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Posted by: euro911 Oct 8 2018, 03:55 PM

I have all new calipers from Eric Shea to install on our '71 914, and need to install new rotors when it all goes together. I was thinking about installing hub-centric rotors.

Is this possible utilizing the existing early front struts?

What about the rear?

Posted by: TravisNeff Oct 8 2018, 03:57 PM

I think the rotor offset is a little different

Posted by: Dave_Darling Oct 8 2018, 10:28 PM

It is. I don't know if the calipers won't fit, or if they'll fit strangely, but they won't be right.

The rears are the same; they're all lug-centric.

--DD

Posted by: 914Sixer Oct 9 2018, 06:45 AM

Just pick up a set of late struts and go from there. They are cheap and easy to find. Got to go with new ball joints though.

Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 9 2018, 08:43 AM

Double post

Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 9 2018, 08:47 AM

No. Ask me how I know. Requires late struts, rotors, calipers, pads, backing plates, flex lines, hardlines, ball joints and flex line hardware.
Both the caliper and strut offset are different for early and late styles. No interchangability. Only the pad spreaders and pins are the same.
Got some parts you can pick up Sunday at the swap meet. Have the struts and rotors backing plates. CHEAP. The parts that is. Right up your alley.

Maybe Eric will swap the early for late calipers.
Bruce

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=121
@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=7300

Posted by: euro911 Oct 9 2018, 02:05 PM

Thanks for the info, gents. I have everything else to rebuild the original (early) front end, so I'll just purchase some new early rotors ...

I also have a Lemforder turbo tie rod kit - will it fit all years, as is?

Posted by: mepstein Oct 9 2018, 02:21 PM

I also have a Lemforder turbo tie rod kit - will it fit all years, as is? - yes

Posted by: euro911 Oct 9 2018, 04:31 PM

Posted by: bigkensteele Oct 9 2018, 05:34 PM

I have a set of late struts and brakes for cheap if you want them. Off the top of my head, $100 + shipping?

Posted by: r_towle Oct 9 2018, 07:14 PM

You should go for the later struts if only for the ball joint!

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 10 2018, 10:07 AM

Mark, you might inquire about that later front end removed at that work party. Clean it up, install the new parts and bolt it in. In SoCal. Shipping $ for a complete frontend would be steep.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Oct 10 2018, 10:27 AM

no you will have to change the struts to the later model late late 72 above serial number 19.000 or so through 76

Posted by: euro911 Oct 10 2018, 11:14 AM

Hi George.

The reason I posted was because I have a full set of late rotors & bearings, ball joints, bushings and a complete turbo tie rod kit - they're all new parts that were destined for a [late] car that was sold when I closed up shop (2015).

I also have new front & rear calipers from PMB, bushings and ball joints for the '71.


So, in reading the replies so far, I see two different stories:

1. I need to change everything (except the tie rod kit & bushings)?

2. I only need to change to the late struts?

Now I'm confused ... (or more confused than normally)

Posted by: euro911 Dec 24 2018, 04:27 AM

Again, I need more clarification, please.

Needed:

* Late struts - Understood, and I have a few source options. I will need ones that accommodate Bilstein inserts (which I purchased from Kevin Foust a few years ago).
* Late calipers - I can purchase a new pair from Eric and sell the new early [PMB restored] early ones
* Late flexible brake hoses - I can buy new ones from Pelican, or ...


Already have:

* Zimmerman late rotors - including races, bearings & seals
* Lemforder Turbo tie rod kit - including the washers and boots
* Lemforder late ball joints
* Porterfield late brake pads
* One late PMB SS front hard line

* Late A/control arms - I'll be picking up a nice powder-coated pair soon, including new bushings, new Lemforder ball joints and some other newly-plated parts (from Dan)



Questionable items:

* Late backing plates? - how do they differ from early?
* Late hard brake lines? - how to they differ from early?


... anything else

Posted by: 914Sixer Dec 24 2018, 07:42 AM

See if this helps:

Late Struts (install your Bilstein inserts)
Late Backing Plates (different from early VW Type 3)
Late brake hard lines (early can be used just different configuration)
Late brake flex hose
Late Calipers

Posted by: 914_teener Dec 24 2018, 11:14 AM

Yep.

This is what you will need to do for a late front end set up.

And if you don't already have one...put a stock sway bar in with adjustable drop link while you are there.

Posted by: 914Sixer Dec 24 2018, 12:18 PM

Christmas freebie for you Mark, pay freight.

late struts,
shields

Posted by: n2j2ryan Dec 24 2018, 12:44 PM

Doing the same thing. What is early/late when it comes to brakes and front ends. The car I am keeping is a late 72, while the front end I want to swap in is an early 74 (9/73). From what I understand this is a straight swap. I did rebuild the calipers from the 72, is there any advantage to using the dual bleeders on the late?

Posted by: euro911 Dec 24 2018, 02:10 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. I believe I purchased one SS front hard line when Eric has a special deal going on - I can order the other side if/when I order the new late calipers from him.

I appreciate the 'freebie' strut offer too! Mark Epstein also offered up a free pair, but he's even further east ... going to try to source a pair locally first.


Yes, Rob, I will be installing a stock bar that I got from THOMAS many years ago, David Feltzer's custom arm and drop-link set up, and an pair of reinforcement plates that Mark Bland (Engman) made.

Merry Christmas, gentlemen ...

Posted by: djway Dec 24 2018, 07:09 PM

What exactly is different? Lets ignore the pinch ball joint for now.
Is the spindle different?
Are the bearings different?
Is it only the caliper mount? Further in or out? Spacer or machining?
If I recall the BMW caliper bolts right on the early and needs some face machined off for late. I did this for my 74.
If it is only the caliper mount possibilities are opened up.
Chi-Town, do you have any thoughts?

Posted by: mepstein Dec 24 2018, 07:14 PM

See post #6

Posted by: djway Dec 25 2018, 04:23 AM

This is what I have found, all the bearings and spindles are the same. They are also the same as on many T1, T3 and T4 and 924.
The solid rotors are the same diameter but the T3 is 9.5mm thick and the T4 is 11mm thick. Early 914 is the T3 and later is the T4.
The 924 rotor uses the same bearings and is 13mm thick but has a diameter that is about 1/2in different.
The mounting bracket for the caliper compared to the rotor offset is different. When doing the 320 caliper modification the difference in the early and late 914 brake is found on the strut itself. The BMW caliper bolts right on the early but you must remove .125in of material off of the BMW caliper mounting surface to mount on the later strut, which gives you the difference between the two strut types.
There are several 4 piston calipers that are out there than can bolt up but will either need a spacer or machined face depending of the strut caliper combination.
There are as stated above several rotors available and some that will work but the overall diameter may need to be turned down.
There are also vented disc brakes for VW T1 that will go right on the spindle that should work with the 320 caliper for vented rotors and possibly Volvo, also wildwood and I am tracking down several others.
So it actually appears there are many options, if you have access to a machine shop. You can go vented and 4 puck calipers that will bolt on vented disc or bigger calipers on the solid disc.
It appears a machined surface later 914 caliper will work on an early strut with your solid late rotor with hub centric mount.
I am searching for more rotors and calipers that can bolt on with either spacing or machining for the caliper mounting face.

Posted by: euro911 Dec 26 2018, 10:18 PM

Cool. I still need to roll all this around in my head before moving forward, but at least I've learned more about the differences