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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ OT: How light can you get late model
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 08:37 PM
Anyone have experience or know of someone putting the late model 993, 996 and Boxster platforms on a diet?
993 = 3064 lbs
996 = 2998 lbs
Boxster = 3118 lbs
(all figures from a google search)
Let's have two numbers:
1. If you were to gut the interior and add f/g lids with a cage
2. Same as above with f/g fenders (full body mod).
Just curious..... 
Thanks,
Bill P.
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 23 2005, 08:43 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 23 2005, 07:37 PM) |
| Just curious..... |
now what are you doing?
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 08:49 PM
Homework for a possible course change......
At the crossroads of continuing on with the 914 or buying a taildragger for the track....lotsa options.... 
Still got JLO for my 914 fix....track wise we know that 911's are fast....but I wonder if I "could" still be competitive with a fully prepped 911 in auto-x?
Fordahl had a 2.8L 911 that won Parade several years in a row...beating 914's...seems unlikely since I suck as a driver...but on the track it would be quick....
Bill P.
Posted by: bd1308 Jun 23 2005, 08:58 PM
quoted from some widely-known source (that I forgot who wrote)
"The most important thing to any go fast car is the driver"
if you suck, get lessons. From what I hear, it makes a HUGE difference. With that being said, I have to get my car from peeing oil everywhere. No track for me....
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 23 2005, 08:59 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 23 2005, 07:49 PM) |
| Homework for a possible course change...... |
you've got too much money on your hands ...
wanna adopt me?
i have a green thumb (comes in handy for the yard and the garden), i can cook, clean the pool, handy with tools, heck, i can even weld!
papa?
on a more serious note, i'd hate to see all that money spend on the 914 go down the drain ...
AndyPS: but if you're selling, i'll take the engine off yer back if the price is right!
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 09:03 PM
hmmm....that could be an idea.... 
Interested in the whole enchilada?
I know you like Mexican! 
Bill P.
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 23 2005, 09:07 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 23 2005, 08:03 PM) |
| Interested in the whole enchilada? |
interested? yes! but i'd have to sell my firstborn to afford that enchilada ....
Andy
Posted by: J P Stein Jun 23 2005, 09:17 PM
Hay Bill:
Did I tell ya about the Boxster I trailered home from one of our AXs. 2004 model....short version....the oil pump fried then the motor seized.... while the dealer's guy was driving it.
Sure, he gets a new motor.....you wouldn't.
None of them water pumper motors (cept the GT2,3,turbo, cup cars ....30K for a rebuild, yada) are worth spit. Generally(IMO), big motors mean big class, big cla$$ = cup cars & such. Not to be rude, but do you wanna race or be a mobile chicane?
Were it me, I'd go to a smaller motor (2.8/3.0) & find some competition with guys I could afford to run with.....guys with a small fortune who are determined to make it smaller.
Posted by: grantsfo Jun 23 2005, 09:34 PM
Your Boxster weight is off, New Boxsters range from 2850 to 2950 lbs. Earlier models were even less I believe.
Its pretty easy to shed weight from the Boxster. Remove convertible top mechanism, go with fiberglass or carbon fiber body panels and hoods, Lightweight headers and exhaust, lose all the airbags and interior crap, lightweight wheels, I think coilovers are lighter as well, lose the electronic seats in favor of GT3 or lightweight race seats
And dont forget you can drop a 3.4 liter engine in the Boxster.
Boxster racing board is a good resource. http://www.iq.dynip.com/~racing/index.cgi
Dont forget about the new Cayman. Its what the boxster should have been originally.
Posted by: drew365 Jun 23 2005, 09:36 PM
As soon as I read about the Cayman, I tried to figure how I could get one to put on the track.
Then I figured I could save a lot of money by buying a cheap used Boxster, gut it and put in a good motor.
I'm going to see how far I can push the 914 before I do anything, but at some point I'd like to show the tail draggers they can be beat by a midengine and I'm not sure the 914 is gonna do it. I ran one event in my friends 911 and I was faster than in my 914 even though he runs in a near stock class. I don't know what the damn secret is with the 911 but it pisses me off. Vendettas are expensive! 
