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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ non start issue--solved the problem
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 10:45 AM
With the help of Scot Paton, I replaced the ignition switch on my '74. After everything was put back together, I tried it, but still nothing from the starter. But for the first time ever, the high pitched obnoxious buzz from under the seat when you simply put the key in the ignition. When I bought the car, it had aftermarket seats in, along with five point harnesses, and the PO (or someone before him) had joined those two big yellow wires to disable the seat belt issue. Today I cut off the tape to make sure the connection was tight, and as you can see, it is. When the key is inserted into the ignition, the loud noise comes from that small relay towards the bottom of the photo. I removed it, no noise, but still no start. Anyone have an idea as to why this noise would start up after replacing the ignition switch, and better yet, how to get it to start? TIA. Image is turned 90 degrees to the top.
A bit embarrassed to admit it, but I installed a Bosch Hot Start Kit a few years back, and I thought that something might be malfunctioning on it. There is an inline fuse on it, the fuse was blown. Switched out the fuse, and it started right up. Don't know why it happened, but will keep tabs on it. At least she is running again.
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Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 5 2019, 11:47 AM
The small relay is the "your door is ajar" buzzer. That's its function, to buzz annoyingly. I removed mine years ago.
That yellow splice looks ugly. Can you verify that you are getting +12V at the starter end of the wire when you turn the key to "start"?
--DD
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 12:19 PM
The small relay is the "your door is ajar" buzzer. That's its function, to buzz annoyingly. I removed mine years ago.
That yellow splice looks ugly. Can you verify that you are getting +12V at the starter end of the wire when you turn the key to "start"?
--DD
I will check at the starter. Any idea why that buzzer would suddenly start up?
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 12:34 PM
The small relay is the "your door is ajar" buzzer. That's its function, to buzz annoyingly. I removed mine years ago.
That yellow splice looks ugly. Can you verify that you are getting +12V at the starter end of the wire when you turn the key to "start"?
--DD
I will check at the starter. Any idea why that buzzer would suddenly start up?
I jumped from the starter (battery wire) to the yellow wire and the starter engages. Does that show that I'm getting 12V?
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 01:03 PM
The small relay is the "your door is ajar" buzzer. That's its function, to buzz annoyingly. I removed mine years ago.
That yellow splice looks ugly. Can you verify that you are getting +12V at the starter end of the wire when you turn the key to "start"?
--DD
I will check at the starter. Any idea why that buzzer would suddenly start up?
OK, I found a voltmeter. Do I hold the positive lead to the power wire and the black in on the body of the starter? Sorry, such a noob.
Posted by: porschetub Jun 5 2019, 02:57 PM
The contacts in the buzzer relay may have stuck up so it runs all the time,ditch the relays anyway,mine were gone when I got the car but the 2 large yellow wires had not been bridged.
As DD mentioned make the joint between the large yellow wires is clean and tidy then put some heatshrink over it,it must be a good joint and well insulated.
You can also meter the wire for 12volts from there back to the solenoid on the starter just to be sure.
I'am unsure what the yellow duraseal connector on those smaller wires is for ,hopefully it cause no issues.
Posted by: Dave_Darling Jun 5 2019, 03:53 PM
With a voltmeter, poke one lead (often the red) into the connector of the yellow wire. Poke the other one into a ground like any bare non-rusted metal of the chassis. When the key is in the "start" position, you should see about 12V. When the key is in any other position, you should see 0V, or whatever reading you get when there is no electrical connection between the red and black probes.
--DD
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 04:44 PM
With a voltmeter, poke one lead (often the red) into the connector of the yellow wire. Poke the other one into a ground like any bare non-rusted metal of the chassis. When the key is in the "start" position, you should see about 12V. When the key is in any other position, you should see 0V, or whatever reading you get when there is no electrical connection between the red and black probes.
--DD
Thanks so much. I will try that tomorrow.
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jun 5 2019, 06:15 PM
That yellow wire under the seat is the same as on the starter. You can measure the voltage there if you want. Easier than under the car. Under the car is better but the yellow wire is a good starting point. I have heard there a lot of bad new ignition switches out there. Don't rule it out because you just installed it
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 06:20 PM
That yellow wire under the seat is the same as on the starter. You can measure the voltage there if you want. Easier than under the car. Under the car is better but the yellow wire is a good starting point. I have heard there a lot of bad new ignition switches out there. Don't rule it out because you just installed it
Thanks!
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 5 2019, 06:25 PM
With a voltmeter, poke one lead (often the red) into the connector of the yellow wire. Poke the other one into a ground like any bare non-rusted metal of the chassis.
