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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Holy Moley!

Posted by: Engman Jun 9 2005, 01:40 PM

So I was looking thru the Bird Board at Fuel injection componets and I see

Fuel Injector, 4 Per Car, 914 2.0 (1973-74), Each
0-280-150-019 $210.10

Whoa!

Two years ago these were like $89 - now they are over $200!

Anyone know why?

M

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 9 2005, 01:50 PM

1) Porsche is making a buttload of money in Euro float
2) Because They Can

Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 9 2005, 01:53 PM

I have noticed the same thing. Some stuff is NLA too.

Posted by: drgchapman Jun 9 2005, 01:54 PM

Buy 'em used, have 'em tuned up at the injector shop. So many guys switching to carbs...they come up.

Posted by: spare time toys Jun 9 2005, 01:59 PM

Just an off the wall question. Has any ony checked into ford injectors? IIRC the 928 guys have found ford injectors that work on the 8s'. They are also using ford truck motor mounts as a replacement. Its like $80 for a pair verses a left nut for each one.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jun 9 2005, 02:05 PM

GEEZ I thought you were on my Holy moly thread.
I would imagine if you could match the flow characteristics it would work. ie. 19 lb 24lb or 32 lb injectors common ford units.
If you had a closed loop system it would be easier as the computer would fine tune with pulse width.
D-jet just sprays on curve of RPM, throttle position and vacuum.

Posted by: greg.treadway Jun 9 2005, 02:10 PM

I hope people are not switching to carbs!
These injectors should be $185.00/each and they do continue to go up. You can always get rebuilt ones to save a little.

user posted image

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 9 2005, 03:24 PM

Ouch! I remember when they were $60 each. From us.

Most modern injectors will not fit the intake correctly. Most of them nowadays have a different end to them, and they use different seals. You could probably make it work with some machining... You'd also have to fabricate a way to hold the injectors in place and get fuel to them; most nowadays get sandwiched between the fuel rail and the manifold and don't have any separate way to fasten them. (Talk to the Megasquirt 914 guys; several of them have figured out which injectors can fit and how to make them fit.)

...That's in addition to making sure the flow numbers and the electrical characteristics match the stock injector's...

Sounds like an interesting project, but probably not cost-effective.

Yet.

(Of course, if someone does such a project then they'll have a real leg up when the stock parts get too $$$ to replace.)

--DD

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 9 2005, 03:50 PM

QUOTE (Joe Ricard @ Jun 9 2005, 04:05 PM)
D-jet just sprays on curve of RPM, throttle position and vacuum.

it'd be cool if it did that, but in fact, D-Jet knows only vacuum and rpm.

the TPS is used only as an accel pump kludge...

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 9 2005, 03:59 PM

The hose-barb style injectors haven't been used by any OEM in quite some time. There's a ready supply of older D-Jet injectors (I have 8 sitting in my garage, I'm sure others have even more), and cleaning them is usually sufficient to make them work like new.

New injectors in the O-ring style (O-ring mounts on both ends) are readily available new in a wide variety of sizes for as little as $30 ea. Fitting these to a D-Jet engine would require actual fuel rails, some plumbing to connect them, and MAYBE a bit of work on the runners, plus some way to secure the fuel rail (which also secures the injectors).

If it's any consolation, GPR lists the 2.0 injectors at $180 ea.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 9 2005, 04:00 PM

QUOTE
Talk to the Megasquirt 914 guys

I used the factory 1.8 and 2.0 injectors.....nothing special

Posted by: fiid Jun 9 2005, 05:17 PM

I used stock 1.7 injectors.

I was wondering if the 1.7 injectors are sufficient to support a 2 litre with aftermarket injection management. This might help aleviate (sp?) some of the squeeze on the 2l units.

I think it would be hard to get this to work with a d-jet tho.

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 9 2005, 05:38 PM

QUOTE (fiid @ Jun 9 2005, 03:17 PM)
I used stock 1.7 injectors.

I was wondering if the 1.7 injectors are sufficient to support a 2 litre with aftermarket injection management. This might help aleviate (sp?) some of the squeeze on the 2l units.

I think it would be hard to get this to work with a d-jet tho.

Yes. The 1.7 and 2.0 injectors are both huge for the engines they're attached to. A 2.0 with 1.7 injectors and PEFI would be a lot easier to tune near idle, yet they'd still flow plenty for top-end power.

Posted by: Ray Warren Jun 9 2005, 07:42 PM

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jun 9 2005, 06:38 PM)

QUOTE (fiid @ Jun 9 2005, 03:17 PM)
I used stock 1.7 injectors.

I was wondering if the 1.7 injectors are sufficient to support a 2 litre with aftermarket injection management. This might help aleviate (sp?) some of the squeeze on the 2l units.

I think it would be hard to get this to work with a d-jet tho.

Yes. The 1.7 and 2.0 injectors are both huge for the engines they're attached to. A 2.0 with 1.7 injectors and PEFI would be a lot easier to tune near idle, yet they'd still flow plenty for top-end power.

I am using 1.7L injectors on my 2.0L with aftermarket FI.
It works and idles very good. I think it would be even better
if the injectors were smaller than they are.
If you do the math from an "injector flow rate chart" the
1.7L injectors are good for about 50HP per cylinder.

Posted by: ppickerell Jun 9 2005, 07:46 PM

Herr Mueller can draw this up in cad, and I am positive I can make SERIOUS coin at $180 each. Hello early retirement.

Posted by: ppickerell Jun 9 2005, 07:48 PM

QUOTE (Ray Warren @ Jun 9 2005, 05:42 PM)

If you do the math from an "injector flow rate chart" the
1.7L injectors are good for about 50HP per cylinder.

Ha, half that has most of our motors covered.

Posted by: ppickerell Jun 9 2005, 07:49 PM

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 9 2005, 07:50 PM

Hey Ray, I see you are using SDS on a 2.0L.

Have you posted your fuel maps anywhere on this site and if not, would you share your SDS settings?

Posted by: 914rrr Jun 9 2005, 09:02 PM

According to an Allen Institute Bosch fuel injection training manual, the following cars used D-Jet injection: some 75 thru 80 Cadillac, Mercedes w 3.5L to 70, 4.5L all, Saab 99E, Volvo 1800E, 1800ES, 142, 144 & 164E. Possibly some donors for injectors, etc.

Posted by: Mark Henry Jun 9 2005, 09:25 PM

QUOTE (bowlsby @ Jun 9 2005, 09:50 PM)
Hey Ray, I see you are using SDS on a 2.0L.

Have you posted your fuel maps anywhere on this site and if not, would you share your SDS settings?

Ray is running with a narrow band AFM, bet you any money your running rich Ray...
From an ol' narrow band guy with a new wideband

I've seen his maps...they look about right.

PEFI is great...I'm running a stock 1.8 on 2.0 injectors right now with no issues.

Posted by: rjkavanagh Jun 9 2005, 10:43 PM

QUOTE (ppickerell @ Jun 9 2005, 05:46 PM)
Herr Mueller can draw this up in cad, and I am positive I can make SERIOUS coin at $180 each. Hello early retirement.

Hey Patrick,
If you're serious, I'd be interested in reverse engineering this thing with you.
-Rob