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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ An original paint survivor or a perfect repainted car?

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 07:32 AM

I have a 73 2.0L with 100% original paint.
The original silver clear coat failed long ago on all horizontal surfaces.
The vertical surfaces still have the original clear coat.

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Because of the failure, I know with absolute certainty that this car has never been hit, never been rusted, repaired or repainted on any panel.
The front and rear trunks along with the rockers and interior are all original and near perfect.

Cars are only original once.
They can be repainted and/or restored anytime... and while I would love the paint to be perfect, there is a certain appeal to having an original paint, unmolested, unrestored survivor... especially a 73 2.0L.

Question for you...
What would you rather have?
An original paint unrestored survivor or a perfect repainted car... and why?

Posted by: BK911 Apr 15 2019, 07:51 AM

Original paint survivor.
Only original once.

Posted by: mepstein Apr 15 2019, 07:53 AM

Pretty paint.
But it's up to you. What's going to make you happy when you open your garage door and see your car?

Posted by: mgphoto Apr 15 2019, 08:09 AM

Don’t remember any 914 factory paint as being “2 stage” ie: color and clear coat.
There were several different “special” colors like silver metallic LKL 96 D from 1972 model year.

As for condition it’s what you prefer, highest value will also be best condition lowest miles and provenance can play a part.

The real value, I believe, is the driving experience.

Posted by: Coondog Apr 15 2019, 08:10 AM

Silver Metallic. Paint code L96D. I don’t think clear coat was used in the 70s. confused24.gif

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 15 2019, 08:10 AM

Kind of depends on the rest of the car for me. But as clean as it looks, I would likely have the exterior shot assuming the inners are all looking nice. If not, I would shoot the entire car correctly to make it like new. As you already know, that car is only going to increase in value. beerchug.gif

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 08:18 AM

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Posted by: bbrock Apr 15 2019, 08:18 AM

Yes, the metallics were clear coated even back in the 70s. They even came with a sticker indicating such and there is a factory service bulletin describing how to repair the 2-stage metallic paints.

As to the original question:. Original paint would be my preference but yours has probably crossed the line for my personal preference.

Posted by: young55961 Apr 15 2019, 08:19 AM

Keep the original unless you want complete restoration.

1. The Bumper, rubber, seal, interior, they will look old and fade after new paint.
2. Are you going to keep the car at home all the time. You will be worry every time when you driving it or when it parked.

If you have limited budget spent it on the mechanic.

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 08:24 AM

Previous 2-Stage clear coat discussion...

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=302088

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 09:28 AM

This is a 74 Limited Edition that I restored from a bare metal respray (sold in 2010). It even had the original limited edition spoiler with the factory part number on the back.

My silver car gets as many if not more positive comments as I received on the LE. I think the Porsche purists on the street and at shows see it for what it is... a survivor.

The silver car was stored for 21 years (1993 to 2014)... a true barn find.

I sold the LE because it was just too perfect... it was nice to show but worrying about dings and rock chips took all the joy out of driving it. One of the benefits of having a survivor status car is I don't have to worry about driving it or parking it... I can park it anywhere.

It would be nice to have nice paint... but there is a cost for that both in $$$ and driving enjoyment.

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Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 15 2019, 10:17 AM

Do some research, ask a pro and see if you can clear coat it,
Wash then use wax and grease remover, mask, light scrubbing with 800g scotch bright pad and clear it.
You might still see it a bit, but it should blend in.

Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 15 2019, 10:17 AM

dp

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 15 2019, 10:29 AM

There is a possibility that a really good resto/paint shop could carefully remove the failed clear coat & respray it clear coat only, but the cost would probably be as much as a full-on repaint, results may or may not look good enough to be worthwhile, etc.

