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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Building a 914 track car...
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 20 2005, 05:20 PM
Hey Gang,
Building our new car is an exercise in patience. I purchased the new race car September 2nd, 2004. We are currently on day 292 of the build. The latest Estimated Completion Date is November 1. That's 425 days, and that's paying professionals to build it.
If I count the extra 2 months I had in-between blowing our motor on the old car, we will be down, out of our 914 for over 16 months. And again, this is paying for the car to be worked on, not touching it ourselves.
Help make me feel better. Anyone pay a shop to build a car that's taken longer?
Bill P.
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 20 2005, 05:26 PM
Here's what $31K in cash will get ya..... 
Bill P.
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Posted by: Randal Jun 20 2005, 05:27 PM
| QUOTE |
| Anyone pay a shop to build a car that's taken longer? |
No fair.... we need to hire goon squads to make these guys work faster!!
Posted by: TimT Jun 20 2005, 05:35 PM
Isnt Jerry woods building your car?
FWIW im on the fourth year of rebuilding my 911.. I am however doing everything myself
Posted by: trekkor Jun 20 2005, 05:39 PM
Hang in there, Bill. We're all watchin' the grass grow with ya' 
KT
Posted by: seanery Jun 20 2005, 05:51 PM
bluecar started as a project Nov 25, 1999....not done and haven't driven it since 
Posted by: Jeroen Jun 20 2005, 05:51 PM
Hey... it could be worse...
This summer, I'll hit the 6 year mark and I'm no where near where you are 
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 20 2005, 05:58 PM
Allright....I'm feeling better already!
Tim,
B had the car from Sep 2 until March 1. JWE has taken over the car build since then. Lots of plumbing, and thinking and test fitting of the power steering....
But it is only scheduled on the rack for work a few days a month. I don't agree with that. I want dedicated time to make tracks on this thing. The rate is all the same. It seems like a solid week would finish the design and allow ordering the final parts needed.
I will have my V8 conversion finished well before my racecar, and my 72 year old dad and my 16 year old son are my shop mechanics.
Rant over.....I do realize that I'm paying for well planned engineering of a race car. I want it safe and fast and reliable if possible. But I just wish more progress could be made. It seems odd that it can't go a tad quicker.
Bill P.
Posted by: lapuwali Jun 20 2005, 05:58 PM
Hey, if anything, this thread is making ME feel better. My 914 was only motionless for 2 months before I moved it inside, where it's been motionless for two weeks, and will remain motionless for at least another month before I'll have time to even touch it. 
Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 20 2005, 06:04 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 20 2005, 03:20 PM) |
| Help make me feel better. Anyone pay a shop to build a car that's taken longer? |
Can't beat 12 mo's but my V8 car was at Henry's Hot Rod's in SJ for 5 mos. Every week I called and he said "we're getting to it".
Meanwhile rods needing work came and went through that shop while mine sat. To top it off, the shifter was worse than when I brought it there and it still didn't cool properly which was their primary job. 
Hope your "patience" is rewarded...
Posted by: Steve_7x Jun 20 2005, 06:15 PM
Bill,
How recent is that Pic?
How far are you on your project plan... sorry getting into PMP space - lol
While I had to wait about a year to get all the body work fitted and painted. VERY Frustrating! The upside is when every one oohs and ahh's and they get major envy for the level of work and effort that went into the car.
Steve
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 20 2005, 06:37 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 20 2005, 04:26 PM) |
| Here's what $31K in cash will get ya..... |
well, that picture doesn't quite do the car justice ...
i know the tub first hand, a lot of work has already gone into it, the front shock mounts alone took quite a bit of building time.
it will be a *very* nice car when done!
i do, however, understand your frustration. i too have had the feeling in the past that there must be something wrong with *my* money, because a shop did not seem to apprechiate it much ...
i only dumped $5.5k in cash with said shop, not $31k, but still, makes you wonder ...
Andy
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 20 2005, 06:51 PM
Hi Steve,
That pic is from April. The exterior doesn't look much different...but several decisions have been made on the car relative to parts and construction.
1. Fox Racing Shocks with the adjustable spindles are going on front and back. Includes coilovers up front.
2. Smart racing ARB up front.
3. Tarret prototype ARB on back.
4. Woodward power steering rack with remote pump.
5. Spraybars and remote oil cooler for my 915 WEVO transaxle with thermostat.
6. ERP 935 Front arms. (Makes fitting the power steering much easier).
7. Hydraulic clutch.
Just waiting for the work to be done......
Bill P.
Posted by: Howard Jun 20 2005, 07:05 PM
I'm probably gonna hate myself in the morning, but who's doing the work?
