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Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 03:06 PM

I almost tacked this on to one of the many existing tire threads

But I found that the OP typically just had a question or two and then floodgates open on the best combo of rim and tire size

195/65's come up all the time because they have a larger footprint then stock but are pretty close to stock height

Everyone who has shopped for this size knows that high performance summer tires pretty much don't exist with the alternative being bland all-season tires

I have Eagle GT's on the car now, but while they have worn great and evenly, they won't pass inspection this year

So with the big name tire manufacturers not providing anything interesting in this size, I decided to see what the small or off brand tire manufacturers had

The first tire I landed on was the Accelera 951 that I found at multiple online retailers for cheap

They were discontinued and therefore maybe a little older date code, but the reality was that nobody actually had them in stock (I had to place orders to find out as nobody answers email these days)

So I think I found a couple of good choices, but landed on this one

Before I reveal the brand or comment on it myself, I am just going to post some pictures of the tire - post what you think


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Posted by: Porschef Apr 12 2019, 03:37 PM

I like that size tire, and yes, it’s unfortunate that performance choices are very limited

Posted by: johnlush Apr 12 2019, 03:47 PM

Timely as I've been shopping recently for that size. The best I came up with was the Cooper CS5 Ultra Touring @ $86 which probably falls into the "bland all-season" category. I'll be interested in seeing what you've come up with.

Posted by: lierofox Apr 12 2019, 03:56 PM

The last time I went shopping for tires in that size I didn't have many options either. I ended up settling on these https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Premier+A%2FS&partnum=965HR5PREAS

Posted by: Porschef Apr 12 2019, 04:25 PM

I ran those Coopers on my Golf. Granted, it was a diesel, but I found them pretty grippy and very quiet. Affordable too.

Posted by: thelogo Apr 12 2019, 04:26 PM

I have these . great tire .
For the street
Hard to beat these

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 04:46 PM

I looked at those too

I went deep and left no stone unturned, so I'll be shocked if anybody shows me a tire available in the USA that I didn't see

Those that like a more period correct rounded shoulder should really like these

I won't know how much I like the rounded shoulders of these (compared to the Goodyear GT's on the car) until they are on the car

Knowing there was not going to be a foolproof way to really gauge one tire against another, what I was looking for was an A A or A AA that had as much interconnected rubber as possible

So many of the tires available have free floating blocks of rubber with lots of sipping that I can see being "squirmy"

These tires have minimal sipping and more or less solid bands of rubber around the tire

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 04:52 PM

I like Tire Rack and those look like nice tires that I'm sure you like a lot, but at a price I would only pay if the were some sticky summer tires (but that's just me)

give us a review!

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 04:56 PM

BTW when quoting prices please include shipping to keep it consistent and apples to apples

Also, please review the tires you have in this size, especially if they are still available

Posted by: 914 Apr 12 2019, 05:32 PM

Scott,
I would recommend Vredestein tires old school look for the 914's
That is what I will be putting on my "6" soon..
914/Alan

Posted by: Big Len Apr 12 2019, 05:40 PM

It's the size I chose. You might try Eurotire
https://www.eurotire.com/searchresults.htm?q=tsaaw:195|h:65|d:15zz~

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 05:45 PM

some of the Vredestein there look like good choices

the rest of the tires are the usual

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 05:52 PM

The tires I started this thread with are A A traction, 520 treadwear, H speed rated

They cost $62 each and are not off brand made by one of the well known manufacturers

Posted by: bbrock Apr 12 2019, 06:10 PM

I just bought a set of Firehawk AS tires in that size last week. I needed all season tires and these are considered "performance all season" for whatever that's worth. They got good reviews but my car is still several months away from going on the road so no personal experience yet. $73/tire at the local shop.

Ironically, I would have preferred a 185/70 tire but could only find summer tires in that size.

Posted by: lierofox Apr 12 2019, 06:36 PM

I didn't get them from Tire Rack, got them from a local guy (who also from time to time gives me a pretty decent discount since the company I work for brings our fleet vehicles to him for tires.) That was just the first link that popped up for them.

