Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: worn Jul 11 2018, 06:11 PM

I have been wondering a lot lately if there is an equivalent of a light weight sports car like a 914 made for today’s drivers. The 914 seems to have been focused on driving, rather than comfort: my 61 Falcon was no less comfortable or optioned. I know they have to pass safety and emissions. A toybaru?

Posted by: sb914 Jul 11 2018, 06:26 PM

Where have you been?

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 11 2018, 06:45 PM

Miata is probably as close as we get this side of the pond for a reasonable cost.

My fiesta ST gave me a very 914'y vibe with all the 70's colors available, punchy throttle and amazing balance.

Toybaru is similar, geared towards more of a sports car than the Fiesta with a focus more on JDM nostalgia and driver feel than speed.


The Alpha Romeo 4c spyder and Lotus Elise if were going to compare relative costs is probably as close as we can go with the Alpha close to what a modern interpretation would be due to its luxury, as the 914 wasnt a stripped down car like the lotus, it was a refined modern sports car of its time.

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jul 11 2018, 06:48 PM

Like this?

Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 11 2018, 07:22 PM

Boxster and Cayman but they're heavier, the Lotus is about the only one that's ballpark the same weight.

Posted by: Philip W. Jul 11 2018, 07:57 PM

yes, this is close- of course it is heavier, isn't everything now compared to then? like a '72 911 vs a 2002 911- bigger , heavier but faster! so we have a mid engined car etc.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914forme Jul 11 2018, 08:42 PM

What about the Atom, designed only to be about driving, of course the new model the 4 has tipped the scales over the $104,000 mark



And it will give you a nice facial to boot.

Posted by: davesprinkle Jul 11 2018, 08:53 PM

MR2 Spyder

Posted by: Andyrew Jul 11 2018, 09:17 PM

Alfa

Posted by: Chris914n6 Jul 11 2018, 11:17 PM

I think it's the Nissan 240sx.

Common upgrades:
5 lug swap for bigger brakes and better wheel selection.
Underpowered. 145hp is not enough for 2800lbs.
Great driving dynamics.
Cheap, at least until drifting took off. Now you can't find an unmolested example.
Rust problems, mostly from the rear wing and C-pillar drainage.
Easiest motor upgrade is the home market 200hp 2.0L turbo.
Other swaps.... Nissan I6, V6 and V8, Toyota I6 and V8, plus SBC and LSx.
Body kits galore.

Sounds like a 914 to me

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 12 2018, 12:09 AM

I think the mid engine is and important part of what makes the 914 what it is. The Boxster is of the type but so much heavier. The Lotus and the Alfa are the same type of layout except for the transverse engine and trans combo but that design centers the weight even more that the longitudinal format. There's no true comparison these days - that's why we try to bring a modern vibe to our little cars. There is a type of annoying magic to the original type of restorations but the ones that are modified with modern drivetrains may be the answer with improved driveability and good manners, real heat, and real a/c. Not disparaging the original design at all - very good for the time. But if we upgrade most systems and still retain that balance and charm, we've made the modern 914.

Posted by: Mueller Jul 12 2018, 12:44 AM

Alpine A110?

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Jul 12 2018, 04:37 AM

Boxster

Posted by: Beebo Kanelle Jul 12 2018, 04:48 AM

For me the closest equivalent is the Toyota MR2 Spyder.

Posted by: Racer Jul 12 2018, 05:46 AM

Ideally a "modern" 914 is mid-engine with an open top... so Lotus Elise, Alfa 4C, MR2 spyder. As for Porsche, the bargain equivalent is a 986 Boxster.

Miata is a close second if only because it has been around so long and is such a versatile platform, despite not being mid-engined. Race car. Street car. AX/DE car. Grocery getter etc. Cheap to buy and maintain. Strong aftermarket support etc.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jul 12 2018, 07:07 AM

I can say that driving a BRZ/FRS/AE86 whatever you call them now feels a LOT like driving a modern 914, even though its a front/rear setup instead of mid engine.

