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Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 14 2005, 11:54 AM

I just got my fuel pump TODAY and I will be starting the SIX up ASAP. I would like to here some tip/thoughts on;
- How long should I run it
- What RPM

I installed new rings, had some top end work done, rebuilt the webers..etc

I am hoping it will fire right up but who knows? The carbs are more then likely not dialed in but should be close, timing will be close (I set it at TDC).

Once it is started should I immediately start tuning it? Timing and then the carbs?

Should I stop it to check the plug color to make sure I am not running too lean/rich?

Cheers

Posted by: brant Jun 14 2005, 12:34 PM

Just my $.02 so don't take this as gospel.

This is what I did:
-have an oil temp guage.
-start it and run for 20 minutes or until aroune 200F (which ever comes first)
-we then changed the oil
-then let it fully cool overnight.
-start a 2nd time for 1hour
-change the oil, do the valves, and let if fully cool/cure again.
-Then drive it 500 miles and oil/valves one last time

You will have to set the rough timing right away, but when its tight and cold you can't do the carbs much anyways.

we were told to follow this for a new motor.
you may not have to go to such extremes on a top end job, although I was surprised at how much debris was in the oil filter at the very first change.

Even if you didn't do the valves and the oil as often, I would do the valves once at a minimum and go ahead and change the filter for safety sake at least once.

I was told that the 20minute/1hour steps with full cool down inbetween allowed for thermal heat cycle of the motor and was an important step.

brant

Posted by: Series9 Jun 14 2005, 01:01 PM

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice
2: Insert chopstick and break it off
3: Replace spark plug
4: Start engine and drive


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Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 14 2005, 01:41 PM

QUOTE (914RS @ Jun 14 2005, 11:01 AM)

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice 2: Insert chopstick and break it off 3: Replace spark plug 4: Start engine and drive

I think also remember to heat cycle it every time you start it for the first few times you run it if nothing else.

Posted by: trekkor Jun 14 2005, 02:28 PM

That chopstick thing was classic.

Good thing I wasn't eating or drinking.

This is exciting to hear that you are ready to start the SIX. Good going.

KT

Posted by: TimT Jun 14 2005, 03:08 PM

Are they new cams?

If so you need to run it at 2000 rpm for about 20 mins, to break in the cams/rockers.

If they are the old cams being reused, just start it let it warm up and tune away

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 14 2005, 03:51 PM

Thanks... I am using the old cams that still ooked okay.

The hard part is stopping myself from running out there and firing that bad boy up...

I need to run through my check list and make sure the wiring is okay..

Maybe tomorrow night.

I should have my back-yard test run station wired tonight

Posted by: redshift Jun 14 2005, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (914RS @ Jun 14 2005, 03:01 PM)

1: Remove spark plug from the cylinder of your choice 2: Insert chopstick and break it off 3: Replace spark plug 4: Start engine and drive

Posted by: scott thacher Jun 14 2005, 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 14 2005, 01:51 PM)

I should have my back-yard test run station wired tonight

that thing is scary

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 15 2005, 05:38 PM

Are the cloth braided vacuum hoses the same hoses used for fuel?

I have some new cloth braided hoses and would like to use it for the fuel lines from the fire wall connections to the carbs, if possible

Cheers

Posted by: Series9 Jun 15 2005, 05:44 PM

Will you get on with it!

Go outside and start the engine!

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 17 2005, 07:04 AM

Okay the crane stuff doesn't seem to be working too well for me

I had to give up last night after I had enough crap come up. .

I am running a Crane ignition system (Hi-6, PS-91, and a XR 700). I printed out the instructions today and will double check, for the 5th time) the connections.

The engine does crank over but as soon as I turn the ACC on...magic smoke appeared from the Hi-6. I saw the smoke very quickly and turned the ACC off. I have no idea if things are toast right now. I'll find out tonight...It's going to be a long day at work waiting.

ALSO, the cam oil feed lines are leaking at the connection to the cam tower. Are two washers used or one? I have the banjo fitting sandwiched with two washers

cheers

Posted by: redshift Jun 17 2005, 07:12 AM

uhoh

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 17 2005, 04:54 PM

The HI-6 is toast.
I took it apart and part of the board is fired. Looks to be related to the (-) from the coil.

I am 100% sure the system was connected correctly Black is (-) and orange (+). I am using a crane PS-91 coil, well I was.

I guess that's what I get for buying USED electronics. It could have been the coil or the Hi-6. I bought all pieces from the same guy?

$200 down the drain and now I need to buy a new one....These conversions fun .

Can I just plug in a OEM CD unit, just to get this engine fired up? I would like to keep the XR-700.

Cheers

Posted by: banksyinoz Jun 17 2005, 05:03 PM

mate that is the risk ,secondhand electrics the cost is there but new is always better think peace of mind

Posted by: TimT Jun 17 2005, 05:18 PM

The xr700 can be used to fire the stock CD box, getting a good tach signal is a toughy, I had the crane nee Allison xr700 box in my 911 in 1985 or so so its been a longgggg time since I wired it up.. that car is long gone


I also had Hi6 PS91 and xr700 firing my 911 about 4 years ago.. I rmember it was a pretty straight install.. but I needed the crane tach adapter


again I dont recall the wiring sequence..

sorry to many lost neurons.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 17 2005, 05:56 PM

The wiring wasn't too bad. That is why I am unsure why the ground connectoin/wire would have heated up some much.

