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Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 07:35 AM

Good morning. The discussion/help that you're offering on a potential 1.7 L refresh has me wondering about doing that as a second tech day for the SoCal mafia.

Different sort of thing in all likelihood then what the good Doctor helped us with, but my guess is that there are a bunch of us that have engines hanging around that could either benefit from this or could be put back into use.

Would this be useful for a good number of our members here? If we had a good set of prerequisites do you think we could knock this out in a day? I'm thinking that if we got well organized maybe we could do a group buy sort of thing with one machine shop to do the work.

What do you think?

Posted by: ValcoOscar May 31 2018, 08:20 AM

I have a few spare engines at the moment, one is a 1.7 w factory FI that I removed from my 73. Condition unknown.
I also have a 2.0 VW bus engine w dual webers that has sat for two years. It should fire up rather easily.

In either case, I'm open to this tech day.



Oscar

Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 08:24 AM

Oscar!

Great, so we have two.

Still early out here, hopefully more people will jump in post-coffee.

BTW - kicking around shifter bushings / suspension refresh / trim refresh / dyno day for carb tuning and some other ideas as we keep this group thing going. Don't be shy if you have ideas for what would benefit the community.

Posted by: Boomingbeetle May 31 2018, 10:48 AM

I have a carb’d 1.7 in the garage from my big-4 conversion. It ran pretty good but I’d be willing to open it up to a 1911. Would love to attend either way

Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 11:05 AM

So now we have three! My hunch is that we can suck Gabe into this, so let's call it four.

Let's get a fifth....who else gentlemen?

Posted by: ValcoOscar May 31 2018, 11:14 AM

I can host (90621). I have lots of space, tables and tools, but unfortunately no specialty tools to speak of.



Oscar

Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 12:30 PM

Thank you Oscar

Posted by: marksteinhilber May 31 2018, 12:38 PM

I may be interested in watching/attending. I'm not sure I'm ready to invest $$ in all the parts to assemble a third engine for myself. I have a used GA 2.0 shortblock with crank, rods, cam, and flywheel waiting to rebuild in storage along with some used 2.0 smog heads, and some 1.7 rockers with swivel feet adjusters... But I have a spare already rebuilt 2056 waiting to go in the car. I think all my third engine parts need to be fully torn down and checked by the machine shop before I consider building it back up (2258?). All this will add cost for line boring, oil pressure / relief, new oil pump, bearings, dowel pins, cam, lifters, and the balancing to really do this right. I think a 2258 will cost at least $3k in additional parts and shop costs.

Are you all are sure that all of you only need to address P&C and top ends? I guess you could all tear your engines down to that point beforehand. It will take some time for all the heads can be reconditioned at the machine shop, unless you are all buying new AMC 1.8 heads with valves and porting from AA or other sources (more $$). To have a group engine build day, you will each need to have your new P&Cs, deck heights figured out, gasket sets ready, and the parts for your valve trains. I'm not sure I'd try to do a group of engines in just a day. Maybe it's best to start this as group buy for machine shop services and some P&C kits. Then a couple weeks later, you could assemble one or two engines as a group so everyone learns and gets experience. A follow-on day could build a couple more or the remaining engines. Is EMW Jorge or other expert interested in helping the group? Colin?

TDskip, how skilled are you now with gearboxes and can you tell if a spare is in good condition without driving it? I need to have mine fixed as it sometimes pops out of third and is not a shift linkage problem or adjustment. I have a spare gearbox, but I don't know if it is worse, or any good at all.... Is your 914 driving? Mark

Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 12:47 PM

QUOTE(marksteinhilber @ May 31 2018, 01:38 PM)

I may be interested in watching/attending. I'm not sure I'm ready to invest $$ in all the parts to assemble a third engine for myself. I have a used GA 2.0 shortblock with crank, rods, cam, and flywheel waiting to rebuild in storage along with some used 2.0 smog heads, and some 1.7 rockers with swivel feet adjusters... But I have a spare already rebuilt 2056 waiting to go in the car. I think all my third engine parts need to be fully torn down and checked by the machine shop before I consider building it back up (2258?). All this will add cost for line boring, oil pressure / relief, new oil pump, bearings, dowel pins, cam, lifters, and the balancing to really do this right. I think a 2258 will cost at least $3k in additional parts and shop costs.

Are you all are sure that all of you only need to address P&C and top ends? I guess you could all tear your engines down to that point beforehand. It will take some time for all the heads can be reconditioned at the machine shop, unless you are all buying new AMC 1.8 heads with valves and porting from AA or other sources (more $$). To have a group engine build day, you will each need to have your new P&Cs, deck heights figured out, gasket sets ready, and the parts for your valve trains. I'm not sure I'd try to do a group of engines in just a day. Maybe it's best to start this as group buy for machine shop services and some P&C kits. Then a couple weeks later, you could assemble one or two engines as a group so everyone learns and gets experience. A follow-on day could build a couple more or the remaining engines. Is EMW Jorge or other expert interested in helping the group? Colin?

TDskip, how skilled are you now with gearboxes and can you tell if a spare is in good condition without driving it? I need to have mine fixed as it sometimes pops out of third and is not a shift linkage problem or adjustment. I have a spare gearbox, but I don't know if it is worse, or any good at all.... Is your 914 driving? Mark

Posted by: sb914 May 31 2018, 01:27 PM

I'd be into suspension refresh-upgrade!
Engines in both cars are fine!
And maybe small welding project!

Posted by: MM1 May 31 2018, 02:25 PM

At the very least I would like to observe. Mark's points about staging are well-taken.

