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Posted by: Cal Jan 13 2018, 10:05 AM

I've posted several threads recently regarding Fuchs and tire types/sizes. I'm on the fence about staying with the stock 4-lug alloys that came on my 2.0L car or converting over to a 5-lug to run the 911 deep sixes. If I did the conversion I'd probably use PMB's kit. My question is.....am I an absolute idiot to even consider doing this to an original unmolested '74 2.0L? I know it's my car and I can do whatever I want but I'm looking for advise / opinions. If I did the conversion with Eric's kit could I ever convert it back to a 4-lug without much trouble. If I left the car unaltered I'd at least replace the old 165/SR15 tires with the period correct Michelin XWX or the Pirelli CN36's in the 185/70/15 size. Below are photos of the car....



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Posted by: gothspeed Jan 13 2018, 10:13 AM

That car is beautiful. I would keep the 4 lugs, especially on a narrow body.

When i had a narrow body LE i used 195/60-15 tires which gave it a slightly more updated look IMO

But i would leave that car as is!

Posted by: rudedude Jan 13 2018, 10:13 AM

Leave it original, new original tires would be nice

Posted by: Montreal914 Jan 13 2018, 10:25 AM

As you mentioned, your car, your decision.
I personally think your car looks very nice and classic in this configuration especially with the 165s.

That said, I'm sure it would be as classic with the deep Fuchs but maybe also keep the era tire size.

As for getting things back to stock after a 5 lug conversion, it's just bolt on stuff so that's not a show stopper. Yes rear hubs need to be pressed out of the bearing but still OK. Depending on what conversion you are referring to, if you go 911 front strut, then you will want to replace your master cylinder to a 19mm to match the 911 caliper. If drilled front rotors, then that's straightforward in the front, no master swap needed as you keep your current fr calipers.

Tough decision, Good luck
And if you decide to do the conversion, we will absolutely want to see pictures.

Posted by: abes914 Jan 13 2018, 10:32 AM

your car is gorgeous! 4 lug Fuchs looks just right on yours.
I love my car lowered a bit with sportier tires.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 13 2018, 10:42 AM

I think you are correct about Eric’s kit being the way to go. It would be easy to switch back. That being said, I can’t think of a nicer looking stock four.

Posted by: KELTY360 Jan 13 2018, 10:58 AM

I've never really understood the five bolt conversion on a narrow body car. What is the gain? To me, it just says "look at me, I'm a real Porsche". A silver '74 2.0 is right in the sweet spot of 914 desirability and your four lug Fuchs look spectacular....although IMHO four lug Mahles look even better.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 13 2018, 11:18 AM

I really love the deep sixes, but on your car, which is just stunning, I would have to keep it original. Replace the tires and enjoy.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 13 2018, 11:20 AM

Besides time and money, easy to go back to original.

To me a 5 lug conversion is something that I could have imagined dealerships offering as a service/upgrade since it could be done with all factory parts.

For personal use I think the redrilled /4 hubs are okay and that is what my current '73 came with. If for a vehicle that you planned on selling in the future a proper 5 lug conversion would have more value to me and I think others as well. (vented rotors, ability for even more upgrades)

I think your car looks great with the 4 lug Fuchs. That being said I think it would look good with 5 lugs Fuchs as well.

Why only "good"? Chances are the 5 lugs will be your typical silver with black background, right now the 4 lugs have a more subtle contrast which is visually appealing to me.

Posted by: JOEPROPER Jan 13 2018, 11:41 AM

Your car would look great with deep six' (more black) , but keep the original parts if you ever want to go back to original. I'm sure you'll get a lot of pressure from here to sell your 2.0L fuchs ( they look great) but I'd hang onto them.

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 13 2018, 12:37 PM

Jeff, your car looks awesome as-is, but in my opinion, deep sixes or even flat sixes would look glorious on your car. I doubt you would ever go back to four lug when you see it for the first time, but you'd probably want to keep that Fuchs set with the car.

Posted by: mihai914 Jan 13 2018, 12:53 PM

I saw this car in person last year at Hershey and it looked very nice:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=303730&hl=Euromeister

I understand the feeling of not wanting to mess with a nice car given they have gained so much value in the last years but it also comes down to you enjoying owning it and modifying it if that's what you like.

The conversion is bolt on if you go with all the correct parts which I'm sure Eric can give great advice on the matter.

One question , would you like to upgrade the brakes on the car? That could make your choice easier...

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 13 2018, 12:53 PM

Jeff,

I'm sure that you can guess that my opinion on a beautiful original 73-74 2L like yours will be to keep it stock & period correct.