So much so that I have been considering picking one up.

Zach

Posted by: walterolin Jul 12 2018, 07:57 AM

718 Cayman.

Least expensive modern Porsche.
2.0 four cylinder boxer engine (it is turboed).
The purists turned their collective noses up at it when it came out - wasn't a real Porsche, didn't sound like a six (did they know it wasn't a six?).
Mid engine, wheels at the corners, discs all around, no place to put your pocket book.
Noisy inside because the engine in a way is inside the cabin and right behind you.
Two trunks.
MT available.
Difficult for an old man to get in/out.
Gets a lot of attention, and is faster than most of the preceding generation Boxster/Caymans. 300 hp, 20 lbs of boost. 0-60 in the 4.7 - 4.9 range.

On the other hand, it is not a targa, doesn't rust, and weighs around 3000 lbs.
Incredibly complex, takes over an hour just to get the engine cover off. For example, the fuel pump is thee phase AC.

The MR2 and Spyder were great cars, my son had one. Unfortunately, like the S2000, they don't make them any more

Posted by: Olympic 914 Jul 12 2018, 08:06 AM

All of this..... That's why I bought one. Got the Cayman S 2.5 L Turbo 4, 350 HP

And its Blue.




Most of the magazines said it doesn't sound like a Porsche, I think it sounds great but I have never owned a Porsche six. Odd but a 924/944 928, Panamera, Macan, Cayanne etc. don't sound like a Porsche six either.

Posted by: theer Jul 12 2018, 08:36 AM

Cayman is a great choice, but way too civilized.

The 924/944/968 was similarly stigmatized regarding the motor (underpowered - except for the Turbo). Not mid-engine, but has phenomenal handling & balance. They are pretty cheap to buy & own, for the time being, have a huge fan base out there, and have been modified for massive power (read: LS1). Galvanized body makes rust so much less of an issue.

Lastly, these too suffer from battery box failure. Only here, the failure results in water draining onto the passenger's feet, rather than the rear wheel falling off - how's that for progress?!!.

Posted by: krazykonrad Jul 12 2018, 10:41 AM

That's the one! A true modern 914 (minus the trunk space).

Posted by: Rand Jul 12 2018, 10:48 AM

While I love the Cayman it's not a targa. I'd say Lotus brings it best.

Bring me Ariel Atom any day.

Posted by: Philip W. Jul 12 2018, 10:50 AM

nice and several have come to our cars and coffee, but if you are more than 6 foot tall, have you tried to get in?? I am almost 6'2'', and its so hard to get out and I am flexible and nimble not big(31''waist), - I could not own one- I could maybe do a newer Alpha coupe, but I have plenty of leg and head room in my boxster or 914 and can drive 5 hours with out cramping up- with that said I totally agree otherwise, its a targa, small , light , very much like a modern version of the 914

Posted by: burton73 Jul 12 2018, 11:20 AM

No brainer on this. Boxster. Ask anyone that has owned both.
Modern with all the good stuff.

Heavier but more HP.

Bob B

Posted by: worn Jul 12 2018, 12:32 PM

Somehow I was thinking the Boxter is maybe too plush. But, haven't driven one, so I should reconsider. Like the 914 they are affordable, which is good. One thing that is hard to remember, even for me is how simple cars could be back then. And of course I miss some of that such as a wing window and the ability to let air flow the car without turning on a fan and a solenoid. Or the ability to actually find a button by feel rather than looking down by the shifter for a touch screen.

I like the lightness of a Lotus, but haven't tried one of them either.

Posted by: worn Jul 12 2018, 12:40 PM

I hate to say it, but on the return from WCR we ran into 100 degree weather in South Dakota and were cooked without A.C. I never was good at tolerating heat, have less cardio reserve than I used to have, and the oil pressure had dropped to 3 Bar. At that point I started thinking about what was fun, light, low to the ground and still had AC and modern reliability (remember nursing a car to start in cold weather?). Maybe a Lotus plus a trailer for luggage.

