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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ questions on 5 point harness install
Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 09:57 AM
Going to install my five piont belts this week, this a street & AX car. I have two questions:
1) where should the hole be place in the floor for the eye bolt to secure the strap that goes through the bottom of the seat?
2) I plan to back this with a big ass washer and then double nut the bolt. Is this enough?
Posted by: ! May 31 2005, 09:59 AM
Do you have a cage, harness bar or a race seat?
Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 10:09 AM
No cage or harness bar. I have the Lemans seat.
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Posted by: J P Stein May 31 2005, 10:11 AM
I just did this a couple weeks ago.
I used a long bolt thru the channel section below the seat,(bolt parallel to the floor) for the nut crusher attach point.
This puts the strap endmountthingy verticle which, to me, is the proper attitude.
Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 10:11 AM
going to install like this picture of trekkor but with the 5th belt added.
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Posted by: ! May 31 2005, 10:21 AM
Depending on the sanctioning body that you run with...they require that the ends be mounted to the floor. A guide bar is a must have in that case.
Posted by: d914 May 31 2005, 10:31 AM
in the old days, i the shoulder straps mounted to the fire wall and used the snap in type with a scca , about 4in, square plate on the outside. for the floor sub belt used the large round washer type and again snap in ends.
Posted by: groot May 31 2005, 12:31 PM
You'll be fine with a thick fender washer. That's what I use.
Posted by: Aaron Cox May 31 2005, 12:39 PM
i have the exact same harnesses as trekkor...
going to use eye bolts for the shoulders and sub belts, and figure a way to tie in the laps 
Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 01:21 PM
I sent Dan (xitspd) a PM also but I will ask this question here. The eye bolts sent with hardware kit are a little short to go thru the firewall and to have enough thread for washers & nuts.
I went to a few hardware stores during lunch today but they did not have the same style eyebolts that was supplied with the hardware kit. The eyebolt looks like the one pictured below except it looks polished?
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Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 01:27 PM
Well never mind if I would have done just little research before I posted about the eyebolt I would have found I can get them from Racer Wholesale 
Posted by: Aaron Cox May 31 2005, 01:31 PM
are they metric?
ioportracing has the best prices on harness hardware ive seen
Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 01:39 PM
I would say yes to mertic. The thread looks to be about 20 mm long. What would be a good lenght for the fire wall and floor? 50MM?
Edit 50mm is approx 1 -7/8" long, I would think you would need longer than that for the fire wall? If I mount the nut crusher strap like JP said he did then the threaded part of the bolt should be approx 5 inches long?
Posted by: Aaron Cox May 31 2005, 01:58 PM
the firewall is like 1/4 thick or a lot les....
why would you need 2 inches of thread...
for me the eyebolt would go through, backpad, big ass washer, firewall, big ass washer, nut.
20mm of shank should be good.
i need to figure out how to do my laps.... they have spring clips and need eyebolts to install
Posted by: Joseph Mills May 31 2005, 02:18 PM
| QUOTE (itsa914 @ May 31 2005, 01:39 PM) |
| Edit 50mm is approx 1 -7/8" long, I would think you would need longer than that for the fire wall? If I mount the nut crusher strap like JP said he did then the threaded part of the bolt should be approx 5 inches long? |
Garold,
I used 2" long bolts for the firewall and they are more than long enough (see photo). However, I have removed the firewall pad behind the leather cover in the cockpit side of the firewall, and have removed the firewall pad in the engine bay. With that additional padding, I think 2" long bolts should still get you there.
I mounted my fifth belt thru the channel brace as JP did. I used a 5" bolt for that.
My lap belts simply attached to the existing lap belts (which I left in) anchors.
Here are a few pics for ya.
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Posted by: Joseph Mills May 31 2005, 02:19 PM
..
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Posted by: ArtechnikA May 31 2005, 02:22 PM
| QUOTE (itsa914 @ May 31 2005, 03:39 PM) |
| I would say yes to mertic. |
i wouldn't.
almost NONE of this stuff is metric.
even the bolts that fasten your belts to the car are NOT metric; they are 7/16" ... (7/16"-20 i think - might be -24...)