Your use of the car will also lead you to an answer -
DD, leave as is, or respray;
show in Preservation/Unrestored class - remediate the paint & HD waxing with Carnuba or polymer waxes to preserve the now unprotected metallic paint;
show queen or top dollar resale - probably a full on resto of everything

Yes, the metallics were 2 stage color-clear even back then, & there was a Porsche repaint SB for it, as noted above.

In fact my 73 2L has had 3 - yes THREE - resprays in metallics - 1st was pre-75 from the original dealer trying to get the car sold from the factory L80E & then Sahara Beige (both single stage non-metallic & then the 72 MY Gold, then I did 75-76 MYs Copper Metallic in 1976, then the 76 MY 930's Anthracite Gray Metallic in 1980. All were done by a Porsche-Audi dealer or Indy Paint Shop per the Porsche specs/TSB.

So this one being with failing clear coat may or may not be the actual factory paint in part or overall, just because it's peeling off the topside surfaces. And any early respray would've aged by now 44-50+/- years later, just as would the factory paint (sooner if not done properly).

It too could've had accident repairs, so you'll have to dig deeper that that to verify if there's been any repairs/repainting (spot or whole). You should also check all documentation & records for the car, & look at all backside surfaces for evidnece of bodywork (hammer & dolly work, etc.).

Then also do the ole magnet wrapped in a thin cloth & rubbed over every inch of the body to find any bondo when the magnet looses magnetism (those shiny eyeglass cleaning cloths works well). Use a relatively weak fridge magnet too, so it will drop off on even thin coats of bondo.

Documents dont'l lie, & the TSB below is from Jeff Bowlsby's website:

Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image Attached Image

.

Yes Virginia, they had clear coat paints back in the Dinosaur ages of the 1960s & 1970s, as well as early polyurethane paints - the latter I know because my Dad got the patents for Koppers for both urethane varnishes & paints in the early 1960s (before we moved to San Diego in 1963). So you may even see some 1960's classics shot in urethane.

beerchug.gif
Tom
///////

Posted by: johnhora Apr 15 2019, 11:34 AM

QUOTE(jagalyn @ Apr 15 2019, 08:28 AM) *

This is a 74 Limited Edition that I restored from a bare metal respray (sold in 2010). It even had the original limited edition spoiler with the factory part number on the back.

My silver car gets as many if not more positive comments as I received on the LE. I think the Porsche purists on the street and at shows see it for what it is... a survivor.

The silver car was stored for 21 years (1993 to 2014)... a true barn find.

I sold the LE because it was just too perfect... it was nice to show but worrying about dings and rock chips took all the joy out of driving it. One of the benefits of having a survivor status car is I don't have to worry about driving it or parking it... I can park it anywhere.

It would be nice to have nice paint... but there is a cost for that both in $$$ and driving enjoyment.

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You have said it all especially in line #4....leave it alone and drive it!

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Apr 15 2019, 11:36 AM

your original paint survivor any day, but then an extra 914 perfectly repainted to drive



QUOTE(jagalyn @ Apr 15 2019, 06:32 AM) *

I have a 73 2.0L with 100% original paint.
The original silver clear coat failed long ago on all horizontal surfaces.
The vertical surfaces still have the original clear coat.

[attachmentid=693636]

[attachmentid=693635]

Because of the failure, I know with absolute certainty that this car has never been hit, never been rusted, repaired or repainted on any panel.
The front and rear trunks along with the rockers and interior are all original and near perfect.

Cars are only original once.
They can be repainted and/or restored anytime... and while I would love the paint to be perfect, there is a certain appeal to having an original paint, unmolested, unrestored survivor... especially a 73 2.0L.

[attachmentid=693634]

Question for you...
What would you rather have?
An original paint unrestored survivor or a perfect repainted car... and why?


Posted by: Cal Apr 15 2019, 11:37 AM

I like original paint cars but this one looks a little rough. Clear coat failures were common back in the day and some cars were repainted by the dealers. My '74 2.0L is the same silver metallic L96D color as yours and the exterior was repainted early on in its life due to a failing clear coat.