Posted by: airsix Jun 20 2005, 07:14 PM
If I hand over that much money for this kind of project I want the money held in escrow until the job is done. I've seen too many contractors loose focus once paid. Escrow would guarantee they get paid (good for them) and would guarantee the work got done in a timely manner (good for you).
-Ben M.
Posted by: Rob Ways Jun 20 2005, 07:31 PM
Bill,
Sorry to hear your race car is moving like a govt project...... At least you have plenty of time to dream.....
I've been waiting 20 years to restore my Dad's car to perfection... the last time I had work done to it was 7 years ago when it was getting a 1/10 th of another car welded into it. It was supposed to be ready for the drive away car for our wedding. Only missed the date by 3 months! To make it worse, we had to borrow my Dad in law's Vette. It was nice laying 20 feet of rubber in the Silver Creek parking lot though, and seeing my Dad in law's grin fade in the rearview mirror.... priceless.
I've got to go to school now. Take care!
PS - wanna help me pull my motor this August?
Posted by: spare time toys Jun 20 2005, 07:36 PM
Im coming up on having mine "in work" for a year now. We kind of think of it as an ever changing on going bank draining project 
Posted by: drew365 Jun 20 2005, 07:40 PM
Here's my attempt to ease your pain. I have a '69 Ferrari. I took the engine out myself because it was tired and smoking, and brought it to a friend (my first mistake). He's a nationally known Ferrari engine expert and I knew he'd do a good job. What I didn't know is it would be a rainy day project. After two years and much prodding he finished the engine. I brought him the car to reinstall it, that's been nearly another year and it's still not complete. So it's been nearly 3 years and about $35k, ( I haven't actually added all the receipts up because I don't want to know it's more than that), and I still don't have a car to drive. Luckily I have the teener to keep me occupied.
Posted by: Randal Jun 20 2005, 07:41 PM
We need to get Bill on "Overhauling"
Posted by: Thorshammer Jun 20 2005, 07:47 PM
Ben,
Don't take this wrong, but the first time you mentioned ESCROW in my shop, you would be finding someone else to build your pile, Even if I was the slowest guy available.
Some of you forget, building racecars is not something many people are good at. As for this build, I would have never put in power steering???? If the front geometry is right, the car will only take a light touch, but you did say you Father was helping you, will he also be driving???. As for the fox front struts, the shaft diameter is too small and they will flex during cornering loads. don't ask me how I know. Unless they have changed the design lately. Ohlins are available from Kanna Motorsports in NC. They are superior to what you are planning.
In your posts, you mentioned some decisions have been made? What do you mean, made? The build wasn't determined prior to starting? This is very odd to me. When I have built cars in the past, I have always ascertained what, where, when and how, and presented the options and the cost to perform those options. Many times the customer makes mid-build changes, which can and usually delays the build. This happened to me on a ChroMoly GP chassis I had built for a guy, when I received it, the chassis builder changed enough components, that the subassemblies I had did not work as a package. As for your chassis at this particular raceshop, I am aware of them and they have an excellent history as I am aware, but primarily with 911's. Maybe this project would have better been left to a shop or person that specialized in 914's and left the engine build to JWE, which is what I am familiar with them providing tremendous work.
As for this project, either fish or cut bait. Maybe a "sit down" with the project manager/owner is in order. Maybe a final bill and a trailer to another shop is as well. Beware of the second. Tuners/builders have a tendency to want to redo certain work because it is not to their liking, and it can be more costly and time consuming than your current situation. Either way, it is not something that is good. But I tell you what, Book a flight to Mid Ohio and come crew and watch your 914 guys carry the 914 club flag. We would love to have you!
Erik Madsen
Posted by: J P Stein Jun 20 2005, 08:32 PM
One advantage to being a CSOB is setting your own schedule.
Over the years I've continually "improved" my car.....It's a better car than I am a driver, so I have no complaints about the builder (other than he's a bit slow). If I had some, I'll talk to the guy in the mirror.
This year was the only time that it wasn't ready to go when the season started.....I wuz learning to do paint.....auuggh.
It "sounds" like your car is being treated as a spare time build.
(shop queen). There is no reason a build should take as long as it has......unless parts are NLA or backlogged....which case a switch should be made to something that is available.
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 20 2005, 08:54 PM
Thanks for the inputs....and for listening...it makes me feel better.
Those in the bay area know more about the car and what I had planned for the build....and what I want it to be.
The car was specified at the start. Basically turn key. As we have gotten into it, pieces are missing, can't be found, aren't quite up to my standards, etc. So I've changed the specs.
