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Posted by: mb911 Jun 20 2018, 07:35 PM

I have been putting parts together for this for a long time. I started with oil lines (hard gt lines) , oil tank side oil lines, now onto cooler and lines up to it.. Next will be t stat area.

I want to share what progress along the way as folks ask me often if I have a kit and well "working on it"

Here is a really nice oil cooler I plan to use in the kit. Notice the angle of the inlets and how they are divided..

Posted by: mb911 Jun 20 2018, 07:37 PM

Here is the stud welded to the long.. I considered 2 studs but not really sure it needs 2. With it held up front. What are your thoughts?

Posted by: mepstein Jun 20 2018, 08:27 PM

911’s use 3 clamps but the oil lines are longer. I think 2 clamps would be best since one might allow the lines to pivot at the clamp. It’s easier to hold a long metal pipe steady with two hands instead of one. But I’m just guessing.

Glad to see this is moving forward.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 20 2018, 09:01 PM

Do the door sill supports need to come out for this, or just opened up a bit?

Posted by: mb911 Jun 21 2018, 05:05 AM

They really need to come out. Was hoping to leave them in and modify but wouldn't work.

Regarding clamps the other spot its held is where it enters the cockpit. There is no real movement. And factory was brass these are stainless so it doesn't need as much support.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Jun 21 2018, 08:19 AM

Perhaps some type of support could be fabricated to hold the oil lines and also support the door sill?

Posted by: mb911 Jun 21 2018, 10:25 AM

Probably so..

Posted by: Socalandy Jun 22 2018, 11:21 AM

We used factory 911 brackets.


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Posted by: mb911 Jun 22 2018, 11:24 AM

I may do that.. Was gonna make my own but thats a good idea..

Posted by: Socalandy Jun 22 2018, 11:26 AM

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Posted by: Mueller Jun 22 2018, 12:21 PM

Lines look too nice to put the cover back on!

Posted by: mb911 Jun 25 2018, 10:18 AM

Figuring oil cooler shroud out

Posted by: mb911 Jun 25 2018, 10:19 AM

Posted by: mb911 Jun 25 2018, 10:19 AM

The front side I put diverters in as well. Not pictured yet..

Posted by: mb911 Jun 26 2018, 10:37 AM

Posted by: mb911 Jun 26 2018, 10:38 AM

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 9 2018, 10:39 PM

Here is the inlet I bought from Ben. Fitted, welded in, coated with rocker panel texture and painted body color. FYI, this is a bit of a tight fit in a former FAT bumper car...

MB


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Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 10 2018, 12:29 PM

Did you get the lines for the front sorted yet?

MB

Posted by: mb911 Oct 10 2018, 01:56 PM

sport of.. Waiting still on them to show up.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 10 2018, 02:43 PM

Well, I really need them now! Local place was lost when they saw the hard lines..."metric crap" this, "PORSCHE crap" that...Pirtek wants me the put weld on ends on the lines to convert to AN. I get tired of hearing the anti PORSCHE stuff, when they have won a F*** ton of races...I guess those lines have a 37 degree flare, and its 30 mm male with 1.5 mm thread pitch? Is that correct?

MB

Posted by: mb911 Oct 10 2018, 04:53 PM

BAT Inc has all the adapters same with pegusus.. I spoke with Criag Smith last week he is Clints dad and does all the soft lines. He is on it. I think.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 12 2018, 11:18 AM

I am seeing three different part numbers for the oil line clamps. Do you know which one is the correct P/N for this application? Thanks.

I think it would be the same ones as the 911 SC used.

911.207.303.00

MB

Posted by: Larmo63 Oct 12 2018, 11:34 AM

I used two of these down the side of the car....



https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=oil+lines

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 12 2018, 11:45 AM

Thanks, I just ordered them. Thanks for your help!

MB

Posted by: larryM Oct 12 2018, 08:56 PM

i like the hard lines

- but what was wrong with this oem factory GT oil cooler setup?

