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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Widebody LS6 rebuild.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 5 2018, 04:15 PM

I'm back in the 914 world after more than 35 years!

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

I am the lucky winner of The car known as the Screamcicle and probably several other names.

It was originally built by Bill who frequented this forum.
Then bought by Paul who also was a 914 world member improved and refined this 550hp monster.

Unfortunate events left the front end damaged and in need of extensive repair.

Paul didn't want the car parted out, rather he wanted it to be purchased by someone who would bring it back to it's most recent glorious state.

Enter me... I had just sold my hit rod El Camino and finally the timing was right. Andrew sent me a note as he knew I was looking for a project. And a Hot rod 914 fit the profile. A lightweight classic car that could be autocrossed, track driven, and maybe a trip to taco Bell.

My previous 914 was a 1971 1.7 with Monza exhaust, Weber carbs, and Rivera wheels. This will be a big change. Fortunately I will have been buffered into the outlaw world by Andyrew's build over the last 15+ years. Quite excited to have Son/Father outlaw widebodys.

Many of you know that the car was on the east coast and I live on the west coast. It was picked up yesterday but the transportation company. Paul was a great help accommodateing the driver and reassuring that it would tranport just fine. I wish this company had tracking but at least this way I won't be watching it's every move as I wait the 7-10 days going coast to coast.

If you see a white 914 on a red auto transport truck. Please let me know!

I'll ad to this thread more later,. But here's a teaser picture.


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Posted by: Mueller Jul 5 2018, 04:17 PM

Congrats!

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 5 2018, 04:22 PM

Thanks Mike,. It'll be a challenge and I'll need help , but it'll get done.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 5 2018, 04:55 PM

Saw this car at Hershey a few years ago. Hell of a nice car.

Congrats!

smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: burton73 Jul 5 2018, 04:59 PM

TORQUE-o-holic this car is.

Happy you got it

Enjoy the journey. Please keep us posted on the rebuild of it.

Bob B
welder.gif first.gif driving-girl.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 5 2018, 05:15 PM

That's great that you've got this monster in your hands now! And welcome back... Andrew and I talked a little over 3 years ago about our projects at the 2015 WCR. He's finished his while I went through some major setbacks but I'm still working on it. It'll be good to see your progress and will be a boost to my motivation as well. I'm looking forward to seeing these father/son Outlaws at the next WCR if that's what your goal is - She's in great hands! popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 5 2018, 06:28 PM

Bill and I ran down to the Rocket City Ramble. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 5 2018, 07:06 PM

Hi Dan, congrats...this will be a great project. Is this a real 1974 LE car? Please post or PM me the VIN.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 5 2018, 07:26 PM

Great project, that is one seriously cool car.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 5 2018, 07:28 PM

Clay,. Thanks,. That was one of my decision factors,. A lot of people saw it and liked it enough to give a people's award.

Bob, thanks, I will be posting updates.

MGP. Andrew and I will motivate each other as well. I definitely want to park / drive these side by side.

Rick,. I was reading the old posts and saw that. I d
Had and will have lots of time to do research.

Jeff. I think they are calling it a tribute car, but I'll get you the VIN anyways.


One more picture of what it looked like in it's prime then we'll get to the current situation.

Attached Image

Posted by: campbellcj Jul 5 2018, 08:09 PM

Cool looking car - must be fairly frightening with that power/weight. Congrats and looking forward to your repair/build updates.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 5 2018, 08:21 PM

Here's a pic of Paul at the Meadowlands in 2011 on the day we co-drove the car in an autocross, right after Hershey I think.
I made some changes to the suspension for Paul based on the experience.
Attached Image

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jul 5 2018, 08:37 PM

Congratulations Dan. That is a terrific car ad I look forward to seeing it repaired and back on the road. beerchug.gif

Posted by: JRust Jul 5 2018, 10:14 PM

Holy cow Dan! You are coming back in style my friend. That car is Bad ass. I hope you put it back just like it was. I LOVE the look of that car. Then the build is just awesome. Plus your even close enough for me to come check it out sometime. Can't wait to see your progress

Posted by: Edward Blume Jul 5 2018, 11:02 PM

Congrats! aktion035.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 5 2018, 11:10 PM

Thanks guys .
Jamie and all, the plan is to go back with the Sheridan bodywork.
Andrew and I just spent some time taking measurements. I'll be able to see how far off the white one is compared to his orange one. Its far from exact but it will give me some idea.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 5 2018, 11:12 PM

Chris,
Thanks for.the picture. I might try my had drifting

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 5 2018, 11:55 PM

To say I am excited is an understatement piratenanner.gif


We have been strategizing this for a while now and have a decent plan of attack. I'll let Dad post on that but how he does the repair will be VERY interesting to watch. Unfortunately I wont be able to help much due to location...

This is going to be a VERY long couple weeks waiting for it to show up sad.gif

Im already bench racing in my head... Loosing.... But still bench racing smile.gif

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 6 2018, 05:06 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 6 2018, 01:12 AM) *

Chris,
Thanks for.the picture. I might try my had drifting

That day the car was way too loose, even for drifting.
He did a full 360, smoking the tires while trying to get the car going in the right direction again, after a spin on-course.
#fail
biggrin.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 6 2018, 07:05 AM

Sounds like the next Workshop Day should be at Dan's? shades.gif

Looking forward to watching. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 6 2018, 09:04 AM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jul 6 2018, 04:06 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 6 2018, 01:12 AM) *

Chris,
Thanks for.the picture. I might try my had drifting

That day the car was way too loose, even for drifting.
He did a full 360, smoking the tires while trying to get the car going in the right direction again, after a spin on-course.
#fail
biggrin.gif


I've been there before felt the smiles and the frowns
sunglasses.gif confused24.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 6 2018, 09:07 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 6 2018, 06:05 AM) *

Sounds like the next Workshop Day should be at Dan's? shades.gif

Looking forward to watching. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help out.


Build partyat my house!
You bring all the tools I'll supply the mess. aktion035.gif


Posted by: burton73 Jul 6 2018, 03:05 PM

What is your take on how to redo your car?

Transplant all the goodies in a new body or get a body shop to rework the body on this one?

Or are you a guy with mad skill sets like we have seen here?



Bob B
sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif idea.gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 6 2018, 07:08 PM

type.gif type.gif type.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif hissyfit.gif type.gif idea.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif beer.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif w00t.gif smilie_pokal.gif sunglasses.gif wub.gif flag.gif driving.gif


That's my guess to how it's actually going to go down smile.gif

Posted by: Philip W. Jul 6 2018, 08:02 PM

i think i saw this car at okteenerfest 4 years ago in Townsend TN, and he lost the clutch on the first day! headbang.gif
really nice to see it reacquired by someone who can get her back on the road! good luck with the restoration/rehab.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 6 2018, 09:16 PM

Are there pics from the front?
A thread I missed?
Is Paul OK?
I hope the magic gas can survived!!!

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 6 2018, 10:47 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Jul 6 2018, 08:16 PM) *

Are there pics from the front?
A thread I missed?
Is Paul OK?
I hope the magic gas can survived!!!

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=327081

Here you go smile.gif

Posted by: 914-300Hemi Jul 6 2018, 11:12 PM

Congrats on a great looking car. Looks like a fun project.

Posted by: 9144me2enjoy Jul 6 2018, 11:37 PM

Congratsulations on your purchase, I had just PM the previous owner about buying the engine, my loss I should of just bought the car! IF you loose interest in the rebuild let me know, I would love to take it off your hands! driving.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 7 2018, 12:06 AM

QUOTE(9144me2enjoy @ Jul 6 2018, 10:37 PM) *

Congratsulations on your purchase, I had just PM the previous owner about buying the engine, my loss I should of just bought the car! IF you loose interest in the rebuild let me know, I would love to take it off your hands! driving.gif


Thanks for the offer.
It's not likely that I would loose interest in my dream car. I've wanted one since Hot Rod Magazine did an article on Rod Simpsons red V8.

Yes I'll have earn it, so to speak, but all the better to earn a piece of it. This will make it back on the road.

You're pretty close to me relatively speaking. I'm in Eagle Point.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 7 2018, 12:11 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 6 2018, 06:08 PM) *

type.gif type.gif type.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif hissyfit.gif type.gif idea.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif beer.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif w00t.gif smilie_pokal.gif sunglasses.gif wub.gif flag.gif driving.gif


That's my guess to how it's actually going to go down smile.gif


Yep pretty much. I need to get my hands on it to put a plan together. I'm toying with a couple options. I'll post more pictures next week.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 7 2018, 01:10 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 6 2018, 07:08 PM) *

type.gif type.gif type.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif hissyfit.gif type.gif idea.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif beer.gif sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif w00t.gif smilie_pokal.gif sunglasses.gif wub.gif flag.gif driving.gif


That's my guess to how it's actually going to go down smile.gif

Sounds familiar!! lol-2.gif

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 7 2018, 02:44 PM

I remember standing next to this car when it was on a chassis dyno up the street from my shop right after a camshaft change (to de-tune it slightly) and new crank/rod bearings.
I watched the 180mph speedo get buried with the left rear wheel no more than 2 feet from my right leg.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 7 2018, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jul 7 2018, 01:44 PM) *

I remember standing next to this car when it was on a chassis dyno up the street from my shop right after a camshaft change (to de-tune it slightly) and new crank/rod bearings.
I watched the 180mph speedo get buried with the left rear wheel no more than 2 feet from my right leg.


That's crazy. Do you remember any numbers?

I've been trying to figure out which cam is in it.
It looks like a combination of 2 profiles.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 7 2018, 06:50 PM

Here's a teaser of the current condition. Yes Paul is ok. Probably a bit heartbroken I know I was when I did similar work to my BMW.
The 914 sustained front end damage. But fortunately the really important stuff is fine. Even the radiator looks ok.

I'll post more when it's in my hands. Keep a look out for a red truck car carrier doing the cross country bit. Let me know if you see it!

Attached Image

Posted by: Racer Chris Jul 8 2018, 12:53 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 7 2018, 07:50 PM) *


That's crazy. Do you remember any numbers?

I've been trying to figure out which cam is in it.
It looks like a combination of 2 profiles.

I want to say 425 at the wheels but that's not a certain memory. I don't think I have the dyno graph in my records.
The cam was ground for 1.8 ratio lifters IIRC, which were supplied with the camshaft. I don't remember the cam mfr & p/n but it was more conservative than the one Bill built the engine with.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 8 2018, 07:11 PM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jul 8 2018, 11:53 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 7 2018, 07:50 PM) *


That's crazy. Do you remember any numbers?

I've been trying to figure out which cam is in it.
It looks like a combination of 2 profiles.

I want to say 425 at the wheels but that's not a certain memory. I don't think I have the dyno graph in my records.
The cam was ground for 1.8 ratio lifters IIRC, which were supplied with the camshaft. I don't remember the cam mfr & p/n but it was more conservative than the one Bill built the engine with.


That actually sounds pretty good. Thank

Posted by: whitetwinturbo Jul 9 2018, 08:16 PM

happy11.gif happy11.gif happy11.gif ............ looks like it might by fast stirthepot.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 9 2018, 10:57 PM

QUOTE(whitetwinturbo @ Jul 9 2018, 07:16 PM) *

happy11.gif happy11.gif happy11.gif ............ looks like it might by fast stirthepot.gif


well, maybe. At least fast enough for me... driving.gif

Posted by: 9144me2enjoy Jul 10 2018, 06:44 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 7 2018, 01:06 AM) *

QUOTE(9144me2enjoy @ Jul 6 2018, 10:37 PM) *

Congratsulations on your purchase, I had just PM the previous owner about buying the engine, my loss I should of just bought the car! IF you loose interest in the rebuild let me know, I would love to take it off your hands! driving.gif


Thanks for the offer.
It's not likely that I would loose interest in my dream car. I've wanted one since Hot Rod Magazine did an article on Rod Simpsons red V8.

Yes I'll have earn it, so to speak, but all the better to earn a piece of it. This will make it back on the road.

You're pretty close to me relatively speaking. I'm in Eagle Point.


Dan wishing you the best on the rebuild, its your dream now! Live it, treasure it, enjoy it! Beautiful car, hope to cross paths down the road. Roy

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 18 2018, 12:26 AM

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

It's HERE!!
longest 13 days of my life...




Posted by: dan10101 Jul 18 2018, 12:28 AM

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

It's HERE!!
longest 13 days of my life...




Posted by: bulitt Jul 18 2018, 02:54 AM

Thanks for saving this car!

Here is the link to Bills Thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40674&st=0

And you can search for his other threads...

11.2 in the Qtr mile...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87867&hl=

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 18 2018, 12:33 PM

QUOTE(bulitt @ Jul 18 2018, 01:54 AM) *

Thanks for saving this car!

Here is the link to Bills Thread...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=40674&st=0

And you can search for his other threads...

11.2 in the Qtr mile...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87867&hl=


EDIT. Somehow I missed that first thread. And it's always fun to read the 2nd. THANKS

I have. Thanks.
I needed to fill up 2 weeks of time.. smile.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 18 2018, 06:56 PM

Well, I removed the torqued fiberglass front trunk lid and turned up the torsion bar on the drivers side which was completely backed off and suddenly it's not looking too bad. I think at this point it's actually driveable. Ok, maybe not very far... Yes, I'll need some sheet metal around the drivers A pillar that took a nice solid tree, and maybe some around the passenger headlight that got pushed down by another tree.

Big beefy brake calipers and rotors. Sway bar looks great, LCA are probably bent, but not much else underneath except for sheetmetal. I need to get it up on the rack to know for sure.

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Posted by: JRust Jul 18 2018, 07:46 PM

So cool! Glad to see it made it okay. Always a worry with transport. Especially when it get's moved rig to rig a few times. Congrats on getting it finally. Now the fun really begins. Can't wait to see it come together Dan. As soon as my car is on the road I've got to come down to see it drooley.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 18 2018, 07:49 PM

QUOTE(JRust @ Jul 18 2018, 06:46 PM) *

So cool! Glad to see it made it okay. Always a worry with transport. Especially when it get's moved rig to rig a few times. Congrats on getting it finally. Now the fun really begins. Can't wait to see it come together Dan. As soon as my car is on the road I've got to come down to see it drooley.gif


I was hoping to have something to show you when you were cruising by. Give me a holler next time your in the vicinity. We also provide B&B for our weary traveling friends. smile.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 18 2018, 11:40 PM

Good candidate for getting a portapower.

Do you have a stud gun? I have your slide hammer here.

Do you have some heavy duty trees you can pull around or maybe build some pyramid structures out of heavy duty steel and bolt to the ground for anchor points for pulling the chassis out?

