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Posted by: 80cap Jan 7 2019, 08:32 AM

Anyone have a trick on how to keep the gaskets in place while trying to bolt up the headers? I have tried exhaust sealant with out much luck.
Thanks Brian

Posted by: ChrisFoley Jan 7 2019, 08:40 AM

A couple dabs of grease ought to do the trick

Posted by: rfinegan Jan 7 2019, 09:20 AM

I use a drop of crazy glue to hold it up while I bolt on each header finger tight... burns off when hot...I have always been able to get them off again with a pick when needed


works fo me

Posted by: mepstein Jan 7 2019, 09:38 AM

I had to figure out a way to do it on my 6 conversion when I was installing Ben's heat exchangers. The heater box blocks access to the heads and the gasket falls out. Superglue worked great.

Posted by: 80cap Jan 7 2019, 11:01 AM

Thanks
Ill try the super glue trick.
Brian

Posted by: yeahmag Jan 7 2019, 01:15 PM

I alway anneal them too before putting them on.

Posted by: 80cap Jan 7 2019, 05:15 PM

I did anneal them and used super glue! The super glue was the bomb!
Brian

Posted by: pilothyer Jan 7 2019, 05:47 PM

Speaking of the anneal step, what is the proper and best known way to do this ? I have heard so many different ways I am a bit confused

Posted by: yeahmag Jan 7 2019, 05:50 PM

Cherry red, let cool slowly, don't dunk in water.

Posted by: pilothyer Jan 7 2019, 06:10 PM

Thanks Aaron

Posted by: Rand Jan 7 2019, 06:47 PM

I'm in the grease camp. One tiny dab will instantly hold it in place, no waiting for anything to set up, just stick in in and bolt it up. I get the idea of annealing, but I'm still not convinced it's necessary. They are going to get hot as soon as you run it, so just do an extra torque on the exhaust nuts after it's been through a heat cycle. You should do that anyway. Everyone has $.02.

Posted by: BeatNavy Jan 7 2019, 07:11 PM

I was pretty sure you DID dunk copper in water to complete the annealing process. At least that's what I've read (and done). When properly annealed, dropping the gaskets on the ground will give a dull "clunk" sound rather than a ringing sound.

Posted by: Rand Jan 7 2019, 08:01 PM

No! Quenching hot metal in cold water hardens it. Do NOT do that if you want to anneal copper to conform as it gets bolted up. (While copper, silver, and brass CAN be quenched during annealing, it's not needed, so better just use quenching for hardening and keep it simple.)

The whole point of annealing is to make it as soft and pliable as possible. Let it cool slowly.
Otherwise you'd be better off to just bolt it up without any treatment, as hardening it is only complicating it. If you aren't sure, just bolt it up and retorque after a heat cycle. It's really not necessary to treat them.

A bigger problem is when people don't realize there's still an old one stuck up in there and you need to use a pick/hook tool to get it out.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 7 2019, 08:08 PM

Grease.
Is there any mention of anealing in a factory manual....VW or Porsche ?

Posted by: Rand Jan 7 2019, 08:43 PM

Yup, grease is just a straight up trick that comes natural to mechanic types getting s*** done. A little dab will do you. Sounds like a 70s commercial for hair product. Hmm, Brylcreem might work too!

I don't know where the whole annealing thing came to be, but it's just not necessary. Good call... if it was it would be in the manuals of every air cooled engine.

Posted by: rjames Jan 7 2019, 11:24 PM

Probably came from a successful attempt to seal uneven surfacess. It won’t hurt to do it and it may help.

Posted by: Front yard mechanic Jan 8 2019, 07:26 AM

High tack adhesive

Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 8 2019, 09:26 AM

Annealing is only necessary for reusing used gaskets, not needed for new.

Posted by: worn Jan 8 2019, 12:52 PM

[/quote]
No! Quenching hot metal in cold water hardens it. Do NOT do that if you want to anneal copper to conform as it gets bolted up. (While copper, silver, and brass CAN be quenched during annealing, it's not needed, so better just use quenching for hardening and keep it simple.)

The whole point of annealing is to make it as soft and pliable as possible. Let it cool slowly.
[/quote]
Copper and silver can be annealed by quenching in water after heating to a red glow. Air cooling will also work for copper. Steel will be hardened by rapid quenching in oil or water or air blast. But the non-ferrous metals are different. The new gaskets come already soft. There are some hardening techniques for metals such as copper silver and gold that involve very slow cooling.

Posted by: 914_teener Jan 8 2019, 02:30 PM

Ok.

To the OP.

I've used high temp copper slicone to install them with great sucess. You can get it at your FLAPS.

I'ts also really a moot point if you don't check the HE"s sealing plane. Make sure they are flat and in the same plane. Plenty of threads here which you can search here out about it.

Pretty sure about this one:

Copper can be either work hardened or quench hardened. Both. Just depends on the level of hardness that is required.

I am almost certain that the copper stock used and method to manufacture ....stamping...the copper sheet would need to be at least 1/2 hard. So it would be my quess and it would stand to reason that they are still half hard if you bought them new.

I think the reasoning on annealing them....and again....if your HE"s aren't perfect...the thought is that annealing them will make them softer and more ductile so that they would seal better.

I've trued up my HE"s and used the copper silly cone and have never had a leak in 4 years and never gave a rap about annealing them.

My .02 FWIW.....and my Krusty response.