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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Dual exhaust tips for a 2.0 /4 ?
Posted by: Dougster May 22 2018, 11:48 PM
With a 2.0 /4 ... Is there any options for getting the look (without sacrificing performance) of the dual exhaust like you see on the factory /6 and in particular the factory GT cars? I thought Dansk had an offering for this, but can not locate it now. Basically I'm after the look of separated tips coming straight out, but not really close together (like boxster, etc). Don't need chrome tips.
I'm always confused why you see the 1.7s with dual tip ansa mufflers (I don't want duals on both side for my 2.0) , but the 2.0L cars always get a single tip. Also, I see there are some "GT" style mufflers for /6 cars... but then there are size differences amongst the /6s, could none of them be used on a 2056cc type IV based on a stock 2L ? Any other options?
Posted by: jcd914 May 23 2018, 12:04 AM
All stock muffler for the 4 cylinder cars were single outlet mufflers.
Most aftermarket mufflers that were available were available for both 1.7/1.8 and 2.0 engines.
Dave of Triad makes a 2 outlet muffler for both 1.7/1.8 and 2.0 engines. How ever Dave has taken some time off from making mufflers. So if you are patient you can wait until he is back in production.
Tangerine Racing makes two version of dual outlet mufflers for 2.0 4 cylinder cars, a center dual outlet and dual side outlet.
Options exist, it just takes time and/or money.
Jim
Posted by: oakdalecurtis May 23 2018, 12:13 AM
Hey Doug, I have a 76 2.0, is this the look you wanted? It came to me this way long ago, but I think it's a Monza exhaust. Performance is great, love the look too. 
Posted by: Dougster May 23 2018, 10:52 AM
Not that I don't like the above set up, but it's a little more Italian looking than I'm after for my 2.0/4, I actually have a very similar unit currently in my spares parts stash from a 1.7 car I recently purchased.
I'm after more of an original looking set up... like a dansk "banana" style sport muffler w/ two plain exit pipes coming straight out the back. The tangerine unit is an option I guess but the pipes curve and exit out the sides, from what I can tell.
I'm sure there's a good answer, but I'll go ahead and ask 'cause I don't know - why wouldn't a dansk unit for an original 2.0 /6 not work for a 2056cc 2.0/4 ? ... is it something as simple as the flanges not lining up the same between the 4 and the 6 ? or perhaps hanger bracket's the problem? Is there some magic inside that would kill power if used on the /4? Both engines are (were) 2.0L after all, and with the increased displacement to 2056cc for the /4 - the HP would be at least similar. In my research, apparently dansk did make a dual exit unit for 1.7/1.8 engine but it's NLA. Does not seem like they made one for the 2.0/4, why not? maybe they intended it to use the same unit as the original /6? Thoughts, info?
Posted by: Mueller May 23 2018, 11:21 AM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201688
^Thread about 2.0 "GT" muffler.
Posted by: rjames May 23 2018, 11:21 AM
Hey Doug, I have a 76 2.0, is this the look you wanted? It came to me this way long ago, but I think it's a Monza exhaust. Performance is great, love the look too.
Given how heavy the Monza style exhaust is, I wouldn't consider it a performance enhancing part.
I had one on my '75 for a while and liked the look, but got rid of it mostly because I was tired of setting off car alarms in the garage at work.
Posted by: The Cabinetmaker May 23 2018, 12:24 PM
Monza, manta, and one other make the dual (not duel) outlet muffler. They are heavy, and sound awful. A performance muffler, they are not!
Posted by: Dougster May 23 2018, 01:11 PM
Monza, manta, and one other make the dual (not duel) outlet muffler. They are heavy, and sound awful. A performance muffler, they are not!
Again, not the type I'm after as stated a couple different times in this thread.
Posted by: Dougster May 23 2018, 01:18 PM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201688
^Thread about 2.0 "GT" muffler.
