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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Putting FI back on a 2.0l

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 6 2018, 07:13 AM

Good morning and happy Saturday.

I bought a low mile rebuilt 2.0l engine that has carbs but also came with a full FI set up up that supposed worked fine before someone got an overdose of testosterone and felt the urge to tweak the fuel system (prior owners description evilgrin.gif ).

Anyone put FI back on a car? Seems fairly straight forward but....


Posted by: mepstein Oct 6 2018, 07:54 AM

I would. A good working fi makes the car a real pleasure to drive.

Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 6 2018, 08:03 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 6 2018, 06:13 AM) *

Good morning and happy Saturday.

I bought a low mile rebuilt 2.0l engine that has carbs but also came with a full FI set up up that supposed worked fine before someone got an overdose of testosterone and felt the urge to tweak the fuel system (prior owners description evilgrin.gif ).

Anyone put FI back on a car? Seems fairly straight forward but....


Yes it certainly has been done. I would test each of the components if possible prior to installation. You will have much better mileage and driveability with FI.
Going to reinstall my FI after doing a valve job. Do you have the correct fuel pump and distributor? Test the distributor for holding vacuum. Most leak. I would also take the dizzy apart , clean and lube the plates. Makes a big difference. I have seen many "ran great when pulled" parts that needed work. Best one was an engine that was said to have a small ticking sound. One piston had a hole you could drop a golf ball thru. Inspect the wire harness for cracked insulation and bad connectors. I have many spare harnesses that can be used for parts.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Oct 6 2018, 08:44 AM

I believe the factory FI is the best way to go. I also think for value, a lot of people, (me included if I were looking for another 914) would shy away from a car that had been converted to carbs.

I have always thought one of the best upgrades for the 914 was to do a 2056 build with the factory FI. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 6 2018, 10:42 AM

OK-I'm sold. I've got a bunch of planning to do before I use this engine and FYI set up, but it clears the path to my putting the dual carbs that I'll be removing onto the red 1974 a.k.a. turbo car to get that monstrosity sorted out.

Thanks!

Posted by: GeorgeRud Oct 6 2018, 10:58 AM

A friend just recently did this on his 914 2.0. Seemed pretty straightforward if all the components are present.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Oct 6 2018, 11:02 AM

It would be a rare person/circumstance to take off a perfectly functional FI system to change to carbs. You can be 99% sure one or more FI components are not working and will need replacement and its pretty easy to troubleshoot most of them.

Posted by: mgphoto Oct 6 2018, 11:05 AM

Check to see if the cam is FI. Carb cams different animal and will not run well with D-Jet.

Posted by: bbrock Oct 6 2018, 11:15 AM

QUOTE(mgphoto @ Oct 6 2018, 11:05 AM) *

Check to see if the cam is FI. Carb cams different animal and will not run well with D-Jet.


agree.gif +1 The cam is often changed when engines are converted to carbs. It's the only reason I've put restoring my original FI on the back burner.

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 6 2018, 12:47 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Oct 6 2018, 12:15 PM) *

QUOTE(mgphoto @ Oct 6 2018, 11:05 AM) *

Check to see if the cam is FI. Carb cams different animal and will not run well with D-Jet.


agree.gif +1 The cam is often changed when engines are converted to carbs. It's the only reason I've put restoring my original FI on the back burner.


Oh, well that is a good consideration.

I have no idea.

Posted by: flmont Oct 9 2018, 06:50 PM

is there a after market system for the 2.0 Ltr engine..?

Posted by: RFoulds Oct 9 2018, 07:02 PM

I just did this. Anders posted a good parts list with all the parts and correct part numbers. Made it easy to verify all my parts were there and compatible with each other.
https://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/DJetParts.htm#parts



Posted by: struckn Oct 9 2018, 07:07 PM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 6 2018, 10:47 AM) *

QUOTE(bbrock @ Oct 6 2018, 12:15 PM) *

QUOTE(mgphoto @ Oct 6 2018, 11:05 AM) *

Check to see if the cam is FI. Carb cams different animal and will not run well with D-Jet.


agree.gif +1 The cam is often changed when engines are converted to carbs. It's the only reason I've put restoring my original FI on the back burner.


Oh, well that is a good consideration.

I have no idea.




Changing the flat 4 cam is a lot of work. You will need to pull the engine out and remove everything necessary to be able to SPLIT THE ENGINE CASE OPEN to get to where you can pull the cam out to replace it. You'll also need to replace the fuel pump to get the correct pressure for FI.