Another reason to keep with the stock-ish sizes that nobody is mentioning here, is "Ghost Mileage" - wherein the odometer error of +/-10% will significantly devalue an original 2L like yours over time driving it, & showing more mileage than actual.

Member Todd on here who has restored several low original mile 73-74 2L learned that lesson the hard way, when he lost some sale price upon his refurbishment/clean-up of the Bahia Red 73 2L IIRC due to the 195/65HR15s that he used on it for a time driving it.

185/70R15 or 185/75R15 are the closest diameter to the OE 165HR15 (165/80R15) size that were original 73-76 2Ls, & so only have a tiny error.

Use this tire size calculator to see the errors for various sizes yourself:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc?tires=165-80r15-195-65r15

Despite the seeming flood of big tire boyz on here who think that 914 tires have to be big, low profile, fatties with modern treads - it is NOT the only nor best way to go for just new tires. Also, the current repops of Michelins, Pirellis, etc. are made with the modern rubber compounds anyway, and the classic tire tread patterns are in fact pretty effective on our older & lighter cars.

You'll actually get more "Loos" with a truly stock & period correct 914, from what I've seen at the 100+ PCA Concours & other car shows at which I've judged over the past decade, as well as around town. It's a historical & vintage/classic car thing.

There are also the Vredestien 185/70HR15 tires as an option at half the price of the Pirelli & XWX options:

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/185-70R15_c78.htm

But even with the most expensive Michelin XWXs on 5 wheels, I'm pretty sure that will be far more cost effective than the 5-lug parts, wheels & tires - & the 185/70VR15 is infinitesimally less tread on pavement than the 195/65R15 options.

There are also several OE size 165R15 (/80 in HR or VR) options if you want pure stock, & don't want to lose mpg with the wider 185s:

http://www.lucasclassictires.com/165R15_c70.htm

Coker & Universal tire stores also have classic/vintage tire options, but Lucas Tire is local to me in Long Beach CA, & they can get any tire from their UK affillieate Longstone Tyre - so I'm showing you them>

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/165x15.html

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/185x15.html

If you're looking for better performance, then go to 185/70R15 - if not but want the OE look & size of 165R15 (165/80R15) - all in the H, T or V speed ratings.

Sometimes it's just best & nicer looking to have & show-off a classic car as it was back in the day, without all of the resto-mod & hot-rodding tricks of today!
I'm sure that your avatar buddy Steve would agree!

You may also want to contact the guy with the Leistritz muffler question post in the Garage Forums.

Cheers!
Tom
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Posted by: napasteve Jan 13 2018, 01:09 PM

I waffled on this decision for a while too but ultimately I just love the look of the 5-lug Fuchs on our cars. Not a cheap change though; Wheels, refinishing wheels, tires, conversion parts and getting McMark/Tim to do the conversion came to slightly north of 5K. But I love the look....

Before


After

Posted by: JamesM Jan 13 2018, 01:25 PM

I would not change a thing about that car!

You didnt mention what your motivation for wanting to change is (performance, appearance, something else?) but if it were me I would absolutely stay 4-bolt either way.

I think appearance wise you already have it nailed just the way it is. If you want a performance bump Vredestein Sprint Classics are supposed to be a pretty aggressive compound in an old school 165HR15 or 185HR15 package/tread pattern. If it were me I would go with the 165s as that is the stock spec though you would probably be fine with 185s as well. I would NOT go 195 or larger on the stock Fuchs as years of autocrossing and tire experimentation has taught me that as soon as tread width exceeds rim width you are adversely affecting the handling.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Vredestein&tireModel=Sprint+Classic&partnum=6HR5SC&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes


If your goal is best possible handling VTO makes a 4-bolt 16X7 ET35 rim that fits a stock body. Running the wide rim with the low tire sidewall and an aggressive 205/16" tire makes a huge difference over anything you can do on the Fuchs. Keeps it 4 bolt so you can swap on the VTOs when you want to drive like a crazy person but still put the stock Fuchs back on when you feel like being pretty.

http://www.vtowheels.com/Classic-8-Wheel-16-x-7-Silver-With-Machined-Lip-4-x-130mm-35mm_p_395.html


Your car, your decision, but i say there is nothing wrong with the fact that it isnt six so why convert to 5 lug and pretend?

Posted by: type2man Jan 13 2018, 01:38 PM

CIP1 has wheel adapters for $120 shipped. The fitement is tight in the rear unless you are at stock height with skinny tires, plus the adapters make the wheels stick out a litle to give it a more aggressive stance. I know most people hate wheel adapters. Mine is lowered on adapters and I have 195/50 front and 195/55 rears on real 15x6 alloys.