Posted by: Joseph Mills May 31 2005, 02:23 PM
Last image
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Posted by: itsa914 May 31 2005, 02:53 PM
| QUOTE (joseph222 @ May 31 2005, 12:18 PM) | ||
Garold, I used 2" long bolts for the firewall and they are more than long enough (see photo). However, I have removed the firewall pad behind the leather cover in the cockpit side of the firewall, and have removed the firewall pad in the engine bay. With that additional padding, I think 2" long bolts should still get you there. I mounted my fifth belt thru the channel brace as JP did. I used a 5" bolt for that. My lap belts simply attached to the existing lap belts (which I left in) anchors. Here are a few pics for ya. |
OK, maybe then 50 mm will work. I plan to go thru backpad, sound pad behind the back pad,the fire wall (no sound pad on that side) and have a thick washer (or plate) then double nut it
Posted by: J P Stein May 31 2005, 04:04 PM
To attach the shoulder straps to the eye bolts, I used them master chain links.
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Posted by: J P Stein May 31 2005, 04:05 PM
Finished.
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Posted by: MW 914 May 31 2005, 08:23 PM
Great thread with great pics. I never realized that different snctioning bodies would have different rules on mounting a harness. Any insight on PCA versus SCCA for autoX? My car is stock and I just received some 5 point harnesses from XITSPD. Should I/can I use a harness bar?
Posted by: xitspd May 31 2005, 08:27 PM
| QUOTE (MW 914 @ May 31 2005, 06:23 PM) |
| Great thread with great pics. I never realized that different snctioning bodies would have different rules on mounting a harness. Any insight on PCA versus SCCA for autoX? My car is stock and I just received some 5 point harnesses from XITSPD. Should I/can I use a harness bar? |
Follow this for Snap Ends, Bolt-In Ends or Wrap-Arounds(eliminate step 2 for wrap-arounds).......
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Posted by: ArtechnikA May 31 2005, 08:29 PM
| QUOTE (MW 914 @ May 31 2005, 10:23 PM) |
| Any insight on PCA versus SCCA for autoX? |
SCCA uses a national rulebook (SOLO-II)
PCA uses a Regional or at most, Zone-wide rule book. PCA has ONE national AX a year (Parade driving event). check out your Region or Zone rulebook...
Posted by: xitspd May 31 2005, 08:41 PM
| QUOTE (xitspd @ May 31 2005, 06:27 PM) | ||
Follow this for Snap Ends, Bolt-In Ends or Wrap-Arounds(eliminate step 2 for wrap-arounds)....... |
Position and angle are important....
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Posted by: xitspd May 31 2005, 08:46 PM
| QUOTE (MW 914 @ May 31 2005, 06:23 PM) |
| Great thread with great pics. I never realized that different snctioning bodies would have different rules on mounting a harness. Any insight on PCA versus SCCA for autoX? My car is stock and I just received some 5 point harnesses from XITSPD. Should I/can I use a harness bar? |
Check out: www.porscheclub.com the POC. They are very serious about safety issues. Use the pull down menu and look at the GCR's.
Dan
Posted by: xitspd May 31 2005, 08:48 PM
| QUOTE (J P Stein @ May 31 2005, 02:05 PM) |
| Finished. |
Nice job JP.
Dan
Posted by: messix May 31 2005, 09:12 PM
the picture diagram that xsitspd posted is the best guide.
now do you know how to wear them? really..... adjustment and position of the harness is critical to your safety.
the lap belt is positioned and tightened first across your hip bones. then the crotch belt is snugged the mounting point should be a few inches behind the seat hole, allow for seat adjustment. then the shoulder belts are thightened, but do not allow the lap belt to be pulled above your hip bones. a sternum strap is also a very good idea too.
i had the bad luck to be part of the rescue of a circle track guy who had his belts all wrong... lap belts almost to his ribs and crotch strap mounted forward of the seat hole and shoulder belts mounted to low behind the seat.
his injuries... broken neck, boken collar bones thru the skin, broken sternum, internal ruptures of abdomenal organs and broken pelvis.
this was a stuck throttle on a 3/8 mile track in a car that was caged to the core support. speed at impacted by my eyes about 60mph.
wear a h.a.n.s. if you can afford one!
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