Enjoy the car with carbs for now and put off the cam change.

Even worse would be IF the original cam for FI was never changed when the FI was removed.
[i][color=#333333] huh.gif

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 10 2018, 07:17 AM

QUOTE(struckn @ Oct 9 2018, 08:07 PM) *


Changing the flat 4 cam is a lot of work. You will need to pull the engine out and remove everything necessary to be able to SPLIT THE ENGINE CASE OPEN to get to where you can pull the cam out to replace it. You'll also need to replace the fuel pump to get the correct pressure for FI.

Enjoy the car with carbs for now and put off the cam change.

Even worse would be IF the original cam for FI was never changed when the FI was removed.
[i][color=#333333] huh.gif


Is there anyway to tell, short of disaseembky, what cam is in it?

It was an FI engine that was rebuilt with FI on it before it was switched (based on what I was told).

The way the '73 1.7 yellow FI car instantly starts and idles and pulls is compelling.

Posted by: mepstein Oct 10 2018, 07:28 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 10 2018, 09:17 AM) *

QUOTE(struckn @ Oct 9 2018, 08:07 PM) *


Changing the flat 4 cam is a lot of work. You will need to pull the engine out and remove everything necessary to be able to SPLIT THE ENGINE CASE OPEN to get to where you can pull the cam out to replace it. You'll also need to replace the fuel pump to get the correct pressure for FI.

Enjoy the car with carbs for now and put off the cam change.

Even worse would be IF the original cam for FI was never changed when the FI was removed.
[i][color=#333333] huh.gif


Is there anyway to tell, short of disaseembky, what cam is in it?

It was an FI engine that was rebuilt with FI on it before it was switched (based on what I was told).

The way the '73 1.7 yellow FI car instantly starts and idles and pulls is compelling.

35-40 mpg and no gas smell isn’t bad either.

Posted by: brenz Oct 10 2018, 10:11 AM

Is there anyway to tell, short of disaseembky, what cam is in it?

You can see the end of the cam if you remove the oil pump. An aftermarket cam will have a model number stamped there. Not sure what the stock markings are.




Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Oct 10 2018, 10:24 AM

very easy to reinstall just hope that they did not change the camshaft. You will need new injector seals, new vacuum line kit, new upper fuel line kit, new intake runner boots and intake blocks, new ignition points and condenser, new air cleaner, new head temp sensor new fuel filter, new throttle body gasket, new cold start gaskets, and as previously stated test the components. clean the trigger points and recap, evacuate the pressure sensor check the fuel pump for leaks, test the injectors, then you should be all set


QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 6 2018, 06:13 AM) *

Good morning and happy Saturday.

I bought a low mile rebuilt 2.0l engine that has carbs but also came with a full FI set up up that supposed worked fine before someone got an overdose of testosterone and felt the urge to tweak the fuel system (prior owners description evilgrin.gif ).

Anyone put FI back on a car? Seems fairly straight forward but....

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 10 2018, 10:45 AM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Oct 10 2018, 12:24 PM) *

very easy to reinstall just hope that they did not change the camshaft. You will need new injector seals, new vacuum line kit, new upper fuel line kit, new intake runner boots and intake blocks, new ignition points and condenser, new air cleaner, new head temp sensor new fuel filter, new throttle body gasket, new cold start gaskets, and as previously stated test the components. clean the trigger points and recap, evacuate the pressure sensor check the fuel pump for leaks, test the injectors, then you should be all set


QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 6 2018, 06:13 AM) *

Good morning and happy Saturday.

I bought a low mile rebuilt 2.0l engine that has carbs but also came with a full FI set up up that supposed worked fine before someone got an overdose of testosterone and felt the urge to tweak the fuel system (prior owners description evilgrin.gif ).