Yep, I'd already read that one before posting. I'm not sure if the original poster of that thread read the german ebay add clearly enough to tell if it was intended for the /4 2L or the /6 2L ... He may have just read "2.0" and assumed it was for the /4. He did not post a link to the add or a model number. As I mentioned earlier I've found mention of these for the 1.7 & 1.8. Either way, I can not located that particular muffler now, or a german Ebay add for it now, unfortunately.
Posted by: CMONNETT May 23 2018, 01:59 PM
Just make one out of a stock 2.0 muffler. Here’s one I made maybe 20 yrs ago that is still on my car.
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Posted by: Racer Chris May 23 2018, 02:25 PM
The tangerine unit is an option I guess but the pipes curve and exit out the sides, from what I can tell.
I did a special one similar to your search, for Tom Roth(troth). He might have posted a pic or two, not sure.
Posted by: Dougster May 23 2018, 09:26 PM
Just make one out of a stock 2.0 muffler. Here’s one I made maybe 20 yrs ago that is still on my car.
I like this, got any details on what exactly you did to it ?
Posted by: Dave_Darling May 23 2018, 10:42 PM
I bought a muffler that had been converted like that at a swap meet many many years back. Holy crap it was loud! Got rid of it and went back to my "thoroughly blown-out" stock muffler. Then went to a Bursch. The dual-out was the loudest of any of those.
--DD
Posted by: troth May 24 2018, 05:09 AM
The tangerine unit is an option I guess but the pipes curve and exit out the sides, from what I can tell.
I did a special one similar to your search, for Tom Roth(troth). He might have posted a pic or two, not sure.
I’ll post pics and dimensions after work today. Looks good, but more importantly sounds great.
Posted by: maf914 May 24 2018, 06:08 AM
This picture has been floating around sport muffler threads in the past.
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Posted by: majkos1 May 24 2018, 08:43 AM
I Love my Traid!
I also modified a FG Rear Valance to "Hide' the muffler.
Also noticeable difference in performance .
Sounds Great too !! 
Posted by: rhodyguy May 24 2018, 08:56 AM
6 and 4 heat exchanger flanges are completely dif. The muffler for a 4 you decide upon must be compatible with the heat exchangers on your car. It's all about the heat exchangers.
Posted by: jcd914 May 24 2018, 08:56 AM
This picture has been floating around sport muffler threads in the past.
This is the 911 muffler and earlier in the thread someone asked if there was a reason it could not be installed on a 4 cylinder 914. I know the inlet pipe flanges are different from 6cyl to 4cyl.
Does anyone have pictures of a 4 cylinder muffler they have cut open?
It would be interesting to see the insides of one.
I have a triad dual outlet muffler with 1.7/1.8 SSI HEs that came with my car but have never had it running yet to know how it sounds. Looks nice hanging in my shed but it is heavy.
Jim
Posted by: rhodyguy May 24 2018, 10:25 AM
I'd never modify a perfectly good Bischoff for dual tip. I bought a dual tip that someone else had done the hard work on. loud? probably.
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Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 11:33 AM
I bought a muffler that had been converted like that at a swap meet many many years back. Holy crap it was loud! Got rid of it and went back to my "thoroughly blown-out" stock muffler. Then went to a Bursch. The dual-out was the loudest of any of those.
--DD
But Dave, I'm wondering if that could have been because the internals were all just removed on yours (for track use possibly), rather than a couple of port holes cut in the bulkheads as per usual. From reading, doesn't seem like many complain they're too loud.. but I could certainly see it if internals were removed.
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 11:38 AM
I Love my Traid!
I also modified a FG Rear Valance to "Hide' the muffler.
Also noticeable difference in performance .
Sounds Great too !!
I like what you did with that valance, I have something similar in mind.
Posted by: Dave_Darling May 24 2018, 01:25 PM
I don't know; that was why I specified that I bought it at a swap meet. It was already modified and I don't know what they actually did to it.