As far as a review, well, I don't really have much of a basis for comparison since pretty much EVERY tire I've bought for any vehicle I own has either been an all season or touring tires to save myself the trouble of swapping tires, or stocking and storing extra wheels, and also maximize the time between buying new tires, so I don't really have any experience with performance summer tires to compare them to.

These ones have performed just fine for my driving style though, I don't drive all that "spirited" in my 914, lacking both front and rear anti-sway bars, I treat it more like a daily driver that knows how to properly handle a freeway onramp. Tread wear life versus grip seems pretty decent, they've still got good depth a couple years into owning them and even with my STI swap under full acceleration I've never managed to get them to really break loose except in the rain.

Posted by: mgphoto Apr 12 2019, 07:11 PM

https://simpletire.com/dunlop-p195-65r15-dp19515-tires?stmodel=sp-sport-600&stcategory=summer&sttype=passenger&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjfmhxeGb1wIVx4J-Ch19jQphEAQYDSABEgKvGfD_BwE

Posted by: Amphicar770 Apr 12 2019, 07:44 PM

Why all the mystery?

Posted by: Big Len Apr 12 2019, 07:54 PM

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 12 2019, 09:16 PM

Sorry, just that it isn't a brand that has ever come up here




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Posted by: sithot Apr 13 2019, 05:31 AM

When cost isn't a consideration and "stick" is:

AVON FIA Rally-CR6ZZ-DOT
175/15
185/15

Posted by: Big Len Apr 13 2019, 06:03 AM

They seem to have good, but limited, reviews. But I don't think it would be enough to convince me to buy a Chinese tire.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 13 2019, 10:21 AM

They are actually made in Thailand

I learned my lesson on a 2014 Dodge Dart GT I was leasing.

The factory Yokohama tires (that I never liked) weren't going to make it to the end of the lease. So I put on some cheap Chinese tires from Pep Boys that had good reviews. They ended being far superior than the OEM tires.

So I don't blame you for you skepticism, but have reasonable expectations for these tires. In Asia, several American and European companies OEM this brand

Posted by: Big Len Apr 13 2019, 11:41 AM

You mentioned Yokohama's being an OEM tire on your Dart that you never liked, yet use that argument as a reason to justify your purchase. And being made in China or Thailand makes little consequence to me. Tires are pretty damn important to a car like ours and without a lot of member opinions, yes, I would be skeptical, especially at a very low price point. But I wish you luck with them and maybe in a few months of driving in different conditions, you can provide us with your review.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 15 2019, 08:20 AM

Out of curiosity, where were everyone's current tires made?

My Goodyear GT's were made in Chile....

they have been very good tires, but discontinued with a replacement that looks more all season than performance

Posted by: bbrock Apr 15 2019, 08:26 AM

Tire Rack listed the country of origin for my Firehawk AS tires as US, but the ones I bought from the local Firestone dealer are stamped "made in Vietnam."

Posted by: Amphicar770 Apr 15 2019, 02:36 PM

They may be decent but should you need to sell car, off brand tires are sometimes a red flag indicating less than premium maintenance. But hey, the more options the better so thanks for sharing.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 15 2019, 03:51 PM

I agree and I’m not selling it, but they really aren’t “rebranded” or “off brand” anymore than Yokohama or Nitto were when you first heard of them a couple of decades ago

Posted by: GeorgeRud Apr 15 2019, 08:16 PM

The selection is even worse for the standard 14” Fuchs as delivered on the 914-6. The Vredestein Sportrack is the only tire in 195/65-14 that Tire Rack lists. Has anyone used these?

Posted by: mark04usa Apr 15 2019, 08:55 PM

I'm running Pirelli P4 Four Seasons+ 195/65 on my DD 914. They are made in Brazil. Perfectly cromulent street tires so far. Only problem is getting a good wheel balance with lug centric setup. I got them at Sears about a year and 3,000 miles ago, likely my last Sears purchase...

Posted by: Cal Apr 15 2019, 09:18 PM

I recently installed the 185/70/15 Vredestein Sprint Classics....they're made in Holland.
Period correct size with a nice vintage style/appearance....they're also reasonably priced.