.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 12 2018, 10:26 PM

You are kidding right Larry? A 906 cooler? If you could find one it's probably going to be $10,000. And that's no BS. So that would be the main reason "What's wrong with the factory GT cooler setup"

MB

Posted by: live free & drive Oct 13 2018, 08:10 AM

Robert Peukert in Germany makes an exact replica of the 914-6 GT oil cooler (except end-bells are CNC'd vs cast) - very high quality. I bought one so I know. Cost was around 1000-1100 euro delivered.

It took about 4 weeks for shipment, but he would not ship to USA for some reason so I had him ship it to a friend in Europe who then sent it on to me.

Website - but only really an e-mail contact. I wrote what I wanted in english and used google translate and pasted that into the e-mail and I was able to communicate OK.

http://www.kuehler-peukert.de/

He also sells them on german Ebay on occassion, but no USA shipping.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 13 2018, 08:42 AM

Thanks very much for sharing that info.

I went with Ben's version because I have a 3 liter engine, and the ability to cool larger, higher horsepower, larger displacement engines was nice, plus this car is a replica that's is vintages raced during the Sacramento summer temps. Plus the weld in shroud really gives strength to nose area of the car, unlike the screw in, fiberglass version that are on the market.

Do you have a source for the metal shroud kit?

MB

Posted by: live free & drive Oct 13 2018, 09:17 AM

I bought the parts from AJ who had a couple of extra sets $$$ - Tangerine/Chris installed it with the same extra reinforcements that AJ did (see the Pbase site).

Mittlemotor has the parts too in metal:

Upper duct 799 euro
Lower duct 399 euro
Grill/surround 719 euro

Good euro exchange rate right now too.

The only way to find these is to go to their site and type "kuhler" into the search box.

https://www.mittelmotor.de/cms/de/webshop/search/0/?keyword=kuhler&limitstart=0&option=com_virtuemart&view=category&virtuemart_category_id=0

Mittelmotor's 914/6-GT oil cooler offering is not a replica of the Behr cooler as far as I can see.

Posted by: mb911 Oct 13 2018, 11:49 AM

Look what finally showed up today.. Yeah ..

Posted by: SirAndy Oct 13 2018, 12:24 PM

Them purdy ...

Posted by: TravisNeff Oct 13 2018, 12:38 PM

I wish I would have waited longer before getting my oil hoses and went this direction.

Posted by: mepstein Oct 13 2018, 02:37 PM

The Mittelmotor parts look great but beyond my price range.
i think its really cool to try to duplicate the factory setup but I'm happy just getting the overall look and function of the GT setup without needing to duplicate it piece by piece. If If had a real factory GT, then I would buy the "right" parts.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 13 2018, 02:42 PM

Price is definitely a factor here. Ben's kit will be reasonable, and effective, once it's all sorted out.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Oct 13 2018, 02:48 PM

on the other hand...
exact copy of 906 cooler


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Oct 13 2018, 03:18 PM

911 thermostat installed in 914 chassis with hard lines on drivers side.


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Oct 13 2018, 03:32 PM

The part we can all agree on.
and the exit into the front wheelhouse


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Oct 13 2018, 03:54 PM

Detail pic of oil cooler....the only one I can find
Has all the mounting features of the Behr 906 cooler


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Posted by: mb911 Oct 13 2018, 04:47 PM

That's the goal.. Call it GT inspired if you will but looks like front cooler soft lines will likely be $300.. That's cheap for the cohline quality

Posted by: mepstein Oct 13 2018, 08:00 PM

I think I want to do the whole kit on my blue flared car. The SS AN lines are pretty easy to make but I think I want the period look of these parts.

Posted by: 914forme Oct 14 2018, 09:16 AM

Parker, or Other hydraulic supplier?

You just need the adapters as Ben pointed out they are available. My Parker store in Cincinnati had them in a bin. Not for the Porsche application I think he told me they stock them for the Volvo equipment dealer down the street.

