Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Clutch issue or something more?
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 10 2019, 05:17 PM
Experiencing some issues when shifting gears. I’m finding that even with the clutch pedal pressed the entire way to the floor I’m grinding a bit when shifting. I did a bit of research and decided to adjust the tensioner on the back cable assembly.
First I tried tightening the nut thinking this would help the clutch to engage sooner but in fact the issue appeared worse after I tightened it. I then adjusted the nut back to where I started and tried loosening it but that didn’t help either. Anyone care to take a stab at what the issue might be? New cable assembly maybe? Pressure plate?
Thanks everyone!!
Posted by: 914Sixer Feb 10 2019, 05:37 PM
Clutch cable tube maybe broken. Check at firewall first. Next check inspection plate inside between seats at the front of the firewall.
Posted by: 914Toy Feb 10 2019, 05:39 PM
Experiencing some issues when shifting gears. I’m finding that even with the clutch pedal pressed the entire way to the floor I’m grinding a bit when shifting. I did a bit of research and decided to adjust the tensioner on the back cable assembly.
First I tried tightening the nut thinking this would help the clutch to engage sooner but in fact the issue appeared worse after I tightened it. I then adjusted the nut back to where I started and tried loosening it but that didn’t help either. Anyone care to take a stab at what the issue might be? New cable assembly maybe? Pressure plate?
Thanks everyone!!
This is typical experience of a rusting firewall where the clutch cable exits into the engine compartment, which fails to hold the clutch cable outer sheath in place, which prevents the clutch cable from pulling a full peddle stroke - thus, not fully disengaging the clutch. It is easy to inspect once you can get under the car and check it out while someone pushes the clutch peddle. Lots of advice here for a good fix.
Posted by: mark04usa Feb 10 2019, 05:42 PM
Check clutch pedal freeplay, and adjust at the cable end at trans as you have seen. Should have 1/2" to 3/4" free play at the pedal-including distance of pedal lifted to stop. Also check for common problem of clutch cable tube welds breaking, as this can cause pproblem you describe. Good info on this here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=28313&hl=
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 11 2019, 02:49 PM
Struggling with this one. The clutch cable tube come from the center tunnel to the rear appears to be okay but of course I'm not sure how to inspect the inside of the center tunnel to know if it's getting a full pedal. Any other insight is good.
Posted by: 914Sixer Feb 11 2019, 02:54 PM
Two inspection plates on the center tunnel. Front is under the carpet by the pedal assembly. 2nd under the center cushion or tray. Take rear cover off and watch tube as someone pushes in the clutch. You will probably see tube moving when depressed.
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 11 2019, 04:46 PM
like mark said. Maybe remove the shifter from the yoke on the front rod preserving the current setting. Take the seats out first so you have room to work.
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 01:05 AM
Two inspection plates on the center tunnel. Front is under the carpet by the pedal assembly. 2nd under the center cushion or tray. Take rear cover off and watch tube as someone pushes in the clutch. You will probably see tube moving when depressed.
I was able to get a look after removing the seats and center console and peeling back the carpet. Front inspection area by the pedal assembly seems good. But yes the tube is moving further back but only slightly under the area near the shift yoke when the clutch is pushed.
Appears there was some fiberglass work under the car due to rust I assume so I’m not able to get a very good look at how/if the tube is mounted proper without cutting in that area. So before I get to cutting I’m curious if this could even remotely be related to transmission fluid level being low or something else?
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 01:35 PM
Two inspection plates on the center tunnel. Front is under the carpet by the pedal assembly. 2nd under the center cushion or tray. Take rear cover off and watch tube as someone pushes in the clutch. You will probably see tube moving when depressed.
I was able to get a look after removing the seats and center console and peeling back the carpet. Front inspection area by the pedal assembly seems good. But yes the tube is moving further back but only slightly under the area near the shift yoke when the clutch is pushed.
Appears there was some fiberglass work under the car due to rust I assume so I’m not able to get a very good look at how/if the tube is mounted proper without cutting in that area. So before I get to cutting I’m curious if this could even remotely be related to transmission fluid level being low or something else?