I will call Crane on Monday to see if there is a way I can test the PS-91 coil?

I almost feel like

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 17 2005, 06:53 PM

Damn , I was hoping for the OH YA She fired,
Instead We got the Damn it Fried.
Som Bitch, You'll get it!!!
Hope too hear some Revs Soon

Posted by: xsboost90 Jun 17 2005, 07:14 PM

hey man dont sweat it! I had the same problem, crank crank, leak, no fire etc...now im smiling every time i start it!!!

xr700- make sure you got the optic set up all the way, set to TDC, see if the light on the box is lit. set towards the early side of the slot....like, if it turns ccw, set it as far clockwise as possible till light goes off, then back ccw till it lights again. Just a tip that i didnt quite get from the instructions.


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Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 17 2005, 07:31 PM

Thanks..

I tested the XR 700 signal and it is there (Connected a test light to the yellow wire and it flashes my test light).

The power light on the Hi-6 lights but it doesn't blink. It should blink when the signal from the XR 700 is received....Mine doesn't blink and I get no spark. Seems like the HI-6 isn't making use of the signal

I don't think the XR 700 has a light on it??? I'll need to take a look.



Thanks again :beer1

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 17 2005, 08:37 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 17 2005, 09:31 PM)

The power light on the Hi-6 lights but it doesn't blink

mine doesn't blink with the cap off - i think sunlight overwhelms the sensor. works fine when all buttoned up. i use a DVM to do static timing. PITA but you only hafta do it once. i have all the Crane/HI-6 documentation if you want to compare notes...

yes on the 2 sealing washers on the cam lines...
are you using the restrictors or the originals?

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 18 2005, 06:18 AM

Thanks..

the oil lines are OEM. I used some elbow grease on the cam feed lines and it seemed to stop the leak/drip.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 18 2005, 06:52 PM

Since I have some down time now

I was looking at my exhaust

Should the end of the headers be inline (or close) to the end of the tranny?

It seems the 914-6 headers are shorter then the the 2.0L heat exchangers??

I have a triad and the flanges are not deep enough to clear the tranny? I need a 6-8" piece to go between the headers and the Triad Wonder if I can get this piece at a FLAPS?

Cheers

Posted by: trekkor Jun 18 2005, 07:18 PM

You just want to run the motor on the test bench, right?

You don't need the CDI at this point to do that.

12v to the + coil.
condensor wire to the -.

Start it, please...

KT

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 19 2005, 07:34 AM

???KT?????

I don't need a CDI?? Details Why is a CDI used on a SIX and not the four?

I am just running the engine out of the car to get it tuned and somewhat set up.

I have an XR 700 installed so are you saying I can hook up the engine like a 4 would be?

I am calling crane, on Monday, to see if they work on teh HI-6 units and if it would be cheeper to have it rebuilt by them to to buy a new one.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 19 2005, 08:57 AM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 19 2005, 09:34 AM)

I don't need a CDI?? Details Why is a CDI used on a SIX and not the four?

911's didn't get CDI until 1969. you don't need it just to start an engine on a test stand. yes, you can use standard Kettering Battery-condenser ignition just like every 911 from 1965-1968.

Kettering ignition runs out of energy at high engine speeds, and as engine performance increased, plug heat ranges got colder, and 911's started running richer for performance, and plugs started fouling. CDI is A Good Thing - but it is not a necessary thing to simply start and dial in a stand-alone engine.

Posted by: trekkor Jun 19 2005, 09:12 AM

I didn't add the MSD 6AL ignitition until after the motor had been in the car for some time.

It is highly recommended, as it will smooth out the idle and improve cold starting. ( day and night )
Acceleration is greatly improved, due to the ability to run a big spark plug gap and the rev limiter is the bonus...

Do you still have my bench test wire harness picture?
$5 set-up.

KT


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Posted by: scott thacher Jun 19 2005, 11:43 AM

you all keep basturdizing my wonderful perfect home electric supplies.... sorry it is just the anal master electrician in me.

and kerry if you want i can come up and play for a day, when is the BQ

Posted by: trekkor Jun 19 2005, 02:09 PM

Scott, this set up that I showed has never failed me.
Looks are completley unimportant.

What would you do for $5 that worked equally as well, and didn't take all day to win some science fair blue ribbon?

Sorry, for all that...
Kerry wants to run his motor. I'm showing a way that allows him to do that in minutes, and when he's done he can throw away the kit and feel good about it.

I kept mine though...future testing

KT

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 19 2005, 05:43 PM

Thanks...

It's been a bad weekend and didn't get any better.

I need to step back and redo things. I have no Idea why the freak'n thing is not working.

My XR 700 module is toast..no signal at all. I could have sworn it worked yesterday. It seems like the ground wires are getting very HOT.

Is the spade connector on the starter is grounded????? I tried two different starters and they both seem the same. I connect a DVM between the spade connector and ground and it is defiantly grounded. The yellow wire applies 12+ to the spade connector.