Posted by: nine14kitten Jun 23 2005, 09:51 PM
ok, you guys,,,,,,I'm going to need some help restraining Billy from buying a 911.... He said it best..." this is worse than CRACK!!" I"m scoping out the house for good places to hide the keyboard.... 
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 09:53 PM
It's war in the Pickering household!....Doris wants to stay 914....I say nuke it from orbit and buy a 993!
Bill P.
Posted by: nine14kitten Jun 23 2005, 09:53 PM
he's just jealous that I was catching up to him in autocrossing, so now he wants to get a track car.... 
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 09:58 PM
Ouch!!!!!
Hmmm...she has gotten faster and faster....
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:03 PM
Hey JP,
What do you think of the pre varioram 993's? I've got a spare 993 motor, so I'm set for years of track use if I get one. Just add a cage, a few other goodies and voila....track car!
Bill P.
Posted by: SirAndy Jun 23 2005, 10:06 PM
sit back and enjoy the show! 
Posted by: VegasRacer Jun 23 2005, 10:11 PM
Adding fuel to the fire
Some place in the last week or so I saw an ad that this car is for sale.
I can't remember where it was listed.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:19 PM
Hi John,
I'm kind partial to this one....
kinda looks like our old 914 that Felix has now....
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:19 PM
another...
Attached image(s)
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:20 PM
last one...
I could have fun in this thing!
Attached image(s)
Posted by: drew365 Jun 23 2005, 10:22 PM
I really like the color of the 993 Bill. The way it looks on my monitor is half way between yellow and orange. Do you know what the color is? I'm trying to pick a color for my 914.
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:26 PM
Hi Andy,
Same for me...the car looks yellow orange, almost a chrome "tangerine". I really like it. I may steal the colors for our next car....Doris and I like the splotchs!
How's the car doing? All back together?
Bill P.
Posted by: nine14kitten Jun 23 2005, 10:27 PM
they MUST have seen our last paint job and copied it....imitation is the best form of flattery!!! I"m sure that paint job cost a bit more than ours did!
Posted by: VegasRacer Jun 23 2005, 10:31 PM
Very nice Bill. 
I approve.
Those wheels are a bit much. Are they 18 carat or 24?
Posted by: drew365 Jun 23 2005, 10:32 PM
My car is back together and running well. I changed my front tires from 205 to 225 and it threw the corner balance off. Even though the car sits about 1" taller in front I was oversteering at the last event. Couldn't figure that one out. I firmed up the front bar but couldn't pull the back end in. I'm getting it corner balanced next week and I should be good to go. I may be running at Infinion in October. I hope to see you at a track someday.
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 23 2005, 10:33 PM
They must be 24 karat wheels...the guy wants $79K for the car....I won't be on grid with this particular car.... 
Bill P.
Posted by: Britain Smith Jun 23 2005, 10:55 PM
A little birdy told me that there is over 25lbs of wiring alone in the 993.
-Britain
Posted by: phantom914 Jun 23 2005, 10:55 PM
| QUOTE (drew365 @ Jun 23 2005, 07:36 PM) |
| As soon as I read about the Cayman, I tried to figure how I could get one to put on the track. Then I figured I could save a lot of money by buying a cheap used Boxster, gut it and put in a good motor. I'm going to see how far I can push the 914 before I do anything, but at some point I'd like to show the tail draggers they can be beat by a midengine and I'm not sure the 914 is gonna do it. I ran one event in my friends 911 and I was faster than in my 914 even though he runs in a near stock class. I don't know what the damn secret is with the 911 but it pisses me off. Vendettas are expensive! |
Andy,
What is lacking in the 914 that makes you slower than in the 911? Acceleration, cornering? What?
Andrew
Posted by: neo914-6 Jun 23 2005, 11:47 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 23 2005, 08:19 PM) |
| Hi John, I'm kind partial to this one.... kinda looks like our old 914 that Felix has now.... |
Bill,
Not anymore.
You're making me feel bad about changing it so much. I just mounted the 996 Technos on it and am planning the new lids. Since the JKelly flares are only tached on, I thought about finding another base car...maybe one with a full cage and power steering You're just going to through a phase. Get over it!!
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 23 2005, 11:58 PM
Felix... NO
Dont make me... buy your car somehow....
Nooo!
btw, pics tonight of some reinforcements on the fender.
