0938

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 8 2003, 09:38 PM

Call him... ask WTF?

Posted by: ! Jul 8 2003, 09:44 PM

Shouldn't the credit card company be the one to contact you?

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 09:46 PM

Not if the guy with the Paypal account complained to Paypal, then the hold it pending an inquiry. FWIW, Paypal inquiries suck if you're the seller...

Warning though, make sure you this isn't just some sort of misunderstanding before you post somebody's info before you try to resolve it with them (if that is the case...). If there is no resolution, THEN flame the crap out of them!

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 09:49 PM

Then again, now that I just looked up the user id....... no longer registered, 6 positive and 2 negative feedbacks... pretty crappy record... Load the gun...........

Posted by: Lawrence914-6 Jul 8 2003, 09:50 PM

THIS is the reason not to have a "Verified" account... linked to your checking/savings.

If you were, they'd yank the money out with a wire transfer, and there's nothing you could do about it.

There's a reason why they push so hard for that!!!

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 8 2003, 10:19 PM

So what's the story? What were you selling? Did you send the guy the stuff? Maybe the guy just borrowed a friends card because he didn't have one of his own.... Hope you didn't ship the goods yet.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 8 2003, 10:27 PM

Dave I need some more info on this.

We have about 5500$ sitting in my PayPal account right now that belongs to you.. Every transaction has been flawless.

I dont understand what is wrong... so what ?? he used a buddy's card.. did you get paid ??

Anybody that uses any credit card can dispute charges..

My PayPal is verified and I pay so people can use credit cards with me (business account)

B

Posted by: Dave Cawdrey Jul 8 2003, 10:41 PM

Here the low down:

Used fog lenses sold for 52 + 4 fer shpping $56 total. He paid thru paypal. A week later, I shipped.

Today, Paypal deducts my account, says "fraud use of card". Wants proof of tracking/shipping. N/A w/ USPS

Posted by: anthony Jul 8 2003, 10:42 PM

When you sell on ebay only accept Paypal from users with a "confirmed" address and then only ship to that confirmed address. Also, don't take paypal for users outside of the US.

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 10:48 PM

You need to send everything with USPS with a tracking number in order to be protected by Paypal as a seller (I know, you probably already know that now...). You need to pay the extra for a tracking number from USPS, but that would have gotten you out of trouble with Paypal.

Unfortunately, you have an uphill battle now. I think (from my recollection) you are hosed from Paypals point of view w/o the tracking number, so you are going to have to go after the guy directly.

Good news is his name/address seem legitimate since they come up correctly on a reverse phone number search. Looks like he's 46 years old too (or his dad is if it is a same name situation... just another tidbit a reverse search turned up.

Still might be a misunderstanding. Have you tried calling the phone number yet?

sm

Posted by: Rob Ways Jul 8 2003, 10:49 PM

Not good news....

A credit card is unsecured credit given to an individual or business. By accepting a credit card payment, YOU as the seller are liable for that payment and can be subject to having to refund the cash for up to 180 days in the case of fraud. According to the credit card company, you are the victim of the fraud, not their customer.

Alternatively, as a consumer, you have up to 180 days to claim you did not buy an item charged to your account, and get your money back if its fraud.

You're only recourse in this case is to track down the deadbeat buyer and file charges. If its any consolation, interstate fraud is a serious charge. I have not been through this, but I'd be pissed at Paypal for making it seem like the buyer was an OK buyer. You do have an address that you shipped to.

To protect yourself, do not take credit cards as payment unless you have a signature (signed in person) and get ID. Its hard for a buyer to say they didn't get something when you show 1) you had the card present, 2) they signed, and 3) you took their ID. Then the credit card merchant company should go after the buyer and have them settle the dispute themselves.

In this case, you are the victim....

We should have a DO NOT DO BUS With wall of all the deadbeat folks.

Posted by: Dave Cawdrey Jul 8 2003, 10:54 PM

look


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 10:57 PM

FWIW, I learned about the tracking numbers the hard way too. Luckily, mine auction was for something cheap. You do have the benefit though of the buyer's information appearing somewhat accurate so you can try to get him directly.

For the benefit of the discussion, here is Paypal's official policy:

What is the Seller Protection Policy?

Sellers will not be held liable for chargebacks due to fraud (including payments made with stolen credit cards and false claims of non-shipment) when they follow the rules of our Seller Protection Policy:

The seller has a Verified U.S. or Canadian Business or Premier Account
The seller ships to the buyer's Confirmed Address.
The seller ships within 7 days of receiving payment.
The seller can provide reasonable proof-of-shipment which can be tracked online. This document must show that you shipped to the buyer's Confirmed Address. For items valued at $250 or more, you must include a signature from the recipient as proof of receipt.
The seller ships tangible goods. Since comparable widely-accepted proof-of-shipment methods are not currently available for intangible goods and services, we are currently unable to offer Seller Protection for digital goods and other electronically-delivered items.
The seller accepted a single payment from one PayPal account for a purchase.
The seller shipped to a domestic (U.S.) buyer at a U.S. address.
When a complaint occurs, sellers need to provide complete information within 7 days of a request from PayPal. However, if PayPal is required by the credit card association to respond immediately to resolve a chargeback, sellers must provide the information within 3 days. PayPal will indicate the response time required in the email message sent to the seller.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 8 2003, 11:00 PM

I ship everything online thru UPS...so I have every tracking since day one and signatures.

It appears I'm missing out on the "Confirmed Address" crap... looks like I'll have to "confirm" all the f-ing people I deal with..