Looks like this weekend cost me about $250 in parts.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 07:22 AM

How doe sthis look?



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Posted by: trekkor Jun 20 2005, 09:00 AM

I'm not sure, but I think the switched ( key on ) power needs to go into the CDI first, then it terminates at the + coil.
Your diagram shows the coil with power before the CDI gets it.

KT

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 09:08 AM

The diagram above is without the CDI...Just the points conversion XR 700 and a OEM coil.

I'll post the HI-6 diagram in a few

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 09:10 AM

CDI or HI-6


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Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 20 2005, 09:11 AM

The fuel pump shouldn't run off of the ignition circut, it should have its own.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 20 2005, 09:15 AM

QUOTE (sixnotfour @ Jun 20 2005, 11:11 AM)

The fuel pump shouldn't run off of the ignition circut, it should have its own.

this isn't an in-car schematic, it's a test-stand schematic...

Kerry - those look okayfine to me...

IMO - go get a big ignition-rated momentary switch for your start button; you'd be unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 09:42 AM

Yes this is just what I am using to test the engine out of the car.

"unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough... "

Please explain this??? As soon as the engine fires I will switch the starter off, just like I would with the key'd ignition? Am I missing something here?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 20 2005, 09:54 AM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 20 2005, 11:42 AM)

"unhappy if for whatever reason you couldn't switch out the starter fast enough... " Please explain this???

switches have voltage ratings for a reason, and a DC switch is LOTS bigger than an AC switch of the same voltage for an important reason: AC requires a LOT more voltage to sustain an arc (since it goes to zero 60 times a second).

trying to switch 20A DC of starter solenoid current through a 20A 110V household wall switch could have unintended consequences - arc in the switch, welded contacts... it's not so much that it's highly likely (although i'm sure this is at least part of what Scott was objecting to...) but that the consequences would be unpleasant.

a proper 12VDC starter switch can't be more than $10 at the FLAPS (for a really nice one) and it just strikes me as the appropriate thing to do.

also - "stuff happens" when you go to light up a new engine. big oil leak? left a rag on top of the carbs... all manner of unexpected stuff. that's why i like a spring-return momentary switch that cannot remain engaged if i need to deal with something critical. household switches aren't like that. if a proper switch were expensive, or hard to come by, it might tip the scale, but they're neither...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 10:01 AM

Thanks.

So far things have been very unpleasent..to say the least so I'll pick up a switch this week.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 20 2005, 11:46 AM

one other thing to add...

the heavy red and black wires on the HI-6 (or a MSD, for that matter) need to go directly to the battery and an excellent ground. DO NOT try to power the whole unit from Terminal 15 !

those units use Terminal 15 as a turn-on signal only - the heavy power and ground leads need a direct, low-impedance connection directly to the battery (or its equivalent).

my 911's HI-6 uses a 10-Ga wire to the +12 terminal on the starter post.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 20 2005, 04:28 PM

Well I am shipping the whole Crane setup off to CraneCams tomorrow. They will check out all of the parts and let me know what is bad. Should have the answer by Next Monday.

Cheers

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 29 2005, 08:43 AM

Okay I heard back from CraneCams and my stuff is all JUNK. I sent my wiring diagrams and they said the diagrams are fine.

The guy at CraneCams then told me I don't need the Hi-6 or any CDI for my engine. He said the Crane XR3000 and a PS-91 coil will work great with no CD unit, on any NA engine that runs under 7000rpm.

Thoughts? I am going to order some new parts this week (Today if I can) so I can start this dam engine up.

Cheers

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jun 29 2005, 08:50 AM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jun 29 2005, 10:43 AM)

...The guy at CraneCams then told me I don't need the Hi-6 or any CDI for my engine. ...

*need* ?

i suppose not. no 911 had CDI until 1969.

your engine will definitely run on a Kettering (condenser/coil) ignition.
i think you will find it runs -better- with CDI, whether or not it's a multi-spark system or not (although i like them...)

if you don't use a rev-limited CDI, do please get a rev-limited distributor rotor; a stuck throttle can ruin your day.

IMO - go with the simplest, cheapest thing you can do NOW to get the system running. upgrade later if you want. like over the winter...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jun 29 2005, 08:59 AM

Ya he said to set the spark plug gap to .042 and this combined with the HOT spark will reduce/stop any fouling of the plugs.

Unless I hear anything major from the group, I will go this route.

If you come down for the cookout you can tak eit for a spin and tell me how it is running. I have never driven a SIX so I won't have much to compare it to.

Cheers

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 9 2005, 03:57 PM

It runs Me is a happy 914 owner now.


I can get it to idle but the POPPING is crazy. It pops is a sequence from cylinder to cylinder. A very sharp POP out the carbs. As soon as I hit move the throttle it POPs and shoots a flame (Wel it did once) out the carb.

My guess is it is lean

I am going to be doing some searching for soem tuning tips. I tried to tun the mixture screws out alittle to see it that helped but it didn't seem to.

Cheers soon to be

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 9 2005, 04:11 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jul 9 2005, 05:57 PM)

My guess is it is lean

hey, congratulations !!

your timing might be a tad advanced too...

good job !

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 9 2005, 04:16 PM

I have a small video of it running and you can hear the pops.

Can any one host this for me?

