Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: pploco Apr 5 2019, 03:47 PM

I figure its high time to start sharing my subaru conversion progress with y'all. I'm new to the 914 and have been silently lurking on the site gleaning as much knowledge as possible. I'm a few months into the conversion, and decided to gather up my pictures and start sharing.

Several years ago I shoe-horned a turbo subaru 2.0 into a 73 beetle

https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=119821

I had an ABSOLUTE BLAST flogging that poor little thing. But I quickly learned that the bug was not a very safe platform for a 300hp subaru engine. I could dust anything off the line and actually pull the front wheels off the ground. But it was a scary handful on the freeway. I ended up selling it and have missed that angry little blue bug ever since.

I've always loved the 914, and have watched from the fringes as they creep up and up in value. So when two basket cases popped up locally on craigslist, I decided it was time to jump back in and do a proper conversion

Lucky for me, I found these on a 2'fer one deal:

74:



73:




The PO had stuffed a Pontiac v6 in the 73. He totally scabbed the conversion together - especially the cooling. No radiator fan, square tubing for coolant lines - its ugly. Not surprising, he cooked the motor. Then let it sit outside and rust. The interior is in excellent shape, but the rockers, longs, hell hole, and door jams are pretty bad.

The 74 had been stripped and "prepped" for paint. His reality of "prepped" boarders on insanity. He was planning a LS conversion but didn't get any further than stripping it down and spraying it with john deere yellow

It basically came home in boxes. But, I picked them both up for $1500, then sold the 1.7 and trans from the 74 for $1K. Not a bad deal at all.

I'm planning to use the 74 as my base. It has some hell hole issues and a few rust spots, but the longs are in pretty good shape and the pan is mostly solid. I'll use the 73 for an interior parts car.

Now for a motor porn teaser - This is what I put together last weekend

Posted by: pploco Apr 5 2019, 03:49 PM

Project plans:

This is going to be an evolving post as the project progresses. I would describe myself as a weekend warrior with fake-sick-to-work in the garage once in a while tendencies. So my timeline is wide open as to when I'll likely have this wrapped up. I do have to hurry though. My 13 year old son has decided he loves to weld and fab and he is eyeing the '73 as his first car. If I'm going to have interior and various parts, I've got to move quickly. Since the driving age in Idaho is 15, I figure I've got less than 2 years to be at least driving this beast.

My goal is to have the motor and trans ready to mock in, then they'll go on a shelf for the fabbing and rust repair. I'll then prep and paint. Having done a few projects like this in the past - there is nothing worse than having to cut a freshly painted car to fit something for the conversion. I want paint and interior to be the last things I do.

Admittedly, I can be a bit scattered on these projects because of the way they have to share space on my priority list with family, work, and other important commitments. So I try to only tackle jobs I know I can finish in the time and budget that I have available - if that makes sense. So while there might appear to be madness to my approach, I promise there's a method to the madness.

My plans (as of May 2019)

Motor:
2008 EJ257 STI block bored +.5mm
Timesert head bolt anchors
2008 OEM STI crank with nitride coating
OEM STI rods with ARP rod bolts
King racing main and rod bearings
Manley forged and skirted pistons
ARP head studs
Heads - 2004 OEM with single AVCS
- new OEM valves and guides
Stock exhaust and uppipe
Turbo - Cobb 20g
ECU - 2004 STI stock with Cobb AP tuner
Harness - 2004 STI stock, custom by Jeff Robenolt @ AutoVentures LLC

Cooling
Toyota Celica GT radiator
Fozenboost Water/Air intercooler

Transmission
'04 WRX 5 speed

Body
Color:still undecided - narrowed down to porsche red, black, olympic blue
GT flares(?) still on the fence here. I love the GT flares on a black or dark blue, but not on red or light blue

Misc Conversion
Coldwater cradle and trans hanger
JDM STI clutch master
Celica GT or MR2 shifter
Zero Decibel bell hanger shift linkage
Subaru STI fuel assembly/pump
Heat and A/C

Posted by: pploco Apr 5 2019, 03:57 PM

More of the '74:

Posted by: pploco Apr 5 2019, 04:02 PM

I wanted to see what the PO's "fix" to the hell hole looked like. So I grabbed my wire wheel and started cleaning. Before long, bolt heads appeared - what the....



I should also mention that this was under about a 1/2 inch of what looked like roofing tar.

Posted by: pploco Apr 5 2019, 04:08 PM

Sorry folks... I have a whole slew of photos to share, but google isn't cooperating. Stay tuned...

Posted by: Retroracer Apr 5 2019, 04:40 PM

Welcome to the forum!! Looking forward to seeing the build develop.

Looks like the PO sold you the little-known early IKEA version of the 914; it arrived flat-packed, and you simply bolt it together.

Not really.

But seriously, that looks terrifying. You have some challenging body work ahead....!

- Tony

Posted by: tmessenger Apr 5 2019, 06:29 PM

Those FI parts in the front trunk may have some value, just saying we have a buy/sell forum.

Tim

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 5 2019, 06:39 PM

It took me forever to figure out the photo-thing here. But welcome and have fun.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 5 2019, 06:50 PM

Posted by: Freezin 914 Apr 5 2019, 07:25 PM

Posted by: 76-914 Apr 5 2019, 08:11 PM

Oh, Welcome to the Dark Side too!

Posted by: Maltese Falcon Apr 5 2019, 08:32 PM

Welcome

Posted by: burton73 Apr 6 2019, 09:56 AM

Thanks for taking us on your trip with you.

Bob B

Posted by: EdwardBlume Apr 7 2019, 06:04 AM

Looks like fun!

Posted by: strawman Apr 7 2019, 11:28 AM

I’m in Boise for a family thing this weekend, so I had a chance to meet Scott and see his project. This is going to be a great “sleeper” car, and Scott is a nice addition to the 914 community. Best of all, his young son is a car guy (he’s welding up a buggy!) and wants to eventually build the spare/parts 914 — so Scott is getting the next generation into our cars. Scott also has great knowledge of Subaru engines. Keep an eye on this build!!

Posted by: krazykonrad Apr 7 2019, 07:18 PM

This looks like its going to be a great build. Get in touch with @michiganmatt. He just did a killer build that is similar.

