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Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 23 2018, 10:32 AM

It would appear that the early license plate light (914 631 601 00) is NLA. To purchase new it looks like URO is the only option. I did a search and found one negative view of the quality of these lights, but no positive comments either. Can anyone comment on their quality?

Also, Pelican, Stoddard, and Sierra Madre have them, with the latter having a slightly better price at the moment. Is there any preference for dealing with one of these vendors? I've bought from Pelican before, but not the others.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 23 2018, 11:19 AM

I thought 914rubber had them.

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 23 2018, 01:00 PM

URO in general across all car makers & models parts which they make are known for poor quality & QC problems. Some parts may be bad eggs, while others good - but the consensus seems to be lesser quality than OEM. Do a google search for URO to see wider comments on more cars.

If 914Rubber makes their own, then theirs are probably better than URO, but I have no experience, since I got mine from Porsche some time ago for my resto.

Pelican, Stoddard & SMC are all good vendors, so for like-kind items, pick the best price. However, ever since Performance Products/Automation was sold to Eklers - they have nobody there who knows diddly-squat about Porsches - let alone 914s, so I don't bother with them anymore since they even know how to resolve an incorrect part shipped, for the correct one (3x tired).

While any vendor can make a mistake - if one can't or won't correct their error in a reasonable time, then it's not worth the headaches.

You might try calling any of the following known 914 & Porsche Parts Stashers:
Rich Bontempi at HPH (High Performance House) in Redwood City CA,
George Hussey at Auto Atlanta,
Craig at CAMP914 in OR,
Brad Mayeur at 914LTD in IL,
AASE Sales in OH,

- to see if any of them have any original ones in their respective stashes, but expect to pay top dollar for NLA items.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 23 2018, 06:18 PM

Thanks very much guys for all of the excellent advice. I did a search on 914 rubber using the part number and nothing came up. I'll report back with how this turns out.

Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 23 2018, 07:53 PM

Much quicker to just call. They may not be using the Porsche part number.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 23 2018, 07:55 PM

He has the housing listed. Search lisence on his site. I don’t know if he has the other parts like Rob said, just call

Posted by: gms Jan 23 2018, 08:06 PM

Searching License might yield a better result

Posted by: mepstein Jan 23 2018, 08:58 PM

That too

Posted by: 1adam12 Jan 23 2018, 11:15 PM

I'm in the market as well for an early rear licence plate light. I'm only missing one so finding an NLA OEM version would be a score. I've looked at all of the companies that you've listed but only URO offered the complete light assembly for early model.

Posted by: burton73 Jan 23 2018, 11:21 PM

Is early 74 back?

Bob B

Posted by: raynekat Jan 23 2018, 11:46 PM

On TheSamba, there are a couple of used ones (Hella) for around $40 ea and a set of NOS (like new) Hella for $200.

I've purchased a set of the URO, and they look fine to me as far as quality goes.
I've haven't finished the car yet so have yet to "turn them on."
Unless you have a concours car, you'll probably be OK with them.
Consider where they reside as well....you'll never see them and if they function, then you're good to go.

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 24 2018, 01:44 AM

+1... unless one is going concours, these aftermarkets versions should be fine if they hook up the same and light up ok

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 11:01 AM

Hey guys,
I did make the boot, and the lenses and had sold them as a "repair kit". I think Hoyland may have been the one to soak the old metal in apple cider vinegar to clean up the old metal.

I'd be willing to give you the kit for the cost of the postage than make you buy URO.

Just PM me should be about $3 reg mail for most.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 24 2018, 11:04 AM

That's a very generous offer Mark. URO lights are already on their way. I'll let you all know how they look when they arrive. Mark, will PM you about some other stuff I'm going to need.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 24 2018, 11:16 AM

Had to interject here: We have over 500 perfect ones in stock that we had made before URO did them, I am sure that if URO had known they would not have duplicated them. b91463160100 They are 35.00 each for club members.

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 11:18 AM

Honestly George,
Do you really think they would have not made them?

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 24 2018, 11:54 AM

I really think that they would not of Mark, they try hard not to step on toes. I think that if you send them the list of parts you make they would steer clear of duplicating your parts..... too small a market and too many other parts that need to be made.

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 11:57 AM

Do you recall them actually posting on my GB thread? Not buying it. In fact I would not be surprised they don't start making many of the things you do after they have a larger market share. It's only a matter of time and they have shown their true colors.

You can play scorpion / frog, but I'll stay out of that.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2018, 11:59 AM

A rep from one of the largest part distibutors in the US told me that uro specifically remakes parts already on the market. They just use china manufacturing to have them made cheaper. They use reproductions to model their parts, a copy of a copy, so thats why parts are often i'll fitting and cheap.