Kerrys914@yahoo.com

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 9 2005, 04:18 PM

Timing is set close to 30deg @ 3000RPM (Best I can with it running like it is.).

It's a 2.2T so I think it 30deg is correct

Posted by: TimT Jul 9 2005, 04:28 PM

T engines are timed at 35deg @ 6000rpm

E & S are set at 30deg@ 6000

full advance can be expected at 3000rpm but check it at 6000 per the books

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 9 2005, 06:53 PM

Well it WAS the timing. I forgot I marked TDC to help with the cam timing . SO I had two marks and choose the wrong one, I timed the car at 3000rpm to TDC (or very close to it).

I scrapped off the TDC mark and set things to about 30 deg at 3000. I don't feel ready yet go up to 6000prm to set the timing. I'll check BA's book for the actual specs later.

I am done for the night I guess the Triad is a little loud for 9:00pm at night

Tomorrow I will sync the carbs and change the oil.

Cheers

Posted by: TimT Jul 9 2005, 06:59 PM

QUOTE

I'll check BA's book for the actual specs later.

Why?

the lil Porsche spec book says 35@6000

as do all the other references...

Set you timing correctly first... then look for other problems

Posted by: trekkor Jul 9 2005, 11:11 PM

Don't be scared

Rev it up!!!

Congrats.

KT

Posted by: 9146986 Jul 10 2005, 09:14 AM

IIRC there is some more advance after 3000 rpm, so you would have too much advance if you set the timing at that engine speed.

Here's the same carb tuning post I made for Trekkor last September:

Assumptions: the carbs have the optimum jet and venturi package (good luck on this one), the float level in the carbs is correct, the cams are correctly timed, the valves are properly adjusted, the ignition timing is dead on, you have the proper spark plugs for your engine, the linkage is good, the fuel is good, the engine is good.

Remember that the mixture and air bypass adjustment screws are precision needle valves, not head gaskets. Use your fingers to tighten them, not your fist.
Start and warm up the engine.
Make sure the two drop links for the throttle linkage are exactly the same length, and disconnected. You can use a 8mm thin igntion wrench to snap them off.
Turn the mixture screws all the way in and then 5 half turns out.
Turn the air bypass screws all the way in.
Turn the idle speed screws out til it just touches, and then in 5 half turns.
Put on your hearing protection and start the car.
Use your STE and find the barrel that pulls the most. We'll call this one baseline.
Balance the barrel in the other carb that pulls the most with the idle speed screw. (if you have a Uni-syn, give it to someone you don't like and purchase a STE airflow meter)
Go back to the other carb, with the baseline barrel. You will have one all the way in, then use the air bypass screws and balance the other two barrels.
Go to the other carb and do the same thing.
Snug the jamb nuts on the air bypass screws.
All six barrels should pull the same amount of air at this point, if not repeat air adjustment proceedure.
Snap the throttle linkage drop links back on the carbs. If the idle changes then you need to barely adjust the linkage mounts so snapping the drop links on, doesn't change the side to side idle balance.
Use the hand throttle or a vice grip and rag to lock the linkage between 1400 and 1800 rpm.
Start back at the baseline barrel and adjust the mixture screw in or out, to get the smoothest running and highest idle, then turn it in 1/4 turn.
Do the same with the five other mixture screws.
If you have to turn the mixture screws more than two full turns either way, you've got the wrong jets.
Recheck side to side and individual air balance, adjust as needed.
Road test the car.
If you get snapping and poping out the intake, it's generally a lean condition.
If you get heavy exhaust fumes, or pboofing out the exhaust it's probably too rich.
If you get a flat spot or popping out the intake at between 2800 and 3200 rpm, you probably need larger idle jets.

That's a rough, five minute draft of my carb tuning proceedure, hope it helps!

If it goes good it should take about 45 minutes, if not about three years.



Don't even think you can use a piece of hose held over the venturi and up to your ear, to accurately set the air balance. Get a STE!! Imagine what would happen if that barrel backfired?? It'd be like ten years of rock n' roll hearing damage in a instant!

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 15 2005, 12:04 PM

Okay I have it timed..SO I think I had the RPMS at 6000 and set the degs to close to 35deg. It seems to hit a wall around 5000 rpm's?

I noticed today the engine decal on the fan shroud states the timing at idle should be 2-4deg's ATDC...WTF? is that true? At idle I am not there I am close to 12-15 deg's?



ALSO I have some popping through the carbs AND heavy exhaust fumes

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 15 2005, 12:28 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jul 15 2005, 02:04 PM)

...It seems to hit a wall around 5000 rpm's? I noticed today the engine decal on the fan shroud states the timing at idle should be 2-4deg's ATDC...WTF? is that true? At idle I am not there I am close to 12-15 deg's? ALSO I have some popping through the carbs AND heavy exhaust fumes...

the decal is correct *if and only if* you have the original induction and distributor, and are trying to meet emissions standards for the engine year in question. any of those not true? then you're on your own...

