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Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 10:05 AM

The cable broke on our outdoor pressure washing lift, two months after a complete inspection of all of our lifts! One never knows, accidents happen. Car fortunately has minimal damage. Will post pictures of the lifting and repair later


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Posted by: JmuRiz Feb 16 2018, 10:11 AM

Rusty outdoor lift...not surprised

Posted by: Andyrew Feb 16 2018, 10:20 AM

Also thats going to be some decent damage..

Engine might need going through as well, Take spark plugs out of the DR side before you crank it, the oil in the cyls might bend the valves.

Posted by: Andyrew Feb 16 2018, 10:21 AM

Really glad no one got trapped under there... You should consider replacing your lifts and putting them all inside..

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Feb 16 2018, 10:24 AM

Looks like one side dropped down. When using properly, the car must be lowered some to park the lift on the stops. Was the car sitting on the stops properly?

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 10:26 AM

yes everything was good, the cable broke

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 10:28 AM

at least it makes it easier to pressure wash, the work must go on

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2018, 10:29 AM

Glad nobody was under the car!

Posted by: Amphicar770 Feb 16 2018, 10:31 AM

Yikes! Now I see why some people use under lift jackstands even with a lift.

Posted by: URY914 Feb 16 2018, 10:31 AM

Really makes me want to bring my car to you.

Posted by: Edward Blume Feb 16 2018, 10:34 AM

Let's have a caption contest:

"Here at 914 Headquarters we NEVER let anything slide..."

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2018, 10:34 AM

I’m pretty sure ours lock into place when stationary. Looks like a very old lift.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 10:38 AM

yes they lock but this happened while the car was going up, cable broke. Really ridiculous because the lift service was just here two months ago!

Accidents happen, we have not had one for 30 years at least. Luckily the car was not damaged too badly, a door and just a bit of fender and quarter damage, and the paint was not that nice anyway, so will be better than before the accident.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2018, 10:44 AM

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 16 2018, 10:51 AM

That picture is why people dont respect your mind set..
Everything is wrong,, the fact you have the $$ and have misppent ...cables are equallizers and why did the lock dog not engage..you can say nothing , because you know nothing......just another insurance claim kinda day...

Posted by: Lucky9146 Feb 16 2018, 11:07 AM

I for one am glad he shared the picture, he didn't have to. It is a very good reminder that shit happens no matter who you are. Glad no one was injured. Could-a, should-a, would-a. Just learn from it and be safe.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 11:44 AM

here is a before and after, accidents happen, just too bad it has to happen to classic Porsches This one was MUCH worse [attachmentid=639
456]


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Posted by: Mueller Feb 16 2018, 11:56 AM

dude, that is pretty harsh.

I bet if you reached out to any of the lift manufactures the sales of maintenance or wear items do not even come close to the numbers of lifts sold. Unless a government facility* or a company with a very stringent safety program I would say the majority of companies don't fix things until broken.

*we annually inspect all of our lifts and cranes by certified inspectors.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Feb 16 2018, 12:18 PM

More rust on that lift than on the last 914 I saw at a salvage yard. If I saw equipment like that with leaves and debris on the floor, I think I would look for another shop. Certainly if I needed something done on a vintage Porsche. Even a NARP. And why post a picture of that 356? Are you trying to say the 914 that fell on it's side isn't really that bad?

Posted by: mmichalik Feb 16 2018, 12:29 PM

Thanks for posting the pictures! It's a good reminder that it's an imperfect world we live in and things can and will go wrong. I for one will be checking my jacks and support system tonight, just to make sure nothing has slipped or moved.

It's a drag that it happened, that's for sure. Hurts to look at it all the way from San Diego.

Glad no one was in the way of it falling. I can't recall how many times I've stood close to the lift as it was going up. Gonna take a step back from now on, that's for sure.

