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Posted by: WRX914 Jun 10 2005, 05:10 PM

Well, the car is finally on the road. The motor mount that we fabricated is a nice unit. I looked at all of the others, and I did not find anything that made me feel comfortable to use. Our is a full cradle, we relocated the turbo and intercooler. Fabricated our own exhaust (ceramic coated), re-engineered the factory wiring harness and it truely kicks some major bootie. We ran a 2005 997 carrera and shamed him...bad. He could not believe it. We are finishing up the details on this kit and they will be offering it soon. Be sure to look for us at the German Auto fest. We will be there with bells on! Look for the two 914s that have "Porsche Turbo" above the rockers.

Lets hear what you have to say!!!

Posted by: 914helo Jun 10 2005, 05:14 PM

Do you have any pics of the motor mounts? Sounds like an interesting project. Good on ya!

Posted by: MW 914 Jun 10 2005, 05:15 PM

Pics! PIcs! Pics!

Posted by: Mueller Jun 10 2005, 05:27 PM

QUOTE (audioculture @ Jun 10 2005, 04:10 PM)

Lets hear what you have to say!!!

I say "we don't believe you until pictures are shown"

who is "they"??

Scott @ Renegade or ????

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 10 2005, 05:28 PM

I will post pics soon. I am going to wait until the guys have the kit ready to sell before I post pics. I know you guys want to see the pics, but it took us quite some time to fab this little beauty, and I would hate to post the work and have someone copy it. It sounds just like a VW flat four, but without the solid lifter ticking. But when you shift gears, all you hear is a massive gush of air from the BOV (blow off valve). The BOV is located right behind the passenger seat so they get quite a loud wooosh. There is really no torque to speak of until you are into the higher revs(should keep the 901 transaxle intact with no problems). Around 40-60mph, the thing is an absolute rocket! Honda s2000's are like racing a kid on a big wheel... no comp. Also, may I say that the 2004 WRX engine that I bought has 4,000 original miles and it only cost me $1500+500 for the wiring harness. What a kick!

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 10 2005, 05:31 PM

That is funny! I dont think I would believe it either, but I am a honest man, and all that I say here is the truth. Scott has his hands in this project, but it is my idea, his employees. If any of you know Scott, he is a v8 nut! He actually said he is interested to put this motor in his race car.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 10 2005, 05:35 PM

QUOTE

I will post pics soon. I am going to wait until the guys have the kit ready to sell before I post pics. I know you guys want to see the pics, but it took us quite some time to fab this little beauty, and I would hate to post the work and have someone copy it

even with a kit, if the price is too much for some folks, there will be someone attepting to copy it, hopefully it'll be just for themselves and they won't try to market it, that would be totally wrong...of course I don't see anyone really copying the V8 mounts or other parts of those kits.....

i do see more subaru conversions in the future, but a few of those I am sure will be mounting the radiator in the middle so chances of your kit working might be slim.....

when is the GAF??

Posted by: Mueller Jun 10 2005, 05:36 PM

QUOTE (audioculture @ Jun 10 2005, 04:31 PM)

That is funny! I dont think I would believe it either, but I am a honest man, and all that I say here is the truth. Scott has his hands in this project, but it is my idea, his employees. If any of you know Scott, he is a v8 nut! He actually said he is interested to put this motor in his race car.

I know Scott...in fact I need to call or return his email so he doesn't think I'm ignoring him

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 10 2005, 07:10 PM

I am in Vegas for the last week of this month, up for a show and tell? I'd love to see it

Posted by: brer Jun 10 2005, 07:14 PM

How much original metal was cut from the cars?

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 10 2005, 07:19 PM

I was in Vegas a few weeks ago buying stuff from Scott. I asked about the WRX conversion and he just said "we're working on it". Shrouded in secrecy...

It was not in his "V8" shop...

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 11 2005, 12:39 AM

well i have been busy for a little, and at renagade, Dana is the one to talk to about the suby stuff ( opps ) he has been emailed all of my threads on my suby conversion for comparison and info

all i will say is it should be soon, which we in the 914 world means within a year

and audioculture nice to see you back and have fun with the suby engine

Posted by: jkeyzer Jun 11 2005, 12:52 AM

Where did you find the engine?

Posted by: Verruckt Jun 11 2005, 06:30 AM

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Jun 11 2005, 12:52 AM)

Where did you find the engine?

Yeah! Spill your source!

Posted by: BIGKAT_83 Jun 11 2005, 06:48 AM

Try this

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/turbo914/914subaru.html
Bob

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 11 2005, 07:15 AM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 10 2005, 07:35 PM)

when is the GAF??

September 9-10 2005

this year's featured car: 50th Anniversary of the Carrera.
(real Carreras have four cams.)

Posted by: Mueller Jun 11 2005, 07:51 AM

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Jun 11 2005, 06:15 AM)

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 10 2005, 07:35 PM) when is the GAF?? September 9-10 2005 this year's featured car: 50th Anniversary of the Carrera. (real Carreras have four cams.)

bummer....I'll be on my cruise to Alaska during that time...one of these years I'll make it down there

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 11 2005, 12:53 PM

QUOTE (brer @ Jun 10 2005, 05:14 PM)

How much original metal was cut from the cars?

The only metal that was removed from the car is a small (24x4) opening in the middle of the bumper for the radiator, and two holes in the front wheel wells for the heated air from the radiator to escape.

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 11 2005, 12:54 PM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Jun 10 2005, 05:10 PM)

I am in Vegas for the last week of this month, up for a show and tell? I'd love to see it

No problem, give me a call.

702-524-5580

keith

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 11 2005, 12:56 PM

QUOTE (Verruckt @ Jun 11 2005, 04:30 AM)

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Jun 11 2005, 12:52 AM) Where did you find the engine? Yeah! Spill your source!

I found it through e-bay. The guy lives in Gardena California. He is awsome. My motor looks brand new.

Posted by: WRX914 Jun 11 2005, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Jun 10 2005, 10:39 PM)

well i have been busy for a little, and at renagade, Dana is the one to talk to about the suby stuff ( opps ) he has been emailed all of my threads on my suby conversion for comparison and info all i will say is it should be soon, which we in the 914 world means within a year and audioculture nice to see you back and have fun with the suby engine

Thanks!

