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Posted by: Indyheel Aug 17 2019, 08:27 PM

Hi Everyone,
I'm new to the 914 world and am looking at a '73. The car is from Colorado and was dry stored for 23 years. Car is relatively rust free with the exception of a small area by the drivers door sill. I've attached pics of the battery area. Would do you think?

Posted by: Porschef Aug 18 2019, 07:10 AM

Welcome. Post lots of pics and introduce yourself, you’ll get more responses and folks will be better able to answer questions. Looks like Olympic blue, nice.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Aug 18 2019, 07:27 AM

What he said. Looks like you might have a good car there, being a '73, but impossible to tell from 1 pic.

Posted by: thelogo Aug 18 2019, 07:38 AM

Checking here 1st is smart
But if you dont know 914 s . then please dont buy the first one you see . i looked at a dozen before pulling the trigger . buy the best you can afford too or best one you can find

Trying to save $ by getting someone else's basket case may seem smart at first but its a bad move

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 18 2019, 10:04 AM

Looks like someone torched out the floor of the battery tray for some reason...probably rust. Replacements are available.

IMHO, rust is the biggest factor when evaluating a 914 (or any unibody car) for purchase. There are some that are geniuses here for finding and repairing rust on these cars, but it takes a rotisserie, removal of all paint and undercoating, exceptional MIG welding skills, and the ability to fabricate the replacement panels that aren't reproduced.

One of the biggest rust problems on these cars (and an indicator of rust in other areas) is the area under and in front of the battery tray....affectionally known as the "hell hole". The drain hole there gets plugged then water (and maybe some battery acid) accumulates there. Same is true on the driver's side of the car to a lesser extent.

It would be important to remove at least one rocker panel to examine the longitudinals.

Others can give more areas to look at for rust. Check them all. A little rust you can see means a lot of rust you can't see.

I hope you found a relatively rust free one.

Posted by: rjames Aug 18 2019, 10:06 AM

The battery tray can easily be replaced. What does the rest of the car look like?

Also recommend bringing someone who knows those cars well to look at it in person.

Posted by: Indyheel Aug 18 2019, 10:12 AM

Thanks for the feedback so far. Here is a pic of the door sill area. Due to the size of the files, I'm being limited to I pic at a time. The fenders and front trunk area look great with only minor surface rust. There is some rust inside the back of the rear trunk floor with a couple of tiny holes (not the drainage holes).

The car smokes from oil dripping on the exhaust and the 1st gear synchro grinds when down shifting unless I bring the car to a complete stop. Assuming a worst case total engine rebuild along with a tranny overhaul and new clutch, what $ am I looking at spending?

Any other watch outs for a car that has been sitting so long (wiring/rubber) that could be major expense?

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 18 2019, 10:19 AM

Reduce the size of your pictures if you are posting them directly from your computer, or put them in an online photo album and link to them.

Posted by: bbrock Aug 18 2019, 10:20 AM

A couple thoughts from the jamb/sill pic. That is the driver's side which usually rusts more slowly than the passenger side. If you are seeing rust there, I would be suspicious there is more on the other side that you can't see.

As was already mentioned, your really need to have a look under the rocker covers to inspect the jack points and longs before you can really know the condition of the structure. The rust you see at the sill may have started below in the longitudinal or jack point. Only way to know is to pull the rocker covers.

And...

Posted by: Indyheel Aug 18 2019, 10:23 AM

Here is the underside of the drivers door sill. The other side actually looks pretty good.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=708784

Posted by: rjames Aug 18 2019, 10:35 AM

Unless you know how to weld or really want to learn, I’d walk away from this car.
Rust aside, if it needs a transmission rebuild and engine rebuild, you’re looking at $7k+ unless you are doing the work yourself.

Look for a better starting point.

Posted by: JawjaPorsche Aug 18 2019, 10:43 AM

There is a lot of rust you can’t see. I would check the rocker panels.

Posted by: Spoke Aug 18 2019, 11:36 AM

That metal looks gone. My guess is there's lots more rust underneath the rocker panels.

Having bought a piece of junk 914 close to me and another one hundreds of miles and 2 states away, and a 911 across the country, my advice would be to walk away from this car.

The best rust-free cars you'll find are where cars do not rust. Places like CA, NM, AZ, TX. Pool as much money as you can to buy the best 914 you can find somewhere in the country. Allot money for a plane ride and shipping back to your home if needed.

It's really tempting to buy a car right in front of you. One you can touch, sit in and drive. But if you'll be doing rust repairs for the next year, maybe one you can touch is not for you. Although if you like to weld and are good at it, a rusty 914 can be a nice project.

