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Posted by: rjames Apr 1 2019, 01:18 PM

What size are these things? I just need four of them so I don't want to order a full set (which is how they are being sold by the various 914 vendors).

Posted by: 914_7T3 Apr 1 2019, 01:29 PM

I have a buch of extra. Just PM me with an address and I can pop them in the mail!

Posted by: rjames Apr 1 2019, 02:24 PM

You rock! Thank you!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 1 2019, 03:24 PM

M6 x about 15mm. I replaced mine with socket-head screws (e.g., Allen screws) because the only screwdriver I found that fits the stock screws correctly is about two feet long and is hard to get to a lot of screws unless the engine is out of the car.

Don't forget that one of the screws near the centerline of the case is actually an M8 one.

--DD

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Apr 1 2019, 03:36 PM

6x12 if you were close you could come by and have some!!!

Posted by: Steve Apr 1 2019, 04:52 PM

You can get them cheap by the bag at any VW/Empi shop.
Or https://www.amazon.com/SHROUD-SCREW-dune-buggy-baja/dp/B003LJ12HM/ref=sr_1_12?keywords=empi+vw+bug+screws&qid=1554159290&s=gateway&sr=8-12

Posted by: Amphicar770 Apr 2 2019, 11:58 AM

+1 on stainless socket head screws. 40 years from now someone will thank you.

Posted by: bbrock Apr 2 2019, 12:06 PM

a good chunk of my head rebuild bill was getting the @#$% busted off screws out.

Posted by: pete000 Apr 2 2019, 12:22 PM

Commonly refereed to as "Cheese Heads"

Posted by: krazykonrad Apr 2 2019, 01:21 PM

I understand that the M numbers are a size measurement, but how do you measure? I have a pile of engine tin screws that I lumped all together thinking they were the same size.

Thanks!
Konrad

Posted by: rjames Apr 2 2019, 02:08 PM

Any concerns about dissimilar metals?

Posted by: porschetub Apr 3 2019, 01:34 PM

Yes I bought those,enough in the bag to replace some of the chewed out ones also,I agree that capscrews are better if you aren't worried about "original"look.
These things are a total PITA when chewed up and overtightened.

Posted by: Nacho Apr 3 2019, 04:41 PM

McMaster-Carr you can get a bag of 100 for like $9.00

Posted by: 56kabrio Apr 3 2019, 05:53 PM

Konrad

The “M” number is the nominal diameter of the bolt in millimeters. This is taken from the DIN (Deutsches Industrie fuer Normung). When you see a metric bolt listed as M6 X 12 for instance, it means that the diameter is 6 mm and it is 12 mm in length. Hope this helps.

Mack Griffith

Posted by: krazykonrad Apr 3 2019, 09:53 PM

Thanks! Mystery solved. Been trying to figure out that one for forever

Konrad

Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 4 2019, 02:42 AM

Not with stainless. The stock ones are much worse. That's why we sell the stainless.

https://900designs-container.zoeysite.com/engine-tin-screw-set-of-50-stainless-w-washer-allen-head

Also will not strip out like stock, but they are not stock, and do cost more.




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Posted by: 914werke Apr 4 2019, 08:20 AM

Robert drop by & grab a handful

Posted by: Literati914 Apr 4 2019, 08:30 AM

I'd been thinking for a long time about trying some stainless "cap head" screws (rounded head / allen socket), rather than the more squared off shoulder of the original cheese heads .. (if I can find them in M6x12). Just think they'd look better - but is there any reason those would be a bad idea?

Posted by: 914_7T3 Apr 4 2019, 01:01 PM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=4467 4 of each type are going out to you today!

Posted by: rjames Apr 4 2019, 07:30 PM

Super nice of you. Thank you and please let me know if I can ever return the favor somehow!

Posted by: bbrock Apr 4 2019, 08:08 PM

Well, the original steel fasteners are pretty bad. Hard to imagine it getting much worse. I'm a bit of a stickler for originality but refuse to put those back in. But out of curiosity, I googled galvanic corrosion of stainless and aluminum. It seems an SS fastener in an aluminum block will be no problem, but an aluminum fastener in an SS block would be a big problem.

Posted by: bdstone914 Apr 5 2019, 08:05 AM

Well, the original steel fasteners are pretty bad. Hard to imagine it getting much worse. I'm a bit of a stickler for originality but refuse to put those back in. But out of curiosity, I googled galvanic corrosion of stainless and aluminum. It seems an SS fastener in an aluminum block will be no problem, but an aluminum fastener in an SS block would be a big problem.


@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=3291

You can get SS cheese head screws. I still find them PITA to remove and install in tight places.
I am going to add blue Loctite to the ones I install in my engine. Wonder if anti seize will stop galvanic action or affect negatively the torque holding ability.
Bruce

Can you post that information about corrosion? Very interesting. Maybe the aluminum fastener is weaker?
Thinking about the SS screws at the bottom of the bad pad that go through an aluminum sleeve. They corrode badly.
Bruce


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Posted by: barefoot Apr 5 2019, 08:16 AM

Death to the cheesheads !!! I replaced every one of them with SS socket head screws.
MUCH easier to deal with.
Barefoot

Posted by: bbrock Apr 5 2019, 08:42 AM

Here's one of the sources and I found a couple others that said basically the same thing. https://www.bssa.org.uk/topics.php?article=89
It appears what is important is the ratio of cathode to anode. Since aluminum is the sacrificial anode in this pairing, a small aluminum fastener in a sea of receiving cathode will quickly corrode away to the point of failure. But in the reverse, the small amount of cathode in an SS fastener can't receive enough of the surrounding aluminum anode material to significantly damage it. I thought that was fastenating... see what I did there?

Interesting idea on the SS cheese heads. Might be a good option for the most visible and accessible screws. I wondered the same about locktite or anti seize.

Posted by: jd74914 Apr 5 2019, 08:56 AM

I used standard antisieze (copper base IIRC) as a barrier and haven't had any issues with corrosion or loosening. In fact I took some out after 15+ years of install the other day and they were still tight, but unthreaded easily.

Definitely a worthwhile change. I don't even want to think about how much time I spend drilling out the originals and retapping.

Posted by: euro911 Apr 7 2019, 10:19 AM

I used the S/S Allens (from 914 Rubber) on the 'BB's motor.




That reminds me, I need to add another set to my cart for 'HOWARD's motor

Posted by: worn Apr 7 2019, 05:14 PM

The only downside that I find is that you can not retrieve them with a magnet. In some applications the softness of the season fastener is an issue.

Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 7 2019, 07:01 PM

The screw are 316 stainless, so yes a magnet will not work. As far as softness does 316 has more nickel in it so it's not a soft alloy. More than adequate for sheet metal. The Allen head actually will take much more torque than a cheesehead screw.