I love this thread, I have been off for a while due to everyone has the next latest and greatest. I wanted to wait until it was done and then pat myself on the back!!! Dana's car is the car that is on the road, in fact pictures are on Renegades web site. My car is getting steel flares welded on, painted, new wheels and tires, 911 front end and new interior. I put a killer stereo in Dana's 914 that I will probably do the exact same in mine. GAF here I come!!!

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 11 2005, 01:28 PM

QUOTE (audioculture @ Jun 11 2005, 10:54 AM)

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Jun 10 2005, 05:10 PM) I am in Vegas for the last week of this month, up for a show and tell?  I'd love to see it No problem, give me a call. 702-524-5580 keith

Excellent, I am working up there Monday June 27th through Friday July 1st. I'll give you a shout when I head up.

Posted by: Brando Jun 11 2005, 04:22 PM

How much heavier is your Suby 914 compared to a TIV 914?

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 11 2005, 04:33 PM

I think it is between 30-60lbs lighter!, well add coolant system - which scott said it was around 20-30lbs with coolant.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 11 2005, 05:26 PM

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Jun 10 2005, 10:39 PM)

well i have been busy for a little, and at renagade, Dana is the one to talk to about the suby stuff ( opps ) he has been emailed all of my threads on my suby conversion for comparison and info all i will say is it should be soon, which we in the 914 world means within a year and audioculture nice to see you back and have fun with the suby engine

That was nice of you to do, did they use any of your ideas ? I see they used the RH rad.

Posted by: GWN7 Jun 11 2005, 06:16 PM

QUOTE (jkeyzer @ Jun 10 2005, 10:52 PM)

Where did you find the engine?

Look at ebay....there is a guy in Hayward, CA that has a "few" listed

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 11 2005, 09:43 PM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 11 2005, 03:26 PM)

That was nice of you to do, did they use any of your ideas ? I see they used the RH rad.

nope they were past all the stuff that would have helped when i talked with them. i did show keith pics of my engine bar before they got to that but they wanted it off of the stock pick ups for the engine and tranny.

they almost had the car running when i talked to em but i figured they would mod it some for production kits so any more info would be helpful

also dana was very intereseted to see the radiator set up

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 15 2005, 02:03 PM

Hey, this is Dana. I designed, built, and own the 914 porscharu you have all been talking about. I just wanted to say that this little car is a joy to drive, is wonderfully reliable, and will kick the ass of about any car you tell it to. victims so far include: a new 997 (no plates on it yet! hehe) an s2000, and a boxter S. if you have any questions about the car or renegade hybrids feel free to ask. this kit will be available in about a month. For more pics and videos check out: http://www.renegadehybrids.com/turbo914/914subaru.html

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 15 2005, 03:37 PM

Dana,

How are you associated with Keith/audioculture?

Did you use the Renegade radiator?

Any idea of the kit pricing?

just curious,

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 15 2005, 03:54 PM

A brief history: kieth is my roommate. he thought it would be cool to install a wrx engine in a 914, and he bought an engine for his car. kieth's car still needs body, paint, and suspension work before the conversion will be installed in his car. kieth convinced me to do the subie conversion on my car, so my buddie mike and I designed the kit, i bought a 400 mile wrx 2.0 turbo motor, and my car is the one you see on the road today. as for the radiator, yes I used the renegade hybrids radiator. I think that installing the radiator in the engine bay like Scott Thacher did is a very cool idea but is not possible for a turbo application such as this one. pricing info will be available in about a month when the kit is released.

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 15 2005, 04:08 PM

Sweeeeet!


This is my dream conversion and I will do it someday!!!


I would love to do it with an EJ25T instead of the EJ20T if the engines get cheaper....



Awesome job!

Posted by: firstknight13 Jun 15 2005, 07:29 PM

WOW this car "ROCKS"!!!!!!!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 16 2005, 01:25 PM

Just a little more info on the kit. the renegade hybrids kit available next month will make it possible to install any EJ series subaru engine into a 914,the number behind the EJ designates engine(EJ22 = 2.2 liter). these include:
EJ18: Found in Imprezas from 1993-1997. Rated at 110hp and 120 ft-lbs
EJ22 Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1990-1998 and Imprezas from 1995-1998. Comes rated at 130hp and 137 ft-lbs, 135hp and 140 ft-lbs, or 137hp and 145 ft-lbs.
EJ22 Phase II: Found in Legacies in 1999 and Imprezas from 1999-2001. Rated at 142hp and 149 ft-lbs.
EJ22-T Phase I: Found in Sport Sedan and Touring Wagons (Legacies) from 1990-1994. Turbocharged and non-intercooled. Rated at 160hp and 181 ft-lbs. Closed deck, cast pistons, forged rods, oil squirters: turbo motor. Poor flowing heads.
EJ25 DOHC Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1996-1999, Imprezas in 1998, and Foresters in 1998. Rated at either 155hp and 140 ft-lbs in 1996 or 165hp and 162 ft-lbs in 1997-1999.
EJ25 SOHC Phase II: Found in Legacies from 2000+, Imprezas from 1999+, and Foresters from 1999+. Rated at 165hp and 166 ft-lbs. There was a slight compression ratio change from 1999-2000 where it went from 9.7:1 to 10.0:1.
USDM EJ20: US Domestic Market WRX. Found in 2002+ WRXs. Rated at 227hp and 217 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, open deck, and decent heads.
EJ25T DOHC: Available in 2004 in the Forester XT. Rated at 210hp and 235 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, VVTi (Variable Valve Timing), and drive by wire.
EJ25T-STi DOHC: Available in 2004 in the WRX STi. Rated at 300hp and 300 ft-lbs. Turbocharged, intercooled, AVCS (Active Valve Control System), drive by wire, intercooler sprayer, and semi-closed design

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 16 2005, 01:47 PM

QUOTE (plymouth37 @ Jun 16 2005, 03:25 PM)

EJ25 DOHC Phase I: Found in Legacies from 1996-1999, Imprezas in 1998, and Foresters in 1998. Rated at either 155hp and 140 ft-lbs in 1996 or 165hp and 162 ft-lbs in 1997-1999.

cool - i've got two of those...

one is in the Outback, with bad head gaskets on both sides, again.
the other is on a mover's dolly, back from a head gasket repair, ready to go into the Outback.

once i do that swap, and fix the heads for a third time (the first repair was done by the DAPO's dealer, under warranty, which he just happened to mention when we went to collect the title after making our last payment - a month after it failed again...) this could be an interesting engine for someone.

i really like that engine - when it is running - but i don't think i'll be putting it in my /6... the way our luck has been running with them, i think i'll be doing well to stay ahead of the head gasket repairs...