Posted by: Racer Chris Feb 16 2018, 12:33 PM

A roller in my lift failed a few months ago and we nearly had a car fall as the lift was being lowered. The broken roller allowed one side of the lift to hang up on the safety lock strip inside the upright so only one side continued to come down.
Fortunately Ed noticed that he was starting to see the top of the car a little too soon and stopped.
That took a while to figure out how we could safely lower the car the rest of the way.
It also took me a while to figure out a 2 hour repair method which didn't require disassembly - which would have kept the lift out of service for more than 24 hours.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 12:44 PM

that was and still is our pressure washing lift, only, it is regularly inspected as we need to have it outside in an area where it can get be properly used and the water and material drained. The pegs catch the car on the way up, but was in-between pegs when the cable popped, just a fluke, but at least the car is not too badly hurt, and only dropped a few feet. I will post pictures soon of the lifting and the repair

Posted by: JRust Feb 16 2018, 12:54 PM

That looks bad & I would certainly be pissed if it was mine. Having said that the fact he is posting the picture of it. $hit does happen to us all. The distinction that this is their lift for pressure washing helps a bit as far as how it looks. Still I would spend some time every year keeping the paint up. I would not feel good about my car going up on that lift with that much rust on it. Even if it was serviced by someone else. It doesn't look like it is serviced just from the eye test. While the internals make the most difference. That pic just screams I am an old piece of crap that nobody has serviced in years. Not something I would want my customers to see. Let alone have their car on

Posted by: rgolia Feb 16 2018, 12:57 PM

Thanks for the post. The next time I raise or lower my car on my lift I will be an extra foot or two away from it after seeing this. Safety First as they say

Posted by: bretth Feb 16 2018, 01:11 PM

Oooo that sucks. Looks just like my car too only better looking paint. Glad no one was hurt.

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 16 2018, 01:35 PM

No Governments, no regs. A simple self respect and respect to to the item being put on a an old delapitated , piece if machinerry,,,, the headquarters certianly had $$$ for a new lift,, it's just bad mindset,,, at least it is His 914... And you live in CA. ??
Apparently there methods are self imposed, and not qualified,,, glad no ones hurt , and he has insurance...the answer for everything these days..

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 16 2018, 01:49 PM

One Question ?? Can anyone show me a picture of a more decapitated lift, at a current resto shop , in use....... even if its just a 914..
claiming to be its checked and good to goo...

Posted by: dcheek Feb 16 2018, 01:55 PM

I would find it hard to believe that the body is straight after a fall like that. The driver's door and long were dropped on the cable protection ramp. Kind of like breaking a tree branch on your knee.

Hmmmm, I wonder what the VIN number is?????

Dave

Posted by: rudedude Feb 16 2018, 02:05 PM

I’m for sure going to check my cables when I get home but wouldn’t it take a loss of hydraulic pressure to drop only one side and then wouldn’t both drop?

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 16 2018, 02:09 PM

research your lift model and how it functions...... the only answer

Posted by: jd74914 Feb 16 2018, 02:38 PM

I understand Chris's lift failure, but the AA one is strange if everything was actually functioning. I'm confused as to why the safety catches didn't engage. Being between engagement points should just mean it drops a little, not all of the way down. Seems like the dog that engages was rusted up and not springing too well...

Glad no one got hurt-that'd make for a really bad Friday.

Posted by: porschetub Feb 16 2018, 02:44 PM

Hell I would be talking to the lift inspection company...bunch of clowns.
Many cable lifts in my country have been condemned because of cables ,most owners choose to replace their lifts completely as the cables are so expensive for older ones,my brother was a hoist inspector for a long time,he was called out to the local Honda dealer and found a new Civic destroyed after a cable failure, the ratchet locks hadn't worked in that instance.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2018, 02:51 PM

we are moving to a bigger shop and just buying all new lifts. Our old ones are still very nice but it was easier to sell than move to the new location.

Posted by: gothspeed Feb 16 2018, 02:53 PM

Undetected corrosion is apparently the cause of this. Corrosion so bad, the cable or cable related component failed with a 2000 lb-ish car.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 03:01 PM

That is almost our situation too. We are now rebuilding the complete shop and the rest of the building and enlarging the shop, have a purchase order in for six new lifts, (the latest and the greatest) but cannot install until the new roof is done. THAT is one of the reasons I had all of these lifts inspected, and thought that we were ok for a few months until the new ones were ready to be installed.
We are very safe here and have never had an accident believe it or not!
Our new pressure washing area will be covered so that should eliminate most of the weather hitting that area.
These old lifts have a catch peg on only one side so of course the one side held.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 03:02 PM

The safety peg is only on one side of this old lift.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2018, 03:05 PM

We just use a big forklift to raise the car for steam pressure wash.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 03:51 PM

reminds me of another incident, anyone know which ship this is? (a test for you history buffs!!