BTW, @http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=5176 Rory mind sharing the part number of that cooler? Also would love to see your front line area into the cabin, around the foot wheel, and into the hump and exits out. BTW, nice add of the late fuel pump mount.

Ben keep it up, your doing some neat stuff in the price range that makes me

So many parts I have sold I wish I keep.

Posted by: live free & drive Oct 17 2018, 11:07 AM

I found the old ebay ad for the 914/6 GT oil cooler replica from germany. This ad was placed in Jan 2018 -the BIN was for 1298 euro. I bought it for less directly from him.

I ran it through a translator, see below:

- NEW PART!

- Replicas made of aluminum in Germany!



- true to the original cooler rebuilt true to the original!

- fits like the original in the front air intake!

- Original Porsche Part number: 901.107.040.25



- Solid construction in aluminum with improved cooling performance /

Cooling net (465x100x80mm) in bar-plate construction

- Thread: 2 x M 30 x 1.5 mm

- painted or in natural aluminum as you wish!

- Danger! The delivery time is about 20 days! Please note!

- Postage / Packaging: € 9,90 (Germany)
Additional costs please inquire!

- For questions we are happy and almost always available:

Tel. 0049/8631/5898

tor-Ölkühler PORSCHE 914/6 GT 901.107.040.25 Neuanfertig.Alu für Frontspoiler!
Originalangebot aufrufen

Posted by: mb911 Oct 17 2018, 04:06 PM

That's very nice no doubt. My goal in this project was a bigger cooler and to create a turn key setup.. That is taking time for sure.

Posted by: mepstein Oct 17 2018, 06:31 PM

If you want a dead to match 914-6 GT setup, it will cost 5-10X more than any high quality setup. It’s pretty much like that for every piece on the car.

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 22 2018, 12:14 PM

rgalla9146, is it possible to get a shot of the bracket you made for the thermostat? That is exactly what I want to do with mine...and looks like you did a fantastic job mounting it. Do you have the specs for the lines on the rear portion of that set up?

MB

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 28 2018, 11:53 AM

Fabricated this out of what was left of the area you remove of a 914 engine lid when you build a GT lid, to protect the lines from thrown rocks and rubber, etc.


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Posted by: seanery Oct 30 2018, 07:40 PM

Wish I had a LIKE button for that pic! Cool idea!

Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 30 2018, 07:54 PM

Thank you! I wish I could say I thought of this myself but I just saw it in one of the pictures of one of the GT cars the factory built. I ended up coating it with the chip guard. Probably much more important with actual brass lines!!!


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Posted by: Martin Baker Oct 30 2018, 08:12 PM

Installed my front lines... Now for the rear section.


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Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 13 2019, 02:44 PM

So my car required a separate bracket to give the thermostat a good home, due to some additional chassis braces in my car. I built this to connect it to Ben's replica GT hard lines. Coated it with rocker panel spray. New PORSCHE thermostat, designed, cut, bent, drilled, and welded up the bracket from an old 914 engine lid, the section you remove when you make a GT lid. Installed caterpillar track (grommet edging, never heard that term before) where the thermostat contacts my bracket, courtesy the Cessna Aircraft Company...left overs out of my spare stuff...

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/grommetedging.php? gclid=Cj0KCQiAnY_jBRDdARIsAIEqpJ0Yu8KG3yP0aNSppYDNwI0tH9RnegCoQsDlUkr_j3mv2QNvkQ
HPtyoaApb8EALw_wcB

Its all metric, front to back, and it has been a MAJOR pain in the ass so far, and a good learning experience. Since doing anything with metric here, even in 2019, is like being on another planet...and when you say "Cohline" fittings, its the same confusion/confused look.

Two more lines to complete, the hard line to engine, and soft line to the tank...then I can move the car under its own power again...really tired of pushing the thing around.

MB


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Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 13 2019, 02:49 PM

Here it is mounted to the dog ear brace tube...lines ready to be crimped. Bracket is not complete as shown in the previous photos.