I have ideas we need to discuss smile.gif

Pieces you 100% need:

Front hood (Fiberglass)
Front end (Sheridan, Do you have this on order?)
930 control arms (Or possibly 914 control arms with 914 torsion bars? http://914world.com/bbs2/lofiversion/index.php?t162853.html )
Driver side A pillar section.
Drivers side headlight bucket



Posted by: dan10101 Jul 19 2018, 12:07 AM


I placed my order in the 914 store. We'll see who can fill it, cheap...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=331775

The boss and I negotiated for a Sheridan order. I'm only holding off because I don't have anywhere to store it. I gotta get that BMW stripped and crushed.

I had some ideas for bending sheet metal. I have no shortage of trees, but I also was thinking we could use the lift. Either the posts for side to side or the arms for up and down. Maybe put some anchors in the concrete and reinforce the Ibeams for the lift a bit more solid. I think the bending might be minimal once the items that are heavily bent are replaced. (or just before they are replaced..) The measurements we took of Andrews car are pretty close other than the A-pillar pushed in and the passenger headlight bucket pushed down a couple inches. It's all fixable with flat sheet metal, but easier with some cheap (did I say cheap) replacement panels.


Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 19 2018, 05:46 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 19 2018, 01:07 AM) *

I placed my order in the 914 store. We'll see who can fill it, cheap...
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=331775

The boss and I negotiated for a Sheridan order. I'm only holding off because I don't have anywhere to store it. I gotta get that BMW stripped and crushed.

I had some ideas for bending sheet metal. I have no shortage of trees, but I also was thinking we could use the lift. Either the posts for side to side or the arms for up and down. Maybe put some anchors in the concrete and reinforce the Ibeams for the lift a bit more solid. I think the bending might be minimal once the items that are heavily bent are replaced. (or just before they are replaced..) The measurements we took of Andrews car are pretty close other than the A-pillar pushed in and the passenger headlight bucket pushed down a couple inches. It's all fixable with flat sheet metal, but easier with some cheap (did I say cheap) replacement panels.


I would not use the lift. It was designed with the stresses setup to support a car up in the air. Putting side loads on it changes the direction of the stress, possibly weakening it for holding a car up. Personally, I wouldn't get under a car on a lift that had been used like that.

I have pulled cars out using trees before. When my nephew got hit in his Datsun 510 years ago, I pulled it out by strapping it between 2 very large Oak trees and using a come along to pull the B-pillar out. That and 2 new doors got it back on the road.

Posted by: tygaboy Jul 19 2018, 07:20 AM

Dan -
Two words:

"tube chassis"

happy11.gif poke.gif shades.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 19 2018, 07:41 AM

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jul 19 2018, 04:46 AM) *


I would not use the lift. It was designed with the stresses setup to support a car up in the air. Putting side loads on it changes the direction of the stress, possibly weakening it for holding a car up. Personally, I wouldn't get under a car on a lift that had been used like that.

I have pulled cars out using trees before. When my nephew got hit in his Datsun 510 years ago, I pulled it out by strapping it between 2 very large Oak trees and using a come along to pull the B-pillar out. That and 2 new doors got it back on the road.


Thanks Clay.
I really don't think a lot of bending will be needed once I replace the majorly bent pieces. The rest of the numbers are really close to Andrews measurements for the most part. less than 1/2" or so. I think before I spend a lot of time on how I will bend it, i need to figure out where I need to bend it.

I'll look for the trees that might do that. I might have a few that will do. Plus a Jeep with a 9000 lb winch doubled would be 18000. That should rip it apart if the button got stuck...


Posted by: dan10101 Jul 19 2018, 07:43 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Jul 19 2018, 06:20 AM) *

Dan -
Two words:

"tube chassis"

happy11.gif poke.gif shades.gif


This is our fallback. But actually. It's just not bad enough to warrant..

I know, you just want to come up here and build me a tube frame.. welder.gif

Posted by: ValcoOscar Jul 19 2018, 08:56 AM

Dan-

I met you at Tygaboys Fab day....

I was pleased to learn this past weekend that you brought this beast to the West Coast. piratenanner.gif

Once done, you and Andrew will have two of the nicest wide body 914's (w/engine swaps) around.

I'm looking forward to seeing them together in the future.

creamsicle914.jpg red914.jpg

Oscar

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 19 2018, 06:41 PM

QUOTE(ValcoOscar @ Jul 19 2018, 07:56 AM) *

Dan-

I met you at Tygaboys Fab day....

I was pleased to learn this past weekend that you brought this beast to the West Coast. piratenanner.gif

Once done, you and Andrew will have two of the nicest wide body 914's (w/engine swaps) around.

I'm looking forward to seeing them together in the future.

creamsicle914.jpg red914.jpg

Oscar



I'm sorry I couldn't be at the BBQ, but you know it was because I was expecting any day... I enjoy your stories!
In case you can't tell, we're both pretty stoked about the whole idea.



Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 12:09 AM

I couldn't help myself, I had to take it for a quick little driveway action.

piratenanner.gif driving.gif piratenanner.gif

https://youtu.be/49nYweHKv28

Should be lots of fun...

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 20 2018, 10:05 AM

driving.gif

You can embed videos from youtube as noted below

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=97052

Posted by: JRust Jul 20 2018, 10:14 AM

piratenanner.gif Awesome

Posted by: burton73 Jul 20 2018, 12:50 PM

Who says you cannot buy a thrill?

Laying a little rubber in a 914 V8 is great fun and you do not need to break any speed laws.

How is the radiator? No leaks?

Have fun.

Bob B
piratenanner.gif

Posted by: sb914 Jul 20 2018, 12:55 PM

Do I hear a knock?

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 20 2018, 02:08 PM

QUOTE(sb914 @ Jul 20 2018, 11:55 AM) *

Do I hear a knock?



To external for a rod knock. Sounds more like an exhaust leak. And it doesnt make that sound when on throttle.

There is however definitely valvetrain noise, but it hasnt been warmed up in a year so the lifters could need to get pumped up.


I think the engine just needs an Italian tune up smile.gif

Posted by: burton73 Jul 20 2018, 02:35 PM

I ended up getting some Liqui-Moly oil flush and giving this italian tune up a try - I went for about 10 minutes on the highway at 4000RPM, red-lined it a few times, brought her back, flushed the oil, and the problem was fixed. No more lifter tick.

I had to look it up. Never heard of one. I thought it may be an age thing. My age not the car



Bob B

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Jul 20 2018, 01:35 PM) *

I ended up getting some Liqui-Moly oil flush and giving this italian tune up a try - I went for about 10 minutes on the highway at 4000RPM, red-lined it a few times, brought her back, flushed the oil, and the problem was fixed. No more lifter tick.

I had to look it up. Never heard of one. I thought it may be an age thing. My age not the car



Bob B


Rislone is my oil additive of choice. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
No rod knock that I could hear. It's loading up on one cylinder like a dirty injector maybe more than one. Floor it and all that goes away. It's a mighty stallion and they get finicky at times. I'll throw some chemicals at it and see how it does.

But first... anyone have some sheet metal to sell?

Oh, the radiator seems fine, just crooked in it's mounting.




Posted by: sb914 Jul 20 2018, 04:01 PM

Dan!! What a lucky man!! wub.gif that car! Can't wait to see it fixed.
Spray that monster "black on black" Andrew . Black out Everything!! Gold Fuchs! piratenanner.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 04:09 PM

QUOTE(sb914 @ Jul 20 2018, 03:01 PM) *

Dan!! What a lucky man!! wub.gif that car! Can't wait to see it fixed.
Spray that monster "black on black" Andrew . Black out Everything!! Gold Fuchs! piratenanner.gif



Thanks, but Not a chance! I cant keep things clean.. Black would kill me.

Now RED, that's a color...

Posted by: sb914 Jul 20 2018, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 20 2018, 03:09 PM) *

QUOTE(sb914 @ Jul 20 2018, 03:01 PM) *

Dan!! What a lucky man!! wub.gif that car! Can't wait to see it fixed.
Spray that monster "black on black" Andrew . Black out Everything!! Gold Fuchs! piratenanner.gif



Thanks, but Not a chance! I cant keep things clean.. Black would kill me.

Now RED, that's a color...

agree.gif Well,red is the fastest color!

Posted by: My 914 Jul 20 2018, 05:32 PM

agree.gif as well.

yellow would be my second choice

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 20 2018, 08:46 PM

I would repaint it the same as it is now.

I LIKE the SCREAMSICLE name. If you repainted it, you couldn't use that name.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 10:19 PM

I have a problem with Orange. But maybe a cherry flavored creamsicle
It would be a Blood Red Screamsicle...

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Posted by: Andyrew Jul 20 2018, 10:31 PM

I like the Cherry red! Obviously prefer the orange, but still.

Maybe a 914 specific Malga red? IPB Image


Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 20 2018, 10:32 PM

I have a partial front clip you can have. I sawsalled it from the VIN tag forward. Includes front half of fenders and headlight buckets. A little rust here and there but free if you want it.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 10:38 PM

Sure Mike, that will solve most of my problems.
i'd even make a donation to your beverage fund. smile.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 20 2018, 10:40 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 20 2018, 09:32 PM) *

I have a partial front clip you can have. I sawsalled it from the VIN tag forward. Includes front half of fenders and headlight buckets. A little rust here and there but free if you want it.

cheer.gif



Now it makes sense to take the truck down, Save shipping and crating for the Sheridan front end, and get this front clip at the same time.

Winner Winner!

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 20 2018, 11:04 PM

I prefer Gin. beerchug.gif

Just give me a heads up when you're on the way. It's sitting on the side of the house ready to go.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 20 2018, 11:39 PM

Mike, The wheels are turning, but just not on the truck yet. It might be a couple weeks. We have other things that need attention down in Ca.

Gin is certainly doable. drunk.gif


Posted by: bulitt Jul 21 2018, 06:13 AM

Some Reds from different manufacturers-

2006 Mustang Red (left) 2016 Stingray Red (right)

IPB Image

2003- Corvette Magnetic Red

IPB Image

2008 Viper Venom Red

Attached Image

Hard to get good pics of cars with high metallic paint...They really pop in the sunlight.


Posted by: dan10101 Jul 21 2018, 08:45 AM

QUOTE(bulitt @ Jul 21 2018, 05:13 AM) *

Some Reds from different manufacturers-

2006 Mustang Red (left) 2016 Stingray Red (right)

IPB Image

2003- Corvette Magnetic Red

IPB Image

2008 Viper Venom Red

Attached Image

Hard to get good pics of cars with high metallic paint...They really pop in the sunlight.

piratenanner.gif aktion035.gif pray.gif smilie_pokal.gif sunglasses.gif

Posted by: My 914 Jul 21 2018, 10:31 AM

In some of the old posts, the car also looked great when it was all white.

Posted by: sb914 Jul 21 2018, 11:48 AM

QUOTE(My 914 @ Jul 21 2018, 09:31 AM) *

In some of the old posts, the car also looked great when it was all white.

That car would like great in any color!

Posted by: Rand Jul 21 2018, 12:17 PM

Because of the history of this car, it would be cool to keep the same paint scheme. Changing the orange to any color Dan wants would still work and honor that. So stoked to see this car in good hands.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 21 2018, 12:39 PM

So this is it in Red.
I like the Semi Metallic above, but I'm not that kind of painter. It will depend on budget.

The good news is my Wife is onboard. She wants it to be nice too.
The conversation went like this...

He: It costs about 600 for the hood.
But I can fix this one."
She: "well, we want it to look good..."
He: "oh my heart, this is the big one"
She: "that's just not your forte"

Attached Image

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 21 2018, 12:47 PM

That red one is another LS swap smile.gif I'm pretty sure it has a boxster 6 speed in it.

I would reconsider painting it red smile.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 21 2018, 01:07 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 21 2018, 11:47 AM) *

That red one is another LS swap smile.gif I'm pretty sure it has a boxster 6 speed in it.

I would reconsider painting it red smile.gif


well right now everything is going thru my mind. So I'll be reconsidering just about everything. dry.gif

Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 21 2018, 01:50 PM

Andrew, I didn't realize due to the cryptic screen name that this was your dad. This should go back to looking just the way it was. Red or orange, doesn't matter. That car is insane!

Posted by: ValcoOscar Jul 21 2018, 02:01 PM

Father like son...they love their HP.

Watching this rebuild closely. popcorn[1].gif

piratenanner.gif




Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 21 2018, 04:33 PM

vw paint


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jul 21 2018, 05:51 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Jul 21 2018, 03:33 PM) *

vw paint


My '73 is Tornado, and Tornado can look great—but for this car I would be sorely tempted to do Salsa Red from the (second?) New Beetle (also seen on Golfs and Jettas of the late 2000s and early 2010s, I think). Just a great, great red. Slightly darker/blood red that shreds Porsche's Carmine Red and GTS Red (as well as Ferrari's various darker reds). Every time I see one across the freeway, I stare. It registers as a red but an intensely rich one.

Love the idea of this car reincarnated in red. And that bodywork will definitely lend itself to red paint. I suspect Ultraviolet from the 991.1 GT3 RS might also be great, as would Aubergine. Not sure why, but there you go...

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 21 2018, 05:58 PM

I like lots of reds, I've had a few.

I particularly like this red, Victory Red a 2000s Corvette color.

https://youtu.be/p0WGnZveino

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 21 2018, 09:32 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 21 2018, 12:47 PM) *

That red one is another LS swap smile.gif I'm pretty sure it has a boxster 6 speed in it.

I would reconsider painting it red smile.gif

Isn't that Christian Harra's car in Colorado? That thing is a monster! drooley.gif

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 21 2018, 11:31 PM

QUOTE(mgp4591 @ Jul 21 2018, 08:32 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Jul 21 2018, 12:47 PM) *

That red one is another LS swap smile.gif I'm pretty sure it has a boxster 6 speed in it.

I would reconsider painting it red smile.gif

Isn't that Christian Harra's car in Colorado? That thing is a monster! drooley.gif


Thats the one. I forgot what his name is.

Im pretty sure he's on here, but I know he's on the Facebook groups.

Posted by: 7275914911 Jul 22 2018, 07:54 AM

Attached Image

Attached Image

A few pic's from RCR '08. Hate to see Matty and Pauly leave the scene! Fuckin A, you can hand me that Gas Can!!
Good Luck with the Beast...

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 08:37 AM

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif

Posted by: 7275914911 Jul 22 2018, 08:49 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 08:37 AM) *

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif


confused24.gif Only the previous owner knows the answer to that...LOL
I probably have an action pic from Hershey somewhere with that Red Can!! icon8.gif

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 22 2018, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 09:37 AM) *

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif



I don't know... but Betty seemed to like it when she tried it. beer3.gif

Posted by: My 914 Jul 22 2018, 11:47 AM

There it is in all white. Looks awesome!