Posted by: Coondog Jul 12 2018, 12:54 PM

Here’s the only modern 914 I care to drive.

Posted by: era vulgaris Jul 12 2018, 12:57 PM

I would agree, but would limit it to the 97-99 2.5L base model. It's the simplest Boxster, and if you want a comparable driving experience to a 914 in terms of power, I think the larger displacements will be too fast.
2.5 Boxster: 201 hp, 2822 lbs, 0-100kph 6.9s
2.0 914: 99 hp, 2090 lbs, 0-100kph 10.5s

My 98 2.5L feels straight line power-wise, very similar to my old 75 914 with the 2270. In terms of handling though, you're going to need to be going at least 20mph faster in the Boxster to get the same sensation because the suspension is so much more sophisticated. Curves and turns I'd take in my 914 at 50mph that were exhilarating are no-nonsense at the same speed in the Boxster.

The seating position is almost exactly the same, which I really like because for me the 914 is the most comfortable car I've ever sat in, hands down. Also the early 97-99 Boxsters don't have all the annoying touch screens and electronic gizmos, so it still feels pretty analog. I think the base model shift knob is actually the same one that Porsche had been using for the entire 924/944/968 range.

For a modern car it's been fairly straightforward to work on so far. I've repaired the SAI system, replaced struts, changed oil, replaced spark plug tube seals. Not as straightforward as a 914, but for a modern car, not bad.

I only wish the 5 speed on the Boxster was a dog leg. But otherwise I think it's fair to say it's a next-gen or next evolutionary step of the 914.

But if you want something that's a bit more vintage and probably more exactly the feel of a 914 but with a few more modern accessories like AC and fuel injection, the first gen AW11 MR2 or the 80's Fiat X1/9 might get you there. The X1/9 even has a targa top that can stow in the car!

Posted by: GregAmy Jul 12 2018, 02:00 PM

https://www.factoryfive.com/818/818s/

Posted by: flmont Jul 12 2018, 03:26 PM

Coondog,..what were your Numbers on that Treadmill,..from PMS..

Posted by: Rand Jul 12 2018, 03:28 PM

An argument could be made for the 918. Yep, mid engine targa, still in the family...

Posted by: 914forme Jul 12 2018, 09:14 PM

Nice toss in on the 818, great little cars.

Posted by: Valy Jul 12 2018, 11:12 PM

This.

Posted by: HalfMoon Jul 13 2018, 08:08 AM

Very much agree!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jul 13 2018, 05:32 PM

Modern?? That's at least a couple of decades past being "modern"! Heck, I think they are now older than the 914 was in the year the 240sx first came out! That was 30 years ago, and the newest 914 was only 13 years old at that point...

--DD

Posted by: Philip W. Jul 13 2018, 06:05 PM

Man you have been busy, didnt you just get that thing like last month?
hey! isnt that a Raby powered Boxster?? i bet you are enjoying that car- if i had not just bought my '97 i would have bought that car for sure! mine is a 2.5 as well of course and i really need new shocks too, what did you put in? also just drove 350 miles feom SC to Orlando Fla with out a stop and my back doesnt hurt and i didnt cramp up. and just enough pop in traffic at 60,70 or even 80 shoot thru gaps in traffic ans not get stuck behind idiots! it is fun but my 914 is quicker set up as it is, i bet i would have a faster d.e. time with it. maybe sometime i can test that. either way ist very much alime and that is why i bought it. as much as i would love a Alpha Spyder cheapest one i found was still $50k! so best bargin eight now is an early Boxster.

Posted by: SKL1 Jul 13 2018, 07:20 PM

Had an Elise for a few years- wish I still had it. Bullet proof engine, no power steering, etc. Really light weight considering everything else on the road...and a blast to drive.