12-15* BTDC at idle seems like a lot, but i donno - i don't think i've ever timed mine at idle. i static-time for 5* BTDC and then just check total advance.

remind me what your vacuum advance/retard situation is?

you should have no trouble going over 5000; the question is: is it flooding there, or starving there? or maybe there is still a timing issue... how do the plugs look after one of those high-rpm runs? this kind of thing is *really* hard without an air fuel gauge of some description...

remind me your jetting combination? are you getting smoke and fumes at idle, or higher rpm ?
you're sure the carbs are synchronised, yes? checked for both sets of throttle butterflies fully open at WOT ?

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 15 2005, 12:41 PM

My bad.. The wall I hit is the timing mark (not the engine speed) and it doesn't seem to want to move much after 5000rpm's.

I have no vacuum advance on my dizzy and I think it is a "E" bosch dizzy based on the numbers. I am running PMO spec in my carb for a 2.2T engine. My cam is a "T" cam.

When I time the engine by ear (seems to sound the best). I get my idle timing close to TDC maybe 5 deg BTDC.

Plugs look black but I had my plug gaps too small so I need to rev her up again and see how things look.

Some good new....the alt is charging great Just need to finish my header extensions and tuning the engien and I can put it in the car.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 15 2005, 12:55 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jul 15 2005, 02:41 PM)

I have no vacuum advance on my dizzy and I think it is a "E" bosch dizzy based on the numbers. I am running PMO spec in my carb for a 2.2T engine. My cam is a "T" cam. When I time the engine by ear (seems to sound the best). I get my idle timing close to TDC maybe 5 deg BTDC. Plugs look black but I had my plug gaps too small so I need to rev her up again and see how things look.

OK -- tonight i'll scan the E dizzy advance curve for you - that should give you an idea of what to expect. i seem to recall that the advance is all in by about 3500.

running a distributor that doesn't match the cam is going to be a bit of a compromise but it shouldn't hold you back that much, either...

when you do time it to ~5* BTDC idle, what's your indicated total advance ?

if it's running really rich at idle you might want to try running the mixture adjust screws in a bit...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 15 2005, 01:02 PM

I'll check my total advance once I time it by ear again.

Thanks

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 15 2005, 06:39 PM

post One - this is the Bosch T curve. note that dizzy advance curves are calibrated in DISTRIBUTOR (engine/2) rpm...

i *THINK* (but am not sure) that the 2,2T used a vacuum retard, which is how they get that 5* ATDC setting...


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Posted by: ArtechnikA Jul 15 2005, 06:40 PM

and this is the 911E/S Bosch curve...


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Posted by: trekkor Jul 15 2005, 08:44 PM

I'd like to see some pics of your "test start station".
Glad to hear you are well on your way.

KT

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 16 2005, 07:12 AM

Here is what I ended up with. I ended up buying a starter switch and starter toggle switch. It isn't fancy or clean by any means but it does work.

After burning up the HI-6 and XR-700 I started with a clean slate...and she runs



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Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 16 2005, 07:15 AM

Here is one of my webers...I just love the sounds of this six


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Posted by: 9146986 Jul 16 2005, 08:04 AM

Nice looking wiring harness

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 16 2005, 08:10 AM

I'll snap a few more

Posted by: redshift Jul 16 2005, 10:19 AM

WOOHOO!


M

Posted by: wilchek Jul 16 2005, 10:40 AM

if you need any help, support, or another hand let me know, I am about an hour from you up route 100.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Jul 16 2005, 10:58 AM

Thanks.. I take RT 100 up to Pottstown every two weeks for work.

I'll keep you in mind. You should have seen my wife when I told her to rev the engine up to 6000rpm, she was NOT happy with me. Loud and alot of heat from the headers.

Thanks agian.

Posted by: Gint Jul 16 2005, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Jul 16 2005, 07:15 AM)

Here is one of my webers...I just love the sounds of this six

Grats!

Wait until you hear it right behind your head with those Webers suckin air under load.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Aug 30 2005, 07:35 PM

It's been a few days since my last update I am test fitting my engine and have an issue.

The latest issue I have now is it appears my engine is too far forward in the car. The engine is too close to the firewall and the tranny connection points are off as well

I am using a patrick motorsports "Quick SIX" bar. I do not have anything between the mount bar and the engine block. Should there be a spacer?

Is there any adjustments front-to-back anywhere?

I have sport mounts in the OEM body mount locations. Seems to be off about 2" or so.

Can anyone measure the offset in the bar between the engine mount flange and the center of the body mount? Wonder if the mount bar is FUBAR?

Cheers

Posted by: trekkor Aug 30 2005, 11:52 PM

I saw your post too late for a photo...

It's tight, but it does fit.

...no spacers and no adjustments.

I found it easier to get the engine up in place with the carbs off.

You'll get it and it will be worth it!

KT

Posted by: Kerrys914 Aug 31 2005, 05:19 AM

Carbs are off and the tranny is pre-attached.

I'll take a look again tonight and take a photo. I'll see how much I can pull back on the assembly. It just seemed too far off but who knows.

Cheers

Posted by: Kerrys914 Aug 31 2005, 05:48 PM

Nothing, nada, zip

The dam thing looks to be short I am now going to try to line up the tranny mounts and see if that makes a diff.

The sport mounts, does the metal collar extend down?


