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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Fluid on the floor: What could it be?

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 6 2019, 09:11 AM


After returning from Okteenerfest the car sat a couple weeks, and after taking it to Cars and coffee I parked it again but backed in and a few days later pulled out and noticed 2 small puddles , front at rear- cleaned it up them parked the car , then a few days later checked again and it’s for sure under front.
I was initially worried that I had a front crank seal when I thought it was from the back, and I am releaved that it’s not from the motor,
I did all that last year and am proud to say it’s been a leak free motor since then, and I didn’t want to pull the motor or trans.
BUT this is brake fluid, and I can’t really explain why this would suddenly spring
A leak confused24.gif . I replaced all brake lines and the 19mm master cylinder about 3-4 years ago, no leaks no issues since then.
And I don’t have loss of pressure on brakes so I am assuming it’s the supply line so I guess I will be pulling the belly pan to investigate. Will post more info when I get a look just wonder why just now? I know the washer is there under the supply line connection, just weird this started now???


Phil

Posted by: bbrock Oct 6 2019, 09:43 AM

What MC did you install? There were a small number in the first batch of MCs from 914Rubber that had a problem with the welch plug on top leaking. That area isn't under pressure but can slowly weep fluid. They test for it now so newer ones should be fine. I repressed the welch plug on mine and then filled the recess on top with JB Weld just for extra measure. Car has been sitting for months with no drips.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 6 2019, 09:49 AM

QUOTE(bbrock @ Oct 6 2019, 11:43 AM) *

What MC did you install? There were a small number in the first batch of MCs from 914Rubber that had a problem with the welch plug on top leaking. That area isn't under pressure but can slowly weep fluid. They test for it now so newer ones should be fine. I repressed the welch plug on mine and then filled the recess on top with JB Weld just for extra measure. Car has been sitting for months with no drips.


It’s a 19mm 911 mc I bought from PMB when I got all my new hard lines and soft lines as well, same time that I did the 5-lug conversion- i did have an issue during install getting the supply line seated but once it popped into place it had been dry- I did not put in new supply line so maybe that the issue now? I home it’s not complicated it was a lot of brake fluid and the reservoir is pretty low.

Btw I’m not sure but what should I be putting in, just DOT3?? This is clean no blue tinting to it

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 6 2019, 09:50 AM

Is there any fluid inside on the floorboard?

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 6 2019, 09:53 AM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 6 2019, 11:50 AM) *

Is there any fluid inside on the floorboard?

Not that I could see , but will pull the carpet later and make sure, will jack it up and pull the belly pan today as well.

Posted by: 76-914 Oct 6 2019, 10:00 AM

Just see if it is on the floorboard. If so, a cup seal on the MC is torn and the MC is toast.

Posted by: rjames Oct 6 2019, 04:26 PM

Someone else can correct me if I’ve got this wrong, ...

If you’re not sure if you are currently running dot3 or dot4, you can safely use dot4.
Use Dot5 only if that’s what you have in it now.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 07:41 AM

So last night pulled carpet and took a look under he pedal board and no fluid under the
Pedals and m.c. inside, so next is tonight I will try and get car jacked up and pull the cover to steering and m.c. . Btw brake pedal is firm with no loss of pressure so I am expecting to see a leak at the supply line - More fluid on the floor after it’s just sitting for a few days so it’s just leaking out from gravity.


Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 8 2019, 08:02 AM

@http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showuser=11106 ' post='2753114
So last night pulled carpet and took a look under he pedal board and no fluid under the
Pedals and m.c. inside, so next is tonight I will try and get car jacked up and pull the cover to steering and m.c. . Btw brake pedal is firm with no loss of pressure so I am expecting to see a leak at the supply line - More fluid on the floor after it’s just sitting for a few days so it’s just leaking out from gravity.
[/quote]

You may need a mirror and flashlight to inspect the top of the master. My bet is a leak around the input lines.
A cheap cell phone endoscope is helpful to see into remote areas.
Bruce

Posted by: mepstein Oct 8 2019, 08:06 AM

Phillip - did you install the metal washers under the rubber grommets at the supply lines.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 8 2019, 10:06 AM) *

Phillip - did you install the metal washers under the rubber grommets at the supply lines.


Back when I installed this I initially forgot- had the leak, then installed the washer and had no leak for the next 3-4 years until getting back from Okteenerfest- have you ever seen a supply line pop back out later?

Posted by: rjames Oct 8 2019, 10:50 AM

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:09 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 8 2019, 10:06 AM) *

Phillip - did you install the metal washers under the rubber grommets at the supply lines.


Back when I installed this I initially forgot- had the leak, then installed the washer and had no leak for the next 3-4 years until getting back from Okteenerfest- have you ever seen a supply line pop back out later?


Make sure the lines going in to the MC are fairly straight with no or little angular pressure. The rubber MC grommets allow for the lines to come in at a bit of an angle (very slight), but too much could cause it to leak. You should be able to wipe everything down and then find where it’s leaking from given how big your leak is.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 07:06 PM

QUOTE(76-914 @ Oct 6 2019, 11:50 AM) *

Is there any fluid inside on the floorboard?

After closer investigation and looking outside at the supply lines tonight, seeing no leak from the master cylinder at the supply or the outgoing lines, I went back in to look closer, and yes there is fluid under the pedals cluster inside.... headbang.gif




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Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 07:22 PM

Outside under MC and on top are dry, just wet at wall where Mc goes thru but really wet under at the low spot here pedal cluster bolts down to floor


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Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 07:24 PM

QUOTE(rjames @ Oct 8 2019, 12:50 PM) *

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:09 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 8 2019, 10:06 AM) *

Phillip - did you install the metal washers under the rubber grommets at the supply lines.