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 02:01 PM

QUOTE(7275914911 @ Jul 22 2018, 07:49 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 08:37 AM) *

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif


confused24.gif Only the previous owner knows the answer to that...LOL
I probably have an action pic from Hershey somewhere with that Red Can!! icon8.gif



Let's see if this works... found this on a Hersey thread.
well, I guess you can't add attachments from other threads..
Just trying to save disk space Andy..

Attached Image

Posted by: JRust Jul 22 2018, 02:25 PM

I vote for Phoenix Red

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 03:12 PM

QUOTE(JRust @ Jul 22 2018, 01:25 PM) *

I vote for Phoenix Red


That's like "Soylent Green is PEOPLE!"

"Phoenix Red is ORANGE!" said everyone everywhere.

Posted by: sb914 Jul 22 2018, 03:35 PM

Here you go! Kinda like the red Ford Flex! if you seen one they
Really "Pop"in the sunlight.the pic does not due justice!


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 22 2018, 04:22 PM

My new vote is for drug dealer green metal flake. Heavy 1070's disco speed boat metal flake.

You will be unique and the only 914 ever painted this color. piratenanner.gif

Hell, put some 26" dubs on it too! aktion035.gif

Attached Image

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 03:22 PM) *

My new vote is for drug dealer green metal flake. Heavy 1070's disco speed boat metal flake.

You will be unique and the only 914 ever painted this color. piratenanner.gif

Hell, put some 26" dubs on it too! aktion035.gif

Attached Image


Mike, I like you, but I sense that you've gone off on the whole what color will it be discussion. Did you imbibe in some gin and tonics early this afternoon?

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 22 2018, 05:48 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 02:12 PM) *

QUOTE(JRust @ Jul 22 2018, 01:25 PM) *

I vote for Phoenix Red


That's like "Soylent Green is PEOPLE!"

"Phoenix Red is ORANGE!" said everyone everywhere.

It also happens to be the same color as my car. Or well at least what my Vin says it is (it's actually painted Hugger Orange)

For some reason dad has something against Orange for his cars and has this affinity towards RED.

So Dad, let's see what's been occupying your time and what the 914 is replacing? I know your just about to start working on it.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 22 2018, 07:33 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 04:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 03:22 PM) *

My new vote is for drug dealer green metal flake. Heavy 1070's disco speed boat metal flake.

You will be unique and the only 914 ever painted this color. piratenanner.gif

Hell, put some 26" dubs on it too! aktion035.gif

Attached Image


Mike, I like you, but I sense that you've gone off on the whole what color will it be discussion. Did you imbibe in some gin and tonics early this afternoon?

Actually, margaritas... first.gif

I get it. You're afraid if you go heavy metallic green you will get profiled as the old man king pin of the cartel. I understand... biggrin.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 09:12 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 06:33 PM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 04:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 03:22 PM) *

My new vote is for drug dealer green metal flake. Heavy 1070's disco speed boat metal flake.

You will be unique and the only 914 ever painted this color. piratenanner.gif

Hell, put some 26" dubs on it too! aktion035.gif

Attached Image


Mike, I like you, but I sense that you've gone off on the whole what color will it be discussion. Did you imbibe in some gin and tonics early this afternoon?

Actually, margaritas... first.gif

I get it. You're afraid if you go heavy metallic green you will get profiled as the old man king pin of the cartel. I understand... biggrin.gif


I'm probably the only person in the Rogue valley that isn't using his 4 acres growing weed. Well, i grow weeds, but not Weed.


Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 09:20 PM

Ok here's the video you've all been waiting for. Well, a couple of you, ...at least one of you....

I finally got the BMW off the rack so i could put the Porsche on it and check it out from underneath.
https://youtu.be/5pAHh21VGpw


To answer Andrews question.
I'm replacing a 2001 BMW 330ci that once looked like this.
Attached Image

and now looks like this after going flipity flopety...
Attached Image


Posted by: Rand Jul 22 2018, 10:06 PM

Just another opinion that's worth nothing, but to keep this true to the OG and put your touch on it... Keep the paint scheme and replace the highlights with YOUR color. Don't do a full color change.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 22 2018, 10:39 PM

Looking at the video. You should buy a new tub. It will be cheaper in the long run just to transfer the drivetrain over. Look like you may need to replace from the doors forward.

Cheaper and faster to transfer everything into a good body.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 10:56 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 09:39 PM) *

Looking at the video. You should buy a new tub. It will be cheaper in the long run just to transfer the drivetrain over. Look like you may need to replace from the doors forward.

Cheaper and faster to transfer everything into a good body.



Unfortunately, this is on a budget that is likely to double before I even get started. The rear fenders are bonded to the tub. It would be near impossible to change those and too expensive start over. I'll make it work. My fall back is to go tube frame on the front and tie it into the roll cage.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 22 2018, 11:27 PM

QUOTE(Rand @ Jul 22 2018, 09:06 PM) *

Just another opinion that's worth nothing, but to keep this true to the OG and put your touch on it... Keep the paint scheme and replace the highlights with YOUR color. Don't do a full color change.



Rand,
Honestly, I'm leaning that way. But with the new information tonight about additional bodywork needed, It may take a full repaint. If that happens all bets are off.

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 22 2018, 11:50 PM

That's about what I was expecting body wise. And one reason I keep saying we need to pull it out is to get that front end back into alignment and not just move sheet metal.

I see a straight donor chassis will leave you with not only good measurements to pull from but good steel.

Even if you cut everything off and replaced I still think it needs some pulls to bring the tension out of the chassis. And once you have a good few pulls out you might find that it's not so bad.

I'll give you a call tomorrow after work on my drive home.


sawzall-smiley.gif smash.gif welder.gif wub.gif

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 23 2018, 12:26 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 07:33 PM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 04:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 03:22 PM) *

My new vote is for drug dealer green metal flake. Heavy 1070's disco speed boat metal flake.

You will be unique and the only 914 ever painted this color. piratenanner.gif

Hell, put some 26" dubs on it too! aktion035.gif

Attached Image


Mike, I like you, but I sense that you've gone off on the whole what color will it be discussion. Did you imbibe in some gin and tonics early this afternoon?

Actually, margaritas... first.gif

I get it. You're afraid if you go heavy metallic green you will get profiled as the old man king pin of the cartel. I understand... biggrin.gif

I thought it was DOPE!! Or maybe they just deal dope.... I get those confused... smoke.gif

Posted by: Cracker Jul 23 2018, 06:53 AM

Congrats...welcome to the club.

Cracker

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 23 2018, 02:20 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 23 2018, 05:53 AM) *

Congrats...welcome to the club.

Cracker


Thanks

That's, hmm quite a stable you have there...

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 23 2018, 09:43 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 09:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Jul 22 2018, 09:39 PM) *

Looking at the video. You should buy a new tub. It will be cheaper in the long run just to transfer the drivetrain over. Look like you may need to replace from the doors forward.

Cheaper and faster to transfer everything into a good body.



Unfortunately, this is on a budget that is likely to double before I even get started. The rear fenders are bonded to the tub. It would be near impossible to change those and too expensive start over. I'll make it work. My fall back is to go tube frame on the front and tie it into the roll cage.

Long term the cheaper route is a new tub. It's also faster to completion.

You can pull and push yourself but eventually it will need to go on a frame bench. To do that you have to remove all the suspension and drivetrain. You have to do this with a new tub as well. No loss in time or money yet. But the frame bench will cost you the same as a tub. Frame straight still needs a bunch of welding and patch panels. A good tub needs less work(=less money). Paint is the same cost. The sheridan body will cost you but you already need a front end. You would have to buy the rear stuff.

End result is a better chassis for about the same cost +/-...

Plus you could have the entire unibody slightly tweaked. Look for the thread when Sir Andy corner balanced his bent tub. One wheel was all jacked up in the air. All due to a slight bend in the unibody. He had to cut his cage out to fix it. Rapid deceleration (wreck) moves metal all over the place and you might not see it.

Think long term and not short term payouts. I know you are dying to carve corners in this thing but if it's unstable at speed because it's bent, it could be your last drive...

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 23 2018, 09:53 PM

Well, you're full of cheery thoughts...

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 23 2018, 11:38 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 23 2018, 08:53 PM) *

Well, you're full of cheery thoughts...

I'm a pragmatist. I've built a ton of cars and made plenty of bad choices...

I think both options is a close wash in cost. New tub gets you driving with less overall effort and disappointment.

Posted by: Cracker Jul 24 2018, 06:25 AM

Ha! Definitely too many (at once) with my space limitations!

Regarding your project - I too have some thoughts. I am not trying to be a "Debbie Downer" but I also would not want you to kill yourself in an ill-handling car!

I would encourage you to strongly consider all of your options before doing anything but parking your car in the garage at this point. For what its worth, which is probably not much, I am more than happy to discuss what I have learned over the years with you - PM me your contact info if interested.

My experience with adding substantial power to a teener and the challenge of making the package work properly leads me to believe a new chassis would be the best decision (at least to strongly consider).

From what I have seen over the years, your car was never finely tuned to adequately perform - not a poke - just reality. Repairing the chassis, as Mike has stated, would require a precise and enormous effort with no guarantees of the desired result. I realize all of these projects have "budgets" but to me - you essentially purchased a drivetrain - not so much a car.

If I were in your shoes, I would have budgeted for a newly prepped chassis with a cage that ties into the windshield frame (A-pillar). Once a 914 has over 400 hp (and more importantly torque), the benefit of further strengthening the very weak center section of the car is paramount. Night and day difference in my experience - I have gone both ways on a few different teener projects.

As a few can attest, a properly balanced build will pay huge dividends in the end. My car for instance, is remarkably tame and balanced with a good margin of increased power beyond your project. A teener can be built to be both a monster and pussy cat but it just doesn't happen throwing parts together.

Best wishes!

Cracker


QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 23 2018, 04:20 PM) *

That's, hmm quite a stable you have there...

Posted by: My 914 Jul 24 2018, 07:53 AM

agree.gif

I think this is some excellent advice.

Posted by: ValcoOscar Jul 24 2018, 08:15 AM

Having a V8 914 in the past, I also agree with Tony.

It's obvious that you have some solid feedback from some knowledgeable experienced members here. You have a lot of thinking to do. idea.gif

I understand budget constraints but I have never finished a car within budget. Shit happens and Murphy rears his head at every opportunity.

In either case, you purchased a sweet project, just relax and enjoy the journey.

I'm looking forward to what you decide.

Oscar






Posted by: dan10101 Jul 24 2018, 10:15 AM

Thanks for all your thoughts, but enough talk about body swaps. You guys are really bringing me down.
There is so much work done to this body/chassis, I just don't want to start over.

This car is fixable. And it will be right when its done.

All that said, I am getting a donor car. And I've ordered my Sheridan front end.
Things could change as I get down the road a bit as the car itself will determine how the repair is done. I just need it to talk to me a bit, right now I think it's still in shock...



Posted by: Cracker Jul 24 2018, 08:10 PM

Dan - I certainly am not trying to bring you down...sorry it came across that way. I look forward to seeing you restore your car - enjoy the process. I know you will appreciate the end result. beerchug.gif

Cracker

Posted by: 914forme Jul 24 2018, 08:34 PM

I would start buy building a nice solid level frame jig that at least marks all your suspension points. You would want to build this off a know good chassis. Even if that is using pieces from the donor car to build the jig. This will allow you to take the front and back sections and make them one with out much going wrong.

It can still go wrong but at least you have a solid base to measure off of and work from.

A few sticks of steel and you will be a much happier person doing this reconstruction project. Best of luck.

Jeff Hail's cart is a very nice one. I have a set of jigs from Tangerine Racing that I will also use to build one they pickup the rear suspension points. Use a steal cross bar for the front, and build the jigs from there to the front Arm points.

Or find a Bench and 914 fixtures. icon8.gif

I think it can be saved, I would just do the foundation work first.

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 24 2018, 10:26 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Jul 24 2018, 07:10 PM) *

Dan - I certainly am not trying to bring you down...sorry it came across that way. I look forward to seeing you restore your car - enjoy the process. I know you will appreciate the end result. beerchug.gif

Cracker


Not at all, That's all on my end. You all are just giving your best opinion and I do appreciate it.

I am enjoying this. Thanks

Posted by: dan10101 Jul 24 2018, 11:49 PM

Actually I will have a doner car that looks pretty solid. We planed on doing measurements, but a jig won't be hard to create and a lot more accurate. I think someone else mentioned this as well. Thanks for the tip. I'm already drawing it up as I write this. I've got a great scrap metal place a couple miles away.
Thanks

QUOTE(914forme @ Jul 24 2018, 07:34 PM) *

I would start buy building a nice solid level frame jig that at least marks all your suspension points. You would want to build this off a know good chassis. Even if that is using pieces from the donor car to build the jig. This will allow you to take the front and back sections and make them one with out much going wrong.

It can still go wrong but at least you have a solid base to measure off of and work from.

A few sticks of steel and you will be a much happier person doing this reconstruction project. Best of luck.

Jeff Hail's cart is a very nice one. I have a set of jigs from Tangerine Racing that I will also use to build one they pickup the rear suspension points. Use a steal cross bar for the front, and build the jigs from there to the front Arm points.

Or find a Bench and 914 fixtures. icon8.gif

I think it can be saved, I would just do the foundation work first.


Posted by: dan10101 Aug 6 2018, 10:39 AM

I'm a bit late in getting an update out. But at least I've been busy.
We made a 1800 mile trip to pickup a donor car in LA and stopped by Roger Sheridan's place in Paso Robles to pickup the fiberglass front end. Quite the trip, but except for smoke virtually everywhere along the way, and taking GPS routes the weren't always the smartest choice, the trip was uneventful. (the way I like it.) My wife decided I should not embark on this journey by myself, so she came along to keep me company. And aside from asking every couple of hours "Tell me again, Why are you getting this car??" She didn't see the beauty of a pristine body. I look at bodies all the time, I know a good one from a bad one. We'll this one is just what the dr ordered. So, I'm going to cut it up and fix mine. Yeah, I know, I'm a bad person. sawzall-smiley.gif

So there is a method to my madness. The rear of the Screamcicle has a lot of work done to it. Custom work that I don't want to redo. The side vents don't come with Rogers kit. They are beautifully molded into the side. The firewall is custom and done to mm of the engine rotating components. the roll cage is custom incorporated into the front and rear sections as well as fit into the dash. The fiberglass work is bonded to the tub and worked in nicely to make it look like it's always been there. The rear deck lid has a custom spoiler that molds into the rear fenders.