Konrad

Posted by: pploco Apr 8 2019, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(strawman @ Apr 7 2019, 11:28 AM)

Posted by: pploco Apr 8 2019, 09:14 AM

All right, lets kick this off properly. No 914 rustoration would be complete without a trip down to hell (hole). The PO waxed poetic on all of his extensive work to fix the hell hole. He said that he had "installed" patch panels and sealed them with rust inhibiting treatment. I think he mentioned POR15.

Once I got the car in my garage, I started cleaning things up and sorting through the parts, I noticed there was something a little off with the "patched" areas. After a little wire wheel action, I see this:



Then this:












Pictures don't do this custom work justice. This patch was a good inch thick with
what looked like fiber filler and tar.







Before I got too crazy with the cutting and welding, I decided to check the door gaps to make sure. Everything checked out. But I was worried that the PO had done similar repairs in other areas and covered them up with the lovely Walmart tractor yellow.

I went around the car and tested door jams, trunks, fenders, sail panels - all the nooks and crannys that might have other surprises waiting. I did find a nice bondo monument to middle school dropout bodywork in the rear trunk, and a few small cover ups on the sail panels, but overall this is a pretty solid car.

Oh, and if anyone is interested I have a set of slightly used hell hole patch panels that I'd sell for super cheap.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 8 2019, 09:20 AM

Actually, one of mine was similar with spray foam, copper sheet and tar.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: pploco Apr 8 2019, 09:39 AM

I started cutting back to find solid metal. Luckily, the long wasn't bad, and I probably cut more out of the inner fender well than I needed. There was definitely one annoying little corner in the firewall that was a booger to clean up.



It was nice to see that the inside of the long wasn't completely rotten. I probed with my chisel and body hammer and found a little spot at the bottom of the long.



But there was solid metal to work with. Sorry for the shady picture..



I was relieved to see some factory primer peeking through the sides and bottom. Once I vacuumed all the rust and flake out, it looked pretty good overall. I didn't get a good picture, but just in front of the firewall toward the front of the car is all factory primed metal. I'll have to open up the bottom and weld in a patch, but it should be minimal. My plan is to open it up, clean and scrape and then treat with phospho and some frame wax.

Posted by: pploco Apr 9 2019, 02:52 PM

I've got the hell hole fixed. I've removed the engine tray tin, and have been cleaning things up to prep and treat with zerorust, but wanted to wait until it warmed up a little. I decided to switch gears a little and focus on the motor and mockup.

I picked up a 2004 STI motor from an auction for 1200 bucks plus shipping. The description said it was part of a theft recovery and was missing the turbo. There wasn't a lot of detail, other than 104K miles on the clock and a receipt in the glove box that the timing belt had been changed at 90K miles. I knew it might end up being a box of rocks, but I figured that all the peripherals - manifolds, brackets, oil pan, etc would be worth what I paid. I decided to roll the dice and hope that the heads and internals weren't junk.

I used Uship to find a cheap carrier, and for 300 bucks UPS delivered the motor to my driveway. Pretty good deal if you ask me.



The motor didn't look too bad, but it smelled terrible. I can't really describe the stank, but it was bad. It smelled like water had mixed with oil and festered for several months. Damn! probably a blown head gasket. Oh well, I thought, I would at least use it for some mock up.



Ian (Coldwater) lives in Boise, and so I called him up and begged him to hook me up with a cradle. BTW, he said he's still making these - they just take longer because he's super busy these days.



About the same time, I picked up a '99 RS transmission. More on that later...




Mocking the motor up, I verified that I would need to cut some of the trunk to fit the 20G turbo, the clutch slave, and starter.

I wanted to brace the two rear towers, strengthen the corner that connects to the long, and have something to fasten the trans pitch stop to. I plan to go water/air IC and route the charge pipe similar to DBCooper's setup, over to the driver's side.






I think this turned out pretty good - even though I used a ghetto homemade metal brake. Basically pipe wrenches, a vice, a 2x4, and a piece of angle iron.


Oh yeah.... and some motor porn:

Posted by: pploco Apr 15 2019, 02:30 PM

I built the shortblock a couple of weeks back. I was in a bit of a hurry and got the heads torqued, cams installed, AVCS installed, and the valve covers on. As I was cleaning up my bench, I noticed a ARP washer sitting under a rag...

I panicked a little, threw a wrench, and practiced a few farm words. While building the block, I'd had a little scare when I was torquing one of the head studs when the timesert shifted a little and made a popping sound. I was sure I had just stripped my newly built block, so I pulled the head back off and checked everything. Once I realized what had happened and that it was a false alarm, I put everything back together using one of two spare headgaskets I had - but in my fit, I forgot to put one of the washers on.

So I spent some time taking the head back off, burning another head gasket, and installing the washer I forgot. While the head was back off, I took a picture for your viewing pleasure.



These heads were rebuilt by a local shop with new valves, guides and springs. I wish I had a before picture, because these things were a mess.

Got the head torqued down AGAIN, with the washer installed, and started installing the cams.



I hate doing things over because of my own stupidity.


On a brighter note, my weekend started with a box waiting for me on the doorstep





I also got a box from Rockauto that had a timing belt kit with all timing idler pulleys. Fun fact - if you're ever replacing a timing belt or head gaskets on a Subie, its always a good idea to check and possibly replace the idler pulleys. I've had one grenade on me and ruin an engine. I had another one that started going bad and it made the timing belt jump a cog - what a pain that was. You have to be careful on some of the kits that are offered - some are just Chinese garbage. The challenge is that the stealership charges a ridiculous price for each pulley - like $80 bucks each. The OEM timing belt alone is over $100. Truthfully, I don't use anything but the OEM timing belt.

I found a kit that I like from Contitech that comes with a timing belt and all the individual idler pulleys. When you look at the pulleys side by side, the bearings are the same as OEM. The Continental timing belt that comes in the kit is German made. The whole kit was only $121 bucks plus shipping. I can sell the Continental timing belt on NASIOC for $40.


Also a few Subaru motor building tips:

First - when installing cam seals, this is the best/cheapest tool out there. The proper Subaru tool is spendy - this baby costs 80 cents and has a perfect collar that prevents the seal from being driven too far.



