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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Need legal advice...

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 15 2005, 02:40 PM

I've brought up this topic before... going back nearly a year. I'll see if I can make a long story short:

1. A year ago, 914 gets tagged to be emission tested.
2. Car won't pass
3. Adusted carbs, lowered idle, poured in dry gas, nothing.
4. Car failes emissions miserably 3 times
** BTW, my car runs FANTASTIC
5. I file for an "extension" on the emissions requirement
6. Never hear back, assume everything's ok
7. Car registration expired 31 May
8. Go in today to get new registration sticker
9. Find out car's tags have been suspended since last June...... oops
10. Give up, and call the Illinois EPA to find out how to register the car as an antique.

Ok, so I'm going to register it as an antique...... Which means that "technically" I'm not supposed to drive it anywhere other than car shows, races, events, etc...... or if I'm performing maintenance or something.

Truth be told... I'm unsure of exactly what the law says.

In addition...... what do I do if I get pulled over, and I'm just out for a Sunday drive or something??

I've heard that it's good to keep a couple quarts of oil in the car, or some tools.... I dunno. How well does that work? W#ill it stand up in court?

Posted by: TimT Jun 15 2005, 03:00 PM

cant speak for Illinois DMV laws, but i had my 911 registered as a hostpric vehicle, and I could drive it where ever I wanted, rack up all the miles I wanted etc..

The restriction I believe comes from the insurance co. If you insure the car as an antique/collectible they limit the amount of use you are allowed..

Of course this is based on my experiences in NY

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 15 2005, 03:09 PM

The full text of all of the relevant laws should be online somewhere. You owe it to yourself to find and read the law.

I presume you live on the IL side of the river if you're looking into IL law, not MO law. In MO, not everyplace has the same requirements. When I lived in St. Louis (in STL county), I had to submit to the annual safety and emissions test (this was up to 1994). My father, who lives on the opposite side of the state in Greene County, doesn't have ANY annual inspection of any kind. If I still lived in MO, I'd probably have all of my cars registered at by dad's address, not mine. IL may be similar.

That said, passing emissions shouldn't be all that difficult unless you have a '75 (or '76), even with carbs. What were the actual emissions numbers? I suspect you're actually running fairly rich, even if you say this is "fantastic". The Federal limit for '74 was on the order of 400ppm HC and 3.0% CO, which is incredibly high, and certainly indicates a very rich-running engine. For '75, the limits got a good bit tighter, and passing w/o a catalytic convertor is not as easy, but it's still possible. I know someone in So Cal who managed to get a '75 Alfa to pass the tailpipe test with dual Webers (car originally had mechanical FI), and CA limits are lower than Federal limits. If you took the time to properly calibrate your carbs (using a gas analyzer or a wideband O2 setup), you'd probably pick up some power and better mileage, as well as passing the smog test. If you have a '75 or '76, plumbing in a $150 aftermarket catalytic convertor would make a gigantic difference to your emissions.

Posted by: messix Jun 15 2005, 04:27 PM

please post the failed results.

most likely just some idle mixture tuning.

i was able to get my '75 jeep with a bigger engine and big cam and no c/converter to pass.

Posted by: VegasRacer Jun 15 2005, 04:45 PM

QUOTE (lapuwali @ Jun 15 2005, 02:09 PM)
The full text of all of the relevant laws should be online somewhere. You owe it to yourself to find and read the law.

http://dor.mo.gov/mvdl/motorv/historic.htm
To qualify for historic license plates, a vehicle must be 25 years old or older, owned solely as a collector’s item, and used for exhibition and educational purposes.

Historic vehicles may be driven to and from events and to repair facilities within a 100 mile limit, and may be driven up to 1000 miles per year for personal use. The owner is responsible for keeping a log of the miles driven for personal use each calendar year. The log must be kept in the vehicle when the vehicle is being driven on any state road.

Posted by: aircooledboy Jun 15 2005, 06:26 PM

Hey Dude,
I'm an Illinois criminal and traffic atty. There is no good reason to go antique in Illinios. It saves you about $40, but you are limited to driving required for repairs, parade and show appearances. If you get stopped for something else under circumstances that make that a tough sell, you will get nicked for the ticket, and you will have to show you were "engaged in an appropriate use". If you can't, you will eat the ticket, AND the Sec. of State will revoke your registration. Just get a standard tag.

The bigger question is how will you demonstrate residency. If you get IL tags, and later get a ticket in any state but Wisconsin, and you have a non-Illinois driver's license, Illinois will find out about it, and there is about a 70% chance they will cancel the tags.

Posted by: Verruckt Jun 15 2005, 06:49 PM

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Jun 15 2005, 02:40 PM)

Ok, so I'm going to register it as an antique...... Which means that "technically" I'm not supposed to drive it anywhere other than car shows, races, events, etc...... or if I'm performing maintenance or something.

Wherever you are, you are on your way to JiffyLube, or a cruise night (aka car show). Do you REALLY think the cop will care?

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 16 2005, 07:51 AM

QUOTE (aircooledboy @ Jun 15 2005, 04:26 PM)
Hey Dude,
I'm an Illinois criminal and traffic atty. There is no good reason to go antique in Illinios. It saves you about $40, but you are limited to driving required for repairs, parade and show appearances. If you get stopped for something else under circumstances that make that a tough sell, you will get nicked for the ticket, and you will have to show you were "engaged in an appropriate use". If you can't, you will eat the ticket, AND the Sec. of State will revoke your registration. Just get a standard tag.