Mark - If you send them a list of what you make, they will duplicate every part. That is their business model.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 24 2018, 01:38 PM

There are certainly many parts out there that make one suffer when installing. We have even suffered at our own hand, when in desperation had to make some parts from silicone molds to have something to install, for example on Chip Ganassi's 914-6 that we put back together, and many other restorations where used was just not available

At least China has made many more parts available for these older cars that we have never had before. Just have to watch what you are buying. Years ago when the parts were plentiful, there was basically only one or two brands, both made in Germany, that one could trust to be top quality. We actually listed parts in our 914 catalog just by part number not by brand. THESE days, it is important to list the part by brand so you know what you are buying.

We are actually happy that URO has taken it upon themselves to make so many parts for so many different cars, and I am sure that the older Cayenne owners are ecstatic at the cheap prices of the parts

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2018, 01:49 PM

Our shop stopped using URO parts because of the lack of quality. They are just cheap crap. URO just means , uro going have to replace it when it breaks. Many times it’s broken out of the box or falls apart during assembly. They really are the definition of cheap Chinese junk.

Want to play Russian roulette, buy a URO master brake cylinder.

Posted by: UROpartsman Jan 24 2018, 01:50 PM

That is 100%, absolutely not true. It's illogical and completely absurd, actually. Who would believe such a thing?

Our parts are definitely based on the OEM part. We have a huge library of several thousand OEM parts in our facility, in fact we recently had to expand the library area. If any forum members are ever in the Simi Valley, CA area and want a tour to see for themselves, we'd be happy to show you around. You're welcome to look at as many OEM parts as you like until your hands give out; we've got some really rare (and expensive) parts.

We purchase the OEM part (or NOS if the item is dealer NLA, or used OE if NOS is no longer available), our engineers digitize the dimensions and analyze the materials with the FTIR (Fourier-transform infrared spectroscopy) and XRF (x-ray fluorescence) equipment in our in-house lab (that place with the famous periodic table), we provide the manufacturing specifications to the factory, and after a several rounds of manufacturing samples and testing the materials, physical dimensions and performance, an item eventually gets the green light and is released for sale.

To say that we intentionally copy new parts offered by a competitor is ridiculous. Our new product ideas and suggestions come from our extensive customer network of shops, or emails we receive from enthusiasts (and research confirms the item would be a good seller). It makes no sense to spend thousands of dollars (or tens of thousands) to intentionally develop a part that's already available from a competitor. You'd never recoup your tooling investment, unless it's a very simple item. Simply not worth it, but some love David vs Goliath marketing campaign drama.

Given there are only so many parts on a car, and that it's logical to put the highest demand items (or most common failures) at the top of the to-do list, it's inevitable that we'll develop a new item at the same time a competitor is developing it. Creating a new item can take years, so there's plenty of potential for overlapping projects that end up being released at roughly the same time. Those who don't understand product development might project a conspiracy there, but that's all it is.

You'd be surprised which brands sell the same parts that come in our boxes. We chuckle when these items get rave reviews on the forums, but the important thing is the end user's needs have been met.

Posted by: timothy_nd28 Jan 24 2018, 02:10 PM

I played the Russian roulette game with URO's master cylinder. I went cheap several years ago, and ordered one from JC whitney. It did work for just over a year, later to find it had puked brake fluid all over my new carpet. Don't go cheap, especially with anything brake related. Support your member venders.

Posted by: UROpartsman Jan 24 2018, 02:19 PM

Most issues with the master cylinder were related to the OE stand-off washers not being reused, which results in leakage at the feed line grommets. ATE ran into the same issue with people not re-using the washers, so they started providing the washers with their master cylinders. We're working on doing the same, and will provide them pre-installed in the near future.

It's an easy thing to miss during installation, and providing the washers will simplify the installation.

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 04:21 PM

Speaking from first-hand experience my problem with the part was an internal failure. Something that is not acceptable.
I personally find it ridiculous then a manufacturer would even be posting on these forums when they do not sell directly. As you will soon see there's not much margin on these parts. Good news is I don't have to make a profit. Let's see where that gets ya.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 24 2018, 05:01 PM

That's why we won't buy URO parts. They call it a washer issue when its not and just keep selling a defective part.

I noticed Pelican doesn't sell URO master cylinders anymore. Hmmm...

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 05:03 PM

Ill be sure to drop them a call

Posted by: Mike D. Jan 24 2018, 07:26 PM

George, you sold me this "new" part....