Posted by: Coondog Jan 13 2018, 02:15 PM

Ran my 1.8 for a year with my 5 lug conversion, with my new found stopping power I decided to have a 3.2 installed so I could justify the 5 lug...

You will do the same, you just don’t know it yet.....

Posted by: thelogo Jan 13 2018, 04:10 PM

4 lug all the way

If its not broken dont fix it

And i would assume 4 lug wheels have a lower weight
Which is more desirable to me fwiw

Posted by: cal44 Jan 13 2018, 05:53 PM

I get it..........not much better looking than the windmill Fuchs. But I'm also diggin' your 914 Fuchs.
I notice no one seems to mention Vredestein Sprint Classics.

I been using them for many years on 356's and 914's. Great looking tire.

https://www.cokertire.com/vredestein-sprint-classic-narrow-tread.html

Posted by: mepstein Jan 13 2018, 06:13 PM

Easy fix


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Posted by: sdearman Jan 13 2018, 07:49 PM

First to the OP, you car looks great the way it is! I am struggling with the same decision but if I can find 4 lug Fuchs would copy look you have..if not looking at 5 lug....Type2man, did you have a part number for the CPI spacers? Didnt see any when I looked....given they move the wheels outward what offset do you have on your rims?

Posted by: Jamie Jan 13 2018, 07:55 PM

Keep it stock! I've been running Michelin Pilot Exalto 205-65-15's for several years on my original 5.5" steelie rims with excellent results. Keep the air pressure up to spec and I've done "spirited driving" many times, no problem rolling the beads on the rims. They are oversized diameter from original 165-15's by .04%, not a significant difference. My 73 914 already had original rolled edges on the wheel wells both front and rear, but the front does rub a bit inside the well at full lock, not a problem in normal driving.I have also lowered the front a bit, just an attitude adjustment!

Posted by: Larmo63 Jan 13 2018, 07:57 PM

This cost a lot of money. There is more than meets the eye, rest assured. Suspension, brakes, goodies, and ego.



Five lug Fuchs BELONG on 914 Porsches.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 13 2018, 07:58 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Jan 13 2018, 05:57 PM)

This cost a lot of money. There is more than meets the eye, rest assured. Suspension, brakes, goodies, and ego.



Five lug Fuchs BELONG on 914 Porsches.

Posted by: clapeza Jan 13 2018, 08:51 PM

Easy solution:

Keep the 4-lugs on that beautiful '74.

Buy another teener that's not as quite as nice or desirable that someone else has put some ugly-ass non-factory wheels on, and put the 5-lugs on THAT car! Plus, that'll give you another project to work on, while still being able to enjoy a fully running 914!

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Jan 14 2018, 08:35 AM

The 914 2.0 Fuchs wheel is perfect for your car, so my .02 is don't change.

I love the 5 lug Fuchs, but the 2.0 Fuchs were only fitted to a 914.

Posted by: Cal Jan 14 2018, 09:03 AM

Thanks for all the feedback and comments. After reading your posts and thinking about it more, I'm afraid if I convert this car to 5-lug it will start a very fast (and expensive) path down the rabbit hole with additional upgrades.....brakes, engine, flares, etc. I've been there and done that before. It probably makes sense to keep this car stock and just purchase a project car to take care of my modification / hotrod itch. For now, I'll just replace the tires with the more aggressive XWW's or Pirelli CN36 185/70/15 and install a SCART exhaust for a better sound.

Posted by: Tdskip Jan 14 2018, 09:26 AM

One more vote for as-is!

Posted by: r_towle Jan 14 2018, 09:50 AM

Leave the wheels, invest in getting rid of the bumper tits!

Posted by: mepstein Jan 14 2018, 10:00 AM

QUOTE(Cal @ Jan 14 2018, 10:03 AM)

Posted by: mepstein Jan 14 2018, 10:00 AM

QUOTE(Cal @ Jan 14 2018, 10:03 AM)

Posted by: r_towle Jan 14 2018, 10:03 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Jan 14 2018, 11:00 AM)

QUOTE(Cal @ Jan 14 2018, 10:03 AM)

Thanks for all the feedback and comments. After reading your posts and thinking about it more, I'm afraid if I convert this car to 5-lug it will start a very fast (and expensive) path down the rabbit hole with additional upgrades.....brakes, engine, flares, etc. I've been there and done that before. It probably makes sense to keep this car stock and just purchase a project car to take care of my modification / hotrod itch. For now, I'll just replace the tires with the more aggressive XWW's or Pirelli CN36 185/70/15 and install a SCART exhaust for a better sound.

If you have the room and the means, get a 2nd car to play.