Enough of my rationalizing.
Here's my plan of attack.
Corner balance check blue car - done, it looks to be what I expected from a stock car without drivetrain. No huge variances.
Inspect for previous damage - No damage whatsoever.. Ok, the paint is faded...
Put blue car on the rack and remove suspension - today I hope, (it's gonna be hot and smokey)
Build chassis jig - got the major parts to construct the jig. more on that
Bolt to front and rear bumper mounts, could be a challenge to unbolt, I need to work that out.
Add arms that locate the mounting points.
Check and adjust for gaps
Bolt together jig and blue car
Unbolt blue car
Put the suspension back on the blue car so I can roll it out.
Put white car on rack
Pull engine and trans
Unbolt suspension
Move chassis jig into place
Cut nose off white car leaving a couple inches for overlap
Measure and cut nose off blue car leaving a couple of inches for overlap
Mount nose to the jig and body leaving overlap
Connect both pieces are in place and mated using coleco connections
Measure and mark for cutting line
Plasma cut thru both pieces leaving a clean line on which to butt weld. welder.gif
Possibly do this in sections leaving sections always connected. still working this out.
Once the nose is in place and the suspension point are where they should be, then I'll cut out the bad A pillar and do that repair. sawzall-smiley.gif

I know I'm leaving things out, but you get the jist.

Oh, my wife had a great idea for the rear end. Make a tire trailer for it. The white car already has a receiver hitch.

Attached Image

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 6 2018, 04:20 PM

Well it didn't take long to remove the suspension, brakes etc.
After doing some cleanup, I started working on the Jig or at least the frame.
And i need to do more research for removable or at least adjustable arms.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 6 2018, 04:53 PM

PICS?

thisthreadisworthlesswithoutpics.gif

Lets see your drawing for the jig your looking to make!

I think you should build the jig base, then have the pieces that will bolt to the 914 go straight up. You could do round tube arms with a center peg. Have about 6 inches of fixture that bolts to your welded bench arm. That way you can pull with it still if you need to.

This is the Celette fixtures for the 914...
IPB Image

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 6 2018, 11:53 PM

Nag nag nag..

Ok, here's a picture.

Welded the 3" 1/4" square tube together. It's pretty square and flat.
note: welding thick metal is fun...

Attached Image

I'm thinking of this kind of leg with a fixed adjustable portion and another that will roll. I really am having trouble moving it around so it need to be easier.

not my picture but someone doing something similar.
Attached Image


Posted by: horizontally-opposed Aug 7 2018, 12:16 AM

There was a 996 GT2 near here years ago, that was clipped. Whole front end. Really nice job, and the car was great.

There was a 997 GT3 RS that came over the Corkscrew and t-boned a car that spun. Also clipped—from the fuel tank~ forward. A friend selling that car disclosed it, and the buyer's PPI guys called to say "Are you sure? Because we can't find ANY evidence."

It can be done well. welder.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 08:54 AM

QUOTE(horizontally-opposed @ Aug 6 2018, 11:16 PM) *

There was a 996 GT2 near here years ago, that was clipped. Whole front end. Really nice job, and the car was great.

There was a 997 GT3 RS that came over the Corkscrew and t-boned a car that spun. Also clipped—from the fuel tank~ forward. A friend selling that car disclosed it, and the buyer's PPI guys called to say "Are you sure? Because we can't find ANY evidence."

It can be done well. welder.gif


Thanks for the encouraging words.

The goal is to make it straight and strong.

Posted by: Chris H. Aug 7 2018, 09:27 AM

I remember a race prepped narrow body 914 that was re-clipped in the Chicago area. It was white with a Japanese flag on the hood in case anyone remembers it. The owner said something in the suspension gave way and he hit a wall straight on at fairly high speed. It was really smashed but had a cage in it. The bent stuff was cut off and the front clip was swapped out. He seemed happy with the repair and was still driving it and racing it years later.

Posted by: tazz9924 Aug 7 2018, 01:38 PM

How much did you get that whole fiberglass front clip for?

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 02:35 PM

QUOTE(Chris H. @ Aug 7 2018, 08:27 AM) *

I remember a race prepped narrow body 914 that was re-clipped in the Chicago area. It was white with a Japanese flag on the hood in case anyone remembers it. The owner said something in the suspension gave way and he hit a wall straight on at fairly high speed. It was really smashed but had a cage in it. The bent stuff was cut off and the front clip was swapped out. He seemed happy with the repair and was still driving it and racing it years later.


Love a happy ending.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 02:38 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Aug 7 2018, 12:38 PM) *

How much did you get that whole fiberglass front clip for?



It's a Sheridan nose. On their website for 1200.
http://sheridanmotorsports.com/porsche_parts_pricing.html
No shipping, I picked it up and saved several hundred.

It's just the nose, front bumper, and fenders. Hood is extra.
I'm going to try to make mine work, it's got a lot of custom work done to it as well.


Posted by: burton73 Aug 7 2018, 03:06 PM

Dan,

I feel very hopeful on the reworking of your car. We are all watching and in your corner.

The very best of luck on it.

Be safe my friend.

Bob B
sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif wub.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 06:11 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Aug 7 2018, 02:06 PM) *

We are all watching


Eeekk
Well, I guess that's good. In case I do something really stupid.

Maybe I should share my shop camera. That way if I fall over someone can call 911.




Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 08:52 PM

Ok, here is an updated drawing of the very homemade chassis jig I'm building.

Basically it's 3x3" 1/4" thick square tube.
13' long, but the working rectangle is 10' x 42"

in this drawing I've added a second set of 3' bracing. When I start adding arms I'll determine where those should ultimately go.

This is not designed to be multiple use. When I'm done, I'll probably cut the ends off it and turn it into a welding table. Unless someone else wants it for 914 jig use, then I might consider selling it.

I'm working on the legs right now. Making the plates that will insert and weld into the legs that will contain the 3/4" bolts that will allow leveling adjustments. They will raise it approx 15" off the concrete allowing me to get under it to make the initial connections.

Next to the fixed legs will be roller legs with bracing between the 2 for strength. Found some heavy duty rollers similar to the picture in the above post for a reasonable price. They should serve well. I may have to trailer it out of the shop, ( I don't have a flat parking area next to the shop)

The hard part will be getting the arms in place. I found some 1 1/2" square tubing and some 1 1/4 square tubing that slide into each other snugly. I'll begin by creating plates for each of the mounting areas, such as the rear bumper mounts, suspension pickup points, trans mounts. I want to keep those holes very snug to the bolts. Then do some initial tack welds to where the arms will connect to the jig. Depending on how sturdy the arms are, I may brace them somehow. To each other, or to the jig.

It will likely become a spaghetti nest of arms. There are 6 in the rear on each side, 5 in the front on each side. That's 22 arms sticking up all over the place. If I add the jacking points it becomes unruly. I welcome thoughts on that and anything else...

Attached Image

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 7 2018, 09:32 PM

I think you need to at least pick up the transmission mount as well as the upper front suspension bolts.

You will essentially be holding the chassis in place with only the rear suspension when you cut off the front end so at least having a point for the pinch weld to rest in the front would be ideal. It would also be a good place to clamp the body while your welding to prevent the main chassis from moving.

The more you do the better, especially up front. You can always just leave the pieces off and put them on if you find you need to fit the chassis more precisely.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 7 2018, 09:38 PM

I will be doing all the front pickup points. I'll try to do the rears as well. The engine mount is kinda a floating point. But I could make it fixed with a big tube of some sort to fill the hole rather than let it float around. Anyway, I'll try to do them all, we'll see.

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 8 2018, 07:17 AM

I like the way you're doing it Dan.
There is so much custom work on the chassis that full replacement would be a much larger project.

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 8 2018, 07:57 AM

Some pics of the attachment points on my frame table (Slutty Bench).
Each pair is connected with a heavy crossmember bolted to the main frame. (spot welds holding crossmember to frame were removed after construction)
The main frame is bolted together so it can be disassembled for long term storage.
I currently have the table anchored to the floor with large turnbuckles so some chassis pulling can be done without the frame twisting.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: dan10101 Aug 8 2018, 08:42 AM

Thanks Chris.
I forgot about your front swaybar when I was rationalizing on keeping the chassis. It would be an easy swap, but another thing to do.

I really like your frame pictures. Especially mounting both pickup points together then attaching to the main frame.
I'm going to do some more research before I start making arms. That way seems to be as solid as it gets.

Do you have any pictures of pulling in action? I'm curious how you attach on jig side. I'm assuming you bolt to the pickup points on the car side to pull.

I'm hoping not to need that, but I'm realistic.

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 8 2018, 11:43 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 8 2018, 10:42 AM) *


Do you have any pictures of pulling in action? I'm curious how you attach on jig side. I'm assuming you bolt to the pickup points on the car side to pull.


Haven't done any hard pulls yet, but the chassis on the table is in need. We're too busy with other work to invest the time right now.
I'll need to make anchor points on the floor to do the pulling since the table isn't built to attach heavy duty cantilever structures.
Many years ago when I had to straighten my race car I took it to a shop that had a proper frame table. They let me do the work myself and just charged a small fee for the "rental".

Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 8 2018, 11:47 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 8 2018, 10:42 AM) *

I forgot about your front swaybar when I was rationalizing on keeping the chassis. It would be an easy swap, but another thing to do.

I don't remember installing one of my anti-swaybars but it makes sense. The car previously had a 911 non-adjustable underbody bar.
I did find pics from when we installed the de-cambered ball joints though.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 8 2018, 09:50 PM

Chris, (or anyone) I would love to see any pictures you find of the Screamcicle.

One of my decisions is whether to repair the drivers side lower control arm or replace it. I know you made some changes to the ball joints and there are also elephant bushings I would like to save.

I see the bottom cover is off the passenger lower ball joint and can't tell if it's bad or just missing the cover. I'll have a better idea once I pull it apart.

The update for today is that I was able to mount the legs to the jig frame structure.
Working upside down, I mounted the fixed legs on the inside of the laterals. then it was obvious that I should put the wheeled legs on the outer side of the laterals. Then later I'll add a bracing between the 2 legs which should be plenty strong for whichever leg is in use.
Attached Image
I also need to add some welds to the topside, now that it's flipped over and on it's feet. That was a challenge with to guys with bad backs. We were able to make it happen with jacks and leverage.
Attached Image
My cheap jig wheels from the metal scrap yard work excellent, All I had to do is cut the welds that kept them from turning 360 degrees. They even have zert fittings and do roll very smoothly.

Well, reducing the size fixed the picture upload. They were less than 4mb, but smaller fixed it.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 8 2018, 10:02 PM

Photos have to be under 4mb. you'll need to resize them. I use Ifranview.

Resize to 1920x....

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 8 2018, 11:18 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 8 2018, 09:02 PM) *

Photos have to be under 4mb. you'll need to resize them. I use Ifranview.

Resize to 1920x....


Well, smaller fixed it. I was less than 4mb, but oh well, I'll resize. Thanks


Posted by: Andyrew Aug 9 2018, 07:24 AM

With the bracing you mentioned I think it'll be good. I do think that maybe a 1"square tube as a diagnal brace along the jig might help.

Also what about doing two more feet in the middle of the jig? I know it's heavy duty 1/4", but I still worry about sagging.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 9 2018, 07:28 AM

Also how about a sliding "L" bracket that bolts to the leg and allows for the jig to be more stable? It could also be boolted to the floor. I worry about it toppling with the chassis on it or at least not being perfectly stable.

With this you could still level the jig with the feet, but then attach these L brackets after all is said and positioned.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 9 2018, 09:13 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 9 2018, 06:24 AM) *

With the bracing you mentioned I think it'll be good. I do think that maybe a 1"square tube as a diagnal brace along the jig might help.

Also what about doing two more feet in the middle of the jig? I know it's heavy duty 1/4", but I still worry about sagging.


I'll think about the diag..

Another leg will be a problem when I roll it out of the shop. i may have to to drag it up the hill and 4 legs would make it much easier. Most of the attachment points will be right where the legs are, so the weight in the middle will be minimal.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 9 2018, 09:20 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 9 2018, 06:28 AM) *

Also how about a sliding "L" bracket that bolts to the leg and allows for the jig to be more stable? It could also be bolted to the floor. I worry about it toppling with the chassis on it or at least not being perfectly stable.

With this you could still level the jig with the feet, but then attach these L brackets after all is said and positioned.


This is a good idea. Chris mentioned attaching it to the floor for pulling. I may just wait to see if I have to pull something. I could put stabilizers on it to prevent rolling over, but we'll see if that's even necessary.

I found this one that someone made. I wish mine was this light. it looks like good bracing to make it strong enough to stay in shape.

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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 9 2018, 01:47 PM

You could test deflection of the jig... Measure bottom of jig to bottom of floor. Place as much weight on the center of the jig as you can (Like 300lbs) and remeasure. That would give you an accurate deflection of your jig so you can determine if it needs extra help smile.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 9 2018, 05:13 PM

Today was a day of making templates for the mounting plates.
Making the templates was easy. Cutting them out not so much.

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A plasma cutter certainly makes it easier to cut 1/4" plate. Probably didn't need to be that thick, but it's what I had leftover from a bumper build for my jeep.
Tomorrow I get to grind, shape, drill and that's probably as far as I get.

Also, found some angle iron and a 2x2" in my junk pile that I will be using for making cross bracing. I wasn't going to use the 1.5" x 1.5" square tubing but realizing how short they would be, I think they will be plenty strong. they are 1/8" thick. Plus some 1.25" square tubing that will slide into the 1.5" and fit snug. I can either bolt them or weld them to the distance I need.

That is all, I'm going to go put some Aloa Vera on my welding sunburn.

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Posted by: tygaboy Aug 9 2018, 05:52 PM

Dan - It looks like I'm late to the party but going forward, if it's of any help, I'd be happy to cut stuff for you on the plasma table. All I need are the dimensions...

Best of luck with your project!

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 9 2018, 06:35 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Aug 9 2018, 04:52 PM) *

Dan - It looks like I'm late to the party but going forward, if it's of any help, I'd be happy to cut stuff for you on the plasma table. All I need are the dimensions...

Best of luck with your project!


Thanks Chris, I'm more a seat of the pants type of designer. Cut the cardboard til if fits, then cut it out of plate, and then grind it till it fits like the cardboard did. I'll keep you in mind if something else comes up. Well, you're usually in the back of my mind when i'm working. "what would Chris do in this situation", then do it completely wrong.. headbang.gif

It was a bit funny watching me hose down the weeds outside the shop every 20 minutes just in case a stray spark flew out there. anything to cut metal using Fire.. ar15.gif
I know they are rough, but I'll see what I can salvage. I do know I need to use long sleeves next time. need more aloa vera..

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Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 10 2018, 01:47 PM

that jig in the above pics was made by my buddies body shop,When they started it was a body dolly and I added the other points to do a front clip, no pulling , just cut and weld it was supported in the center when in was in use , the body gaps came out perfect... and chassis square..

oh ya it was attached to a straight chassis during the building of..