Posted by: redshift Jun 16 2005, 01:51 PM

Head gaskets.... is that just with that particular motor/years, or is that a problem with all of them?



M

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 16 2005, 02:05 PM

from what I have heard subaru's older engines suffered some head gasket problems. but nothing to be afraid of. all ej engines will fit, but this kit is mostly focused on the more modern wrx engines, which from what I have heard are not as notorius for head gasket problems.

Posted by: ematulac Jun 16 2005, 03:07 PM

If you're interested in a Suby conversion, you might be interested in this site:

http://www.outbackmotors.com/

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 16 2005, 03:14 PM

QUOTE (ematulac @ Jun 16 2005, 01:07 PM)

If you're interested in a Suby conversion, you might be interested in this site: http://www.outbackmotors.com/

very cool, thanks for the link.

Posted by: redshift Jun 16 2005, 03:26 PM

Hey look.. skinny, cheap fuel pumps...


(@ Outback)


M

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 16 2005, 04:30 PM

Dana,

Just a suggestion, create good installation documentation. Renegade's is a bit "light" but maybe they like fielding alot of calls...

Felix

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 16 2005, 05:08 PM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 16 2005, 02:30 PM)

Dana, Just a suggestion, create good installation documentation. Renegade's is a bit "light" but maybe they like fielding alot of calls... Felix

the kit will probably be released on friday the 17th. a full write up of the kit will be put on the renegade site at the same time.

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 16 2005, 05:08 PM

QUOTE

EJ22-T Phase I

This is the strongest block Subaru has made. It is popular with people who want to make big power.



Do you know what will be included in the Renegade kit? I have wanted to so this conversion for a long time now and someday will (hopefully!), I have a whole lot of SUby stuff lying around and could get my hands on pretty much anything else for pretty cheap. Hopefully Renegade comes out with a kit that includes only the stuff I wouldn't need.

Posted by: brokenmoped Jun 16 2005, 11:20 PM

I understand if you can't divulge any information as of yet, but my impatience has gotten the better...could you give us a ballpark figure of the pricing?

Posted by: Jacques Jun 17 2005, 02:15 AM

QUOTE

... the kit will probably be released on friday the 17th. a full write up of the kit will be put on the renegade site at the same time.

Ok, today has arrived

Posted by: Verruckt Jun 17 2005, 05:53 AM

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 06:09 AM

I have been up most of the night looking around the web for WRX, and related tuning (jees! i R a TuNErZ!)... maybe I am just not searching for the right thing.. I thought there was more bolt on stuff.

Where are all the 400-500hp Subarus I keep hearing about?


M

Posted by: ematulac Jun 17 2005, 07:46 AM

You mean like http://www.xcceleration.com/27.htm?

Try searching for 'subaru performance'. It's all in the search.

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 08:43 AM

Oh shit! I was spelling xXxelleration wrong..




M

Posted by: ematulac Jun 17 2005, 09:27 AM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jun 17 2005, 07:43 AM)

Oh shit! I was spelling xXxelleration wrong.. M

Posted by: mudfoot76 Jun 17 2005, 09:36 AM

All this talk about suby swaps makes me wish I had kept my wrecked SVX, and wish and dream about what RH might have worked up for the EJ33

(it is the 3.3L flat six in case you weren't aware...)

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 17 2005, 10:43 AM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jun 17 2005, 04:09 AM)

I have been up most of the night looking around the web for WRX, and related tuning (jees! i R a TuNErZ!)... maybe I am just not searching for the right thing.. I thought there was more bolt on stuff. Where are all the 400-500hp Subarus I keep hearing about? M

Dude, there are bolt ons up the wazoo for WRXs.


Just word your search differently.


Buy a block, throw a huge turbo on there, all the supporting mods like bigger intercooler, free flowing exhaust, injectors, fuel pump (maybe new fuel rails so cylinder number 3 doesn't lean out), and some good tuning and you have a 400 horsepower Suby. It is $$$ though.

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 10:49 AM

I found some other ones, using product names to search with..

One went as far as having the front end off of a motor, showing the timing belt.

I'm out! I also can't handle professional websites with huge banner phrases like:

The Compotishion SUXORS!!!LOLOLOL!!!


M

Posted by: MattR Jun 17 2005, 11:01 AM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jun 17 2005, 08:49 AM)

I found some other ones, using product names to search with.. One went as far as having the front end off of a motor, showing the timing belt. I'm out! I also can't handle professional websites with huge banner phrases like: The Compotishion SUXORS!!!LOLOLOL!!! M

Miles, in socal we spell tuners with a Z, so its tunerZ

dont hate

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 11:07 AM

Is it just me, or does an Impreza look like some kind of Chinese catfish?




M

Posted by: soloracer Jun 17 2005, 12:23 PM

QUOTE (mudfoot76 @ Jun 17 2005, 07:36 AM)

All this talk about suby swaps makes me wish I had kept my wrecked SVX, and wish and dream about what RH might have worked up for the EJ33 (it is the 3.3L flat six in case you weren't aware...)

I looked into the 3.3 but decided against it because of the lack of aftermarket parts available for it. Hardley anyone has upgraded this engine to get more power so if you were looking to do so you would be the guinea pig. Whereas the EJ20 and EJ22 both have a proven track record.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 12:33 PM

QUOTE (brokenmoped @ Jun 16 2005, 10:20 PM)

I understand if you can't divulge any information as of yet, but my impatience has gotten the better...could you give us a ballpark figure of the pricing?

I'd guess $900 to $1200 not including the radiator stuff............we shall see...only 12 1/2 more hours to go before it is no longer the 17th


I wonder if the new 3.0 six will have better support for it with the aftermarket stuff and tuners...that also is a neat motor, I thought I read that they made it to be about only an inch or so longer than the fours????

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 17 2005, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 17 2005, 02:33 PM)

I wonder if the new 3.0 six will have better support for it with the aftermarket stuff and tuners...

donno. that's what's in our '04 Outback, J's daily driver. she loves it. but -- is that available in any manual-transmission car yet? last i heard it was for AT's only (probably a decent decision in the light of WRX transmission woes...) -- and i don't think you're going to see a huge groundswell of performance-part support for an engine available only in AT wagons...

