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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:12 PM

This could be a regular event so send John your requests for future workshops!

The man, the legend, our very own 914 metal god...ok so he's a Karman Ghias deviant but we can consider it a close relative to the 914...

Thank you Tony of http://www.tcdesignfab.com/ for hosting this workshop. Your shop is great.


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:14 PM

There were 15 of us plus Tony's crew...


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:18 PM

Otmar first at the English wheel...


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:20 PM

More, some were Lancia/Fiat club members. I got to catch up with my old Lancia Scorpion bro's...


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:25 PM

More


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:26 PM

Jeff trying it out with Mueller overlooking...


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:27 PM

More of the protege's


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:28 PM

Anyone for a salad bowl? Trojan helmet?


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:31 PM

These techniques were used...


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:34 PM

to do these:


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:39 PM

With a few tools, learned techniques, and lot's of time and patience you can form metal to virtually any shape or part you want. Material is cheap and equipment is relatively inexpensive...

Preserve the craft! Start by buying John's http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=24768


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Posted by: dan10101 Jun 12 2005, 11:48 PM

The only class I've been to where the teacher was noiser than the students..

Good Information was shelled out today. Thanks for putting this together.
Dan


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Posted by: SirAndy Jun 12 2005, 11:49 PM

hahahha, thanks for giving me another picture to add to my avatar stash!

you probably need to know Jon in person to understand why i think this is priceless!





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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 12 2005, 11:55 PM

Forgot to mention, only one 914 was present. The Lancia guys didn't even bring their cars...

At least I brought two 914 fenders.

Posted by: jonwatts Jun 13 2005, 12:00 AM

Great, I can see it now: "Droopy Dog Racing Team"

Posted by: jonwatts Jun 13 2005, 12:14 AM

Great workshop, I'll take it again if I get the chance, so much to learn. I envy the guys who live near John that get to be his students for more than a few hours.

A lot of the good advice wasn't even about metalworking techniques directly. Things like, take your time, be patient, never assume your done.

I so much want to annoy my neighbors now with sounds of hammering. For now I'll have to look to Vol II of the DVD.

Thanks for making the trip, John and Carla. And thanks to Tony for providing refreshments.

Posted by: rjkavanagh Jun 13 2005, 08:14 AM

Thanks John, it was great. Can't wait to start pounding on something.

-Rob

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 13 2005, 10:05 AM

It was great. Kelly's a good teacher. I'd always though an English wheel was just a nice to have toy, but it looked nearly indispensible for doing good work quickly.

Next time, the attendants need to throw in to have the host provide lunch. I brought the Krispy Kremes for breakfast (it starting at 9am), but around 1pm, everyone was rifling through nearly empty donut boxes desperate for lunch...

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 13 2005, 11:15 AM

Ok, who want's to do a local group buy on an English Wheel? It's not like one person would need it all the time. Let's talk!

thanks for the KK James!

Posted by: Jakester Jun 13 2005, 11:19 AM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 13 2005, 09:15 AM)

Ok, who want's to do a local group buy on an English Wheel? It's not like one person would need it all the time. Let's talk!

Ballpark quote for one of these, anyone?

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 13 2005, 11:46 AM

The wheels themselves run about $400-500 a set. The frame could be made easily enough (esp. for portability). The clamping yoke would be something of a hurdle. Mssr. Kelly's custom made unit used a surplus Boeing worm drive (probably off a rudder or elevator drive), but those aren't exactly readily available.

I believe they're about a grand fully made for the lowend units, which are only portable if you have 2-3 guys to muscle it in and out of a pickup.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 13 2005, 11:56 AM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 13 2005, 10:15 AM)

Ok, who want's to do a local group buy on an English Wheel? It's not like one person would need it all the time. Let's talk! thanks for the KK James!

not a bad idea.....they sell different kits, I would think the kit with just the wheels would be the most economical and the frame can be put together with scrap material....

Posted by: Porcharu Jun 13 2005, 12:59 PM

I was thinking about Johns e-wheel setup on the way to work, I think it would be pretty easy to make a really portable unit with some minor tweeks to Johns unique design. The most obvious would be to bolt it together so it could be broke down and transported or stored away easily.