Second - Subaru recommends using a gasket filler when assembling engines. There's a lot of debate here on what to use. Some guys use ultra grey RTV, or Hondabond as an alternative to the Subaru filler. I REALLY like and prefer the Subaru ThreeBond stuff



Its much easier to work with than the thick Hondabond, and I've yet to have a motor leak with it. It also cleans up easier - you know if you have to pull the head off cuz you forgot a washer. The only challenge with it, is that it can be kinda runny. You don't have to use a lot, but when you're working around the AVCS cap, there are some oil galleys that are right next to where you're supposed to seal. I use a small ziptie right after torquing the cap to push through the galley and twist around to clean out the filler. If you shine a flashlight from behind the cap toward the front, you can see if there is anything blocking the galley.



Lets just say I learned this trick at the school of hard knocks - a seized cam is no fun.

Third - There are two OEM water pumps for the Subaru WRX/STI turbos. At some point Subaru started manufacturing a cheaper water pump with a stamped impeller. Crawford has a few tech docs that show the differences in flow between the two pumps. Hands down, the cast impeller outperforms the stamped one. You can still buy OEM cast impeller pumps for about the same price as a stamped one. With the additional volume and coolant line lengths in these conversions, it makes sense to me to go for the cast version.



So, I got 2 cam seals, oil pan, oil cooler, tensioner, water pump, and one of the idlers installed. For some reason my gasket kit only had 2 cam seals, so I have to wait a few days for the others to show up.

Posted by: oldschool Apr 15 2019, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(pploco @ Apr 8 2019, 08:39 AM)

I started cutting back to find solid metal. Luckily, the long wasn't bad, and I probably cut more out of the inner fender well than I needed. There was definitely one annoying little corner in the firewall that was a booger to clean up.



It was nice to see that the inside of the long wasn't completely rotten. I probed with my chisel and body hammer and found a little spot at the bottom of the long.



But there was solid metal to work with. Sorry for the shady picture..



I was relieved to see some factory primer peeking through the sides and bottom. Once I vacuumed all the rust and flake out, it looked pretty good overall. I didn't get a good picture, but just in front of the firewall toward the front of the car is all factory primed metal. I'll have to open up the bottom and weld in a patch, but it should be minimal. My plan is to open it up, clean and scrape and then treat with phospho and some frame wax.

Posted by: pploco Apr 15 2019, 02:52 PM

Oh yeah, and some motor porn:

https://youtu.be/ZS4hDJLt5qU

Posted by: pploco Apr 15 2019, 03:19 PM

[/quote]
..wow I need to do that same job if you are using a chip board template please.
save and sent to me.
[/quote]

I'll check, but I think I tossed the template I made.

Posted by: oldschool Apr 16 2019, 01:12 PM

[quote name='pploco' date='Apr 15 2019, 02:19 PM' post='2705528']
[/quote]
..wow I need to do that same job if you are using a chip board template please.
save and sent to me.
[/quote]

I'll check, but I think I tossed the template I made.
[/quote]
No worries Thanks!

Posted by: whitetwinturbo May 3 2019, 02:51 PM

QUOTE(oldschool @ Apr 15 2019, 01:45 PM)

QUOTE(pploco @ Apr 8 2019, 08:39 AM)

I started cutting back to find solid metal. Luckily, the long wasn't bad, and I probably cut more out of the inner fender well than I needed. There was definitely one annoying little corner in the firewall that was a booger to clean up.



It was nice to see that the inside of the long wasn't completely rotten. I probed with my chisel and body hammer and found a little spot at the bottom of the long.



But there was solid metal to work with. Sorry for the shady picture..



I was relieved to see some factory primer peeking through the sides and bottom. Once I vacuumed all the rust and flake out, it looked pretty good overall. I didn't get a good picture, but just in front of the firewall toward the front of the car is all factory primed metal. I'll have to open up the bottom and weld in a patch, but it should be minimal. My plan is to open it up, clean and scrape and then treat with phospho and some frame wax.

..wow I need to do that same job if you are using a chip board template please.
save and sent to me.

Posted by: pploco May 8 2019, 04:45 PM

Sorry, not many updates, I've been in India for a few weeks with work. I got home on Saturday and was in a half asleep coma for a couple of days with the jet lag. Travel to Asia can really suck but it pays for these types of projects.

I did manage to get the timing belt, and the timing cover installed (twice) on my motor. In my jet lagged stupor, I got the timing covers on without putting the cam avcs caps on. So I had to pull it all back off and put the caps back on. Not a huge deal, but I'm glad I caught it.

I also pulled all the fuel lines, evap, and harness from the intake. I plan to strip the flaking paint off and repaint it.

I read through another thread and found that my coldwater cradle might put my suby trans a couple of inches too far forward. This creates too aggressive an angle for the CVs. Can anyone confirm this is accurate?

Posted by: pploco May 21 2019, 01:57 PM

Got a call from Jeff at Autoventures LLC that my harness was finished and ready to be shipped. I'm pretty stoked about this - mostly because I didn't have to do the harness myself. I shopped around and found Jeff to be the best deal. They were great to work with and I would highly recommend them.

https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=autoventures%20llc&epa=SEARCH_BOX

Posted by: mepstein May 21 2019, 02:03 PM

QUOTE(pploco @ May 21 2019, 03:57 PM)

Posted by: ConeDodger May 21 2019, 06:34 PM

Is this Renegade stuff?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: mepstein May 21 2019, 07:23 PM

QUOTE(ConeDodger @ May 21 2019, 08:34 PM)

Posted by: Andyrew May 22 2019, 09:08 AM

Posted by: pploco May 28 2019, 08:54 AM

The defiling continues:

I got quite a bit done on the car last week. I decided to paint the chipped intake and try to get it back to the original red. NHT makes a wrinkle paint that is supposed to be tough as nails. So I put some chemical strip on the intake and brushed off the old paint. I hit it with some self etch primer and 3 or 4 thick coats of this stuff. I also did the TGV butterfly valve delete mod and painted the TGVs in black wrinkle.






It turned out pretty good, but I couldn't live with the nasty A/C and pwr steering bracket. so I painted those two and the DBW throttle body. Then I put the crusty exhaust, alternator, A/C compressor, and crank pulley back on for mock up. I'm definitely going to replace the exhaust manifold and crank pulley.