Posted by: Mueller Feb 16 2018, 04:19 PM

It would seem that the responsible thing to do if getting new lifts is to cut up the old lifts to make sure they are not put back into service.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 04:26 PM

already promised to our scrap guy

Posted by: mepstein Feb 16 2018, 04:27 PM

Our used lifts are still very good. Its just expensive to take them down, transport and set them up. We get a deal on shipping and setup on the new ones so it's just easier to leave the old ones in place. Also lets us work on cars longer during the transition.

Posted by: malcolm2 Feb 16 2018, 04:29 PM

Do we need to know who bought them....

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Feb 16 2018, 04:45 PM

I don't remember the name of the ship but wasn't that one in Chicago?

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 16 2018, 04:57 PM

SS Normandie, 1942, burned and capsized at NYC pier.
Less damage than your Palma green '75

Posted by: worn Feb 16 2018, 05:52 PM

The teeth look like backup plan items. When going up are they not able to engage? Sorry to tilt the thread sideways

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 16 2018, 05:57 PM

good man, some think that it was sabotage. Many called it the most beautiful ocean liner ever built. Those French!

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 16 2018, 05:59 PM

I respect the Dr. for sharing that incident and pictures. I am in the middle of getting a lift installed in my home garage and it never hurts to remind everyone that lifts aren't bullet proof. Hopefully the damage to the 914 was minor.

Posted by: ejm Feb 16 2018, 07:52 PM

In my 3+ decades of working in dealerships I've seen around a dozen cars fall from lifts. Some were due to lift failure and others due to operator error. This is the first time I've seen a 914 fall from a lift. Thanks George JK really that sucks..

Posted by: Chip Feb 16 2018, 07:59 PM

"Wanting to thoroughly clean the underside of his car, Mel called a buddy to help him flip it over."

Posted by: aggiezig Mar 23 2018, 11:06 PM

Hey George, any update or pictures of the carnage? How bad is the car?

Posted by: GeorgeRud Mar 24 2018, 07:52 AM

Glad no one was hurt, and thanks for posting. It’s a great reminder that one always has to be aware of safety and thinking of what could happen if something fails. I’ve often though about fabricating some sort of bar to support my scissor lift in case the hydraulics fail. There is a ratcheting safety system on the lift, but it’s a cast piece from China, so I figure another backup would not be a bad idea. I’ve always kept a floor jack under my car when it was raised on jack stands as well.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Mar 24 2018, 09:19 AM

We purchased a door jamb and a door from parts heaven to match this pristine california car, a new sill from our inventory, and have pulled the car back into shape, will post some pictures monday. Pulled beautifully as 914s always do

The lift company said, "well we do not know what happened to our report, in it it said not to use the lift"


I knew what I wanted to say but as usual held my tongue.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Mar 24 2018, 09:22 AM

We do too George, always a backup. Real stupid that that lift purchased from the bow dealer ship did not have dual stopping pegs, would have been easy to install when the lift was made.
I sold the lift so I would never have to look at it again, along with another lift in anticipation of purchasing new rotary lifts, they call "the Porsche lifts" Men are working on the building today in anticipation of the new roof extension. We will have a pretty great place here when things are completed, and my completed dream of having a Jay Leno like garage in the back to really display some nice hardware!

Posted by: 76-914 Mar 24 2018, 09:43 AM

I'm lucky that I didn't have a catastrophe. The 1st 18 mo's that I owned my lift, I would leave the car lifted on it for days and even weeks at a time. One night while watching the News I saw a report on an Earthquake. It then dawned on me what could happen in that I live in SoCal. I now lower the car as soon as possible and definitely overnight. If the wheels are off I lower it to inches off the ground. Hindsight is 20/20 and Shit happens! What happened to George happens. I believe he showed "Due Diligence" by having his equipment inspected and the liability should be upon the company that did the inspection. JMHO.