Posted by: MM1 May 31 2018, 02:26 PM

Thanks for offering to host, Oscar!

Posted by: burton73 May 31 2018, 03:18 PM

I would love to come. Not sure what to fix as I only have a questionable 1.7 in my 70 car that has not run since 1985. It depends on the date.

Thanks Oscar.

You are very kind person. Sell me you light blue car!

Bob B

Posted by: Tdskip May 31 2018, 06:19 PM

OK - so I am going to say we have adequate interest, so it is really more about;

1) logistics
2) skill

Logistics = everyone having things ready so we can be at the same stage and press forward together

Skill = making sure we press forward together in the right direction so we don't all create boat anchors and have to listen to Mr Epstein remind us he said to put in a 3.2l in the first place.

I think we can work the logistics, I am more worried about skill.

The suggestion we find a machine shop, or EMW to help guide this is an excellent one I think.

Posted by: mepstein May 31 2018, 06:22 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ May 31 2018, 08:19 PM)

Posted by: 914_teener May 31 2018, 06:27 PM

Just a thought......


If you had just one engine at say a short block assembly with already checked peices and just assembled by someone that has done it before....I.d attend just to watch.

Posted by: SO.O.C914er May 31 2018, 07:28 PM

I would absolutely be down for this one. If I can help with setup or bbq Oscar let me know Paul

Posted by: kahluver Jun 1 2018, 08:58 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ May 31 2018, 10:05 AM)

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 1 2018, 09:06 AM

QUOTE(kahluver @ Jun 1 2018, 09:58 AM)

Posted by: marksteinhilber Jun 1 2018, 02:10 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jun 1 2018, 08:06 AM)

QUOTE(kahluver @ Jun 1 2018, 09:58 AM)

Thanks Tom. Yes count me in. I don't have a motor to build but I can pick up the donuts.

That is a key add to the day - donuts, yum!

Psyched you are in as well.

I should be able to start dialing for some actual skill / knowledge later today. Very open for ideas on contact people etc...

Wonder if FAT would want to play?

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 1 2018, 08:13 PM

QUOTE(marksteinhilber @ Jun 1 2018, 03:10 PM)

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 2 2018, 07:29 AM

Great!

I'm going to start a separate thread later today to map out what we need to do to be prepared.

Ideally we would all show up with the bottom and ready to go and a standard set of parts and tasks to put the top end of the motor together so we could do it in unison and help each other.

That may be naïve, but that would seem to be the right goal.

Posted by: whitetwinturbo Jun 6 2018, 09:29 PM

Oscar's "ranch" is the best

Posted by: '73-914kid Jun 7 2018, 09:48 AM

Depending on the date, I would be happy to providef the "skill" for engine assembly if someone can bring an engine in pieces.

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 10 2018, 07:10 AM

Good morning -just an update that Oscar, Gabe, Ethan and I are making progress on how to structure this.

Will be a two day thing now - day 1 is tear down. Day 2 is assembly.

Worthing with Ethan on structuring this.

Still need o figure out any group buy angle etc...

Posted by: kahluver Jun 10 2018, 10:37 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Jun 10 2018, 06:10 AM)

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 12 2018, 06:05 AM

Thanks Gabe.

Been chatting with Ethan and this is really starting to shape up. What followings isn't an attempt to be bossy, just trying to make sure we set good expectations and are planning to make everyone successful. This is only going to work if we're well organized and everyone does their part.

In order to make this work I think the event (notice I am not saying "day") would need to look like this;

1) Scope of work limited to top end rebuild of the same engine type.

2) You need to bring a good ALREADY CLEANED UP 1.7 to Oscar's by 8:30 AM that day or you are out of luck. Engine should be ALREADY STRIPPED DOWN to what Ethan wants to see (pending)

3) You need to bring your own tools / oil disposal etc so we're not losing time waiting for bits

4) Scope of refresh / spec of what we are building is shared across the participants, we are all flying 737-700s here...

5) Group buy with a vendor that Ethan trusts happens and parts are in hand a week ahead of time

6) Saturday would be group tear down

7) Sunday would be assembly, clean up, and loading

8) We need to make sure we leave Oscar's place spotless and find out what sort of wine / food his family likes since they are being Saints

Sound right? Ideas? Anything missing here, most likely there is since I'm a newbie...

Thanks!

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 15 2018, 09:38 PM

Hey guys-hope everybody had a good week.

I had a chance to catch up with Ethan tonight and Ethan. Bruce have been putting their heads together on this and came up with a suggestion on how to do this which is far more reasonable than what I sketched out. And by reasonable I mean not a train wreck.

Basically what we're going to do is pick one engine to tear down on Saturday, that way Easton can take the time to show us how to measure everything and determine whether or not there's additional work needed. Sunday will be rebuilding one engine that's already been checked out so everybody can see how to do it properly. We're working on trying to get this videoed so there will be a reference guides available on how to do it.

Due to scheduling issues and existing commitments it looks like this is going to be September now.

Posted by: effutuo101 Jun 16 2018, 06:17 PM

Cool!

Posted by: kahluver Jun 16 2018, 07:21 PM

Tom,. That sounds like a plan. This is how the 911 engine workshop I attended in Philly worked. It was great and had advantages as you could spend time talking notes and asking questions.

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 16 2018, 07:34 PM

QUOTE(kahluver @ Jun 16 2018, 08:21 PM)

Posted by: Tdskip Jun 17 2018, 01:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy6sfBcuCOc

Posted by: mepstein Jun 17 2018, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(kahluver @ Jun 16 2018, 09:21 PM)