--DD
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 03:14 PM
I don't know; that was why I specified that I bought it at a swap meet. It was already modified and I don't know what they actually did to it.
--DD
Yes, I understood. Thanks.
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 03:37 PM
6 and 4 heat exchanger flanges are completely dif.
Does anyone have a diagram/drawing depicting the dimensions of the early /6 muffler flange, HE's (up to '74 are apparently the same)?
I have found a diagram showing the different dimensions between 1.7,1.8 & 2.0 4 cylinder HE's.
So, in your opinion.. would you say that as long as the engine's displacements are similar (the 2056 /4 and a stock early /6 both being 2.0L essentially), that whether they're a /4 or /6, makes no difference, as long as the HE's line up to the muffler of choice?
So, for instance my options may be to use a dual tipped sport muffler meant for a 1.7/1.8 (if they exist) on my 2.0L based 2056 IF using 1.7/1.8 HE's on my 2L? ...or using a dual tipped sport muffler for an early /6 as long as my heat exchanger flanges were altered to match up to that muffler?
Posted by: troth May 24 2018, 04:46 PM
I’ll post pics and dimensions after work today. Looks good, but more importantly sounds great.
Here's an old vid of this muffler Chris Foley did for me. With the valves properly adjusted, it sounds even better. I think those are 1.5" OD pipes spaced by 11 or 11.5" center to center (can't remember exactly).
Damn, video's not working. Trying to figure it out.
Sport_Muffler.wmv ( 3.83mb )
Number of downloads: 69Maybe now it’s good?
Posted by: troth May 24 2018, 04:59 PM
And here’s a pic with the valence.
Posted by: troth May 24 2018, 05:00 PM
One more.
Posted by: Racer Chris May 24 2018, 05:09 PM
So, in your opinion.. would you say that as long as the engine's displacements are similar (the 2056 /4 and a stock early /6 both being 2.0L essentially), that whether they're a /4 or /6, makes no difference, as long as the HE's line up to the muffler of choice?
NO, absoulutely not!
The two engines are so totally different that there is no comparison between the same muffler on either a six versus a four.
The Triad may well increase the horsepower on a six but I highly doubt it has any beneficial effect on a four. Same with any muffler which claims power gains on a six, but with different flanges fits a four. It is almost certain to hurt the performance on a four if the two pipes on each side are collected together into a single inlet to the muffler on each side of the engine.
Posted by: Dion May 24 2018, 08:33 PM
Dougster here’s my 2056 with a muffler made
by TT turbothomas in the UK. Wasn’t cheap.
I was actually his prototype project. Not sure if he continued the line
with respect to demand. It was loud, but i loved the look. It was 304 stainless.
Link: http://www.ttexhausts.com/about-us/
I’ve sold both engine and muffler on now to jmitro here on World.
Good luck.
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Posted by: mepstein May 24 2018, 08:44 PM
I purchased a prototype SS 2 in, 2 out from Ben years ago. I switched the build to a 6 so it was sold. I think Zach/Vacca Rabbi has it now. It sure looked good.
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 09:20 PM
Thanks everyone for weighing in.. think I'll just try and get a stock 2.0 dansk 'banana' muffler and do the typical early 911 muffler to sport muffler conversion procedure. It's more the simple GT look I'm after.
In regards to what I asked earlier... I'm accepting that a /6 muffler on a /4 is no good, even though the displacement is the same (though I have no idea what magic inside would make that so), BUT what about a 1.7/1.8 muffler on a 2.0 if using the appropriate HE's ? Any obvious drawbacks with doing that? Just trying to get options straight. thanks.
Posted by: mepstein May 24 2018, 09:37 PM
Thanks everyone for weighing in.. think I'll just try and get a stock 2.0 dansk 'banana' muffler and do the typical early 911 muffler to sport muffler conversion procedure. It's more the simple GT look I'm after.