--DD
Just a finer point on the word "poke". Good practice is to not jamb the DMM probes into connectors (including simple spade connectors like on 914's). This can bend open the connector and create looseness. "touch" the probe to the connector
914's spade connectors are easily fixed -- those on modern vehicles (Molex, Weatherpack, etc.) are a royal PITA to fix once the terminals have been spread by aggressive DMM probing. Don't ask me how I know this
]
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 5 2019, 06:39 PM
With a voltmeter, poke one lead (often the red) into the connector of the yellow wire. Poke the other one into a ground like any bare non-rusted metal of the chassis.
--DD
Just a finer point on the word "poke". Good practice is to not jamb the DMM probes into connectors (including simple spade connectors like on 914's). This can bend open the connector and create looseness. "touch" the probe to the connector
914's spade connectors are easily fixed -- those on modern vehicles (Molex, Weatherpack, etc.) are a royal PITA to fix once the terminals have been spread by aggressive DMM probing. Don't ask me how I know this
]Thanks for the tip!
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 6 2019, 01:44 PM
With a voltmeter, poke one lead (often the red) into the connector of the yellow wire. Poke the other one into a ground like any bare non-rusted metal of the chassis. When the key is in the "start" position, you should see about 12V. When the key is in any other position, you should see 0V, or whatever reading you get when there is no electrical connection between the red and black probes.
--DD
Thanks so much. I will try that tomorrow.
I tried this test, and with the key in the "on" position, got 0V. With the key in the 'start" position, I came up with just under 12V. As a point of reference, I connected it to the battery and got just over 12V. So what does this tell me?
Posted by: Superhawk996 Jun 6 2019, 02:00 PM
Yellow wire voltage is behaving properly. That yellow wire is the starter solenoid control. You should also check for the same 12v down at the starter. Voltage should be the same as what you see up in the passenger compartment.
I’m a bit lot on what problem you’re trying to solve. The no start? The constant buzzing? Maybe both?
On the no start part, see my post on importance of verifying ground connections in order for the starter to function
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=338538
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 6 2019, 03:01 PM
Yellow wire voltage is behaving properly. That yellow wire is the starter solenoid control. You should also check for the same 12v down at the starter. Voltage should be the same as what you see up in the passenger compartment.
I’m a bit lot on what problem you’re trying to solve. The no start? The constant buzzing? Maybe both?
On the no start part, see my post on importance of verifying ground connections in order for the starter to function
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=338538
With some help, the buzzing issue is gone. Turning the key still won't engage the starter.
Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jun 6 2019, 03:04 PM
Short the +12 on the starter to the yellow wire (in neutral with wheels blocked). Does the starter engage?
Posted by: porschetub Jun 7 2019, 03:17 PM
Yes by all means try jumping the starter,if it cranks you can rule out a starter fault.
I mentioned in one reply to test the yellow wire from inside the car back to the starter for 12v power so you know that's good.
You can remove the positive + lead from the battery and clean up all the connections @ the starter so you have good contact and full voltage.
Also make sure you have a good earth from the gearbox to the body.
I made up a remote starter switch some years ago it is useful for testing and setting timing marks.
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 7 2019, 03:58 PM
Look for a stray small brown wire. It should attach directly to the chassis.
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 7 2019, 04:03 PM
Look for a stray small brown wire. It should attach directly to the chassis.
Thanks. Any idea on location? Cabin? Engine compartment.
Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 7 2019, 04:18 PM
Somewhere in the nest of wires pictured. It's a short wire. I'd clean the area up, wipe down wires, before I went any further. If nothing else it will make the task more pleasant.
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 8 2019, 06:06 AM
Somewhere in the nest of wires pictured. It's a short wire. I'd clean the area up, wipe down wires, before I went any further. If nothing else it will make the task more pleasant.
Thanks.
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 8 2019, 01:17 PM
Look for a stray small brown wire. It should attach directly to the chassis.
Thanks. Any idea on location? Cabin? Engine compartment.
I cleaned things up a bit, and found a small brown wire with a yellow stripe. I also found a small connector clip, and some other wires at the bottom of the pic that aren't attached to anything, plus some sets with push on plastic connectors, which were also unconnected.
Is that small brown wire the one you were talking about. I can't find anywhere that it should connect to.
Once again both pics should be rotated 90 degrees to the right. Sorry.
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Posted by: AvalonFal Jun 8 2019, 02:54 PM
This is the brown ground wire on my '74 2.0. It attaches to the body. When I disconnect, engine cranks but no start. 
Paul
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 8 2019, 03:01 PM
This is the brown ground wire on my '74 2.0. It attaches to the body. When I disconnect, engine cranks but no start.
Paul
Thanks for the visual. Where does the other end of the brown wire attach to?
Mine won't crank at all. You can hear the fuel pump, but nothing at all from the starter.
Posted by: cooper951 Jun 12 2019, 05:12 PM
A bit embarrassed to admit it, but I installed a Bosch Hot Start Kit a few years back, and I thought that something might be malfunctioning on it. There is an inline fuse on it, the fuse was blown. Switched out the fuse, and it started right up. Don't know why it happened, but will keep tabs on it. At least she is running again.
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