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 12:38 PM

I haven't seen anything for a 6.


M

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 17 2005, 01:14 PM

In general, the four cylinders have the most aftermarket engine compnenets etc.


If you guys are looking for specific stuff, post a thread up on WRXFanatics.com, I am sure many people would love to help you. Tell them I sent you over.

Posted by: airsix Jun 17 2005, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 17 2005, 10:33 AM)

I'd guess $900 to $1200 not including the radiator stuff............we shall see...only 12 1/2 more hours to go before it is no longer the 17th

Ah, but price info is only useful if you also know what ISN'T included.
-Ben M.

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jun 17 2005, 02:07 PM

I'm wondering if they are going to include stuff like exhaust components, a chopped oil pan, stuff for flipping the altnerator to a new location, etc. I'm anxious to see what is included in the kit and also, how they get away with making an engine support that uses the stock mounting points without comprimising strength.

-Tony

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 02:35 PM

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/turbo914/dana%20turbo%20video.wmv

doesn't sound too bad, better than my clackity Type IV

more pics and video on the move host site...no price from what I can tell.............

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 02:42 PM

found the price:

QUOTE

The kit includes at 10 pieces of the Renegade Hybrids cradle style mount, rubber isolators, mount plates (front), mount blocks (rear), billet adapter plate, custom flywheel, pilot bearing, throw out bearing, Kevlar clutch disc, stage two pressure plate, and all necessary hardware.  We offer an introductory price for the complete kit listed above for $1995.

no pictures of the engine mount or instructions until they get the legal/paperwork stuff out of the way to help distract copy-cats....


now the next questions is radiator?!?!?!?! can one purchase this kit and just use a junkyard radiator or is the really nice, sorted out Renegade radiator the way to go???

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 02:59 PM

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/turbo914/914subaru.html

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 02:59 PM

QUOTE (TonyAKAVW @ Jun 17 2005, 12:07 PM)

I'm wondering if they are going to include stuff like exhaust components, a chopped oil pan, stuff for flipping the altnerator to a new location, etc.  I'm anxious to see what is included in the kit and also, how they get away with making an engine support that uses the stock mounting points without comprimising strength.   -Tony

this kit does not require you to chop the oil pan, move alternators ect... the engine remains pretty much stock. and yes you can use the stock engine mounts without any comprimising of anything! exhaust is really easy in these kits so other than a custom up-pipe on turbo applications we will leave the rest of the exhaust up to the customer. as for the radiator, We are offering the tried and true renegade hybrids radiator system with these kits. even though these engines are smaller than a v8 it does not mean that they run cooler. my RH radiator is cooling the subie engine wonderfully and I would recommend against running anything from a junkyard. P.S. more info and pricing was just added to the site!http://www.renegadehybrids.com/turbo914/914subaru.html

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jun 17 2005, 03:21 PM

Wow, I must say that this kit sounds like a LOT of money for what amounts to an engine bar and a transmission adapter and clutch.

QUOTE

this kit does not require you to chop the oil pan, move alternators ect... the engine remains pretty much stock. and yes you can use the stock engine mounts without any comprimising of anything! exhaust is really easy in these kits so other than a custom up-pipe on turbo applications we will leave the rest of the exhaust up to the customer. as for the radiator, We are offering the tried and true renegade hybrids radiator system with these kits. even though these engines are smaller than a v8 it does not mean that they run cooler. my RH radiator is cooling the subie engine wonderfully and I would recommend against running anything from a junkyard. P.S. more info ans pricing was just added to the site!subie info

Chopping the oil pan just allows you to lower the center of gravity, which is one of the huge advantages of using a flat-4 motor in the first place. The oil pans are (relative to the dimensions of the engine) fairly tall for the Subaru engine.

I suppose moving the enigne forward a bit is what allows you to use the stock air intake location without cutting up the car. I guess I can't see a real disadvantage to that. Probably also offsets the problem of having the engine mounts skewed. (i.e. the engine mounts on the engine are in the back and the mounts on the car are in the front)

It really sounds like this is a $3000 kit when you includ the cost of the radiator/cooling system which if you are going to buy a kit like this you might as well do. Then you've got to figure another $1000 for an engine management system and wiring harness. And who knows how much for exhaust. So in the end you are looking at $4000 plus engine, plus a bunch of smaller random stuff. In the end, $5-$8k is probalby what its going to cost. That sounds fairly close to what a V8 conversion would cost.

From my perspective, (that of someone who likes to make his own stuff) this kit is pretty expensive for what you get. And really, for the naturally aspirated 2.5 engines or smaller, the engine bay radiator advantage is lost. I can understand why it might be hard to get sufficient cooling for the turbo motors with this configuration, but as far as I can tell this kit wouldn't allow for an engine bay radiator.

I figure that by the time I'm done with my conversion I will end up having spent well under $4000 total (thats for the car, 911 suspension, engine, converions, etc). But then I am doing a lot of work myself.... Depends on what kind of project you want I guess...

-Tony

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 03:28 PM

Any time you do a conversion like this it will cost you some money, but believe me with the amazing performance capabilities and great reliability of this kit it makes it worth every penny! as for the engine bay radiator mounting there is still a lot of room in front of the engine ( I replaced a stock waterpump with the engine in the car) if you want to try it you can. and if it works more power to you. but the renegade radiator is a great setup that has proven its self as a winner over the decades. when you see the quality and complexity of this engine mount you will see why it is priced where it is.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 03:32 PM

obviously anything can be done cheaper, but they are selling a known working package...I'm sure they'll find a few buyers for this kit....just wait, starting in a few weeks to a month we'll be seeing new people joining the club looking for a good donor chassis for thier new conversion project

i'm sure we'll also see a few more homebrew conversions as well..some will look professional, others will look hacked....

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 17 2005, 03:33 PM

So the kit comes with the radiator package, or is that separate? Your ad states 10 pieces, and lists out the parts - but not the radiator!?!?

Posted by: FriarJohn Jun 17 2005, 03:37 PM

Shit. I just KNEW it was going to be more expensive than the V8 conversion, even including less special bits and pieces. So much for a budget conversion. And no, I can't really "roll my own."