B

Posted by: Dave Cawdrey Jul 8 2003, 11:02 PM

DAMN, I'm out $56 DAMN

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 11:05 PM

Brad,

Not a bad idea to sweep the account one in a while too. I get antsy if I have more then fifteen hundred bucks in there... Checks usually only take about a week to get if you want to keep it off you bank account records (just cash it at your bank and take the cash...)

I use UPS too exclusively. USPS is a PITA to file claims with and you have to pay the extra and get a receipt from the post office. All UPS shipments are automatically insured for $100 and they are fast to settle claims.

sm

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 11:06 PM

Is the phone number bogus or out of service, or no luck that way?

Posted by: ! Jul 8 2003, 11:08 PM

BTW....if you go to www.paypalsucks.com there is the secret phone number for customer service......

Posted by: Malmz Jul 8 2003, 11:09 PM

BTW, I hate to be the one that tells you.............................. it may be $66. Here is the second part of the Paypal policy (not uncommon for banks):

" What is the Chargeback Settlement Fee?

To cover the cost of processing chargebacks, PayPal assesses a $10 fee to sellers who are determined to be at fault for credit card payment chargebacks. The $10 fee will be waived in those cases where the sellers have fulfilled all of the requirements of PayPal's Seller Protection Policy. The $10 fee will also be waived for all sellers participating in our PayPal Preferred program."

So if you collect from the buyer, don't forget to add it.

sm

Posted by: ChrisReale Jul 8 2003, 11:09 PM

Sucks man. Happened to me one time. Buyer said he never received a refund for a returned item, but I sent him payment. I had all the proof though, but it took paypal three months to sort it out, and meanwhile, I was out the $100 while they were sorting it out.

Posted by: GWN7 Jul 8 2003, 11:09 PM

Call the phone number and ask WTF.

Tell him that unless you get a MO the next day, the police will be the next call you make.

Fax the local police all the info you have and make a complaint.

As Ebay owns paypal complain to them (both) about their service. Tell them your going to post this info on several BBS boards with almost 10,000 members and advise everyone not to use their services unless satisfaction is resolved.

Have someone close by, drive by the guys place and scope it/him out.

Watch out selling to those non USA accounts. Is Cali part of the USA?

Posted by: ! Jul 8 2003, 11:09 PM

Their toll free number is (888) 221-1161

Another toll free number is (800) 836-1859

Yet another toll free number is (877)672-9725

Their NEW regular telephone number is: (650) 864-8000

One of their fax numbers is: (402)537-5765

Their mailing address is:

PayPal
P.O. Box 45950
Omaha, NE 68145


The "official" corporate offices are at:

303 Bryant Street
Mountain View, California 94041
(650) 864-8000
(Verified via SEC filings)


Their (old?) corporate offices are at:

1840 Embarcadero Rd.
Palo Alto, CA 94303
US


The Nebraska office is at:

Paypal
11128 John Galt Boulevard
Omaha, NE 68137
(402) 935-2000
(402) 935-7733

Posted by: Jeff Krieger Jul 8 2003, 11:11 PM

I jumped through all of PayPal's hoops to become an "international verified" member but I still don't have a confirmed address and I don't know how to get one. I think it's just discrimination against us Canadians.

Posted by: ChrisReale Jul 8 2003, 11:20 PM

MikeZ is a bounty hunter

Posted by: Tony C Jul 9 2003, 12:41 AM

If he really is in Vallejo Andy, Brad and myself can go "collect." My last name is Colicchio for somethin'.

-tony

Posted by: ! Jul 9 2003, 12:44 AM

Yo Tony....Youse got a Cousin named Guido?

We can make heem sleep wid da fishes.....

Posted by: Tony C Jul 9 2003, 12:49 AM

Exactly Mike

-tony

Posted by: Brad Roberts Jul 9 2003, 12:51 AM

B << is always very polite around T's dad and family...LOL

Vallejo is 25 minutes away.


B

Posted by: 736convers Jul 9 2003, 04:17 AM

Paypal wont do anything without a tracking number.
It states that in the user agreement that no one reads.
You can call and talk to them untill you get blue in the face.
Local law will not do anything without the proper steps.
You have to goto the IFCC site
http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp
From there you file your complaint. Local law will come to you for a statement. It then progresses up the ladder of authority. Until it goes back down to the local law in his town. If he doesn't comply and you can prove the rip off it will go to court.
I went through this once but it never made it to court, he ended up paying.
And make sure no one threatens him or anything like that now that you have given out his info. You would have troubles of your own.

Good luck!!!!!

Posted by: garyh Jul 9 2003, 09:56 AM

Contact the post office in both cities; yours, and his.

Because you shipped it USPS, it's a federal crime, and the PO inspectors can take care of it.

Hardest part will be getting a POI to listen to you.

Posted by: silver six Jul 9 2003, 05:10 PM

Korijo

The police won't do anything about this because it is too small, and you are out of state so they don't care. Paypal and e-bay will not get involved because their whole business model is predicated on the idea that they are not liable for fraud between customers (if they were, the service would cost 10x as much as it does).

Your best bet is to contact this individual directly. Try to work it out with him. If you can't work it out then send him a "demand" letter threatening a lawsuit. Also threaten to go after legal "costs." If that does not get his attention then sue him in California state court and one of us will go to court for you here. You can sue him in federal court where you live but only if you can find a federal cause of action and even then you will have personal jurisdiction problems (I don't think it will work).

Douglas