I was also thinking now would be a good time to look at a group buy of some nice hammers and shot bags.

It was a great workshop, a lot more can learned in a hands on environment than watching a video - simple things like how much physical work beating a shrink into a piece of scrap of 20g sheet is.

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 13 2005, 12:59 PM

Here's one on http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=109683&item=7522384948&rd=1

Besides fabbing the frame, we'd still need a worm drive under the wheels...

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 13 2005, 01:35 PM

Felix. I was thinking the same thing... I looked at that kit today and wanted to get it....

I will be making some kind of an english wheel to do the fenders with...

This will be quality buddy!!!

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 13 2005, 03:25 PM

Posted by: John Kelly Jun 14 2005, 04:50 PM

Just got home...1800 miles round trip. I had a lot of fun doing the workshop. The interest level, great questions, and feedback I got were amazing. It is very rewarding to have such intense interest in the work. I also learned a few things that will hopefully make the next one better. I must publicly thank Felix for his encouragement, and help in making this happen. I would not have been able to afford the trip without his help. Also Tony at TC Design was very generous supplying the great workspace free of charge, and refreshments to boot! I hope he will get some business from this. And thanks to everyone of the 914club members who came to listen to me blather on. What a great bunch of folks! I participate in half a dozen or so forums, but this one takes the cake. What is it about 914 folks that makes them really interested, and passionate about their cars and what can be done with them? Thanks guys!

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 14 2005, 04:58 PM

QUOTE (John Kelly @ Jun 14 2005, 02:50 PM)

What a great bunch of folks! I participate in half a dozen or so forums, but this one takes the cake. What is it about 914 folks that makes them really interested, and passionate about their cars and what can be done with them? Thanks guys! John www.ghiaspecialties.com

That's easy. Everyone hates our cars but us...

Posted by: redshift Jun 14 2005, 05:40 PM

Someone has code on this page that light up my firewall.


M

Posted by: scotty b Jun 14 2005, 06:23 PM

QUOTE (Neo914 @ Jun 13 2005, 10:59 AM)

Here's one on http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=109683&item=7522384948&rd=1 Besides fabbing the frame, we'd still need a worm drive under the wheels...

The "worm drive" you refer to is typically nothing more than a length of Acme thread. I used a piece from a house jack for my wheel. House jack is approx. $15.00 at Lowes


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Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 14 2005, 07:58 PM

Hard to tell with that packaging...

Let's see some of your work, Scott!

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 14 2005, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (John Kelly @ Jun 14 2005, 02:50 PM)

Just got home...1800 miles round trip. I had a lot of fun doing the workshop. The interest level, great questions, and feedback I got were amazing. It is very rewarding to have such intense interest in the work. I also learned a few things that will hopefully make the next one better. I must publicly thank Felix for his encouragement, and help in making this happen. I would not have been able to afford the trip without his help. Also Tony at TC Design was very generous supplying the great workspace free of charge, and refreshments to boot! I hope he will get some business from this. And thanks to everyone of the 914club members who came to listen to me blather on. What a great bunch of folks! I participate in half a dozen or so forums, but this one takes the cake. What is it about 914 folks that makes them really interested, and passionate about their cars and what can be done with them? Thanks guys! John www.ghiaspecialties.com

John,

You're very welcome! I hope you and Karla had as good a time as we did. My old school thinking has come a long way from "pound it close enough to get within a 1/4" of bondo." More people need to see you work the metal and get their hands it. Who kept this "Metal Shaping" secret for so long? Yes the cost is time and patience but we all need more of that. Keep the craft alive...

I will have the first painted and running 914 with your flares. Don't tell Zack yet.

Posted by: John Kelly Jun 16 2005, 02:19 PM

Put together a quicky album with some more pictures...I'm thinking about 3/4s of the folks there were 914 clubbers:

http://allshops.org/cgi-bin/community/communityalbums.cgi?action=openalbum&albumid=9980196100423

What's this 914guru stuff below my name? Is that because I made it to 500? Can't stand the pressure!

