Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Look like the right list of bits for a 914/6 build

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 11:25 AM

Good morning, can we pretend for a minute that I was going to do a 914/6 build with a 1974 that is already missing its engine. Further, can we imagine that I would be trying to build a car that would be used rather than showed, and that building a clone and/or a "correct" car is not a goal. The goal would be a well balanced, reliable and sorted out car for backroad touring use.

Does this look like the necessary bits?

-2.7 or 3.0l engine with CIS (have this)
-engine tin
-oil tank
-front oil cooler
-to/from oil cooler lines
-throttle linkage
-fuel pump
-fuel lines
-engine lid latch relocation bits (due to CIS)
-headers
-flywheel
-ECU
-CDI box
-O2 sensor
-Engine mount
-320i front brakes since the extra horsepower probably deserves it

Edit - adding these from Cario and Defianty

muffler
thermostat for the oil cooler
gauges to work with new engine
Filler neck for the oil tank
Oil dipstick
Oil filter console
Six muffler
19mm master cylinder

FI harness (missed that one)

Edit - adding from Lucky9146

Conversion Wiring harness?
914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI
Shift Rod modified for headers
Oil cooler thermostat
Oil cooler shroud
Oil Cooler Fans
Oil Fed chain tensioners


Edit - adding from mb911

headers or heat exchangers

Am I missing anything? I did try searching and reading prior discussions.

Thanks!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 11 2018, 11:31 AM

That's a pretty good start. You might want to consider some light chassis stiffening or reenforcement, 5 lug conversion, upgraded suspension, muffler, thermostat for the oil cooler, gauges to work with new engine, etc. Should be a fun build and car. Of course, as you have seen in my build, rust is the enemy of these cars. Make it structurally sound and build from there. beerchug.gif

Posted by: defianty Jan 11 2018, 11:36 AM

Yep that's a good list to start, here's a few extra bits you'll need.

Filler neck for the oil tank
Oil dipstick
Oil filter console
Six muffler
19mm master cylinder

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 11:48 AM

Thanks gentlemen.

@Cario, thanks for pointing out the body stiffening. I didn't list that since I had already decided to do it, it has become a SOP on all the builds. I just finished doing that on my 912 project actually. Thanks for that and the other bits.

@defianty, thanks for the response as well and those other bits I missed.

The plan would be to take my time, do what Cario confirmed related to shell stiffening and assemble all of the bits. I have other things to keep me busy so I have the "luxury" of not having to rush.

Make sense? Lots of coaching and experiences in past threads that have been a huge help.

Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 11 2018, 11:51 AM

Take a look at my build thread for some ideas. Mine is a '74 with a 3.0 but not CIS.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 11:51 AM

QUOTE(tomeric914 @ Jan 11 2018, 11:51 AM) *

Take a look at my build thread for some ideas. Mine is a '74 with a 3.0 but not CIS.


Will do, thanks.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 11 2018, 12:17 PM

Horsepower has nothing to do with needing bigger brakes. More effective brakes are needed when mass or velocity or both are increased.


Posted by: Lucky9146 Jan 11 2018, 12:19 PM

Yes good start.

Probably need:
Conversion Wiring harness?
914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI
Shift Rod modified for headers
Oil cooler thermostadt
Oil cooler shroud
Oil Cooler Fans
Oil Fed chain tensioners, if not already there
And all the little stuff you find you need along the way. biggrin.gif


Several of us on here have done conversions so help is available check out my thread but it is not FI http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=261197
Best of luck and keep us posted on progress, even small stuff.
It's a journey
white914.jpg

Posted by: burton73 Jan 11 2018, 03:18 PM

Do you have the car yet?

I seem to remember you getting out of a car before you got into it but lost a deposit?
I am old and may have that wrong.

I am in Los Angeles So cal. where are you.

Good list of stuff for a conversation.

Bob B



Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 03:53 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 11 2018, 12:17 PM) *

Horsepower has nothing to do with needing bigger brakes. More effective brakes are needed when mass or velocity or both are increased.


Well, the increased horsepower will likely increase my velocity.

Grin.


Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 03:59 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Jan 11 2018, 03:18 PM) *

Do you have the car yet?