Back when I installed this I initially forgot- had the leak, then installed the washer and had no leak for the next 3-4 years until getting back from Okteenerfest- have you ever seen a supply line pop back out later?


Make sure the lines going in to the MC are fairly straight with no or little angular pressure. The rubber MC grommets allow for the lines to come in at a bit of an angle (very slight), but too much could cause it to leak. You should be able to wipe everything down and then find where it’s leaking from given how big your leak is.


Well lines coming down are dry , lined up fine- BUT Mc will be replaced before car is driven again it looks like but this MC was new less than 5 years ago- hey Eric Shea, is the still under warranty?


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Posted by: mepstein Oct 8 2019, 07:30 PM

I'm certainly no expert but it sounds like it went bad. That's what kills the pedal cluster. Brake fluid on the oem plastic bushings.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 8 2019, 08:49 PM

Has anyone installed one of the MC from 914rubber?? $145 is about half of a new 19mm ATE,

Posted by: Mikey914 Oct 8 2019, 09:08 PM

I few have Ian made a video. Spend the extra couple of bucks and do the easy install, may save a few swear words.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6ZHK5f_9bE


https://900designs-container.zoeysite.com/19-mm-master-cylinder-2-1




Or save a few bucks and install the URO one. shades.gif

Posted by: mepstein Oct 8 2019, 09:23 PM

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 8 2019, 10:49 PM) *

Has anyone installed one of the MC from 914rubber?? $145 is about half of a new 19mm ATE,

I gave Ben/MB911 one of the two I purchased. I think he was waiting on a couple banjo fittings to connect it all up.

Posted by: bdstone914 Oct 8 2019, 09:46 PM

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 8 2019, 06:24 PM) *

QUOTE(rjames @ Oct 8 2019, 12:50 PM) *

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 8 2019, 08:09 AM) *

QUOTE(mepstein @ Oct 8 2019, 10:06 AM) *

Phillip - did you install the metal washers under the rubber grommets at the supply lines.


Back when I installed this I initially forgot- had the leak, then installed the washer and had no leak for the next 3-4 years until getting back from Okteenerfest- have you ever seen a supply line pop back out later?


Make sure the lines going in to the MC are fairly straight with no or little angular pressure. The rubber MC grommets allow for the lines to come in at a bit of an angle (very slight), but too much could cause it to leak. You should be able to wipe everything down and then find where it’s leaking from given how big your leak is.


Well lines coming down are dry , lined up fine- BUT Mc will be replaced before car is driven again it looks like but this MC was new less than 5 years ago- hey Eric Shea, is the still under warranty?



It might just be the grommets which can be replaced. I would have a new master and a pair of grommets ready.

Posted by: Mikey914 Oct 8 2019, 10:38 PM

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 9 2019, 07:11 AM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.




thanks for the info, I took a look at the video on the install, and I do think I like the idea of getting rid of having just a grommet. sucks that I have a MC that was installed less than 5 years ago and here its leaking this bad. That seal should not have failed this soon. I have 4 vehicles that are 13-15 years old that have not had to have a master cylinder replaced. in fact the last one on the 914 was replaced it was 20 years old and had been sitting, but this should not have failed so soon.

will be placing my order for the new MC today - already did all the hard and soft lines when I did my suspension and that MC , all else look good. but I have to do a lot of clean up to get the fluid out, I probably should pull my pedal assembly- it was rebuilt back 5 years ago, but should I get one with new brass bushings etc? -

Phil

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 9 2019, 08:02 AM

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.


mark,

placing order and wondering if the Okteenerfest 914 discount code is still viable and if so can you PM me with details.

Phil

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Oct 9 2019, 08:31 AM

yes master cylinder has failed. As much trouble as they are to replace I would purchase a new fte or ate cylinder and install after cleaning up the pedal cluster area of brake fluid and resultant debris and bleed thoroughly with ate brake fluid. The 19mm master cylinder is not that expensive can be bought for 220 at any of the usual suppliers, and is well worth it. 914 17mm has been discontinued

Posted by: DRPHIL914 Oct 9 2019, 09:26 AM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Oct 9 2019, 10:31 AM) *

yes master cylinder has failed. As much trouble as they are to replace I would purchase a new fte or ate cylinder and install after cleaning up the pedal cluster area of brake fluid and resultant debris and bleed thoroughly with ate brake fluid. The 19mm master cylinder is not that expensive can be bought for 220 at any of the usual suppliers, and is well worth it. 914 17mm has been discontinued


I agree doc, need to get that brake fluid cleaned off the floor and the pedal cluster- in just a week or 2 the fluid that leaked thru the floor had already melted away the paint and primer on the floor pan , so lots of clean up . ATe fluid do you mean the dot3/4 stuff synthetic? will have to flush the whole system out anyway I figured. .

Posted by: Mikey914 Oct 10 2019, 03:27 PM

QUOTE(DRPHIL914 @ Oct 9 2019, 07:02 AM) *

QUOTE(Mikey914 @ Oct 9 2019, 12:38 AM) *

No fluid on the bottom of the cylinder is indicative of a leak internal to the unit. There is some bleed through on the edges, but my money is the pedal cluster. which hopefully hasn't been soaking in brake fluid. I'm sure Bruce can attest to the damage of brake fluid on the many pedal clusters he has seen.


mark,

placing order and wondering if the Okteenerfest 914 discount code is still viable and if so can you PM me with details.

Phil

Yep good to the end of the month. Just PM me if you have any issues using it.
Mark

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