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Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 30 2018, 02:59 AM

I acquired a pretty stock 1.7 that had been retrofitted with a 911 combo gauge. It looks well done. I did procure a correct gauge to replace it but now I'm thinking leave it.

What would you do?

I like the idea or originality too.
Pics to follow.

Posted by: sithot Jan 30 2018, 04:33 AM

Temperature an Pressure gauge only or a custom affair with a Fuel level too?
I like these gauges as they’re easy to watch.

http://www.nhspeedometer.com/service-restorations-914

Posted by: 914Sixer Jan 30 2018, 08:09 AM

Leave it, you can never have too much information. It took some extra thought and skill to get the wring done.

Posted by: GregAmy Jan 30 2018, 08:13 AM

^^^...and I'm the opposite. I think you can have too much information to the point it's distracting. I don't care what the value is unless it's out of spec, so I love me some basic gauges and idiot lights. I removed the center console and its gauges and use the basic combo with oil temp and lights.

Posted by: sithot Jan 30 2018, 08:27 AM

Posted by: BENBRO02 Jan 30 2018, 08:36 AM

IMO an oil pressure guage is almost worthless (they do look cool though). I would rather have a buzzer that alerts me immediately about a problem. My VW Jetta had a buzzer that would come on when taking cloverleafs at 55 mph.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 30 2018, 09:10 AM

I like more information than less. I would leave it.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 30 2018, 09:10 AM

dbl post- sorry

Posted by: RickS Jan 30 2018, 10:12 AM

I am in the “information is power” camp, especially with an air/oil cooled car. Just a week ago my alternator light came on and saw that my Voltage gauge was sitting firmly at 12 rather than the usual 14.5. Also when I first added my 6 I could watch the oil temp to make sure the cooler was operating correctly and at high speeds I wasn’t hitting above 210.

Is it distracting? I don’t find the full gauge compliment in my 911 distracting with the .5 sec it takes to check things out compared to the repair costs associated with a rebuild. Same goes for the teener.

Posted by: GregAmy Jan 30 2018, 10:38 AM

I don't mean to be combative in any way, but these are the types of things I think a lot about all the time, when designing instrumentation and gauging on my race cars and an experimental airplane builds. And I like the debate on the topic.

Your statement below caught my eye:

So what you're saying is that you recognized a charging system failure not by the gauge that told you it was at 12V, but by an idiot light that caught your eye. And then you looked over at the gauge, which told you the same exact information (charge bad). And that's my point.

And then you wrote this:

...implying that you were using your oil temp gauge as a binary good/bad system: below 210 is good; above 210 is bad.

Would not a light at 210 degrees do the same thing?

There is merit to watching and evaluating trends, but the human brain doesn't really work well as a data acquisition device. When otherwise occupied we're much better with binary good/bad situations. We even use our speedos are binary devices: 70 good, 75 bad. Less than 70 really, really bad, pick it up!!

Automobile manufacturers know this. If your car has a water temp gauge (most do) you'll notice that it's always solidly vertical. Have you ever watched it get there? It's pretty much a binary condition: as soon as the water temp rises to the correct desired range the needle will work quickly to that TDC level.

VW figured this out in the 80s with the Rabbit GTI. They put in aux gauges and started getting complaints from owners that the gauge fluxuated left and right as they were driving around. The Germans were perplexed; after all, no engine coolant or oil reaches a set temperature and stays there constantly, why are people complaining? But the complaints persisted to the point where VW adjusted the electronics in the gauge to where it stayed solidly vertical within the desired range, in effect turning the gauge into an idiot light. And the water temp gauge on my 2011 GTI stays solid vertical all day, whether I'm driving in snow like today, or cruising across the desert last year.

You like gauges? Get 'em, enjoy 'em. But I strongly disagree that they're necessary for safe operation of any equipment. If you want data acq, get data acq (it's actually quite affordable now). Me, I'll pay attention to the driving and watch for attention-grabbing lights to tell me when something's wrong... - GA

Posted by: gandalf_025 Jan 30 2018, 11:21 AM

Mark, if it is the 4 way gauge,
I’d be interested in talking to you about
buying it from you if you decide to replace it...

Posted by: tomeric914 Jan 30 2018, 11:40 AM

The idiot light tells you something is wrong, the gauge gives an indication of how bad it is or isn't.

Gauges aren't constantly scanned, but viewed when needed.

Most want the simplicity of installing a gauge and being able to read it (plug and play). That likely comes down to their abilities, want for a specific look, or what they are used to.

I agree that there is some great and inexpensive data acquisition tech out there, but I have no desire to deal with the setup and fabrication for any of my vehicles.

Posted by: Steve Jan 30 2018, 12:00 PM

I like mine, it looks more stock than others. Mine is the same as this one, but with out the silver dot.