And do yourself a huge favor when you install these lines, use EZ Turn on the threads and surface of the sealing flare. It will prevent the whole threads staying on the thermostat, when disconnected, issues they have had over the years with this type. It also minimizes binding when the metal sealing surfaces make contact, when tightened. EZ Turn is used widely in aircraft maintenance, it is like Vaseline from hell, you can not wash it off with soap and water...it stays where you apply it. If I am worried about corrosion when I install a part, I use EZ Turn on it. Its more commonly called "Fuel Lube" among us in the aircraft maintenance world.

MB

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/ezturnlube.php?gclid=Cj0KCQiAnY_jBRDdARIsAIEqpJ3p4VaBsPug8euQ1JRc0i3PMiorwrQ1Jv7iAXqREqwMl-RVQwajTCAaAmzVEALw_wcB


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Posted by: SixerJ Feb 15 2019, 03:10 AM

Martin, your hose is not dissimilar to the factory look / presumably metric as your using metric fitting, can I ask where did you get it from?

Great tip on the lube by the way, wish I’d known that when putting the 911 back together

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 15 2019, 07:11 AM

You can buy that hose in bulk from Elephant Racing for $11.00 per foot. They have 3 types. They have some 30MM cohline fittings. I purchased mine with one set of ends crimped, and the other loose. I then fitted them, sent them back to be crimped. I would have bought the crimping tool myself but it's $1,600.

Another thing on the use of EZ Turn, it helps tremendously in preventing cross threading. You seem to be able to get a positive thread engagement quicker, and know for sure when you don't. To make it simple, it helps prevent show stopping damage to your fittings during engine installs etc.

MB

Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 15 2019, 07:11 AM

Hey Martin
Your installation looks great.
Can you back up a bit with the camera to show the orientation.
I love the thermo bracket, very 'aircraft' looking.
The new version of the Porsche thermostat sure is different.

Posted by: mepstein Feb 15 2019, 07:20 AM

I just ordered a tube. Thanks for the tip

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 15 2019, 09:23 AM

Morning and thanks for the kind words, means more when it comes from a skilled craftsman. Have to take another couple shots this weekend. Car is on jack stands to low and I am at work now. Have to support my habits somehow...

New version of the thermostat only differs by having six sided hex castings where the slotted caps where originally. First thought I had when I saw those slots, "Well, that is never coming out" on a junk one I have here, which I found on an early 911 in a Pic N Pull in Sacramento. The car was picked clean except for the entire oil cooling system, including the trombone. Think I paid $25.00 for it. I used it for my mock up. All four threads are ruined, and the thermostat is stuck open...

I wanted the bracket to have some coolness to it, and the idea actually is copied from a Cessna 414 STC'd Air/Oil separator unit mount bracket, with the lighting holes drilled to the stiffener across the top to add the cool factor. Weight savings? I am sure its ZERO!

MB

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 15 2019, 09:40 AM

[/quote]
I just ordered a tube. Thanks for the tip
[/quote]


Glad I can help, it will last for years. I have a can that I have had for I know 10 years.

MB

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 18 2019, 02:12 PM

Installed permanently now. Two lines to go. Here's to making the 2019 CSRG David Love Memorial Classic at Sears Point!!

MB


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Posted by: rgalla9146 Feb 18 2019, 09:25 PM

Excellent.
What does your connection to the engine oil cooler look like ?

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 19 2019, 09:35 AM

Its wretched, came that way from the previous owner. You can clearly see it came from "Home Depot" Hose clamps and copper plumbing it appears.

I just acquired an oil cooler to get modified, but I need to send it out to be cleaned and tested before the modification. I have some questions about these modifications people do to the later coolers, one being do they have the same curved tube like the original 914/6 cooler?

MB

Posted by: live free & drive Feb 19 2019, 04:45 PM

Martin,

Is your dog ear reinforcing strut fixed in place or removable?