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 03:38 PM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Jun 17 2005, 01:33 PM)

So the kit comes with the radiator package, or is that separate? Your ad states 10 pieces, and lists out the parts - but not the radiator!?!?

radiator is sold separate.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 03:42 PM

QUOTE (FriarJohn @ Jun 17 2005, 01:37 PM)

Shit. I just KNEW it was going to be more expensive than the V8 conversion, even including less special bits and pieces. So much for a budget conversion. And no, I can't really "roll my own."

this kit is actually $130 less than the v8 when you take clutch components into concideration. Remember how affordable the subie engines are. my 2004 400 mile wrx turbo engine cost me $1200, ecu $500 $ wiring harness $500. and no ecu tuning required for pre 2005 computers!

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 17 2005, 03:44 PM

I disagree. $2K sounds like a pretty good price. Adapter and flywheel alone from Kennedy is, what, $500-700? Clutch is another $500-ish. There's your first grand or so. $800-1000 for the engine mounting hardware is a bit steep, but not hugely so. If you can't weld, it would cost a fair bit to have someone else make it for you. If you can produce nice units for less, I'd invite you to make them and set up shop.

I'll also disagree with your math. Getting to $8K is really a stretch. $2K for the RH kit, plus an engine at $500-2000 (let's just call it $2K), plus an exhaust (which is not expensive, as it's pretty simple, so let's say $500 to have it custom fabbed), plus maybe $1K for an aftermarket ECU assuming you don't get an ECU with your engine (which, for $2K, you should). Looks like $5500 minus rad, which could be done for $200 or less using Scott's example. Find a local $500 engine at a wrecker, use the Vanagon examples on the ECU, and you could do this for under $4K.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 17 2005, 03:47 PM

Battery relocated? looks like the intercooler takes it's place.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 03:52 PM

QUOTE (Travis Neff @ Jun 17 2005, 01:47 PM)

Battery relocated? looks like the intercooler takes it's place.

my battery tray rusted away decades ago so it was not an issue. not that I had a choice though, unless you go with an aftermarket intercooler that is about the only spot it will fit. why keep your heavy battery up high and in the back any way? we usually put them in the front trunk.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 03:52 PM

one advantage with the Subaru conversion is that a few companies offer basicly plug-n-play boards for the ECU which allows you to to fully control the ECU with your laptop or pendant...........

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jun 17 2005, 03:55 PM

QUOTE

I disagree. $2K sounds like a pretty good price. Adapter and flywheel alone from Kennedy is, what, $500-700? Clutch is another $500-ish. There's your first grand or so. $800-1000 for the engine mounting hardware is a bit steep, but not hugely so. If you can't weld, it would cost a fair bit to have someone else make it for you. If you can produce nice units for less, I'd invite you to make them and set up shop.

Actually the quote I got from them when I was looking at the adapter kit was $450. The clutch was another $350-$450 I believe. So you are correct, probably $800 for the clutch and adapter. If you shop around though you can get better deals on clutches.

QUOTE

I'll also disagree with your math. Getting to $8K is really a stretch. $2K for the RH kit, plus an engine at $500-2000 (let's just call it $2K), plus an exhaust (which is not expensive, as it's pretty simple, so let's say $500 to have it custom fabbed), plus maybe $1K for an aftermarket ECU assuming you don't get an ECU with your engine (which, for $2K, you should). Looks like $5500 minus rad, which could be done for $200 or less using Scott's example. Find a local $500 engine at a wrecker, use the Vanagon examples on the ECU, and you could do this for under $4K.

I agree with your example, but to do Scott's radiator setup required a reasonable amount of welding as well as cutting up of the engine surround. If you are going to go through all that hassle, you may well be the kind of person to weld up your own engine support bar as well. (giant U shape basically)

Finding a WRX engine for $500 would amaze me. I'm sure someone will find one for that much but from what I've seen the engines go for at least $1000 typically. I figure if you are going to spend a lot of money on a conversion you will want to ensure you have a good engine. So I'm not so sure a $500 engine is all that realistic for someone spending a few thousand on other parts. (this is just my logic though, mostly opinion)

-Tony

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 17 2005, 03:59 PM

my ecu cost $500, engine was $1200. also there is no welding required for the renegade radiator install. or the rest of the kit for that matter.

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 17 2005, 04:17 PM

i have 2700 in mine. which includes a good used stock clutch, all exhaust and a new stock suby radiator.

i paid 1500 for my complete and i mean everything including the full stock exhaust 60 k mile engine ( that included shipping too )

as for radiators i still think the best way to do the radiator is to use the stock radiator from the car the motor comes from, that way you know flow and size are matched, my new suby radiator cost me 179 dollars. as for engine bay cooling it works on my 2.5 liter na, i just spent 1 hour in stop to 10 mph traffic and my second fan would turn on and off on its own ( ecu controlled ) . but i would never try it with a turbo.

also moving the engine forward is something i thought off to get the intake to clear, but it was just as easy to flip the intake. now i know what it takes i could do it in an hour including flipping the alt.

i do plan on selling my engine bar design and an instuction manual that i am working on for about 500, it will also include an engine bay radiator frame ( or 50 bucks less with out )

i was thinking about selling a complete kit with wiring harness, engine mount, exhaust, intake parts, for about 1500 to 2 grand and i would even do the alt and intake mod if some one shipped those part to me ( lower end if they dont ). now i would not supply a clutch due to they can be found cheap enough already why have me mark it upand no radiator becuase they can be picked up locally.

so figure with my kit lets say the partial

1500 engine
500 engine bar and manual
200 radiator
100 fans
500 kep plate and fly wheel
300 misc

total 3100 and about 80 to 120 hours

full kit
1500 engine
1500 kit
200 radiator
100 fans
500 kep plate
200 misc

4000 and 40 hours

edit this is all for a na motor and no clutch which would add about 300

Posted by: ewdysar Jun 17 2005, 04:18 PM

For some, the cost of this kit seems too high, I personally think that it's reasonable for now. The various V8 kits have sold long enough that they're no longer re-couping the intial development time. For those people out there that would make their own, I suggest that they do it, but please don't copy someone else's design unless the developer say it's OK. There's a limited number of companies/individuals trying to develop new products for our cars, and if they take the time to work out the kinks on an idea/product and their work is ripped off, they'll drop out and move on to more profitable endevours. Renegade, Desert Hybrids, Simpson radiators, Jake's T4's, etc., all are accused of overpricing their intellectual property. There's not many people making an honest living on 914's, most cover other areas as well. We're most of their 914 customer base, and I for one, appreciate their commitment.