As I mentioned, my first 914 was purchased 5 miles from my house and was overpriced with lots of rust. My 2nd 914 was hundreds of miles away and had minimal rust. My 911 was purchased in Denver, CO. I flew to Denver, bought the car, and had it shipped back home to PA.

Take your time and find a nice 914 to build on. Look through the FS ads here. That's where I found my 2nd 914.

Good luck.

Posted by: Larmo63 Aug 18 2019, 11:37 AM

Walk away unless you have lots of patience and very good welding skills.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 11:56 AM

Run Forrest, Run . . . .

Posted by: poorsche914 Aug 18 2019, 12:03 PM

Perhaps more info and images will aid in guiding OP ... from the CL ad:

Great, rust free solid car. Recently tuned--New plugs, condenser, points. Fuel pump upgrade and new stainless lines to replace the old vinyl lines that could catch these on fire.
Purchased last year out of Colorado where is sat in dry storage for about 20 years. Last driven and tagged in 1996, but it runs great now with no smoke and a smooth idle.
Great project car to clean up the body or even keep in its original survivor patina. I have lots of parts from the previous owner including brakes, A/C, ignition parts, trim parts, new seat covers, fuel tank cleaner (not needed). The car is complete and just needs a little effort to get it into great shape.

Posted by: rjames Aug 18 2019, 12:06 PM

Owner has had it less than a year and is now trying to recoup his losses because of the amount of work it needs.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 12:35 PM

Quick things I see in the photos:
1) interior is roached. Budget $2K at least to make this decent driver quality. If you want it pristine, you'll be in for more like $5K.

2) Door jamb rust on driver side is a bit unusual. If you can see that there is easily in that spot, there is 20X more hidden around the vehicle that isn't easily seen. Insist that owner pull the passenger side outer rocker panel before buying.

3) Trunk hinge on passenger side above battery has been broken and has been poorly welded as the quick repair.

4) the rusted battery tray surely dumped acid laden water and acid onto the engine bay longitudinal. Hell Hole needs to be checked way more closely. Haven't seen a picuture of it yet down in the low corner at the firewall where the rust happens.

5) 1st gear Syncro is no the end of the world but likely that isn't all the trans needs.

6) fuel injection lines have standard worm clamp on them. This is a fire waiting to happen. These lines need proper clamps that don't cut into and extrude the rubber though them.

7) luggage rack add on virtually guarantees that you now have corrosion starting on the trunk. At a bare minimum, you now have holes.

8) Car has had A/C installed. There are multiple holes cut into this vehicle that are sources of corrosion and leakage. I know, my car had A/C installed and I'm working to fix the damage. All A/C installed of the era involved pure butchery!

9) where did all the center console gauges go?

And that is what I see in a 30 second rundown. I'm sure there is way more.

Previous advise stands. Consider this a learning exercise in how to inspect and buy a 914. You've come to the right place for expert advice. The guys on the forum will help protect you from yourself. Don't fall in love with this one.

Unless you can weld and do all work yourself this is a money pit.

Love that color. My first car started the same color. And like a dope I painted it red in the 80's -- what was I thinking. Changing it to red cost me thousands in speeding tickets!

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 18 2019, 01:30 PM

I've seen worse.

After a careful inspection (especially the hell hole, jack points, and under the rocker covers), and a compression or leak down test, you'll have a good idea of what you would have. Then you can make a decision based on the price and your skills.

It does look fairly complete. New seat covers are included. A carpet kit is cheap. The body isn't so beat up that you couldn't live with the originality for a while (or for ever).

If the rust isn't terminal and if you can weld...and if the motor is in good shape, it could be a candidate. Keep in mind that you will have WAY more into any project car than you initially budget (don't ask me how I know). But if working on a car is entertainment for you, a project car is sort of a "time payment plan".

Keep after it. Continue with updates on the condition. Folks here will give you some idea of the value when more is known about the condition.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 01:34 PM

I own worse. Just wouldn't wish it on someone that didn't know what they were getting themselves into.

Posted by: Indyheel Aug 18 2019, 02:08 PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. The color, appearance package, and the fact it is near me are what attracted me. Unfortunately, I don't have the time nor the skill to work on this myself. Am I looking at $20k to make this a #2 car?

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 02:16 PM

Short answer - YES even if you can do the work yourself. See my signature block for my build thread. Great looking car on surface but it is a money pit but I knew that going in. That is an important consideration - are you prepared for the worst case?

I just have a masochistic side for repairing broken stuff.

Don't get me wrong . . . we all want you to find a 914. Just find the best one you can afford. There really is no shortage of 914's so there will always be another one if this one isn't THE ONE.