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Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 16 2019, 11:54 AM

I had the original Vredestein Sprint, probably in this same size, on my primer and rust 69 Karmann Ghia in the early eighties and loved them

My friend's father like them too and told me they were worth more than the car

This time around I want something with a meatier look, modern tread, and rounded shoulders that wasn't a minivan/econobox/energy saver tire

I never really liked the square shoulder on the Goodyear GT's I have, but would have lived with it for sticky summer tires

Speaking of sticky summer tires, I would have spent >$100/tire if I could find them, but they just doesn't seem to exist any longer in this size, so they had to have a reasonable price as well

One of the links above was for a Vredestein that was V rated that I wish I had found and inquired about (you have to request a quote), but if you have to ask the price....Actually maybe I will just to see what it is

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 16 2019, 12:09 PM

i requested a quote, but searching around it looks like the Vredestein Sportrac 5 V is NLA (which explains why it wasn't on my radar)

EDIT: got a quick response - $99 each includes shipping and there are only 7 in the US and none in transit

Posted by: Biggles Apr 16 2019, 02:50 PM

I use Falken tyres (Japanese) and they are very good (and look unassuming / bit more 'in period', on the wheel ). Not in a 195 tread, but i'm going to go to those on the front for a bit lighter steering, and retain 225's on the rear.
The model number is even ZE914 - it was meant to be !!

Posted by: raynekat Apr 16 2019, 03:24 PM

Pirelli P6000 in this size.....but spendy.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 17 2019, 07:00 AM

way too spendy and not great ratings/reviews

Posted by: RolinkHaus Apr 17 2019, 11:54 AM

195/55/15 vs 205/60/15

Posted by: dflesburg Apr 17 2019, 11:59 AM

We use 205 60 15 they work well

Posted by: Dougal Cawley Apr 18 2019, 08:27 AM

Oo!

why wouldn't you fit the good stuff

There are plenty of excellent options on here https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-car-tyres/porsche/914.html#page=1

And if you want to get silly there is also Pirelli P7 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirelli-collezione/cinturato-p7.html

Or Michelin TB15 https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/tb15.html

At least with these tyres you will fit a carcass that is designed to be fitted to acar like yours and will therefore handle better.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 18 2019, 09:31 AM

Some of those tires are great for the concours guys, which most of us are not

I disagree that they are the "good stuff" or that they will make my car "handle better" than modern tires - YMMV

The idea for this thread (though obviously I have little control of the direction it takes) is to hone in on the available options in a 195/65R15 as they are a preferred size for many that maximizes the amount of rubber on the road, while also not overly affecting gearing or speedometer accuracy, and with a sufficiently tall sidewall to not look out of place on a 914 - that's it!

There are plenty of other threads that discuss the merits of any tire that will fit under the fender that already include "classic tires"

Posted by: Dougal Cawley Apr 18 2019, 11:02 AM

Sorry, but that is where you are wrong. Your car will handle better on a period 165HR15 or at a stretch a period 185/70VR15 than it will on a 195/65R15. That is just a fact.

Yep a wider more modern tyre will give you greater grip in a straight line than a 165R15. but in the corners it won't unless you modify the car to suit. these cars aren't set up for modern low profile square shouldered tyres unless you lower them, add adverse camber and stiffen the springs etc.

but then you aren't making them handle better quite the opposite, but you are arguably giving them greater road holding which is different. but they won't be anywhere near as nice to drive.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 18 2019, 11:16 AM

No offense but we will have to agree to disagree - the thread is still about 195/65R15 so unless you offer one.....

Posted by: scott_in_nh Apr 18 2019, 11:31 AM

I'll add I don't completely disagree with you, but on a modest width tire like a 195 I do

Also most guys do some level of upgrades to the suspension - I have a factory front swaybar, 140 lbs. springs in the back and koni's all around

The handling improvement from stock skinny tires and no swaybars couldn't be more dramatic for such simple changes (and I'm not talking about just grip)

Now back to 195/65's.....