Andrew
Posted by: Mueller Jun 23 2005, 11:59 PM
| QUOTE (bd1308 @ Jun 23 2005, 07:58 PM) |
| quoted from some widely-known source (that I forgot who wrote) "The most important thing to any go fast car is the driver" if you suck, get lessons. From what I hear, it makes a HUGE difference. With that being said, I have to get my car from peeing oil everywhere. No track for me.... |
you need to pay attention much better....Bill and Doris hold track records in thier 914
I think a Boxster based car would be great...I showed the wife a picture of the new Cayman tonight, she loved it until I mentioned the price
, so much for trading in the 911 for one
Posted by: Andyrew Jun 24 2005, 12:03 AM
I'd love to build a twin turbo v8 boxster track car.... btw..
Posted by: drew365 Jun 24 2005, 09:01 AM
| QUOTE (phantom914 @ Jun 23 2005, 09:55 PM) | ||
Andy, What is lacking in the 914 that makes you slower than in the 911? Acceleration, cornering? What? Andrew |
Don't know for sure. I drove the 911 at Buttonwillow on a Sunday to finish a racers clinic because my car broke late Saturday. I even moved my tires from the 914 to the 911 so it wasn't tires. It was probably just me being more on top of it on Sunday but my 914 is heavily modified and the 911 is not and it was the first time I ever drove a 911, so it surprised me that I turned my fastest time on Sunday. The 911 I drove is the one behind me in my avatar, it's a early '80s with either a 3.0 or 3.2 but is also heavier than my car.
Posted by: Jeroen Jun 24 2005, 02:45 PM
bill, yer just being impatient...
not that I blame you, but what you're thinking now won't get you a faster car, nor will it put you back on the track any sooner...
It'll just cost you more
I love 911s, they're fast and lots a fun, and I'll get another as soon as "the budget" allows, but there's no substitute for a mid engined car
So either stick with what you got (which will make an awesome car, beyond any doubt) or go Boxster...
Stock Boxster is slow as shit... 200bhp aint gonna get ya no where (even if you rip everything out and get all f/g bodywork)
So you'll end up getting either an 3.2S or a 3.4 or a 3.6 engine for it...
Lots a crappy electrics to figure out and a oil starvation problem to solve (no dry sump)
Others may disagree, but I'm very sceptic about the quality of the watercooled engines...
Only option left: Be patient!
Just my €0,02
Posted by: bd1308 Jun 24 2005, 02:54 PM
| QUOTE (Jeroen @ Jun 24 2005, 02:45 PM) |
| Just my €0,02 |
LAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Euro is in....wait how do you do the symbol...
Posted by: seanery Jun 24 2005, 03:05 PM
don't anyone get me wrong, I LOVE 914s, but if I could afford an ex 993 cup or RS car or a 996 GT3 race car I'd be all over that. Yes, the expendables are gonna be higher, yes the maintenance is gonna be higher (when it needs it) but man, what a great platform 
Posted by: nine14cats Jun 24 2005, 04:36 PM
Great Thread!
914Club opinions at their best....we've got mid engine merits versus tail draggers, talking about race car builds, talking about colors of cars....JP asking if I want to be a mobile chicane, Sir Andy calling me ....
I love you guys!
Here's to you! 
Bill P.
Posted by: TimT Jun 24 2005, 04:45 PM
get a 993 roller, or buy some 993 suspension and graft it onto the 914!!
modern suspension, mid-engined car
Posted by: GTeener Jun 24 2005, 05:52 PM
| QUOTE (nine14cats @ Jun 23 2005, 06:49 PM) |
| Homework for a possible course change...... At the crossroads of continuing on with the 914 or buying a taildragger for the track....lotsa options.... Still got JLO for my 914 fix....track wise we know that 911's are fast....but I wonder if I "could" still be competitive with a fully prepped 911 in auto-x? Fordahl had a 2.8L 911 that won Parade several years in a row...beating 914's...seems unlikely since I suck as a driver...but on the track it would be quick.... Bill P. |
Bill,
Stay mid engine
Buy a Boxster, strip it and upgrade the engine.
infact, I know where you get the engine already
...or buy the Caymen stripped
...or better yet give me that money you want to blow so I can improve my 914
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