Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 1st Gear Difficult to Engage
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 17 2018, 11:12 AM
I have had a problem with engaging 1st gear ever since I have had this 914. I have already done all the bushings and rebuilt the transmission. I can easily engage all the other gears including reverse.
I really have to pull hard to the left and down to actually engage 1st gear. It feels like a linkage issue but reverse is very easy to engage so I am not sure that is the case.
Does this just sound like a basic linkage adjustment issue? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Jeff B
Posted by: toolguy Sep 17 2018, 12:14 PM
If you are still rolling a little, does it go in 1st OK ? only difficult when at a dead stop?
Tail shift or side shifter ?
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Sep 17 2018, 01:14 PM
the 901 style gearbox is notorious of being hard to pull into first at various times when the car is not moving even when in perfect condition. One may have to shift into another gear , and then go back into first or actually put in another gear move the car a bit forward or backward and then go into first.
It is when the transmission grinds going into first (but not reverse) or pops out that first gear is bad
I have had a problem with engaging 1st gear ever since I have had this 914. I have already done all the bushings and rebuilt the transmission. I can easily engage all the other gears including reverse.
I really have to pull hard to the left and down to actually engage 1st gear. It feels like a linkage issue but reverse is very easy to engage so I am not sure that is the case.
Does this just sound like a basic linkage adjustment issue? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Jeff B
Posted by: gereed75 Sep 17 2018, 01:29 PM
one last suggestion - You may be hitting the end of the gear shift lever travel before the trans is completely engaged. The fix is to loosen the connection just behind the gear selector on the shift shaft. Shorten the shaft a bit and then retighten the coupler. This will give you a bit more pull on the shaft and thus a bit more travel on the actual gear selector back in the selector console before the shift lever travel hits the stops.
Worth a try.
Posted by: burton73 Sep 17 2018, 02:42 PM
If the car is in neutral, I always put the car in second first then 1st. No problems. All cars 911 or 914
Bob B
Posted by: pete000 Sep 17 2018, 02:51 PM
Both my 914s are fussy going into first when stopped. I just make it a habit to get it in first before the wheels stop moving.
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 17 2018, 08:41 PM
If you are still rolling a little, does it go in 1st OK ? only difficult when at a dead stop?
Tail shift or side shifter ?
It is a 1973 side shifting transmission. Shifting into second gear then back to first doesn’t seem to help since it doesn’t feel llike a synchro issue.
Jeff B
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 17 2018, 08:44 PM
one last suggestion - You may be hitting the end of the gear shift lever travel before the trans is completely engaged. The fix is to loosen the connection just behind the gear selector on the shift shaft. Shorten the shaft a bit and then retighten the coupler. This will give you a bit more pull on the shaft and thus a bit more travel on the actual gear selector back in the selector console before the shift lever travel hits the stops.
Worth a try.
This suggestion makes sense to me since it does feel like the linkage is binding. I will give your suggestion a try this weekend.
Jeff B
Posted by: djway Sep 17 2018, 09:08 PM
I have owned many an aircooled that had this problem
Every single one was a clutch cable tube that had one or more mounting points that were broken.
I just repaired my current 914 recently and it goes into 1st now no problem
Posted by: Lucky9146 Sep 17 2018, 10:46 PM
I have had a problem with engaging 1st gear ever since I have had this 914. I have already done all the bushings and rebuilt the transmission. I can easily engage all the other gears including reverse.
I really have to pull hard to the left and down to actually engage 1st gear. It feels like a linkage issue but reverse is very easy to engage so I am not sure that is the case.
Does this just sound like a basic linkage adjustment issue? Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.
Jeff B
Glad you posted this thread as I experience the same issue with first. I am very interested in all the comments and information that have come out. I am embarking on a 915 trans swap for my car but will be living with the 901 for some time till I get things ready. Hope you get yours sorted.
Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 18 2018, 08:56 AM
Man I chase this issue for customers, often. On rare occasions this happens with a rebuild, too. While it is often endemic of the 901 box, there are things that can be done with time and effort, if all externals are 100%. However, ass mentioned above, there are external issues that are often overlooked. The tube is a big one. First does not take kindly to poorly adjusted clutch cables, things in the tunnel hitting the shifter, poor adjustment, bushings, etc. IN the end, the only thing internally to do is change the teeth/band/break bands/blocks/slider and hope for the best. I can often find a less stiff or more stiff band to change this condition depending on the condition of the one that came out of the box. Its a read and react scenario at that point.
Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 18 2018, 09:05 AM
Some further internal mechanics to consider that can cause this issue.
When you select 1st (or any gear) you push the slider onto the synchro band. The synchro band compresses just enough to let the slider pop on and engage the "dog teeth". The synchro band rotates a little during this evolution and that is when it pushes on the blocks and break bands inside of the synchro band. These push against the synchro band and cause it to push on the inner surface of the slider where it locks the slider to the synchro band and holds it against the dog teeth.
If the band is worn, the slider does not get smooth engagement with the teeth (grinding) and can pop off of the teeth because the band cant lock it into place (popping out of gear on acceleration).
This is why you need to look at what you have for these parts installed, and using the above understanding you need to select what needs tweaked. Often, I find that bands are too strong so that compressing them with the slider is difficult. The opposite yields the same issue, though, in that the band is too loose and rotates too easily so it energizes all of the break bands and blocks inside thus keeping the band too rigid and making the slider very difficult to force on.
What is interesting is that 1 and R are on the same slider, and 2 is not. So, putting it in 2nd indicates that there is likely external issues at play; clutch drag, shifter alignment, etc.
Posted by: VaccaRabite Sep 18 2018, 10:55 AM
Usually going into first is not an issue for me.
Like others have said though, when it is I can either shift into second and then into first or release and repress the clutch to get first to engage. for the most part though, first will engage with a nice, confident "thunk."
Zach
Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 18 2018, 11:20 AM
Usually going into first is not an issue for me.
Like others have said though, when it is I can either shift into second and then into first or release and repress the clutch to get first to engage. for the most part though, first will engage with a nice, confident "thunk."
Zach
Wow, who built your transmission??
Posted by: 914Toy Sep 18 2018, 01:58 PM
Some further internal mechanics to consider that can cause this issue.
When you select 1st (or any gear) you push the slider onto the synchro band. The synchro band compresses just enough to let the slider pop on and engage the "dog teeth". The synchro band rotates a little during this evolution and that is when it pushes on the blocks and break bands inside of the synchro band. These push against the synchro band and cause it to push on the inner surface of the slider where it locks the slider to the synchro band and holds it against the dog teeth.
If the band is worn, the slider does not get smooth engagement with the teeth (grinding) and can pop off of the teeth because the band cant lock it into place (popping out of gear on acceleration).
This is why you need to look at what you have for these parts installed, and using the above understanding you need to select what needs tweaked. Often, I find that bands are too strong so that compressing them with the slider is difficult. The opposite yields the same issue, though, in that the band is too loose and rotates too easily so it energizes all of the break bands and blocks inside thus keeping the band too rigid and making the slider very difficult to force on.
With a professionally rebuilt 901 with side shift, I have difficulty getting into second with car stationary, but easy into second if the car is moving forward even at a slow rate. You and I concluded earlier that I probably have a too rigid band. Can I expect this too rigid band to become less rigid with more miles?
What is interesting is that 1 and R are on the same slider, and 2 is not. So, putting it in 2nd indicates that there is likely external issues at play; clutch drag, shifter alignment, etc.
Posted by: 914Toy Sep 18 2018, 01:59 PM
Hmmm - my message did not attach?
Will send again.
Posted by: 914Toy Sep 18 2018, 02:03 PM
Does the passage of time and miles reduce this band stiffness
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 19 2018, 05:58 AM
Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks! 
I already reinforced the clutch tube so I sure hope it is still good but I will check. Since reverse is very easily engaged I think that would rule out the clutch since it would affect both 1st and reverse.