Posted by: rhodyguy Apr 18 2019, 11:40 AM

ZEXIUS 326Xi 195/60 15. "DO NOT MOUNT ON 5.5 INCH RIM" is in the safety warning on the side of the tire. I can see where ignoring that might be an argument for voiding the warrantee/garentee. 40k all season 185/65-15 can be found at reasonable prices. Plenty of tire for a car driven in a reasonable fashion on the street.

Posted by: scott_in_nh Oct 30 2019, 02:39 PM

So I finally got around to mounting the tires and getting the car off of jack stands.

I haven't driven on them yet, but they have the more period correct rounded shoulder while still being a modern tire.




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Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 30 2019, 07:15 PM

^ Sorry, but that's disinformation.

I've tried my 914 on so many different tires over the last 30 years that I probably couldn't list them if I tried. I've also been evaluating cars as part of my work for 25~ years on both road and track.

The idea that a 914 will handle "better" on 165R15s or 185/70R15s runs counter to so many examples from trusted sources—from Ginther and Johnson in 1970 forward through decades of autocrossers and other 914 tinkerers—that the assertions above are frankly preposterous. You can say a 914 on period 165s or 1985s will handle more "correct" or more "period correct" or "as intended" (and I'd agree), but better? I'm not so sure there, and I think an argument can easily be made that the 914 chassis was well ahead of the tire technology of its time. In other words, it was ready to employ better tires than were available at the time—and uses them even better with some very minor tweaks (dampers that most cars have since been upgraded to, lower ride height that many 914s now sit at, alignment tweaks, etc—which you do mention).

The best my 914 ever handled was probably on 205/60R15 A-008R TU tires with stiff sidewalls, rounded shoulders, and beautifully predictable breakaway. Downside was too little tire life from the R-compounds of that era—would have loved to try AVS intermediates on a 914, as they were brilliant on other cars I had, including a 911 SC. Next best was probably a 205/55R15 street tire from BFG (Comp T/A 3, iirc), which had a very rounded shoulder. One thing we will agree on is the "square shoulder" of some modern performance tires, and a set of Yoko AVS ES100s with super square shoulders weren't for me, and probably played a part in my desire for something more "age appropriate." So I switched to Vred Sprint Classic 185/70s and loved the ride and delicate steering response—but that was about it. I found the car (a lot) less fun, and ended up giving the Vreds away after 1000~ miles. I'm on Avon CR6ZZ now, and they're okay (wish I had gone softest compound rather than hardest since I'll time them out rather than wear them out), but for me the apex of period "right" and performance came in the 1980s and 1990s with 195/65R15 and 205/60R15 tires such as Yokohama's A-008 and AVSi. Next best was probably Falken's Azenis tires in similar sizing, and then some of the 205/55s.

Have been tempted to try BFG Comp T/As in 205/60R15, but can't quite get over the perception (wrong or right) that they're muscle car tires.

Tires for the 914 are either super easy or very tricky. For some, period tires like the CN36 or XZX/XWX are the only way to fly. I respect that. For others, and all-season is just fine. I respect that, too. For still others, max (or modern) performance from a 205/50, 205/55, or something like that is the way to go. I get that, too. Then there's the rest of us, who are still looking for that Goldilocks 914 tire. I've been looking for it since the demise of the A-008…

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Oct 30 2019, 07:16 PM

Those look nice! Will be very curious to hear your thoughts...

Posted by: mepstein Oct 30 2019, 07:48 PM

I had the same size A008's on my car mounted to 2.0 Fuchs. Awesome ride.

One day my dad followed me in his Corvette into my favorite decreasing radius off ramp. I came in at 2x the posted speed, kept my foot on the gas and never slowed down. He backed way off and told me he thought I was going to lose it at that speed. The car stuck like velcro and I had a big grin on my face when he caught up to me. I was still a teenager but I had been racing my bike for years so 4 sticky tires felt like cheating.

Back in the day, we raced on narrow 21-23mm tires. Now racers ride 25-28mm tires. They are faster on the straight and in the turns. Wider is Better.