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Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 24 2018, 09:08 PM

To be fair to George, I did sell him some of mine, so I know the quality has improved. We don't sell him many parts, but figured I'd sell him some before URO knocked these off.

Posted by: Jett Jan 24 2018, 11:59 PM

After I bought a similar part from AA, you sent me an amazing prototype that looked perfect and is currently on my car. I’m confused?

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 25 2018, 12:15 AM

No,
I think I gave you one of the prototypes. It's already done and did a GB listed on the site. George did contact me to buy some so I do know he has a few.

Posted by: HaraldD Jan 25 2018, 12:29 AM

Hello,

here you get original ones....

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=321951&hl=

Harald

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 25 2018, 04:27 PM

Adam yours is going oit today. Who else?


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Posted by: gothspeed Jan 25 2018, 04:29 PM

Wow! Looks great!

Posted by: UROpartsman Jan 25 2018, 05:24 PM

Don't mind the dust specks, the camera sees all, lol.


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Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 25 2018, 06:15 PM

yup silicone mold after we ran our of our originals and before mark make his with metal tooling We put them on many of our cars they at lest worked.

Posted by: RoadGlue Jan 25 2018, 06:35 PM

George, been following you for years and it's the way you come across in your forum posts that make me only buy your parts when I have no other options.

Why not at least acknowledge that you could have done better, offer to replace the customer's part? The whole, "It works, so what?" attitude is not how you win over new customers. That part is so ugly you should have at the very least warned the customer that it was functional but heavily blemished. Anything else is just fraud. "It's new" implies that it looks like the OEM part.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 25 2018, 06:58 PM

you are right, would be happy to now that we have Marks part.

Mark is blessed that he can afford all of the tooling for these parts. I cannot and had to fill a need in our shop so had the stacked elbow made long ago from a silicone mold. It was all that was available and worked in a pinch as nothing else was available.
It is not like we are coming out with a great new product but rather trying to make something do until a better solution.
No harm intended, these silicone parts made one at a time cost a bundle each, and there is just not enough demand
Please do not beat me on this, I do the best I can trying to offer every part for the 914.
It is NEVER it worked so what, it is I have no part so what am I going to do. I treat these cars like I own every one of them and do not make parts to get rich but rather fill a need and do it the best I can and can afford. I love these cars and hate to not have a part for them.
We did have a pretty ugly picture of the part before we replaced it with the new part mark made, so each customer knew that they were getting something crude. We actually blew through each one to make sure that it was tightly sealed before sending
I can think of many parts that are needed for the 914 but just cannot afford to make the tooling for such limited quantity.
I continue to restore these cars but am so disappointed when I cannot get the part I need and or in the quality I want. As was in another discussion, even many of the new parts Porsche offers are complete crap now, but they say they are better than nothing the I call and complain. (try fitting some of their rear roll bar chrome, or like mark said their vent window seals. I am embarrassed installing some of that "stuff" on pristine cars.
When we did Brutus, we tried to install as many new factory parts as we could and wasted a lot of hours trying to make some of them work (mark you should be proud to know that we installed a lot of your parts on Brutus (no stacked elbow though)
I want everyone to know as has always been the case here for the last 40 years that all of our parts are fully guaranteed and if you do not like one or cannot use it or ordered by mistake or any other reason, you are welcome to return it for a refund or exchange.

NO ONE GETS STUCK WITH ANYTHING THEY BUY FROM AUTOMOBILE ATLANTA EVER

that is one of the benefits with dealing with a company that has been in business now this year for 40 years George Hussey

Posted by: raynekat Jan 25 2018, 09:57 PM

That URO part looks pretty dang nice to me.

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 26 2018, 02:34 PM

+1 .. those metal grommets look like they will distribute the pressure of the screw

Posted by: Movin6 Jan 26 2018, 02:42 PM

I've used URO parts on Saabs for years, (with good results) guess I shouldn't be surprised they are now in the 914 market. We should be happy to have a supplier.

I would also encourage a thread to 'support our own members' parts efforts. While I've had at least one 914 since 1978, I've been away from this forum awhile, it's not always clear where to get parts...