I seem to remember you getting out of a car before you got into it but lost a deposit?
I am old and may have that wrong.

I am in Los Angeles So cal. where are you.

Good list of stuff for a conversation.

Bob B


Hi Bob, you are remembering correctly.

I actually bought a good car from a great seller early this week. It is a ‘74 with a solid body, engine gone already, and driver + paint.

Came with a running 2.7L CIS, and I have since tracked down a 3.0L CIS that is ready to go in after a service.

Given that the car needs an engine anyway, figured now is the time to dig deep and put one of those engines in. Just focusing on the end goal and not getting an interim 4 cylinder in place only to remove it seems ultimately to be a better approach for my specific goals (to be extra clear I am not dogging original engine cars in anyway).

I am in Orange County btw...


Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 04:02 PM

QUOTE(Lucky9146 @ Jan 11 2018, 12:19 PM) *

Yes good start.

Probably need:
Conversion Wiring harness?
914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI
Shift Rod modified for headers
Oil cooler thermostadt
Oil cooler shroud
Oil Cooler Fans
Oil Fed chain tensioners, if not already there
And all the little stuff you find you need along the way. biggrin.gif


Several of us on here have done conversions so help is available check out my thread but it is not FI http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=261197
Best of luck and keep us posted on progress, even small stuff.
It's a journey
white914.jpg


Thanks, will add those to my list.

I am planning on starting to acquire the conversion bits while I finish the 912 and sell a couple cars to help fund this.

Not going to rush the build, been there,regretted that.

I have been reading past conversion threads and making notes, it’s been a big help.

Thanks!




Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 04:03 PM

Here she is...
Attached Image

Posted by: mb911 Jan 11 2018, 04:21 PM

Great list also 6 headers or heatexchangers will be needed..

Posted by: barefoot Jan 11 2018, 04:48 PM

If you're sticking with the CIS and want O2 sensor, you'll need 1980 or newer CIS controls.
That was the first year that used an O2 sensor to feedback mixture control

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 05:17 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 11 2018, 04:21 PM) *

Great list also 6 headers or heatexchangers will be needed..


Thanks.

Wondering about skipping the heat exchangers since I live in SoCal....

Any been there / skipped those thoughts?

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 05:19 PM

QUOTE(barefoot @ Jan 11 2018, 04:48 PM) *

If you're sticking with the CIS and want O2 sensor, you'll need 1980 or newer CIS controls.
That was the first year that used an O2 sensor to feedback mixture control


Ah, my systems pre-date that so I can drop that from the list unless it is a worthwhile upgrade.

Do the later CIS systems with the O2 sensor work a meaningful amount better?

Thanks!

Posted by: burton73 Jan 11 2018, 05:25 PM

You are on your way. Great guys that will help you out if you need and give great advice more than any other Porsche site I have found.

2.7 S is nice but the 3.0 are a super choice for engine, just stronger with better elements. I went with a later 3.0 and put 3.2 hears with the bigger vales different cams and 46PMOs

I had a 74 ( factory Black car) with a 3.0 CIS conversation back in early 80 when not that many people knew what to do. Stock body with Mahle Gas Burner Sports Wheels for Porsche 911 914- Now $4900.


Blue is a great color. Are you going to keep it a stock body?

Bob B

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 05:30 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Jan 11 2018, 05:25 PM) *

You are on your way. Great guys that will help you out if you need and give great advice more than any other Porsche site I have found.

2.7 S is nice but the 3.0 are a super choice for engine, just stronger with better elements. I went with a later 3.0 and put 3.2 hears with the bigger vales different cams and 46PMOs

I had a 74 ( factory Black car) with a 3.0 CIS conversation back in early 80 when not that many people knew what to do. Stock body with Mahle Gas Burner Sports Wheels for Porsche 911 914- Now $4900.


Blue is a great color. Are you going to keep it a stock body?

Bob B


Hi Bob. Everyone here as been super helpful, I feel very fortunate to have found you all.

Leaning towards 3.0l as well...

Did you like the CIS? I know most like the sound / looks of the PMO carbs but I don't think I really want to spend the money those at this point when I have a happy CIS system. The car will see altitude changes as well.