Always said at the time it was a modern era 914, just from the wrong country.

Posted by: mgp4591 Jul 14 2018, 12:42 AM

And it's not even mid-engined....

Posted by: billh1963 Jul 14 2018, 06:04 AM

Kind of missing the affordability element of the 914, though....

Posted by: Amphicar770 Jul 14 2018, 12:32 PM

While some purists gasp, just put AC in your 914

If it were not for my ice cold AC on 100 degree plus days, I probably would have replaced my 914 long ago. Rotary compressor takes minimal hit to horsepower.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jul 14 2018, 01:13 PM

4 or 6? I am starting to see the wisdom of A/C in a 914—might make the difference between taking the 914 on long trips in good weather and taking something else.

As to the OP, it's a good question:

Lotus Elise: Incredible performance and linkable to the 914 in many ways, but it doesn't have the dual "touring" nature of the 914; feels more bare bones to me, in an odd way?

Alfa 4C: Size is so wonderfully right, great styling, similar top concept, but isn't a Porsche in character/nature (much like the Elise isn't) and is auto only (a deal-killer for me).

Toyota MR-2 Spyder: VERY similar to the 914 in many ways, but no trunk space and super cheap materials. Great to drive, but...somehow not quite a modern 914. Vastly underrated, however.

1997-1999 Boxster 2.5: Have to agree that these Boxsters are wonderfully close to a modern 914. Unlike the above, it's a Porsche through and through, and by that I don't mean the status-related thing, but the engineering sensibility and timelessness thing. Had a 1999 for a few years and tested all of the other variants for Excellence/Panorama/000, and only one other Boxster has ever felt like it might replace my 914 if it had to go (see below). Also had a long-term 2001 986 2.7, and if there is one I pine for another of, it's the 2.5. I'd drive the 2.5 and wonder why I kept my 914, as it did everything better and was comfy to boot. Then I'd drive the 914 on the right day and realize the 986 couldn't do what the 914 did, between its more elemental feel, smells, and sounds (and that was with the Type IV engine!). But then I'd park the 914 and be really happy to be back in the 986 after a few hours with vinyl seats and no A/C. The later Boxsters—all of them, 718 included—offer various and myriad improvements, but those first ones are very special. My brother owns my old one, with 215,000 miles on its original engine and Euro M030 suspension plus GT3 Cup control arms and some other tricks. It still sounds amazing, and pulls to redline beautifully. Some plastics are getting tired, and the paint is too, though still presentable. And then I had a funny realization: That 1999 Boxster is now older than my 1973 914 was when I got it in 1991. By that measure, the 986 has definitely worn better than my 914 had by that point. And: no rust.

2010/2011 Boxster Spyder: This is the one I'd get if I was going to replace my 914. The handling is otherworldly, as is the overall experience. The top is novel, and didn't bother me in any way. In fact, I think it added to the car in terms of engineering and experience. YMMV, but you can read more here:

https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/182/articles/spyder-sense#.W0pJ8yPMwUE

http://www.excellence-mag.com/of-note/revisiting-the-boxster-spyder-still-impressive#.W0pKFyPMwUE

https://www.excellence-mag.com/issues/196/articles/open-and-shut-case-track-test#.W0pKPiPMwUE

Posted by: boxsterfan Jul 14 2018, 09:25 PM

Acura NSX




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: 914forme Jul 15 2018, 05:47 AM

NSX - Forgot all about them, as did most people, even older now than the 914 was when they where sold.

914 and NSX both great handling cars
914 and NSX not the fastest car on the block, and even slower buy todays standards if keep in stock form
914 and NSX somewhat of a cult car, both have been appreciating over the last few years
914 and NSX some funky outside the box engineering going on
NSX - A/C from factory
NSX - can do a long haul with out saddle sores
914 more storage space

Modren day, not maybe we needed to define Modren day

So by my definition lets say something that has been on the new car showroom that sold in the last 10 years. And has an out the door price tag of less than $60,000 USD. Can be purchased used to get the price down even further.