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 10 2018, 03:19 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 10 2018, 12:47 PM) *

that jig in the above pics was made by my buddies body shop,When they started it was a body dolly and I added the other points to do a front clip, no pulling , just cut and weld it was supported in the center when in was in use , the body gaps came out perfect... and chassis square..

oh ya it was attached to a straight chassis during the building of..


Very cool
I'd love to hear more about how you mated the sheet metal together.

Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 10 2018, 08:37 PM

many cuts zig zagged and purposely.. factory spot welds intact.. there is a factory manual that shows factory front clip procedures ...I have it somewhere ..I moved 1300 miles... not pretty

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 10 2018, 09:51 PM

So did you butt weld it back together, or overlap and then weld together?

Can you tell why i'm so curious? sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 10 2018, 10:06 PM

Today's update is minor, but still somewhat significant my mind. I place an order to Eastwood for some sheet metal tools. Also visited my local Harbor Freight. Even got a little honey dues done.

But still I managed to attach 4 plates to the car. Needed some tools to do that which slowed the day down a bit.

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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 10 2018, 10:14 PM

The rear 2 plates won't be on the 74 chassis. That's for the big bumpers.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 10 2018, 10:35 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 10 2018, 09:14 PM) *

The rear 2 plates won't be on the 74 chassis. That's for the big bumpers.


WTF.gif barf.gif confused24.gif hissyfit.gif headbang.gif

Never say that I don't learn things.. every single day....

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 11 2018, 01:12 AM

Im gonna guess you didnt have those big torx 45 drivers for those bolts and it probably killed 3 hrs of your day... sad.gif

I should have mentioned to you that the bumpers front/rear would be slightly different for your 74 vs your 76 donor... Sorry..


Posted by: John Jentz Aug 11 2018, 06:28 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 10:37 AM) *

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif

I remember it as tasting very much like a Manhattan. It was gooooodddddd!

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 11 2018, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 11 2018, 12:12 AM) *

Im gonna guess you didnt have those big torx 45 drivers for those bolts and it probably killed 3 hrs of your day... sad.gif

I should have mentioned to you that the bumpers front/rear would be slightly different for your 74 vs your 76 donor... Sorry..


Those were from the Bimmer. Yes, I did, and I was so proud that I found a set of 4 bolts and even had the torx bit for them. Oh well.
I was going to ask about the front bumper. I guess I'll just go with the chassis pickup points and call it good. It seems to work well for the jig that 6not4 built.

I don't need bumper mounts for the front, so it won't matter that they are different.




Posted by: dan10101 Aug 11 2018, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(John Jentz @ Aug 11 2018, 05:28 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Jul 22 2018, 10:37 AM) *

Nice pictures.

Soooo, for us West Coast guys, what IS in that gas can...

drunk.gif beer3.gif barf.gif

I remember it as tasting very much like a Manhattan. It was gooooodddddd!


drunk.gif
I've never had a Manhattan, I may have to expand my horizons...

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 16 2018, 12:43 AM

another update.
The weekend was a wash, but weekdays are for working so I got a bit done. I made the mounting plates for each of the chassis mounting points. (minus the bumper mounts, since apparently I assumed too much..)

So, now I'm working on cross members that will accept the arms that will weld to the plates. I have two mocked up, in the pictures below. I decided on round 1.5" tubing instead of square tube mostly due to being able to index the tube to get a nice perpendicular (isn't that a fun word) connection to the jig cross members..

I'm finding that I will probably need to finish weld at least 2 of them so that I can hang the Jig frame and get the exact measurements of the other arms. I'm thinking that I will go and get some more 2" square tube along with some 6" bolts to go thru the 3" + 2" square and mount them to the main Jig for consistency. Before I do that I will align and level the main Jig frame. (not that I think it matters but only because it may at some point down the road.) then I will trim and final weld the 2 end mounting points. (rear trans mount and front lower control arms mount). Then build and tack weld the remaining arms. if all looks good, finish weld and call it good. I may add some cross bracing that will reinforce the arm positioning. I'll have a better idea once I get that far.

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Posted by: dan10101 Aug 17 2018, 04:35 PM

Another update.

Now the front and rear arms are fixed
I moved the jig forward so there is about a 2" jig overhand on front and rear. Leaves more options down the road.

I remade one of the front arms that was too short. When working on a slanted plate, the arm length changes with positioning on the plate.
Then welded the front and rear arms to the the 2x2 cross bracing. (Also picked up some more 2x2 so I could be more consistent with the build)
Also picked up some 6" 3/8" bolts that will be used to locate and somewhat hold the cross arms. They will also be welded, but the bolts will allow them welds to be cut and still retain the mounting positions.

Since I now know the exact lengths of the other arms, (well somewhat). I can begin cutting them out and welding them to the cross braces.

I can't wait to start working on the white car.

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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 17 2018, 05:14 PM

piratenanner.gif welder.gif sawzall-smiley.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 20 2018, 12:09 AM

Continue to make progress on the Jig. A couple more arms to make and it will be ready to test. I say test, because it might be a challenge to unbolt and separate from the body. Ive already make some adjustments to the arms to allow it to drop down and away. I'll make the remaining arms and give it a try.

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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 20 2018, 10:46 AM

If your concern is not being able to lift it straight up you could unbolt and separate the arms from the jig on the ones that look like they will bind.

I think it looks great. Did you get any body/seam clamps? I think doing one clamp on the front of the long would be a good idea. Give you something strong to hold the front of the body with while you separate the bad pieces.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 20 2018, 02:12 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 20 2018, 09:46 AM) *

If your concern is not being able to lift it straight up you could unbolt and separate the arms from the jig on the ones that look like they will bind.

I think it looks great. Did you get any body/seam clamps? I think doing one clamp on the front of the long would be a good idea. Give you something strong to hold the front of the body with while you separate the bad pieces.


I'm not sure what you mean by seam clamps. Here is what I just purchased from Eastwood. BTW, the package of 8 is from Harbor Freight. 1/2 the price, 2x the clamps.

Attached Image

A mid day update. All the arms are built. I have to finish welding a couple on the front. Then shim the cross bracing where it lifted. Most are flush, but a couple I got to hot too soon and they shrunk.

I think I'm going to tac weld the cross bracing before I drill it. I can test the arms for clearance and so on, make sure they aren't in a bind.

When it's where I want it, I'll begin drilling positioning pins/mounting bolts. That will be a chore as most have to be done from the bottom. Then I might throw a couple more welds on the cross bracing. i don't intend to remove arms until I'm done with the project. Then the welds can be cut off and the positioning pins/bolts can be used to relocate for future use if need be.

Forgive my ugly welds. welder.gif It's hard to get in a good position and I always rush these things. I switched to square tubing on a couple on the back. It just made more sense.

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Posted by: dan10101 Aug 20 2018, 04:44 PM

We have Liftoff!

It's only being held by spot welds. (well, heavy spot welds.)
I still need to drill alignment holes and add the bolts. Then I'll call it done.


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Posted by: dan10101 Aug 21 2018, 10:41 PM

Ok, this is more like liftoff.
The arms are made, they are solid. No bracing needed. They seem to be holding in place without heat warpage.

I did make a tactical error on the motor mount bracket. I put it on top of the mount since it was flat and easier to locate. Does make it very difficult to drop the frame. So I made a cut and bent it out of the way. i can put it back later if I want to once the jig is in place on the white car.

Next step is to put it back on the blue car. Make sure everything aligns. Then drill for alignment bolts. Then I can pull it off for good and reassemble the blue car suspension to make it a roller again.

Then the fun begins...

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Posted by: Racer Chris Aug 22 2018, 05:35 AM

Looks great Dan!
I'd be inclined to separate the strut tower pieces from the lower brackets though.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 22 2018, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Aug 22 2018, 04:35 AM) *

Looks great Dan!
I'd be inclined to separate the strut tower pieces from the lower brackets though.


You bring up a good point. One of the questionable spots is the circled area under the drivers seat. I may need to do something different there if I have to pull it into position.

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Posted by: ValcoOscar Aug 22 2018, 09:49 AM

Dan-

I am impressed with what you have accomplished in less than 2 months. It would have taken me 3X as long...congrats.

You're a man on a mission and it helps that experienced members are chiming in to offer their input.

No doubt this car found the right home beerchug.gif

I can't wait to see it in person someday in the near future.

Oscar


Posted by: dan10101 Aug 22 2018, 10:22 AM

QUOTE(ValcoOscar @ Aug 22 2018, 08:49 AM) *


You're a man on a mission and it helps that experienced members are chiming in to offer their input.
Oscar




Thanks Oscar, It does most definitely help. 40 years ago, I struggled through repairs with books checked out from the library. it's a different world.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 22 2018, 11:14 PM

A quick update.
I completed the reassembly of the chassis and Jig.
Only minor adjustments needed. YAY!
one more disassembly and it's done.

My Datsun friend came over and we assembled the suspension for the blue donor and rolled it out of the shop!

After some Laurel and Hardy efforts in getting the Z car in the shop, we were able to pull the engine on Z car and determine the cause of the 'ceased engine'. it was the flywheel rubbing on the trans bell housing.

a bit more work to do on the Z car and we'll be back to our regular program.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 24 2018, 09:10 AM

The Z car is running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNTN7Soy__4&feature=youtu.be

The BMW suspension is on deck. icon_bump.gif

Then back to our regular scheduled program.

In the meantime. I'm shopping for wheels.
I really want to go with something like this with a deep dish, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have any ideas?

I have 3" spacers I can remove and use that distance as dish...

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Posted by: Andyrew Aug 24 2018, 02:01 PM

What ET did you determine you need?

Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 24 2018, 02:24 PM

mag center 20bolt bbs 10x17 and 11x17


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Posted by: dan10101 Aug 24 2018, 05:43 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 24 2018, 01:01 PM) *

What ET did you determine you need?


Math ug...

1"=25.5mm

It's 50mm et now.
plus 3" spacer 76.5mm
If i move it back to a 1" spacer and a 0et, I would be just outside the current location by .5mm

0 ET calculations.
-76.5mm + 50mm = 26.5mm
1" spacer = 25.5mm
leaving 1mm difference, ( can live with that but not much more)

-26.5mm ET calculations
-76.5mm + 50mm = -26.5mm

So, if you're still reading.
either 0mm ET
or -26ish ET

The deeper the better...




Posted by: dan10101 Aug 24 2018, 05:45 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 24 2018, 01:24 PM) *

mag center 20bolt bbs 10x17 and 11x17


Yes, this!

I'm at 8x18 and 11x18 right now.
I'm thinking 10x18 square for track tires. But we'll see what turns up..

Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 25 2018, 08:44 AM

https://www.apexraceparts.com/wheels/fl-5-wheels/18x10-et25-apex-fl-5-wheel.html


https://www.augmentwheels.com/

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 25 2018, 09:27 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 25 2018, 07:44 AM) *

https://www.apexraceparts.com/wheels/fl-5-wheels/18x10-et25-apex-fl-5-wheel.html


I love those wheels! They are the right look. deep dish, choice of finish, and best of all not 1000+ each...

But.....
They are for BMW.
Why can't they make the exact wheel in 5x130....

Still, I'm going to call them...

Thanks for the find

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Posted by: Cracker Aug 25 2018, 09:35 AM

Dan - There are "non-bimmer" options...my old car. These use the 16" Fuch centers and then are converted...Lindsey Racing I believe? AFAICR...

Cracker

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Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 25 2018, 09:52 AM

Lindsey's are 17'

here is 18's
https://braidusa.com/products/bz-series-wheels?variant=12204569296938

Posted by: ChrisFoley Aug 25 2018, 12:34 PM

Staggered wheel widths are better for handling with a big high powered engine in a 914.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 25 2018, 03:19 PM

QUOTE(Cracker @ Aug 25 2018, 08:35 AM) *

Dan - There are "non-bimmer" options...my old car. These use the 16" Fuch centers and then are converted...Lindsey Racing I believe? AFAICR...

Cracker



I like the look of your car, nice classic styling race car.
There are several I would go for, but I'll have to find them second hand.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 25 2018, 03:23 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Aug 25 2018, 08:52 AM) *

Lindsey's are 17'

here is 18's
https://braidusa.com/products/bz-series-wheels?variant=12204569296938


I like the wheels you are posting, but it's too rich for my blood.
I guess I need to monitor the used market for deals.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 25 2018, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Aug 25 2018, 11:34 AM) *

Staggered wheel widths are better for handling with a big high powered engine in a 914.


My short term solution may be to get a couple "stockers" to replace the bent front wheels and keep my eyes open for a deal on some track wheels.

I really wanted to go with a square setup as a way to get the most out of my tires. Being the fastest at my autocross track isn't my goal. There are some blazing fast EMods out there. Track days would be the other big use of the car.

One of my biggest goals is to Not be 'that guy' that screams down the straight and then slows down for the corners and holds everyone up.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 25 2018, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 25 2018, 02:30 PM) *


One of my biggest goals is to Not be 'that guy' that screams down the straight and then slows down for the corners and holds everyone up.


Ahh you mean like me? biggrin.gif

I'm pretty sure your skill will overcome that quickly once your used to the car..

I would say patience and lots of Craigslist/eBay watching will turn something up smile.gif

You can always call them and see if they are interested in sponsorships.. smile.gif

Posted by: jim dorociak Aug 25 2018, 08:22 PM

The wheels you are looking for need to be custom built to fit your car. The only way to get what you need is a 3 piece wheel. Now for the bad news there are no used wheels available in your needed size and ET. Viable options would be BBS, or CMW used of course but do not be surprised you will still need to buy some new inner and outer rims as the sizes/ET is special for your car. I build Speedline wheels and make custom sizes for the 930/911 wide body, 965/964RSR, 993/TT/GT2 cars. I have a Techart Daytona centers available for a custom build. My sets are however around $4,000 using the Daytona centers. I am attaching a picture of a set I built.Attached Image

Posted by: My 914 Aug 25 2018, 08:35 PM

Those are nice!

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 25 2018, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(My 914 @ Aug 25 2018, 07:35 PM) *

Those are nice!


Yes indeed. Just out of my price range.

Posted by: Andyrew Aug 26 2018, 01:43 AM

Not exactly what you want, but comes with tires, and a decent deal...

https://m.ebay.com/itm/PORSCHE-18-WHEELS-5x130-VOLK-RAYS-TE37-RACING-911-964-996-Cayman-Boxster/183388326715?hash=item2ab2cbcb3b:g:hJkAAOSwHk9bedvx


Edit: just noticed it's an auction. Will likely blow your budget.. those wheels are expensive....

Posted by: 914forme Aug 26 2018, 08:28 AM

agree.gif but I would toss in a crazy price bid and see, if it goes over it goes over confused24.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 26 2018, 10:15 AM

Those look nice, but I'm going to keep looking and try not to jump into anything to quickly. I have some time to be picky.