Posted by: timothy_nd28 Jan 30 2018, 12:45 PM

At night, the stock combo gauge only has a small window of light emitting thru the fuel gauge. It looks inconsistent compared to the tach and speedo gauges. Having dual gauges in the combo gauge looks better in the standpoint that light is evenly distributed thru both gauge openings. It's really a preference thing.

Posted by: jor Jan 30 2018, 12:52 PM

Setting aside the informational value of the gauges, I like mine because I think it looks good and it's fun to see the oil pressure needle moving as get on and off the throttle. Okay, that might not add value to this conversation, but it's true.

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 30 2018, 12:57 PM

+1 ... I tend to prefer simplicity as well. I was going to add head temp gauges per bank and EGT gauges per cylinder for A/F tuning/monitoring. But for now I'm going to get everything assembled and harness working in OE configuration first. Then maybe add fun stuff as needed ..

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jan 30 2018, 01:26 PM

I find a pressure gauge distracting. I'm always thinking "is that a good number?" Luckily only my Chevys have them. For everything else I figure I either have pressure or I don't and a lite.

For a bone stock 914 just the temp gauge is sufficient.

The only time I can think of that a gauge would have been helpful is on my daily years back. Had a crank seal oil leak, thus a bit low sometimes, and coming down an overpass under sporty braking I think the oil level dropped too low, as I found wear on the cam bearings. Seeing a pressure drop might have changed that outcome.

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 30 2018, 01:56 PM

My set up


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 30 2018, 03:39 PM

Looks very 911 ...

Posted by: sithot Jan 30 2018, 06:49 PM

Even the dual gauge 911 Temp/Pressure gauge has an idiot oil pressure light.

I've seen worn out Porsche cars with flickering lights at or near idle when hot.

Posted by: bbrock Jan 30 2018, 07:03 PM

It's just personal opinion, but I'd be inclined to go back to original only to get the fuel gauge back up in the cluster where I prefer. The location of the fuel gauge in the dash also looks too crowded for my taste. If I had a gauge like in post #13, I'd swap that in for my original combo gauge in a heartbeat.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2018, 07:09 PM

combo gauge is cool.

Posted by: pete000 Jan 30 2018, 11:43 PM

I like the 911 combo and the remote mounted fuel gauge AKA 914-6 GT

Posted by: Mikey914 Jan 31 2018, 01:27 AM

It kind of grows on ya.
I do have a replacement, but it’s a bunch of work to swap back. I can always do it later.

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 31 2018, 05:25 AM

Very nice! The silver dot makes it 'look' right. who makes this one? Where to buy?

Posted by: deemsriddle Jan 31 2018, 07:33 AM

I am at the point I my rebuild that it is gage time. I would like either a 3 or 4 gage unit. Where do I buy one. Pleas help an old man. Thanks. Deems

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jan 31 2018, 10:03 AM

Check with Palo Alto Speedometer, Palo Alto, California. Hartmut did my gauges and I love the way they came out. Not inexpensive, but top quality.

Posted by: mepstein Jan 31 2018, 10:04 AM

Too much?


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Posted by: gothspeed Jan 31 2018, 02:31 PM

one needs a road map to find one's way around that space ..

Posted by: John Jan 31 2018, 04:59 PM

The reason I never liked the 911 combo gauge only was because way back in the day, the separate fuel gauges were no where near accurate and lacked the idiot light for low fuel. We had one when we first put together the track car back in the 80's.

Before I started doing my version of the triple gauge kits, I got rid of the speedometer (not needed for the track), and put in a stock 914 fuel gauge. I went so far as to re-purpose the brake warning light at the top of that gauge as a low fuel warning. (The track car is still set up that way)





I understand some folks not liking the pressure gauge, but that is how most 911's were so I wanted to keep that in my 914-6 conversions.

One of my street 914's is using one of my triple gauges, but I don't care for all the numbers, so I'm using the stock 911 temp gauge, and a pressure gauge re-labeled in BARs like the later air cooled 911's {up to 1989}.

Posted by: type47fan Feb 1 2018, 03:48 PM

This is my setup . . . .


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Posted by: Steve Feb 1 2018, 07:37 PM

John made mine. He posted on this thread. I don’t know if he is still doing it.
He did an amazing job on mine, but turnaround was slow since he has a day job. Well worth the wait....

Posted by: Mikey914 Feb 1 2018, 07:58 PM

I do like Johns version. But given the condition of the vehicle, i was thinking stock was where i wanted to go. Its easier to do nothing, therefore, for now at least. Im leaving it.
The car also has a pretty trick offset oil cooler ill post up more on when cary has it on the rack.

Posted by: Racer Feb 1 2018, 08:03 PM

Stock. Combos are for racers or posers

Posted by: r_towle Feb 1 2018, 08:23 PM

Nice board name...

Posted by: RickS Feb 1 2018, 10:17 PM

Had to update my signature to reflect my new esteemed poser status. Thanks Racer for the reminder.