Just my $.02
Eric

PS: I could have done my conversion cheaper than the RH full monty, but I get plenty of comments on how well it turned out. For me, money well spent.

Posted by: soloracer Jun 17 2005, 04:58 PM

I considered the Subaru transplant and I think the kit price is pretty fair. I am putting a rotary engine in my car and bought the RH radiator to keep it cool (cost around $1100 if I remember right). When you add the clutch, flywheel and adapter plate to my build I would close to their kit cost.

On another note, I also just bought a 1993 RX7 and am purchasing an Apexi Power FC stand alone EMS for it. The 3rd Generation RX7 guys swear by it and I had a very knowledgeable friend who toured a bunch of the high end Japenese tuner shops in Japan who also swear by it (and Motec of course). The nice thing about the Power FC is that it plugs into the stock wiring harness and there is very little cutting to do. I just noticed that the Power FC comes for a WRX:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7981548871&category=33596

Perhaps those of you who are using the stock wiring harness and are thinking of getting a stock ECU might want to consider this option if you want to go to a stand alone EMS. What do you think?

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 05:56 PM

i also have a wrx powered 914 it runs a wolf ems (version4 which is fully programable) r33 gts skyline intercooler, 300zx ballbearing gt28 turbocharger and believe it or not an automatic 4sp gearbox, this is the first stage we have no dyno printouts or 1/4 mile times as yet but believe it should be a ball tearer , the car hasnt as yet been road driven however it does run and produces boost straight from idle, the car also has 911 front struts and brakes ,911 16x8 & 16x7s ,the guards have been pumped out approx 100mm front and rear.
if anyone wants pics contact me onporscheboy914@hotmail.com as i would be glad to share.
one of the other 914s on my list also sports a 270kw wrx sti race engine and 6speed box also with wolf ems amd 10in rear boots but is for race only.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 17 2005, 06:55 PM

banksyinoz,

why not just post them here?

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 17 2005, 07:08 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 17 2005, 12:42 PM)

no pictures of the engine mount or instructions until they get the legal/paperwork stuff out of the way to help distract copy-cats....

Considering the design, manufacturing headaches, liability, and having to deal with a "wide" range of consumers this is a good price! Of course you will receive a kit that may have bugs to be worked out but that's the price of being one of the first.

Anyone really know if a conversion kit can be copy protected? I am just thinking ahead about my Audi conversion and the possibility of marketing a kit.

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 07:13 PM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 17 2005, 09:08 PM)

Anyone really know if a conversion kit can be copy protected? I am just thinking ahead about my Audi conversion and the possibility of marketing a kit.

Unless you are BiGCorP Inc., it's not very cost effective, neither is fighting an upshoot copy-cat.. all they have to do is change one thing, and you have the burden of proving that it isn't different enough, to not step on your... dare I say.. intelectual property.

You'd be hard pressed finding a part of your conversion you could call your own.. more likely someone already that one..


M

Posted by: Mueller Jun 17 2005, 07:41 PM

QUOTE

i also have a wrx powered 914 it runs a wolf ems (version4 which is fully programable) r33 gts skyline intercooler, 300zx ballbearing gt28 turbocharger and believe it or not an automatic 4sp gearbox

i thought I read that the autobox supposed to be able to handle more power? is this true?? I wish I could find the article that the tuner is featured in....

pictures would be great of your car if you don't mind posting them (have to do one at a time, but we don't mind )

oh yea, welcome

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 17 2005, 07:51 PM

QUOTE (redshift @ Jun 17 2005, 05:13 PM)

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 17 2005, 09:08 PM) Anyone really know if a conversion kit can be copy protected?  I am just thinking ahead about my Audi conversion and the possibility of marketing a kit. Unless you are BiGCorP Inc., it's not very cost effective, neither is fighting an upshoot copy-cat.. all they have to do is change one thing, and you have the burden of proving that it isn't different enough, to not step on your... dare I say.. intelectual property. You'd be hard pressed finding a part of your conversion you could call your own.. more likely someone already that one.. M

I dealt first hand with IP litigation...depositions and all.

Low market and margins aren't worth the buying the legal protection. crap, I'm answering my own question.

Posted by: airsix Jun 17 2005, 10:19 PM

QUOTE (banksyinoz @ Jun 17 2005, 03:56 PM)

i also have a wrx powered 914 it runs a wolf ems (version4 which is fully programable) r33 gts skyline intercooler, 300zx ballbearing gt28 turbocharger and believe it or not an automatic 4sp gearbox...

You Ausies are always doing the coolest stuff with cars. I wish we had more of that culture in the USA (like it was back in the '50s for example).

-Ben M.

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jun 17 2005, 10:47 PM

Bankysy contacted me a few days ago and added this photo of his ride. I encouraged him to particiapte here....




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Posted by: ematulac Jun 17 2005, 10:58 PM

Looks like a sweet ride. Right hand driver, too!

Posted by: Howard R Jun 17 2005, 10:58 PM

Doesn't surprise me; there a bit weird up north. I'm off to far north queensland (or effin Q as its colloquially called) with the bride tomorrow for a weeks r and r (she reads, I play golf). I'll take the camera.