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 31 2018, 10:30 AM

As an update, I have just received the lights from URO. They asked if I'd give my unbiased impression of them. My car only had 1 license plate light and it was not the correct light for any 914 and it also was not mounted correctly. So, a rebuild option where one needs the innards would not have helped me. I currently have my wire harness out and will be asking questions about that very soon in a separate thread, but I was able to hook the lights up to the harness to assess how securely the connectors fit on the tangs and how secure the tangs are after removing the connectors. My original bumper top (which will be replaced with one from 914Rubber) is at the farm but I'll bring it back next time I'm there to mock up the lights in their installed position. I'd like my car to be as original as I can get it but, as it's not a 6, I'm perfectly happy with aftermarket parts, especially when in some cases the aftermarket parts are said to be even better in quality than the original equipment. I've never seen OE license plates to compare to these. But these look nice to my eye, the rubber feels to be good quality to me and fits well around the lens, the lens is clear and without imperfections. The tangs are exactly the right size for a good, snug fit with the original connectors and the tangs stayed well-secured after removal of the connectors. I put 12 volts to test the light and as you can see in the pic below the light is bright and looks nice lit up. Overall, for my purposes, these will do great!

In looking at PET I see that it calls for oval-head sheetmetal screws in size B 3,5 x 16. Even though Canada is metric, Home Depot etc. tend not to have much in metric screws or bolts. Can someone please enlighten me on how to read this screw size? I'm familiar with the bolt ("M") specs, but this B 3,5 x 16 is foreign to me. Also from PET it looks like rubber sleeves (999 702 011 50) go between the light and the bumper top. Is that correct? Hoping that comes in Mark's restoration kit...

Here are the pics.

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 31 2018, 10:35 AM

Sheet metals screws come in weird metric sizes for some reason. If you go to McMaster and type in P/N: 94997A325 you'll find M3.5x19 stainless sheet metal screws. Slightly longer than you need, but not too bad.

That part looks really nice from where I'm sitting. Thanks for posting pictures and impressions!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 31 2018, 12:55 PM

On the OEM units, the ground lug is connected internally to one of the screw holes. That means the light grounds not only through the ground wire, but also through one mounting screw by way of the bumper top's metal reinforcement and the bumper and chassis.

Which means if the wires are switched on one light, you pop a fuse every time you turn your headlights or parking lights on, and it takes hours of chasing the wiring down to figure out the problem.

.... Don't ask how I know this ....

--DD

Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 31 2018, 01:06 PM

Did URO give this to you or did you buy it?

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 31 2018, 01:19 PM

Sorry, thought that was clear. URO sent them to me at no cost asking that I give my unbiased impression. And that’s what I’ve happily given above. If I didn’t like them or think they’re worth the ~$35 price tag I’d say so. People more knowlwdgeable than me, who have actually worked with the OE lights, might have a different impression, can’t say. All I can say is I’m happy with them (so far).

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 31 2018, 01:31 PM

Thanks for posting the review. They look fine for what I need.

Now I want to know where you got that color schematic with component internals?

I bought one from prospero's garage but it does not show component internals.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 31 2018, 01:43 PM

That’s the 73 wiring diagram from Jeff Bowlsby’s website, printed in colour. But I find the 8.5x11 printout way too small to see, so I’m using my computer instead.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 31 2018, 01:48 PM

I put the file on a thumb drive and took it to the copy store to print it out on 11x17. It was readable then.

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 31 2018, 01:52 PM

Yeah, I was thinking that would be a good idea too.

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 31 2018, 01:58 PM

Awesome thank you! I have a 73' and in addition to the prospero's schematic I enlarged a black and white version with component internals. It has worked so far but still a pain to have to constantly go back and forth between schematics.

Great idea with the thumb drive. I may try for a 24" x 36" in color

Posted by: ConeDodger Jan 31 2018, 03:08 PM

Ahh. Maybe I'm a bit biased about science since research is my field, but when someone gives you something, even if you're Gandi, the bias is implied. In science they would never let that fly. EG: I pretty much hate Ford products and not without experience, my company cars have always been Ford. But if Ford wanted to give me a new F150 my unbiased opinion is not going to be unbiased. 'Oh! It's great! I hope they give me another next year!' That said, it looks like it works as advertised. GLWTR!

Posted by: doug_b_928 Jan 31 2018, 03:24 PM

Well then that makes two of us, since research is also my field. But I agree that I should have been more clear on that in my previous post and appreciate you pointing it out. Like I said, if I felt that they would not be worth the price to me for my purposes, I'd say so. Who knows, maybe they'll fall apart on me someday, and I'll report that too if it happens.

Posted by: carl k Jan 31 2018, 04:32 PM

I bought a pair of the URO license plate lights last year. I installed them last month on my 914, when I put on a better used rubber bumper top. The lights fit and worked without requiring any modifications. As Doug said, the wiring fit well on the spade connectors.

I actually had a pair of NOS Hella lights, but the URO ones were of sufficient quality that I couldn't justify putting the NOS ones on my daily driver.

Carl