I am currently planning on keeping t a stock narrow body car.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 11 2018, 06:18 PM

CIS, in Good working condition, makes for a nice driver. It’s not so good if you want to hot rod the engine.
If you have access to a 3.0, it’s a great engine. Just about bulitproof. The single turbo 962 at our shop uses a 3.0 block for the base of the engine. It was dyno’d at 780hp.

Posted by: mb911 Jan 11 2018, 06:19 PM

How about patience and overage money and more patience.. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 06:48 PM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 11 2018, 06:18 PM) *

CIS, in Good working condition, makes for a nice driver. It’s not so good if you want to hot rod the engine.
If you have access to a 3.0, it’s a great engine. Just about bulitproof. The single turbo 962 at our shop uses a 3.0 block for the base of the engine. It was dyno’d at 780hp.


Drivability is more important to me then the last bit of possible power, she'll be more than adequately powered with a 3 L anyway.

Thanks for the input.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 11 2018, 06:49 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 11 2018, 06:19 PM) *

How about patience and overage money and more patience.. biggrin.gif


Shouldn't there be at least one more "...and more money" in there?


Posted by: burton73 Jan 11 2018, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 11 2018, 04:49 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 11 2018, 06:19 PM) *

How about patience and overage money and more patience.. biggrin.gif


Shouldn't there be at least one more "...and more money" in there?


From a song by George Harrison;

But it's gonna take money,
A whole lot of spending money,
It's goanna take plenty of money,
To do it right child

It's goanna take time,
A whole lot of precious time,
It's goanna take patience and time, um
To do it, to do it, to do it, to do it, to do it
To do it right child.

Or this song is three words long.

Bob B



Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 12 2018, 12:13 AM

Money, and patience.

I almost gave up on my conversion because I became frustrated. The chorus here kept me on the straight & narrow. There are some really good people here. Really.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 12 2018, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 12 2018, 12:13 AM) *

Money, and patience.

I almost gave up on my conversion because I became frustrated. The chorus here kept me on the straight & narrow. There are some really good people here. Really.


What was the hardest part?

Posted by: mepstein Jan 12 2018, 08:48 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 12 2018, 09:40 AM) *

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 12 2018, 12:13 AM) *

Money, and patience.

I almost gave up on my conversion because I became frustrated. The chorus here kept me on the straight & narrow. There are some really good people here. Really.


What was the hardest part?

It will cost more than you plan - money
It will take longer than you think - patience

Totally worth it in the end. driving.gif




I think Doug nailed it when he said - 90% done, 90% to go.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jan 12 2018, 09:02 AM

Though you have warm weather in California, you still might want to consider heat exchangers to provide defrosting. Now that they’re once again available (either OEM or mb911’s beautiful stainless ones), you may want to check costs for headers vs. exchangers.

Also, Auto Atlanta produced a nice little booklet on the conversion with wiring harness charts and oil tank cut-out templates.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 12 2018, 09:04 AM

I'd vote 3.0 as well, it's what I have, but if I had a running 2.7 that's what I'd use... at least for now.
I'd get the 2.7 running and document it because a running engine will get a better sale price. While I was doing this I would search for the engine I really wanted, like a 3.0 thru 3.6.

The 3.0 is a great engine, but CIS while OK enough for a stock engine is a bit sucky. The 3.2 is the gold standard for a factory FI engine conversion.
My 3.0 has cams, etc and runs weber carbs.

You said you had a flywheel, do you have the clutch?
You need a adapter plate/ring, pressure plate and disc, most use the KEP kit.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 12 2018, 01:55 PM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 12 2018, 09:04 AM) *

I'd vote 3.0 as well, it's what I have, but if I had a running 2.7 that's what I'd use... at least for now.
I'd get the 2.7 running and document it because a running engine will get a better sale price. While I was doing this I would search for the engine I really wanted, like a 3.0 thru 3.6.

The 3.0 is a great engine, but CIS while OK enough for a stock engine is a bit sucky. The 3.2 is the gold standard for a factory FI engine conversion.
My 3.0 has cams, etc and runs weber carbs.