Anyone put FI back on a car? Seems fairly straight forward but....



agree.gif I just did all this after pulling it off to refresh and redo all seals and new tin. In your case your tin is all there , so its pretty easy. Just get all the new gaskets that George listed off, then vac test the MPS to make sure it is good. Get new injector seals- you might want to send them in and have them flow tested and cleaned by Mr. Injector before putting it all on. I also took this opportunity to have my fuel rails and injector retainers zinc plated so they wont rust. Bruce Stone can do this. he also did my plenum and intake runners, so it all looks so nice and clean. You can see this on my build thread, ive posted pictures of most of my progress and steps as I went along. AA has the correct size hoses in their kits, all precut and labled. Also make sure the throttle body is clean and working good. I sent mine in to have it completely taken apart and rebuilt, polished etc and it works like new. If you have any questions ask here and post pictures, those of us that have taken apart and rebuilt the d-jet systems will chime in. also, test your FI wiring harness. Jeff Bowlsby has a step by step to do this. You might want to consider getting a newly rebuilt one, because the old wiring is subject to shorts and failure due to head exposure and age. I got mine from Jeff after I bought my car and that eliminated issues with cracked wiring insulation and connectors. Now once you do this, you wont have to worry about any major issues for a long time.
Oh and make sure your MPS, ECU and distributor are matching numbers wise. It wont run good if you have unmatching components. It will not run if you have a bad CHT or MPS. Other than that it will run.

AND very important, no one has mentioned- you need a different fuel pump with FI. high pressure- 30psi not the 10psi for carbs. You might spent $1200 for new fresh stuff but you can maybe sell the carbs and make some $$ if you need to.

Phil

edit: - bruce stone did mention making sure you have correct fuel pump too-

Posted by: bbrock Oct 10 2018, 11:11 AM

QUOTE(brenz @ Oct 10 2018, 10:11 AM) *

Is there anyway to tell, short of disaseembky, what cam is in it?

You can see the end of the cam if you remove the oil pump. An aftermarket cam will have a model number stamped there. Not sure what the stock markings are.


True, but this won't ID a reground cam which is what I have. Could it be determined by just measuring the lift? That doesn't seem too hard to measure with the cam in place.

Posted by: worn Oct 10 2018, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Oct 10 2018, 10:11 AM) *

QUOTE(brenz @ Oct 10 2018, 10:11 AM) *

Is there anyway to tell, short of disaseembky, what cam is in it?

You can see the end of the cam if you remove the oil pump. An aftermarket cam will have a model number stamped there. Not sure what the stock markings are.


True, but this won't ID a reground cam which is what I have. Could it be determined by just measuring the lift? That doesn't seem too hard to measure with the cam in place.

It certainly can. The trick is measuring with the engine in place. Also there will be homework after the numbers are in to see if the numbers match stock.

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 10 2018, 03:11 PM

Thanks for all of the responses and considerations.

This 2.0l engine is out of the car currently.

Posted by: jcd914 Oct 11 2018, 12:35 AM

QUOTE(Tdskip @ Oct 10 2018, 06:17 AM) *


It was an FI engine that was rebuilt with FI on it before it was switched (based on what I was told).



How much do you trust what you were told?

If it was rebuild and running on the stock FI before the switch to carbs then it still has a FI cam.

Jim

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 11 2018, 06:24 AM

QUOTE(jcd914 @ Oct 11 2018, 01:35 AM) *


How much do you trust what you were told?

If it was rebuild and running on the stock FI before the switch to carbs then it still has a FI cam.

Jim


Hi Jim. Everything seems to check out from what I was told prior to purchase and then what I saw when I went in person to pick it up.

Worst case, I suppose, is that I would put the carbs back on it.

What happens when an FI system meets a carb cam? Earth spin backwards? Dog and Cats start sleeping together? Or just bad timing/fuel ratios?

Thanks!

Posted by: jcd914 Oct 11 2018, 05:01 PM

The cams with higher lift and longer duration and overlap create irregular intake vacuum.
The FI does not handle the vacuum pulses and irregular air flow very well.
A mild carb cam you may just get poor idle quality and poor low rpm drivability.
The more radical the cam the worse the FI handles it.

Personally I would probably take the chance since the process is reversible.
I might take the time to measure the cam lift, duration and timing.

Good luck
Jim

Posted by: 914_teener Oct 12 2018, 02:19 PM

QUOTE(jcd914 @ Oct 11 2018, 04:01 PM) *

The cams with higher lift and longer duration and overlap create irregular intake vacuum.
The FI does not handle the vacuum pulses and irregular air flow very well.
A mild carb cam you may just get poor idle quality and poor low rpm drivability.
The more radical the cam the worse the FI handles it.

Personally I would probably take the chance since the process is reversible.
I might take the time to measure the cam lift, duration and timing.

Good luck
Jim



You can measure both duration and lift with the cam in the engine. It will take some measuring...effort....and math.

It can be done.

Posted by: Tdskip Oct 12 2018, 03:31 PM

I feel another Tech Day topic in the making here...

Is there a how to guide I should be studying?

Thanks!

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