Okay so I cut the center tunnel behind the cross brace and yep the bracket is broke. Shouldn’t be a problem welding this to the floor. Makes me nervous using the cutting tool with all the sparks near that gas line though. It looks awful at the firewall as well but that area certainly looks harder to access. While I’m hopeful this fixes the gear grinding issues I’m not entirely convinced this is the fix because there is still minimal flex on the tube when the clutch is pressed. Gonna weld it up and give it a go. Thanks everyone for your input.
Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 12 2019, 01:57 PM
like Rohdy said..you need to look there....forward of the shifter hole,,,it may not move front to back , but it maybe trying to straighten itself out , when the front bracket is broken
Attached image(s)
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 12 2019, 02:09 PM
Thanks for clairifying Jeff. Spot on the mark.
Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 12 2019, 02:28 PM
also shifter in neutral, hold it over to the right, push in the clutch,,you might feel the tube come in contact with the linkage.. mine was that bad
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 05:46 PM
Took a pic of the front of the tunnel. Clutch tube laying on bottom? If so this bugger is broke in all 3 spots.
[attachmentid=685723]
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 12 2019, 05:46 PM
Is this a 1st/R thing or all gears?
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 06:23 PM
like Rohdy said..you need to look there....forward of the shifter hole,,,it may not move front to back , but it maybe trying to straighten itself out , when the front bracket is broken
This is the front of the tunnel. Is the clutch tube mounted to the bottom there or is it broken?
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 12 2019, 06:46 PM
Looks broke to me
Posted by: bbrock Feb 12 2019, 08:26 PM
Looks broke to me
It's broken, but at least the mystery is solved.
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 08:32 PM
Looks broke to me
It's broken, but at least the mystery is solved.Yes indeed all 3 spots. Mystery solved. Time to fire up the shop lights and get this thing healed.
Thanks everyone!!
Posted by: mark04usa Feb 12 2019, 08:44 PM
Repairing this will indeed improve clutch action and shifting. You'll be a happy 914er with this clutch cable tube fault upfixed. 
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 12 2019, 08:57 PM
Repairing this will indeed improve clutch action and shifting. You'll be a happy 914er with this clutch cable tube fault upfixed.
Stoked!! Curious if it makes most sense to weld this to the bottom or side panel for best results. Thoughts?
Posted by: jcd914 Feb 13 2019, 02:01 AM
Originally the bracket was welded to the sidewall and I think the bracket is brazed to the tube.
You should be able see where the bracket had been attached to sidewall near the bracket for the accelerator cable tube.
Someone here described drilling holes through the tunnel sidewall where the bracket would sit and holding the bracket and tube in place and then plug welding the bracket through the holes from outside the tunnel. It is not easy to weld inside the tunnel and you have to take in to account the (probably plastic) fuel line in the tunnel. Welding and fuel don't mix real well.
Jim
Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 13 2019, 05:25 AM
Attached image(s)
Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 13 2019, 06:05 AM
pull the cable out so you dont melt the plastic casing
Attached image(s)
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 13 2019, 02:51 PM
Repairing this will indeed improve clutch action and shifting. You'll be a happy 914er with this clutch cable tube fault upfixed.
Well I did the fix last night but unfortunately it didn’t cure the issue with grinding. Back to the drawing board.
Posted by: cuddy_k Feb 13 2019, 05:17 PM
Now that the tube is secure, try tightening the clutch cable. If that doesn’t work, the fork may not have enough travel to disengage the transmission. Have someone push the clutch pedal down while you look under the car. If the fork hits the case, you’ll need to separate the transmission and put a washer under the ball bolt to give you more travel...
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 13 2019, 05:21 PM
How many gears grind while sitting?
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 13 2019, 09:56 PM
How many gears grind while sitting?
I’ll double check in the morning but mostly reverse, 1st, 2nd
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 13 2019, 10:01 PM
Now that the tube is secure, try tightening the clutch cable. If that doesn’t work, the fork may not have enough travel to disengage the transmission. Have someone push the clutch pedal down while you look under the car. If the fork hits the case, you’ll need to separate the transmission and put a washer under the ball bolt to give you more travel...