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Posted by: Kerrys914 Aug 31 2005, 05:50 PM

Engine mount


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Posted by: type47 Aug 31 2005, 06:29 PM

nice engine shot, i have a new screensaver

Posted by: Kerrys914 Aug 31 2005, 07:53 PM

Okay. The rear tranny mounts are bolted up (not tight but bolted). The engine is not tipped forward some. I would think all I need to do is jack the engine up and the front mount points should line-up... NOPE.

They are off about an 1.5". If I flip the body sport mounts upside down, I may gain some vertical space and that may help. All of the photo's I have seen have the sport mounts installed like the photo above.


This is killing my deadline of two weeks

Bulkhead mount

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 1 2005, 05:36 AM

I have a call into Patrick's about this bar. Lets see what they say.

I contacted RJ and may be going that route if this doens't sourt out tonight ....Any one need a quick 6 mount bar.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 1 2005, 05:41 AM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Sep 1 2005, 07:36 AM)

I have a call into Patrick's about this bar. Lets see what they say.

now that will be an interesting test of the "new Patrick's."

good luck there guy !

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 1 2005, 10:03 AM

I guess nothing is to new.

Patrick's and I talked a little and then put me on hold?...I hung up after 5 mins of being on hold

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 2 2005, 06:11 AM

Engine is back out and the bar will be coming off ASAP.

I have ordered RJ's mount and it will be here on Tue/Wed Thanks Rich for spending the time on the phone and getting the mount shipped out ASAP

Now I have a bar mount not being used. If someone can weld or has a Big F-hammer or is handy they could get it to work. I may just take a and bash the sh!% out of it just for fun and as therapy


CHeers

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 12 2005, 08:24 AM

engine is in and running NOTE: Make sure to connect the fuel lines to the fuel pump correctly. I checked everything else before I thought of that That's what happens when you are rushing to get the car done.

Thanks to RJ for the fast shipping and a GREAT engine mount. This engine mount is worth the money and you will not be sorry if you get one. It went in like butta He was also a voice of HOPE for my conversion deadline when things weren't looking too good

I now need to wrap and make some heat shields for the headers. There are some sections of the wiring harness and oil lines that are near the headers. Not sure how the heat will effect the oil lines??????

I have not used header wrap before. Does it really help enough to justify the cost?

I have 3 nights to get the car out of the garage. Don't think it will be drivable for the street but who knows.

Posted by: trekkor Sep 12 2005, 08:47 PM

QUOTE

engine is in and running

Let's celebrate!!!


KT

Posted by: Gint Sep 12 2005, 09:12 PM

Grats Kerry!

Posted by: goose2 Sep 12 2005, 10:22 PM

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Sep 12 2005, 10:39 PM

Kerry, heat will definitely determine the life span of any wires ,cables or oil lines near the headers. If you can swing it , do the Jet Hot thing to the headers--I use a guy in Ca. "Xtreme heat coat" 805-388-9983. T304 SS heat shields placed here and there are cheap to make, and effective- just keep the shiny side towards the heat source , and a 1" air gap on the parts you are shielding. Use header wrap as a last source. That stuff will trap moisture and disintegrate the carbon out of the c/r steel in the header tubes, and you'll be buying headers every year. We void any warranty on defective headers , returned to us that are damaged due to header wrap use.
Marty

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 12 2005, 11:43 PM

I've used header wrap on smallish (12 inch) lengths of header pipe to protect oil lines, etc, for about 7 years with no apparent ill effects......cheep ass Bursch headers, tho

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 19 2005, 05:49 PM

okay. I have been driving my six for the last two days (well test driving). It has a weber issue now.

The engine revs great but once the engine is loaded by driving I have no power past 3000rpm. It's either very lean or very rich once it switches off the idel jet. Kinda sounds and feels like when you have bad gas

I recleaned the air correction tubes and main jets but it still acts like this.

I have
Weber 40's
Main's, 125
Idle, 55
Air correction, 180 and F26
Vent, 32

Any thoughts

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 19 2005, 07:34 PM

http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs/CIS_to_Webers2.pdf
for a 2,2T:
30mm choke (venturii)
125 main
180 air
55 idle
F26 Emulsion

you're rather bigger on venturii so it's probably lean-ish
but of course the Number One cause of carburetion symptoms is maladjusted timing, so check that first... and try to do a plug cut when it's screwing up...

bigger main or smaller air correction...

if you're back to using the Crane optical ignition trigger it could also be rotor phasing.

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 19 2005, 07:40 PM

Are you sure the jets haven't been reamed out larger?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 19 2005, 07:49 PM

i may just have to head down there with my jet gauges...
the Subie has its own idle issues (too high) and could use a highway run to finish setting the OBD-II Readiness codes...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 20 2005, 05:18 AM

Thanks guys...

The jets are all new, with the exception of the Air's. I'll drop in the 30's and see if that does anything.

I am running the Crane XR3000. I'll recheck the timing as it could have been bumped during the 2-3 installs Rotor phase??? My 1st thought when I drove teh car was I was losing a cylinder ot two at the upper rpm range, so maybe there is something here to look at.