How

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 11:19 PM

QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 17 2005, 05:41 PM)

QUOTE i also have a wrx powered 914 it runs a wolf ems (version4 which is fully programable) r33 gts skyline intercooler, 300zx ballbearing gt28 turbocharger and believe it or not an automatic 4sp gearbox i thought I read that the autobox supposed to be able to handle more power? is this true?? I wish I could find the article that the tuner is featured in.... pictures would be great of your car if you don't mind posting them (have to do one at a time, but we don't mind ) oh yea, welcome

a company known here in oz as rigoli performance (two brothers v&e rigoli) have some very potent subaru engines in their drag cars running autos try looking them up just remember .com.au

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 11:31 PM

the pics r crappy but its only a phonecamera the crale that holds the whole thing in place was nothing more than 2"x2" heavy wall box section &2"angle


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 11:38 PM

i believe that if anyone can build something in their shed with their own tools then good luck if they want to know how to do it then i will gladly tell them what ive done.
i know many will not appreciate the things that have been done to this car but who wants to be boring , i would like to build an original one also maybe a gt look alike


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 11:45 PM

the computer that was used was a "wolf " it runs everything apart from the auto however the program has all the trims plus 5 extra aux outputs combined with the handset it is one of the better ones available here in oz i am not sure if it can b plugged straight in yet but can be wired up easily


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Posted by: firstknight13 Jun 18 2005, 09:22 PM

ok i'm sold on this 300+ hp porcharu!! i've checked the junk yards and the motors are way up there i was quoted 4500 for a 2004 with 16000 mi. on it with the wire harness and computer!! i guess the east coast is more expensive or it's who you know or who you ????. but i'll keep looking. in the mean time i have a 2.0 with carbs and 1000 miles and over $8000 in to it i'm looking to sell to help with the cost of the conversion. any ideas i don't want a total loss on the 2.0.

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 18 2005, 09:37 PM

QUOTE (firstknight13 @ Jun 18 2005, 07:22 PM)

ok i'm sold on this 300+ hp porcharu!! i've checked the junk yards and the motors are way up there i was quoted 4500 for a 2004 with 16000 mi. on it with the wire harness and computer!! i guess the east coast is more expensive or it's who you know or who you ????. but i'll keep looking. in the mean time i have a 2.0 with carbs and 1000 miles and over $8000 in to it i'm looking to sell to help with the cost of the conversion. any ideas i don't want a total loss on the 2.0.

If you really want an STi engine, then you have to pay for it. 300hp isn't going to be cheap no matter how you do it. However, non-turbo EJ25 engines are under $1K, and that's 165hp, or more than a Jake Raby 2270 Type IV will get you ($5-7K).

You can get a pretty hot (250hp) Soob engine for much less than $4500 if you look around. Check some of the Subaru websites.

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 18 2005, 09:46 PM

okay, get a standard wrx turbo... stock 227 hp and i have heard that by taking out the cat that goes before the turbo gives 30 hp. so now you are to about 250 or so. then getting in to some custom tuning parts like chips and playing with boost controlers getting 275 should be pretty easy. i dont think you would notice 25 hp when you are at this level.

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 18 2005, 10:26 PM

The stock WRX (2.0 EJ20T) makes 227 HP and if you remove the cats (2 after the turbo and one 'pre-cat' in the uppipe) it adds roughly 30 horsepower. Tuning can get you another 30. The WRXs are tuned very conservatively from the factory so freeing up the exhaust flow and tuning makes a big difference. You'll see similar increases in power with the EJ25T STi engine.

I would love to have either in a 914.

Posted by: CaliWRX Jun 18 2005, 10:27 PM

Oh yeah, removing the 3 cats and tuning the car adds noticeable power but the best change is the spool-up of the turbo. It kicks in much sooner and it pulls smoother.

Posted by: Britain Smith Jun 18 2005, 10:33 PM

I have been watching this thread and I think it would be a cool conversion. Although I hate having to mount radiators and run the water throughout the car, the engine has potential.

I know a member of this board who was working on a WRX 914 conversion a while back. He had his engine mount bar made by Tony at TC Design (http://www.tcdesignfab.com/914WRXmount.htm) and I thought it looked great. These pictures are from their website.

-Britain

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 18 2005, 11:06 PM

now they r good pics, the setup we used was just straight bits of box and angle, when the motor needs to be removed the whole lot comes out under the car, works well at the track if anything blows 8 bolts a wiring clip ,water, fuel and cvs and its all on the floor infront of u, i wish i could take better pics but i killed my extension light in the process

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 19 2005, 12:09 AM

well britan how good of a friend is he ( the one who had tc make the mount ) you might want to tell him it will be a failure. fiid orignally made his mount just using the stock motor mounts but he had 2 inches of bounce on the front of the motor, and that was pushing it by hand. fiid added two drop links off of the rear of the mount to fix it.

then you have renagades first try ( and they know how to build stuff ) which broke the first time they put weight on it.

look at it this way, the mounts on the motor are about 14 inches back from the body mounts. if you just use the weight of the motor not including the front of the tranny so we will say 250 lbs. then if the body side is 2 inches in dia, you have a 14 to one leverage on 125 lbs perside or about 1700 lbs trying to stretch, bend or break the bolts to the body mount.

either build it like my bar or go like renagades which goes from the body mount to the tranny mounts ( from what i have heard ) . i think these 2 ways are just about the only way it will work. ask anybody who looked at my car at the wcc who saw me shake my whole car by pulling on the motor intake.

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 19 2005, 12:30 AM

I believe there is one other way. There are threaded bosses on the bottom of the engine near the base of each cylinder. The Vanagon mount uses these with the engine mount points to anchor plates that go foward to mount points very near where the Type IV engine mounting bosses are. This would allow a slightly modified Type IV crossbar to be used to mount the engine. I doubt this would work with the stock turbo exhaust (that front cross tube would get in the way), but it should work with a non-turbo engine, or a custom turbo exhaust.

The TC Design unit was, I believe, made for Jon Watts on this board, and it ultimately wasn't used not because it was too floppy, but because it fouled the shift linkage. All due respect to Fiid, but there's little reason the mount pictured wouldn't work very well, provided you used a cable shifter. A tailshifter might also work, but Jon wanted to use a sideshifter. The mount would put heavy loading on the four bolts, which would have to be hefty to compensate, but it should work with adequately stiff tubing. TC Design designs and builds custom suspensions, so they have some expertise in the area of strong, light, stiff tube fabrications.

Posted by: redshift Jun 19 2005, 12:34 AM

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jun 19 2005, 02:30 AM)

expertise in the area of strong, light, stiff tube....

Mikee? You catching this?




Hasselhoff

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 19 2005, 12:56 AM

i use a side shifter with my mount, but i did make a new shifter bar to go around the oil pan. i also made it with way more offset than needed, but i can fix it later and drive it now.

i just looked at my motor to see the bosses you where talking about, i am not sure what you are talking about but i did see what looks like a large plug in the bottom of the motor that is about 1.5 inches in dia, and i saw 2 little holes with plugs on the out side of the heads, they are about 1/4 inch. another problem i just noticed a problem with a stock type engine bar, the thermostat and water inlet that is on the bottom of the motor is perfectly in the way of a straight bar between the body mounts.

i personally think my mount is one of the best solutions, i spent about 30 hours looking at all of the possiblitys and mine is simple and very solid.