I installed the BMW suspension on my buddies car. He loved it. Low and tight. Tomorrow I get to lay hands on the Porsche. piratenanner.gif

Posted by: egon Aug 26 2018, 08:15 PM

Dan,

A big thank you for buying and rebuilding the Screamsicle. I helped Paul with the car for about 6 years. I am also the purveyor of the Gas Can.

I fixed many systems on the car but never got the chance to fully refine them. I'm a bit anal about certain things, i.e. how it looks or can it be simpler. A good example in the "octopus". Once we figured out all the issues with the old one, I build the one on the car from scratch that was stronger and simplified. If you keep the same basic setup around the clutch and brake masters, I'd be more that happy to make a version 2.0 of the carbon fibre mini skid.

Good lucky in the project and I can't wait to see the finished project. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

--Matt

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 28 2018, 03:48 PM

QUOTE(egon @ Aug 26 2018, 07:15 PM) *

Dan,

A big thank you for buying and rebuilding the Screamsicle. I helped Paul with the car for about 6 years. I am also the purveyor of the Gas Can.

I fixed many systems on the car but never got the chance to fully refine them. I'm a bit anal about certain things, i.e. how it looks or can it be simpler. A good example in the "octopus". Once we figured out all the issues with the old one, I build the one on the car from scratch that was stronger and simplified. If you keep the same basic setup around the clutch and brake masters, I'd be more that happy to make a version 2.0 of the carbon fibre mini skid.

Good lucky in the project and I can't wait to see the finished project. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions.

--Matt


Thanks Matt. My earlier reply didn't get sent for some reason.
I really appreciate the craftsmanship that you put into your work. I was just looking at the Octopus about an hour ago and noticed the touches you put in the supports. Very high quality. I think I can save the skid. it's intact with two of the bolts ripped out in the impact. It's actually something I'm watching as I put it back together to make sure it fits the same.

Sooo, what is in that gas can??

Thanks,
Dan

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 28 2018, 04:39 PM

Update on Mondays progress...

Finally I was able to pull the car in and begin analysis. I spent the day going over the engine to determine what and if there is anything wrong with it. The lifter noise is bothersome but apparently it's a byproduct of aluminum block and heads, high lift cam, headers. My "fix" for this was to make some insulator panels from another project that fit and cover up the headers, leaving the top of the engine exposed. I started the engine and the noise was drastically reduced. I then pulled the panels out with the engine running and it was obvious that the noise was being transmitted thru the headers. I don't know if I can make something that will reduced the noise and still allow heat to dissipate. That is something to work on. Maybe some header wrap. I'll still be going thru the motions of pulling the valve covers, checking lifters, and ensuring all is well under the hood.

A couple of other things I found in my investigation.
The stethascope test revieled that non of the lifters were noiser that any others.
it also revieled that there is also a very noisy injector or 2 that I will be replacing.
1 cylinder (#5) is very weak when checking header temp cyl to cyl. Like 1/2 of the others. The compression test showed that cylinder to be one of the highest, so it's likely an injector, or coil/wire/plug.
All the cyls compression tested between 160 and 180.
There was one plug that was loose, (#4) the others very tight.
There was one plug wire (#1) that lost the end when I removed it. It might have been ok or not before I started messing with things.
The Bore-scope showed a nice pretty interior of the cylinders.

Apparently there is a known problem with the pickup tube getting an O-ring nick on installation that can cause oil pressure to give a false reading (mixing air and oil)
All this can cause the lifter tick in some cars. I need to replace the oil pan gasket, so Ill put that on my list for that job. I also want see if there is any additional baffling I can do 'while I'm in there'.

Today (Tuesday) was spent with the Datsun back in the shop. Some additional Weber tweaks, fixing the chokes and most importantly adding a return line back to the fuel tank helped it run way better. Still needs more work, but first he's going to put some mufflers on that monster.

Tomorrow is another day. hope to begin tear down!

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 28 2018, 08:39 PM

Here's a suspension question...

If I convert the 911 Bilstein struts over to coil overs...
https://www.rsrproducts.com/product-page/rebel-s-racing-rsr-products-front-coil-over-kit

Would I be able to use the 914 control arms from the other car and connect them to the 911 struts/tie rods/and aluminum center section. Just how interchangeable are the 914 and 911 lower control arms?

trying to kill to birds with one stone.

or leave it as is.. (still need to repair broken lower control arm, possibly RS lower ball joint.)

Porsche 930 Turbo (1988) front suspension complete with aluminum cross
member
• Tangerine Racing 32 mm thru body front sway bar kit with adjustable drop links
• Porsche 930 22 mm Torsion Bars
• Elephant Racing poly bronze control arm bushings
• Elephant Racing de-cambered ball joints
• Rear trailing arms boxed and strengthened
• Bump steer kit
• Steering rack limiter kit
• Bilstein front struts and rear coil-overs
• Eibach 250lb. rear springs, top hats modified with spring helper sleeve and
powder coated, strengthened double wall rear shock towers

Posted by: ChrisFoley Aug 29 2018, 07:10 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 28 2018, 06:39 PM) *


Apparently there is a known problem with the pickup tube getting an O-ring nick on installation that can cause oil pressure to give a false reading (mixing air and oil)
All this can cause the lifter tick in some cars. I need to replace the oil pan gasket, so Ill put that on my list for that job. I also want see if there is any additional baffling I can do 'while I'm in there'.


We replaced the oil pump when the crank was out for new rod bearings. I think that a nicked o-ring was the cause of the spun rod bearing. We were very careful not to allow that to happen during installation of the new pump.

The pistons were left in the cylinders with the rods hanging down while the crank was out.

Not sure if I have the lifter p/n that the GM performance shop used when they replaced the camshaft but I might have that info (in deep storage) somewhere in my old records. In my office I have a box containing the old (1.7 ratio aluminum) rocker arms. A couple have damaged rod cups but would otherwise be re-usable. The box they're in is a Comp Cams Roller Lifter box (p/n 839-16) but no idea if it is from the lifters used in that engine.

Posted by: ChrisFoley Aug 29 2018, 07:15 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 28 2018, 10:39 PM) *

Here's a suspension question...

If I convert the 911 Bilstein struts over to coil overs...
https://www.rsrproducts.com/product-page/rebel-s-racing-rsr-products-front-coil-over-kit

Would I be able to use the 914 control arms from the other car and connect them to the 911 struts/tie rods/and aluminum center section. Just how interchangeable are the 914 and 911 lower control arms?
...


The only substantial difference between 914-4 and 911 a-arms is the forward spline embedded in the torsion bar tube. Anti-sway bar mounts can be changed easily enough where necessary. There are no other meaningful differences afaik.

Posted by: 914forme Aug 29 2018, 02:26 PM

And the different in spline count on the 914-4 to 911 arms means different torsion bars are required. The -4 arms will work in the AL crossbar, just need to use the -4 adjuster caps instead of the 911 stuff.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 29 2018, 10:17 PM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Aug 29 2018, 06:10 AM) *


We replaced the oil pump when the crank was out for new rod bearings. I think that a nicked o-ring was the cause of the spun rod bearing. We were very careful not to allow that to happen during installation of the new pump.

The pistons were left in the cylinders with the rods hanging down while the crank was out.

Not sure if I have the lifter p/n that the GM performance shop used when they replaced the camshaft but I might have that info (in deep storage) somewhere in my old records. In my office I have a box containing the old (1.7 ratio aluminum) rocker arms. A couple have damaged rod cups but would otherwise be re-usable. The box they're in is a Comp Cams Roller Lifter box (p/n 839-16) but no idea if it is from the lifters used in that engine.


Well, knowing you were in there last makes me feel better. I'm not getting any foaming, so it may be just fine. The other thing I wanted to look at oil pan wise was the oil pan baffling for hard cornering. I suspect it's pretty good stock, but was wondering.

I thought the 1.8s were in there prior to the cam swap. But I guess it makes sense to put a smaller cam in and add the 1.8 rockers to get some of the lift back. Then you could just swap to 1.7s if it wasn't enough to solve the problem. I know it had a lot of problems with pulling studs out of the aluminum head so they went to shaft rockers. I think it's a good plan, I doubt I would ever go back to that nightmare again.

You don't happen to know the latest cam specs do you? from that literally 1 foot stack of papers, that seems to be missing. I guess I can go through them again.
I think I figured out the exhaust specs.
Exhaust only...

114 LSA I don't know if this changes with a 1.8 rocker.
.537 lift (measured on 1.7 rocker)
.565 lift (calculated of internet for 1.8 rocker)

224 duration
235 duration estimate with 1.8 rocker.

again this is exhaust only, but it gives an idea...

Had a little fun today. It's something I do anytime I get a chance. Open Headers.
The funny part is the 1/8" spacers falling off. I didn't know what it was so I shut it down. But, you get the point. smile.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f-P6CaALPw&feature=youtu.be





Posted by: dan10101 Aug 29 2018, 10:36 PM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Aug 29 2018, 06:15 AM) *

The only substantial difference between 914-4 and 911 a-arms is the forward spline embedded in the torsion bar tube. Anti-sway bar mounts can be changed easily enough where necessary. There are no other meaningful differences afaik.


QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 29 2018, 01:26 PM) *

And the different in spline count on the 914-4 to 911 arms means different torsion bars are required. The -4 arms will work in the AL crossbar, just need to use the -4 adjuster caps instead of the 911 stuff.


Ok, so I think I have 2 options.
My current setup is all 911.
If I use the control arms from the 914, I can use the front and rear connections to the 911 torsion bar and use the 914 control arm with my 22mm 911 torsion bar. My issue there is is already has Elephant racing bushings. I would need to replace the pressed on bushing onto the 914 control arm. (that is actually an issue with either solution. )

If I buy the coil over kit it doesn't matter which cap ends I use since I won't be using a torsion bar. But I still need a solution to the Elephant racing bushings that are on the bent/broken drivers control arm .

I guess I have a third option. To repair and reinforce the bent/broken drivers side control arm. Then I can keep the elephant racing bushings intact.

One other suspension issue is the cap missing from the passenger side lower ball joint. I'll look at that tomorrow and see if it's loose or not.

Oh, one success for today is all the suspension is off the car. Well, except for the sway bar and the aluminum cross bar on the front end. The fuel line went thru it, so I need to drain the fuel tank to remove it. Not a bad thing, just messy.

I have to say this car is a dream to work on. So clean, so well put together. I did a rusty old jeep a few months ago. Uggg......

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Posted by: dan10101 Aug 30 2018, 01:03 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 24 2018, 04:43 PM) *

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Aug 24 2018, 01:01 PM) *

What ET did you determine you need?


Math ug...

1"=25.5mm

It's 50mm et now.
plus 3" spacer 76.5mm
If i move it back to a 1" spacer and a 0et, I would be just outside the current location by .5mm

0 ET calculations.
-76.5mm + 50mm = 26.5mm
1" spacer = 25.5mm
leaving 1mm difference, ( can live with that but not much more)

-26.5mm ET calculations
-76.5mm + 50mm = -26.5mm

So, if you're still reading.
either 0mm ET
or -26ish ET

The deeper the better...



Ok, so the fronts are 3" the rears are 2". It's really tight for the rear tires. 11" with only supposed to fit 10". I think I'm going to repair the 2 front rims and go with what I have for right now. Then I can explore other options later.

Posted by: ChrisFoley Aug 30 2018, 07:42 AM

I found the 6/24/2010 invoice from J&M Motorsports with p/n info:
Comp Cams Camshaft LS1: 3114R/3753R 54-000-11
T&D 1.8 Ratio Rockers: PK-1.8 TD
LS1 Valve Spring Upgrade Kit: TFS-2500300
Valve Cover Spacers: 3060800
5/16 x .116 4130 7.300 Pushrods 5116-7300

Use 911 a-arms. You want those big torsion bars or you'll end up with oversteer again.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 30 2018, 10:02 AM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Aug 30 2018, 06:42 AM) *

I found the 6/24/2010 invoice from J&M Motorsports with p/n info:
Comp Cams Camshaft LS1: 3114R/3753R 54-000-11
T&D 1.8 Ratio Rockers: PK-1.8 TD
LS1 Valve Spring Upgrade Kit: TFS-2500300
Valve Cover Spacers: 3060800
5/16 x .116 4130 7.300 Pushrods 5116-7300

Use 911 a-arms. You want those big torsion bars or you'll end up with oversteer again.


Thanks Chris. I have that, but I did some more searching and finally found a Comp Cams PDF that shows their grind specs. I don't know why they don't refer you to that when you search their website. Those pushrod numbers may come in handy down the road a bit..

I meant to point out that the comp cam number 54-000-11 is a cam blank for custom grinds. But the PDF I found shows the specs on the grinds so we're good.

In English the advertised specs with 1.7 rockers are:
Intake .544 lift 281 duration
Exhaust .534 lift 278 duration

With 1.8 rockers
intake .576 lift 295 duration
exhaust .565 lift 291 duration

This is all more for me so I can find it later.
http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2011/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2011_417-493.pdf


As far as the control arm question. Can you get elephant bushing sleeve that press onto the replacement control arm without having to order the whole set?

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 31 2018, 12:10 AM

Thursday update

I finished with removing the suspension and made an executive decision to not pull the engine. What can I say, I'm lazy and was only going to do it because I was curious. Well, I'm not that curious. So I decided to just pull the trans so i could connect the jig to the rear trans mounts. So the trans is now out and the next step is to connect the Jig to the body and see where we stand.
The initial try showed me ai need to trim some excess material around one of the plates in the back. Then it should drop down.

I did notice that a prior mod to mount the clutch and brake master cylinders eliminated one of the mounting points for the drivers front control arm. I'll need to see if that will be a problem keeping it from dropping down all the way. Or if I need to put it back or just eliminate it.

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Posted by: 914forme Aug 31 2018, 07:55 AM

So the 911 Torsion bar will not fit the 914-4 arms.

If you go coil over torsion bars do not matter. I would get a plug for the end of the arm though.

Elephant Racing Bushings are nice, and for the poly bronze set I had, they sold me a set of the base sleeves front and rear when I swapped the control arms and rear arms. I would just contact them and see if they can provide sleeves for the arms. You could also have a set machined. And if they are not damaged the instructions say to install with a base of JB weld if required. JB weld can be neutralized with a bit of heat from a torch and they will pull off if reduced effort.



Posted by: burton73 Aug 31 2018, 12:31 PM

I want to point out that the suspension points is there on your car just the one piece shown was removed to fit the box for the peddles for brake and clutch master. My V8 car with 930 is the same. Bill that built your car was very kind to me and gave me the bent metal to fit these parts. The suspension is bolted to the front points and the point where the rack is. The under-sway bar point on the driver’s side is not there and our cars (mine and yours) need the over the top bar like you have. Now the cover will not have 4 points to bolt up. I am working that out


Bob B
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Posted by: 914forme Aug 31 2018, 03:54 PM

Bob and Dan, you don't need it as three points make a plane. I would just add a piece to keep the noise down from vibration and be done.