To clarify, when I engage 1st it never grinds it just binds (like it is blocked) if I don't pull very hard to the left and pull down hard on the shifter. This most likely does point to a shifter adjustment although I thought I did it right.
Jeff B
Posted by: djway Sep 19 2018, 10:13 AM
Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks!
I already reinforced the clutch tube so I sure hope it is still good but I will check. Since reverse is very easily engaged I think that would rule out the clutch since it would affect both 1st and reverse.
To clarify, when I engage 1st it never grinds it just binds (like it is blocked) if I don't pull very hard to the left and pull down hard on the shifter. This most likely does point to a shifter adjustment although I thought I did it right.
Jeff B
One clue as to the cause either being the transmission or the clutch cable tube system would be, how far off the floor does the clutch pedal rise before the club starts to engage?
Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 19 2018, 11:05 AM
Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks!
I already reinforced the clutch tube so I sure hope it is still good but I will check. Since reverse is very easily engaged I think that would rule out the clutch since it would affect both 1st and reverse.
To clarify, when I engage 1st it never grinds it just binds (like it is blocked) if I don't pull very hard to the left and pull down hard on the shifter. This most likely does point to a shifter adjustment although I thought I did it right.
Jeff B
One clue as to the cause either being the transmission or the clutch cable tube system would be, how far off the floor does the clutch pedal rise before the club starts to engage?
To illustrate this, check my sig below to download my 31 pages of notes as it goes over adjustment and symptoms.
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 19 2018, 12:45 PM
Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks!
I already reinforced the clutch tube so I sure hope it is still good but I will check. Since reverse is very easily engaged I think that would rule out the clutch since it would affect both 1st and reverse.
To clarify, when I engage 1st it never grinds it just binds (like it is blocked) if I don't pull very hard to the left and pull down hard on the shifter. This most likely does point to a shifter adjustment although I thought I did it right.
Jeff B
One clue as to the cause either being the transmission or the clutch cable tube system would be, how far off the floor does the clutch pedal rise before the club starts to engage?
I believe that it engages fairly high like shown on Dr. Evil's very helpful trouble shooting info. I will certainly verify it this weekend.
Jeff B
Posted by: djway Sep 19 2018, 02:21 PM
Wow, what a wealth of information! Thanks!
I already reinforced the clutch tube so I sure hope it is still good but I will check. Since reverse is very easily engaged I think that would rule out the clutch since it would affect both 1st and reverse.
To clarify, when I engage 1st it never grinds it just binds (like it is blocked) if I don't pull very hard to the left and pull down hard on the shifter. This most likely does point to a shifter adjustment although I thought I did it right.
Jeff B
One clue as to the cause either being the transmission or the clutch cable tube system would be, how far off the floor does the clutch pedal rise before the club starts to engage?
If that is the case then next recheck your linkage and adjustment if that’s not it…
I believe that it engages fairly high like shown on Dr. Evil's very helpful trouble shooting info. I will certainly verify it this weekend.
Jeff B
Posted by: jkb944t Sep 24 2018, 10:42 AM
I didn’t have too much time this weekend to work on the 914 but I did readjust the shifter linkage. I think it made a slight improvement for engaging 1st gear but it still blocks me out sometimes. I am beginning to think that this just may be a normal issue occasionally with the 901 transmission as Dr. Evil and Dr.914 mentioned. It always seems to go into 1st without any issue if I am downshifting into 1st while the car is rolling.
Adjusting the shift lever just slightly did make a huge difference in the feel from 1st to 2nd gear. Previously it was very easy to nick the reverse gear if you weren’t careful. Now it feels so much better and more positive going into 2nd gear.
I checked my clutch and it was engaging a little on the low side, so I made an adjustment to improve it somewhat. I think the clutch cable is fairly new but I don’t have any more adjustment available now. I observed no movement of the clutch tube at the firewall or down in the center tunnel. Since it has not ever had any issue with grinding the gears I think the clutch is working correctly.
I’ll have to get some more seat time before I can confirm the results of the weekends adjustments but it does appear that it is significantly improved.
Jeff B
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)