I also got the turbo set temporarily, the motor is off the stand and sitting on the cradle for some mock up. Now its time to work the transmission over.

Posted by: pploco May 28 2019, 10:21 AM

I found another transmission that I couldn't pass up on. I had originally found a '99 impreza RS transmission to use, but after a bit of research realized that the push-type clutch, and the hydraulic conversion were a bit of a pain to get to work with the STI motor. So I picked up an '04 WRX tranmission with a broken center diff for cheap.



I pulled the nose cone off and disassembled the center diff. I expected to see it in bad shape, but it wasn't too bad. The little spacer on the spider gear had broken, but it hadn't done any major damage aside from locking the rear in. I guess I didn't realize that the WRX had a clutch pack in the center diff - it had definitely seen better days and went right in the trash.



So I thought I'd take a crack at making a center lock. I started following this http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=104513, but realized that there are some differences in this transmission so it threw me off a bit.

The write up says to slice this:



then weld the inside sleeve to the outside sleeve, and cut the flange off -





You end up with this:




Here's my question. Why would you cut the flange off as it rides on the bearing that goes here?:



It seems like you would want to keep the sleeve on so it continues to sit on the bearing. The other question I have is if you use a cut sleeve (or use the Bremar spline locking spool) how do you prevent it moving backwards off the shafts?

Wouldn't it be better for me to do something like this?



Or just pull the spider gears and clutch pack out and weld here:



It would prevent the locked spool from moving laterally or horizontally and working its way off the splines??

Posted by: pploco May 28 2019, 05:35 PM

I went back through each step and realized that you use the nut to keep it from backing out. I still think it needs to rest on the bearing to keep the shaft from moving up and down. Maybe I’m overthinking.

Posted by: pploco May 30 2019, 09:13 AM

In yer face Bremar!

I had a couple of free hours last night, so I decided to take a crack at making a FWD locking spool out of a fooked WRX center diff. It was pretty straightforward and I was able to pull the little coupler off the shaft to tack in place. The welds penetrated pretty deep, so it should stay together (I hope it does). I put it back on with a lock washer and bent the little nut keepers back once I tightened it down. Here's to hoping it will withstand 300+ HP.







I thought I'd put the trans on the cradle and temporarily bolt it to the motor while I find some aluminum to make a back plate. I still need a clutch, but I can start mocking things in now.



Oh the bad things I'm going to do to this drive train....

Posted by: pploco Jun 3 2019, 09:21 AM

I spent a few days in the garage this weekend on the conversion. At Chi-town's suggestion, I pulled the coupler back out and squared it off and rewelded; then put it back in with some locktite.





My son called me a chicken for not attempting a back plate. So I went salvaging and found a 12"X12"X1/2" plate for 20 bucks. After two sawzall blades, three cutoff wheels, and a skinned knuckle, I managed to get one that looked half decent. My son says its the perfect spot for a mighty mouse sticker - we'll see about that....



I got the transmission mounted, and bolted everything to the car. Then I laid on the garage floor for about an hour afterwards. Whew, that was a wrestling match.





And there's room to spare



I've still got to figure out some better motor mounts. The stock mounts let the cradle hang too far down. And with the stock STI mounts, I'm not going to really need the rubber Porsche mounts. My plan is to have something fabbed up with urethane - dunno, I'll cross that bridge later. For now, the motor and trans are set so I can start mocking up coolant and clutch lines, intercooler, and axles. This felt like a big milestone.

Posted by: pploco Jun 10 2019, 09:00 AM

I decided to take a shot at some DIY urethane motor mounts. The stock STI mounts keep the engine a few inches higher on the cradle so the oil pan doesn't hang down too low. I have plenty of clearance on the top of the motor.

I started by taking the cracked and brittle Porsche motor mounts and hit them with the torch to get the center bushing out. After a bit of cleanup and trimming:



Here's what I'm left with:









They sell a coloring agent to make these more purdee, but I didn't want to pay the extra 20 bucks. I created a mold with some cardboard and aluminum tubing. The trick was getting a non binding agent like WD40 or candle wax (which is what I used) on the surfaces I didn't want this rubber to stick to. Hot glue was used to seal everything, and I poured the compound into the mold. 18 hours later, I'm left with this:



This stuff is solid - it feels almost like a skateboard wheel.



These are the perfect height now - kinda cool.

I also spent some time getting the radiator mocked in. I've got to do a bit of trimming to get the radiator inlet to clear some of the metal in the frunk - not a big deal. I picked up some rubber grommets on Amazon. My plan is to build some cribbing that holds the radiator with these upper and lower grommets, then I'll have something to rivet some aluminum sheeting to for ducting. I want to keep the radiator as far forward as possible, while allowing enough space for an A/C condenser and intercooler heat exchanger - and having enough space on the top so the hood can close.

Posted by: pploco Jul 8 2019, 09:13 AM

With the 4 day weekend and perfect weather, I had to take a break from work, put the 914 project on hold for a bit, and chase my 2nd passion. I took my son and a couple of his friends up into the Whiteclouds to enjoy a little backpacking and fishing in some of the most beautiful country on earth.

Summers in Idaho mean backpacking for my son and me. This trip, we started at the 4th of July Lake trailhead, made our way into Ant's basin, climbed Devil's Staircase (more like Satan's rickety ladder if you ask me) up over 10K feet, dropped into Cornice lake, and made our way down into Quiet lake for a couple nights. The scenery and fishing were spectacular. I couldn't believe how much snow is still up there. Luckily Quiet wasn't iced over as were some of the higher lakes.

We hiked back out over Patterson's peak for an incredible view of the Whiteclouds and Sawtooth's to the west. This is definitely a do-over trip - as soon as my legs stop aching. We pulled about 18 miles in total, but the elevation changes made it feel like 50. What a great way to spend a few days.


Looking out over Ant's Basin to the north.


Approaching Devil's Staircase - from the base to the top (called "Windy Devil) is only about 1/2 mile - but it took a good three hours to climb.


The north side of Windy Devil. Just over my head you can see the snow bank we had to slide down before climbing down the steep scree. That's Cornice lake (mostly frozen) to my left.


The descent to Quiet lake from Cornice. Castle Peak is in the background.


Quiet Lake





View of Castle Peak from Patterson's Peak on our way out.


