Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ No start
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 15 2019, 06:13 PM
1976. V8 Conversion, but the starter wiring is (near) stock.
It did this once in the past, and has done it again. Turn the key to the start position, hear a relay click under the dash, but the starter doesn't engage and spin. If I jump the big cable at the starter to the terminal on the solenoid that the brown wire is connected to, the starter spins and starts the car.
The last time it healed itself after the car sat for a couple of hours. It hasn't been that long now, but I need to find what the problem is and fix it.
I have jumpered around the original seat belt interconnect.
Ideas?
(BTW, electricity is magic to me so keep it simple 
)
Posted by: Rand Aug 15 2019, 08:05 PM
Likely the switch in the console. You already did a v8, just jerry rig it.
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 15 2019, 08:30 PM
Likely the switch in the console. You already did a v8, just jerry rig it.
Thanks, but not sure what you are describing. There was never a console in this car. What would the switch be for?
Posted by: lierofox Aug 16 2019, 03:00 AM
Likely the switch in the console. You already did a v8, just jerry rig it.
Thanks, but not sure what you are describing. There was never a console in this car. What would the switch be for?
I'm assuming they mean the keyswitch itself.
Do you still have the relay/regulator plate in the engine bay or did that get ditched with the conversion? The yellow starter wire passes through that on its way to the starter motor, so there's two possible connections there to check.
Posted by: Dominic Aug 16 2019, 07:19 AM
I just had this issue on a customers car. This is the fix that worked for me...Pop off the harness on the rear of the relay board, find the male pin that corresponds to the large yellow starter wire and take a very small screwdriver and open the pin up just a bit so you can get a better connection when you push the harness back onto the relay board.
Hope this works for you.
Posted by: 76-914 Aug 16 2019, 07:40 AM
It's the switch, starter or your not getting enough voltage to the starter solenoid. If it starts after whacking the starter with a hammer then it is sticking. Can you check the voltage at the yellow wire when the switch is turned? I assume you retained the stock 901 transmission. If so, have you done the Ford relay trick at the starter. You said that you hear a relay beneath the dash when the key is turned. Is there one there??? Shouldn't be and if you find a small square one is indeed in that circuit odds are it isn't passing enough current. Ask me how I know this. 
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 16 2019, 08:07 AM
Try the Ford solenoid mod, cheap, quick and easy, eliminates one of the usual suspects.
How to link in my signature below.
Posted by: ClayPerrine Aug 16 2019, 08:17 AM
Have you checked under the passenger seat to see if the seat belt interlock is still hooked up? They are notorious about causing no start problems.
To check:
1. Remove the passenger seat.
2. Look at the relays in the electrical connections.
3. Remove the fat yellow wire, and the fat yellow with a red tracer wire.
4. Splice them together.
I actually stripped all of that junk out of the harness in Frody. He doesn't have starting issues any more.
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 08:23 AM
I'm assuming they mean the keyswitch itself.
Do you still have the relay/regulator plate in the engine bay or did that get ditched with the conversion? The yellow starter wire passes through that on its way to the starter motor, so there's two possible connections there to check.
Yes. The relay plate/board is still there with working power and fuel pump relays in place. I'm doing the usual tricks to pick up an input for the alternator idiot light and a ground for the fuel pump.
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 08:23 AM
I just had this issue on a customers car. This is the fix that worked for me...Pop off the harness on the rear of the relay board, find the male pin that corresponds to the large yellow starter wire and take a very small screwdriver and open the pin up just a bit so you can get a better connection when you push the harness back onto the relay board.
Hope this works for you.
I'll do it and report back. Thanks!
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 08:26 AM
It's the switch, starter or your not getting enough voltage to the starter solenoid. If it starts after whacking the starter with a hammer then it is sticking. Can you check the voltage at the yellow wire when the switch is turned? I assume you retained the stock 901 transmission. If so, have you done the Ford relay trick at the starter. You said that you hear a relay beneath the dash when the key is turned. Is there one there??? Shouldn't be and if you find a small square one is indeed in that circuit odds are it isn't passing enough current. Ask me how I know this.