In regards to what I asked earlier... I'm accepting that a /6 muffler on a /4 is no good, even though the displacement is the same (though I have no idea what magic inside would make that so), BUT what about a 1.7/1.8 muffler on a 2.0 if using the appropriate HE's ? Any obvious drawbacks with doing that? Just trying to get options straight. thanks.
Yo just have to match he's, muffler and hanger. Or buy Ben's muffler bracket for a GT look.
Posted by: Larmo63 May 24 2018, 10:08 PM
Just put a six in it. 
Posted by: Dave_Darling May 24 2018, 10:17 PM
The Six has three cylinders per side, with evenly spaced firing. The exhaust pulses arrive in a nice steady train, so if you combine those three into a single pipe a given distance from the exhaust port they will flow steadily.
The four-cylinder engine has two cylinders on each side, with very uneven firing. You get both of those cylinders firing, then nothing for half an engine cycle, then both firing again. Combine those two into a single pipe, and you're going to have very uneven flow. Note that the stock -4 heat exchangers do not combine the two pipes at all; they remain separate all the way into the muffler!
For the Six muffler, you want to take the single pipe for each side and combine it at some point with the single pipe from the other side. For the Four mufflers, you would more likely be combining all four pipes at the same point--or if there is room, combine cylinders across from each other then combine those into a single flow.
That works fine. You need to make sure the HEs, muffler, and muffler hanger all match. But they bolt up to any of the 914-4 motors and work about the same. Very likely better than any of the 75-76 exhaust; probably a very little less good on a 2.0 than the 73-74 2.0 exhaust.
--DD
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 11:26 PM
Just put a six in it.
I've been there and done that. Wish I could again, unfortunately the /6's are too expensive for me at the moment.
Posted by: Dougster May 24 2018, 11:56 PM
That works fine. You need to make sure the HEs, muffler, and muffler hanger all match. But they bolt up to any of the 914-4 motors and work about the same. Very likely better than any of the 75-76 exhaust; probably a very little less good on a 2.0 than the 73-74 2.0 exhaust.
--DD
I got it, and thanks for the details. I figured exhaust pulses played into it IF ANYTHING. I've just tended in the past, to be skeptical about how much the insides of these (dansk for '68-'74) mufflers actually differ .. I had guessed they were basically the same internally and therefore unlikely to differ in respect to their effect on engine performance. Of course the flange spacings would be different across there different engines. But without opening each one up and seeing, there's no way of knowing for sure the difference internally. Maybe I'm not giving dansk enough credit in their tuning department though, and perhaps a muffler's not just a muffler after all
. So I'll stick with the conventional wisdom. thanks again. Posted by: majkos1 May 25 2018, 07:32 AM
I Love my Traid!
I also modified a FG Rear Valance to "Hide' the muffler.
Also noticeable difference in performance .
Sounds Great too !!
I like what you did with that valance, I have something similar in mind.
Thanks!
It was my first time working with FG.
It started out getting Hole sawed,
Notch out between two holes,
Put in screen for reinforcement....
Trim around exhaust .
Posted by: GeorgeRud May 25 2018, 08:43 AM
You could also tap off the passenger side of the muffler to make a ‘bull horn’ style muffler. I had one on a previous 911and it wasn’t too loud, though certainly more than stock. You’ll get tired of the dual outlet sport muffler in short order if you’re driving on the street.
Posted by: mepstein May 25 2018, 08:56 AM
You could also tap off the passenger side of the muffler to make a ‘bull horn’ style muffler. I had one on a previous 911and it wasn’t too loud, though certainly more than stock. You’ll get tired of the dual outlet sport muffler in short order if you’re driving on the street.
I have a rally style muffler getting fabricated. Twin tips out the back and one on the side. Caps for the ends so I can adjust the sound level as I wish.
I have also seen non-functional twin tips welded on a stock 1 out muffler just to have the look without the sound.