View of the Sawtooth's to the west from Patterson's

Posted by: pploco Aug 12 2019, 09:54 AM

I spent a lot of time on the 914 this weekend. I'm currently working on the radiator (more pics to come). I've got the radiator cradle and shroud almost complete, but I wondered what A/C exchanger/condensor would work best with the Celica GT radiator and 914 sizing. Anyone have any recommendations?

Posted by: Chi-town Aug 12 2019, 03:56 PM

I'd probably look at the Celica gt unit as your radiator probably already has the mounting for it?

Posted by: pploco Aug 12 2019, 09:23 PM

The Celica condenser is 26X13.75 which is about an inch taller than the radiator - for some weird reason. I’ve never looked closely at the GT setup, but I built this cradle thinking that the condenser would be about the same dimensions as the radiator core - wrong. I also fabbed the whole works as far forward as possible without interfering with the hood, so there’s not a lot of head room. Long story short, I’d probably have to start over to get it to fit. I’ll probably have to suck it up and buy a restomod universal one.

I see a few cheap parallel condensers on flea bay that would fit, I wonder if they are worth trying.

Posted by: pploco Aug 13 2019, 11:35 AM

Here are a couple that would fit the dimensions:

Subaru Legacy (2010+) - 24 1/2 X 12 3/8
Land Rover (2002+) - 11 3/4 X 25
Subaru Forester & Crosstrek (2009+) - 11 3/4 X 25 1/8
VW Eurovan (1993+) 11 7/8 X 26
Mazda Mazdaspeed (2006) - 12 1/2 X 24 13/16

I'll go the Subaru Legacy route I think. It would make the hoses much easier to make, and keep things compatible with the Subaru motor.

Posted by: pploco Aug 21 2019, 07:47 AM

Here's what I ended up going with. I love Summit. I ordered this on Monday afternoon and it was on my doorstep Tuesday morning, and had it installed by Tuesday evening.

Posted by: 76-914 Aug 21 2019, 09:51 AM

That will work. Any size that fits your opening will work. The 914 is a small cabin to cool so any small condenser will do. Your going to love having AC.

Posted by: pploco Aug 21 2019, 12:39 PM

Things I still need to do up front:
1. Mount the water/air heat exchanger
2. Shroud the top
3. Paint the radiator/condenser crib
4. Run the coolant, A/C, and water/air IC lines

I should have the shrouding and painting done this week. I then plan to start running the coolant lines and the A/C and water/air return lines under the console. The a/c and water/air feed lines will be run under the rocker or under the car (still haven't decided).

Posted by: pploco Aug 22 2019, 01:08 PM

Here are a few more pictures of the radiator/condenser setup:






Next up is the shrouding. I've got the side figured out, the top should be pretty straightforward, but the bottom is going to be a puzzle. Any idears?

Posted by: pploco Sep 16 2019, 09:52 AM

I got a full day in on the car this weekend. I had a daughter head off to college a few weeks ago, so garage time has been non-existent. Now that things are slowing down a bit, I hope to get back at this to get some regular progress going. I finished the radiator, A/C condenser and water/air IC exchanger - got all the shrouding done and sealed. I cleaned things up a bit in the frunk, and I'm ready to move to something else.

I still need to run the lines, but I plan to run the coolant lines through the center console, so I decided to hit the floor pan and see what I was working with.

First off - got the radiator a/c cradle painted. I picked up a nutsert rivet tool that is pretty magical, so I may have gone a bit nuts with it (no pun intended) - but man its such a great tool!



All assembled, painted, and sealed. I even hooked up a battery to the fans to test the flow - it definitely moves a lot of air.



I'm torn on venting the frunk. I like the idea of a stock looking sleeper, but I just can't bring myself to cutting massive holes in the inner fenders yet. I'm starting to wonder if a hood vent might be better for structure - it seems you would really weaken the front of a car that already flexes quite a bit. Now I can already hear the purists groaning about cutting holes in perfectly good hoods, but my thinking is that a hood is much easier to repair/replace than inner fender wells. I don't know... I think I'll save this decisions for a future day.

With the radiator done, I moved to the interior to see about running coolant and maybe water/air lines under the console. I've got a plan hatching to cut the top off the tunnel, clean up the rust, rearrange the fuel, brake lines and add in coolant, shifter cable. But I wanted to see what I was working with. I know there are a couple of spots to do some rust repair on.

Ode to favorite tools number two - the scaler or needler = pure magic on the tar covering. Stripping most of the tar from the pans took no more than an hour. Before getting the wirewheel or putty knife - go grab one of these for 20 bucks at HF. There is nothing more satisfying than watching huge chunks of the tar peel off with little effort.





There were three areas needing rust repair. Thankfully, only one was in the pan. There's a small spot under the passenger seat that should be pretty simple, then a spot at the base of the passenger toe kick, and a small spot in the firewall behind the driver seat. All in all, much better than I had thought originally.

I also pulled the windshield out to see how bad the bottom corners were behind the seals. Thankfully, nothing major..

Posted by: 76-914 Sep 16 2019, 10:52 AM

Posted by: pploco Sep 17 2019, 10:09 AM

So question for y'all - I'm planning to weld in a long reinforcement kit with the inside firewall piece. I have a small spot of rust at the bottom of the firewall. Should I weld a patch in prior to the chassis stiffening kit, or just prep and weld in the kit?

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 17 2019, 10:32 AM

QUOTE(pploco @ Sep 17 2019, 09:09 AM)

So question for y'all - I'm planning to weld in a long reinforcement kit with the inside firewall piece. I have a small spot of rust at the bottom of the firewall. Should I weld a patch in prior to the chassis stiffening kit, or just prep and weld in the kit?

Posted by: pploco Sep 17 2019, 10:58 AM

So even with this kit from Maddog, I should still patch the firewall?

https://maddogsmotorsports.com/914-chassis-stiffening

Posted by: dakotaewing Sep 17 2019, 01:00 PM

I agree with Andyrew.
Clean up the metal and patch the floor prior to adding the Mad dog kit,
or those holes will continue to grow.
Additionally, the floor in proper repair will add to the chassis rigidity,
especially once the kit is installed.