I have the same issue with my pedal box, I think I can replicate the threaded receiver for the under tray as it is in the same plane as the floor. So I have an early metal cross bar that I will use to make sure it is in the correct place. Also have a long stick to measure the distance back to the rear suspension console. And of course that measurement is documented off these points in the drawings I have. My MCs are all inside the car on my box as of right now, as I wanted to be able to adjust the pedals if need be.

Most likely another detail I over thought on that car. confused24.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 31 2018, 07:11 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 31 2018, 06:55 AM) *

So the 911 Torsion bar will not fit the 914-4 arms.

If you go coil over torsion bars do not matter. I would get a plug for the end of the arm though.

Elephant Racing Bushings are nice, and for the poly bronze set I had, they sold me a set of the base sleeves front and rear when I swapped the control arms and rear arms. I would just contact them and see if they can provide sleeves for the arms. You could also have a set machined. And if they are not damaged the instructions say to install with a base of JB weld if required. JB weld can be neutralized with a bit of heat from a torch and they will pull off if reduced effort.


I'll see if they will come off easily. If not and I can get sleeves from ER, I'll do that. Good to know you were able to do that.

I probably will just get another new 911 A-Arm. I don't want it to be weird down the road with 1 914 and 1 911. Then I can start with the existing 22mm torsion bars and then later I can change to coil overs.



Posted by: dan10101 Aug 31 2018, 07:19 PM

QUOTE(burton73 @ Aug 31 2018, 11:31 AM) *

I want to point out that the suspension points is there on your car just the one piece shown was removed to fit the box for the peddles for brake and clutch master. My V8 car with 930 is the same. Bill that built your car was very kind to me and gave me the bent metal to fit these parts. The suspension is bolted to the front points and the point where the rack is. The under-sway bar point on the driver’s side is not there and our cars (mine and yours) need the over the top bar like you have. Now the cover will not have 4 points to bolt up. I am working that out

Bob B


Looks like a nice build. How long ago was that?

I don't see the cover as structural. Although the original strap seemed to be. Here's what happened to this one in the wreck.

Attached Image

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 31 2018, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(914forme @ Aug 31 2018, 02:54 PM) *

Bob and Dan, you don't need it as three points make a plane. I would just add a piece to keep the noise down from vibration and be done.

I have the same issue with my pedal box, I think I can replicate the threaded receiver for the under tray as it is in the same plane as the floor. So I have an early metal cross bar that I will use to make sure it is in the correct place. Also have a long stick to measure the distance back to the rear suspension console. And of course that measurement is documented off these points in the drawings I have. My MCs are all inside the car on my box as of right now, as I wanted to be able to adjust the pedals if need be.

Most likely another detail I over thought on that car. confused24.gif


I like the carbon fiber cover to protect the master cylinders. But I may move them over to the drivers left a bit. I feel like I'm twisting myself to reach the pedals. And my not so big feet feel really big. I also plan to lower and turn the drivers seat a degree or 2 to put the steering wheel in front of the driver.

I will probably run a tube from the strut tower to the front of the lower control arm. probably overkill, but i don't want any question of the strength.

Posted by: dan10101 Aug 31 2018, 07:44 PM

Friday Update
In trying to lower the car onto the jig I ran into a few spots that needed work.
trimming the front of the rear lower control arm.
eliminating the motor mounts
eliminating the point where the master and clutch cylinder are located, ( as just discussed)
And unfortunately eliminating the rear trans mounts. Apparently they are modified and my pickups were too long. However, they were located in the right position forward to back. That at least told me it should have been correct. Also they removed the slant. I tried to do the same, but they are still to long. so I just hacked them off. the other pickup points in the rear started easily with finger threading the bolts. So i'm confident the rear section is in the right location.

The pictures below are where the front pickup points differ from the Jig. that will soon be 'fixed'.

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Posted by: burton73 Aug 31 2018, 08:21 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Aug 31 2018, 06:19 PM) *

QUOTE(burton73 @ Aug 31 2018, 11:31 AM) *

I want to point out that the suspension points is there on your car just the one piece shown was removed to fit the box for the peddles for brake and clutch master. My V8 car with 930 is the same. Bill that built your car was very kind to me and gave me the bent metal to fit these parts. The suspension is bolted to the front points and the point where the rack is. The under-sway bar point on the driver’s side is not there and our cars (mine and yours) need the over the top bar like you have. Now the cover will not have 4 points to bolt up. I am working that out

Bob B


Looks like a nice build. How long ago was that?

I don't see the cover as structural. Although the original strap seemed to be. Here's what happened to this one in the wreck.

Attached Image



Shot today!

Bob B

Posted by: 914forme Sep 1 2018, 10:21 AM

Oh I thought you where replacing both sides.

Yes keep them the same otherwise down the road it would get confusing.

As for the lower cover I like the idea of laying up a carbon fiber cover, which I did not think about, but will be stealing that idea for my build.


Posted by: dan10101 Sep 7 2018, 11:18 PM


Finally another update

I haven’t been resting on my laurels, whatever those are…
After connecting the white car to the Jig I made a half-assed attempt at a pull to see what that would look like. I quickly determined that the front jig arms need to be removed in order to make the pulls.

I should take a step back and say that I decided to try to pull the front end back into the proper location. I’ll still be replacing much of the front end, but this will make a better starting point.

So the week has been a bunch of background work, drilling holes for the cross braces so they could be relocated into the correct position once I was ready to check the pulls or begin attaching the new front end sheet metal. Then I cut off the cross bracing taking off the front suspension point arms with them. I did actually reattach the trans mounts to the Jig. Just another strength point more than anything else.
I ordered a set of pulling rams from Harbor Freight. 25% off helps.

I’m still experimenting with bracing, and how to lock down the chassis to make the pulls. I found a nearby tree that may come in handy. The problem is the pulls need to be down and the tree is ….up the hill.

I also made a tool to measure different points from one chassis to the other. I know that’s what the jig is for, but this is for double checking.

All that and some more Datsun tuning.

That's about all for now..
Thanks for listening to my babbling..

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 8 2018, 02:41 AM

Why don't you pull down on your jig? Reinforce the base some more so it can't move/twist with pulling and pull on it after anchoring it to the floor?

Those construction grade expansion bolts have really high tinsel strength, like 2k lbs each for a 3/8" bolt. Plenty to keep the jig in place while making pulls.

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 8 2018, 09:07 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 8 2018, 01:41 AM) *

Why don't you pull down on your jig? Reinforce the base some more so it can't move/twist with pulling and pull on it after anchoring it to the floor?

Those construction grade expansion bolts have really high tinsel strength, like 2k lbs each for a 3/8" bolt. Plenty to keep the jig in place while making pulls.


I actually bought anchor bolts yesterday. 3/4" because I already have a good hammer drill bit in that size. I still plan to build arms to pull from, but if I can get at least one maybe 2 pulls done without building a contraption, I'll be ahead of the game. The pull point would need to be about 2-3 feet away from the jig if I build something. It's these little side projects that take up so much time.

Car show weekend. Cars and Coffee, Jacksonville Car show, and 4x4 truck show.

Posted by: ChrisFoley Sep 8 2018, 09:59 AM

Rather than anchor my platform directly to my floor I set screw anchors in the floor a short distance outboard of the corners, and then threaded forged eyebolts into them.
I welded short angle irons to the beams of the platform with a hole in the protruding leg and used heavy turnbuckles to attach between the angle irons and the eyebolts.
That way I can easily remove them when I'm done and the floor won't have anything sticking out.

Posted by: Cracker Sep 8 2018, 10:09 AM

agree.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 8 2018, 10:26 AM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Sep 8 2018, 08:59 AM) *

... I set screw anchors in the floor a short distance outboard of the corners, and then threaded forged eyebolts into them.


I don't quite get this part.

Is this kinda what you're talking about?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Shield-Anchor-Eye-Bolt-M8-Bolt-M12-Shield-By-65mm-Length-Yzp-Pack-Of-12/362209513029?hash=item54555e8e45:g:zWUAAOSwQN5aVfYm

Not shipping to the US..
https://www.amazon.co.uk/M12-Eye-Bolt-Shield-Anchor/dp/B01BYG3F8C/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1536423531&sr=8-4&keywords=eye+bolt+m12

Any good hardware resources online?

Posted by: ChrisFoley Sep 8 2018, 11:57 AM

Not quite. Eyebolts like that won't handle the loads.
These are what I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/97083a330
https://www.mcmaster.com/3014t491
https://www.mcmaster.com/3001t54

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 8 2018, 09:44 PM

QUOTE(ChrisFoley @ Sep 8 2018, 10:57 AM) *

Not quite. Eyebolts like that won't handle the loads.
These are what I used:
https://www.mcmaster.com/97083a330
https://www.mcmaster.com/3014t491
https://www.mcmaster.com/3001t54


Thanks for the quick reply. I happened to be in Lowes at the time and was able to find the female screw anchors there. No eyebolts, but I'll order or make something. I also picked up some turnbuckles.

Still exploring options for pulling. I anticipate making a contraption to make the main pull. Then we'll go from there.

Thanks again everyone for pitching in with suggestions.

Posted by: 914forme Sep 9 2018, 07:57 AM

Forged Turnbuckels, the cheapies found in most box hardware stores will bust open with shrapnel flying if your unlucky. If lucky they stretch and snap, lots of potential energy built up in the turn buckle.

Be safe man, don't skimp on the basic hardware.

Chris's suggestions are great.

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 9 2018, 08:53 AM

QUOTE(914forme @ Sep 9 2018, 06:57 AM) *

Forged Turnbuckels, the cheapies found in most box hardware stores will bust open with shrapnel flying if your unlucky. If lucky they stretch and snap, lots of potential energy built up in the turn buckle.

Be safe man, don't skimp on the basic hardware.

Chris's suggestions are great.


The ones I got were from Coastal. 2200# like the ones Chris posted.
But good point. Weak links and all that... I'll try not to use them just take up slack in other ways.

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 10 2018, 10:30 PM

Today's update:

I decided to try to remove the Elephant bushings (races) from the broken lower control arm. I heated it up with a torch to break the JB weld that is supposed to be holding them on. I did get it to move, but not without making a mess of the bushing/race. So I made a call to Elephant and found they do indeed sell just the races. $50 and they'll be here in a couple days.

Next was to remove the decambered ball joint. I spent way too long modifying another tool to fit the ball joint. But alas, it was too much for me and after almost sending myself to the hospital (no I'm fine) I went to plan B. No worries, the control arm is toast so I just cut a notch in it and popped it with a chisel. Came out easy doing that and no damage to the threads or ball joint. Why didn't I think of that in the first place...

Ordered a new ball joint nut and 911 control arm.
Should be good to go in a few days.
Having two good control arms in hand will make the next steps easier.

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Posted by: dan10101 Sep 14 2018, 08:54 PM

Happy 914 Day!

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Posted by: Andyrew Sep 15 2018, 12:30 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Sep 14 2018, 07:54 PM) *

Happy 914 Day!

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Posted by: dan10101 Sep 21 2018, 04:18 PM

A bit overdue for an update. But the biggest one is I'm still waiting on the pump for the rams. The original one I ordered will do fine as a replacement pump for my engine hoist jack. So I reordered the correct hand pump 10ton.

in the meantime. I've gathered most of the parts I needed for suspension repair. i picked up a new lower control arm. New Elephant Racing 'races' for the same. New ball joint rings and a new tie rod end to replace the bent one. I put together the new control arm and it's ready to go. The pass side lower ball joint was missing the plug on the bottom. Remember these are cambered ball joints that go for 380 a pair. They are both very tight and in great condition. Well the pass side took some downward force that popped the Epoxied plug out of the bottom. I was able to easily push it back into place with just the right amount of force. I made a replacement plug and epoxied it back in place. I just need to steal a good boot off the blue car and hope it fits, then the control arms will be ready to go.
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i installed the inner and outer tie rod ends on the Drivers side of the rack. The only problem there was not having a skinny wrench to remove and install the inner end. i was proud of my shade tree invention to make my fat wrench work.
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i need to pick up a needle greaser since none of this has zert fittings. Well the Elephant racing bushings do. yay!

I did some sanding on the hood to make it ready for some fiberglass repair. I put my WCC 914 hoodie to good use to keep me from itching all day.
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I was able to find the concrete anchors that Chris and others recommended. It works much better than having bolts sticking up. I was able to anchor the car on 4 sides and it's not going anywhere.

Probably the best thing that happened over the last week or 2 is that a good friend from church is a former bodyman. He's done many of these types of repairs. And from the pictures they were done very well. He even built an all steel 914 gt race car body. I invited him over to see and analyze the damage from an experts point of view and since he's retired and bored, he jumped at the chance.

He came up with several options of where to cut, how to pull, types of stitching, etc. Fortunately for me one of my favorite options was one of his options. We still haven't decided on the where to cut part, but we will once the pulls are made and it's somewhat straight.

On to actual repairing of the car! Since I don't have a proper puller, I started using the 8k come-along and pulling out the driver door hinge area. it's pretty close. looking at the donor/blue car hinge area, it actually has a tear and rust near the bolts, so I may be piecing two of these together.

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Posted by: Andyrew Sep 22 2018, 11:03 AM

You should post a picture of the bracing you did to the lift smile.gif

Great progress!!!


That hood will be easier to repair than you think I bet smile.gif

Posted by: dan10101 Sep 22 2018, 11:24 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 22 2018, 10:03 AM) *

You should post a picture of the bracing you did to the lift smile.gif

Great progress!!!

That hood will be easier to repair than you think I bet smile.gif


This is what Andrew was talking about. I put a brace across the top to keep the top ridged. It in there tight. The bolts are just to keep it from falling on my head.
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I don't mind fiberglass work, i just hate the sanding. So far that hasn't been so bad. I need to do some reinforcement where the bad cracks, now holes are. But even my body man friend (Michael) said that won't be a problem.

Posted by: dan10101 Oct 4 2018, 10:48 PM

We finished with pulling the body prior to cutting the front end off. The intention here was not to make it straight, but to move the body back into position so when we attach the new pieces they will line up.

This week (and most of last week) is all about replenishing the empty bankbook. I'm taking 21 bins of auto parts to The Medford (Swap) Meet. Also, lots of stuff that won't fit in bins. Eventually there will even be some 914 parts but not this trip. I keep everything until I'm sure I don't need it. (yes, that's why I have 21 bins...)
Hey, any other swap meets around? I'm thinking I need another one before I unload all the leftovers...

before pulls
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after pulls
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Posted by: dan10101 Oct 18 2018, 04:02 PM

Update for 10-18-18
We gave it a BOB!
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Ok, stepping back a bit. The swap meet was a financial success, but I ended up with about the same amount of parts left over. Still it was worth it to keep the project moving.