The starter will spin and start the car if I cross the big + wire at the starter with the terminal on the solenoid that the trigger wire attaches to, so the starter is good. Voltage on the trigger wire at the starter is 0 when I turn the key. Stock 901 trans. Aftermarket high torque gear reduction starter.
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 08:31 AM
Have you checked under the passenger seat to see if the seat belt interlock is still hooked up? They are notorious about causing no start problems.
To check:
1. Remove the passenger seat.
2. Look at the relays in the electrical connections.
3. Remove the fat yellow wire, and the fat yellow with a red tracer wire.
4. Splice them together.
I actually stripped all of that junk out of the harness in Frody. He doesn't have starting issues any more.
I also removed all that junk including the brackets that mounted it and spliced the yellow and yellow/red wires as part of the conversion.
I also Removed seat belt buzzer and key in buzzer systems and the two piece speedo cable and apparatus that powered the EGR/cat reminder lights.
Posted by: Chris H. Aug 16 2019, 08:49 AM
Sounds like it's most likely the switch in the steering column, because you should get 12+ volts on the trigger wire when you turn the key. The column switch SUCKS to change. You have to take the column out and apart. A telltale confirmation: sometimes if you wiggle the key a bit and try multiple times it will engage the starter eventually.
You could also add a starter button instead if you want since the replacement switches aren't that great either. Also a theft deterrent.
Here's a diagram someone else on the site drew a while ago...
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 09:02 AM
You could also add a starter button instead if you want since the replacement switches aren't that great either. Also a theft deterrent.
Thanks. I have thought about doing that....but only if all else fails. I have tried jiggling the key. No joy. I'm hoping Dominic's fix works. If not, I will probably start tracing from the key switch to the starter to hopefully find out where the current flow stops. Since I can hear that relay clicking when I turn the key to the start position, it seems like the ignition switch may not be the issue.
Posted by: lierofox Aug 16 2019, 10:05 AM
Thanks. I have thought about doing that....but only if all else fails. I have tried jiggling the key. No joy. I'm hoping Dominic's fix works. If not, I will probably start tracing from the key switch to the starter to hopefully find out where the current flow stops. Since I can hear that relay clicking when I turn the key to the start position, it seems like the ignition switch may not be the issue.
Was there a relay added after the conversion? You mentioned in the first post that there was a sound under the dash and I kinda glanced over it, but I can't think of any relay that would be getting actuated under the dash that has to do with the starter circuit... It should just be fog light relay, headlight dimmer, turn signal/hazard relay, horn relay, and...I think the blower motor relay? (Though maybe what you're hearing is the sound of those turning off instead of on.)
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 01:33 PM
Was there a relay added after the conversion? You mentioned in the first post that there was a sound under the dash and I kinda glanced over it, but I can't think of any relay that would be getting actuated under the dash that has to do with the starter circuit... It should just be fog light relay, headlight dimmer, turn signal/hazard relay, horn relay, and...I think the blower motor relay? (Though maybe what you're hearing is the sound of those turning off instead of on.)
Yea, a definite under dash relay sounding click when the key is turned from "on" to the "start" position. I guess it could be relay(s) shutting down so full power goes to the starter motor. Normally not heard, of course with the starter whirring and the engine firing.
Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 16 2019, 01:45 PM
Success!
I first disconnected the rear connector on the relay panel going after Dominic's fix. With the connector disconnected, I put 12V to the female pin on the connector that is the starter trigger. Starter spun.
I reconnected that connector and disconnected the front connector. I put 12V to the male pin on the relay panel where the trigger came in to the panel and the starter spun. I then knew power was not getting to the relay panel, but if it did, the starter would work.
I figured the next connector upstream is the one where the yellow wire in from the key switch ties to the yellow/red wire out to the relay panel.
With the key turned to the "start" position I had 12V on the yellow wire coming in from the key switch.
Since I don't think there is another connector on the yellow/red wire before the relay panel, it had to be a fuzzy connection between the two (at least I hoped it was ). I replaced the connector with a crimped splice. That did it.
A big thanks to everyone, and especially Clay for the solution.
Posted by: Rand Aug 20 2019, 09:26 PM
THANK you for sharing the solution. 
So often these get left dead but it's super cool you followed up. Good on you. This will help others.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)