Posted by: pploco Sep 17 2019, 04:18 PM

Posted by: pploco Sep 23 2019, 09:40 AM

I decided to spend some time cleaning up some of the rust in the interior. I got out the wire wheel and started cleaning up some of the metal around the passenger footwell. Cut out the rusted bit, and welded in a patch.



Feeling pretty good about myself, I worked my way back stripping the floor down and really digging into the pitted spots. With the exception of one small spot under the passenger seat, there were no pinholes or spots needing repair. Overall it looked pretty good. That is until I saw what was peeking out from behind the firewall

I found a few spots on the passenger firewall that I started poking and digging out with a screwdriver. Before too long, the cutter came out and I ended up with this:



Now I'm afraid to see what the driver's side has hiding. What a friggin setback... Oh well. I think to do this right, I'm going to have to get it up on a rotisserie to fix the rear pan, and I'm super tempted to have the whole tub media blasted. I hope (fingers crossed) that the longs are still okay. I know there's a small spot under the hell hole, but everything else looks pretty solid.

I've heard it said here many times - its never the rust you can see in these cars, its what you can't see. Well, here's proof to that.

Posted by: Andyrew Sep 23 2019, 09:54 AM

Also the radiator setup looks REALLY good!

I wouldnt hesitate to cut holes in the wheel wells. You need less than you think. In the end its just a 4 cylinder.

Go low with your holes, about 2" from the corners and drill a 1" pilot hole, on each inside and outside lower corner, Move up about 8" and drill two more 1" holes then connect the dots. Thats all you should end up needing.

Sometime down the road you can add a sheet metal ducting and get back some trunk space.





Dont get discouraged with the rust your finding. Thats much better than some I've seen! Brace the car well and go for it. You dont need to do a rotisserie.

Posted by: pploco Sep 23 2019, 12:55 PM

QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 23 2019, 09:54 AM)

Posted by: pploco Oct 7 2019, 09:18 AM

I finally tackled something I've been putting off for a while. The Coldwater cradle sits the drivetrain just a little too far forward - causing the axles to not quite line up. I've been thinking for months on how I could pull everything back about 2 inches to get the axles to line up better. I decided to man up and finish it so I could do some fab work in the engine compartment.

Here's what I started with:


I got a strap around the motor and one on the trans, then used the hoist to support the motor, dropped the cradle off and sliced the mount along the bend. Then I flipped the cut flanges and put them back on the motor - pulled the drive train back a bit. I used a super long screwdriver pushed through the hub - which worked perfectly because the rubber grip centered in the splines. Then I positioned the trans axle outputs to line up. I measured the distance between axle output and hubs to ensure I was square, then I tacked the motor mount flanges back to the cradle. Checked my measurements again, and welded them up.



I'm not sure why Ian didn't do this in the first place. I'm no engineer, but having the motor weight centered on top of the crossbar seems a lot better. It was actually a much easier fix than I was anticipating. I have a tendency to overthink things like this and obsess on all the different ways to go about it. The hardest part was reworking the trans mounts. I forgot to take pictures after finishing, but they turned out pretty nice. I did have my chopsaw blade bind and explode on me - that sucked.

I also had some time to make a better cart for the motor so I can wheel it around the garage and it sits high enough to clear the engine hoist.

Posted by: pploco Oct 14 2019, 09:04 AM

I was cruising the local metal recycler on Friday looking for some scraps for my son, and I found a pile of what looked like Home Depot shelving. Before I could talk some sense into myself, I had two of these thrown together in my garage:



For less than 50 bucks and an afternoon with the cutter and welder, I've ruined my two engine stands to build a rotisserie. I'm too committed now on this project, and really want to fix the holes in the rear floor properly. I also want to strip the inner fender and under coating without having to lay on my back on the cold garage floor.

Posted by: dakotaewing Oct 14 2019, 10:30 AM

I would agree with Andy based on the bottom photo.
In the case on this photo, I'd clean that up with ospho, neutralize the ospho,
coat it with about 4 coats of Zero Rust, and put in good patches and then the Mad Dog kit.
You wont be able to weld through the Zero Rust, so keep that in mind.
I know you want to have the best car you can,
but also remind yourself that this is not going to be a $100K original six.
Its your car - The only other thing I would say is,
whatever your decision to proceed is - enjoy it.

QUOTE(pploco @ Sep 23 2019, 09:40 AM)

I decided to spend some time cleaning up some of the rust in the interior. I got out the wire wheel and started cleaning up some of the metal around the passenger footwell. Cut out the rusted bit, and welded in a patch.



Feeling pretty good about myself, I worked my way back stripping the floor down and really digging into the pitted spots. With the exception of one small spot under the passenger seat, there were no pinholes or spots needing repair. Overall it looked pretty good. That is until I saw what was peeking out from behind the firewall

I found a few spots on the passenger firewall that I started poking and digging out with a screwdriver. Before too long, the cutter came out and I ended up with this:



Now I'm afraid to see what the driver's side has hiding. What a friggin setback... Oh well. I think to do this right, I'm going to have to get it up on a rotisserie to fix the rear pan, and I'm super tempted to have the whole tub media blasted. I hope (fingers crossed) that the longs are still okay. I know there's a small spot under the hell hole, but everything else looks pretty solid.

I've heard it said here many times - its never the rust you can see in these cars, its what you can't see. Well, here's proof to that.

Posted by: rjames Oct 14 2019, 12:33 PM

Nice job!! Totally get the ‘overthinking things’ when it comes to certain tasks, especially cutting bad metal out and replacing with good.
I remember agonizing over cutting out 1/4th of the floor pan for days. When I finally decided there weren’t any shortcuts to be had and dove in, the entire job- cutting out and replacing with new metal took only a couple hours.

Keep up the great work!!

Posted by: pploco Feb 6 2020, 04:45 PM

Well, it's been a while since I've updated this conversion thread. But, I have a good excuse. I've been hating my current garage workspace for a while. Its been a huge source of fighting between my wife and me over the years. She gets tired of my "crap" crowding her parking spot in the garage. And, now that my son has the welding and fabrication bug, the problem has compounded. So, back in October I started a search and found a solution to the problem:




I found a barn. Sure there was this annoyance of it sitting on a 2.4 acre lot, and it required selling and buying a house. But these are just small details right? After lots and lots of begging (and a commitment to install a new kitchen and flooring in the process), my wife agreed.