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 16 2005, 02:22 PM

Anyone find a good deal on english wheel stuff? Im gona be needing it by next month...

Andrew

Posted by: Andyrew Jun 16 2005, 03:30 PM

Ok, just did a little research... Heres what I found.. (based on the websites that John presented us with!)

http://metalcrafttools.com/Benchengwheel.html

I think will give us the best deal on all the junk together...

"Industrial Strength" Bench-Model
English Wheel "Kit" consists of:
Upper Yoke $35.00
Lower Yoke $60.00
Upper wheel & axle $95.00
Tube Shaft Assy/w kick wheel $60.00
4 Lower anvils w/bearings & axles $300.00
TOTAL $550.00*
S&H additional
This includes plans to construct the frame,
but does not include any frame material. "

This would give us a huge start and basically will get rid of all the hard parts. 550 seems to be a very good price for all those items, but maybe someone contacting the buisness asking for a group buy? I dont know if we could get more than 5 people interested though.

Metal stock would be another $100.... at least.

What do you guys think?

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 16 2005, 04:26 PM

I'm in for part of the costs. Anyone else?

Posted by: John Kelly Jun 16 2005, 05:28 PM

Just a couple of thoughts..the link above for the benchtop wheel goes to a great company that has been around for a long time. Another is: www.imperialwheelingmachines.com check out the parts he sells for do-it-yourselfers including parts to adjust the pressure between the wheels.

I like a 3" wide upper and lower wheels unless you are making small parts, then 2" wide is fine. The rectangular frame I brought to the workshop is the easiest english wheel frame to make. If I made another that was meant to be non-portable, I would make it it taller for more clearance inside the frame, and make the cradles turn 90 degrees for smoothing unusual panels without clearance problems. To save money, I would suggest getting fewer of the best quality lower anvil wheels you can get. One or two of the lowest crown wheels can do a lot of great smoothing, or you could skip over the number two...get a #1 and a #3 for a little more flexibilty. The best lower anvils have a flat spot in the middle with the sides sloping away for clearance and support of the panel...wider flats for the lower crown wheels and thinner as they get a higher crown in them.

A lot more information available at: www.metalshapers.org www.metalmeet.com

John www.ghiaspecialties.com

Posted by: Jakester Jun 16 2005, 05:39 PM

I might be in for costs if we could consider planting this thing (at least part of the time) at the shop former known as "Brad Robert's space" in Redwood City. That is assuming, of course, that the shop deal ends up working out, which is still up in the air.

I didn't attend JK's workshop and am completely unfamiliar with metalshaping as an art form. Is this tool something that is considered "precision"? or does it fall on the other end of the spectrum as "gorilla-proof"? I'm wondering if it can be easily damaged and so a shop setting might not be best for the longevity of the tool?

Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 16 2005, 06:54 PM

QUOTE (Jakester @ Jun 16 2005, 03:39 PM)

I might be in for costs if we could consider planting this thing (at least part of the time) at the shop former known as "Brad Robert's space" in Redwood City. That is assuming, of course, that the shop deal ends up working out, which is still up in the air. I didn't attend JK's workshop and am completely unfamiliar with metalshaping as an art form. Is this tool something that is considered "precision"? or does it fall on the other end of the spectrum as "gorilla-proof"? I'm wondering if it can be easily damaged and so a shop setting might not be best for the longevity of the tool?

I think someone could reserve it for a month or two and transport it in a truck or large trunk depending on how it disassembled.

I'd worry about damaging other things or digits in the shop If the wheel did get damaged it would mark on the sheet metal...It is tough and simple.

If you haven't already, invest in John's DVD and wait for his next one released this summer.

Posted by: Mueller Jun 16 2005, 07:25 PM

I'm going to have to pass on getting in on a group purchase right now...got "other" things to buy


so I was thinking...if one wanted to make a homebuilt unit and not worry too much about the life of the upper wheel, a /4 front brake hub could be used if one removed the rotor section, just polish it up nice....at least one bottom anvil could be made from a used rear wheel bearing