Posted by: redshift Jun 19 2005, 01:05 AM

Solid mount is a good thing!

Why didn't they use a chain system, instead of a belt?

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 19 2005, 01:30 AM

chains stretch and need oil. and if they stretch or dont get oil they trash the spocket too. then we get in to noise issue

belts are cheaper too

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 19 2005, 01:53 AM

QUOTE (scott thacher @ Jun 18 2005, 10:56 PM)

i use a side shifter with my mount, but i did make a new shifter bar to go around the oil pan. i also made it with way more offset than needed, but i can fix it later and drive it now. i just looked at my motor to see the bosses you where talking about, i am not sure what you are talking about but i did see what looks like a large plug in the bottom of the motor that is about 1.5 inches in dia, and i saw 2 little holes with plugs on the out side of the heads, they are about 1/4 inch. another problem i just noticed a problem with a stock type engine bar, the thermostat and water inlet that is on the bottom of the motor is perfectly in the way of a straight bar between the body mounts. i personally think my mount is one of the best solutions, i spent about 30 hours looking at all of the possiblitys and mine is simple and very solid.

I'm sure your mount is very good, but it's not the only way.

http://www.smallcar.com/m4.htm

These guys make Subaru into Vanagon mounts. The Vanagon mounts the engine very similarly to the 914, just flopped around. They don't have any clearance issues with the coolant fittings. There are some photos at the above link that show where the threaded bosses are I'm talking about. They're not at the heads, they're at the BASE of the cylinders, near the sump.

This mount doesn't require you to permanently weld anything to the car, which I see as an advantage.

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Jun 19 2005, 02:12 AM

I'd personally be afraid to mount an engine using anything but its designed engine mount points, but maybe I'm too conservative.

Regarding belts, the rated life of the Subaru belts is 105,000 miles for 1996 and on belts for the 2.5L at least.

From an article on chaning the belts on subaru engines:

"Next, it's always been an engineering challenge to keep the lon chains or gear trains necessary for overhead cam engines quiet and trouble-free. Also, if there was a failure of a chain, a sprocket or a gear, the oil tightness of the engines would have to be violated to perform the repair, and that meant there was always the potential of comebacks for lube leaks. A timing belt is inheently quiet, and its replacement is an external job."

According to the same article, you can get high performance timing belts that stretch over their lifetime such that valve timing is off by only 0.07% ! Those are rated for 70,000 miles.

While there may be many ways to hold the engine, they all have drawbacks. The TC design one, while it apears to be well made, still seems to suffer from a leverage problem. 2 inch diameter tube or not, the torque is still applied to that small bolt on each side of the car.

Scott's bar, while perhaps mechanically speaking is very sound, requires some slight modification of the engine bay. I'm not sure why anyone would be concerned about that unless they can't get some small amount of welding done, or plan to revert to a concours car at some point.

The renegade setup if it is as described will work well and be an easy bolt-in solution. It requires however moving everything forward a bit. Maybe its not an issue. It will be interesting to see how they manage to keep such a large structure light. Also, from their description, the oil pan stays stock. I would think being able to move the center of mass down by 2 inches would be desireable to many...


So there's probably not one BEST mount for everyone.



-Tony

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 19 2005, 03:08 AM

i am sorry about what i have done to your photo but it was a way 4 me to show what i have now all feedback is appreciated so please shoot away ,the original mounts r being used the only problems r starter is touching floor big deal and the sump sits low, the drive shafts clear all with enough room 4 the exhaust, the cradle is solid bolted to the body as the engine and box use their original mounts as they would in their rightful home, sorry again about the picture dont shoot 2 much


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Posted by: scott thacher Jun 19 2005, 11:21 AM

james i am not saying mine is the only way. and at the point where the car has to be cut to get in the radiator a little welding is not a big deal. if you look at the picture above you can see how they curved the front cross bar down and forward ( or maybe just forward ) to clear the thermo housing on the right side of center. TC's mount is very pretty, and if it got extended to the tranny mounts or even some kind lof linkgoing up at the rear of the motor it would be perfect. with the exception of the shift bar.

Posted by: jonwatts Jun 19 2005, 01:27 PM

You guys are funny.

Tony's (http://www.tcdesignfab.com) mount is plenty solid, there is no bounce. I'd gladly post pictures of my 200lb self jumping up and down on the engine mounted in the car if it would help convince anybody. When I had the mount made I was going to make a cable-shifter because the RennShift wasn't out yet. Now that we have a solution for poor shifting 914's I'd like to keep the shift rod; so I'll take it back to Tony for him to modify.

I won't argue with anybody over who's mount is best since my car is still in-progress, but if you guys saw Eric Tischer's engine mount you might come to think you're over-engineering things just a bit.

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 01:34 AM

here r some pics of that mount and some tell me what ya think


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 01:35 AM

sti anyone


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 01:54 AM

and more


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 01:56 AM

and more



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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 01:57 AM

fat ass


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 02:00 AM

and some


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 02:03 AM

that last one was the engine mounting i hope these are useful to the people that contacted me


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 02:06 AM

thats a crap pic but its the engine cross over again


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Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 20 2005, 02:08 AM

this car is the racer that has been put on the backburner cause the turbod bmw in the other pic has broken more stuff again


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Posted by: SLKWrx Jun 20 2005, 10:51 AM

This topic is so not good for me! My daily driver is a 2004 Sti.. I'm sitting here beating my head against the wall trying to get this type IV to work and all I can do is look at my suby and think of it as an engine donor.

Mm.. 300 hp/300 ft lbs and a lightweight midengine setup.. Wow..

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 20 2005, 10:53 AM

I am sure that most of you out there could wedge just about any engine you wanted in the middle of a 914. what you get with the renegade hybrids product is dedication to quality. I guarantee that no one will mistake our engine cradle for a home built mount. we take pride in our work and it really shows in this kit. I am a "do it yourself" kind of guy too, but sometimes its kind of nice to have someone else do the tedious design work for you. if you want a well designed, good looking mount call me up at renegade. if you want to build it your self I admire your creative spirit and hope your swap goes well.
-Dana