So in between house projects, I've gutted the barn, roughed in some plumbing for a sink and toilet, and had a concrete floor put in. It should be a MUCH better space for these types of projects. The problem is that all work on the 914 has come to a screeching halt. BUT, hopefully soon I'll have things put back together in the new place.





It's wired for 220, but needs a little insulation and heat before its ready to see any action. I'm still debating on whether to run gas from the house (about 100 feet) or just get a pellet stove with a thermostat. Either way, I'm super excited and have serious motivation to finish my home remodel projects.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 6 2020, 04:54 PM

Run gas! Pellet stoves are a pain in the rear.

Posted by: PanelBilly Feb 6 2020, 05:42 PM

My father-in-law had a barn like that for the horses. We had to dig up every pole and replace the lower portion, because of rot. The horses piss and it runs down the pole. Horses produce alot of liquid. Hope that's not am issue for you

Posted by: PanelBilly Feb 6 2020, 05:45 PM

My father-in-law had a barn like that for the horses. We had to dig up every pole and replace the lower portion, because of rot. The horses piss and it runs down the pole. Horses produce alot of liquid. Hope that's not am issue for you

Posted by: lierofox Feb 7 2020, 12:04 PM

A barn almost exactly like that is what I pulled my 914 out of before I ended up STI-defiling it as well!

https://i.imgur.com/VHwE7xa.jpg

I mean, she still is...

Posted by: pploco Jan 18 2022, 11:15 AM

After two years of renovating a new house and barn, I'm finally finding the time (and space) to work on my project. After discovering all the rust spots, I built a rotisserie from some old home depot shelving at the local metal scrap, stripped the car down, and got it up on the skewer, and as I write this am having the tub bead blasted. I also got my RD order with most of the body repair pieces I think I'm going to need.

Posted by: pploco Jan 19 2022, 11:41 AM

The sandblasting is finished and wow, what a difference. Being able to see everything gives me renewed excitement. There were a couple of surprises - like the tapdance someone had performed and then covered with filler on the targa roll bar. WTF!! Also, the seal trim in the front is a bit worse than I thought. But otherwise, nothing that I didn't suspect.

So after a few well-spent bucks, a huge mess in front of my shop, and an hour with the leafblower - here's what we're looking at...












Here's the money shot. This made sandblasting worth every penny:

Posted by: pploco Jan 19 2022, 11:48 AM

One surprise was finding what I assume are trim holes along the sides (plugged with filler). Was there an option for trim pieces down the fenders on 914s? I've never seen a 914 with trim.





Also, this is a total headscratcher. How the hell does this happen?

Posted by: mepstein Jan 19 2022, 12:35 PM

The side trim was an aftermarket thing.
Barbaric

Posted by: VaccaRabite Jan 19 2022, 02:27 PM

Beltine trim was a dealer option. Ruins the lines of the car, but was a popular thing in the 70s.

No idea about the targa bar.

Zach

Posted by: 76-914 Jan 19 2022, 10:26 PM

I'm glad to see you back on it. Centering your output flanges with your wheel centers was a good idea. You'll never have the axle separate from a CV since they're now centered. I built my first cradle with that in mind and I've never lost an axle or CV yet. I used Ian's cradle on the 2nd conversion and popped the axle loose from the Subaru (inboard) CV when I punched through a turn. Interestingly enough I spoke with Steve Williams last week (he is in Idaho also) and his popped out of the Subaru CV after punching it in a turn. I think I'll modify this cradle to center up as well. None of my business but you don't need that (Renegade V8) large cutout in the front. My 70 came with that huge opening and I welded it back up because I felt the area had been compromised structurally. I cut out the 5 centermost factory holes and that is all I need to cool the Suby 6's. I can't speak to the 4 cylinder turbos and maybe you need a larger inlet with those. Looking forward to seeing your 914 at one of the upcoming events.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Jan 20 2022, 05:42 AM

QUOTE(pploco @ Jan 19 2022, 12:48 PM)

One surprise was finding what I assume are trim holes along the sides (plugged with filler). Was there an option for trim pieces down the fenders on 914s? I've never seen a 914 with trim.





Also, this is a total headscratcher. How the hell does this happen?

Posted by: mgarrison Jan 20 2022, 07:52 AM

FWIW, my Targa bar had all kinds of dings & dents in it. One rather large on the driver's side. Mine had never been filled until I took the effort to do it. All the dark areas are lower/dents...

Posted by: mepstein Jan 20 2022, 09:40 AM

When I worked at the Porsche shop, we had a Ferrari Testarossa with dents in the roof and all over the body. Guy said his kids used to drop things on the car in the garage.

Posted by: tazz9924 Jan 20 2022, 04:20 PM

how much did they charge you for the sand blasting if you dont mind me asking?

Posted by: pploco Jan 20 2022, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(tazz9924 @ Jan 20 2022, 03:20 PM)

Posted by: pploco Jan 31 2022, 11:13 AM

I've been picking away at the rust repair. This is definitely a "slow and steady wins the race" type of effort. It's been super cold in Boise, so I'm not able to do any priming as I go. With that in mind, I've been working on the areas that are open so I can prime once things warm up. Feels like a bit of a puzzle.

The passenger floor plan was swiss cheese.



The seat hinge mount looked to be in good shape. I'll clean it up and reuse it.



The floor pan has lots of spot welds. After drilling out about 10 of them, I realized that I didn't need to save the old pan section. Out came the grinder.





now I have to fix a small section on the drivers side just under the inner firewall, and fix a couple small sections of the outer firewall. Overall the metal under the tunnel is good, there are a couple of small pinhole areas that I think I can fill. I'm debating if I should open the tunnel up. I really want to clean things up and pull the old tubing out.

I cut the old section out leaving about 2 inches overlap. I lined up the new section and used clecos to hold it in place. I then cut through both layers. As I went, I'd pull the cleco, peel back the old metal, and add a butt clamp. Once it was flush, I tacked it in place.



Still need to do a bit more clean up, but it turned out pretty nice. Keeping the heat down with a copper backing and small stitch welds was definitely the way to go.