I am not sure what would change from rev'n the car to 5000rpm and driving the car to 5000rpm, other then the jets

Have you heard anything from the Palmer House in VT?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 20 2005, 05:59 AM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Sep 20 2005, 07:18 AM)

Rotor phase??? My 1st thought when I drove teh car was I was losing a cylinder ot two at the upper rpm range, so maybe there is something here to look at. I am not sure what would change from rev'n the car to 5000rpm and driving the car to 5000rpm, other then the jets Have you heard anything from the Palmer House in VT?

i had the opposite problem after my Crane install -- it wouldn't run worth a damn -under- 3000 rpm. i had phased the rotor *too* far, in my zeal to have it pointed directly at the tower at higher rpm.

it takes a *lot* better spark to run the engine under load than no-load. i don't think a 2mm difference in venturii size would have this dramatic an effect.

remind me what you decided to do with your distributor vacuum line...

i haven't heard about the package, but i have been in contact with them about some stuff we left behind in the room. they're returning it, so they have all our contact information. if you had a return address on the package, i expect it'll just find its way back to you eventually. and if not, i'm not worried about it. the original plan was to have it at the ECR, and that ship has sailed...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 20 2005, 06:03 AM

QUOTE (ArtechnikA @ Sep 20 2005, 07:59 AM)

remind me what you decided to do with your distributor vacuum line...

Well there isn't one connected and there is no vacuum line connection on the dizzy. IIRC I am running a "E" dizzy

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 20 2005, 01:11 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Sep 20 2005, 03:18 AM)

The jets are all new, with the exception of the Air's. I'll drop in the 30's and see if that does anything.

Theoretically, smaller venturis should richen the mixture, but give the idle circuit a stronger signal.

Remembering what Ed Mayo once told me; "80% of carburator problems are ignition", I'd check the ignition set up with close scrutiny.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 20 2005, 01:45 PM

Does the 914 have a ballast resistor in the ignition circuit? CraneCams indicates the XR3000 will operate bad at high RPMs if there is one

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 05:54 AM

Found the problem. It is/was my rain shields and air filter?

I spend yesterday cleaning everything in the carbs again, retimed the engine, new dizzy cap, installed the 30mm vents, and plugged the vent lock bolt (one was missing). Took the car out for a spin and it rang great

Reinstalled the rain shields and the car ran like crap. I pulled over and removed the rain shields for the ride home...It ran great. and pulled good up to 5000prm with no problem

WTF

I have what appear to be K&N filters and metal rain shields. Is this a common issue or is something else still wrong?

I LOVE the way the carbs sound without the water shields

Cheers

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 22 2005, 06:08 AM

No, it is not common.
Do you have tall velocity stacks?.....do they come close to the air cleaner hat?
Is the filter element clean?

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 22 2005, 06:23 AM

Never heard of this before

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 07:36 AM

The stacks are about 2"-3" tall. The filters came with the carbs and it's hard to tell if it is dirty they are some sort of K&N filters. They require oil, which I haven't done yet, but show no sign of beeing clogged

I think the top of the stack is may be an 1" below the top of the filter. I'll try to track down a set of new filters for my water shields. I have never had a dirty filter cause an engine to act this BAD.

I'll snap some photos tonight

Cheers

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 22 2005, 10:06 AM

I'd guess that the stacks are too close to the top of the tops. Also, just get a K&N filter cleaner kit with new oil. Easie peasie. Might be able to make a spacer or something to give you more space for the air to not have to make a u-turn to get under the rain hats and down the stacks. Just a thought.
Good luck, is it still smoking like at the cookout?

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 10:17 AM

No smoke (much much less). I took it for a few runs and it seems to have stopped. Up until then it has just idled with a few revs up to 5000rpm with no load.

I am looking for a replacement filter. Seems like K&N are nothing but trouble and I should get rid of them. I just need to find a paper filter to fit into the weber water shields.

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 22 2005, 11:03 AM

Bah, K&N is fine for an application like this, just as long as they are cleaned of crud and oiled properly. Not like you're going to drive it through a dust storm or have a super dirty engine bay right?

Could find some high K&Ns or do like '2.7Racer' did on this thread:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=211483&perpage=20&pagenumber=7

Posted by: trekkor Sep 22 2005, 11:22 AM

Glad to hear you are getting things sorted.

Your troubles sounded just like mine during my first week.
Check the dwell angle if you still have points.
Being slightly of acted like a rev limiter on my motor, keeping me below 5000rpm's. I like 7300 better

Get a Pertronix Ignitor for your dizzy if you can.
Mines been flawless.

I like the sound without air filters better, too

KT


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Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 11:22 AM

Interesting

I saw a 5" tall filter on the K&N site. I'll need to measure the engine lid clearance. I know I had to remove the OEM rain tray to close the lid.

I am just surprised more haven’t had any issues since everything I have for an intake standard stuff. I will first clean up the filters and see if that helps.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 11:27 AM

KT, how tall are your filters? Any issues when driving in the rain (Well have you been cought in the rain yet?)

I am running a Crane setup XR3000 and a PS-91 coil...NO points

Posted by: trekkor Sep 22 2005, 11:30 AM

QUOTE

clean up the filters

Way to go...Easy too.
I line a five gallon bucket with a garbage bag, add some dish soap and water. Drop in your filters and agitate.

Gently rinse and shake them out. Leave 'em out in the sun all day, oil and re-install.