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 18 2019, 02:17 PM

Here are the condition ratings generally used...

http://automotivemileposts.com/rating.html

If you can't or don't do the work yourself, it can easily cost $20k in parts and labor to get to a 4.

To get to a #2 using pros you should count on $50k or more.

If you can do most or all of the labor yourself (including body work and paint) maybe half those numbers with some luck.

The car you are looking at I would grade somewhere between a 5 and 6.

(My opinion...others may vary)

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 02:27 PM

Well done!

Posted by: bbrock Aug 18 2019, 02:44 PM

I agree with pretty much everything already said. This car looks like an excellent candidate for a DIY restoration project IF the owner will let it go for what it is worth, rather than what they THINK it is worth. Heck, if my car looked like that when I started my project, I'd already be driving it by now.

Given that you have neither the time or skills to do the work yourself, this is an easy decision. Walk away.

Posted by: burton73 Aug 18 2019, 04:14 PM

to what my Brothers said.

Do not get this car inless you want to spend huge money getting the body back in shape.

Bob B

Posted by: Tdskip Aug 18 2019, 04:37 PM

But the seller says it is “rust free”. Dear Lord I loath sellers like that.

Welcome, and find a better car.

A virtual PPI here is, as others have said, the single best thing you can do to help end up with a good one.

Don’t be scare to ship a better car.

Keep us posted.

Posted by: thelogo Aug 18 2019, 05:01 PM

Buying a car off the 914 classifed section here would be my first move

And least 99% of those guy will be honest about the car

Posted by: Indyheel Aug 18 2019, 05:31 PM

A big "Thank you!" to all of you for all the great advice. I 'm going to walk away and keep looking.

Posted by: Superhawk996 Aug 18 2019, 05:40 PM

You will find a better one.

Posted by: DickSteinkamp Aug 18 2019, 06:21 PM

I think you can still get a good, driver quality 914 for $15K or so. Definitely a nice car for $20k. Maybe not one that will win shows, but one you could be proud of.

Here are the auction results for 113 on BaT...

https://bringatrailer.com/porsche/914/

BaT seems to be a pretty good barometer for P-car prices.

If you don't enjoy the project part of ownership, and/or don't have the skills to take on a project, buying one that someone has already sunk more into the car than they thought they would is a good idea. Even for those of us who like to wrench, the cheap way out is usually to buy a completed car.

Posted by: Rand Aug 18 2019, 06:28 PM

Yes buy the best you can afford, but you also have to be smart. Saying the first one you see has nothing at all to do with it has nothing to do with finding the best one. It could have been! Just know where to look for the structural damage that cancer hits these with. Has nothing to do with how soon you saw it. It needs to be examined.

Posted by: PanelBilly Aug 19 2019, 09:25 AM

And don’t be afraid to ask for someone to do an inspection on a car that is out of state. Most of us would gladly do this for you

Posted by: rjames Aug 19 2019, 10:54 AM

Keep in mind that these cars are old and require upkeep. If you don't have the time or skill to work on the car (including one in excellent shape), and you don't have extra money to pay a shop to do the work for you, a 914 may not be the car for you.

I would never recommend a 914 to someone unless they wanted the challenge of working on the car themselves or were prepared to (regularly) pay someone else to do so. Lots of shops won't even work on these cars, and the ones that do, often don't know what they're doing and you'll be paying them to learn.

Your experiences may vary, but just something to keep in mind.

Best of luck on your search!

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 19 2019, 11:25 AM

an easy repair. The new tray can be spot welded to the existing stand

Posted by: Rand Aug 20 2019, 07:21 PM

I'm really surprised to hear this from an expert. Not surprised to hear it from someone selling parts. If you have to replace the battery tray, the last thing you want to do is spot weld on a band aid. It means there is WAY more important work to look at below there.

Posted by: mepstein Aug 20 2019, 08:28 PM

When the sill looks like this, it’s usually the tip of the iceberg.
It’s typically called surface rust by a seller and big $$$ repair from a shop.

Hint - it’s always a lot worse under the cosmetic aluminum threshold plate where the water wicks in and sits on the metal and the backside of the door that traps dirt that then holds moisture against the sill.


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Posted by: Rand Aug 20 2019, 08:40 PM

Shh, George could sell you a new sill plate. It will look pretty.

Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 21 2019, 09:28 AM

$20k in fixes, new parts and upgrades will NOT get the job done. If you're married, your wife will hate that car in short order. An AC car is a pita to fix.

Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 21 2019, 12:37 PM

youall this is the kill shot....... battery tray is fine..notice it has stainless side rockers



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Posted by: Rand Aug 21 2019, 01:19 PM

Dr said it's an easy fix and he has the part and you can just tack it on.