Posted by: pploco Feb 18 2022, 10:23 AM

I've been making steady progress on the rust repair. I finished up all the outer firewall patches, and decided to replace the passenger door sill. I debated on it, because it wasn't terrible, just pitted in several spots where the rockers attach. I decided to just pull it - I'm glad I did. Besides shaping the front, it wasn't bad and I was able to clean up the rust underneath. It's still too cold to shoot primer, so I've got it mocked in with Clecos for now; I'll pull it all apart to spray once things get a bit warmer.








I decided to tackle the passenger sail. Partly so I could open up the top of the quarter panel and dig out the seam sealer. What a mess. Fritz got slap happy with the seam sealer gun - I had to dig a brick of that shit out of the space between the door jamb and the sail panel.

I'm sure there was a good reason for it, but why would a big chunk of sealer be sprayed up inside the panel. Is it for sound deadening, or to keep rigidity? Either way the stuff sucks!

I'm pretty conservative when I do cuts like these, but it looks like I'm going to have to pull the sail panel all the way to the top of the targa bar to clean up all the rust.

I'm definitely tainted now when it comes to rust in these cars. Whenever I see an ad for a 914 that says "little to no rust" I vomit a little in my mouth.

Posted by: pploco May 20 2022, 09:55 AM

I've been making progress on the rust repair. My schedule only allows me a few hours here and there; but this project began as a mental oasis for me. I've settled into a place where I find a few hours to steal away into the shop, put on some tunes, and decompress. Its been a therapeutic project, but slow.

I've got the passenger sail panel ready to be primed and welded, I've cleaned all the tar, seam sealer, and foam from inside the passenger rear quarter. That was a junk-punch journey for sure.

The best method I settled on was to have a putty knife in one hand, torch in the other, and a long flat screwdriver in my back pocket. Having the car on a rotisserie helps a ton - I have no idea how peeps clean all that shit out lying on their backs or up on a lift. Being able to stand and move the car around makes it much much easier. Also, if helpful, I'll pass along a few lessons I've learned.

1. Seam sealer comes off much easier when its molten - keep a fire extinguisher handy
2. Farm words help while digging the foam out of the rear fender well corners
3. Flaming seam sealer globs burn like hell if they fall in between your shoe and ankle

I digress....





I've been dreading the small long repair. Once I cut all the rust back to solid metal I was left with a hole that was on multiple angles. I decided to sack up and finish it. I have a long stiffener kit from Brad, so the repair doesn't need to look pretty, but I want it to be done right. The inside of the long looks pretty good. Before I weld everything up, I'll treat it and coat it with either POR or or a thick coat of epoxy primer.

Posted by: 76-914 May 20 2022, 08:20 PM

QUOTE(pploco @ May 20 2022, 08:55 AM)

I've been making progress on the rust repair. My schedule only allows me a few hours here and there; but this project began as a mental oasis for me. I've settled into a place where I find a few hours to steal away into the shop, put on some tunes, and decompress. Its been a therapeutic project, but slow.

I've got the passenger sail panel ready to be primed and welded, I've cleaned all the tar, seam sealer, and foam from inside the passenger rear quarter. That was a junk-punch journey for sure.

The best method I settled on was to have a putty knife in one hand, torch in the other, and a long flat screwdriver in my back pocket. Having the car on a rotisserie helps a ton - I have no idea how peeps clean all that shit out lying on their backs or up on a lift. Being able to stand and move the car around makes it much much easier. Also, if helpful, I'll pass along a few lessons I've learned.

1. Seam sealer comes off much easier when its molten - keep a fire extinguisher handy
2. Farm words help while digging the foam out of the rear fender well corners
3. Flaming seam sealer globs burn like hell if they fall in between your shoe and ankle

I digress....





I've been dreading the small long repair. Once I cut all the rust back to solid metal I was left with a hole that was on multiple angles. I decided to sack up and finish it. I have a long stiffener kit from Brad, so the repair doesn't need to look pretty, but I want it to be done right. The inside of the long looks pretty good. Before I weld everything up, I'll treat it and coat it with either POR or or a thick coat of epoxy primer.

Posted by: pploco May 22 2022, 09:11 AM

I had a few hours to work on the 914 this weekend. I prepped and treated the interior of the long and the sail panel with ZR. I attached a brush to a long stick and got as far up into the rear of the long as I could and did the same forward. Then let it cure for 24 hours.




I also hit the spots I knew would be tough or impossible to reach once the sail panel was welded on. My plan is to use ZR in spots that I won't be able to get to with epoxy primer.

I made my patch for the lower rear long with two pieces of 16gauge to match the thickness and structure of the existing metal. This has added a few challenges in welding and fabbing the patches, but makes things much easier once the panel is fitted in matching thickness. I still have some cleanup to do, but it turned out better than I hoped.

The PO had done some serious hammering to the long - no idea what he was thinking. The top of the long towards the fender was smashed down in the corner. When I repaired the hell hold, I wrapped the top with a piece of 14 gauge and bent it around to reshape it. Its kinda ugly, but the long stiffener kit and fender should cover most of the dents.




Once cleaned up, I test fitted the long siffener kit rear piece and it fit perfectly. I was pretty happy until I stripped one of the bolts in the suspension mount taking the piece off. I think I can just run a chase through it, but makes me kinda mad.

Finally, I welded and cleaned up some of the sail panel replacement.



I still have a few spot welds and some cleanup and pinholes to fix, but I ran out of welding gas so I called it a night. Getting this phase completed felt like a milestone.

Posted by: pploco Nov 1 2022, 12:15 PM

Update progress. I'm still in the fight and still working on the rust spots. I ran out of easy options so I began to tackle the tough spots. Thanks to the donor parts I pulled from the Renegade Hybrid parts car I fixed the frunk cowl. I don't know why I put it off for so long, it was actually pretty easy.





I also dug into the drivers door jam, rocker, sail panel, and rear quarter. The sail panel rust band extended into the door jam. I could have probably just cut the lower part of the sail panel, but once I opened it up I'm glad I had the space to clean and treat behind the panel and the fender.

Posted by: pploco Nov 8 2022, 01:36 PM

I thought I'd post a few pictures of the front passenger fender/cowl repair. Warning: seam welding happened as a final step :-)











I have a few pin holes to fix and some cleanup, but I'm glad with how it turned out. It feels good to have most of the major rust repair metal work done.

Posted by: Mayne Nov 8 2022, 05:31 PM

Wow, amazing work!