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Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 12:16 PM

This 914 has never been repainted. It is 100% original paint.

The camera lens and angle of the sun makes it seem much more apparent than it is in real life...

It can be painted anytime, but is only original paint once.

I'm keeping it with original paint but was wondering what others would do.
Thanks for the feedback.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Apr 15 2019, 01:16 PM

I'd do a really good deep clean and wax over it plus a car cover if it's outside alot.

There is a ton of value in original paint.

Posted by: 914_7T3 Apr 15 2019, 01:31 PM

Preservation before restoration.

Posted by: mb911 Apr 15 2019, 02:13 PM

I would just reclear it.. It's completely doable.. It's a wet sand and clear process.. Best of both worlds.

Posted by: Jamie Apr 15 2019, 06:32 PM

QUOTE(mb911 @ Apr 15 2019, 12:13 PM) *

I would just reclear it.. It's completely doable.. It's a wet sand and clear process.. Best of both worlds.


I know my original owner Dad never waxed the L99A Delphi Green metallic on my 73, and after the clearcoat began peeling I had the exterior stripped to metal and resprayed about 4 yrs. ago. My paint/body guy was an artist, used original paint from D-land, and the match is perfect with other original painted areas. I cringe when I see what y'all are paying out there on the left coast, I was well pleased with my $3000 outcome. He did remove all body parts that could be taken off, lights, trunks, doors,etc. and rubber in many cases. I did the valances and long covers, and I hate to see body rubber parts with overspray. So I vote for maintaining the parts that can be original paint, and good matching repaint of the damaged paint that shows. Now my future problem for any body work/paint needed on my cars is questionable since he has retired.aktion035.gif

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 15 2019, 07:02 PM

I tried a wax on the the paint as suggested above... but was surprised when I waxed the clear coat.

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Posted by: thelogo Apr 16 2019, 04:57 AM

QUOTE(jagalyn @ Apr 15 2019, 06:02 PM) *

I tried a wax on the the paint as suggested above... but was surprised when I waxed the clear coat.

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You should be a little more specific
Because i wax doesn't necessarily imply you used
52 dollar can of carnuba or maguires

It makes a difference i think

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 16 2019, 07:55 AM

QUOTE(914_7T3 @ Apr 15 2019, 11:31 AM) *

Preservation before restoration.


I agree. Preservation before restoration. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think she's beautiful. smile.gif

Posted by: Unobtanium-inc Apr 16 2019, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(Mark Henry @ Apr 15 2019, 08:17 AM) *

Do some research, ask a pro and see if you can clear coat it,
Wash then use wax and grease remover, mask, light scrubbing with 800g scotch bright pad and clear it.
You might still see it a bit, but it should blend in.

I would go with this idea, if you can save the original paint do that. I've seen guys do things like wet sand a complete car to save the paint.

Posted by: Chris914n6 Apr 16 2019, 08:57 AM

^^ They call it "paint correction"

Clay rub, compound, polish, wax. In most cases it looks better than factory. I'm about to do it to an 05 Beetle that spent it's life in the sun. If I have time before WRC I'll do my 914 with an 80s respray.

Posted by: jfort Apr 16 2019, 09:01 AM

At Mosport Vintage Grand Prix last spring there was a guy in the tarmac next to us with an old silver 911 with paint that looked like yours. It was very cool to see that car being used.

Posted by: Steve Apr 16 2019, 10:00 AM

It's whatever makes you happy, but cost does come into play and priority. My silver 914 had an 1/8" thick of crappy repaints. The previous owner also installed steel flairs and had the body shop just paint the flairs. The car was diamond silver metalic and the flairs were Carrera GT silver. My kids called the car "50 shades of Gray". I just spent $15k taking the car to bare metal and repainting the car Alaska Blue Metalic.
Bottom line... Whatever makes you happy!! It's your car.

Posted by: JOEPROPER Apr 16 2019, 11:14 AM

Prep it for another coat of clear.