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 19 2019, 05:05 PM

Its welded in. I have it both my race cars. Roger Hamlin of Hamlin Fabrication recommended the brace, to prevent "toe out" during braking. He told me the car twist around back there it will actually change the suspension geometry enough to cause un- commanded direction changes!

He has a shop at Sears Point, and is a good guy to know. Roger was a fabricator on the 1979 Red Roof Inn 935 Team. When he recommended it, little hard to say no. He's been involved with many makes/models and is a wealth of knowledge. One of those guys who doesn't need to advertise.

It has a doubler on the forward inner longitudinal, where its welded and dove tailed/welded to the dog ear. Very simple.

MB


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Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 20 2019, 07:42 PM

More parts arrived today. I was able to fit one of the two lines. I'm dropping the car tomorrow at Mike Tolle's shop to have the hardline finished....really looking forward to hear this thing run again. Also for what it's worth the black and green hose comes from Parker's Transportation catalog. 22 mm or 7/8 inside diameter.

MB


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Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 21 2019, 10:53 AM

Here is the hose for those who may be interested...213-16 is the correct P/N for this application. Its actually an air brake line, but has multiple uses..

MB

https://www.hoseandfittingsetc.com/product/hose/213-hose

Posted by: mb911 Feb 21 2019, 11:33 AM

I like that hose.. Very nice..

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 21 2019, 11:40 AM

Thanks Ben.

This is from the Parker Catalog as well. Same dimensions, no internal steel mesh. Weighs a little less. Every ounce counts right!

P/N 293-16

MB

https://www.hoseandfittingsetc.com/product/hose/293-hose


And the 22MM Steel Braided from NEWCO.

https://newcoproducts.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1435

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 23 2019, 02:22 PM

Picked up the car from Mike last night, here are the final two lines, just have to get them crimped. Finding someone who will crimp these lines is nearly impossible. No one in the city of Sacramento that I've been able to find will do it. The reason being it's a Parker hose and a Cohline fitting. I'm sure liability is the issue. One guy at the Parker dealership explained to me how these two should not even be put together because no specifications exist to get a correct crimp. Hope he's wrong...

MB


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Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 23 2019, 02:27 PM

Here is a shot of the whole mess hanging with lines temporarily connected...so now I will box them up and send them back to Elephant to be crimped. About a week process. While they're out I'm going to flush the oil tank just to make sure there's no junk in it and new filter and oil is waiting...

MB


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Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 23 2019, 04:06 PM

The hose and fittings look beautiful.

Posted by: Martin Baker Feb 23 2019, 05:44 PM

Thanks, I appreciate that. This is no concour car. I don't want it to be, but when I dive it down into turn 11 at Sears Point I just want it to be safe and reliable...

Building the mock up of the front cooler duct. I can see these being a little different from car to car based on how high you install Ben's inlet duct. It places the cooler slightly higher than the factory. Mainly because the cooler is much larger than the factory 906 cooler.

Once the car is running again I'm going to take it back to Mike and he will build the shroud. I'm going to use clip on Nut plates to attach to the car, for access to the cooler.
Also have to weld up the holes in the front trunk where the old oil line passed through...

MB


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Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2020, 08:01 AM

Updating this a bit. I have been working on the car a bit again.. I have been working on solutions that will work with the PMS ot Naroscape mounts as neither of those mounts work with a stock style scavenge line. I decided to use a AN hose but something that looks retro. I may still have these made out of Cohline but for now this is where I am at.

Notice the fire sleeve was spit balling. I am going to use adel clamps so the hose will be in a safe location.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2020, 08:02 AM

Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2020, 08:02 AM

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 10 2020, 11:06 AM

Early 911s went up over the top of trans with a soft line...

Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2020, 11:07 AM

Thats not a bad idea.. Might try that.

Posted by: live free & drive Mar 10 2020, 11:47 AM

There is some good info here: https://www.elephantracing.com/porsche/911/oil-cooling-for-911/oil-lines-hoses/

Even though it's for for 911's the basic principles are there.