Posted by: eric9144 May 25 2018, 09:35 AM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=201688
^Thread about 2.0 "GT" muffler.
Yep, I'd already read that one before posting. I'm not sure if the original poster of that thread read the german ebay add clearly enough to tell if it was intended for the /4 2L or the /6 2L ... He may have just read "2.0" and assumed it was for the /4. He did not post a link to the add or a model number. As I mentioned earlier I've found mention of these for the 1.7 & 1.8. Either way, I can not located that particular muffler now, or a german Ebay add for it now, unfortunately.
That post was me and I kick myself for being a CSOB and not pulling the trigger on those--they were for the 2.0 (confirmed via EBay seller) and when I finally went back to buy they were gone and I haven't been able to find them since
Posted by: green ernie May 25 2018, 10:10 AM
With a 2.0 /4 ... Is there any options for getting the look (without sacrificing performance) of the dual exhaust like you see on the factory /6 and in particular the factory GT cars? I thought Dansk had an offering for this, but can not locate it now. Basically I'm after the look of separated tips coming straight out, but not really close together (like boxster, etc). Don't need chrome tips.
I'm always confused why you see the 1.7s with dual tip ansa mufflers (I don't want duals on both side for my 2.0) , but the 2.0L cars always get a single tip. Also, I see there are some "GT" style mufflers for /6 cars... but then there are size differences amongst the /6s, could none of them be used on a 2056cc type IV based on a stock 2L ? Any other options?
I also had one made by Turbo Thomas in stainless steel in the UK last year. Looks great, very loud and sets off car alarms. Great quality too. Cost about $900.
Posted by: Dougster May 25 2018, 10:41 AM
That post was me and I kick myself for being a CSOB and not pulling the trigger on those--they were for the 2.0 (confirmed via EBay seller) and when I finally went back to buy they were gone and I haven't been able to find them since
Well, here's the same muffler but for a 1.7/1.8 ... decent price, but then there's shipping across the Atlantic too. I may just get this one and run 1.8 HE's on my 2.0L (2056). Looks like the easiest and probably most reasonable option.
https://www.design911.com/Exhaust-Muffler---Silencer-Rear-box-Porsche-914-17L--18L_2/prod5519/
Posted by: mepstein May 25 2018, 12:04 PM
The owner of DC Automotive is a big Dansk importer. If there is really a desire for these, I can check with him on availability. But If you guys are just window shopping then I won't bother him.
Posted by: Martin Baker May 25 2018, 03:12 PM
STODDARD made these for awhile...
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Posted by: rhodyguy May 25 2018, 03:19 PM
Or you could just buy a Dansk for the 2.0 T-4 heat exchangers if that's what you have.
Posted by: Dion May 25 2018, 04:03 PM
I also had one made by Turbo Thomas in stainless steel in the UK last year. Looks great, very loud and sets off car alarms. Great quality too. Cost about $900.
[/quote]
Beautiful car! Love the colour & the black insert.
I did put baffles in the tips like the cycle guys use. Took out 7 decibels.
Posted by: Dougster May 25 2018, 04:56 PM
Or you could just buy a Dansk for the 2.0 T-4 heat exchangers if that's what you have.
The underlying point of all this discussion is that there is no Dansk or any brand GT/sport style muffler (w/dual inlet, dual exit pipes) specifically for a 2.0L T-4 ... do you know where there's one available? BTW, I have all sizes of HE's on hand.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed May 25 2018, 07:49 PM
Never was completely sure what this muffler was, but a friend in the parts business believed it was an Abarth muffler (he had one on his 911, but it had SIX pipes!).
Sold years ago to another member here. Looked great, sounded good. Only reason I don't miss it is I moved on to a 2.2 six...
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Posted by: JmuRiz May 25 2018, 08:03 PM
STODDARD made these for awhile...
Cool!
Glad I’m not the only one that thought cookie cutter megaphone tips would look good on a sport muffler.
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