Posted by: Mikey914 Apr 16 2019, 02:11 PM

You can wet sand and polish to be reshot with clear. Best of both worlds. Not really hard but I’d have it reshot in a professional booth. As there’s not base work other than a careful wet sanding it might not be too bad to have it done professionally.

Worth checking it out biggrin.gif

Posted by: raynekat Apr 17 2019, 05:34 PM

I'll take the new paint everyday. They've made a little bit of progress in paint technology over the past 50 years, so the newer paints are hands down better and last longer, look better.

Posted by: twistedstang Apr 19 2019, 08:47 AM

Original all day long. Pretty new paint can hide ugly new bodywork

Posted by: brownaar Apr 19 2019, 01:59 PM

Seems to me since this was a known problem that Porsche issued a service bulletin for, fixing the clear coat would be acceptable.
Aaron

Posted by: Amphicar770 Apr 20 2019, 06:23 AM

Original paint unless it is totally trashed. For any repaint, I would want to see lots of pics of the bodywork underneath before it hit the spray booth. "Sell me red paint" can hide a lot of sins.

Posted by: orthobiz Apr 21 2019, 12:52 PM

QUOTE(Amphicar770 @ Apr 20 2019, 08:23 AM) *

Original paint unless it is totally trashed. For any repaint, I would want to see lots of pics of the bodywork underneath before it hit the spray booth. "Sell me red paint" can hide a lot of sins.


Resale Red

Paul

Posted by: orthobiz Apr 21 2019, 12:54 PM

I have two survivors. One is light ivory and the other is phoenix red. I’m just glad they are not metallic!

Paul

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Apr 21 2019, 03:20 PM

To each their own.

Prefer original paint, but there is a perverse/reverse logic to original paint when it comes to use: It's actually riskier to use a car in original paint than one that's been restored. It's only original once...where it can be restored multiple times.

Like I said, I prefer original paint...but super original cars have their downsides when it comes to risk factors. Then again, life is too short either way. "Drive the cars" remains the best strategy…

Posted by: Fatarse Apr 26 2019, 01:36 PM

Great thread. How does preservation vs restoration of paint affect the value of these cars? I also have what looks to be a 73 2.0 survivor, but paint is in significantly rougher shape. No rust, but visible dings throughout the paint and horrible touch up to the Alaska Blue.

Steve - who did you go with for your Alaska Blue Metallic repaint?

Posted by: Larmo63 Apr 26 2019, 05:57 PM

People in SoCal who know me and my black /6 conversion probably wonder why I don't do more to make the car's exterior better.

I like the fact that it shows it's scars and I don't really care about road rash.

I may do something someday, but for now, it's a driver.

I keep the windows on it spotless.

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 26 2019, 06:14 PM

QUOTE(Larmo63 @ Apr 26 2019, 03:57 PM) *

I like the fact that it shows it's scars.

I keep the windows on it spotless.


I like both of these statements.

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Apr 26 2019, 07:08 PM

Original paint is honest paint.

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 26 2019, 09:00 PM

Factory metal. Factory welds. Factory seams. Factory body Shultz. Factory paint. Factory stickers.

My silver car is not perfect but I know what I have...

That’s what makes it perfect.

And the fact that it’s a ‘73 2 liter... makes it even more perfect.

Posted by: jagalyn Apr 27 2019, 07:17 AM

Original Stickers... some not so great condition but they are still there after 46 years and still original.
Not a show car... but an unmolested/unrestored survivor.

Original Trunk Sticker
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Original Tire Pressure Sticker
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Engine Sticker
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Posted by: jagalyn Apr 27 2019, 07:28 AM

More...

Original Paint Code in Drivers Door Jamb
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Factory Windshield Sticker
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Not Factory... but some original oil change stickers
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Posted by: jagalyn Apr 27 2019, 07:38 AM

Engine Compartment Sticker
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Door Jamb
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