Posted by: mb911 Mar 10 2020, 11:49 AM

Thanks.. I have that all figured out.. Just trying to figure out the scavenge so it works for everyone.

Posted by: IronHillRestorations Mar 10 2020, 12:35 PM

On at least two cars I've converted to a 6, I used all flex line and routed the scavenge line toward the rear, then curved it forward to the T-stat/cooler/tank

Posted by: mb911 Mar 11 2020, 08:41 AM

Ran the line over the trans.. Much better. Made a few brackets for the porsche t-stat and made a few connections..

Posted by: Luke M Apr 18 2020, 10:04 AM

Ben this is what I pm'd you about. A set up like this but with the lines running into the front wheel housing then into the trunk.

Posted by: mb911 Apr 18 2020, 11:50 AM

Oops yes it is.

Posted by: dug Oct 16 2021, 09:56 AM

Wondering why you are doing the scavenge line like that when you already make the 914-6 style hard line the goes forward instead?

Posted by: mb911 Oct 16 2021, 10:13 AM

I just was not happy with the clearance around the oil return tubes and the heat exchangers. The OEM one was tight already so I have since abandoned those hard lines. I have some left that I would sell cheap if someone wants them.

The Original early 911s also went over the bell housing.

Posted by: Luke M Oct 16 2021, 10:21 AM

Hi Ben,

My brother will be looking to do the cooler lines soon.
Would you happen to have a kit per say ? He would need everything from the engine to front oil cooler. He already has the oil cooler/housing kit from PMS. He needs the lines now. LMK.

Thanks..

Posted by: mb911 Oct 16 2021, 10:39 AM

I could come up with something. Do you have the cooler?

Posted by: Luke M Oct 16 2021, 11:00 AM

Have the following : Factory 914-6 engine oil cooler, 914-6 3 piece rubber lines, your SS return hard line, and Setrab front oil cooler with 12AN fittings. Also have a 12AN Mocal T-stat.

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 16 2021, 06:00 PM

PM sent on the oil rerun lines

Posted by: pete-stevers Oct 24 2021, 04:23 PM

When this is sorted Ben I would be interested for the set up as well... My last car's frunk set up looked well...kinda budget

Posted by: pencap914 Apr 14 2022, 04:03 PM

Hey Ben,

Question about some of the oil lines if I decide to not go with a Porsche t-stat...

What I have:

-1975 2.7 engine, oem Behr cooler with a 30mm push on fitting
-Your ss hard lines to a front mounted oil cooler
-Your ss hard line from scavenge pump
-Your Aluminum 914/6 oil tank

What I plan to substitute:

-Mocal male 16-AN thermostat, wherever convenient. Likely where the Porsche thermostat would mount. The Mocal units are about half the price of what I can find the Porsche ones for nowadays.

*Edit: Just realized I highlighted the 12AN Mocal unit. I would be buying the 16AN unit...



-What I need:

-All four lines for the Mocal t-stat:
1) SS hardline - ext. oil cooler supply
2) SS hardline - ext. oil cooler return
3) t-stat to oil tank return
4) from scavenge ss hard line to t-stat

-Soft line from oil tank to engine return (push on the behr oil cooler)


I'm wondering if it's worth the trouble to go with the Mocal t-stat since going to/from the SS hard lines to the ext. oil cooler seems like a challenge...

If popped for the OEM Porsche thermostat, would it make life easier to simply order pre-bent and pre sized oil lines?

Posted by: mepstein Apr 14 2022, 05:19 PM

You might want to rethink the 16 AN lines. They are really big, especially for a 2.7. Even a modified one.

Posted by: Luke M Apr 26 2022, 01:12 PM

Hi Ben,

Any updates on this?

Posted by: mb911 Apr 26 2022, 03:17 PM

No not at this time. I do have the patterns but just have not gotten it done. Plus I could not find a consistent source for coolers.