Posted by: flyer86d Mar 24 2018, 09:43 AM

I replaced the cables twice on my two post lift in 10 years of daily use. On my Bend Pack, the cables do not do the lifting, hydraulic rams in each post do that. The cables merely balance the system so the arms go up and down evenly side to side. When a cable breaks, one side will go up or come down faster than the other. I never dropped a car off of the lift when this happened. I was able to carefully lower the car. I had new heavy duty cables made up by an outfit that makes cables for cranes. The cable always failed where it went around the lower pulley. I kept an eye on that after the first one failed and replaced them when they started to fray.

Charlie

Posted by: GeorgeRud Mar 24 2018, 09:46 AM

It seems it happens to others as well.

Posted by: sb914 Mar 24 2018, 10:25 AM

Isn't that car?

Posted by: rjames Mar 24 2018, 11:38 PM

Posted by: bulitt Mar 25 2018, 02:10 AM

Thankfully no one was injured!

Lift accidents happen more than you would think.

OSHA regs cover Inspections and Training-
Lifts must be inspected annually by a certified tech.
Operators need to have yearly training
Owners should keep a log.

Depending on what state you reside, lifts may be covered under state building codes.

The UK has taken the safe course in regards to 2 post lifts-
"It was agreed with representatives of the MVR industry, through the MVR Forum, that arm locking systems should be fitted to all these lifts. Therefore, any remaining 2-post lifts without arm locking should now have been taken out of use or scrapped." Sensible action.

And they have identified certain Chinese Models-
"Problems with the design, installation, use and maintenance of arm locking mechanisms continue to cause concern in newer machinery. Some new Chinese-manufactured 2-post lifts have been found where the locking mechanism has been poorly manufactured and failed to work from installation or within a short period of use. Further details are available in Sector Information Minute 03/2008/12" "Defective locking devices identified on modern 2-post lifts".

An employee injury could mean OSHA reports, inspectors, fines, lawsuits, and pain and suffering. Logbooks going back yrs. Warning and safety decals in place...etc...

Resources-
https://www.apta.com/mc/annual/previous/2014/LZpresentations/Learning%20Zone%20Presentations/Perlstein_Steve.pdf

UK -
http://http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/topics/fallofflifts.htm

Posted by: r_towle Mar 25 2018, 09:18 AM

Sorry that happened!
But more importantly, will you let me into the 356 garage next time I get down there?

Posted by: Andyrew Mar 25 2018, 01:31 PM

That it was!

Posted by: somd914 Mar 25 2018, 02:42 PM

The lift failure on the Elise was due to the ignorance of the shop and the ignorance of the owner to allow an unknowledgeable shop touch such a car. For a floor jack when inserting a jack stand, there is marked lift spot not far back from the door. However, a two post lift requires removing the engine cover pan to locate the proper aft jack spots. The result is not much different if you did the same on a 911 given their after weight distribution.

As for the 914 lift failure, sorry, I'd never put my car on that lift, or even leave it for service in a shop that looks so ill-maintained.

My lift would not fail in this manner due to a cable breakage or even a hydraulic ram failure. Lifts are inexpensive equipment in the big picture of a shop. Our fab techs spend more on their Snap On toolboxes than what a decent lift costs...

Yes, things happen, but from my experience more frequently from the lack of maintenance, lack of planning, lack of concern, lack of attention to detail, etc. Sorry to be harsh, but I don't see the point of this post with simply blaming it on the maintenance company.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 25 2018, 02:57 PM

An awful lot of George bashing on here which I am not sure is warranted. This is probably the best thread to remind us to be careful because of possible consequences.. I get very nervous working underneath cars and have been thinking about purchasing a 2 post lift for home and use a safety jack on both front and back of the car to ensure no one gets hurt.

Posted by: mepstein Mar 25 2018, 04:24 PM

All our 2 post lifts lock into place. You can hear each set of locks engage as the lift rises. We've had 2 minor earthquakes in the last couple years and no cars have come off the lift. We have cars up on lifts overnight for days and weeks and no issues. None of out lifts are outside. We use the forklift to lift cars for steam pressure washing.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 25 2018, 04:33 PM

I think brand has allot to do with it regarding failure rates. What kind are you using?? I hear allot like the greg smith but those appear to be atlas brand?