Getting back to the car.
I removed all the parts and accessories from the front end and after careful consideration (and going back and forth a bit) Michael (my bodyman friend and advisor) and I determined where the first cuts would be.
Then we went for it! Off with its nose!
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I then started drilling out spot welds for the driver’s side damage using a nice tool that Michael brought over. I spent the next 2 days peeling off the sheet metal between the door jam and the tower. I’ll have a bit of cleanup to do where the spot welds were, but it will be stronger and fully welded when it’s back together.
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Next up is more measuring and documenting on the blue car. Then we’ll begin spot weld drilling on the blue car.

Posted by: dan10101 Oct 18 2018, 04:07 PM

Once the inner fender was removed, I saw an opportunity to increase the foot pedal space by removing a boxed section. It’s already been reinforced with the pedal mount and I’ll add more to it by tying it into the long. I may even sacrifice some more inner fender to gain foot space. The tire can’t reach that section and its one area that I want to improve.

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Posted by: Andyrew Oct 18 2018, 10:47 PM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Oct 18 2018, 03:07 PM) *

Once the inner fender was removed, I saw an opportunity to increase the foot pedal space by removing a boxed section. It’s already been reinforced with the pedal mount and I’ll add more to it by tying it into the long. I may even sacrifice some more inner fender to gain foot space. The tire can’t reach that section and its one area that I want to improve.

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I can't say I've seen this before but it shouldn't be an issue for your caged end result. Plus I'm sure you'll box it in appropriately when everything else is done smile.gif

I like the progress on cutting it all out! Spot welds will make things easy to reweld.

Posted by: dan10101 Oct 18 2018, 11:20 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Oct 18 2018, 09:47 PM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Oct 18 2018, 03:07 PM) *

Once the inner fender was removed, I saw an opportunity to increase the foot pedal space by removing a boxed section. It’s already been reinforced with the pedal mount and I’ll add more to it by tying it into the long. I may even sacrifice some more inner fender to gain foot space. The tire can’t reach that section and its one area that I want to improve.

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I can't say I've seen this before but it shouldn't be an issue for your caged end result. Plus I'm sure you'll box it in appropriately when everything else is done smile.gif



Yeah, it would probably be fine, but I'll probably add some reinforcement to this section between the long and the inner fender. I'm surprised that factory left the inner top portion of the long unattached to the inner fender.
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Posted by: ChrisFoley Oct 19 2018, 05:13 AM

Looks good Dan!

Posted by: tygaboy Oct 19 2018, 08:32 AM

NICE work! That has to be a bit nerve wracking to slice off that much of your baby. Crunched up, but still... good on you.
Keep up the great progress! aktion035.gif

Posted by: Zippy69 Oct 19 2018, 10:14 AM

Wow Amazing dissection Dan! I am actually seeing some parts of the car that I have never seen before. Just when I thought I have seen every inch.

Incredible amount of progress in 3 short months. You have been very busy. It is clear this car landed in the right persons hands! Keep up the good work and updates.

Thx,

Previous owner (and guy who wrecked it) Paul

Posted by: dan10101 Oct 19 2018, 10:33 AM

Thanks everyone.

I know there are those that could do it better, but I have a good mentor looking over my shoulder keeping me honest. I probably wouldn't have taken it down this far, but I'm glad I did. Yeah, it was tough cutting it up, but I had plenty of time to prepare myself for it.

Eye on the prize..

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Posted by: dan10101 Nov 3 2018, 09:24 AM

Ok, at least I feel like I'm making some progress.. Believe it or not I've been working almost every day. My days aren't as long as others, but as long as I don't stop, it will eventually get done.

sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif sawzall-smiley.gif

I still have a bunch of cleanup work. Drilling spot welds, trimming different sections. figuring out the strut tower.

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Posted by: My 914 Nov 3 2018, 10:49 AM

I admire your patience in working on this project.

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 3 2018, 10:51 AM

GREAT shot! Makes me feel like I'm sitting in an operating theater, privileged to be observing MAJOR surgery! Wait.... I am!

Keep up the awesome work, Dan. As you said, continual progress, little though it may be at some times, and all of a sudden, it'll be done! Thanks for taking us on this journey.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 3 2018, 01:40 PM

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body man mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 3 2018, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 3 2018, 09:51 AM) *

GREAT shot! Makes me feel like I'm sitting in an operating theater, privileged to be observing MAJOR surgery! Wait.... I am!

Keep up the awesome work, Dan. As you said, continual progress, little though it may be at some times, and all of a sudden, it'll be done! Thanks for taking us on this journey.


Right back at you Chris.
However,
I feel like I'm doing this build for the rest of us mier mortals.
welder.gif beer3.gif

Posted by: tygaboy Nov 4 2018, 08:47 AM

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Nov 3 2018, 11:40 AM) *

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body an mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.


I hear you on the changing direction thing! unsure.gif wacko.gif

Posted by: KELTY360 Nov 4 2018, 09:33 AM

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 4 2018, 07:47 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Nov 3 2018, 11:40 AM) *

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body an mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.


I hear you on the changing direction thing! unsure.gif wacko.gif


Isn't the best thing about the 914 is the ability to change direction?

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 4 2018, 11:04 AM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Nov 4 2018, 08:33 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 4 2018, 07:47 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Nov 3 2018, 11:40 AM) *

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body an mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.


I hear you on the changing direction thing! unsure.gif wacko.gif


Isn't the best thing about the 914 is the ability to change direction?

QUOTE
Isn't the best thing about the 914 is the ability to change direction?

av-943.gif popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: My 914 Nov 4 2018, 12:33 PM

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Nov 4 2018, 11:33 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 4 2018, 07:47 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Nov 3 2018, 11:40 AM) *

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body an mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.


I hear you on the changing direction thing! unsure.gif wacko.gif


Isn't the best thing about the 914 is the ability to change direction?



It's also one of the best things about life.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 4 2018, 02:29 PM

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 4 2018, 11:33 AM) *

QUOTE(KELTY360 @ Nov 4 2018, 11:33 AM) *

QUOTE(tygaboy @ Nov 4 2018, 07:47 AM) *

QUOTE(dan10101 @ Nov 3 2018, 11:40 AM) *

QUOTE(My 914 @ Nov 3 2018, 09:49 AM) *

I admire your patience in working on this project.


smile.gif my patience is driving by body an mentor crazy. He keeps telling me it would be done by now if he was doing it.

I will admit to changing directions several times.


I hear you on the changing direction thing! unsure.gif wacko.gif


Isn't the best thing about the 914 is the ability to change direction?


It's also one of the best things about life.


Yep, nothing like a good directional change to get the adrenaline flowing.


Posted by: dan10101 Nov 7 2018, 08:17 PM

Progress is being made. Yay!
So I trimmed off the excess metal bracketry and removed the strut towers. So the areas where the ‘spot welds are just about ready. What’s left is to determine where the metal to metal connections will be made. The area in question will be just ahead of the vin on the RF inner fender. So about 12” of fine metal work should hide the seam. The rest can be not so fine, but will be plenty strong.

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At this time I realized I had a lot of paint prep to do. I chose the easy way out and took it to my local media blaster. They did a fine job of cleaning up the pieces. The big one and a few smaller ones.

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The next step is to dust off my paint gun and give priming a whirl. I'll have to get creative and put some heat into the job to get it to dry. At least we have some sunshine during the days. I'll close off a bit of the garage and turn up the space heaters.

I know there are other ways to do this, but I had to stop thinking about it and just do it. (as Michael would say) welder.gif

Side note: I met a guy with a 914-6 tube frame race car as I was at Napa buying paint. This was in White City, OR, anyone know someone in the area? We had a nice conversation but did exchange names.


Posted by: Andyrew Nov 8 2018, 11:05 AM

cheer.gif


Put space heaters on the metal about an hour before your painting. Take them off when the panels are about 90deg consistently, right before you spray. Should cool down quickly to about 70 so you will want to mix your primer before removing the heaters. I imagine you'll have about a 10 min window. Unless you can get the garage to about 70deg..

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 8 2018, 11:37 AM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 8 2018, 09:05 AM) *

cheer.gif


Put space heaters on the metal about an hour before your painting. Take them off when the panels are about 90deg consistently, right before you spray. Should cool down quickly to about 70 so you will want to mix your primer before removing the heaters. I imagine you'll have about a 10 min window. Unless you can get the garage to about 70deg..



I have 2 good space heaters. Have my heavy plastic to make walls to confine the heat and the overspray. I was going to do it outside, but it's likely to be 50-55 when I shoot. I forgot to have them blast the door, so I'll likely do that by hand.

I'm glad I picked it up last night. It would have been sitting outside in the dew and the frost. Safe in my shop. Nothing seems to rust in there.


Posted by: dan10101 Nov 12 2018, 08:00 PM


For those that missed the 'door' thread here's what I've been working on.
Trying to get the doors ready so I can prime them at the same time I do the rest.
(I hate cleaning guns and such)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=334383

So I took a timeout from the doors and helped my buddy install a 6" lift on his Jeep.
But back at it today.

I trimmed a bit of sheet metal off the white car, and while cleaning it up to get ready for welding with the wire grinder I caught a lip and spun it into my stomach. Fortunately it ate my new T-shirt and ended up with only a minor rash on my tummy. But, also twisted my thumb. It could have been much worse. I think taking it easy for a couple days and I'll be back full speed.

So it looks like the rust is holding off on the bare metal. Should I prime it anyway, or just get it connected to the car and finish the welding then prime the whole assembly?

I expect some rain in the next few weeks and colder weather. Maybe that's my answer, do it while the weather is 1/2 way decent.


Posted by: djway Nov 12 2018, 09:10 PM

I always spray with phosphoric acid diluted to the proper strength. It can remain rust free for quite some time after that. No need to prime

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 12 2018, 09:42 PM

Now is the best time to prime it. The oils in your hands will cause for issues with rusting as well as surface prep. I would lightly scuff the metal with a pad and wax and grease it then prime it. Thin it really well like I spoke and just give it two or three thin coats.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 12 2018, 10:54 PM

QUOTE(djway @ Nov 12 2018, 07:10 PM) *

I always spray with phosphoric acid diluted to the proper strength. It can remain rust free for quite some time after that. No need to prime


If I was doing this in spring thru summer, I would try it. Kevin Tetz from Trucks talked about something like this.

I really wanted to wait a bit, but I'm pushing a timeline against colder weather. It's going to be harder and harder to get this kind of weather for spraying. Plus I'll need another slot to get the color on it. At least the inside part so I can put it back together. I'll wait for the outer panels until it warms up.

Anyway it gives me a reason to push...

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 12 2018, 11:31 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Nov 12 2018, 07:42 PM) *

Now is the best time to prime it. The oils in your hands will cause for issues with rusting as well as surface prep. I would lightly scuff the metal with a pad and wax and grease it then prime it. Thin it really well like I spoke and just give it two or three thin coats.


I thought about that as well. It's so pristine, any fingerprint or glove print leaves a mark. (I need some clean gloves). I'll get this done in the next few days.

Here I am cleaning the welding areas under the car, It will be a pain working underneath hot sparks, but probably less painful than bending over the fender to do it from above. And it will look better...
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Here's me with the wire wheel accident. It just jumped into my shirt and dug in. I'll be putting a second handle on that grinder if I use it again.
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Posted by: djway Nov 13 2018, 12:31 AM

Even if you prime the finger touch will still be the same problem.
You always clean, clean, clean before you lay paint.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 13 2018, 01:01 AM

QUOTE(djway @ Nov 12 2018, 10:31 PM) *

Even if you prime the finger touch will still be the same problem.
You always clean, clean, clean before you lay paint.


Good point. Been there done that sold the car, but have the pictures to remind me of that booboo...

Posted by: 914forme Nov 13 2018, 08:42 AM

Don't forget to increase your gas flow if you can. Welding upside down with MIG or TIG can give you all sorts of fits as the shield gas is heavier that air, so your loosing the protection of the weld puddle.

Ben can go into way more details than I can on this one. You didn't happen to make the frame jig so you could lay it over on its side did you?

idea.gif for my build

Also your work is looking great, way to stay after it.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 13 2018, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(914forme @ Nov 13 2018, 06:42 AM) *

Don't forget to increase your gas flow if you can. Welding upside down with MIG or TIG can give you all sorts of fits as the shield gas is heavier that air, so your loosing the protection of the weld puddle.

Ben can go into way more details than I can on this one. You didn't happen to make the frame jig so you could lay it over on its side did you?

idea.gif for my build

Also your work is looking great, way to stay after it.



Good tip on the gas flow.

No I didn't make it to go upside down. (I've had enough of that this year..)

I'm using an Eastwood 175 MIG. If anyone has any welding tips or settings, I would appreciate it. I got a taste of welding thin sheetmetal on the door but I'll need more practice before I go in for the kill.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Nov 13 2018, 09:32 PM

Wear a dust mask to cut down on metallic boogers. Not good to breath all that shite.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 13 2018, 09:53 PM

Sneak Peak...

It's not quite there yet, but it's close...

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Posted by: dan10101 Nov 13 2018, 09:55 PM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Nov 13 2018, 07:32 PM) *

Wear a dust mask to cut down on metallic boogers. Not good to breath all that shite.


Yeah, after a hat, glasses, ear muffs, long sleeves, I tend to forget that part. Welding is even worse with that big old helmet.

Posted by: dan10101 Nov 16 2018, 12:09 AM

I put some primer on the replacement pieces.

Like the ‘this page is blank purposely’, there are a few spots that I didn’t prime, or left a bit sparse so that I could weld those spots without spending hours undoing today's work. I did previously put some weld thru primer on those spots.

Not actually a big deal to many, but for me, it’s the first time I did this on my own. Normally Andrew has his hands in this type of work. I’m feeling pretty accomplished for this mundane task. Prepping, building a ‘booth’, venting with a good fan, mixing paint (I got this wrong the first time), adjusting the gun and the compressor, laying down the wet stuff, finally cleaning up. It turned out pretty good. I’m just glad it’s all hidden by outer layers. smile.gif

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Posted by: Tbrown4x4 Nov 16 2018, 03:37 AM

QUOTE(Mike Bellis @ Nov 13 2018, 07:32 PM) *

Wear a dust mask to cut down on metallic boogers. Not good to breath all that shite.

Second that. My son's old boss (long time welder/shop owner) started getting random nose bleeds. When he finally went to the doctor, they found a large tumor in his nasal cavity. They are still trying to figure out how bad it is.

Wear your protective gear!

PS. Great work! Lots of fun to watch this process.

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