So if that is the case I vote for this.



My quick search found 15 examples less that $65,000 dollars figure 5K off is not a hard thing to do in negotiations.

You can drive these all day long. All the comforts of you arm chair, and well it is German engineering at its finest. V8 AWD will take out most of the driver feed back and well make it so everyone can drive a super car. Well almost everyone as people still do stupid in these.





But then that brings me back to the Ariel Atom

Used 2014 from Ariel 24999 in pounds, hit the conversion just right



And for me it is the proper color

Of course this is the rabbit hole we all go down when you set a price say $60K and then think of all the great cars you could own.

Now at least the McLaren have not dipped into that price territory. I would be selling everything to put one of them in the garage.

Atom is F'ing tempting

Posted by: Movin6 Jul 15 2018, 09:37 AM

That was my son's vote, for the first car he bought 'with his own money', after having had a 914-6 to drive for summer vacations of college years. I had a chance to drive it when he left it with me for a week, very modern updated, could also go too fast to quick... ;-)

Posted by: My 914 Jul 15 2018, 12:06 PM

I think that although the Boxster is the most modern 914 like car from an engineering standpoint, it is far from a 914 in its appearance. The Boxster's design evolved from the 911 and unfortunately, the 914 design was abandoned. Personally, I think the 914 was ahead of its time in many respects including its shape and I feel this one of the reasons that the cars are now gaining so much popularity. It took 45 years for the design to catch up with the times!

Posted by: thelogo Jul 15 2018, 03:33 PM

I dont know about modern 914 thats not really posssible

But im sure any porsche offering , 993 911 for me
Will stimulate all the right feelings of a 914

Posted by: 914 7T3 Jul 15 2018, 03:47 PM

Posted by: worn Jul 15 2018, 07:13 PM

Wow! I love all the things that have come out of this question. Now it is that I realize that the question was never fair at all. Of course I want the car to handle as directly as it always has, but also to become as used to the accoutrements as perhaps I myself have become used to.

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Jul 15 2018, 10:26 PM

NSX was a ground-breaking car...essentially a Ferrari 348 with Acura Legend Coupe reliability and usability. The first truly usable "exotic" mid-engined sports car, as even the 914-6 couldn't really be called exotic. Maybe the 916, but hard to call those production cars.

The R8 was a new NSX, but better in every way...and now an A6 around town and flat wooooooonderful on back roads.

Direct handling like a 914 in a modern package? I can see and agree with votes for the Elise.

But truly a modern 914? Hello Boxster:

Two seats
Two trunks
Innovative top concept
Three gauges ahead of driver
Mid-mounted flat six or flat four
5-speed transaxle (or, later, 6 or 7) hung out back, with a VW stamping on its case
Front suspension shared with 911
Unique rear suspension (adapted from 911 front in case of Boxster)
Four-wheel disc brakes

What else am I forgetting?

Posted by: 914forme Jul 16 2018, 09:48 AM

As much as it pains me to say so

The rebel in me is reeling with frustration, the logical side sees Pete eloquent delivery of facts to be hard to denounce.

So the REBEL in me says go find a Cayman. The most logicaly closet car to the 916.

Posted by: My 914 Jul 17 2018, 07:03 PM

I don't know..... Maybe on paper they're similar in design but having owned a Cayman for 4 years, I never thought it was anything like a 914. Although the Cayman may be a better daily driver, the 914 is much more fun.

Posted by: 76-914 Jul 18 2018, 02:27 PM

Modernize your 914 and bring it into the 21st Century. Add AC, heated seats and replace the antiquated drivetrain with some contemporary boxer style engine.

Posted by: Philip W. Jul 18 2018, 08:43 PM

Tesla roadster - essentially a Lotus body, super high torque engine, light and quick, AND targa.



Attached image(s)