Greg, I appreciate your thoughtful analysis on human decision making. In is interesting to note that about 45% of our population interacts with the world and process data in a purely black or white, on or off, good or bad manner. The other 40% see the world in a non-binary manner, where multiple factors from multiple sources are analyzed, of course colored by personal bias, prior to making a decision. Call this many shades of gray. The remainder do not neatly fall into either camp and may fall into, drug abuses, mental defectives or mentally ill.

Until the advent of digitally based dashboards, where display can be selected, automakers found it far more cost effective to use Idiot Lights (binary warning) than using full gauge clusters with all their complexity. 914s being the bargain basement entry into VW-Porsche received, as you know, fewer gauges with more idiot lights than its higher priced 911 brethren. It’s a cost thing. There is no right answer for everyone

When I see my alternator light on, I can cross reference with the analog readout to see if I am in deep do do, if the volts are reading <12 Volts and going down fast, rather than making a best case guess how much farther I can drive. When the light came on, I continued to drive the car for short distances for two weeks (battery on charger during evenings) while I closely monitored if I had <12V. It works for me but recognize it doesn’t work for everyone. As for oil temps, if I am running at 240* I know how far hot I am running and to back off, compared to 280* when I know I need to shut it down rather than just back off.

We could take your binary argument to the extreme and say, people don’t need all the information provided by a fuel gauge, just a light to come on to tell you have some finite range remaining. No light, no issue.

In grad school I enjoyed taking classes inhuman factors engineering and ergonomics as well as human behavioral analysis so these are favorite subject areas as you can unfortunately tell.

Posted by: gothspeed Feb 1 2018, 10:39 PM

I would like to find a custom 'combo' gauge with fuel on bottom and oil pressure on top. Then the idiot lights like the -6

Posted by: sithot Feb 4 2018, 10:15 AM

Here is a friend's combo gauge in his lightly modified 356B.

Posted by: 98101 Feb 5 2018, 01:48 AM

This is probably true.

For some reason my car came with the gauges you'd expect, plus oil temp, plus cylinder #3 head temp, plus oil pressure, plus fuel pressure, plus manifold vacuum, plus voltage meter, plus ammeter, plus a wind up clock with a timer built in. In a modern car I guess a computer would watch all things things and alert me to any problems but this is my toy and it's fun pretending I'm piloting a WWII bomber. I guess this puts me in the poseur category. If I fire up the 123\Tune app I can also see spark advance and distributor temperature. I don't know why the 123 distributor has a temperature sensor since they didn't provide a way to incorporate it into spark advance (yet).

The oil pressure gauge may actually be practical, as it reminds me not to rev the new engine when it's cold. The oil temp gauge is helping me realize how long it's taking to get to operating temperature -- why I'm getting milky white condensation inside the oil filler lid. For cylinder head temperature, I might be better off with a klaxon. I do wish the brake warning light was properly hooked up to my parking brake.

TANGENT:
In 1985 I had a 1975 915 2.0 with the stupid progressive Weber set up and a 009. In the Arizona heat, the oil pressure light flickered at idle -- no gauge in that car. I was a dumb kid and there was no 914World. The mechanic said my bearings must be worn out, needed a rebuild... very expensive for a kid starting his career. During the rebuild, they told me there was a problem with my 2.0 heads, offered replacement heads (which weren't the Porsche ones of course). When the engine was back in the car, the oil pressure light flickered just as it had before.

Posted by: campbellcj Feb 5 2018, 08:46 AM

I have a 4-way combo gauge and can attest to the statement(s) above that it's a bear to wire-up, but once done, I like it. Previously I had the small VDO gauges in the stock radio position - looked cool but for a track car you really need the info directly in front of you. Plus, the single quad gauge probably weighs less. I don't yet have a large, bright oil pressure idiot light but that's somewhere on my list.

Posted by: gothspeed Feb 5 2018, 09:10 AM

I can relate and agree, shady shops do exist and they suck.
When I was young I scored a 914 2.0 engine from the wrecking yard that I planned on rebuilding to replace my old 1.7. I took the engine to a vw rebuild shop 'one stop machine' and if I recall correctly, they were in paramount CA. They took the 2.0 engine in and said I needed new pistons and cam. I ordered the parts through them. I stopped by every week after work to see if the parts had arrived. The bald guy at the shop kept telling me the parts had not arrived, every week. After my patience had run out I went by to pick up my motor. That same guy pretended he didn't know what I was talking about. He then pointed to his sign saying 'they were not responsible for any parts left over 30 days'. When it was 'them' who were delaying the process. He then tried to give me some old bus parts (half a case and one cracked head). I left with nothing. As a youngster this was a rough lesson. This crook planned on stealing my engine from the get go.

Sorry this post has nothing to do with the thread topic. So I will add, I like stock and -6 stock combo gauges with pressure or temp on top