You said you had a flywheel, do you have the clutch?
You need a adapter plate/ring, pressure plate and disc, most use the KEP kit.


Thanks Mark, good catch and will add those.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 12 2018, 06:05 PM

You also need a 914 oil cooler or a 911 cooler modified to 914 spec. I would recommend you keep the factory cooler and since you're in a hot area the front cooler.

Ben's (mb911) oil tank is about the best deal going, I believe he can set you up with just about everything needed in that area. Ben is also reproducing the front cooler lines.

The adaptor clutch from KEP I mentioned will work on both the 2.7 and 3.0/3.2, just the flywheels are different.

The BMW brakes are old school, it's debatable if it gives much more stopping power.
Most do the 5 lug porsche conversion, I did the 3" struts with Alfa brembos which are the same as 914/early 911 M calipers but in alunimum.
You would need 5 bolt rims, but those 4 bolt fuchs you have are in demand to offset cost.

Really take your time and look at other peoples conversion threads before you plop down cash. The /6 conversions are getting spendy and you don't want to be buying wrong bits.


Posted by: Tdskip Jan 12 2018, 10:01 PM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Jan 12 2018, 06:05 PM) *

You also need a 914 oil cooler or a 911 cooler modified to 914 spec. I would recommend you keep the factory cooler and since you're in a hot area the front cooler.

Ben's (mb911) oil tank is about the best deal going, I believe he can set you up with just about everything needed in that area. Ben is also reproducing the front cooler lines.

The adaptor clutch from KEP I mentioned will work on both the 2.7 and 3.0/3.2, just the flywheels are different.

The BMW brakes are old school, it's debatable if it gives much more stopping power.
Most do the 5 lug porsche conversion, I did the 3" struts with Alfa brembos which are the same as 914/early 911 M calipers but in alunimum.
You would need 5 bolt rims, but those 4 bolt fuchs you have are in demand to offset cost.

Really take your time and look at other peoples conversion threads before you plop down cash. The /6 conversions are getting spendy and you don't want to be buying wrong bits.


Thanks Mark

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 12 2018, 10:14 PM

OK - to try and get myself organized and start hunting for parts at best possible prices (while supporting members here when/where possible) I have taken the list you helped me prepare and started listing the parts source next to the item needed.

Needed item | Sourcing

-engine tin | Fiberglass OK to use?
-oil tank | going with Ben's
-front oil cooler | any recommendations?
-to/from oil cooler lines | going with Ben'sn
-throttle linkage | any recommendations?
-fuel pump | 3.0 911 pump OK I assume?
-fuel lines | custom, or is there a kit?
-engine lid latch relocation bits (due to CIS) | home fabricate?
-flywheel | lighten the 3.0 one or leave as is?
-CDI box | got it covered
-O2 sensor | not needed
-Engine mount | firewall mount best?
-muffler | got it
-thermostat for the oil cooler | got it
-gauges to work with new engine | 3.0 911 gauges
-Filler neck for the oil tank | Ben?
-Oil dipstick | Ben?
-Oil filter console | Ben?
-19mm master cylinder| | got it covered
-FI harness | Perry Kiehl
-Conversion Wiring harness? | any ideas?
-914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI | any ideas?
-Shift Rod modified for headers | Tangerine
-Oil Cooler Fans | got it covered
-Oil Fed chain tensioners | got it covered
-headers or heat exchangers | got it covered

Any input?

Posted by: Blue6 Jan 12 2018, 10:42 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 11 2018, 04:17 PM) *

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 11 2018, 04:21 PM) *

Great list also 6 headers or heatexchangers will be needed..


Thanks.

Wondering about skipping the heat exchangers since I live in SoCal....

Any been there / skipped those thoughts?


If you skip the heat exchangers, just add seat heaters before upholstery.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 12 2018, 10:54 PM

QUOTE(Blue6 @ Jan 12 2018, 10:42 PM) *

If you skip the heat exchangers, just add seat heaters before upholstery.


Good idea.


Posted by: raynekat Jan 12 2018, 11:51 PM

Perry Kiehl (on this website) will build you a killer engine wiring harness for your 914-6 conversion.

Fiberglass engine tin will be fragile. A better but more expensive option is Restoration Design's better than factory engine sheet metal for $900.

