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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Spring choice and rear Sway

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 08:49 PM

Is there a point where a stiff(er) [than stock] rear spring negates the need for a rear sway bar? I've got a set of #140 welts that I'd been planning to use with or without a rear sway bar for sporty street car handling and probably some A/X.. but would jumping up to say a #180 spring and no sway bar be a better choice (both seem a bit much?).. or would it be better to use a stock rear sway bar and lighter springs?

Posted by: Larmo63 Sep 10 2019, 09:49 PM

I'm running 225# 2 1/4" springs on Rebel Racing collared HD Bilsteins WITH the stock sway bar in the rear.

My car is a /6 conversion, but I really like the handling. YMMV.

Posted by: Steve Sep 10 2019, 09:55 PM

It’s a preference thing, but I thought weltmeister 180’s were too stiff for the street. However I liked the rebel racing 175’s on my car. Also depends what’s in the front. I ran a 22mm sway bar up front with 21mm torsion bars and 140lb rear springs and sway bar for years. Very happy with the setup. Some guys prefer stock torsion bars up front with 140’s in the rear. These cars are fun to experiment with. Pick a setup and then autocross it to see what you like. It is easy to pop off a rear sway bar drop link between runs. Big crescent wrench to put it back on.

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 10 2019, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(Steve @ Sep 10 2019, 10:55 PM) *

.., but I thought weltmeister 180’s were too stiff for the street.


See, I'm not sure on that.. but then Larmo's using #225 and it's a street car.

QUOTE(Steve @ Sep 10 2019, 10:55 PM) *

.. Also depends what’s in the front.


Stock torsion bars, 19mm front sway bar and #140 rear springs at the moment. I think I'll install the rear brackets while I'm welding in other things.. but just wait on sourcing a bar for a while.

Posted by: ndfrigi Sep 10 2019, 10:37 PM

QUOTE(Literati914 @ Sep 10 2019, 09:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Steve @ Sep 10 2019, 10:55 PM) *

.., but I thought weltmeister 180’s were too stiff for the street.


See, I'm not sure on that.. but then Larmo's using #225 and it's a street car.

QUOTE(Steve @ Sep 10 2019, 10:55 PM) *

.. Also depends what’s in the front.


Stock torsion bars, 19mm front sway bar and #140 rear springs at the moment. I think I'll install the rear brackets while I'm welding in other things.. but just wait on sourcing a bar for a while.



https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/pts/d/glendale-porsche-914-rear-sway-bar/6975691075.html

Posted by: Steve Sep 11 2019, 06:17 AM

Best practice for stock front is 140 rear. Rear sway bar is a preference. Some people don’t like rear sway bars because it causes the front tire to lift on hard corners. Easy to remove a drop link at tight auto crosses.

Posted by: ChrisFoley Sep 11 2019, 07:25 AM

QUOTE(Steve @ Sep 11 2019, 07:17 AM) *

Some people don’t like rear sway bars because it causes the front tire to lift on hard corners.

A rear bar never causes the front inside corner to lift up. A very stiff front bar will do that though.
The problem with a rear anti sway bar is that it causes the inside rear tire to lose grip on corner exit, with a corresponding lack of acceleration when it's needed most.

Posted by: jcd914 Sep 11 2019, 03:21 PM

My old auto-x 914

Front: 22mm front T-bars and 19mm front sway bar.

Rear: 160 lbs/inch progressive rear springs,cut to shorten them for the ride height.
Probably 170 lbs/inch spring rate but I never measure the rate.
I never ran a rear sway bar.

Current 914 will have all stock T-bars & springs and stock front & rear sway bars when it gets on the road. After I have it on the road I will look at what I might want to do to the suspension.

Jim

Posted by: yeahmag Sep 11 2019, 04:15 PM

I'm at 300lbs in the rear and am likely going to 400lbs.

Current setup:
Raised spindles
Rebel Racing Front and Rear (teflon) bushings
COM14 spherical bearing (replacement for camber plates)
21 mm torsion bars
21 mm front sway bar
300lb rear springs

Posted by: Literati914 Sep 11 2019, 07:09 PM

QUOTE(yeahmag @ Sep 11 2019, 05:15 PM) *

I'm at 300lbs in the rear and am likely going to 400lbs.

..
21 mm torsion bars



That can't be mostly a street car though, right? Also - what size are stock torsion bars?

Posted by: ConeDodger Sep 11 2019, 10:43 PM

Mine is a 3.2 six conversion. I have 200# rear coil overs with stock front 4 cylinder torsion bars. All the bushings are Elephant which makes the car feel stockish on the road. I do use a stock rear sway bar and a Taret front bar. I like the front soft so I can tune with the Taret bar. If you have a four cylinder, your 140# Welts should be fine.
As you can see, at full song she handles perfectly flat.


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Posted by: yeahmag Sep 12 2019, 02:05 PM

It's mostly an autocross car running on Hoosier A7's. Less tire would lessen the need for spring. But...

At least with my car, it had the tendency to snap oversteer. Video and testing showed that bringing up the rears spring rate greatly reduced that tendency. This may be attributed to tire choice and grip levels, but if you have that problem now, it may be worth trying a higher spring rate than what the average 914'er runs.


Posted by: Literati914 Sep 12 2019, 09:30 PM

Ok thanks for the comments guys.. So it does sound like a stiffer spring might work to 'take the place of' a rear bar, so to speak. Ok, maybe not, but the jist is that basically everyone agrees on a front bar but opinions differ on the rear. So that'll allow me to just weld in the brackets for the time being - save the money on something else the restoration will need. And I can revisit the rear bar thing later.

I'd mentioned #140 springs but actually I'll have 200,245 and 260 coil-over springs to choose from instead. So, I guess I'll try the #200 first. The rates do not change between the regular springs (ID) and Coil-overs or anything, right? Just wondering 'cause I never hear of anyone w/ coil-overs running anything less than like #180 or so.


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