Power steering has been in there from day one. Two reasons, my wife Doris co-drives the car and there is a difference in effort from power steering to even a light steering manual 914, especially in autocross. Second reason, I want PS to be different. I have a dream 914 in my mind, I have the funds, it's my lifelong toy...so what the hell! Not very good on the pocketbook, but it's still fun!
JWE is a 911 shop. They don't get many 914's. But they turn out AWESOME race cars. I've talked to several folks who like and dislike them for various reasons and all of them say they build safe, fast cars. And they are only 2 blocks from my house. With my wife driving as well on the track and us getting faster and faster as drivers, I want a safe, well designed car for us to play with for the next several years.
I do wish they would put more priority on it. Jerry Woods himself is handling the design of the car, basically because he thinks its a fun project and he wants to try to build a nice 914 (He hasn't done one in several years). The problem is that he is involved with all of their national stuff and with all the high buck cars (believe me, my car is peanuts compared to some of the other projects going on!)....so I can see how it all goes.
But I have spoken with JWE again to get this thing moving. If I had to do it over again, I don't know if I would....but maybe. But I do believe the build could move faster. As the car is assembled, there are several problems surfacing. Oil cooler locations don't match body work. Reinforcing of the car needs to be re-engineered to bring it up to current safety regulations etc....
I don't hold this against anyone, it is a ground up build...but I also don't believe in no work for 2 to 4 weeks then a few days and then another 2 to 4 weeks.
Frustrating is the word.....
I think I need a 
Bill P.
Posted by: xsboost90 Jun 20 2005, 09:11 PM
im no race car builder but i feel your pain in the wait for the build of a car. Ive taken on a few builds for other people, this last one w/ stipulations that my car would be running first. Well my progress, fast as it was, took a few months longer than i hoped, and i have just now started on the widebody 924 gtr im building for someone. Ive had a couple of cars sitting in the driveway for over a year waiting for other projects to be finished, only to be done just in time for another project to come in.
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Posted by: grantsfo Jun 20 2005, 10:02 PM
My favorite fast race car build was this one:
http://www.ottosvenice.com/photos/burn/index.html
From this
To this in a matter of weeks:
I wouldnt have your pateince, but thats why I'm driving a 1.8 with crappy looking fiberglass etc. I will be building a 2270 cc race enigine, cage and a few more tweaks over winter and will be ready to go as the season starts next year.
Posted by: ppickerell Jun 20 2005, 10:04 PM
Bill,
DON'T GET ME STARTED.
Patrick 
Posted by: McMark Jun 20 2005, 11:27 PM
It's amazing how often the same story comes up. People drop off their projects and a load of cash (deposit) and then a few years later pull them back with very little work done. We have 3 such projects like that in the shop now, people got tired of waiting and brought their stuff to us. Our longest project was 8 months, and that was WAY too long.
I hope you get one hell of a race car, Bill. We know you've paid for it in more ways than one. Hang in there.
Posted by: brant Jun 22 2005, 09:52 PM
Bill,
hang in there..
I agree with your grass growing term, but it will all be worth it in the end!!!!!
brant
Posted by: GTeener Jun 23 2005, 12:50 PM
| QUOTE (ppickerell @ Jun 20 2005, 08:04 PM) |
| Bill, DON'T GET ME STARTED. Patrick |
Or me!
You think I'd have learned from the first project
Vent away though! That's what we're here for
Posted by: trekkor Jun 23 2005, 11:17 PM
This is why I do all my own work.
Waiting for the parts to arrive is bad enough.
KT
Posted by: Mueller Jun 23 2005, 11:31 PM
| QUOTE (trekkor @ Jun 23 2005, 10:17 PM) |
| Waiting for the parts to arrive is bad enough. KT |
I bought a bunch of pretty fuel related parts today from Summit, chances of getting them on Friday is pretty slim, no one to blame but myself
Posted by: grantsfo Jun 24 2005, 12:21 AM
| QUOTE (Mueller @ Jun 23 2005, 09:31 PM) | ||
I bought a bunch of pretty fuel related parts today from Summit, chances of getting them on Friday is pretty slim, no one to blame but myself |
Summit is awesome at getting stuff out quick. Two orders I had placed in the afternoon were delivered the next day from their Reno warehouse to my house in Bonny Doon via FedEx ground. They are one of my favorite autopart suppliers.
Posted by: anthony Jun 24 2005, 09:35 AM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 20 2005, 04:20 PM) |
| If I count the extra 2 months I had in-between blowing our motor on the old car, we will be down, out of our 914 for over 16 months. |
It seems like the biggest issue here is the downtime. Why not go to autocrosses and DEs with J-Lo or some other temporary car? I have an absolute blast autocrossing my stock SC and 914. I'm not competing for TTOD but I'm having lots of fun.
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