Thank you! I’m not exactly sure what the fork is. Is this the fork coming from the transmission that attaches to the clutch linkage cable? Do you have a visual for this?
Also I’m a little unclear regarding separating the transmission if necessary.
Thanks!!
Posted by: cuddy_k Feb 13 2019, 11:15 PM
Yep. The clutch release fork that attaches to the trunion / cable. #4 in the diagram below. Let's hope all that's needed is tightening the cable. If the fork is hitting the case and you still get grinding, we'll help you cross that bridge....
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 13 2019, 11:32 PM
Yep. The clutch release fork that attaches to the clevis / cable. #4 in the diagram below. Let's hope all that's needed is tightening the cable. If the fork is hitting the case and you still get grinding, we'll help you cross that bridge....
Okay great thank you. I’ll check in the morning and report back. There’s already a large spacer that was added at the tensioner cable by the previous owner and I think I may be out of thread to go any tighter but I’ll check again.
Posted by: cuddy_k Feb 14 2019, 12:05 AM
There’s also some adjustment possible at the pedal end. Question...is the grinding something new? Did it shift smoothly before?
Posted by: MiniStevieG Feb 14 2019, 12:45 AM
There’s also some adjustment possible at the pedal end. Question...is the grinding something new? Did it shift smoothly before?
That’s right I remember seeing that clevis on the front when I was securing the clutch tube. I’m going to loosen the back and tighten the front to get some more thread to work with. I’ve only owned the car for a couple weeks now and yes it’s been grinding since I bought it. If I keep the clutch pressed in for a few seconds and shift gently the grind is minimal but still there of course. It just seems like the clutch arm isn’t making its full move to disengage and allow a proper shift. But hey I’m a newbie here. Thanks!!
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 14 2019, 07:55 AM
I think you might have excessive wear with the detent plate in the shifter assem and possibly the shift lever. The pedal end of the cable protrusion is .4" (10mm). Noted on P.71 of your Haynes.
The exploded parts diagram for the shift linkage is on P.89. The detention plate is part #14.
Posted by: tejon007 Feb 14 2019, 08:39 AM
I'd take a look at item #5 in post 29...that plastic piece eventually wears out and you don't get full travel no matter how much you adjust the cable.
You can assess by seeing if the clutch fork hits the transmission case when you depress the clutch pedal, and there maybe wear marks where it contacts the case.
I made a special allen wrench to remove the fork without removing the transmission...but, if this is the problem, you're probably looking at pulling the engine and transmission for a $5 piece of plastic...sorry, if that's the case.
Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 14 2019, 08:52 AM
And when you're in there for #5 you replace #6 as well. Every component from the shifter to the throwout bearing needs to be in top shape. Stop and go 'maybe this is the solution' is the long, frustrating road.
Posted by: 76-914 Feb 14 2019, 09:27 AM
The most important pitfall to avoid is getting slag inside the tube. If you choose to weld on the tube itself you can insert a same size drill bit inside the tube when welding to prevent this. You can clamp it with a "U" or "J" bolt to the side or bottom of the tunnel. You can also wrap a strap/clamp around the tube then weld the strap/clamp to the tunnel wall but not weld the strap to the tube if your concerned about slag.
Posted by: SteelerMike77 Mar 10 2019, 09:16 AM
Is this a 1st/R thing or all gears?
Hello, I AM having a shifting problem with ONLY 1ST & Reverse... they grind sometimes, more reverse... any suggestions?
Also, I have a little seepage of gear oil coming out where the shift linkage goes into the gear box...ant thought?
Thanks
Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 10 2019, 11:46 AM
Is this a 1st/R thing or all gears?
Hello, I AM having a shifting problem with ONLY 1ST & Reverse... they grind sometimes, more reverse... any suggestions?
Also, I have a little seepage of gear oil coming out where the shift linkage goes into the gear box...ant thought?
Thanks
You’ll get more answers if you start a new thread.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)