I do it every three months ( no engine tin )

KT

Posted by: trekkor Sep 22 2005, 11:37 AM

QUOTE

how tall are your filters?

I will measure them if you like.
They are the ones that came with my rain-shields that I currently am not using.

Remember the super tall K&N's that came with my motor?
I still have those. I dont think they will fit in our cars, though.


KT


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Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 22 2005, 12:09 PM

QUOTE (trekkor @ Sep 22 2005, 01:37 PM)

Remember the super tall K&N's that came with my motor? I still have those. I dont think they will fit in our cars, though.

i bet they'll fit my 911 ...

if you want to recoup some of your expense, let me know what you'd take for them...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 03:47 PM

No need to clean them I guess the PO never ran velocity stacks

Anyone need a set of 2.25" high K&N filters


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Posted by: goose2 Sep 22 2005, 03:49 PM

quick and dirty solution....shorten the stacks?

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 03:50 PM

Since I need new filters what is a good set to get? K&N, foam filter, or a paper?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 22 2005, 03:56 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Sep 22 2005, 05:50 PM)

Since I need new filters what is a good set to get? K&N, foam filter, or a paper?

in the very near term, i can loan you a factory air cleaner housing, and by probably Monday, the OEM-style K&N filter cannister to fit it.

for a dual-style like you have, the ITG's Pegasus Racing sells look very nice. i may still wind up using those - i donno what i'll use, exactly. that's why i'm trying to get Trekkor to sell me his tall ones :-)

i think for a Q&D short-term solution, you could get some particle board or Masonite and just make about 1/2" "spacer" to raise the base of the filter; you'd need longer hold-down towers, of course...

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 04:04 PM

Thanks for the offer but I have the OEM canister sitting on my shelf..Not a big fan of that air filter assembly. I wouldn't beed doing alot of driving this weekend anyhow.

I'll try to get a set ordered tonight and I should have them by next weekend. I woncder if a local speed shop would have anything

CHeers

Posted by: sixnotfour Sep 22 2005, 04:47 PM

Kerry the Air Cleaners you have are a PMO set up for a 911 with air conditioning . (Short)
The kit also comes with short stacks , which you obiviously dont have.
Glad see its a simple Fix .

you will also need the longer studs. I have the short stacks , but you will be better off with the tall Air Cleaners/Stacks

Posted by: trekkor Sep 22 2005, 04:59 PM

QUOTE

i'm trying to get Trekkor to sell me his tall ones :-)

Rich, you have been so helpful in the past with my Weber questions. PM address info and they are yours.

Kerry, i believe HPH has them in stock.

KT

Posted by: J P Stein Sep 22 2005, 05:13 PM

Damn, that'll do it
Never seen that before.........nice to see that Jeff has.
I like ITGs, but they are no good for the rain.

Posted by: Kerrys914 Sep 22 2005, 05:18 PM

I know..I NEVER thought to check the height of the filters. I tore my carbs apart and tried everything BUT. I am glad i took it for a spin without the filters on... Dumb luck I guess.

The K&N filter listed is 3.25" high. I would like to have closer to 4" but I don't see that size listed.

K&N filters are $30/each + shipping + oil

Posted by: 9146986 Sep 22 2005, 08:35 PM

QUOTE (Kerrys914 @ Sep 22 2005, 02:04 PM)

Thanks for the offer but I have the OEM canister sitting on my shelf..Not a big fan of that air filter assembly. I wouldn't beed doing alot of driving this weekend anyhow.

I knew something had to be screwy! I've sold about ten sets of watershields without any problems. If you go with taller air filters, you'll need taller standoff studs to mount the top hat.

Actually the factory aircleaner assembly has very good flow, it just doesn't always fit just right in a conversion. There is a common mod to the snorkle of the factory aircleaner that improves intake velocity.

Posted by: JmuRiz Sep 23 2005, 08:56 AM

QUOTE (9146986 @ Sep 22 2005, 06:35 PM)

There is a common mod to the snorkle of the factory aircleaner that improves intake velocity.

What mod would that be?

Glad to hear my hunch was right (there's a first time for everything, haha). I'd say go with the higher filters or stock box modded. I think the stock-style airbox looks kindda cool if it's painted/polished up to look like new. Very sleeper

I agree, there should be a 4" K&N, but you can always do a spacer for the filter to make it all fit nicely...whatever you do, glad to hear it's an easy fix. You'll be blowing everyone's doors off next cookout!

Posted by: Root_Werks Sep 23 2005, 09:12 AM

QUOTE (JmuRiz @ Sep 23 2005, 06:56 AM)

QUOTE (9146986 @ Sep 22 2005, 06:35 PM) There is a common mod to the snorkle of the factory aircleaner that improves intake velocity.

Yes and no, you can cut the round opening bigger which helps. But it is still restrictive compared to simple K&N set ups. I have a stock set up on a set of 46's right now. With the air cleaner top on, if you stab the throttle fast and hard, you can actually see the housing suck down and make a funny noise. Mine is a later plastic set up. I have a set of K&N's I will be putting on this weekend.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Sep 23 2005, 09:17 AM

the intermediate approach, which i am using on the 911 right now, is to use the cylindrical OEM-form K&N element in the stock housing.