The bigger question is how will you demonstrate residency. If you get IL tags, and later get a ticket in any state but Wisconsin, and you have a non-Illinois driver's license, Illinois will find out about it, and there is about a 70% chance they will cancel the tags.

Hmmmm..

So is it just a matter of telling the officer I just recently performed repairs? Or that I'm headed to (or from) a car show?

Honestly..... I only drive the car on nice days..... and if I leave the state, it's over to St. Louis.

I am an Illinois resident, and I do have an IL license.

Posted by: porsche914blue Jun 16 2005, 08:27 AM

Check your Antique laws carefully - here in VA we have similar restrictions but there's a clause that states something like; . . . and the occasional joy ride.

Every time I drive the car it's for a joy ride, if I got pulled over I'd probably tell them that I just did repairs (which I usually have done anyway). In the 3 years I've had antique tags I've never been bothered once.

Have a friend with a 70 Firebird with antique plates, he drives it almost daily. Never been hassled.

Posted by: MattR Jun 16 2005, 08:45 AM

I think there is only one solution: drop in a 3.6l six that will pass smog

I hate the smog laws though. I had to get rid of a nice, rust free fiat because it wouldnt pass smog here in cali. Its a real frustruation with dealing with older cars that werent designed to pass smog. Good luck!

Posted by: ! Jun 16 2005, 09:05 AM

I have historical (HYSTERICAL on Frank) tags on two cars. The DMV was so clueless when I asked for them I figure the PD will be even less so.

Here in CA there are similar restrictions. I figure if I get pulled over going to work, the line is.....I'll be dropping it off to get detailed (RIGHT), worked on or the air changed in the tires at lunch.

The restrictions are SO totally unenforceable....PLUS...you actually pay MORE for the stoopid things. I only got them cause they are different. Kind of like the reason I have a 356, 914 and a 911....

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 16 2005, 09:05 AM

Thanks.

I think I'll be ok..... I never get pulled over in the teener anyway.

But..... I could always say I'm going to, or coming from a cruise night or something.... I just did repairs.... just coming back (or to) the parts store... whatever..... Im sure I can think of something.

The only thing that might cause any problem at all would be coming home fro9m a bar or something at 2am... kinda hard to justify that... but I rarely take it out like that anyway.

I think I'll be ok.... just a big pain in the ass.

Posted by: aircooledboy Jun 16 2005, 09:32 AM

The main reason I didn't get an antique tag: they are hugly.
Sort of a faded tan/off white with red lettters.

Posted by: ! Jun 16 2005, 09:58 AM

WARNING....senseless rambling follows....

Funny thing....the Hysterical plates here are non reflectorized white background with red letters. Yeah...they be FUGLEE too...

Current CA plates are reflectorized white with blue...some say for better radar return....we also REQUIRE front plates....84 and up

Prior plates were blue background with yellow letters...70-84ish...

Before that Black with yellow letters....62ish-69ish

Anyhow, the Hysterical plates are recycled blue plates like I mentioned from the late 70s and early 80s....so the prison where they make them, they DO have the old plates....but if ya want a personalized plate in blue.....even if it's a replacement...NO WAY.....gotta love it....

You oughtta see the tizzy the 356 weenies get into when discussing original issue plates on the cars....

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 16 2005, 12:16 PM

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just spent an hour over at the damn testing station..... while at the same time, on fucking HOLD with the Illinois state EPA.

Well..... now the story is different.... they will not release the suspension on my tags until the car passes emissions, or until I sell the car.

THEN.... I can register it as an antique... but then, why the hell would I want to?

So.... now I've got to figure out some other way to get this damn thing to pass...... back to the drawing board.

Posted by: porsche914blue Jun 16 2005, 12:37 PM

Post some numbers, there are plenty of people here who can help figure out why your car is failing smog. Do they just do an idle/fixed rpm sniffer reading or does Illinois have a roller smog test?

Posted by: grantsfo Jun 16 2005, 12:38 PM

QUOTE (ninefourteener @ Jun 16 2005, 10:16 AM)
AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just spent an hour over at the damn testing station..... while at the same time, on fucking HOLD with the Illinois state EPA.

Well..... now the story is different.... they will not release the suspension on my tags until the car passes emissions, or until I sell the car.

THEN.... I can register it as an antique... but then, why the hell would I want to?

So.... now I've got to figure out some other way to get this damn thing to pass...... back to the drawing board.

Move to California, your car is exempt here!

Have you tried running real lean with a fuel that has high alcohol/ethynol content just for the test? I know somone who did that and passed after failing on regular pump gas

Posted by: xsboost90 Jun 16 2005, 12:42 PM

ive seen lots of car w/ antique tags running around w/ no problems. THey are supposed to check your milage to confirm you are driving too much, but usually dont. My gpa runs around or used to on antique tags all the time. That being said, his friend in the model A club drove his to work every day, and a cop that he passed every day reported him and got his tags pulled. Just really being a prick i guess. Drive it as much as you want just not every day to work is what i say.

Posted by: lapuwali Jun 16 2005, 12:46 PM

Again, post your test numbers. What size is your engine? What cam do you have? What jets are you running? What year is the car, and what's the limit you're trying to beat?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 16 2005, 12:53 PM

I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on the list. Haven't even stayed at a Holiday Inn Express. My advice? Adhere to both the letter and the intent of the law. I realize it's become really popular in the past few years to pick and choose which laws you think apply to you, and which ones you can self-righteously ignore. Look at all the Bozos that park in handicap spaces "just for a minute". See 'em outside Gold's Gym all the time. If your car can't pass the smog test, either make it do so or park it and stop whining. The energy you spend trying to be devious is better spent solving the problem. End of rant. The Cap'n