Best to use the 911 type of gauges that would have come with your 3 liter engine.

Posted by: porschetub Jan 13 2018, 12:23 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jan 13 2018, 05:14 PM) *

OK - to try and get myself organized and start hunting for parts at best possible prices (while supporting members here when/where possible) I have taken the list you helped me prepare and started listing the parts source next to the item needed.

Needed item | Sourcing

-engine tin | Fiberglass OK to use?
-oil tank | Will check out Ben's
-front oil cooler | any recommendations?
-to/from oil cooler lines | Will talk to Ben
-throttle linkage | any recommendations?
-fuel pump | 3.0 911 pump OK I assume?
-fuel lines | custom, or is there a kit?
-engine lid latch relocation bits (due to CIS) | home fabricate?
-flywheel | lighten the 3.0 one or leave as is?
-CDI box | got it covered
-O2 sensor | not needed
-Engine mount | firewall mount best?
-muffler | got it
-thermostat for the oil cooler | got it
-gauges to work with new engine | 911 gauges?
-Filler neck for the oil tank | Ben?
-Oil dipstick | Ben?
-Oil filter console | Ben?
-19mm master cylinder| | got it covered
-FI harness (missed that one) | any ideas?
-Conversion Wiring harness? | any ideas?
-914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI | any ideas?
-Shift Rod modified for headers | any ideas?
-Oil Cooler Fans | got it covered
-Oil Fed chain tensioners | got it covered
-headers or heat exchangers | got it covered

Any input?


In some order;
GRP engine tins are ok and a cheap solution but not as strong ,fit can be questionable,PM Forrest he made a set of clever ones,
oil cooler Setrab,RX7 or similar, ,Bruce Stone had some Merc ones a while back,
fuel lines are Tangerine racing or custom build yourself from truck brakeline tube,
flywheel ...leave that stock,
engine mount..so many out there but thats your call,Maddog,PMS and one member on here makes them...maybe talk to Ben on that.,
gauges mid year 70's 911 ok and mount a separate vdo 52mm fuel gauge in the lower dash,cheaper than a triple gauge conversion...up to you,
engine harness ,only one go to guy on that,pm Perry Kiehl top man makes a great product,
throttle, use stock 911 parts and drill and tap the gearbox housing or buy and expensive conversion kit..again your call,
shiftrod ? spend the coin on a Tangerine conversion...cause it works,mine was a mare to custom build...again up to you,

Just factor in a lot of time and $$$ as mentioned cause there's always this bit and that bit....all adds up even if you buy shit loads on pre-made conversion parts.
All in all a great conversion everytime you drive beer.gif .

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 13 2018, 06:58 AM

Wait - Forrest is on here? Great.

I know him, I watched him build his car next to me at the workshop. Is Keith on here too?

I'll give Forrest a ring.

Will update the list above, thanks for the considerations and ideas.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 13 2018, 07:15 AM

914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI | any ideas?
Rich Johnson - a914guy@aol.com - reproduction 914-6 shift linkage with a bracket to make it bolt onto a 914-4 trans.

I really like the pivoting engine mounts. Either Patric Motor Sports - PMS or Naro Motorsports. I have 2 of the Naro mounts. They are $125 less than PMS and I like them best.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 13 2018, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 13 2018, 07:15 AM) *

914-6 trans mid-plate for throttle or some other contraption, not sure w/FI | any ideas?
Rich Johnson - a914guy@aol.com - reproduction 914-6 shift linkage with a bracket to make it bolt onto a 914-4 trans.

I really like the pivoting engine mounts. Either Patric Motor Sports - PMS or Naro Motorsports. I have 2 of the Naro mounts. They are $125 less than PMS and I like them best.


Good morning.

These folks?

https://naroescapemotorsports.com/

Does Rich's kit with a Tangerine shift linkage set up?

Thanks!

Posted by: mb911 Jan 13 2018, 08:44 AM

Tom,

I am going to try to call you today to talk through all your options..

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 13 2018, 08:45 AM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Jan 13 2018, 08:44 AM) *

Tom,

I am going to try to call you today to talk through all your options..


Thanks

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)