Posted by: mepstein Mar 25 2018, 04:36 PM

We just bought 5 new ones for the new shop but I think our old ones are Atlas. I'll check tomorrow. Greg Smith is 5 miles from the shop, no tax in Delaware, so that does come into play.
I think failures are mostly operator error or old lifts. Our cars, 911's, ect are so light that they should never be coming close to the max of even the cheapest lift.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 25 2018, 07:36 PM

Thanks.. Not sure what I am going to buy yet..

Posted by: Mblizzard Mar 26 2018, 07:23 AM

I think what we all have to do is take tis incident to heart. We get comfortable working on our cars either as a shade tree mechanic or a professional, but this is dangerous work!

When it comes to lifting heavy things there are so many things that can go wrong. Now that e see this everyone should evaluate their lifts to determine if this type of failure can occur based on the design of your lift.

When I worked in my fathers diesel engine shop we handled some truly massive marine and locomotive engines. Even after completing a new lift plan for every move and ensuring that the lifting cables were rated for the load we had problems.

One thing that we implemented was to lift the load a slight distance and wait at least 10-min before proceeding further and spend that time inspecting all of the lift points. Many errors were discovered during this 10-min which saved a lot of money and prevented potential injuries.

Now that I am a shade tree mechanic I still practice a triple support approach when working under a car. It may be on jack stands as the main support. But I have another set under the car but not touch to catch if the first set fails. Also I always use the good old wooden blocks placed under the car so that no matter what happens the car will not make it all the way to the ground.

Posted by: JOEPROPER Mar 26 2018, 07:41 AM

I didn't read every response but every pretty much every lift, including the lift in the 1st picture has a safety device (this one wasn't working) which will not allow the arms on either side to fall as seen in the picture. I think most modern lifts if not all are safe as long as you use them as intended and the lift operator is aware of the operation of the safety.
What you see in the picture should have never happened. That was avoidable. That'll scare the s#&t out of you! Glad no one was hurt. Great example to learn from someone else's mistake!

Posted by: bdstone914 Mar 26 2018, 08:10 AM

I think failures are mostly operator error or old lifts. Our cars, 911's, ect are so light that they should never be coming close to the max of even the cheapest lift.
[/quote]


Thanks.. Not sure what I am going to buy yet..
[/quote]

I agree the George bashing is not called for and in poor taste. He posted this as a warning for others.

I would be interested in the cause of failure. I suspect that if used as a pressure washer lift the repeated water and outdoor exposure cold have been a contributing cause. I would want those question answered by the lift inspector who Ok'd the lift as safe. Or maybe by another lift inspector. There was another lift failure video posted of a Chinese lift failing and dropping the car on persons below. Failures can occur regardless as to whose fault it is.

Don't bash the messenger.

Posted by: 914 Ranch May 3 2018, 01:22 AM

I have never ordered a part from that shop and yet I have received one. Even though it was free,. It was the wrong part.
Rust is slow, rust is tenacious, now I see, rust as karma.

Posted by: Mark Henry May 5 2018, 08:57 PM

Same with my Aamco two post, it's a made in USA, heavy duty, overbuilt, ALI certified lift.
I have a 996 on it right now getting an IMS Solution, my 914 is under it tonight.

My friends shop uses cheap china lifts, compared to mine they are sketchy as hell, especially the safety locks.

Posted by: porschetub May 5 2018, 11:32 PM

Ok George really has no right to be abused....really guys ,talked to my brother re: rachet locks,he said if the failure of one cable happens quickly the lock on that side fails to work and the whole lots tilts over, he mentioned cable lubrication during the the time between inspections was the responsibility of the owner,in our country lifts are locked out until repairs are effected or the new compliance cert is issued...makes sense to me.
I still fail to see a lift outside being exposed to weather and waterblasting would last too long.

Posted by: Larmo63 May 6 2018, 12:02 PM

Coulda woulda shoulda

Posted by: Perry Kiehl May 6 2018, 12:14 PM

I don't think that could possibly happen on my lift (Rotary 2 post asymmetrical), spring loaded locks that have a detent every 8" or so.

I did have to put a seal kit in one of the cylinders which wasn't too difficult, just messy